C9 crash in playoffs / 100T look to repeat / V5 LPL champs? - Summoning Insight S5E11 (feat. Raz)

The first segment of Summoning Insight is brought to you by Esportsbet.io, the only esports cryptocurrency betting matrix. Use the following referral link to receive a 50% DEPOSIT BONUS up to $200: www.esportsbet.io/referral/in...
Join MonteCristo and Thorin with guest Barento "Raz" Mohammed, LCS analyst, as they preview the final weekend of the LCS playoffs, discuss C9's playoff collapse, predict whether Evil Geniuses/Team Liquid/100 Thieves will be the LCS champion, discuss the final three teams in the LPL playoffs, and more.
This episode was filmed on April 18th, 2022.
Come join the Insight on Esports Discord for in-depth discussion across esports: / discord
0:00:00 - Opening clip
0:00:25 - LPL playoffs discussion
0:21:54 - LEC roster rumors
0:37:43 - LCS Finals Tyler1 hype video reaction
0:55:54 - Raz intro + Cloud9
1:37:07 - Team Liquid vs 100 Thieves
2:13:24 - Evil Geniuses
2:22:16 - Final thoughts and predictions
2:28:08 - Viewer Questions: Possible good video game movies
2:31:40 - Most useful stats in esports
2:37:02 - Which English-speaking country has the best broadcast talent?
2:40:07 - Best small purchase you made recently
2:43:52 - Coach/staff of the split
2:45:00 - Anime or spicy food?
2:47:54 - Coaches in call during matches
2:50:36 - Conflicts of interest in esports
2:54:26 - Most unfortunately timed statement in esports
2:58:11 - Most overrated LoL/CS:GO team
3:02:05 - Tyler1 clone team vs pro teams
#LCS
#LoLEsports
#LoLPodcast
#ESBIntro

[@objmatt7071]

Scalabrine a former NBA player has a great quote which he says, “I am closer to Lebron than you are to me” when comparing the average player to pros and elite pros.

[@nuraby_9228]

Videos of Red Mamba bodying amateurs are hilarious.

[@bingobongo496]

Imagine comparing lebrick with the G.O.A.T

[@Habeev07]

Once again. Season 6 and 7 was peak league. Storylines and actually solid play. The REAL ISSUE Iis that Riot needs to !!!!!!!!!!!QUIT!!!!!!!!!! making so many BS champion kits and actually push old champs into the meta with buffs and reworks. WHEN THE FUCK HAVE WE SEEN AURELION SOL BTW?? THEN... the game wont seem so stale. People dont want quantity THEY WANT QUALITY. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK VIEWERSHIP WAS UP 50% WITH LS??? BC HE UNDERSTANDS THERE ARE 160 CHAMPIONS IN THE GAME AND NOT JUST THE 70ISH RIOT HAS IN A PERMA STATE OF OP. Make the game have actual variance and suspense and they will come. NOT RIDING THE BRAINDEAD CURTAILS OF TYLER 1 FANS.

[@Ciubelinus]

@@Habeev07 I don't appreciate your use of caps, but I do agree with you.

[@lanceelopezz223]

White Mamba

[@ShawnBlaque]

The TSM roasting never gets old lmao! Even in last place they can add some comedy to the league

[@Habeev07]

Once again. Season 6 and 7 was peak league. Storylines and actually solid play. The REAL ISSUE Iis that Riot needs to !!!!!!!!!!!QUIT!!!!!!!!!! making so many BS champion kits and actually push old champs into the meta with buffs and reworks. WHEN THE FUCK HAVE WE SEEN AURELION SOL BTW?? THEN... the game wont seem so stale. People dont want quantity THEY WANT QUALITY. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK VIEWERSHIP WAS UP 50% WITH LS??? BC HE UNDERSTANDS THERE ARE 160 CHAMPIONS IN THE GAME AND NOT JUST THE 70ISH RIOT HAS IN A PERMA STATE OF OP. Make the game have actual variance and suspense and they will come. NOT RIDING THE BRAINDEAD CURTAILS OF TYLER 1 FANS.

[@kpal17]

I really love the intro topic about production. Monte and Thorin really explains it in the most simplest and great way to understand. I hope that one day some highup at tencent look at them and gave them some power to produce a riot promo

[@hockeybuzz555]

Tyler1 grinds 10,000 games a season? Somebody get Jack on the phone. Looks like Cloud9 just found their next player.

[@Habeev07]

NOBODY PLAYS THAT MUCH. NOBODY.

[@samm.7342]

Hey man, I'm just happy that 3 NA home-grown talents made it to championship weekend in EG!

[@emceemikey]

This is a big win for those of us who want to support the players who actually represent us and grew up here. So glad eg took the chance on rookie players and am rooting for them all the way

[@TheLoos3Goos33]

1:02:09 - Raz just explained it Monte. Summit doesn't trust his GP against good teams. He only played it against GG cause he didn't respect them.

