INSANE NEWS about Grand Cathay in Warhammer the Old World!!

[@Bog_Dog]

Big if true. The intern who cropped a nice backdrop he found for the roadmap: *sweats*

[@RolandoRatas]

Dude should get a promotion for distraction tactics. Roll on the Vampire Counts !

[@gstellar96]

Tbf the backdrop for the roadmap is just that Tomb Kings vs Bretonnia artwork. It's only specifically that empty box in the middle that has the Cathay art in it

[@alltat]

@@RolandoRatas Confuse everyone by releasing Vampire Cathay.

[@monkeyhammer]

For anyone hung up on "not for the foreseeable future" that's what they said about emperors children last april too, so there powers of foresight aren't that good

[@miliripi]

To make the link between Cathay and the old world we need Chaos Dwarf and their big hats!

[@ryanbombard6607]

But only if they have crazy hats!

[@Farquard]

And I'll need my Ogres back.

[@JT_Soul]

And the Hobgoblin Khanate!

[@jamesn2830]

Would be cool. It blows my mind that GW now has 2 fantasy settings that both have lore for undead vampire pirate factions and neither of them have models to represent that. That concept is so loved that Disney made 3 movies for it. GW, people like pirates. get on it already

[@MortalAgenda]

People like pirates and people LOVE undead pirates. GW needs to crack on with this one

[@sbart23]

Hey, they have also updated that dope interactive map the other day, fleshing out Estalia… before quickly backtracking on the post and going back to the old version of the map. That’s at least as exciting to me as Cathay, given that the direct neighbour to Bretonnia had like three place names to it and 2 sentences worth of lore written on it in the past 40 years.

[@RolandoRatas]

Very interesting ! I missed that 'event' where GW backtracked on the map. So that's essentially fantasy Spain getting a human army maybe, I bet they'll have helmets and breast plates like the Conquistadors.

[@asathomm5949]

I’m eagerly waiting for them to fix the map and update it. It is clear that they are working on an updated map, please GW release it and show us more! (Maybe Cathay is included?)

[@Gomkhael]

Hope they do us a favour and release armies for border princes, Tilea and Estalia. My personal project is an Estalian army so getting proper GW models would be a dream

[@JagdWehrwolf]

@@Gomkhael I would not count on Border Princedoms, due to it's 'make-your-own-army' region status.

[@Gomkhael]

@@JagdWehrwolf honestly I am counting on nothing knowing how GW works. But yeah, good point with the border princes. The chances are almost none but one has to dream sometimes

[@adriend7134]

Retailer in the East here. That for sure would boost the game like crazy in our area. And it would allow to grow the IP in a very distinct way.

[@zachmoss8896]

I really think we will see Kesliv in the next edition box set as well as chaos warriors with demons !! with the storm of chaos campaign

[@JoeLewis-k8x]

So this means that the ‘Forces if Fantasy’ army book will be outdated when Cathay is released. So either a. Updated Grand Army book at the same time Cathay is released or b. Cathay will be released as started box for version 2 or C. Cathay will get a bloody large Arcane Journal!

[@MalkavDraconic]

Prepping for next edition to go full force back into army books?

[@regalforever]

If it means that they are going to be updating old world armies with new models, I’m all for a new edition with new codexes!

[@elessar8522]

Old models are not a drag, they're a boost, thanks to nostalgia ... at least this brought me back

[@wraithship]

New models are lovely as painting and show peices. Old models are great for building armies and conversions

[@potetnamnbaknamn895]

They have yet to release a single new WHF sculpt that I want, I am all there for old sculpts. If they release Cathay, I won't be buying a single figurine for that faction, if I HAD to make an army for them, I would copy the cathay army showed of in an old white dwarf.

[@MrLordi27]

This is bittersweet news. On one hand, we get a new cool looking army, and on the other hand, my three armies don't get the same love.

[@Bloodthirstier]

I am sure all the armies are going to get love eventually. Even the legacy armies. They are too popular.

