Installing LVL Beams During a Residential Remodel

[@Greyskydies]

This guy seems like the kind of guy you want working for you. Smart.

[@cruisinthru3916]

Nice video. Something that needs to be mentioned is that the new Posts holding the LVL have to have support all the way down to a footing or other qualified beam. Ive seen guys do this and the posts were sitting on 3/4" plywood with nothing below it...literally floating. Make sure you have a structure path all the way down to something solid.

[@mansardmanor3869]

Why is it that extra footing support of post n beam or concrete footing ever discussed? How about metal support straps?

[@godspeedjnr3068]

cruisin thru I assume he is bearing on a bottom plate, onto floor boards, which transfer the load to the joists and bearers, which assuming here are spanning end to end on a continuous concrete footing to ground, pretty hard to tell from a video though, but ur right though these kind of things for someone not in the know can be bad practice, good carpenters well always check these things.

[@mansardmanor3869]

@@godspeedjnr3068 great comment. May I add with your comments, the transfer of load point must be a larger supporting base, 1- Concrete underpinning more concrete 2- Larger Floor joist post n beams to support & transfer of weight the LVL beam carries.

[@ketertrue]

Thought the same thing verbatim. I’ve seen it done as well. Floor flexing under load and a disaster waiting to happen

[@samfr8370]

Totally agree, but I would assume that there is a footing below the post since it is replacing a load bearing wall on the exact same spot.

[@Justalittlefoxdude]

This man is an expert you can tell when some knows what he’s doing. Great job.

[@omater81]

If Iron Man is saying that Wood Man is good, it's gotta be true

[@PedroGonzalez-yn8mc]

I could tell by the hat nes wearing

[@normandong4479]

Well done. Clearly explained and clearly shown. Good for all homeowners and carpenters to consider the importance of LVL beams to handle load bearing walls while opening space and sight lines. Bravo.

[@BaronVonSTFU]

This probably has the best video quality out of all the random remodeling videos I have watched on youtube.

[@357QueenBee]

BaronVonSTFU agree, short and to the point.

[@99thatoneguy]

That is awesome to see our product in the field. I am a millwright at the plant that laminate beam was produced.

[@westbrookrestorationsllcca6527]

Thanks Scott! I love LVL beams, and the sense of community knowing tradespeople on the other end are taking pride in the quality of their work, like yourself! It sure makes my job easier.

[@adamduffy7079]

Scott Sheraden ubxjzjds klgcñnnmķop

[@1stzard]

@@adamduffy7079 still wondering today what this means?

[@markbrinton6790]

Good job. However, I can't get over the fact you didn't wear eye protection.

[@microgamingrepairs1981]

Just bought a house and will be using LVLs to take out a wall dividing the kitchen and living room, will let in a ton more light and then I have so much more work to do... can't wait.

[@Kobe29261]

Will be doing the same, first though I'm planning to go from 8ft to 9ft ceilings so researching the ins and outs of that

[@waynepalumbo8917]

Love those little Makita impact drivers!

[@ericjones3920]

Awesome. I’m getting ready to use LVL TO REPLACE Two POLES I HAVE IN MY GARAGE. Thank you so much.

[@diannahaney8901]

Thank you for this. I'm at the tail end of a similar project -- not a remodel but truly a rescue demanded specifically because of load-bearing damage done in 1950 and 1980 to my 1869 home. We were not able to fully re-work the kitchen due to the roof restraints in what was originally storage area. The Structural Engineer advised sizeable LVL beams in two places; forming a "T". Our carpenter added a third beam above the sink (unconnected to the others). The impossible challenge I have now is at the bottom of the "T". The Structural Engineer specified a PT Pine Post sitting three feet out in the floor supporting the LVL Beam. Which rests on ceiling perimeter framing that is layered and strong but not strong enough to support the LVL Beam. The Post eats up four feet of space in small space line holding one appliance and a planned pantry. The size of that post cannot be enfolded into the pantry or hidden in any way. I'm exploring with another structural engineer ways to transfer the load bearing service of the post into that wall. Very complicated now. One earlier structural engineer friend had told me of a classic "H" of support in similar situations. Turn that "H" on its side, in this case. Where LVL goes on both walls and the Joist is supported between them. I still don't know how to solve this. Unless I do, the space will lose its functionality. Gain strength, but lose its purpose in the home. That's always the dual focus of working in living space--even if it is historic space.

