Inner Ring Suburbs - Cabrillo | Cities Skylines #16

[@archontiverius]

Cities don't live in a vacuum and are ever evolving built ecosystems. To talk about city planning without talking about change, those who benefited and those that suffered is naïve to the extreme.

[@hunterhurley5245]

Love the discussion of the impact of public policy on cities. Definitely not something to shy away from, and info that most people don't know about.

[@kaylem2814]

I like the way you tie racism and ´´hard’’ topics with neighbors and architecture because as a poc its hard to divide the two and not talk abt those topics. I wish other creators were like you.

[@vladimirgunnar7015]

I like the topics you discuss. A lot of people are afraid of talking about things like this in cities skylines videos.

[@Hubbubb22-citiesskylines]

Not just afraid... wilfully ignorant.

[@ApollonDriver]

In my opinion, I would be happier if these topics weren't in the video because I'm already aware of all those problems and am already overwhelmed by them. These videos are my escape but then I suddenly come across those problems here too, if you know what I mean. So maybe people aren't afraid or ignorant, but actually just don't want to bother their viewers.

[@banksrail]

@@ApollonDriver great point and I respect your opinion. But, you can’t expect everyone to be as informed about this as you are. The more these historical problems are discussed, the less likely we are to repeat them.

[@XError40404]

Some people just want to play a game and build a city as a way to escape such difficult topics for a while, and that's fine. Just as long as they're not completely ignorant of such problems. That being said, I do enjoy the way Pres talks about such topics.

[@vladimirgunnar7015]

@@ApollonDriver You can play the game yourself. He has no good reason to give you a break from those topics. Make vides yourself.

[@Diana-le7oh]

This is my favorite CS KZbin series because you talk about so many important issues cities face like gentrification and segregation and affordability. It's really great to hear. And I can't help but always see how reminiscent of Oakland and Berkeley this city is and it makes me so happy. Buchanan reminds me a lot of what you took from inspiration, north Oakland, and you did a good job capturing that. I lived in that area for a couple years and it looks so much like it.

[@dukeofbrew248]

To prevent displacement - public housing with a short to medium term policy of prioritizing applications from those who have lived in the neighborhood

[@wes528]

Residents should lead the visioning, development, and transition of their neighborhoods. I disagree with folks saying residents will want to live in the same houses that are 30-50 yrs old. All communities want a better quality of life for their children. But "better quality of life" is relative. Most cities impose a certain standard on communities of color, adding a bunch of services and amenities that don't suit the needs of that community. Displacement comes from being aesthetically alienated from your home as well as changing economics.

[@Max-js7zr]

@@wes528 yh things like suddenly increasing property taxes for people on fixed incomes, because of the Increased land value from developing those amenities is a big pressure for displacement as well

[@wes528]

We shouldn't improve or invest in neighborhood without letting the communities leading the process themselves. Participatory development over predatory development! Thank you for speaking on these topics, Pres. It makes the story of Cabrillo way more interesting and realistic when it's rooted in real life historical perspective

[@blujitsu2180]

As always, really appreciate you talking about the actual history of housing and development policy. The people who whine about that clearly haven’t been paying attention from the beginning, because you’ve been saying the city is meant to embody that discussion the entire time. With that said, the builds are still excellent. That huge avenue down the middle of the neighborhood hurts my soul but is incredibly West Coast. At least it carries buses.

[@vajda_vvy]

I've seen plenty of supportive comments, but I will throw mine in regardless. I appreciate that you provide a back story for Cabrillo, which is based on real-life policies & historical events. Your videos are very interesting and, in a way, educational, especially for a European who is not overly familiar with the history of city planning in the US.

[@jimilindley4422]

I enjoyed it. This is the most unique and informative narration of a city builder I've seen.

[@Alli4161]

Culture is reflected in architecture and road design just as much as food, language, music, tv, literature, etc. I think it’s important that we recognize the impact that our history has on the culture of our cities/towns as they are today. I’m from the East Coast so I’m not as familiar with the history of the West Coast, so I appreciate that I get to learn something new in every episode of Cabrillo.