[@Gurpreet-sv5zg]

I mean Fudge said the same thing. He got to play LB because he played a bad team.

[@Habeev07]

Once again. Season 6 and 7 was peak league. Storylines and actually solid play. The REAL ISSUE Iis that Riot needs to !!!!!!!!!!!QUIT!!!!!!!!!! making so many BS champion kits and actually push old champs into the meta with buffs and reworks. WHEN THE FUCK HAVE WE SEEN AURELION SOL BTW?? THEN... the game wont seem so stale. People dont want quantity THEY WANT QUALITY. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK VIEWERSHIP WAS UP 50% WITH LS??? BC HE UNDERSTANDS THERE ARE 160 CHAMPIONS IN THE GAME AND NOT JUST THE 70ISH RIOT HAS IN A PERMA STATE OF OP. Make the game have actual variance and suspense and they will come. NOT RIDING THE BRAINDEAD CURTAILS OF TYLER 1 FANS.

[@Gurpreet-sv5zg]

@@Habeev07 They won't because LPL likes adhd game play that go kaboom and boom boom. Damage has skyrocketed in S8 and it won't change. They think deterring healing has made the game better but it made more reliable to blow up people. Riot know what they are doing and they are catering to the Chinese fan base.

[@Ghisteslohm139]

While I do think the Tyler1 hypevideo missed opportunities, part of their problems seem to come from them not knowing Tylers catchphrases. Directly the "sup sup" in the beginning for example is something every T1 viewer instantly recognized. Other parts seem more like just subjective things they disliked. For example I think its kinda cool they focused a lot on the crowd returning. As they mentioned T1 isnt a pro player so him talking more about the event fits better and it actually is something special to have the big crowds back. But what that video needs is - is another video to set up some hype around the actual players and teams. I enjoyed it, got me actually somewhat hyped :D

[@foxfoxes1225]

If you as a company think the most compelling thing about your competitive split finals is a non esports related streamers fanbase you have either lost the plot or dont know how to safe your league and viewer base. I think Tyler is funny and entertaining and im not blaming it on him just to be clear.

[@nuraby_9228]

@@foxfoxes1225 Riot just has no spine.

[@nuraby_9228]

Riot making a Tyler1 hypevideo for LCS finals is almost as pathetic as when they started inviting twitch screechers to their all-star game and the viewercount started dropping like a rock lmao

[@m4ng4n]

@@foxfoxes1225 "dont know how to safe your league and viewer base" congratz on realizing Riot actually doesn't give a shit about the more serious playerbase!

[@AONTrappy]

You know your region is fked when you are forced to use a streamer to represent the finals, the most prestigious tournament to generate any hype. You must say that it is quite a sad state of affairs to use a streamer that is not even remotely related to the pro scene at all. It is even funnier that they use a permabanned streamer whom still actively shts on the game/players which goes against the iron willed dogma that riotna has. If it were not for T1 and his tried and trued personality this sht region will succumb to its own illnesses, corporate greed and pc culture. While the promo is enjoyable to a certain extent they failed to represent and execute the promo for the bigger picture which is to be expected for a final.

[@nickmajora]

Sad to hear Monte doesn't think it'd be in Tyler1's best interest to clone himself 4 times and enter the LCS.

[@Even_Money]

Much philosophical.

[@Kinwika]

Banger

[@BigMusicFan147]

I liked the hype video for LCS. Reminded me of when the Super Bowl brings in the Rock

[@demondude15]

C9 getting 4th would've been acceptable if not for the manner in which it happened. they hard dominated most of the split but seemingly over night they fell apart completely, sure they beat GG 3-0, but that was expected of them. If the season went on, i dont think Cloud9 finish anywhere near 4th place. If however they'd been struggling also season and pull themselves up by the bootstraps, barely made playoffs and then managed to make it to 4th, that would be admirable. Instead the whole thing has been pitiful

[@Tovigonbar]

But who would then be fourth? Aint GG like the 5. Best team?

[@wrupnick]

Disagree, its pretty disgraceful for this roster to ever place behind EG especially given the split

[@dragonplayz6606]

GG has no mid laner, they need a replacement ASAP.

[@NhanNguyen-fs2hg]

@@wrupnick Well FlyQuest at least took a game from EG

[@zebrion5793]

Summit completely mental boomed and took the rest of the team with him. As good of a mechanical player as he is, he tilted everyone. If they had honest behind the scenes videos, Summit likely would've been in the same mindset Piglet was during "Breaking Point." His unwillingness to respect the coach's authority and his "my way or the highway" attitude screwed the whole team and their ability to play multiple styles.

[@MaskedPlayer514]

As someone that had a ton of fun memeing on C9's system I really resonate with the take Monte had about how they shouldn't have committed so hard to one person. makes a lot of sense considerig all that happened.

[@Reign274]

Dude that Tyler 1 video sounded like Dash talking, seriously I only imagined Dash talking

[@LettucePlate]

3:05:00 that's insane if it's even close to true. That's 11 hours of gameplay every day without fail. Even taking a month off that's 12.5 hours a day. Assuming 5 min queues 20 minute games. Which the averages are usually higher than that.

