Installing 2 Tesla Wall Connectors in Load Sharing Configuration

[@codycurry91]

As an electrician you did a good job. Just FYI you’re not supposed to cut EMT pipe with that cutter you used. That cutter is for soft pipe like copper. Using that cutter actually makes the inside of the conduit wall close in and become smaller. It can also cut your wire while pulling. I was checking out your video because I’ve never had to install 2 chargers in one garage. You did the right thing getting the shielded cable because you are not supposed to put regular low voltage wire in the same pipe as high voltage wire, it causes interference. That’s why it’s shielded. Over all good job.

[@FCT70]

An inspector would fail this installation for that reason. You cannot under any circumstance run LV cable in the same conduit with line voltage cable regardless of shielding. Also, That pipe cutter is a disaster waiting to happen as well as it creates a sharp edge. Other than that, this home owner did a nice job. That's what makes the other two errors that much more glaring.

[@alive2990]

I was told you can not install two charger on the same circuit. Is that true ?

[@jolamc]

⁠@@alive2990load sharing is one of the major selling points of the Tesla Wall Connector

[@fgaryam]

Well done. Enough detail without rambling; so I watched the whole thing and now confident I can do mine.

[@marksweeting24]

As an electrician that specializes in EV charger installs, overall I like what you have done. However, where I am, a permit and inspection is required. For a disconnect, it is not the amperage but if the breaker is in line of sight to the units. If not, a disconnect is required. Some have questioned putting the com cable in the conduit. This is a common question/issue with inspectors. Because the industry is relatively new, many inspectors default to the installation manual. If it states guidelines for the com cable, that is acceptable. What most manuals do state is the need for 90 degree copper which your thhn is rated for. Romex is not rated for 90 but is used by many.

[@ajcarter8456]

I wonder if newer wall chargers make this video incorrect? Any thoughts?

[@nelsonrothermel]

Gen 3 uses WiFi to communicate between chargers so the shielded communications wire is unnecessary. I think the rest would be valid. The manual which is available online explains how it all works.

[@DavidTrejo]

Slightly off topic but nice garage floor 🕶️

[@cbutters]

+David Trejo thanks, it's polycuramine :)

[@TeslaRyan]

This is absolutely great! Thanks for taking the time to carefully show all the planning and installation. I'll be emulating this in a few days :D

[@scheffman]

Great Vid, I have installed about 50 of these and never knew about the "slave" mode. Thanks!

[@bryan3255]

Nice job. Thank you. My recollection is that code does not allow both high and low voltage wiring in the same conduit. Though rigid conduit gives a much cleaner looking installation, I am lazy and tend to use flexible conduit.

[@Samlol23_drrich]

Extremely well done. Thank you. Came here cause of the Polaris connectors. Stayed because of the concise, clear description, and very neat work- and I don’t even have an EV!

[@JoeBurch]

Great video! It's really nice to see you walk through all the steps, and carefully describe your process. Thanks for sharing.

[@adamwolf1191]

As an electrician I thought it was amazing. Only thing that bothered me was that you didn't use plastic bushing on your connectors. You're in the top 1% of amateurs

[@timwilson3150]

I hope you reamed that conduit after cutting it with that pipe cutter! I don't advise using a pipe cutter on conduit because creates a hell of a sharp edge inside the conduit. Should use a band saw or hack saw then ream the burr.

[@jamesipad204]

Tim Wilson if you wouldn’t put your D in it, you shouldn’t put wire in ot

[@xoukilong]

i bet you in 5 years.. it'll jump to over a million views

[@jonathanterranova448]

When using one TESLA garage charger, JUST rotate different days to charge(you on Sunday, me on Monday). What you have done is best.

[@user-ll1vj7qo1m]

I didn't see your connections in the panel, but looks like you paralleled these #8 AWG by the connection in the JBox. Minimum size allowable to parallel is #1/0.

[@brandonrolf3584]

NEC code u need a means of disconnect. If you were pulling inspection on that, you would fail without a means of disconnect outside in the garage area before your equipment. That’s a national electrical code that’s not anything to do with state by state. :)

[@cbutters]

NEC code 625.23 says you need a lockable external disconnect within five feet "if rated more than 60 amperes or more than 150 volts to ground" this circuit meets neither of those two conditions.