[@pinefern2196]

Cabrillo is expanding so fast looks super cool!

[@313massey]

@pres this is the second time you've touched on redlining, as a POC I thank you for speaking on it and not hiding like our country is doing. I would love to see a skyline creator create neighborhoods like Harlem in New York, Fruitvale in Oakland, Sweet Auburn in Atlanta, Bronzeville in Chicago, Greektown in Detroit, in a cultural light not just a gentrification aftermath but with some culture. And kudos for having a skylines sudo political podcast. You've made a different lane rather you knew it or not.

[@PresCities]

We'll have a cool barrio in Cabrillo soon! Just looking around for some good assets, but I know where it's gonna be and generally what its history is.

[@ethano3715]

the building of a transportation network before any development is very reminiscent of the first development of NYC's subway system. Lines such as the Brighton Line (which was originally a streetcar line and then grade separated and expanded into a 4 track line) and the Flushing-Main St Line were built in Brooklyn and Queens back when those areas were farms, with the knowledge that these areas would grow and flourish into high density bustling neighborhoods

[@tbestig4164]

I’ve mentioned it recently and a lot of other people are saying the same thing but I really appreciate how you’re unafraid of getting into the weeds of controversial political subjects and speaking earnestly on how city planning affects individual human beings

[@shlubbers1778]

That warehouse district might need a construction site or two But great video! The commentary is always really interesting, and you are one of the few who really does it this well.

[@lukaslyngas1805]

I always love how your videos are so educating, it helpes a lot to make it easier to build realistic cities myself.👍👍 I love to see you expanding the city so much as well, seeing it all coming thogether.

[@Tuxedoed]

Wow... Cabrillo is looking SO GOOD! Loved the video, I love the story behind Cabrillo, it really makes the series a journey, not just the city :D

[@ndragonzgaming1]

Cincinnati is a prime example of the things you're talking about. The West end and OTR (Over the Rine) areas in my city were mostly white, Jewish, and German. After WW II the people who live there moved out (Our Projects were government housing for returning soldiers) then they left in the 50s and 60s due to White Flight and the city gov moved Blacks into these areas by the boatload. Now with Projects being replaced by Overpriced townhouses and condos and a Multi-million dollar Soccer stadium. They are moving the poor blacks and whites out of the area, and on top of that MHA (Metropolitan Housing Authority) is buying land in the outer reaches of the city to ship us on out.

[@winwinstears5672]

i love your discussions, keep them up!!! i think cities are essentially formed by people and their movement and activities so it makes so much sense to talk about problems centered on how people utilize space and the reasons for that! it's like telling a story of a real-life city and it's very effective in this series

[@TownScaperVT]

Great stuff as always. You should consider adding an elementary school and sports field as part of the inner ring suburb, this could be an opportunity to mention the Natural Scale of the Neighborhood Unit theory from Clarence A. Perry as having an approximate radius of 1/4 mile with appropriate walkabiliy (i.e. paths that are safe for travel by a child to go to and from the school). Streetcar suburbs developed in the 1920’s and 30’s were heavily influenced by this idea.

[@Sc00terNut]

Been following Cabrillo. I like how you narrate its history, which is typical of many US cities.

[@rechargerambles5942]

It is a little out of the area, but members of buchanan could create a cooperative, like those found in Milton Parc, Montreal.

[@ehmrcooper]

Such a wonderful episode. I’m enriched in the commentary and learning all of these new things and the stories and Cabrillo.

[@kiyahmanigirlsgroup548]

To be totally honest I love watching you videos just because of the information that you give and also I’m from the BayArea

[@StephMcAlea]

I can only speak for myself but I found your historical discussion fascinating. Reminiscent of 'Do Not Eat's videos. Thanks!

