Installing Concrete Backer Board with an Acrylic Shower Pan

[@BirdJesus_]

Great tutorial here! I am at this exact point in my basement bathroom project and really think this method has some great points. I love seeing clever uses other materials such as the window sealing tape!

[@RighttothePointDIY]

Thanks Chad. I did a lot of research until I came across this solution and it worked great!

[@michaelferreira8746]

I believe in putting blocking between the studes all the way around to give the tape something behind it.

[@RighttothePointDIY]

Good idea. Thanks for the comment

[@howardemerson457]

Interesting use of what roofers use as an 'ice dam'. My question to you, and just about every other tile installer on KZbin, is this: If the grout is properly applied, and always maintained, then water infiltration should not, in theory, be a problem. If there is, however, a failure in the grout, and water infiltration occurs, where is that water going to drain out? You've sealed the Hardi backer with liquid rubber, essentially, and shower walls are not constructed like a masonry wall with weep holes. Inquiring minds, etc. In any case: Nicely explained and presented video, sir.

[@RighttothePointDIY]

Thanks for the comment. You make a great observation which I briefly alluded to in the video. Basically, with all of the water proofing I did on the Hardi backer board there is literally almost no chance any moisture will get through and therefore this additional layer is just an additional insurance in the very outside chance both my sealed grout AND the water proofing seal failed. It's not likely to happen. If water does get through the grout it will just run down the water proofed backer board into shower pan. It's been about 2 1/2 years and I have absolutely no sign of any leaking and I don't expect to going forward.

[@howardemerson457]

@@RighttothePointDIY how can it get back out to the shower pan if the bottom tile course has been silicone sealed to stop water being drawn upward via capillary action, etc? I’m not trying to create a “gotcha” situation, by the way! I sweat these details even though I no longer do outside construction. Around my house, though, the stuff haunts me because I’m a basket case:-)

[@RighttothePointDIY]

@@howardemerson457 Good question. I should have clarified. I didn’t silicone the bottom of the hardi board because it is 1/2” from the bottom of the pan and the tile goes past the hardi board another quarter inch or more. Also, when I sealed the hardi board I also sealed the bottom edge just in case there was some ‘splash up’ that somehow would reach it (highly unlikely).

[@chrisjenkins6456]

Great job! Thanks for the ideas!

[@RighttothePointDIY]

You are so welcome!

[@tailosimpson]

Great idea with the adhesive flashing at the bottom. The plastic sheathing behind the backer board does nothing to help you though and only provides an opportunity for moisture to get trapped between two water proof layers. Trapped moisture can result in molding. You always need to provide opportunity for moisture to evaporate out. Water can even condensate between layers with temperature differential. You could use Tyvec instead which allows water vapor to escape but also I don't think is necessary. The Redgard is sufficient waterproofing. Thanks for the ideas.

[@RighttothePointDIY]

Thanks for the comment Taylor. I had not thought of the plastic sheathing and moisture issue. Thanks for that input.

[@Framer_Mike]

Window tape, over the window flange...it's how We framers set our windows... great idea brother!! I'm guessing Zip tape will work. Thx. Big help

[@RighttothePointDIY]

Thank you sir. Yes, I believe it is a good solution.

[@doug2202]

How do you like the feel of the acrylic pans. My wife does not want a tile base and looking for the best pan

[@RighttothePointDIY]

Good question. That pan is a delta pan and it has very stiff Styrofoam backing to it. I did this in an apartment in my basement that I use for an Airbnb and after two years it’s holding up great. I have never showered in it although I’ve stood in it. My daughter lived there for a while and she said it was great.

[@doug2202]

@@RighttothePointDIY Great thank you for the reply. I assume you mounted it into a bed of a certain mortar?

[@RighttothePointDIY]

@@doug2202 No. instructions said not to. I used a construction adhesive per the directions.

[@maniacaledub2606]

Hi....I used flex tape, instead of window wrap. My question is this. One of my walls is exterior on a shower installation. I live in central Canada, I have a plastic vapour barrier over the studs behind my wonderboard, I'm using redguard before I tile. I hear that this may cause a moisture build up with no way for it to escape, between the plastic and cement board. What is your opinion on the theory of a "moisture sandwich". Fact or fiction?

[@RighttothePointDIY]

That is a great question and I got to be honest I do not know. I would recommend talking to a contractor in the area that has actually done it and probably done repairs of showers where it actually happened. I live in East Tennessee, and we just don’t get that kind of cold. Sorry I could not help you.

