Installing against regs? , power to summer house - Electrician

[@kevinwilliams1203]

Hi nick / Adam I did a job end of last year similar to yours I ran a 25mm X 50mm roofing batten across all the posts just at the hight of the gravel boards and then cleated the armoured along that job looked good and customer was happy

[@kangtheconqueror]

Perfect solution. It’s all very well having regs, and I DO stick to them as closely as I possibly can but in the REAL world you can only work with what you have. I used that very method at my own house and it looks fine and was the most practical way.

[@brianatkinson4484]

That’s exactly how I did mine

[@Mattja1]

So many similar jobs running swa down a garden and no viable option besides securing to fence panels. If anyone has a problem with it they're welcome to come do the digging around roots, drains, and patios!

[@andrewbrady1063]

Hi Nick & Adam, I once ran a cat wire at low level using modified hooks to grab the concrete posts and clasps to pull the armoured & cat wire back to the post. So no drilling and no fixing to the fence panels, looked pretty neat.

[@electricknight26]

The only thing about fixing to fence panels which I would avoid if at all possible is what happens if high winds dump one or two, three gardens away

[@chrisroberts2266]

why does that matter though? what is the concern?

[@jameshansing5396]

@@chrisroberts2266your cables attached to it 😂🤦🏻‍♂️

[@bramcoteelectrical1088]

Asked Napit technical awhile back about fixing to fences... They said its fine as long as you feel the fence is of solid contruction. Basically not rotten wooden posts.. And then make a note on the Electrical certifacte that you have found the posts to be in good solid state to fix too. Failing that dig into ground...

[@krtelectricalservices]

The common sense approach Nick rather than having to re-landscspe half a rear garden for one double socket. I'd do exactly that. Good job lads👍🏻

[@JayTheSparky]

💯%👍🏻

[@mikeselectricstuff]

I think it's entirely reasonable to consider a fence panel to be a permanent fixed structure, as it wouldn't be un-fixed in normal use.

[@Stu2be2]

A firefighter may have to lift the fence to put out a fire 🔥 and get trapped lol

[@funky_junkie]

I can't see any problem with this as long as the fence belongs to you and not the neighbour.

[@pvegod1484]

@@Stu2be2 it would never happen. And even if by some miracle that did happen, there would be so many other factors involved that would take longer to overcome that the cable on the fence would make no difference eg locked house door lol

[@jonathanrose456]

Those fence panels collapse all the time, even with concrete posts. Fix to the concrete posts & (as Nick pointed out) it’ll sag. It also looks like it’s the neighbours fence, so you’d want written or video’d permission from the owner. Multiple options from there using timber & pvc trunking or galv conduit/trunking. Catenary would’ve been another way. Personally, I’d have walked if the customer refused to allow a few slabs to be lifted, but then, I don’t have an Adam to pay at the end of the week.

[@seanmcgrath9167]

@@jonathanrose456 its a shared boundary

[@pkf4124]

My electrical instructor used to insist on a fly lead on every socket. OCD maybe but it did save me once when a conductor broke whole the socket was on my hand it dropped to earth via the socket and not me.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

For heatshrinking, many gas soldering irons come with a hot air nozzle for heatshrinking without a flame

[@matthewmcmullan9669]

You can actually get heat shrink nozzles for a gas iron they're curved

[@mfx1]

Or just use the exhaust. However I wouldn't touch a gas iron with a bargepole these days, I use a TS100 with DeWalt battery. For heatshrink I have a cordless hot air gun.

[@solidus784]

We use a dewalt battery heatgun in work but we are often heatshrinking 240's and the like

[@sanddrama]

Hey Nick, I've used a concrete fence clamp from Amazon, it clamps around the post and allows you to fix things like Wiskas, conduit boxes and even cleats.

[@shortcircuit7149]

Thats a handy trick with the shroud. I never knew that. Your never to old to learn....

[@shortcircuit7149]

Ive also done catenerys and conduit to get over the fence issue.