[@evvsdriver1]

Excellent video! I envy your spacious garage!

[@ericvancronk6021]

Thank you for the video - VERY helpful.

[@josephhenle6667]

You did a great installation job.

[@Random_Innovation]

Thanks for showing us your diy!

[@andrewstacey315]

This is awesome. Thanks for the video - I had no idea about the data sharing.

[@flyingyakdeath]

I made a similar installation using the polaris 3-wire connector. The black (or hot) wire connector overheated, almost burned my garage down. Don't know what happened. Was using a 40 amp charger with all 6 awg copper wire.

[@rsanabia7952]

I love your video thank you for that! I would just like to confirm if I install a 60amp breaker I don’t Need a shut off switch only if I go higher amperage like a 70 or 80 amp? Breaker box access is outside the house but I’m running the wire through the inside into my garage.

[@cbutters]

That's my understanding, but I'm no electrician and depends on your local code

[@hf1497]

Nice job just that bare conductor in the belden twisted pair is actually the shield bleeder basically was there a terminal for it if so not landing it can cause signal depredation possibly in instrumentation you only land it on one side but in this case not sure. Also, make sure the insulation on the smaller wire is of the same value (voltage) as you power conductors if running them in the same conduit Cat 5 would not be good practice for instance. Nice neat job and cool floor.

[@jasonpreston9225]

Good video choice of tools gave me a headache but oh well lol

[@electricexperiences]

Nice video ! very clear. I would like to have some curiosities about how you use the two wall connecte together. Sorry for English I don't chew well. I am Italian. I would like to use a configuration like yours but with a total limited power of 4.5kW or 6 kW. Can you connect any of the two and it would start at the max power set? and in the case of two cars connected automatically would divide the power in two precise? If you have two cars connected together if one of them finishes charging the other can at maximum power? I also have two electric cars, a Model 3 and a BMW i3. I saw a pure i3 in your garage ... does the refills also work on the i3? Thanks Cesare

[@fehlix5134]

Whats happing when car 1 stops charging and its still plugged in? will car 2 get the full power?

[@tonytaing8173]

Yes

[@riubaring9671]

Nice video. Thanks for the details instructions. I am looking for the same NEMA enclosure that you with a penetration on the back wall - searched Amazon but couldn’t find one.

[@stonebat]

Super!

[@brianredding9160]

I will be doing this in the future. Thanks for making the video. I just want to make I have this correctly. You ran both wires from the connection box where your old plug was. If I already have one wall charger connected straight to my box can I run a wire from the first wall charger to the second wall charger? Or do I have to do something different for the wires?

[@louiedias996]

Great video! And cool to see the electricians commenting and helping out. I'm surprised no one mentioned that it might have made sense to splice one set of wires at the first Jbox, to carry the full power (60A), then use the second Jbox to split the single wire into two. I guess this would introduce a second set of splices, more resistance, etc. Also, it wasn't clear to me how the communication wire was run. Was it just between the two chargers, or did each charger go back to a router? And this is for the purpose of load balancing, so the master knows when the other charger is in use, and can cut its own power in half? Would would happen if you tried this with "dumb" chargers? Thanks! FYI I found this through a search for the multi-cable connector/splicer.

[@fabioromano7752]

I noticed you were removing a JuiceBox. It also does load balancing, any reason you made the additional investment for the Tesla ones?

[@PaulCHa]

I’m about to buy a second JuiceBox so I was wondering also.

[@cbutters]

Vanity.

[@ramonreyes1234]

Great help thanks

[@BFArch0n]

Nice work

[@Eec2023]

Shielded or not it is a violation to have that low voltage cable with line voltage. Also your ceiling box is way under sized. Should have been at least an 8x8 box with 1” emt.

[@mactechgenius]

Great Video! Does the junction box need a breaker or can I just use the connector like you did for a 100 AMP install? I currently have the 1st gen wall connector for myModel X but will have to sell it and get two new ones for my X and 3. Plan to do the install myself.

[@cbutters]

As far as I have researched; anything more than 60 amps needs a cutoff switch in direct line of site. An inspector may say that a breaker panel inside the garage fulfills that requirement. Otherwise you need one of those big switch boxes with a disconnect.

[@mactechgenius]

Any safety issues if I use a Polaris connector on the 100 amp like you did for the 60?