[@CanerasTV]

I'm surprised that people aren't comparing Summit to Huni. The import top laner who plays full aggro and either carries or ints.

[@varunreddy2106]

Huni however never goes from best player in the league to the biggest liability in the league over 1 single split. Huni is volatile sure but the range is much smaller than what Summit has shown

[@lildoggyj]

@@varunreddy2106 I know Huni had reignover on Fnatic and Immortals in season 5-6 so you can say that Reignover enabled Huni, but i’d also say Huni did very well those years where he was thought of as the best top laner in the league. He also did well on skt in spring 2017. It was after 2017 that Huni’s career has gone downhill because he went back to NA and has stayed with no success. I didn’t follow summit in LCK but let’s see how Summit turns out.

[@CanerasTV]

@@varunreddy2106 his closest would be 2016 Spring where he was All-Pro in the regular season where they went 17-1 to going 0-3 in their first playoff series where he brought out the Lucian top.

[@luminous3558]

Because huni isn't good. Summit didn't get worse, he just has a massive weakness that got exposed. If an NA top for some reason chooses to not pick a tank vs him they would get folded just like in regular split. Summit's lane isnt the issue in draft. If C9 would still use midlane to safely get enchanters into their comp alongside a jungle pick that benefits from it and can get semi funneled they would be fine even if summit gets countered. Currently their top loses and the rest does nothing because they are on standard picks and expect their top to carry.

[@jamescalder5115]

He isnt like Huni - A lot of Summits "Int" come off the back of him being perma hardcamped and counter picked every game. Huni just blindly pushes without a brain until he dies, there is a difference. Huni without Reignover isn't even close to the same player as Reignover basically shadowed him all game and dictated the teams macro decisions.

[@niko7496]

did they talk at all about the fudge int to give penta? i thought thorin was gonna lose his mind with how unsportsmanlike that was of fudge. especially when they can't even end the game there.

[@alibaki7318]

Funnily enough if Fudge didn't give the penta he would have died sooner and Danny would have ended the game. He actually wasted enough time to not let them end.

[@full-timepog6844]

he dies there if Danny just tells inspired and jojo to take it

[@wrupnick]

It’s nice how the people who have never done anything competitive in their life are willing to self identify with this take 🤣

[@full-timepog6844]

@@alibaki7318 c9 even got drake i think because eg wasted time with that.

[@niko7496]

​ @Ali Baki ye i know, for me it's about the attitude tho

[@harrymcnally4290]

Need someone with video editing skills to mash up the inspired leaving mid and jojo dying right after play with the Spider-Man movie when he lets the robber go and the robber immediately kills uncle Ben 😂

[@STRENGTH444]

Mikyx and razork to vitality is hype, they could genuinely contend with them changes

[@NoradNoxtus]

Always enjoy Raz on any talk show, great content

[@tysonforeal]

as an extra on the Scott pilgrim movie....ouch 🤣

[@SirLiamsBlade]

Max either needs to tell Summit what to play (and use a strict coaching culture instead of letting him derail these drafts) or they get rid of either Max or Summit. It is clear there is no buy in into good drafting from this team and they are doomed to fail.

[@kaltrouble9236]

Well I'm sure I think that Monte talked about this where Summit most likely will not listen to Max when it comes to drafting idea. The culture of eastern (or at least Korean) in which that age determine the hierarchy firmly made it that hard for Max to influence Summit's choice. Max is younger than Summit and he was never a pro player I think so that's two firm reason culture wise on why Summit probably won't listen to Max. Now on Max part, I remembered they said (Monte and Thoorin I think) that Max is so young for his role. The thing with that it takes experience to set up for the team properly. To make it worse, I know Max is a close friend to LS but LS handpicked this team not Max therefore the relationship between head coach and player are quite distant than before

[@berkbabo]

33:00 tbf Yamato lately said in his voice of yamato that he wants/wanted i dont know if he mispoke, stay with the same team because he thinks they definitly were the best

[@coybackus7665]

ornn? gragas? let's see some more of that renekton baby...

[@megamen7353]

I dont think MAD is gonna sell Elyoya. They have a very strong trio imo (Armut+Elyoya+Kaiser) and this split, individually they seemed better. For ex, Armut getting solo kills nearly every game, Elyoya 1v9'ing a lot of games and Kaiser being Kaiser lol. But Reeker was by far the worst Mid laner in LEC. I respect MAD for trying Reeker and giving him a chance but even in stats he is the worst in every area. So basically i believe just getting a good team player mid lane (Nisqy could be one ofc) would be enough for them to be a top 4 team with the current roster. Vitality on the other hand, needs to change a lot of shit because they didnt even deserve to be in play offs imo. They were there because MAD lions were playing without a mid entire split. For FNC i think they need a better top laner since Wunder retired this game long ago as it seems. I really dont remember when was the last time i heard Wunders name in a fight. Broken Blade 1v9's his games for G2. Odo and Armut are very good weakside players and they do great shit in teamfights. Even Adam ints and we hear his name because of that lol. Wunder basically is just useless. No negative effects but no positive effects either. League changed a lot, if you ask me now, i would get a decent player who can effect the game in teamfights (like odo, armut as i said before) over a mechanical god or smt. FNC cant play together, when they do they are the best team in LEC no arguments there but when they cant, they seem like a headless chicken who roams randomly around the map. So imo having a good teamfighting Top can change stuff in FNC or they can keep the smae roster but need to develop their team play.