[@csch1510]

12:50 historic preservation might be a good idea here Make some buildings or maybe multiple streets historic buildings that must not be removed And leading investment into repurposing buildings before removing or rebuilding them if possible Other than that, more services, and public places like a small park or a small meeting hall where locals can hold events for cultural recreation

[@robthebuilder9908]

speak the word brother

[@Pablo-ow5wm]

hey Pres, thank you for introducing me to the world of urban planning, definitely learning a lot with u! Keep it up with your videos

[@PresCities]

Thank you! 💛

[@DoctorBoffin]

I love that you don’t shy away from why cities are the way they are, and how deeply engrained racism and white supremacy is in their current form. Do you think you’ll ever touch on the devastation caused to the Japanese American communities in California by the internment camps? Also, have you ever heard of Land Value Taxes, and Georgism? It’s an ideology that came out of 1870s San Francisco, and it really relates to a lot of the issues you talk about. It’s really interesting and imo a good solution to many, but not all, space allocation issues.

[@PresCities]

Georgism is an interesting one, but I haven't done the deep dive yet! And that's an interesting idea re: internment camps, I will put that on my list.

[@MrKork1]

Would love to see some art deco style building in this series

[@Tazaman310]

I’m glad you’re speaking on the inequalities, they are a huge part of urbanization, especially here in Los Angeles

[@PresCities]

LA is completely surreal, I can't stop exploring its history

[@jackgrotenstein3402]

You are one of the only creators on this platform who uses their incredible skills and fanbase to educate people on important topics

[@Hubbubb22-citiesskylines]

Really appreciate how you are willing to take on these issues in your builds... white flight and suburbanization in the fifties/sixties, leading to reinvigoration/redevelopment of inner suburbs coupled with gentrification in the 2000s... Moreover, this issue of urban spatial inequality is in nearly every global city ... Paris, Cairo, Mexico City, New York, even smaller cities like Denver. It's an interesting conundrum in the game. We play partly for escapism, but also for realism to an extent. The game algorithms encourage sprawl and gentrification--but I would acknowledge that I don't necessarily play for this kind of realism. I'm not sure what the real world answer is. We need to change the rules of free enterprise in order to level the economic playing field. There are a few cities experimenting with UBI, and you have championed moving away from single-family zoning. But economic equity doesn't necessarily undercut other systemic inequities. In my next build I want to go back to dense superilles with mixed development and ample mass transit. Love your work Pres. This was an awesome episode.

[@rowan6213]

I live in north oakland and I always love emeryvile it has great bike infrastructure

[@MrSinger187]

I love the commentary you provide here. It’s so much more refreshing than that usual “and we place this building here, and this neighborhood here” that most people provide on their videos. As for Buchanan and the Watehouse District, I think the housing situation for the longtime residents will ameliorate very slightly in terms of higher density and slight up zoning, but ultimately price them out of the neighborhood. What I’ve noticed in my own city is that even when people identify as “liberal” or “progressive”, they still tend to hold these old views subconsciously and lean towards NIMBYism on issues that would help the older residents. Sure, they may be more open to higher buildings and more public transit, but at the end of the day the residents of Buchanan will still end up being thrown out of their neighborhood- it may just take 15 or 20 years instead of 5 or 10.

[@mechtechpotato4249]

Happy 4th, and wildfire day to my fellow Californians. Stay safe and avoid dry areas with fireworks.

[@kgv6483]

Thank you. Well done.

[@jammm3333]

Thanks for not being scared to talk race politics. So much of American urban history is shaped by segregation and racism that shouldn't be ignored.

[@fredrikkarner4115]

Preventing displacement caused by the housing market is just going to be solved by eliminating the housing market. Most if not all housing should be in the hands of the state so people can live unworried about their landlords rising rent bc suddenly their block got gentrified or other market fluctuations. You can't really trust the market to organize such a primordial need which is having a roof above your head xd

[@PresCities]

It should be pretty obvious to people by now that housing shouldn't be a speculative asset.