[@papabonez33]

What kind of thin set do you use with the backer board?

[@RighttothePointDIY]

For the porcelain tile I put in the shower I used Versabond thin set from Home Depot.

[@MikeH-ee9ij]

Doesn't the backerboard fan out a bit at the point that it crosses the lip of the shower pan? The lip is 1/4" thick, it just seems like that will be obvious after the tile is installed IF the backer board comes down close the pan

[@RighttothePointDIY]

Good observation Mike. It does ‘fan’ out a bit but there are a couple of things to note. First, I kept my lowest screws fairly high up from the edge. That makes the ‘fan’ more gradual. Secondly, when you tile you can make up the fan effect with your thin set thickness. My tile turned out great and you can’t tell there is any fanning at all.

[@jpp9846]

How did you address the seam where the wall and pan met? Did you grout caulk it?

[@RighttothePointDIY]

I did not do anything there. I just overlapped it and then screwed the backer board to the studs.

[@jpp9846]

@@RighttothePointDIY so, there is a small gap between the tile and shower base?

[@RighttothePointDIY]

@@jpp9846 Correct

[@jpp9846]

@@RighttothePointDIY I guess if the tile is over the wall flange slightly, there isn't really any other place for water to go... Thanks!

[@Kingkrool123]

Hey good video. Will be giving this method a try this weekend.

[@RighttothePointDIY]

Thanks my friend. Glad it was helpful. If you want to help me out you can subscribe. I’m trying to get up to it 1k subscribers.

[@hellenparedes2478]

Such a great tutorial! What is the plastic sheets that you used on the walls & what kind of mesh & silicone caulk did you apply to waterproof your screws? I am going to be remodeling my own restroom but I would like to add extra layers of water protection. Thank you

[@RighttothePointDIY]

Hey Melinda. Thanks for the comment. That plastic was I believe a 10 mil plastic. Pretty thick. I got it from Home Depot. The silicon caulking was a good quality I also got at Home Depot. It can be clear or white (I prefer white silicon so you can make sure you have it covered but if the screw is exposed obviously go with a clear. Good luck!

[@Bgbrown125]

James Hardie states to stop 1/4” above pan edge.

[@RighttothePointDIY]

Thanks for the input.

[@AllthingsJimThorpePA]

Great video. I use zip tape for the bottom. Much easier to apply.

[@RighttothePointDIY]

Thanks. Great idea. That is good stuff and would probably work just fine.

[@bobm6527]

I use hardibacker on a weekly basis for building outdoor kitchens. I don't do bathrooms, until now, (my own.) The biggest downside I see to your method is that you can no longer "glue and screw" product directly onto the wall studs. From what I've read on hardibacker site, they recommend just the 1/4" gap on bottom of shower pan, but also shimming the board out. The don't show any plastic, only a 1/4" sealant bead. Here's an unrelated tip for everyone. I see your board screws have all created a "burr" on the hardibacker at point of screw head penetration. That is typical. To deal with this, we take a masonry bit and use it to create a slight indent where each screw goes. That way the head countersinks, but doesn't tear out surface and create that "burr" effect. Probably not so critical for a shower, but when we are doing california stucco finish, we need that hardibacker to be as perfect as possible, or we end up with more prep work. It takes longer, but makes the screw heads so much easier to deal with overall, as they don't pull into the board easily, like screws normally do with sheetrock. At the edges of the board you almost have to do it, or the board cracks when you attempt to sink the heads, especially with 1/4" material.

[@RighttothePointDIY]

Hey Bob M. Thanks for the comment. I appreciate you taking time to write out the long response. I wanted to ask if you could clarify something for me. When you said "The biggest downside I see to your method is that you can no longer "glue and screw" product directly onto the wall studs.' what exactly did you mean? I know you could not have meant you cannot screw the hardiboard to the studs because that is obviously how it is attached. Can you clarify? Also, great tip on avoiding the mushrooming of the hardiboard when you put the screw in. Fortunately because I was doing tile the thinset was thick enough to cover any 'humps' where the screws were.