[@Dardobul]

Coaches in voicechat makes it an RTS, totally agree, doesn't it make it pay to win not even a proper rts? Whoever buys rookie to pilot midlaner has A clear competitive advantage over whoever gets milica for example 😂

[@EpicVideoMaster11]

I don't think Jensen would go to C9 again

[@goneator]

I would've suggested the tittle Crush9 in playoffs.....

[@ebile]

i mostly just dont eat spicy food because it gives me a real nasty cold and hurts my stomach for some reason :(

[@FireEatingNinja]

For the amount of money they paid Tyler1 they probably could have done one of those worlds animated videos. Could have employed multiple artists maybe musicians. Plus those videos are immortalized on their youtube where they bring in more Ad revenue on KZbin. Crazy choice.

[@bivmike]

Raz keeps it professional love it. He to me is a goat caster

[@NhanNguyen-fs2hg]

MonteCristo is so biased toward C9 it's funny lmao

[@AyChildPlease]

thorin too because "what he knows about the situation" comes from Monte lol.

[@ShawnBlaque]

Found the TSM fan lmao

[@dylanroessler6810]

Monte is not biased he just knows a lot about C9 and jack because he’s worked with c9 and so has his wife

[@carlosrazier433]

@@dylanroessler6810 isn’t that a conflict of interest ;)

[@OMAR-vk9pi]

@@carlosrazier433 not if you know what it means

[@moggreg]

The anime question should be either anime or only the lcs for your whole life, no other esport either

[@coybackus7665]

mass effect movie?

[@yungclout9413]

humanoids game 4 vs rogue genuinely looked like match fixing

[@xxRockyBxx]

Why didn't C9 play Darshan as a sub to play the tanks like Ornn or Gragas?

[@kaltrouble9236]

That would require Blaber or Berserker to start carry out game in bot lane. Now I think that was the idea when they put Isles in cuz he was I think a better laner than Winsome but it wasnt enough to push C9 as their win condition

[@xxRockyBxx]

@@kaltrouble9236 From what I watched in Academy, Darshan can play strong-side too if needed. But their C9a best strat was to let Darshan be the flexible piece that can play whatever the team needs and put Malice on a comfort/carry pick. Honestly, as fans, we don't know what's happening backstage. Mabey it kills the team atmosphere/dynamic with two Koreans on the team by benching one Korean, you piss off the other one.

[@kaltrouble9236]

@@xxRockyBxx now let's talk about being in Max's shoes, this will be like subbing winsome out for isles but much more drastic and the changes in team style (which probably they haven't practiced yet) will causes bigger downfall. Now this show did say that since they changed it to what LS imagine a good team would be which caused their downfall when they try to revert back to their old system, it's a shame cuz LS would scrim academy and main player together more often which probably can lead to Darshan being subbed in. With LS out, I don't think that trend is continuing

[@Gurpreet-sv5zg]

@@xxRockyBxx Academy =//= LCS. The best academy team in the regular split got murdered by a mediocre LCS team. Darshan playing tanks does not answer C9 problem. Who generates pressure? C9 has 3 losing lanes now with Darshan. Playing a tank does not stop Fudge from being useless at mid or blaber PVEing the early game.

[@ilcavalieredellupo4339]

2:01:00

[@StephenG78]

It confuses me why they praise C9 for “success” when NA is notorious for doing so poorly internationally. It’s like praising how amazing a team is for winning a conference title when they never actually win the championship. Yes, C9 creates high selling NA talent but none of that talent is really comparable to most talent being cultivated in the LCK or LEC. In my mind C9 gets praised a lot for mediocrity and they’re so comfortable being mediocre that they’ll never win an international title.

[@Brady53023]

Theyve outperformed every NA team EVERY time theyve been to worlds previously. Getting out of groups is an accomplishment for NA

[@StephenG78]

@@Brady53023 Why is the bar set so low is my question. Are we as a region just okay to fiddle our thumbs and accept mediocrity? Any professional who wants to be the best and win at the highest level doesn’t just go “hey, I might not be the best but I’m better than the next couple guys so that’s okay”.