[@gearandalthefirst7027]

Used to live next to one of the biggest malls in the world. It has p much everything you'd need, grocery stores, clothing, entertainment, etc. They built a bunch of apartments right on the edge with direct access to the mall. I don't know if a single one actually has someone living in it, I'm pretty sure the whole thing is owned by overseas investors who can't be bothered to even rent it out.

[@brianwells7641]

As much as Pres hates post WW2 suburbia, I'm excited to see if he will make 1940s - 1960s style suburban neighborhoods since we really haven't seen anything like that in cs yet. It would be interesting to see his take on it. Love the series btw.

[@ladyduckworthduck8434]

More of a question than an idea on how to prevent displacement of people from the neighbourhood. Wouldn't rent control measures theoretically be a good idea to make sure the investments don't lead to overwhealming gentrification and make sure old residents can profit of those new job opportunities brought by transit access?

[@gearandalthefirst7027]

Yes, but have you considered, uhhhhhhhh something something taxes NIMBY

[@ikarosouza9505]

God bless street cars, god damn cars

[@zinedinezethro9157]

The suburbanization was a big moment for cities in America and the racial segregation does impact how cities look now, and why it's like that now. So, it's actually realistic and important to take that into consideration when building cities.

[@robthebuilder9908]

I love it he houses in your asset collection BTW

[@jchiscool]

Good work integrating social issues with urban planning. It has been a big topic that is still controversial but getting its place in higher education. I would like to suggest the topic about segregation w/ transportation planning. Think about BART, why are some lines so extended to white suburbs, but west oakland feels a bit neglected, and trains are typically jammed packed right before they enter SF. It may be the nature of the Bay Area, but it has been a thought of mine for a while. There have been several studies w/ bus lines being poorly designed in minority areas, but nothing comes to mind immediately w/ the Bay Area. Hopefully this is helpful for more video ideas. Keep up the great work!

[@PresCities]

Yeah, BART was planned pretty explicitly to serve white commuters. It's not the best system, and that's not the only reason why. I'll be exploring different patterns (i.e. who gets light rail? is getting light rail good?) etc. in here. In the bay area, AC Transit is pretty good with providing their best, most consistent service to low-income neighborhoods. Not sure about VTA, samtrans, etc. though

[@JacobH-zu1lb]

Displacement for home owners isn't a bad thing. If a poor family living in a neighborhood in which land value was drastically increasing, and that family sold their house and moved to another neighborhood bringing their wealth with them, isn't that a good thing for that family? If that family stayed, their property taxes would increase, but their income may not. Renters on the other hand are clearly not a beneficiary of rising land value because rent will increase, displacing them without the "payout" that homeowners received.

[@PresCities]

Yeah, this is an important point and I'm sure it applies in many cases. Interestingly (at least as far as I understand), rising land values in South LA led to some pretty solid profits for many Black families when they sold to Latino families moving into the area as demographics shifted in previous decades. I'm sure this is true elsewhere too, but yes- the distinction between owners and renters is important!

[@r00dfr00t]

Sup Pres, do you have any plans for a large medical complex within Cabrillo?

[@PresCities]

Yep!

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

Wonder what it looked like in the 1910's.

[@daugh1001]

12:48 I was just at Oakmont Bakery

[@nellyproductions4250]

can we get a high school for this neighborhood?

[@caydenmurray5971]

Bro imagine playing a game like GTA 5 on this map or any other maps made by @Pres.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

This would be a good map for the next Watch Dogs title. It's got similar terrain layout to both the San Francisco Bay Area and Chicago, yet it's different at the same time.

[@connorplaysgames2401]

I’ve seen these in many US cities but never has it been built.

[@zkittlezthabanditt604]

Eventually you should make low income housing and projects/the ghetto in an area, for Portland it would be based off of parts of NE Portland and farther out Rockwood (but for the projects you could use California style low rise)

[@zkittlezthabanditt604]

Rockwood is the ghetto of Gresham, arguably as or more Notorious than NE Portland)

[@jasonfuentz7681]

Portland is shit.