[@gstellar96]

​@Bloodthirstier They do get love, its just from AoS lol

[@khagan]

I just finished listening to your FAQ video, and it's nice to feel excitement lol.

[@CygnusMaximusXIII]

Pure conjecture: SDS had the rug pulled out from under them while designing Cathay/Kislev and basically had any future for the Old World made contingent upon sales of ancient models with just a few new ones tossed in. Because they needed people to invest now to keep the game afloat, they told people there weren't plans for Kislev/Cathay (despite the obviously extensive work they'd already done) so that people wouldn't sit on their money waiting for the new armies. I realize that's being somewhat generous with the actual studio members while being pretty realistic with executives, but I *hope* that's how it went down.

[@thewellandvalley2103]

The idea of an Old World army with entirely new sculpts may well get me to buy in.

[@IceJoust]

The Scope Of The Project Has Increased! Marking my calendar in anticipation: really nice pick up in the wake of the..mixed feelings in the FAQ!

[@edwardbridenbaker6315]

I almost jumped on tomb kings but the fear of cleaning up the old models again. Though still working on my old metal beastmen painting. I still need to rebase my kornagors and pestigors.

[@Locknut61]

One of the things I like is the support in the rules for old models, such as the option for Gor unit champions to take Great Weapon. That is entirely because of the old metal champion model.

[@tyranitararmaldo]

For models, I predict three plastic kits: - Peasant Spearmen/Archers - Jade Warriors/Crossbowmen - Jade Lancers These will give enough variety and mix-and-match that you will be able to create a ton of units from just these three boxes. I feel like none of the Cathayan DLC units will be present. Or at least will only be options for variant lists, with no models.

[@EdwardEast-x4q]

Yes, I did see this! Had to count all the armies as I didn't sort of believe they would add an extra army . Then I knew something was coming!

[@tuned_tv]

My army is already printed, primed and 2 units base colored from those Kyuoshuneko prints I showed you. Was just going to use it as empire but I'm super hyped.

[@duncan1544]

The "not for the foreseeable future" comment was made before the game dropped, or early on, before "the scope of the project has changed". I think this is literally what they meant by that - pretty hyped.

[@thecaptive84]

Also about the general reveal, am I the only one who thought that the updating of the Grave Guard and Black Knights units in AoS with new models and names could point towards a future Vampire Counts comeback for TOW? As in those older units would eventually be for VC.

[@Drink-MILK-Now]

Thought the same

[@Runeinc]

Right there with you

[@ghot3]

Agreed

[@martinjrgensen8234]

Who would want those old janky minis now anyway 😂

[@FancyPantsDan]

I was actually thinking the whole thing is pointing towards separating the AoS line more from TOW. Especially if they do plan on Cathay being the next addition to TOW. Making Cathay would mean they need to create a whole new range of models. It's not very often that GW does something like that, usually it's a few additions to an existing range or a new range that's half borrowed units from other factions (ex. variations of marines) That's a fair bit of effort from GW when soo many people are asking for the legacy armies, unless they are avoiding those lines and going with the next easiest faction to make, Cathay, the effort of general model and rule conception has already been done with total war warhammer 3. Kislev would make some sense too, but as others have mentioned, they for some reason feel less different to Empire factions than Cathay does

[@andrewclarke520]

Didnt think we’d get a new OW army EVER, happy to wait a while but am now a very excited middle aged geek 😀

[@Rhaenday]

As the first completely new army and, as you say, a great potential on-boarding point - I can only hope they are price it at a point where they go for maximizing number of kits sold rather than profit per kit.

[@Genesee.Billiam]

Will definitely be happy with Cathay, but I think the replacement of all the old vampire counts minis with new distinct soul blight grave lords is be surprised if we don’t eventually see vampire counts especially since Harkon in the border princes was the only faction outside the Empire highlighted on the map in the Empire arcane journal

[@brianwalsh1339]

Would’ve preferred Kislev, tbh.

[@overlordfuzz9254]

Cathay will be more of a departure from existing factions (Empire) and will be completely new ranges which I hope shuts up the naysayers a bit more.