[@kaltrouble9236]

@@StephenG78 I think from what I heard is because of the Culture of NA where when it comes to competitive unless it's a sport where NA dominate the sport, they won't invest much in improvement (the org and the player). I think this was evident with what happened with Champion Queue, the one thing pro player been begging for a while, now they are complaining on why Champion Queue feels bad for them

[@SirLiamsBlade]

Honestly its a joke that C9 is "so successful". If you are fine with being the 3-4th best region then good for you but I have no interest in watching that storyline. Monty and Thorin talk so much about storylines but settling for 5-8th team in the world (which is the real competition IMO) is so weak and uninteresting and I think you can see the lack of interest growing in LCS.

[@NhanNguyen-fs2hg]

NA is already bad and if people in the scene keep this kind of mentality, they will always just be mediocre. The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result. At least LS was trying to do something different.

[@CxerRy96]

What's up with Zven's green card btw, this is his 5th year in NA

[@raymondslylopez5806]

Umm im not finished to the vod but based on the sources i find, u need green card strictly for not being counted as import slot. Since the trump's administration, its been held back by rules or whatnot and it is not fixed by biden. It will take a long time so thats why summday from 100T is so lucky to get green card

[@dragonplayz6606]

@@raymondslylopez5806 didn’t core get it within 3 years or whatever.

[@raymondslylopez5806]

@@dragonplayz6606 im not updated in the happenings but core got it earlier than summday, idk know why because im not close or any connections to them. I only know the shallow things about league.

[@dragonplayz6606]

@Peter P maybe, all I can say for certain is, his wife looks like she’s from Asian ethnicity for sure.

[@OMAR-vk9pi]

He needs to support

[@SajidKhan-eh5jy]

Thorin says more ''F...ckin' then Fifty shades Trilogy,,,,

[@swaggyd4496]

damn haven't watched in a while but thorin gettin thicc

[@coybackus7665]

I like the T1 hype video. T1 has become iconic for better or for worse lol. I feel like T1 is a better representation of NA league of legends anyways. Our teams get crushed internationally and never have a chance to win. Having more players would have been a good idea. I agree with the take that c9 players being on the video was a flop.

[@fluffyncute063]

Wow guys just tell us how much you hate LS. But it's ok C9 and their systems will surely win internationally. Bahahaha!

[@Habeev07]

Once again. Season 6 and 7 was peak league. Storylines and actually solid play. The REAL ISSUE Iis that Riot needs to !!!!!!!!!!!QUIT!!!!!!!!!! making so many BS champion kits and actually push old champs into the meta with buffs and reworks. WHEN THE FUCK HAVE WE SEEN AURELION SOL BTW?? THEN... the game wont seem so stale. People dont want quantity THEY WANT QUALITY. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK VIEWERSHIP WAS UP 50% WITH LS??? BC HE UNDERSTANDS THERE ARE 160 CHAMPIONS IN THE GAME AND NOT JUST THE 70ISH RIOT HAS IN A PERMA STATE OF OP. Make the game have actual variance and suspense and they will come. NOT RIDING THE BRAINDEAD CURTAILS OF TYLER 1 FANS.

[@jamescalder5115]

Season 6 and 7 was not Peak Lol tbf - I mean it depends on your definition of Peak as well I guess. Season 6 and 7 was peak Korean LoL where Korean teams were literally unquestioned. China was bad and EU was basically playing for 3rd and 4th every year. Season 8 and 9 were probably the most exciting because it actually felt like all regions could compete for titles and not just Korean teams going undefeated through almost every single year. Season 8 and 9 for me personally was the Peak. You realise T1 is one of the most flexible players out there and constantly bags on the fact that NA proplayers dont try anything different. T1 is actually smart and understands the game despite his persona of ALPHA GIGA CHAD. No they wont come - The reason viewership went up with LS is because a lot of Korean fans tuned into NA LCS because of LS, Summit and Beserker. LoL is dying in NA because people have no interest - Players, watchers nobody cares anymore it has no personality, no real faces other than Bjerg and even then he has been quiet and Most people have realised NA pros really dont give a shit and imports that go to NA care even less so why should people watch a region that is full of players who have no desire to improve.

[@checkmate7345]

Honestly if you were ever going to blame LS for anything is that he's chiefly responsible for putting this team together. He took way to many risks with the team and undervalued many of their existing assets and over valued too many prospective ones. I think he over valued bringing in a rookie like Winsome who clearly has fallen away due to the rigors of competition right now and brought in a rookie bot laner who is good but I doubt he's that many levels above Zven. Is he worth an import slot right now in his career not at all. Yes Bersrker might have an insane skill ceiling but will he reach that ceiling in NA? It's as Raz said letting Vulcun go to one of your competitors has been a massive school boy howler from C9 and the replacement they brought in was an amateur who hadn't even competed in the LCK who they had to bench after one b05. Moving Fudge who was probably the best NA top laner last season to mid was also another massive misstep. Keeping him in top lane should've been the play and then seek to hire one of the many available mids at the time such as Nisqy, POE, Jensen. Too much change too soon can be too disruptive and detrimental to the cohesion of the team. Personally I would kept the roster together let Perkz move on then look for another mid laner and leave the rest of the team intact until off season. Though If C9 really had to make swaps then I'd say replace Zven with Berserker and hire another mid laner then let that be all the changes made at least for this split. I would compare what LS did to C9's previous roster to what Regi did to the TSM Roster when they had Hauntzer, Sven,Bjergsen, Doublelift, Biofrost this was a team that was comfortably winning NA LCS. But Regi in a desperate bid to try and make the team more competitive internationally he actually made the team worse and regressed the roster which to some extent has happened here with C9.