[@jameshansing5396]

*too old

[@Marcel_Germann]

Regulations are always considering the best circumstances -> build a new installation in a newly built house which is unfinished on the inside. And if you do changes or repairs on an existing installation you don't have these perfect circumstances. Best example here in Germany, until 1973 TN-C was permitted in final circuits. And if a customer wants you to install a metal light fitting most electricians here will do the simple solution: Use a Wago connector with three terminals or connect the PEN to the CPC terminal and also insert a wire bridge from there to the neutral terminal. It's not modern day standard, but it's as safe as the wiring they got on their socket outlets and the rest of the installation. If the customer calls you to install a light fitting you can't deny and tell them to rewire the whole house. Especially not in a rental where they are probably only tenants. They'll thank you for your visit and kick you out of the door and in the worst case do it themself, and then without any bonding of the metal housing and so without any safety measure. If you try to do it 100% exactly by the book ,the customer will probably feel like getting this permit document in the bureaucratic building from The Twelve Tasks of Asterix. Question is, can you live with a deviation? Should not be unsafe at all and not create any possible dangerous situations.

[@stuartthespark]

The fence looks solid, as solid as the summer house, put a departure note on the test certificate. The weak point of the installation would be the cable going above the gate frame, does it need metal clips? looking at the video you could have lifted the slabs by the gate and run the swa under and then onto the fence. Maybe a RCD socket in the summer house.

[@rodd8170]

My thoughts also but it would hav been easy enough to then trench it in front of decking down to summer house, would be much neater and not hav to go over gate.

[@Nectori]

I made a £200 bet with my boss during my 4 year apprenticeship, that I wouldn't once get a shock. Lasted 3.5 years, managed to then shock myself twice that day. Should make a bet with Adam! Love the videos, really helpful for a very nearly qualified spark!

[@Fishbait075]

Something else that Nick has never done : Bought a expensive VW Diesel van , that was EV converted to have a range of 60 miles :D

[@dazl7954]

Rules are ok for an ideal world, but sometimes you have to bend them slightly according to the situation/installation, but you always make sure its safe tho, as you did. Love watching you pair work (pinky and the brain lol), cool you have a good range on your van :P lol, and not a cut pipe in sight. Good vid tho chaps. deffo thumbs up.

[@Cablesmith]

That little knipex cobra, I’ve had one in my pocket at all times now for about 4 years 😂 use it for everything, even gripping the corner of a carpet to lift it up 👌🏼😂

[@shaynemacdonald3051]

Fwiends.

[@funky_junkie]

An electrician done this for my neighbour but the only problem was that it was fixed to my fence which cheesed me off cos they didn't ask or make me aware. It was fun though when I changed my fence panels 😀. By the way i notice you make copper bars, try buying some scrap silver and make some silver bars, its fun, but of course safety first. Cheers

[@IanFarquharson2]

Same here. There’s some of that stiff orange cable clipped to my fence along the top on the neighbours’ side. It’s got their ivy rotting the panels and they’ll need to be replaced soonish, and it looks like it’s gone crispy in the sun too for good measure.

[@funky_junkie]

@@IanFarquharson2some people and trades don't seem to take things like this into consideration and end up making things more difficult for others. Whenever I do private jobs I always consider things like this, I want customers happy but always consider the neighbours as everyone can be a potential customer, cha ching lol

[@IanFarquharson2]

@@funky_junkie this is a diy job, power to garage. Not the type to think about anything much more than 10 minutes ahead. One good bit of weather and they’ll be looking at an rcd trip, looks like it’s a spur off a socket. I’ll give them a weeks notice to sort it before fencing gets done.

[@mastergraphic9998]

​@@IanFarquharson2clearly your no electrician

[@MrDBSV8]

it depends who owns the fence i would not be happy if i owned the fence and the neighbour had installed a live armoured cable along it . more time consuming but the owners shoud have planned this properly and removed the patio stones along the fence border and decking and dig a 600mm trench and install the cable prior to asking you chaps in , its exactly what i did before i had a resin drive installed for electric gates . 50m of armoured cable run 600mm in a trench to the gate, yes it costs more but it only take a neighbour using a drill to install a hanging basket on there side of the fence and you have a serious accident potential. Install it properly underground

[@kangtheconqueror]

12:25… ‘Chorley FM… coming in your ears!’ I’m Chorley born and bred and have lived here all my life. Ha, ha. Booyah!! Thanks for the mention. 👍🏻👏🏻

[@cjkokay]

Yes there been the same discussion here is Aus about fence not being considered permanent. Side note, the screws your using are zinc plated and not rated for outdoor (rust). Try galv or stainless steel or some approved type.