[@dbones8795]

@@overlordfuzz9254how do people think Cathay will be so different from the empire? They’re quite literally just humans warriors with different hats

[@michelefilios1219]

Or, more Simply, they want to sell more in China

[@overlordfuzz9254]

@ call me Chinese then 因为我也想买

[@overlordfuzz9254]

@@dbones8795 I mean the harmony mechanic and access to dragons and terracota constructs also probably a lot of flyers in general

[@alexmadrigal9703]

Don't expect the miniature designs to visually be 1:1 with Total War. The proportions in Total War are very realistic. They'll be in the same ballpark for sure, but it's not going to be an exact copy paste. It's exciting to think that an all new army is coming to the Warhammer world after so many years. I wonder if this is part of the suggested increase to scope, or if this was in the pipe all along. I was hoping the increase to scope was going to be Legacy armies coming back. This is still awesome.

[@tomcorbett6089]

Cathay and kislev were being teased at literally the first ever announcement of the game. This was always the plan. Hopefully legacy's returning is the scope increasing :)

[@Dalinks337]

Agreed about the miniature designs! I feel for this, the best comparison we should make between how Grand Cathay's miniatures COULD look and the current miniatures would be looking at the Knights of the Realm on Foot. They will certainly look just like the in game designs, but some details may look a little thicker for example. EDIT: I realise Knights of the Realm on Foot don't have an in game unit but I hope people at least get my point! : )

[@cap202]

Really excited that the old world is expanding, and as an empire player curious to see new models and the potential for conversions. Thinking about how MTG added Chinese inspired characters to appeal to the Eastern market, it is probably shrewd business sense on GWs part to add Cathay in too. A forces of fantasy book for the east would be cool, include ogres, chaos dwarfs and Cathay in it too, then put the Cathay Arcane Journal out with the second wave of miniatures

[@Locknut61]

Ever since the late 1980s, "the foreseeable future" has been two weeks as far as I'm concerned. There were worries about redundancies, so the question was asked. The response was that there are no olans for redundancies in the foreseeable future. Two weeks later, the redundancies were announced.

[@mandzakminiatures]

Well at least my Araby project is still safe. Looking forward to seeing what bits I can use for things. Still wish VC would come to the old world, I want the good skeleton kit. I remember Dave Taylors Cathay army in US WD long ago, wonderful conversions. Believe he used a lot of Brets conversion wise and rules.

[@KRQuinn-1960]

Cathay was rumored way back in WHFB. As a dedicated DE player from 5th through first part of 8th (I did not like the way the game went..but just my opinion) Cathay was always a opponent for the DE that was mentioned a lot. I haven’t delved into TOW yet, this might get me back in for the aesthetic..hoping the game gets big enough that the grognards I see commenting everywhere get drowned out (another reason I haven’t dived in).. I’m 64 years old and really get turned off by a lot of the typing heads around this game tbh. You two are a breath of fresh air. Thanks for the coverage!

[@CyrodiilCome]

My Bretonnians look forward to liberating the poor oppressed peasants of cathay from their dragon overlords!

[@anvilofdoomminiatures]

Summed it up perfectly, the future is bright for the Old World.

[@lestrike2707]

Cathay first released as a trading caravan

[@Antioch82]

Kislev: It should have been me!!!!!! Cathay would be pretty dope though.

[@smorc65]

Would've preferred Kislev, but if they're trying to hold off on doing the big Chaos war for a few years, I suppose it makes sense to do Cathay sooner.

[@mrsnakesmrnot8499]

Cathayan would be the excuse to officially bring in the legacy factions. Ogres and Chaos dwarfs are knocking on Cathay’s western door. The Great Barrier in the north is holding back daemonic hordes. The rat men plague everybody, including Cathay, and dark elves are raiding from the East. Hell, you can even have the snakemen of Khuresh, on Cathay’s southern border, be an army of infamy list within a Lizardmen release.

[@kurisi5563]

If they announce it my wallet is cooked though, cooked- I want to get wood elves for sure

[@martinjrgensen8234]

Could be cool. Will keep my eye out for the minis

[@mjhsinclair]

8:24 That Warhammer Community article was sent to test the faithful.