[@cbutters]

No, the Polaris Connector I used is UL listed and rated for up to 600V Gauge #4 to #12 wire. ( There are even larger polaris connectors should you need.)

[@mactechgenius]

Do you have a link for a Polaris Connector that supports 2 AWG wire for 100 AMPS? I looked everywhere but can't find it. Thanks!

[@cbutters]

www.amazon.com/Polaris-Multi-Cable-Connector-Height-Length/dp/B00CTYO7IG/ref=sr_1_3?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1504577032&sr=1-3&keywords=polaris+2+gauge#feature-bullets-btf Would that work? These large blue ones seem to do from 3 AWG to 0 AWG

[@todda2026]

Low voltage and 240 should not be put inside the same conduit, that is a no-no

[@Tykoon]

Excellent work. Did you use a torque screwdriver to tighten the cables to the specified torque at the circuit breaker and at the wall chargers?

[@tebhernandez]

Love the channel

[@WanderlustWonderscape]

You should sell off 40' lengths of communication cable.

[@scheffman]

You can just use thermostate wire

[@kirklandelectricicnc]

@@scheffman Thermostat wire is not rated at 600-volt and it's not a shielded twisted pair.

[@scheffman]

@@kirklandelectricicnc So just use cat 6?

[@drdremd]

Thank you.

[@lensherman6242]

Where did you get the spec' that pointed you to the security wire? I ask because the Tesla wall changer installation manual (page 28) says: "If the signal wire is routed in the power conduit with the power wires, the insulation rating of the signal wire should be equal to or greater than that of the power wires." The insulation rating of that security wire is 300V which would definitely not be up to that of the power wiring (usually 600V). I don't doubt that everything you did will work fine, but if one is trying to meet the letter of the spec, I wonder what wire is supposed to be used?

[@margaretmiles8910]

found this Wire that is 600 volt rated www.wireandcableyourway.com/belden-1120a-18-awg-1-pair-shielded-tray-cable-600v.html? $25 gets you over 50ft. Shipping is extra. Shielded wire should only be grounded a one end to avoid circulating ground current, but even Tesla video missed this.

[@cpad007]

One could get noise coupled to that signal line being so close to the high(ER) voltage lines. For that reason alone, I would route it differently or further away.

[@taylorjordan8388]

How do you enable network sharing between both connectors?

[@ezramoses4651]

Are you floating the neutral in the J box?

[@papafamilias92010]

Can that cause phantom voltage issues? I did that once with an unused ground in an old house and had some very odd voltage jumping all around on that floating wire. I read it was picking up current from neighboring wires.

[@westsiyed]

so how many amp wire did you used to load charge into two?

[@HuyVu-ko3qp]

What wires can I use for the communication wire?

[@AjitPatel78]

So with the 50 amp circuit, you are getting a 40 amp charge, right? I have the same NEMA circuit, but you think I can swap out the 50 amp for a 60 amp breaker w/o changing the gauge of the wire and get full 48 amp charge?

[@bretlanshelvin8628]

yes you can. 6/3 is good up to 60a

[@cameraone1]

I just installed NEMA 14-50 outlet last weekend. I thought of using 60A breaker too. However, I found out the outlet only rated for 50A. That means I can not use 60A breaker even though I used #6 wires.

[@kirklandelectricicnc]

@@bretlanshelvin8628 #6 THHN is rated to 85 amps, #8 Awg. THHN is rated to 55 Amps.

[@bretlanshelvin8628]

@@kirklandelectricicnc i have 6/3 and was told 0a is max at 30' drop.

[@kirklandelectricicnc]

@@bretlanshelvin8628 It depends on what type of conductor you're using, for example, #6 AWG, copper THHN/THWN-2 90-deg. "C" is rated 75 Amps max. If you use aluminum or copper-clad aluminum at 90-deg. "C" it's rated at 60a max. For the average residential installation calculating the voltage drop is not necessary because the runs are usually under 50 ft. and besides, the Tesla wall connector can operate at 200 volts to 277 single-phase power at 50/60 Hz. The only drawback to the lower voltages is the time it will take to charge the vehicle.

[@nickledimez4012]

Wonder why not using a neutral

[@cpad007]

Tesla Wall Charger does not require 120 V so no need for the neutral.

