Ink Sans: A Neurodivergent Retrospective

[@Cooling_Rosa]

I talk so slow in this video so if you put on 1.25 speed will likely be easier to listen to…LMAO

[@GracieEnos]

I'm so glad you did this! I hate how everyone gives ink so little personality and doesn't pay attention to anything but his vials, when he's really a super complex character

[@KennieKennie70]

Ink is like the utmv fandom mascot

[@isa_3874]

Before I found out I was autistic, I already had some kind of special connection with Ink that I couldn't explain. No one could make me hate this boi, even after Underverse 😭💚

[@SkylerFordwatts]

Agreed. Even in Underverse I saw the good in him in Underverse cuz I know what it's like

[@orianefaton1885]

I like to think part of the reason Ink seem to like Underfell (we were told that UF!Sans was his "little mew mew", so he seems to have a particular fondness of him...) may be because Fell AUs are like THE AUs where Flowey is a kind monster "despite" being soulless, so even if Ink said to them "Oh, by the way, I am soulless" they will be a bit surprised, sure, because this is very rare... but they won't discriminate more than that because their other soulless being is a very kind person. So he feels more confortable in the Fell AUs, ironically than in most others. (make it funny that the literral edgy AU is more accepting overall too, in this regard)

[@melissaquinn1463]

Funny note, even though it wasn’t mentioned in the video: when I read through FTFO for the first time, I saw Ink as normal, I understood his POV very well, it wasn’t until listening to Rosa’s streams reading the story again that I realized Ink was autistic-coded, I then I sat back and thought: “Oh. *Oh.* I really should get on getting that assessment, huh?”

[@m0rdanttart]

A very fun video! Ink is really complex just by his narrative and is one of a kind. As a character that represents the whole fandom, I believe anyone can see themselves in him and project their own issues and struggles (mainly as artists). As a neurodivergent person I can see all the autism and adhd super points he has. One thing that bothers me tho is the aroace erasure in the fandom and I'm always tweaking whenever someone claims him as allosexual and/or alloromantic. I don't mind the shipping, Myebi (Comyet) herself did say it's ok and fun, but even aroace people can be in relationships and it's just upsetting to see how noone cares about the aroace experience. Anyway, I really enjoy these type of videos, so def keep going and enjoy yourself!

[@lawnmower-pq8vk]

OMG SAME!!! I’m aroacespec and it’s always made me really mad that so many people think we just can’t ever be in relationships… I’m in one right now and Ink could be too!! You don’t have to erase his aroaceness for ships smh if anything it gives you an excuse to learn more about our spectrum and how many of us experience various kinds of love!!

[@melissaquinn1463]

As an aroace person writing stories both fanfic and original, I’ve had a minor fascination with relationships and how we/the media see them, the signs we take as romantic or platonic, and the complexities that fit in neither. A good example coming from my own AU is the pairing of Clover(UTY) and Dahlia(OC). Dolly was the one to help Clover research the myths on monsters and the missing people of Ebott, was the one to bail the cowboy out if he got in over his head, played in fantasy games, and comforted him when times got rough. In turn, Clover comforted Dahlia and let her rant about her foster homes, pushed her to try things out of her comfort zone, fed her curiosity of history, and was a general safe space-that one thing that never changed in a time that was always changing. Despite Dolly’s status as aroace, they both deeply loved the other, but funnily enough, never said it before Clover’s journey. In a story I’m writing to celebrate UTY’s anniversary(yes I’m late), Dahlia wonders if the reason Clover never said anything despite clearly-upon-hindsight being in a queerplatonic relationship was because of the quest he didn’t want to budge on, like if he admitted to his feelings that he’d realize something had become more important than it. I just love these two a lot, for all the joy and pain they’ve given me. But that didn’t stop my fear when I admitted that connection in the end notes section of my first release, I’ve seen so much discourse on things that aren’t just platonic or just romantic; on having characters who aren’t ready for a relationship in a love triangle getting the guy/girl just because it’s gay(worry taken from a magical girl story I’m toying with). I’m trying very hard to not play by the internet’s rules, put the story first, but death of the author is terrifying, and the internet is crazy. (Sorry I ranted, I’ll see myself out)

[@thewitchykitty5789]

I think the depression angle for being soul-less is pretty spot on and in undertale itself I’m pretty sure is kind of intended. Like look at Flowey. He’s supposedly emotionless because of the fact he doesn’t have a soul, but he clearly does feel things. We see him feel fear, confusion, conflicting, regret, sadness, all kinds of stuff as a flower. So then why doesn’t he feel joy? Why does he feel empty? Because he’s depressed. And I’d argue I’m not looking too far into things here I think this was intentional. Like think about it. When he came to as a flower he’d just been murdered in a horrible way for a reason he thought was good but failed losing his own life his sibling and everything he cared about in the process. He just went thought something terribly traumatic, so when he goes back to his parents and tries to live his life again obviously he doesn’t feel anything he’s in shock. I think he assumes it has to be his soulless nature because he doesn’t know how else to explain it. I mean he literally finds out he can reload and reset because he literally unalived himself obvi he was going through it. And then he isolated and detached himself from everyone else as a means of coping. This isn’t even just me like this is all how he’s characterized in the game. Flowey is not pure evil incarnate he is a hurt traumatized child who was unable to get help and is a pretty good representation of what can happen when you have mental issues like this and how you can spiral when they are unaddressed and untreated. So all this in mind I feel like Ink being in a similar position is very likely and really like the viles as medication interpretation personally.