[@danielmcelwain6841]

I think they can also market that if they have Miao Ying she is the only model you can play in Old World and Total War

[@smorc65]

The TTRPG most recent ed has a Cathayan ambassador based in Altdorf

[@tyranitararmaldo]

I have been umming and aahing about playing this game, but one thing that put me off was when Cathay was "canned". I was really looking forward to them, but then they went and so did my enthusiasm. But now...now they have my attention.

[@mjhsinclair]

3:36 Point about ogres is a big one. This opens up a whole new continent where ogres and snakemen and all kinds of craziness leave. Not saying any of its coming tomorrow but if one of GW’s laments about Fantasy was lack of “design space” they just opened up a load more.

[@asathomm5949]

Oh god I need snakemen. My dream new armies would be: Snakemen of Khuresh, Ind, Araby and Estalia. Gw have a lot of places and faction to explore, I hope the game continues to grow and sell well so we can have things like those

[@achromicwhite2309]

Pretty wild if we get competitive rules for a whole new army, but not for a significant portion of the other armies. Still cool if true.

[@batpockets2449]

What are the chances there are previously unreleased models or test models that they'll release as part of wave 1?

[@frankyuengling8074]

If Cathay will eventually come out the next question is when will the pygmies come out.

[@oldex6564]

This is absolutely HUGE I am literally WRACKED with GUFFS!!

[@Tangodownmtndew]

They didn’t add many newer models but they are making a new army with a completely different aesthetic. Very bold. Wish they had made new knights of Warhammer.

[@jacklyons2088]

id like to throw out a prediction for the wood elves release, new dryad sculpts

[@TheWilliamsT]

If you wanted to keep it geographically to the Old World, you could have the armies be escorts of trading caravans. A bit like High Elves and their out-posts. Lizard Men could have a random floating Ziggurat appear over a mountain is another way of getting them "into" the Old World.

[@turbosnowy]

Still waiting for Dark Elves (and a sweet battalion box set) and hopeful for Vampire Counts to come back (slumming it with getting Soulblight Gravelords currently and sticking on square bases).

[@oleww50]

Was really hoping for new High Elf spearmen and archers 🥲 but happy to see them finally getting released into The Old World

[@JamesBallII]

That is amazing news!!!! 🖤🔥🐉

[@iand3lond]

From the faq tonthis teaser, what a week.

[@TombKingTristan]

Having never played a game of The Old World, I’m ecstatic!

[@marcostercero8848]

Page 86 from the TOW manual

[@KT-pl5qy]

If they do it I hope they keep it in the scale of the rest of the range. I’d hate to see cathayan troops towering over all the other armies.

[@bww33]

This is their way of testing the waters to see how much buzz can be generated for future armies. They wanted to see how popular (and profitable) the game would be on its initial release (which is why they said "for the foreseeable future") They've seen that the game will make money, so now they are open to releasing/making more armies.

[@ExpatWargamer]

When people talk about how much minis costs, it pays to keep in mind that something from Historicals have MUCH, MUCH more competition, because you can't copyright the look of the figure; individual sculpts, yes of course. But an Enlgish knight in plate armor with a visored bascinet can be made by anyone. Whereas copying an SF or Fantasy figure is a bit harder to do legally, & may be subjected to legal action, depending on how much it infringes (for reference, read up on what happened in Battletech with the Harmony Gold lawsuits, which extended beyond the questionably licensed Macross designs). In the end, this level of competition will push prices down.

[@KnightsofTitan]

Maybe itll be cathway vampire counts? Thatd be cool

[@stijncallant457]

It is good to see that something new is coming except some individual character models. It does give more hope that they aren't going to drop it like they did with Warhammer fantasy. In the future they might still bring in legacy armies.

[@TombKingTristan]

I for one am STOKED on the possibilities of more armies and maybe even a second waves for some armies. Tomb Kings Wave 2 pleaaaaase.

