Install a TCS Keep-Alive with a Loksound Select Direct Sound Decoder

Special thanks to Streamlined Backshop Services for the good info: www.sbs4dcc.com...
Welcome back once again,
This is my first attempt at a Keep-Alive install, and it turned out great. This 2010-release Athearn Genesis SD70ACe ran as if it had Athearn's proprietary technology: no-wheel electrical pickup. I was about to give up and see if I could sell it off to someone who would enjoy tearing it apart and replacing all of the internals, but I figured I could just patch up the problem with some good ol' capacitance. And, as you can see, it definitely did the trick. Enjoy!
-Cam

[@DavidHughesPiano]

How did you know which solder pad points on the sound decoder to apply the keep-alive's two wires to? This is always the mystery to me. Thank you.

[@NEC_Amtrak]

Nice work. May I ask what AWG wire you use when wiring in add-on decoders and full board replacement decoders? And is it the same AWG for motors, speakers, and LEDS, or do you use the larger AWG for the motors, etc.? I'm getting ready to wire up a LokSound 5 DCC Direct board with built in Keep Alive.

[@dynamicloco2186]

Very nice and easy to understand! Thank you.

[@Form44208]

Well done! I really believe in these for locomotive operation. Stalls are very, very, rare now.

[@truebras]

Thanks, It worked pretty well on my custom built/kitbashed EMD export model. Just installed a KA 1.

[@FGLKPaul]

Glad to see you got that Ace working aster the head ache it gave you. I actually just installed esu and led's in my genesis Ace a couple months ago. Only trouble I've been having is that it's a NS unit and the cv's to program the ditch light to flash properly have been a pain!

[@railfan220]

Yeah, I'm sure that's annoying. Programming ESU decoders without a Lokprogrammer is a bit annoying, but I'll accept that pain for the superior sound files and functionality. -Cam

[@nicksanto882]

Hi Railfan, we both have Athearn Genesis ACEs. We both like LokSound. A much easier and safer way to wire up a stay alive of your choice would be to use a Decoder Buddy and a 21-pin decoder by any manufacturer. It’s an NMRA standard configuration that the manufacturers use. Take a look at www.nixtrainz.com for some more information. The other nice thing about the Decoder Buddy is that there is an 8 output small connector board for lights. The outputs are identical, different boards are available for LEDs, bulbs or LEDs that have resistors installed inline already. The connector board detaches from the mother board so the shell can be detached from the frame. You did a great job on this locomotive. You also did a great video! Thanks for sharing! Enjoy your locomotive!

[@What_If_We_Tried]

Nicksanto882: Thanks for commenting about Decoder Buddy. Question: Does attaching a TCS capacitor pack invalidate the ESU Loksound warranty? I'm in the process of building my first layout - now that I have the space - although I bought several HO scale locomotives a few years ago.

[@2011Maynard]

Did you disconnect the keep alive before programming the CV’s. I’ve read elsewhere that this is risky with ESU’s if you don’t. Anyone feel free to reply if you know….

[@EntertainmentWorldz]

great video bro

[@FKHTrump2024]

I’ve heard that tcs KA s can burn up a esu loksound when programming have you had any trouble with this? I’m wondering can you still do advanced consisting with a keep alive hooked up without hurting it because that’s kind of a lot of CVS to program at once

[@elsdp-4560]

THANK YOU...for sharing.

[@rccosplay3249]

I'm trying to add a K4 to a Soundtraxx eco. any suggestions, as it doesn't look like yours... 😕 somthing about bridge rectifier???

[@taylorbaggarleyunionpacifi5399]

Looks awesome my freind your doing awesome job I most say you became good friends in life I want thank you for being awesome

[@railfan220]

Thanks a lot bud! I appreciate the kind words, and I always enjoy hearing from you. -Cam

[@taylorbaggarleyunionpacifi5399]

@@railfan220 your welcome my freind cam your really good skills

[@rccosplay3249]

Well, it's about time for me to get this! I have a bachmann SD2 switcher that just absolutely. Quits on turnouts, 7 out of 10 times! 😠

[@crsrdash-840b5]

What is a SD2? Is this a European style locomotive?

[@rccosplay3249]

@@crsrdash-840b5 It's the ALCO SD-2 Switcher locomotive, short wheel base. It has the cab all the way to one end. Bachmann makes it with soundtraxx DCC sound.

[@crsrdash-840b5]

@@rccosplay3249 strange. I know Alco made the S-2 and S-1 switchers, but never heard of a SD version.

[@rccosplay3249]

@@crsrdash-840b5 Yeah, ALCO S-2 Switcher. ✔

[@crsrdash-840b5]

@@rccosplay3249 okay. im glad we got that straighten out.

[@SeaboardCentral]

Great info. Would it be the same for the ESU Current Keeper?

[@ralgith]

No. ESU uses a 3-wire design. IIRC there is a plug on the light board for it. At least for the V4s and Select series. I may be mistaken on that, but ESU provides good instructions for it on their website so you should simply go look :)

[@railfan220]

So sorry for the late reply. I haven't gotten to anyone's comments yet because I've been busy. Anyway, if you're talking about the ESU Power Pack, they have a 3-wire design like Dylan said. The link in the description has some info on that. If you're referring to the Soundtraxx Current Keeper, I would think it would work the same way as their diagrams show the blue wire being positive and the black wire (sometimes shown as dashed yellow/green) as negative. However, I've never installed either of those. Hope that helps! I'm certainly no expert. -Cam

[@ralgith]

Cam, you are correct on both counts. I just don't recall if the ESU board has the plug or not. As for the Soundtraxx one, you have it right: it would be the exact same install as this TCS install is.