[@Miracle_Wizard]

I am also sick and went into a coughing fit when I saw this because I got so excited

[@l0wkey_0sii25]

Kicking my feet back n forth as I watch

[@helenfotopoulou5125]

Before watching the video, there was a big drama a couple of years ago because a poster on Tumblr accused Jakei of "demonizing autistic people" through her depiction of Ink. Anyway, a lot happened but Jakei went on record saying that Ink was never meant to be an allegory to any kind of mental disease and there's no point in trying to assign anything to a character who literally doesn't have a soul. The more popular interpretation on tumblr is that he has Antisocial Personality Disorder, but again that's rarely talked about. EDIT: OK I rechecked the posts at the time. The APD interpretation came from TV Tropes, not tumblr.

[@lawnmower-pq8vk]

Also I don’t think Ink is meant to be irredeemably bad or anything. He was in a very stressful situation and did something bad because of it, and tried to run from his problems because he didn’t want to take responsibility. Eventually he accepted he was wrong and now he is trying to fix his mistakes. As an autistic person myself I don’t think this is demonizing!! Also I feel his motivations come from more than just his audhd traits (like his fear of being alone/forgotten and past trauma for example) personally

[@helenfotopoulou5125]

​@@lawnmower-pq8vk No, I don't think he's meant to be an irredeemable villain either. Most of the characters in Underverse are a mixed bag.

[@lawnmower-pq8vk]

@@helenfotopoulou5125 Yeah. I’ve noticed fans on certain sites like Twitter tend to be worse and recognizing nuances like that though which is probably why people assumed Ink does bad thing = Ink is the devil was the intention of UnderVerse (and also why some people just believe that)

[@franklyn8775]

@@lawnmower-pq8vk I'm pretty sure jakei didn't said that LOL. As you said, that claim came from TV tropes. Also, i don't think she can claim such things about another person's character LMAO (i mean, jakei didn't created nor developded Ink)

[@helenfotopoulou5125]

​@@franklyn8775OK so I tried to post a response that had a bunch of tumblr links in it, but apparently KZbin removed it entirely. Short of it, yes I KNOW Jakei never claimed the APD thing, that was a HYPOTHESIS on TV Tropes. Myebi stated that Underverse Ink isn't canon to their story but they don't mind his portrayal. This was from a 2020 post. And the links I wanted to post were of both of Jakei's statements as well as an analysis of the APD thing.

[@nusratkader1343]

Idk but i just love how rosa sees a character and explains it. I love her thinking style. It very unique for me as someone whos dumb . It helps a lot as someone who left the fandom and then joined again suddenly it is every helpful. I always saw ppl made ink as a rude , souless being and i knows he's a jerk but i always hated it. Hes one my favorites forever. Thank you so much for this video . Also i love ur new art style ❤.

[@Cooling_Rosa]

@@nusratkader1343 hello! I’m so glad I’m able to explain things easier! I sometimes have a hard time wording things or understanding long winded explanations, so I tend to try to create my videos for those who may struggle with the same thing. Also, these sprites were made by my friend Quinncosmo! They are incredibly talented. I highly suggest following them on tumblr or tiktok.

[@nusratkader1343]

@Cooling_Rosa ah yes the art is very pretty. I will probably follow them on Tumblr. Again thank you for ur hard work Rosa we love you ^^

[@Gltchy_3rr0r]

Thank you for making this video because I actually never thought about any of this and I’m just happy that someone is actually going more in-depth into Inks character both fanon and canon wise. (Also love the video :3❤)

[@shatteredprism]

As someone who's autistic with adhd/audhd with a special interest/hyperfixation on Undertale, I love this video.