[@captainbuggernut9565]

Im not an electrian, ive just connected up a garden shed. I bought an outdoor extension lead. Ran it through some outdoor electrical ducting pipe to a socket with an rcd. The shed end has 4 sockets on it. Works fine and i can turn it off indoors when not in use. Is that compliant?

[@briwire138]

I would say so. Not particularly permanent but not unsafe.

[@Sean-cd2em]

Glad to hear it’s not just me who pulls the trigger on drills every time I pick them up

[@paulbb27]

Yep I agree with your method of running an swa ✅ done similar jobs myself , evenly spaced into the fence panel 👍 good job ✅

[@JibbyJabby123]

Loved the De-Ice banter 👏 🧊 ✋️ 🤣😆

[@itsalltheothers]

I had this on the job I'm on now. My view on this is, it's sometime unavoidable, make a note on the test sheets in the relevant section Departures! that's all you can do. It's clipped direct! and to rip a fence down and not seeing it. Should you be fitting fences? Not sure I'd heat shrink the sleeving though but rather use normal sleeving.

[@stephenhurrell2773]

I remembered the 1987 storms and went to a job where someone had clipped to fence panels which were smashed and the cable was all over the place

[@therealdojj]

My armoured is screwed to the fence panels Been like that for 20 years The only thing is that the plastic clips that hold it in place are so old now that trying to remove them to change a panel meant that they snapped when trying to remove them from the wire so needed new ones

[@minhazali8068]

🤣🤣🤣 the small dig at artisan electric with the guy defrosting the van with his hands. Am I the only one to pick up on it 🤣🤣🤣... Brilliant!

[@benjones1180]

Love the little artisan electrics joke at the start 😂😂

[@andyxox4168]

Shouldn’t really be pulling heavy PVC cable in when the weather is so cold. As a minimum it should be stored in a warm place for 24 hours or more before pulling … and armoured cables should be pulled from the drum or unrolled into place to avoid kinks and birdcaging !

[@campbell2471]

Did the customer complain about the cable blocking the gate top corner as the cable isn't clear of the opening? See 24:10

[@rubbersteve123]

Adam, it's all to come, leaks and shocks, believe me it will. Good luck, great content, Nick and lucky Adam!

[@shakeyh3565]

Talking about falling through a ceiling,on a new build ceiling just got boarded was crawling on the beams,I lost balance fell through the ceiling. The customer was underneath and caught me, keep up the good work 👍🏽

[@rouman7]

Another good job , your experienced enough to know what is safe , and what is not … and you were right again this time ….

[@NBundyElectrical]

thanks Ian

[@jonathanrose456]

Are the screws holding the socket piercing the shed? I normally put a panel (12.5mm ply) across the face of those before mounting

[@riptiz]

Just did my feed to workshop same to fence, sparky was fine with this.

[@cbullar4205]

I hoped you checked who owns the fence as in the UK with most properties the boundry on the left (when facing the house from the pavement / road) is maintained by the property owner meaning that there is a high probability you have just fastened it to the neighbours fence and that is something you definatly should not have done, not only againt regs but also technicaly illegal in a civil court.

[@alouisschafer7212]

But who will ever care? I would not...

[@mylesie8078]

Previously similar job done ran it threw steel conduit and saddles on to pillers ...down low ..looked OK. Don't forget to charge ⚡your van😜

[@kylektv4563]

Industrial spark here ✋🏻 currently on a huge warehouse job with no heating or doors so it’s like a wind tunnel. Pulling in miles of cables. Take the thick with the thin as some jobs are warm and steady. Loved the video mate it you ever need a hand for doing work I’d love to help and get some more domestic work under my belt. Cheers!