[@lashalomidze4713]

Did Thorin just compare TSM fans to Soviet population? 😂

[@robelbeyenemayzser5312]

Did thorin just say if u looked at rng on paper before this split u would think “ no way they are in the final” ??? LMFAOOO 😭😂😂😂. people where saying RNG is a favourite before the split even started 💀

[@nissleycrunch9097]

This was the one line I didn't get. Like they upgraded in the off-season lol

[@team3am149]

Thorin always forgets plenty of details about the LPL. This was, on paper, one of the best RNG rosters ever.

[@robelbeyenemayzser5312]

@@nissleycrunch9097 thorin says some dumb shit during these podcasts man 😭😭😭

[@jamescalder5115]

If he said it about V5 then I get it but not RNG... they upgraded mid and upgraded Top like they were a favourite for the year alongside TES and EDG.

[@70chaoswalking07]

Yeah wish they had a proper LPL expert on like they do for the other regions. E.g would be a banger if they had Lyric, Hysterics, Dagda on

[@kalyan-gr3dz]

20:20

[@dnel29]

For the amount of money the players are getting paid, they should just pilot the champions given to them in draft and they should not have a say in draft. "Comfort pick" or "I don't want to play this champ" is just inexcusable at this level of play. They most likely are proficient in most champs so there should be a draft coach so that if a draft is bad the blame is on the coach and the players just pilot and focus on the gameplay. This will enhance the level of play as shown in c9 series that they are just losing the game in draft. The games are unwinnable just because of the champions. The professionals should be professionals, not spoiled kids that won't play a pick (that can win them the game) just because they don't like it. It's just stupid to pay the players this much if they are not aiming to win (they hinder themselves in the draft and this lowers the winning % they may have, assuming they play at the same level as the other team).

[@luminous3558]

Yeah but outside of C9 the players are justified in making their drafts. Most coaches know less about the game than a player.

[@StrongestCreatureOnEarth]

1:27:57 Raz STONE COLDS Thorin on this joke here

[@lanceelopezz223]

Bundle o’ sticks

[@Eric-nx6cp]

Bruh what was that terrible Grinder joke at 1:28:00?

[@lanceelopezz223]

L

[@CarlosCarlangas]

It didn't land

[@user-li3gl3du8t]

Tyler1 legit talks shit on pro league all the time lol

[@00HoODBoy]

raz is a legend

[@08blaze83]

@MontiCristo Can I get an Immortal Gates of Pyre game key that would be sick I tried to back but got closed before I could Love the show Thanks

[@Somatic369]

The real fuck-up in the situation is whoever thought that LS coming to be a part of Jack's authoritarian dictatorship C9 (which yes, is proven to work well in NA) would be a good idea. If something sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

[@kitsuneandcake]

From what I heard, I don't think I'd want to claim that Jack is the authoritarian one

[@deviantnia]

Shirley

[@PureGaming1845]

idk i think we're giving C9 (Jack) a little to much credit here. The team started failing as soon as LS pretty much left right? so when you have the anchor in place and that breaks the whole ship can't be stopped from crashing into a island and sinking. LS i personally believe would have made this better and we're all assuming especially monte in this case that LS was not removed due to any other reason than not gelling well. This if anything IS C9s fault for the results that were produced. Which i highly doubt removing berserker is the right play, Jensen from what we heard from him in the DL stream doesn't look like he wants to come back. In fact Jensen LEFT the organization for this exact reason any supports that they have are terrible and there is no mids that they can actually grab that is worth a damn especially in NA. You might find some top laners, i don't think sneaky will come back either so you're out of luck there as well and switching out berserker who HAS been performing very well is stupid...you at least want 1 strong laner and berserk covers that and zven doesn't make the cut. idk what C9 can do but yes you say they have a lot of options but are their options even good?

[@Gurpreet-sv5zg]

No. The team wasn't as good with or without LS. C9 did better without LS. The down fall was when tanks emerged in the meta and no one was able to pick up the slack of Summit.

[@PureGaming1845]

@@Gurpreet-sv5zg C9 did not do better without LS. Especially we have no idea IF they would do better with LS since we can't compare 2 weeks to a whole 8 extra weeks since LS was fired. You can't say they did better especially after losing LS they lost to CLG C.L.G. that's not better that is worse. However we do know they did WORSE when LS left had about 4-5 games of wins (garbage teams tbh aside from TL). Then they went on a massive losing streak even through playoffs aside from GG which is horrible to begin with. and tanks emerged? you mean ornn only? gragas is a counter to gwen. Ornn has only been in play for about 2 weeks....he just showed up. Summit started doing poorly before that.