[@kirklandelectricicnc]

The Neutral conductor provides a return path to the current supplied through the live conductor. The Ground is used if there is a fault and provides a safe path to ground eliminating the equipment or metal chaise being energized. The actual charger is installed in the vehicle [BMS] battery management system and the wall charger is the power source that provides the correct voltage and current and safe function to the BMS.

[@richarddobriy6770]

I have one wall connector and one mobile charger plugged in the 240v plug, can I make the same set up without having to buy second wall connector?

[@cbutters]

a mobile charger cannot be configured to load balance. You could run two separate runs to the breaker though.

[@papafamilias92010]

I’d just use 2 breakers in your panel if you can make the space. Then you’d get full amperage off each one without having to share load. Assuming your panel can handle that big of a load. My wife certainly can 😂

[@Jezez]

Do you own a Tesla or are you going to? Model 3? Big fan of your videos.

[@cbutters]

Model 3 coming sometime soon. Model X perhaps soon as well.

[@Jezez]

I hope you will make lots of videos about the Model 3. I will for sure watch all of them.

[@wesbutler9999]

What size wire did you use for the grounds?

[@wesbutler9999]

Caught it finally, 10.

[@ARMEN9991000]

Did you install it on 220V or 110V ? Thank you

[@a610412]

I thought the Tesla chargers talk to each other via WiFi for the load sharing.

[@dennisb71]

This is version 2 of the Tesla Connector, Version 3 uses WIFI for share communications.

[@papafamilias92010]

@@dennisb71if your WiFi goes out do they just cut off? I’d have to assume yes?

[@kalpanchal1529]

Did you ground the conduit at junction box.

[@jonathansage2147]

Yeah you can see the copper wire from the original 14-50 and the new green wires are all grounds.

[@kalpanchal1529]

@@jonathansage2147 What I meant was the conduit itself grounded, not the ground wires. Like this www.homedepot.com/p/BRIDGEPORT-1-in-Mighty-Rite-Split-Grounding-Bushings-with-14-4-AWG-Grounding-Lug-25-Pack-SGB-383CL/314707950. Or is it not required? Conduit is metal and i have seen it done on them.

[@clementeambrosano715]

what generation all connectors are these? 2-3?

[@jonathansage2147]

They're 2nd gen

[@jonathansage2147]

You don't need the data wire for gen 3. They will communicate wirelessly.

[@jamesipad204]

One shouldn’t mix voltages in the same raceway. One shouldn’t pull sheeted wire in a raceway. The control wire could of been stapled next to the EMT conduit. This would of failed inspection.

[@cbutters]

According the the Tesla Wall Connector Manual page 30 it says " If the signal wire is routed in the power conduit with the power wires, the insulation rating of the signal wire should be equal to or greater than that of the power wires." Source:www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/wall_connector_installation_manual_80A_en_US.pdf?201612081439

[@MrMasterfumi]

@@cbutters true but theres another issue here 3/4 inch EMT with 4 x 6awg and one 2x 10awg? It would fail on conduit fill. On second look I see its 1 inch... still over filled I think

[@kirklandelectricicnc]

@@MrMasterfumi 1" conduit has a maximum of (6) #6 Awg. THHN conductors. (4) #6 Awg. and (2) #10 grounds would be acceptable even with the control wire.

[@westantigo]

I wouldn’t do that this way. Why not run a 60 amp circuit to each charger from the panel using 6/2 wg romex. Need 2 breakers at $25 each and wire. No jct boxes, no special interconnecting wire, and full 60 amp charging to each charger all the time.

[@cbutters]

Dedicating 120 Amps of your 100 or 150 amp service directly to car charging is probably a bad idea and could be a major problem tripping your main breaker if you have 2 air conditioners running and then you plug in two cars while someone is baking a cake and doing laundry. You'd almost certainly overload the main circuit in that scenario. You might say "Well then I'll only plug in 1 car at once." If that is the case then why not use the load sharing configuration so you don't even have to think about it? Also you'd use less wire because you only need 1 wire run to the garage then the wires only split when they have to. Also, 6/2 wg romex is not suitable for 48 amp charging, (it is rated at 55, but continous load puts you at 44 amps max continuous)

[@papafamilias92010]

@@cbuttersepic reply 10/10

[@TeslaDo_d]