[@tomroguk]

Max and Paddy's Road to knowhere is the best show ever! And phoenix nights of course 🤣

[@markpunt9638]

Rules are there to be broken - at least that’s what my first boss said when I was an apprentice. 🤣

[@lewis94uk]

Where did he touch you? 🤭

[@markrainford1219]

Also a security feature. Stops the panel being lifted. Actually, if it has security clips on the panels, then they are as permanent as anything else that is screwed down.

[@mike-l4n5k]

firstly you cannot run a sub main to a seperate building from a spur in the house. secondly the sub main cable requires a local means of isolation at either end. Michael

[@acelectricalsecurity]

I don't really see an issue, it's very easy to replace the panel if necessary, just remove a few screws, not the end of the world. We all fix things in kitchen units, they are not exactly permanent structures either.

[@DC-dp3hk]

I would have fixed a pressure treated timber (approx. 75mm x 25mm) to the posts spanning the fence panels and fixed the armoured cable to the timber. That way the panels could be removed independently to the cable.

[@robertburrows6612]

After watching this video again. Personally I would of used black conduit along the fence , my concern would be in the summer that armoured cable might sag when it warms up , armoured cable is the most cooperative cable at the best if times .

[@coreheat2819]

Adam wasn't happy he had to wait to eat his chocolate bar 😂😂 good slow opening skills 👌🏻

[@michael3167]

Putting faith in the guy that did the fence on very windy day. I just get the customer to have a trench dug ready for me .

[@vinigoalkeeper3009]

Is there a particular reason why you have put the screws in the cleats at the bottom? I was always told they must go at the top then the plastic loop takes the weight of the cable?

[@paulcockcroft8920]

I was taught the other way around at college, in the event of a fire that melted the plastic, you would still have a metal fixing below it offering some support.

[@stevewilliams5873]

I agree 👍🏼 I was looking for this comment as that was my thoughts exactly. TWin and Earth cable clips = Nail at bottom, Cleats however…screw above to stop it bending over and drooping 👍🏼

[@2391Sparks]

@@paulcockcroft8920 That train of thought is supposed to cover premature collapse and a cleat in that situation would be a pretty big non compliance..

[@thomasnoonan4171]

Can't beat a good video from Nick and Adam on a boring Tuesday. We'll done lads great work as always 👏 🤙

[@henryeadie7972]

Adams asking the question we're all thinking. Why did he saw into the pipe after lifting the board up and see'ing them? 😂😂

[@Elonas]

I wish I could work at such relaxed pace 😅

[@wiganPrayersman5177]

Nice job. You could of used NYYJ cable or high Tough, it's similar to SWA but no steel .its a lot easier to work with.

[@jchidley]

I can't see a problem with what you did and I don't think that it's against the regulations. The cable is supported, and may only be "subject only to vibration of low severity and and low risk of mechanical impact". To quote from Guidance Note 7 "Special Locations" Chapter 13 "Gardens" Section 13.3 Cables: "Unprotected cables should not be buried directly in the ground, nor should they be clipped to wooden fences". You are using a SWA cable (i.e. protected) so the normal rules about support applies. Looking at Table D1, Appendix D, On-Site guide the spacing depends on overall cable size and is between 350 and 450mm for horizontal runs of SWA.

[@raychambers3646]

Knowing the regs you'll probably find a contrary reg to say it might be ok!

[@chriswev]

Could you not lift a row of flags, and a couple of decking boards, and run it semi underground, through a duct, rather than run it along a wonky fence? If the customer has a dodgy set up, they should pay enough for you to spend more time on it, so it’s as safe as possible?

[@DC-dp3hk]

Definitely a pressure treated timber needed to span the posts or some other independent means of support for the cable should be provided. I wouldn't consider using the panels as support a proper job.

[@nickmurphy6515]

If that’s an armoured cable and you just cut through it with ck cutters then you’ve just ruined them, they are only for soft metal???

