Testing China's FSD Leader - XPeng XNGP

A review of XPeng XNGP, the original king of autonomous driving in China.
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Before Huawei started sticking lidars on cars, XPeng were the original autonomous driving kings in China. Their P5 was the first production car in the world to be fitted with lidar and boast city autonomous driving, but only in one city.
With the added brain power of the XPeng G6, XNGP now covers four Chinese cities, so we took it out to see how it fares against Huawei's ADAS system on the busy streets of Shanghai.
#chinacar #chinesecars #electriccar #evs #china #autonomousvehicles #autonomouscars #xngp #xpeng #xpengg6 #fsd

[@npimksztsz]

As I see from the videos, chinese are way ahead of Tesla. I also have a question. The Avatr 11 you tested had ADS 1.0 or 2.0? It would be nice to see what the new Harmony edition offers.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

I think it was 1.0 as I think I tested it before the recent update to 2.0 so might be even better now.

[@MeridianLuxTravelService]

Love your videos very informative.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Thank you very much. Glad to have you.

[@etbadaboum]

Great video, thanks!

[@InsideChinaAuto]

You're welcome.

[@JianYZhong]

Thanks, will be interesting to see the system improve with time. Forwarding this to my friends. I’m sure they will be interested!

[@InsideChinaAuto]

I was impressed, so much better than it was on the P5 in Guangzhou. Felt very smooth almost the whole way bar a couple of occasions.

[@ds2332]

Great video

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Why thank you.

[@JS-mj9en]

doing 50 in a 60 zone made total sense as it knew there was a red light ahead and was saving power.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Could be the reason. Smart if so since many cars (and certainly drivers here) don't anticipate like that. They just race from red to red.

[@RexNathanChan]

Surely in the next versions, you will be able to choose which lane you prefer to stay in ("less lane chnage mode", more aggressive", "eco" etc) and also to slow donw more etc

[@InsideChinaAuto]

That's a great idea. I'd love that choice.

[@HyperionLogic]

Impressed with the HD maps and vehicle to infrastructure integration. For the foreseeable future, I still think this kind of systems are more useful as advanced driver assistance and collision avoidance and mitigation rather than a viable replacement to human drivers.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Definitely in the short term, I agree. The jump to full autonomy will be a big one but they're closer than most.

[@MrHOREEE]

Next time, maybe you must try Wuling Cloud (Baojun Yunduo) 😎👍

[@InsideChinaAuto]

I can't wait to try that car. Sat in one the other day. Huge boot and big cushy seats. Love it.

[@havencat9337]

the Avatar seems to be the best so far!

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Certainly has a wider usability range at the moment but both very impressive in the parts they can practice in.

[@NeutralGenericUser]

Thank you so much for doing these videos. These systems are super impressive, and I love the graphics, although I wish they'd increase the framerate. A big problem that I see is the lack of capacitive steering wheel; do any such cars in China have a capacitive wheel?

[@InsideChinaAuto]

You're welcome. Glad to have you watching. You're right about frame rate, or I guess it's more about how quickly the radars and sensors and things visualise an object and where it is and where it's pointing. The downside of this car is indeed the lack of a capacitive wheel, but others do have it, such as the Rising F7 we reviewed (not as talented as this, yet) and I think the AVATR 11 we also reviewed with the Huawei system has it too, but I didn't seem to get it to work on my video.

[@siyuanzuo3750]

I can see this technology becoming a huge help to the rideshare drivers in the future, making their daily job less fatiguing.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Haha, until it becomes too good, then it puts them out of a job.

[@just4therecord]

Like you I prefer to drive on my own. It's nice to have semi auto driving and we have to start somewhere to get to higher levels. I have to use more brain power and be more involved when using semi auto.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Agreed. Apparently a test proved that drivers are more stressed when using these systems but that all comes down to trust and what level is needed for people to be happy to let it to its thing on its own.

[@MahendraSingh-ry4zd]

Welcome 😮

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Where are you hoping for it to come?

[@Asian_Connection]

I wonder where Huawei got their navigation system? Strange how similar it looks!

[@InsideChinaAuto]

They all look similar. I think it's a smart thing to have a kind of industry standard on looks so it's not such a faff changing from one brand to another.

[@lyndonthejohnson]

3个星期以后我去上海出差。 Gotta do a test-drive!