[@barretmusselman9977]

I still think this will be what they kick the next edition off with.. Id like to see them and Chaos Dwarfs in a Boz set.

[@ObsidianCrane]

"not for the foreseeable future" is code for "not until accounts greenlights it" - if this is Cathay, this is a sure sign that sales on Old World are enough that GW things they can turn a profit from such a release. Release size - the big box, 3 heroes.

[@chefboyardee2670]

Trust me lol

[@TrippyTheShroom]

I was really hoping Kislev would still be released... any word on that? I haven't heard anything whatsoever in what feels like forever.

[@jayemcbride6772]

One of cathay's enemies is Ogre kingdoms so I wouldn't be surprised to see them come out with TOW v 2.0 in 2025. I also noted in GW's sneak peek yesterday that during the roll out of the AOS vamp models, they never once mentioned TOW, telling me that there's still a rift between the two internally. Seems like a no brainer to say 'btw old world players, there would be great for...'

[@Kallistosprom]

Does mean it’s probably a while before a new edition.

[@mjhsinclair]

11:06 Multi-year process would be the precedent from 40K I think. But Legiones Imperialis feels like it’s moved pretty quick?

[@aronrowley411]

Gw massively underestimated old world sales. Hence they are gonna do all the stuff they said they were not gonna do. New factory meand quicker processing of models means more money for them!

[@radicaledward101]

If they really do this I think it's a big confirmation that the game has done better than they expected.

[@spiritofgroot1999]

Renegade factions are coming back as soon as they’ve finished the refreshes in AoS. Ogres are the main one left. Dark elves and dwarves are getting axed in next CoS battletomb Also, they said it wasn’t going to happen to try and throw off the 3rd party sculptors.

[@TheCoyote808]

Chorfs and Kislev will halp us bridge thine army gaps!

[@JohnZastrow]

I'm like.... 80% sure that artwork first appeared Warhammer Total War, but I do think it's in the Old World book somewhere too.

[@fiveharlotsandjosh]

You are right, the old world rule book has a thank you to creative assembly for letting them use the art work.

[@markysgeeklab8783]

They didn't say they wouldn't do it. They basically said they will do it but not for ages.

[@ghot3]

Can't wait to see how they justify Cathays presence in the Old World region lore wise before any of the legacy factions...still excited to see a new faction but Kislev, Dogs of War, along with any legacy factions would have made way more sense.

[@MalkavDraconic]

I’m inclined to believe it won’t be Cathay. The art work used could be intentional to mislead.

[@AM-uw3gp]

GW…. Mislead customers…. How dare you state the obvious sir 😂

[@MalkavDraconic]

@ it’s my super power!

[@faithgacha1554]

I still think it’s dogs of war, but Cathay would give me something to look forward to.

[@mrsnakesmrnot8499]

Yeah, the old dogs of war (Tilean and Estalian) PLUS various regiments from the Orient! This would be a twist and a surprise to those assuming that a strictly Cathayan release is on the horizon.

[@G1Bryce]

Dogs of War makes the most sense

[@feldorous]

Regarding Cathay and the 'current' lore (ie End Times) could this be where we see GW introducing an alternative timeline where the End Times didnt happen? Or maybe they did but the outcome was different? Would explain why Cathay is coming in now. And would erase the mistake of End Times (yes I'm still bitter about it)

[@Nekorook]

I want it to be true. I'm interested in seeing how they tie them into the current story. a trade caravan maybe?

[@Mv-oo2me]

I wonder if we get al new books then, or is this Gone be the first singel army book for 1 army.😅

[@The-Apothekari]

we need Cathay, Chaos Dwarves, Araby & Nippon 😭

[@themidnightaristocrat]

Despite the inclusion of the artwork, there are still people in Facebook groups saying they think it's Vampire Counts or Dark Elves. I don't know why people are struggling to believe this?

[@UnamedRandom]

Aw man I hope we get a plastic kit for the dragons

[@sluagh75]

Grungi ‘s Beard well done.

[@alagass6466]

I was never interested in Cathay but I think I'll buy the AJ and Battle force just to support the release. I want TOW to become a real flag bearer for GW and not be AoS's loud bastard sibling.