[@Gurpreet-sv5zg]

@@PureGaming1845 Weird how you can make the conclusion that the team got worse after LS left (2 weeks) but now you are flip flopping and saying it's not right to judge LS despite his 2 weeks of game. Don't flip flop on me. You said it. Stand by your original stance. You do realize they lost to CLG immediately after LS got fired right. So it's okay to not use LS 2 week as a sample size but it's okay to use a singular game immediately after LS got fired. Interesting. Don't think anyone in the stats field would use a haphazard selection to make a conclusion. Malphite? Do you even watch LCS? Malphite was the pivotal pick that stumped Summit. This is kind of embarrassing. Maybe watch the game to jargon your memory?

[@PureGaming1845]

@@Gurpreet-sv5zg @Gurpreet I mean I am standing by my argument. We know they did worse after LS left they went 1-1 after his departure. And essentially won 5 games or so but after even through playoffs lost every single game. We can't say they would do worse or better if LS stayed. However, we do know they won 3 games with LS and went 1-1 after LS left. So they did by that stat do worse, wether they would do worse (the same as now) or better with LS is up in the air. If we want to ignore immediately after his departure then ok they went about even in wins. Then they plummeted to failing. C9 was really the only team in LCS that played malphite and they picked him once. And summit played well into the matchup which he didn't do bad it was after that week where summit started playing bad. But of course I don't think the whole team was playing well at all.

[@luminous3558]

@@Gurpreet-sv5zg seethe clown. They did better with LS and wouldve been a more coherrent team had he stayed. After LS left they had summit fold a bunch of NA toplaners into chairs while displaying horrid drafting.

[@gageadavis]

Raz does not seem keen on Thorin

[@livvw]

I really think C9 lose Summit and Berserker in the offseason. I don't see how they manage to make these players work in their team. Ocean soul is one of the most overrated souls in the game, unless you are actually sidelaning either 1/3/1 or 1/4 its useless. Wont be surprised if finals is 100T vs EG. TL are massively overrated

[@dylanroessler6810]

I think berserker can work if he wants to stay in NA, he’s young and not a veteran like most other Korean imports

[@Habeev07]

Once again. Season 6 and 7 was peak league. Storylines and actually solid play. The REAL ISSUE Iis that Riot needs to !!!!!!!!!!!QUIT!!!!!!!!!! making so many BS champion kits and actually push old champs into the meta with buffs and reworks. WHEN THE FUCK HAVE WE SEEN AURELION SOL BTW?? THEN... the game wont seem so stale. People dont want quantity THEY WANT QUALITY. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK VIEWERSHIP WAS UP 50% WITH LS??? BC HE UNDERSTANDS THERE ARE 160 CHAMPIONS IN THE GAME AND NOT JUST THE 70ISH RIOT HAS IN A PERMA STATE OF OP. Make the game have actual variance and suspense and they will come. NOT RIDING THE BRAINDEAD CURTAILS OF TYLER 1 FANS.

[@Dardobul]

I love how much Thorin hates us. His pain and outrage fuels us collectively 😂

[@seradew8103]

I hope Razork and Kaiser join Vitality and Elyoya goes to Fnatic.

[@Serenity-117]

Chinese nepotism/cronyism has to be OP in the LPL for these bum players hahaha! Thanks for the great content again. Cheers!

[@AyChildPlease]

Graves didn't build eclipse collector. he built eclipse ldr as 2 items which is common and GOOD vs tanks. tell me you don't play the game without telling me you don't play the game. bwipo just misplayed repeatedly. monte is so cringe.

[@Dardobul]

Mathematically they are items that don't go well together. vs tanks the eclipse lethality is wasted, vs squishies the ldr passive and %pen are wasted. In a pro game, you know what targets you will be fighting. Good build for silver soloq though!

[@AyChildPlease]

@@Dardobul eclipse mythic passive is % armor pen, the item also does % max hp damage. it's just flat out wrong to say the item isn't good vs tanks. bwipo just misplayed on graves. no graves player would build differently vs tanks because it's literally his best build vs tanks. at least know what the items do if you want to have a discussion about them.

[@Dardobul]

@@AyChildPlease it gives 4% pen per legendary, so at 2 items it gives 4%. That is multiplicatively added to the pen from LDR, so you actually only get a shade under 3% extra pen. for graves being ranged, you also get less %hp dmg and a smaller shield compared with a melee champ. Also also, because of the way the pellets scale with crit, and the fact you get more hpin the shield and in raw stats to go with his free armour, shieldbow ldr is strictly better vs tanks with armour than eclipse ldr. If it was a HP tank, say a Mundo rushing titanic warmogs(for an extreme example), you would be right in saying eclipse ldr is the way to go. I find it ironic that you tell me to know about items, while clearly not reading the items yourself. I think this makes you what monte would term a "nephew"?