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Yeah you do. Try all the autonomous guys out if you can.

[@isuruthiwanka2595]

love it bro Compared to Tesla X both Huawei Avatar and Xpeng are far ahead.. No any discussions

[@InsideChinaAuto]

I'd have to compare side by side but these are both really good in practice.

[@masumipianowork]

Hello. Can you review NIO?

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Hello. Yes we can, we've just driven the ET5 very recently which will be our first one in a few weeks, but we're going to get more in the near future so stay tuned.

[@stevenbarrett7648]

Interesting about lack of forward thinking? Our MY only reacts to speed changes as it passes the sign so arriving at a 30 sign doing 40 it takes ages to wind down to the new limit and the Police spy vans are usually right on top of the sign so I would get a ticket every time if I allowed the car complete control which I don’t!

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Seems they have the same issue then. Until they think ahead, as good as they get, I can't see them being as natural as humans. It's not everything of course, and if they all end up autonomous and can talk to each other then OK, but then where's the joy of driving?

[@InsideChinaAuto]

@jasonk125 You don't have to drive like a lunatic to enjoy driving though, for many it's just a pleasurable experience to control something and if you want more fun you can go to a race track. Those who die in cars tend to do so either through irresponsible driving (either too fast, too reckless, too busy enjoying their phone), through being hit by the first bunch of people, or just through pure bad luck. Sadly we can't trust everyone around us not to mess everything up.

[@stevenbarrett7648]

@@InsideChinaAuto the joy of driving has been gradually removed by fines traffic lights and roadworks, basically its a dream

[@InsideChinaAuto]

@jasonk125 I'm referencing people in cars dying. Any pedestrians who die are likely to fall into the category of being hit by reckless drivers or crossing roads without paying attention (or walking in the road as so many here do). Cars driven reasonably and with full care and attention within the rules shouldn't crash except through vehicle failure, that's a simple fact. There are 3 reasons a car can crash. 1. Failure 2. Poor driving (theirs or others) 3. Act of God, like a falling tree. If you can think of more I'm open to listening. But as I made clear in my first post, you can enjoy driving without breaking rules or driving recklessly. Cities are no fun these days of course with so many other cars and loads of traffic lights but are you telling me you can't cruise leisurely down a country road or canyon or forest or coastal road within the speed limit and just enjoy the scenery and the wind in your hair? I'd also wager the vast, vast majority of deaths on roads are in cities and urban areas where people shouldn't be driving anything other than within the rules and with full care and attention.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

@jasonk125 Are you an idiot or just being deliberately obtuse? Who is blaming victims? If you get hit by somebody driving recklessly and you're where you're supposed to be then of course that's the reckless driver's fault. If a car is driving within the rules and you decide to walk in the road when there's a perfectly good sidewalk or run out from in front of a stationary bus or cross on a red light, you have to take some responsibility for your own actions. What do you think the guy driving down the coast with the wind in his hair is doing? Swerving left and right like he's slaloming between cones, drifting his back end out, mounting the kerb or driving up hiking trails to mow people down? I specifically said "driving within the law" and "with full care and attention". What part of that are you deliberately neglecting when deciding on what to spout?

[@npimksztsz]

Great video! I have several comments :) 0:36 - you say we should check the top corner for the Avatr video, but its not there. 6:45 I don't know the situation in China, but we have some tolerance here in Hungary, so if the speed limit is 50 and you drive 51 you wont get punished. Actually the tolerance is 10-15 km/h, or sometimes its just 10% of the speed limit.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Ah, so the little link isn't appearing in the top right? I set it up to appear. Will check it again. Thanks for the pointer. As for tolerance, I'm guessing it is here too but not 100% certain. I know in Europe it is, and I guess it is here (I certainly drive like it is) but I don't know it for a fact.

[@bilibala9394]

Allow no more than 10% of the speed limit in China

[@bilibala9394]

Another video of Avatr' self-driving in downtown kzbin.info/www/bejne/m3_ckoSLlK6Jhrc

[@Gemmy777]

In China, there are regulated sections on the road and lightly regulated, speeding isn't a big deal as traffic usually gets in the way anyway.