[@zkittlezthabanditt604]

@@jasonfuentz7681 Bro I'm just recommending something, f off

[@goldfishkaden1539]

Pres what do you think about having a very gerrymandered district neighborhood? I am not too sure how you could make that in cities skylines but it’s a thought

[@PresCities]

california's districting is nonpartisan, it wouldn't make much sense

[@goldfishkaden1539]

If they don’t want you to talk about race they can stop watching the video :)

[@erikkrauss8481]

How do you revitalize a neighborhood while preventing gentrification?

[@brandonbollwark5970]

The Buchanan Alliance is a grassroots organization made up of some lower income residents of the neighborhood as well a couple prominent left-wing politicians. They are now pressuring the city to allow subsidized homes in parts of Buchanan and the Warehouse District to ensure that affordable housing is built alongside new development to avoid current residents from getting priced out of the area. So far, the organization finds themselves at odds against land developers and the city government who prefer homes at market rate.

[@nilestratocracy6509]

when discussing racism and how city planning and policy affected minorities, its really important to highlight the success stories of some minorities and their resistance (like with the highway revolt episode), otherwise you fall into the trap of sounding like they were powerless and weak, which is unfair and untrue. Think about Asian minorities for example, who earn more and academically dominate, or more recent African arrivals, who have built vibrant and succesful communities despite the planning and policy attempts to break them. Perhaps a little Korea or Litte Nigeria will show this, or maybe even an Arabic area. Also will Cabrillio feature a Russian/Slavic neighbourhood to reflect the Russian influence and colonisation of the Pacific Northwest? Would be interesting.

[@PresCities]

Yes, this is a really good point! I have a project planned that will communicate exactly this. And a Russian neighborhood would be interesting - are there other examples in the PNW?

[@mvoxie-4055]

How does your game run so smoothly? Once I hit 10k population or more, the framerate gets so bad!

[@floris794]

Yo pres, whats the color correction LUT that you're using? Nice work btw

[@PresCities]

Relight2North

[@goldfishkaden1539]

how are we already on episode 16

[@cruelaz]

Im always suprised how less green spaces american cities have compared to all the european I have been to and lived in.

[@waltercunningham4892]

this is kind of irrelevant to this episode but i saw this ted talk about walkability one time kzbin.info/www/bejne/bJSvZoGrmZ2Xbdk and at the end he brings up a project in columbus ohio where two neighborhoods separated by a freeway were brought together by a development on the bridge- i think it would be tight if you built something like that here anyway keep doing what you love :D

[@mebjohm8650]

10:15 "we're just gonna have to see how that pans out". that sums up the new urbanist approach to gentrification so perfectly. I bet the residents of Buchanan are so glad to have an urban planner like you looking out for them. white urban planners and advocates are like: "I'm just gonna run this interesting experiment on POC's lives and see how it pans out". yet another example of white people doing experiments on POC.

[@PresCities]

I mean, I agree that *way* too many people who consider themselves "urbanists" put way too little emphasis on preventing displacement--so little that they never really take the time to understand the complicated dynamics behind it. I said "we'll just have to see how that pans out" under the assumption that I'm not (at least at this point) planning Cabrillo normatively like an urban planner. I'm building a city all at once (which is really unrealistic, obviously) observing and discussing what the city looks like as we go. For so many reasons, this is not ideal. I potentially want to do a "Season 2" where we plan actual projects at a realistic point in time and discuss their drawbacks and advantages. That's not really what Cabrillo is right now, though, because if I operate under the assumption that I'm *planning* the city right now, it will give people the idea that the way I'm expanding is realistic. Which it isn't. It's just how Cities: Skylines works, unfortunately.