Hey buddy! Great video. I hope all is well and your house is still standing. I'm not a certified electrician, but my electrical engineering background leads me to believe that you should revisit your first junction box and do some rewiring. Ground wires are not meant to be load carrying which is why the come without insulation. Since you are not using the insulated neutral wire you have now energized your bare wire and the conduit and the boxes. Should anything happen to break the ground wire going back to the junction box, someone will be very surprised to find that it will measure 240V instead of 0V. Also, should something touch your junction boxes or conduit that has less resistance than your ground wire, it will now become the new preferred path for electrons. Ground wires are only meant to complete an emergency temporary path for the electrons if anything shorts out to the boxes, conduit, or other items that humans can touch, they should not be used to carry a constant load back to earth.....that's the job of that insulated neutral wire. If you go to the breaker panel in your house, you will find the neutral and grounds tied together via a bar. This is the only place they should meet. If you have no shorts in your house wiring, you should be able to disconnect all of the ground wires in your box and touch them without getting shocked because they should not be used to complete a circuit.....

[@Adam-yt3pq]

Not sure what you are talking about but this is completely false.. Electrically everything looks great in the video, the only thing he may have overlooked is you are not allowed to run data wires in the same conduit run as the live wires unless the data wires also have an insulation rating of 600V. I don't see it as being a safety risk but it may not pass an inspection if it were ever looked at.

[@timwilson3150]

You're an electrical engineer? You should know that you do not tie neutrals and grounds together in a sub panel. Only at the main service panel is this allowed. SMH.

[@TeslaDo_d]

Yes you are correct. I did not research the Tesla charger prior to my reply. I didn't realize that it contains a GFCI type of circuit to monitor for any power sags across the phases.

[@TeslaDo_d]

I agree with you. However, I never mentioned a sub-panel.

[@kirklandelectricicnc]

@@TeslaDo_d You didn't have to mention a load center, you described correctly what would happen if you came off a load center. What the homeowner had was a junction box only. All level-2 and Level-3 residential and commercial EVSE do not require a neutral conductor.

[@DuncanCunningham]

I live just down the street from you. Want to sell me your Juicebox?

[@cbutters]

I'm game... I need a home for it.

[@cbutters]

Its the pro version, wifi (you probably saw my review video on it. I still have all the mounting hardware and screws, perfect condition. email me [e-mail]

[@davidsmith6051]

The wire from the breaker to the junction box is not rated for 100-amps. Running both chargers at the same time will trip the breaker feeding the chargers or burn up the wire in the wall. This could burn down your home. Not to mention a stack of code violations that could cause harm also. Always contact a qualified electrician!!!

[@agentmuldermd]

It’s load sharing. Not pulling 100 amps but 50.

[@papafamilias92010]

Half this video is dedicated to explaining that this will never pull over 50 amps.

[@GTPresents-ls7nj]

1. You did not use insulating plastic bushings on the threads of conduit connectors. 2. You cut the conduit with a method that creates sharp edges 3. You didn't ream the conduit after cutting. 4. You used 300v rated signal wire in a raceway with 600v rated power wires. All of these are code violations and/or poor workmanship. This would fail inspection and it should. Fire and Shock Hazard! There is a reason that good electrical work requires professional electricians. You should pull this video, consult with an electrician, possibly re-edit this video showing all the things you did wrong and how you are re-doing the work to correct mistakes. That would be the moral and ethical thing to do. Your mistakes may not burn your house down or kill anyone, but what about the next homeowner who comes along and learns the wrong way to do things from you. You have an ethical responsibility to pull this video down.

[@spelunkerd]

The comments section can be one of the best things about KZbin, and remarks like the one above are the reason I always skim down looking for more detail. Angry remarks are pointless unless they include explanations. In addition to the points above, I'll ask the question about raceway and box fill. I'm no electrician but I do know that the wires of a four conductor raceway like the length coming off the main J box require 20% derating, because of inductive effects and the extra heat generated when conductors are tightly packed together. Suddenly #6 wire can't carry what it should, because of fire risk if used at full amperage. Maybe that will be protected by the 40A master choice? An inspection would also require a calculation of cross sectional area of all the conductors inside the conduit, including the insulated grounds, and my reading of the tables suggests that it is at least close to over the 40% fill limit. Because the wires are of different gauge, the calculation would be complex. Less air surrounding conductors increases the chance of overheating and of course injury to insulation when wires are pulled through, and an overheat could send current down the low voltage signal wires to the control board. The central J box in the ceiling may be a little small for the gauge and number of conductors, a closer look and calculation would be required there. I make electrical inspectors work for their fees, asking tons of questions before I start so when it comes time for the inspection they tick off all the boxes.