[@ReasonX3]

This thing looks very close or even better Tesla FSD v12. It it can recognize and avoid potholes, then its definitely way better then Tesla. I really love how it displays environment information - way better precision compared to Musk's camera-only vision. Tesla gonna have really hard competition trying to sell their FSD in China. Now, I know that some people may say that Tesla's system is better, because it doesn't rely on HD maps and thus should work everywhere. Recently I saw a video on AI DRIVER channel, where he discussed probability of Tesla starting their Robotaxi program this year. The main argument was that FSD v12 shows great improvements with every new version release and the author had no serious issues with the system in his recent test drives. But then I looked into the comment section and saw several comments that even FSD v12 has some serious issues. Most probably the car feels "confidence" and "understanding" of how to drive in cities it has the most information about from previous training sessions. Otherwise it still can do some strange maneuverers, for example it still doesn't know how to correctly drive through American round abouts. And the car has no idea what potholes are and drives right into them without any attempts of evading or at least dropping down the speed. Most probably I am extremely biased towards Tesla's FSD and who knows, maybe engineers will be able to solve all those problems in three months (Robotaxy unveil is scheduled on 8/8/2024). Its good that the system adds 10% above speed limit on highways, otherwise it would create inconvenience for other drivers. It is always better drive with the same speed as the rest cars in the flow.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Great response and thanks for the detail. I'd love to see how FSD could do here in China, if it would be any good or not. Chinese systems are similar in that they're better in bigger cities. I tried XNGP in Shanghai and it was good but I tried it in Xi'an and it had more problems (video coming soon). FSD likely has similar issues. Right now it's hard to tell if humans are the problem (I.e. technology having to live around us and our unpredictability) or whether the tech is the problem (learns from us, still seems to make mistakes like us, can't think critically for itself, too many global variations to handle), but either way I'm quite happy driving myself right now. The only use case where I'd really care for autonomous driving is night travel to another city far away so I can avoid the plane or do work on the way, or maybe for sightseeing, letting a car drive you through a beautiful landscape so you can appreciate it without needing your eyes on the road.

[@p1mento]

great channel.. hard to belive the subs number.. anyway.. just want to say.... what is the point of FSD if it's not FSD? why do i have to think what is this computer going to do and have to worry about that all the time. isnt easier to just drive the car and have the peace of mind that you know what you are doing instead of trusting in a systems that im going to say once again.. it's not full self driving

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Glad you like it. The subs have to be earned so steadily we'll get there, it takes time. As for FSD, well I mean clearly it's false advertising because it's not what it says it is. It could be some day, and on some routes I'm sure it can be FSD at times, but it's not yet, and none of these systems are. Only Mercedes has level 3 approval on public roads and only in certain specific places and in certain specific conditions. It's going to be a process, you need a system people can try and test and prove just to convince them it's possible, that they can have some faith in it, otherwise you'll never get to full autonomy because nobody will buy or trust it, but it is definitely a pain point in the meantime because you have to monitor it like you'd monitor a child, so it's not hands-off eyes-off, but I suppose it does serve a purpose even if it feels a painful one right now.

[@johnsmith-cw3wo]

@@InsideChinaAuto Is way more annoying and tiring to constantly babysit the system than to do the actual driving yourself.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

@johnsmith-cw3wo I agree. Sadly it's a phase we have to get through if these systems are to get good enough to become trusted fully but at the moment it's just as tiring to always be second-guessing your car if not more. Those who love to drive will feel this pain more acutely as I believe we both do.

[@peterm5554]

I’ve seen actual robo taxis in China(on social media) with no safety driver. How can they be safe and yet the other systems that consumers drive are still alpha/beta quality?

[@InsideChinaAuto]

The ones you see online are generally in specific areas, so there are areas in Beijing and Shanghai and other cities that are officially designated for robotaxi trials, almost like a practice area, and most robotaxi companies set up in these areas. Generally they're well maintained areas away from the downtown and the cars can become experts in this area. The reason brands like XPeng and Huawei can't have level 4 or even level 3 ability and clearance is because they're out in the 'real world' where traffic is worse, roadworks are more sporadic, things can generally change a bit day-to-day, so it's much more about learning on your feet as such and the regulations don't permit level 3 yet. In fact I believe currently only Baidu has level 4, no-driver approval in any Chinese city.