[@NBundyElectrical]

they are an old pair just for that job bud

[@nickmurphy6515]

@@NBundyElectrical lol your either earning too much money or your spoiled with all the free tools 😂😂, I always get they ump with the guy I work with when I catch him cutting steel tags with my ck cutters 😂😂

[@NBundyElectrical]

I've got loads of the ck ones lying around from years ago,

[@nickmurphy6515]

@@NBundyElectrical fair enough, I only buy more when I accidentally leave them at job or lose them .I find they stay sharp for years if you only use them on copper.

[@jonathanrose456]

They’re easily sharpened

[@szieee84]

why u didn't run it under slabs and decking? this is armored can be in the ground ...

[@Sparks0001]

Customer said no

[@Ted_E_Bear]

Artisan says to watch y’all !

[@NBundyElectrical]

legend

[@9plusinstalaciones]

It was 21° here today, freezing I'm really feeling these low temps this year.

[@neuq8989]

Had to pull through 5 core 35mm and 6 x 25mm 5 cores In December. What a ball ache.

[@hackwoodelectrical]

I did something similar with a cone cutter… took the top of my thumb off. Haven’t done it since mind

[@mensamoo]

Nice job. So what about pulling a non armoured cable through a pvc conduit? Acceptable?

[@TheFoolishboy9]

Good practice to have your garden sloping away from the house, so was never going to be level.you should of ran the cable on the other side of the fence , you wouldn't see it then. 😆

[@roberthardy2013]

I made some clamp type brackets to fit on each post with the wire secured to these. Would it be legal to permanently glue these to the posts under current regs?

[@NBundyElectrical]

good shout with the clamps, not the best idea to glue the panels if im being honest dude

[@robertsekura4434]

great defrosting technique! although I learned already from artisans :D

[@jondonnelly3]

Looks fine to me, the only other alternitive is to lift a dozen patio slabs and put cable underneath. Nobody got time for that. Time = Money.

[@philipsmith0752]

good job Nick and Adam all nice a square , no good a droop

[@Dbusby1988]

What was the socket powering nick? I would have been tempted to use an off grid solar solution.

[@jamiedykes9482]

Nice little dig at Jordan 🤙🏻

[@wizard3z868]

You don't have PVC or direct burial metal piping like in n.america ? ( granted I prefer pvc over metal ). O and if it where to be buried yes your SWA is far superior to our direct burial cable its almost the same as your dble core but just thicker PVC coating. I don't use it I prefer conduit myself

[@havoctrousers]

Yes, the cable he used is for direct burial. Nick commented above - the homeowner didn't want to lift the patio or the deck.

[@wizard3z868]

@@havoctrousers I understand that but in the states we cld have run PVC or metal conduit that wld have been much stiffer and required one cleat ever 1.5 meter. I notice in the UK you use a lot of flimsy thin wall plastic or the swa that needs to be clipped every 10cm lol

[@havoctrousers]

@@wizard3z868 we have PVC and metal conduit and ducting too. Our galv conduit is much thicker than your flimsy EMT! The OSG has the minimum distances for cleats at 300mm for smaller diameter SWA, not quite that bad!

[@wizard3z868]

@@havoctrousers we do have thicker condiut as well other than emt that is threaded much like yours just normally not used except for extreme conditions like flamable/explosive and severe impact or damage expected areas. Im sure it's cheaper and easier to use swa than to use your thicker walled condiut where as we can use pvc? I do like your swa and the old Pyro fire resistant system

[@jonathanrose456]

TT, TNS, TNCS?

[@AndyK.1]

Screw it to the slabs / floor ?

[@deancarter4109]

So to be clear can armoured cable be attached externally to a wall?

[@renral69]

I had a friend who hole sawed his hand with gloves on.. it literally pulls your hand in, dont wear gloves when using spinning tools especially if your hand is close to the sharp end! They don't suggest not wearing gloves when drilling etc. in the safety books, but they definitely should.

[@mattbarnard1]

Does this not need to go direct to a separate RCD in the main house consumer unit?

[@earllewis4396]

@N Bundy where do you get those cleats from? Need some to tidy up the armoured cabling on my woden garden fence.

[@craigmcg125]

How quietly is Adam opening that biscuit 🤣🤣

[@ethr6742]

Could u not lift the slabs and bury it without cleating round the gate and then use the fence for the straight ?