[@MalignMusings]

Okay, I would love to see Cathay on the tabletop, can't wait to see the dragons. It was definitely headed by the WTW team, although as I've said before, the people who design the models in CAD assisted CA in developing the models for WTW - so the models you see in the actual total war game can be broken down and made up as models on the tabletop, in theory... On the 'forseeable future' comment, this was before they said 'the scope of the project has changed' wasn't it?

[@Nakai_the_Wanderer]

I am not interested in Cathay because its neither dark, nor bleak in the way I love my Warhammer, but I am happy to see them making new models for Old World. I was hoping for Kislev, because I just love the Idea of Bear cavalry on the table, but this is a good sign for the future of Old World. The Kislev designs are also available in Total War Warhammer, so here is hoping for that.

[@JT_1290]

Known it was coming since before the release of Old World. Just nice to see it on the event horizon now so people don't think I'm mental anymore.

[@mrsnakesmrnot8499]

Is it possible that people think that you are mental for other reasons? 😅

[@tomcorbett6089]

How did you know?

[@ryanbombard6607]

I mean, they released an article showing off concept art for the Cathay units. I figured if the game was successful Cathay would hit the shelves.

[@DayneGodwin]

"So they don't require an engineering degree to put together" is the Anvil of Doom a joke to you, Val?!

[@sitheclimber]

Torn in two here - would love to play Cathay again but my bank balance.....

[@JamesPHewitt]

Is this good or bad news for legacy armies though?

[@lesterdarke]

I mean they announced Kislev and Cathay originally back in 2019... so clearly they've had all the assets for a while but changed plans due to capacity/strategy reasons. But if Old World has been successful and capacity issues are being resolved then why wouldn't you dust off the old plans. Fingers crossed hard for Chaos Dwarves 2016.....

[@RolandoRatas]

If Cathay is coming in, does this mean that a hobgoblin army is soon to follow ?

[@tinymagic-espennedregotten822]

I think they will reveal this at Adepticon 2025! This will be so amazing!

[@WayneKemp-h6t]

I hope it looks and feels like an Old World army and not something that looks more suited to A

[@joshuabraddy6264]

So freaking excited!!

[@andrewj1754]

Rob - models that stand up, and those that don”t is pretty subjective. Besides, so many new models have TOO MANY balls and whistles that they are annoying to paint… I thought as someone who doesn’t love painting, you could appreciate that angle too?

[@andrewj1754]

That said, 30 year old Empire barded warhorses needed an update, as well as almost as old skeleton warriors…

[@SquareBasedOldWorld]

It's just a personal preference, but painting is my passion!

[@ComandaKronikk]

I agree for the most part with you Andrew some of the old ones are iconic any my faves. Heinrich Kemmler and the old S shaped dragons

[@konatelassina5301]

What is "SCS"?

[@stuartbailey6152]

It’s SGS - the Specialist Games Studio, a separate team within Games Workshop that works on the “smaller” games (not 40k or AoS)

[@SwopetheDope]

I'd like to talk about those new undead models.... MY GAWD

[@bumoftennis8290]

Go Bills, Josh Allen MVP

[@fuckyoutube247]

lamar gonna wreck him sunday. AND lamar is gonna win mvp

[@goatforcemcgoat8233]

Definitely getting the inevitable Cathay box. If they do Khuresh and Nippon as well my wallet is in grave danger!

[@mrsnakesmrnot8499]

Khuresh snakemen as an army… I have wondered about this possibility for years. Perhaps it could be an army of infamy list for Lizardmen, if or when the Lizardmen make a comeback.

[@goatforcemcgoat8233]

@@mrsnakesmrnot8499 Nah that wouldn't work, the Snakemen as I recall are pretty much an opposite of the LM. The little we know is they have all sorts of blood/dark magic and they apparently created the Dread Maws.

[@mrsnakesmrnot8499]

@@goatforcemcgoat8233No snakemen, then 👍 (as a contingent of Lizardmen). 😉