[@peterm5554]

@@InsideChinaAuto Thanks for your answer. I was beginning to think Chinese cars were way ahead of Tesla because they use LIDAR and so are able to treat FSD as more of a physics problem as opposed to Tesla where the camera’s have to recognise and classify every object before the car reacts. I think I remember seeing a TESLA almost running into some monorail pillars because the FSD engine hadn’t been trained to recognise monorail pillars which is pretty difficult to do properly for those corner cases. Having a high definition road map must help the Chinese cars a lot also.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

@peterm5554 Indeed, and now they're learning to construct HD Maps as they go along. Using cloud servers and data from other cars that already passed down that road they should be able to create a fairly accurate real-time model of the roads as they go, but whether these brands will all ever talk to each other to share that info is another thing. I don't see that happening any time soon.

[@amjads8971]

Wow that display , map and auto pilot sort of view of the screen is far high tech compared to T Tesla

[@InsideChinaAuto]

XPeng do great screens, and spend a shed load on R&D. If they're not doing it right, they're wasting money.

[@randomname931]

the maps are much more detailed than teslas. it also scans and shows more than just the adjacent lanes. is XNGP an added cost feature like tesla FSD which is anywhere from $5-15k depending on what Elon had for breakfast?

[@InsideChinaAuto]

I believe it is though I'm not actually 100% sure on that. I'll find out.

[@KsazDFW]

The LiDAR and high definition mapping is what provides that view. This will require a full HD mapping of every road… seems like overkill compared to tesla’s approach of vision only.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

@@KsazDFW XPeng is now vision first with HD map back up in bigger cities. Not 100% certain if that was the case at the time of filming or if it's a recent change.

[@yinlongyang255]

do you think tesla's fsd will succeed in china? even without hd map?

[@johnsmith-cw3wo]

Tesla FSD will be BANNED in China... for ''national security reasons'' of course.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Very hard to say. It's just a different world to contend with in terms of other road users. If they didn't opt on the side of caution and started mowing people down they'd lose faith very quickly, but I don't even see them testing here so I don't think they're trying. HD maps are a necessary back up and with roadworks the situation can change a lot and quickly, but I believe they're at least being created to react in real world scenarios with or without maps so I wouldn't rule them out completely, but first they need to get approval.

[@user-wu3in7fl7v]

In China if you exceed the speed limit under 10% you’ll get no ticket or points deduction.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

As I suspected. Thanks for confirming. Seems to be a global thing.

[@miseseconomics]

offcourse it will work on such a road, with good lines and nice roads. Driving that in a older city will be a huge problem. You know how the marking lanes are in europe

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Trust me, they're not always that great here. Looking forward to testing the latest version in a more complex city like Guangzhou.

[@helddi]

Same stupid beeps as in my G9. Hope @Xpeng will change that for the European market.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Somebody told me the other day there are actually laws on certain beeps in Europe, which means they have to be set to come on each time the car is started and you have to turn them off each time. That would be crazy annoying, and yet it's the government making it necessary.

[@helddi]

@@InsideChinaAuto You can't turn several warning signals off. And there is no law that says that you get a beep each time the ACC or the LCC is activated and deactivated. And you can't these off! Also when lane departure assistent is ready you get a signal. Not very comfortable. The European market demands a different approach. Btw: in other EV's you can shut them off, sometimes everytime, sometimes forever. And the system that watches how alert the driver is, is very sensitive. Even when I look at my wife or when I yawn, I get a warning. Luckely I can turn that off. And then is an safety system not very helpful.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

@@helddi They definitely are one of the most bingy-bongy brands. Maybe I'll ask them one day why. Maybe the new OS will sort that.

[@helddi]

@@InsideChinaAuto I hope so. When I bought the car in the Netherlands the salesman promised me that these would change. Also the volume of the carkit for the 'other' side. And a lot of the buyers are complaining about the sensitivity of the LCC (even ghost braking) and the distance of the ACC to other cars. In Europe we don't keep our lane. It's the law that you drive on the most right side of the road, even of you have 5 or 6 lanes. So everyone is getting before you nose. ACC in Korean cars like Kia and Hyundai is much better. The G9 is a comfortabel car, that is very silent. But is would be a great car in the competition if @Xpeng would solve these issues.

[@itsnotai]

better than FSD

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Could well be. Will have to give FSD a full try in a country where it's fully up to date and enabled.

[@Oriental-perspective]

自动驾驶功能在国外用不了哦。

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Correct. For now. They'll need to sell more abroad or change the system learning method.