[@Lee-xs4dj]

That's what I did in my garden. Lifted the slaps that make a path from house to back gate / shed and put armored underneath it. Regs say it should be a meter underground but fuck that.

[@jonathanrose456]

Just for Adam 😂👍👍👍

[@idi0tdetectioninprogress]

Aww Nick, when the thumbnail said "Against Regs" i was hoping for exporting PME to an outbuilding ! Now that does get sparks out of their pram 😂

[@chriscommons8140]

The stuff of myth and legend is exporting of PME lol

[@sgfelectrical734]

Nothing wrong with exporting PME at all. Now exporting a true PEN is an issue

[@jameshansing5396]

Not an issue at all in many situations? You’re making stuff up, lad

[@SwitchedOnHD]

5:20 Adam I agree with you there. Not sure how he done it. Lapse in concentration most likely

[@Pipster232]

I must be honest, I’m not a fan of securing to fence panels 😬😬

[@UberAlphaSirus]

Best way to defrost anything is to stick your hands all over it and then a nice fresh application of hot smeg.

[@Predicti0n]

Haha! Been watching Artisan, no idea why he has that van :D! Pleased you've learnt his amazing defrost tacs tho D:

[@Colin82ish]

Most of Adam's injuries have probably come from downlights applied onto his poor little fingers... ;) Top job guys, love the channel, really interesting stuff.

[@keithjackett9895]

Black 20mm Conduit would look 10 x better fellas. Conduit 90's and saddles with a 6mm rubberized cable inside init. Cost implications pretty much the same in the long run but looks better and easier to install and easy to clean/ Maintain in future...

[@tc6907]

Great videos guys! Definitely no issue in my mind with clipping to a fence I was always taught to cleat cables so the screw of the cleat is at the top and this allows the weight of the cable to be held 👍

[@robinpenny3193]

I was taught the opposite, because if the screw is underneath the cable it supports it, rather than the bendy plastic bit taking the weight...

[@chrisfs150]

@@robinpenny3193 exactly what i was taught...

[@dannyboisparky]

It doesn’t matter which way really. How the cable is run would be the overriding factor on which way I would put them.

[@mattysmethurst5946]

Taught the same. T&e clips etc nail at bottom. Cleats screw at top

[@Peckeronthebeach]

Could you not run the cable inside a length of 32 mil black plastic pipe along the fence or down along at floor level “obviously clipped”. Also this would stop the cable from sagging and looking a bit messy in the summer and if you really needed to remove it for whatever reason you would just pull it from one end and it would come out.

[@brendanmacphee4379]

Hi Nick I am building a small shed and am wanting to run an armoured cable from the house fuse box to he shed, roughly about 20 metres in total what size cable should I use?

[@Baggiolyful]

I’ve done this before in a garden. Customer would be fuming if I started digging up half her garden. Nothing wrong with using common sense sometimes.

[@sirronnitram8937]

If this were an Artisan job snacks and drinks would be waiting, a restaurant meal for lunch, and a Tesla company car.

[@dommccarthy1889]

Nope. They'd be stopped at a service station halfway there trying to get enough charge into the epic VW to get to the job, & de-icing the windows with their hands!

[@sirronnitram8937]

@@dommccarthy1889 That purchase was a bit of a mistake. Still, Jordan can afford to make a few mistakes with his turnover

[@ivorwelch8446]

Did laugh about the defrosting of the van and the van range joke !! Artisan haha

[@GunnyRabbit]

What up! Do you use the pricing and stock option on Tradify? How do you populate the tables in the software with wholesales price lists??

[@nevets7152]

Put a catenery wire along the fence and attach cable to it .

[@andrewcadby]

Can anyone tell me what the regulation is that suggests you shouldn't be fixing cable to fences?

[@westwonic]

Building Regulations part P.

[@tylerbrown9602]

Another great video lads keep it up thinking of getting my electrics qualification 👍

[@gabor.nadudvari]

As a home owner I would had pick up 6 the slabs and put the cable underground full length.