[@idkanymore488]

Its great to see people actually talk about how complex ink is as a character all the complex stuff usually goes under the radar so im so happy that someone is actually talking about it love the video rosa

[@sunmutsis69420]

THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO OMG THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN THINKING

[@Raven64292]

This made me think of for the forgotten ones,

[@Raven64292]

I miss for the forgotten ones

[@lawnmower-pq8vk]

I really liked the more recent underverse episodes because of how he changed. It appalls me that some people think he is pure evil in underverse because he so obviously is not, and even though I can’t say his actions were right I can understand why he did them and I don’t think they make him a bad person. People do bad things and good things and sometimes our reasonings are selfish, just like Ink’s were. But of course I wouldn’t expect TikTok or Twitter to understand the complexities of morality because those sites have the most black and white thinking I’ve literally ever seen in my life. My poor baby boy Ink they could never make me hate u

[@MarzTheRealStarWalker]

as someone with chronic severe major depressive disorder, i become bedridden, disabled, rotting in places...not being able to do anything, not even having energy to speak, type, move, anything, wound up in a mental hospital and everything is so numb,

[@datonegod3496]

No wonder I relate to Ink so much.

[@ghost_a327]

real

[@HQtheOctoling]

Guys, Ink is my highest kin. What does that say about me?

[@franklyn8775]

The only section that i kinda disagree is the one where you said that ''nobody talks about ink being autistic''. In my view at least, this interpretation is indeed fairly talked about and discussed between fandom spaces, mainly on tumblr tho. Even Cross's canon voice actor (yes, the tehrogue guy) made a video where he agreeded with the autistic/adhd ink headcanon.

[@Cooling_Rosa]

@@franklyn8775 I’ve mainly been in the tiktok and KZbin spaces- and I don’t interact with Tehrogue due to him making me uncomfortable. So I will admit that section was biased since on tiktok, you have to search for the group to find those hcs. I only really use tumblr to answer asks so I haven’t immersed myself in discourse as much Also- I was kinda basing it off of observations throughout the fandom in general- bc for many years, Ink was only seen with adhd bc of the babying autistic individuals faces in 2016-2018 so that’s also my bad for not clarifying

[@franklyn8775]

​@@Cooling_Rosa Oh, i understand. Speaking on this, there was even a utmv tumblr general discussion about Ink being demonized due to autistic traits that happened in june of this year lol. Anyways, things have been changing now and this particular headcanon has been gaining a lot of recognition lately. Specially in 2022, because of the whole ''Ink has a canon hyperfixation on fell sans" stuff, which just convinced people about the fine possibility of him being canonically neurodivergent-coded! But in general, Ink is often seen as havind AuDHD (both) which...makes sense to me!

[@peppermintally4409]

You misunderstood Flowey whole deal. He is emotionless not because he's a metaphor for mental illness, but because he's a player insert. He "played the game" so many times that he's completely emotionally detached from it, thus doesn't feel anything. It has nothing to do with him being soulless.

[@NatanUnderline]

It's both actually

[@NatanUnderline]

He said he couldn't feel before he thought of life as a game

[@peppermintally4409]

@@NatanUnderline I've always interpreted him being soulless on a thematic level as a metaphor for his detachment. Like, yeah, maybe in the text itself his lack of emotions does come from the fact that he doesn't have a soul, but on a thematic level it serves a different purpose. I don't see enough grounds for interpretation of it being some sort of metaphor for mental illness.

[@guardianeatos]

He's not emotionless. On the contrary he's very expressive. He gets sadistic glee, can be genuinely scared or confused and is very irascible. He is emotionnally detached like a player is despite being in Undertale world. Anyone will get crazy with trauma from his condition and the accident on top of a power like that. So no he's not just like that because he's a "player insert". It got a in lore reason. it doesn't become like that out of nowhere or through sheer determination effect. According to the library book, monsters souls are made by love, hope and compassion so "his whole deal" has everything to with him being soulless. Flowey is wildy different from Ink because he has determination that it is the will to live despite having no real purpose nor endless content unlike the latter. We are outside of the game while he isn't so how he feels can really be interpreted as a mental disorder or illness. Don't forget that he actually tried to be a good person before acting like a player would. He just has no empathy because he's not a monster anymore. Plus he is genuinely trying to be a good person in Pacifist Route. Humans can be good people if they want like Frisk was in True Pacifist but Frisk isn't emotionless or anything. In Undertale universe, humans can live without the components of a monster soul which is very similar to Flowey condition as a soulless being

[@SkylerFordwatts]

I feel like some of this relates to me... I was diagnosed with both autism and adhd. So. Things have been rough.. I'm still not sure if ive been depressed to. To be honest i felt like i was being more selfish and rude..

[@SkylerFordwatts]

I try not to.

[@AmbrosiaMooshine]

Yo this is an amazing video, I loved it :)

[@SkylerFordwatts]

Hes so me sometimes

[@SkylerFordwatts]

I feel like Im a mix of both Papyrus and ink sometimes

[@Mayo_Nayoo]

thank you for this very well done video!