[@rickkay9548]

Sad it only works within such a specific and small area. So many limits and caveats and seems a bit clunky to get going. Should be very useful one day

[@reginald7214]

You're a Tesla fanboy. Stop crapping on everybody else's attempts. Benedict musk isn't going to promote you to cult lieutenant by spamming all over the place.

[@networm78]

They have already trialed the HD map-less version in Beijing last month. It will work in 50 cities by the time that version is officially released towards the end of the year.

[@johnsmith-cw3wo]

@@networm78 don't worry... Tesla FSD will be BANNED in China... for ''national security reasons'' of course.

[@johnsmith-cw3wo]

@@reginald7214 Tesla FSD will be BANNED in China... for ''national security reasons'' of course.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Well Shanghai is a city of 25 million people, it's not exactly small, but as others have said, it'll get rolled out further and further soon. Best to walk before you can run otherwise people will lose faith in the systems very fast.

[@m.a3914]

Can't wait for the time when Tesla's FSD is available in China. I read an article from Electrek that FSD would soon be available in China. It is up to the Chinese regulators to approve the FSD. The arcticle even wrote that Elon Musk actually met offcials there to discuss the matter. It should be an interesting comparison. I'm also curious if it has limitations like Xpeng as Tesla pretty much drivers everywhere. Companies like Xpeng are still way behind on this front.

[@mingouczjcz3800]

Compared to the top tier Chinese adas, Tesla's FSD is much inferior. For example, Huawei's adas system has 34 various sensors and a dual breaking mechanism, including lidar, while Tesla's has only 25 sensors with single breaking mechanism, without lidar.

[@m.a3914]

@@mingouczjcz3800 And how you came to that conclusion when Tesla is more than tested and every regulatory body comes to the same conclusion that Tesla is among the top of the industry.

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Are those regulatory bodies testing Chinese cars at all? Highly unlikely. Not saying they're better, just highly doubt they're trying them.

[@m.a3914]

@@InsideChinaAuto They should be

[@allowedme]

@m.a3914 Tesla has have 70 or more fatal cashes with it auto pilot.

[@SilentFoster]

Lol. Whoever says this is more advanced than FSD is out of their mind

[@InsideChinaAuto]

This is months ago. It's even better now.

[@stevenbarrett7648]

Put you knee under the wheel !

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Nice idea. I tend to sit quite low so maybe not so easy but not sure.

[@pratikxv]

If only Elon realises LIDAR is absolutely necessary

[@InsideChinaAuto]

He won't. He still thinks cameras can see 200 metres in thick fog. He should know, he spends much of his life surrounded by a dense fog of smoke on Joe Rogan.

[@alecang1006]

Are you a bat? Do you have built in lidar? Why you can drive without LiDAR ?

[@ijasdeen3809]

Without a single doubt, it will humble tesla

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Quite possible

[@Gemmy777]

Guangdong, Foshan and Guangzhou has better intergration with city NGP, I would know cuz I let the car drive itself 80% of the time.😂

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Awesome. Sounds like it works a treat then.

[@Asian_Connection]

Xpeng is the only ev company that has true autonomous driving. Telsa is nowhere close with their autodrive. Xpeng Adrive performs better than 90% of the human drivers.

[@catsilly819]

yes ，huawei is also good

[@InsideChinaAuto]

It's a really good system, as is the Huawei one, and they'll just get better.

[@nigelboom3943]

What about NIO and Li auto and BYD?

[@InsideChinaAuto]

@nigelboom3943 NIO don't have city-level ADAS yet but it is coming I believe, but no way to say how good. I've sat in Li's beta version and it was OK but they said it was 6/10 at the time. Should be much better now. BYD are not strong in this area yet, they're focusing on sales and product for now, but I believe the Denza N7 may be getting a similar system soon.

[@nigelboom3943]

@@InsideChinaAuto it seems like Xpeng is winning the race.

[@caljeff2427]

trash software

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Explain.

[@HcL-no5pq]

xpeng is not the best now,huawei is

[@InsideChinaAuto]

Think it might depend on city. XNGP was great for me in Shanghai but much less so in Xi'an (video to come soon). Need to try Huawei's latest system though.

[@HcL-no5pq]

@@InsideChinaAuto 哥，你说中文啊，我这英语还不明显？