[@BNSF5621]

Do your Headlights slightly dim when you take the loco off the track? I just installed am ESU powerpack maxi in my unit and my lights will dim a bit when track power is cut but the loco will still be functional. Just curious if I'm the only one with this issue.

[@railfan220]

Good question. My recollection is that they do a little bit, but I'll have to double check. I know they do on some of my locomotives, but this is the only one I've personally installed. Can't remember if it does that. -Cam

[@BNSF5621]

@@railfan220 ok cool. I'm assuming that's a normal thing to happen with the lights. What about BEMF on your locos? I only install Loksound in my units and usually speed match and consist them without even changing the BEMF settings from default. I'm hearing the locos can fight each other with BEMF but I haven't noticed anything yet with mine. Is it ok to leave the default settings on? I'm assuming so, but just thought I'd ask

[@railfan220]

@@BNSF5621 Good question. I actually want to do a video on this because I've had quite a few thoughts in this area. Short answer: yes, it's totally fine to speed match without adjusting BEMF/load control. I'd say this is what 99.9% of people do, and it won't hurt the locomotives without adjusting BEMF. With that said, adjusting BEMF down tends to make running consists a bit more realistic, and also allows the opportunity for reliable DPU operations. When you turn BEMF down, the "requested" speed and the "actual" wheel speed become detached from one another. Assume that 1 speed step = 1 scale mph. With BEMF turned up from the factory, a consist with the throttle set to 40 speed steps will go 40mph no matter the grade or load. In fact, it could even stall out from the weight, but the wheel speed will always be the requested speed because the decoder will give the motor 100% of the available amperage to make that happen. With BEMF turned way down, a consist with a requested speed of 40 speed steps may only be going 10 mph up a grade with a heavy load. This is often the case on my layout where there are steep grades. If you think about it, this is a more realistic set up because the engineer (you) is directly in control of the prime mover and thus tractive effort. On the prototype, the engineer sets the throttle notch, which sets prime mover rpm, which controls tractive effort at the wheels. This is all independent of speed. So, with BEMF turned down, you get a closer approximation of train handling because the engineer must be trusted to compensate for the grades to maintain a particular speed. Also, with BEMF turned down, you can have locomotives that aren't even speed matched super well run with each other because they'll only pull as much as your throttle input tells them. So, the motor will encounter resistance and do nothing about it, whereas with BEMF, the locomotive will apply much or all of its possible tractive effort to counter that resistance. As you can imagine, this is advantageous for running DPUs at the end of the train. *****However, the CVs to control BEMF/load control on ESU decoders (mainly CV 54 and 56) respond differently depending on which decoders you're using.***** Adjusting BEMF on LokSound Select decoders is almost pointless because of how unpredictable it is. Adjusting BEMF on V4 and V5 decoders, however, is a breeze, and it reacts exactly as the manual suggests it will. I know that was more than you were asking for, but that's pretty much a summary of my experiences. Hopefully that helps! -Cam

[@BNSF5621]

@@railfan220 that is actually an answer I've been looking for! Thank you that makes complete sense, I typically run mine just to let them cruise around the layout so I guess that's where bemf will work in my favor. I will definitely mess with turning it off though and see how that works. With that being said I have one last question, having loads or resistance I'm the motor without bemf won't necessarily damage them right? I have this idea that I will burn or damage the motors with even having the slightest load on them. Might sound dumb as I know they are most likely built to handle loads lol! But just wanted to see your input on it. Thanks!

[@BNSF5621]

What LEDs are you using for this ACe? Im having a hard time finding some with a decent golden tone

[@csxbaltimoresubdivision7746]

You should have used a connector, you wouldn't be a to change sound files, great video.....

[@drewzdrew27]

I was wondering how using a 3rd party KA unit would effect programing. Ive read that the ESU KAs shut themselves off when they detect they are on a programming track. Aside from the changing of sound files, any other "Gotchas" when doing this? I'm thinking of using some NCE KA's with the ESU select decoders on some WalthersProto locos.

[@csxbaltimoresubdivision7746]

No just put barrel connectors or sound trax,and unplug it before charging sounds, all CV's changes are fine with it plugged in......

[@railfan220]

I did consider that, but since this is just a Select decoder, I don't really intend to change files. I think the horn and prime mover sound about as good as I could expect. If it were a GEVO, I might do that because I'm always waiting for them to come out with an updated version or to upload my own intercooler fan sounds on a V4.0.

[@ralgith]

Loke, not Lock... As in Locomotive...

[@Barney-hk3es]

I though ESU decoder came already equiped with a, current keeper, keep alive ECT ECT. ?

[@AbelG8781]

Negative sir.

[@Barney-hk3es]

Scale trains must have added a keep alive to their locomotives then. The have lok sound and KA Just figure that out about a month ago when I bought a rapido with lok sound and it did not have a keep alive