[@AmissPlayer]

I don’t think black and white thinking is something to tie in with autism, people are complex and that includes autistic people. Rather autistic people when they make a decision have a strong conviction to it and it would require evidence and effort to change that. So in short Pap doesn’t have black and white thinking but a strong conviction in people changing for the better and if he had survived the knife in genocide; would have to revaluate his belief in people changing for the better. Am autistic, I can confirm this phrase to me hints at someone still wanting to simplify a group of people. You can’t humans aren’t born in boxes.

[@AmissPlayer]

It also devalues an autistic persons voice in important conversations because the “black and white” thinking is used to undermine their choice as if they don’t spend time thinking on it like anyone should. Especially with something as complex as redemption for a killer, It’s human and grey. Not at at all black in white. Anyway, I love Ink being Autistic. He felt incredibly humanized compared to his fandom concept.

[@Theoriginalautismer7790]

As a tismer, thanks for this video Used to have a hyperfixation on this game but now its on my shelf of less thought about stuff in my brain

[@Lumino20]

Is it wrong that i relate to ink, papyrus and flowey so much? Especially ink?

[@KennieKennie70]

Oh hell yeah

[@lawnmower-pq8vk]

Every Sans is audhd because I said so /j/silly Great video :]

[@PACHINKO-j2r]

My left ear loved this one 💥💥💥

[@StoryTeller796]

=)

[@pixiefeathershow]

Don't talk about Ink's accidental neurodivergent connections unless mentioned because he is just comes out as obvious in that department to me. (as a neurodivergent person myself)

[@Cooling_Rosa]

@@pixiefeathershow hi! The reason why I made it known that it was accidental and coded rather than canon is bc Comyet themselves says that Ink is not neurodivergent canonically and wasn’t written with it in mind. So, it’s more of what you could view Ink like rather than what he for sure is.

[@franklyn8775]

​@@Cooling_RosaCorrect me if i'm wrong but comyet never said that i'm pretty sure?? The only time she has said something like that was when somome asked if he has ADHD and she responded with ''i don't have enough knowledge about the disorder to confirm anything, but i can see where this comes from and it's very interesting!". Also, that post is deleted so there isn't anymore mentions lol😅 To my knowledge, i just think Comyet is choosing to not speak/confirm anything as a way of letting it for interpretation, something she does VERY often

[@Cooling_Rosa]

@@franklyn8775 Never said it directly- but also sidesteps a lot of mentions of it. She does the same with the “chronic depression” theory but was a lot more outright with the fact that Ink is based on her own personality and life experience so she didn’t go into writing Ink with anything in mind for intentionally coding. Like Cross was written purposely to be trans coded, while Ink was not written with any kind of mental health or neurodivergence in mind. So I wanted to make it clear that this was based on traits and personal perspective rather than canon

[@franklyn8775]

@@Cooling_Rosa Nah, i'm going to disagree with you with this one. (with all due respect) Wouldn't claim this because she, again, has not confirmed anything about this !!specific!! part of his character. That post asked if he has chronic depression due to his backstory,, i reallllyyyy don't think that response could apply here lmao, since these are completly different topics with different standpoints and differnt arguments. (honestly, it's better to simply say that it has never been confirmed, because that what it simply is) I don't think she sidesteps with it also, that's just something she does with a lot of things about his character (the whole ''leave to interpretation'' thingy his character has going on), and she didn't denied it in the only post where she explicity said about this specific topic (only that she wasn't very knowledgeable enough about ADHD to confirm anything since confiming that your character has a neurodevelopmental disability is a VERY big thing, wich is also completly different from flat out deniying it). if anything, the post is actually positve towards it with the ''i can see where it comes from and it's very interesting!'') Now, with the ''cross was written to be trans coded''. Jakei only confirmed that now, no one would've guessed any canonization towards this specific topic due to a lack of canon creator confirmation, it's the same thing with this topic and Comyet. Perhaps it has a possibility of being canon, but again, we dont know that lol. I don't really think it's good to make assumptions over simply nothing (for example, 2019 me would've never guessed that Ink canonically uses he/they but you know, that was confimed in 2021)

[@Cooling_Rosa]

@@franklyn8775 I definitely worded myself badly by claiming she outright said it. I like to be safe than sorry with my info and from what Comyet has said about the ADHD- saying it’s interesting but not making any mention of intentional work on that part, I don’t want to and didn’t want to say he’s canonically implied or coded to be any disorder- I didn’t mean to imply she was against it or it couldn’t be possible, but from how she’s spoken about Ink and his traits, it doesn’t seem very likely that it was intentional so I don’t want to label that it was, especially since she seemed slightly uncomfortable in the ask about the chronic depression. After seeing that ask and her confirming it wasn’t what she was going for, I definitely don’t want to force any assumptions on what her motive behind the character was, and rather stick to saying this is all Hypothetical and not based on her implying something or saying something outright, which is why I said that, but that was definitely bad wording on my part. Sorry, I couldn’t quite understand for a second what the argument was about due to my dyslexia but I had a friend read aloud so I could understand