[@mebjohm8650]

@@PresCities I get what your saying about the way you're building the city. but the point is I don't think you put enough emphasis on displacement. i think displacement is going to get so much worse over the next decade. working class mainly non-white people are going to get trapped in the worst car dependent suburbs with nowhere to go and no community. also remember the strong towns idea of removing suburban infrastructure, i think it's going to gain a lot of traction as suburbs become poorer and less white. in 20 years American cities could be a playground for tech guys surrounded by a sea of miserable, deprived, segregated-in-all-but-name car-sprawl with no infrastructure. When you and other urbanists do talk about gentrification and displacement your solution is always density. it's so rare that you talk about social housing and you completely avoid the question of whether housing should be a commodity. the idea that density equals lower rents seems like free market economics to me. landlords are powerful and don't want rents to go down. San Fransisco, Portland and other west coast cities are an extreme case where rents are so high and density so low that just increasing density would probably reduce displacement to a certain point. That's not the case for most other cities but you talk as if all cities were SF, Portland or Vancouver and i think that's a bit deceptive. London has insanely high and constantly rising density but it's a displacement tragedy. Working class people of color are being forced out into Essex and Kent and rents a some of the highest in Europe. when you don't make it clear that your solutions for displacement only apply to a few cities then it gives people in cities where it doesn't apply dangerously wrong ideas about what they need to push for. physical city design can't solve these problems on it's own.

[@PresCities]

​@@mebjohm8650 I totally agree, and these are excellent points. I agree displacement needs to be emphasized more and especially its many forms--I am most familiar with the situation on the west coast, so density is one of my top priorities. I'm still trying to get better at communicating this stuff, and believe me I support social housing and decommoditization of housing in general, and recognizing housing as a human right and not a market asset. Your articulation re: what cities and suburbs will become is really interesting (and depressing, and realistic if we don't fight for very strong anti-displacement measures). All of this is why I'm so fascinated with planning and community development but also with broader discussions in political economy that question assumptions about what role housing has in the first place. I appreciate your comment + criticisms, though, and know that I do completely agree with you and am trying to address one topic at a time (although I'll get better at communicating more information at once as I make more videos like this). Comments like this are how I get better at commentating and emphasizing the right things, so thanks!

[@unfvzedmak]

When are u gonna build a sprawling suburb if u will that is

[@PresCities]

once I fill out more stuff closer to the center of the city

[@unfvzedmak]

@@PresCities okaayyyyyy

[@d_j_sims]

coops! land trusts! social/public housing! #SaveBuchanan!

[@yaboiandrew2058]

Now that’s gamer

[@KortJ88]

Don’t really care to hear race relation topics when I’m watch Cities Skylines, but he’s speaking facts

[@morningstar8345]

I’d loved to live in that city where lgbtq members free to show their colors 😍

[@unfvzedmak]

My city is very lgbtq friendly you see pride flags outside houses in a nice part of town over the years it has become friendly to these people :)

[@timothy_b03]

Are you ok

[@rstarks1125]

Caucasian endeavor ™️

[@danielhessel1907]

I preffered your old style of videos like back in New Windsor and Columbia. All of this racial stuff really takes away from the videos... as a non american those things are meaningless and just make your videos less entertaining

[@PresCities]

Well, I'm building an American city, and American cities are basically predicated on segregation so I don't know what to say

[@themicoism]

As someone who is not living in the States I find it quite interesting actually. Especially in a "racially homogenous" society, if you exchange "race" to "social class" then you'll find a somewhat similar pattern to city expansion.

[@ossizahl]

@@themicoism plus, at least here (Germany) there's often a pretty big migrant community (even 2nd or 3rd generation, born and raised in Germany) in cheaper (or as some might call it: uglier) districts of cities. So sure, one could easily ignore race-talks and argue "we in Europe have a completely different history", but the effects are pretty much the same, at least regarding gentrification and pushing out "older" residents for some shiny new upper class appartements or how these "cheap" districts came to be

[@gearandalthefirst7027]

"As a non-american, those things are meaningless" I'm not sure how to break it to you, but anywhere on this planet that a european has set foot on currently has problems with racism.

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

Then don't watch them?

[@13eavuss]

lol unsubcribed.. not gonna listen to your CRT BS.. L8r

[@dragonbornexpress5650]

When you're trying to sound tough, but you actually sound like a clown. That is you.