[@mhamma6560]

I also didn't see and am willing to bet the garage junction box wasn't grounded either. The wire he used was actually 30v rated -- I know I use it.

[@mhamma6560]

@@spelunkerd he used #6 THWN or THHN which is 65a @ 75c and de-rates to the same value as the 6/3 romex feeding it since it's 60c rated. You only need to de-rate from the wires insulation value. As this is a hard-wired installation and the unit only pulls 48a on a 60a circuit, it's good to go with a 60a breaker since the load cannot exceed 48a. You can back this up with the actual circuit calculations and he's well within code (not with the missing bushings, sharp pipe, and flat out violation for the insulation value of the communication wire anyway)

[@spelunkerd]

@@mhamma6560 Thanks for responding, it is nice to know that those with experience occasionally drop by. I find the derating sequence bewildering. Our indoor NMD90 is good to 90 deg C, but all the breakers I've come across are 75, so as you say we start with 65A for #6 THHN. I use the 2018 Canadian code book but I believe the NEC is fundamentally similar. At 10:31 you can see he has four current carrying conductors in the first length of conduit. The ampacities in our table 2 are modified by table 5B if raceway fill is more than three tightly packed conductors for more than a couple of feet, so we get 65*0.8 = 52A maximum wire ampacity. From that 52A wire ampacity, we choose the next higher 60A breaker and I believe we need to limit the continuous load to 0.8 of ampacity, 0.8*52 = 42A maximum continuous load. So as you say if he programmed the master controller to 40A maximum then he is below that, too.

[@MrFree006]

NEC, 300.3 (C)Conductors of Different Systems. (1) 600 Volts, Nominal, or Less. Conductors of ac and dc circuits, rated 600 volts, nominal, or less, shall be permitted to occupy the same equipment wiring enclosure, cable, or raceway. All conductors shall have an insulation rating equal to at least the maximum circuit voltage applied to any conductor within the enclosure, cable, or raceway.

[@CRsolar]

scary scary - if your not an electrician dont watch these videos and learn FROM PEOPLE SO CLUELESS... this is so dangerous WARNING We are electricians in Texas and can help you install Tesla chargers... read comments as typical electricians still point out a few mistakes but --maybe not all it takes years of knowledge to do electrical proper

[@cbutters]

I'm happy to accept your warning. Electricity is no joke. Can you please explain what specifically was done incorrectly in this video? If I'm being called clueless; I'd like to hear exactly why.

[@CRsolar]

tube cutter. flared your conduit to the inside most likely, I bet your wire is cut within the pipe . if this was outside for example and pipe not grounded you would know asap trip or shock sort of issue. not a good thing to teach people. of course you say don't take your word for anything in this video, good to say. this is so true.. on many you tube videos teaching people how to do things wrong and dangerously. showing people electrical like this without enough knowledge is dangerous to many. in my view.

[@CRSOLARoCOM]

tim Wilson explained already I see now in comments below. 1 major issue - I am sure many more . I know I am a do it myself person also.. but this stuff should just be done by people in the business my view of course.

[@cbutters]

I appreciate your warning. What is funny is I actually asked my solar installer if they would install the EV chargers for me, but they said they didn't understand how to network the two chargers and wouldn't take the job as it wasn't worth their time to figure it all out. For what it is worth; I agree that I've seen some pretty bad advice on youtube with regard to electrical work as well; but I feel like I did due diligence and research to wire ratings, wire types, grounding properly and even using connectors rated for the purpose. While I guess the method for cutting conduit is not preferred; I took great care that the wires were sliding easily (even used lubricant although forgot to mention it in the vid.) Over a year later; no issues whatsoever using daily.

[@CRsolar]

@@cbutters strange your solar guys wouldn't help you as in most states you need to be electricians to do solar . I am sorry to rant a little just see so much crazy you tube dangerous installs. and I know people follow along and do the same mistakes