[@bobm6527]

@@RighttothePointDIYSorry I didn't make that clear. I am not even certain it is recommended by hardibacker, but I have seen other videos that mention "glue and screw". Our method of installation is to always put glue on studs before hardibacker. We are using welded aluminum tubing in place of wood studs for outdoor kitchens, but the principle is the same. If you apply glue directly to the studs, and then put hardiboard on them with screws, now the glue sticks to hardiboard and studs, therefore making a much more solid overall structure with less chance of the years of vibrations, during use, or even someone in next room closing a door every day, or upstairs bouncing around, to eventually cause tiles to let go. ( More recently we started doing a bead of glue on seams before setting next board.) Now, if you put plastic on the studs, the glue cannot contact one or the other, so no direct bond from the hardiboard to the stud. We glue and screw every kitchen island we build. Many of them have a veneer stone applied, which is much heavier than stucco. I'd never trust the screws alone to hold, and even more so with products like durarock, which is much softer. True cement board is much easier to work with, but the screws also pull through easily, almost like when doing sheetrock. Outdoor kitchens take a ton of abuse from weather, wind, people, chairs, door sets slamming, etc,..it seems a shower would also have tons of movement and temperature changes, plus it may be used several times a day for years on end.

[@RighttothePointDIY]

@@bobm6527 Ah! Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense. I am not too concerned about this shower as I have lots of studs available and it is on a slab so there won't be a ton of vibration but this is good information to know for the future.

[@davo912]

@@bobm6527 glue? lol funny stuff for a wall..always some keyboard expert

[@bobm6527]

So you don't think walls are subject to home vibrations, or expansion and contraction? Nor do you think the glue and screw method is more solid than screws alone? They glue and screw subflooring all the time to make it stiffer, so why wouldn't it work for any wall application? All homes expand and contract, and the home I happen to be working on is not even climate controlled year round unless it is being used, so it has more opportunity for expansion and contraction. The sheetrock gets cracks from expansion/contraction movement in any home, so why wouldn't the shower tile? In addition to that, I have installed hundreds of sheets of hardibacker using the glue and screw method for our outdoor kitchens. I would never simply screw to the studs, as that would never hold up. With glue, you can't get the board off even if you removed the screws. Just because it is not the standard method, does not make the extra step incorrect. You can wire your entire home with 10 gauge, but it is not required. @@davo912

[@georgelucy2801]

I ran cement board down to pan.. and just now discovered this video. I can 't take it off. I've sealed seams and finished to drywall in bathroom. Crap!! Guess I have to silicone the bottom?

[@RighttothePointDIY]

Sorry buddy. The good news is if you keep that silicon in good condition you should avoid water getting into it. What I did was plenty overkill but, when it comes to water, I have learned that it 'finds a way'. LOL. Also, if you want to, I would appreciate you subscribing to my channel. Trying to get to 1K subscribers. I'm close! :) Good luck George!

[@georgelucy2801]

@@RighttothePointDIY The hardibacker is ran down to the top of the lip on the pan. Just went and got some astm 920 approved silicone Going to pump it in the little seam and just make sure I keep up with the caulking on the bottom of the tile. Every few years I will peel it out and put in new. I even bought the stuff. I put it on last night over the hardibacker and over the tile lip.. I thought does thinset stick to this window flashing? And found this video and started slapping myself in the face. Doh! Subcribed

[@gailbradford305]

Hardie board instructions on the internet does not require all that. Just says to set the board on top of the lip.

[@RighttothePointDIY]

Thanks for the comment. I actually talked to a couple of installers, and both had slightly different ways of doing it. However, they both were in favor of putting the hardie board over top of the lip just based upon their experience. The reality is if you waterproof correctly, it will probably be fine either way.

[@scottpurdom3057]

every stud should have been firred out to keep wall plumb

[@RighttothePointDIY]

Thanks for the comment

[@Mike_S_68]

Screws through the shower pan cancels your warranty. Modified thin set under the pan is the proper installation. That’s what the round cavities underneath the pan are for.

[@RighttothePointDIY]

Thanks for the note. I did put thin set down on the bottom as well but the instructions stated to screw the pan to the studs. In fact, here is a video by Delta that gives the exact instructions. kzbin.info/www/bejne/apCxg2eorN15baM&ab_channel=DeltaFaucet. So, both the instructions that came with the shower pan and this video from Delta tell you to screw the flange down. So, I doubt it voids the Delta warranty.

[@Mike_S_68]

@@RighttothePointDIY wow, surprising. 🤔 To be fair, I’ve only installed Dreamline pans. Great idea about the waterproof tape over the flange. I’m going to try that. 👍🏼

[@toddphillips6329]

Not necessarily true. Some acrylic pans specify screwing into studs through the screw strip, Delta is one.