[@AyChildPlease]

@@Dardobul you could not be more wrong. go watch any high elo Graves players and show me them building shieldbow vs tanks lol. thanks for the laugh though.

[@alexg4711]

Also for germans fuck is just a normal word. People use it on tv all the time.

[@Semiazas_TV]

Mushrooms for kids +1

[@CxerRy96]

The stupid LCS hype video would have been 10x more hype is Ct.Flowers did it, his voice is much better and he commands the respect of people who actually watch the esport of LoL...Tyler1 fans are not fans of League as an esports, let's be real, they're fans of his personality and how he reenacts their shitty experiences with the awful game that is (non 5 vs 5 premade) LoL

[@nuraby_9228]

The funniest part is that Tyler1 fans will rage endlessly about toxic players in their games while admiring and trying to emulate Tyler1 lmao. Negative self-awareness

[@robelbeyenemayzser5312]

@@nuraby_9228 his reformed, Tyler is literally no where near his old self lmao.

[@CxerRy96]

yeah apparently he's not toxic in game but that wasn't my point, I was talking about how his entertainment value is organic rage at the frustrating game that is random 5 players quing up and trying to win in a team game because it resonates with people Every time he gets some stupid one shot on himself and starts yelling like "what the fuck riot" I honestly get quite a good laugh out of it because it's how I would react too But the thing is the crowd of people who tune in to watch him do that won't tune in to Riot's super calm and professional broadcast of an actual 5v5 game

[@robelbeyenemayzser5312]

@@CxerRy96 I mean the guy is literally the face of league. I don’t understand why riot got Tyler to do that vid tho.

[@justin9744]

Raz is terrible.

[@dipn6243]

Thorin is esports Keemstar, whenever people don’t go out of their way to make friends with him, he will always make them look bad. I definitely think Max Waldos smacking head into brick wall draft style was just spectacular losing at champ select every game. LS definitely wouldn’t have had an impact on anything Clueless

[@ryanv8783]

people who down play 100t confuse me. why are they so underrated. 100t are just as good as TL "on paper" How do you get paid to analyze the game and say its a massive disappointment if TL lose to 100t? 100t are a good team. so fucking weird. Stop saying this "on paper" bullshit. the regular season doesn't matter as long as you are good for playoffs

[@jamescalder5115]

Because 100t do not have the same level of players that TL do. "On paper" they are not as good as TL thats why people underplay them. FBI and Huhi are not as Good as Hans and CoreJJ. Abbedagge is not as good as Bjergsen on paper... TL have the pedigree that 100t don't and thats why it was a shock. Not only that its the regular season - A team finishes first overall you would expect them to beat a team that finished 3rd.

[@kaltrouble9236]

The reason for me is that if you study 100T style, they NEED to stomp team early in the game otherwise they don't win much. They basically brute force their win and it has been their style by couple of years. The thing we expect from TL on paper is that the player are good enough to basically endure the early game and just become a better team in the mid game

[@carlosrazier433]

@@kaltrouble9236 Well said

[@luminous3558]

Because 100t is a team that has not improved since last year. They still play their 1 style that works and other teams let themselves get rolled over. Losing to 100t proves that whatever effort or money that team put in wasn't worth it. They will go to msi or worlds lose in groups and go home.

[@TheLoos3Goos33]

I guess Thorin doesn't understand what a joke is now. I doubt most people who joked 'lul bet C9 wishes they had LS still' actually thought C9 believed that. Did you really think those jokes were said in seriousness or did you just want to feel like you're smart?

[@LikeACrouton]

I assume the jokes you're referencing are from twitch chat and memes. Thorin's probably referencing C9 reddit threads and long KZbin comments where people do actually think that, since any time he's referenced community sentiment in the past, it's from those 2 places.

[@carlosrazier433]

What kind of joke is that 😂. For uninformed people that’s just an average take. Only insiders would know that LS wasn’t going to work out

[@Gurpreet-sv5zg]

Tbh with the cultist I don't think anything they say are jokes. They are dumb enough to believe picking Soraka/Ivern mid will somehow catch Chovy/Faker off guard to the point they will lose lane LOL.

[@Habeev07]

Once again. Season 6 and 7 was peak league. Storylines and actually solid play. The REAL ISSUE Iis that Riot needs to !!!!!!!!!!!QUIT!!!!!!!!!! making so many BS champion kits and actually push old champs into the meta with buffs and reworks. WHEN THE FUCK HAVE WE SEEN AURELION SOL BTW?? THEN... the game wont seem so stale. People dont want quantity THEY WANT QUALITY. WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK VIEWERSHIP WAS UP 50% WITH LS??? BC HE UNDERSTANDS THERE ARE 160 CHAMPIONS IN THE GAME AND NOT JUST THE 70ISH RIOT HAS IN A PERMA STATE OF OP. Make the game have actual variance and suspense and they will come. NOT RIDING THE BRAINDEAD CURTAILS OF TYLER 1 FANS.