[@MrMockingbird1313]

That is an excellent explanation about how and why to use an LVL solution.

[@anon31415]

Heard someone talking about "LVL beams" but didn't understand what they were. Really great video on what they are and how to work with them! Thanks.

[@StrongLikeBullTV]

When you see a carpenter with a hat and suspenders like that he's about to take you to school.

[@jerrymccurry9372]

Exactly...The woodright's shop

[@lauraanzures5625]

Great video. Dude looks like a handsome time traveler from early 20th century.

[@michaelatodora]

Awesome. Quick and to the point. The whole process summed up in a couple minutes. Most dudes ramble and ramble.

[@Simen2024]

Great work, can we do the same way you did but not underneath the and we attach the beams to this LVL with hanger?

[@JohnKMazzie]

Thank you for the video. What is the "maximum length" that an LVL Beam can be..? As part of a basement renovation, I am wanting to relocate (and still use) two (2) solid steel posts and install a header for the main floor upstairs. There would be a 3rd solid steel post in the middle off an approximate 29' span. Thank you in advance for a response as well as any comments from the YT community.

[@robsonlucena2358]

THANK YOU FOR YOUR EDUCATING VIDEO. I am learning for all tips for my own house remodeling, and a couple or helpers. I will continue seeing you your videos. Thanks. Robson

[@gregoryyoung8819]

Great video! I'm a visual learner and this was very clear. Thanks.

[@jsmcguireIII]

We cut the floor joists above the beam location and then clipped the cut joist ends to the beam. This let us shove the beam up flush with the subfloor above and minimize the visual exposure in the new room. This was all cleared by our engineer and the building inspector. The other beams we installed under the joists, but hid them inside walls and door frames. It looks like they could have done the same here and kept it all more open.

[@jerrymccurry9372]

When you say "clipped"...do you mean you added metal hangers?

[@jsmcguireIII]

@@jerrymccurry9372 hurricane ties that were approved by inspection. Joists were all well blocked to stop and twisting.

[@lindalou4501]

Just wanted to thank you for this great video. Very good information and wonderful to know how much lighter LVL beams are. Much more reasonable to work with.

[@davidpalomino64]

Great video ive done this 3 or 4 times mainly in kitchens ... clients love it

[@shaneholly959]

is the lvl meant to remain exposed?

[@jerrymccurry9372]

@@shaneholly959 That, or stained, painted, covered with sheetrock...etc...

[@zefrum3]

Was a roof line in the way? I presume there was since you didnt install the beam flush with the ceiling joists.

[@propereagle1mma938]

Hey Daniel how big was opening between post to post and how many LVL Beams you put together also how big are they last question did you talk to Engenier about it

[@darieldelosreyes4397]

Any insight would be great. I have a 2 story house in New Hampshire and planning on removing a load bearing wall. Just wondering what direction header and how many of them I would need for a 12 foot span

[@carennawillmont3706]

Do you recommend covering the beam in dry wall?

[@64VWLVR]

Hello, how to you install lvl support beams for an unfinished basement and open up several areas? Have Structural Engineer report and was giving a go for my ideas to widen basement area.

[@rodney5551]

Great job whats the length covered by the LVL beam ? Thanks

[@seancrowley7520]

Important to note: follow fastener schedules for ganging multiple plies. Also i would install fasteners before removing the temporary wall. The individual plies don't have the desired " load rating" until they are fastened. (AGAIN, according to the fastener schedule which varies per conditions...ie number of plies, side load conditions, etc.

[@dho1665]

I need to install an LVL beams for 2nd floor. how does the post support the beam? does the post build right at the beam from the lower level?

[@donnimetropolis9899]

So if it's a 2 story bearing wall you always have to use 4 of the 2" beams? I'm asking because I've seen do many only use 2 of the 2" beams over a 4x4

[@397coney7]

I have an older shed building that is 30’X40’. It appears the roof wasn’t built very strong and has dips in it. I’m wanting to add two of these running the 40’ length. I have an understanding of how to attach them on the ends, but how do I secure the 2X4’s on roof to the LVL’s? Just screws or store bought brackets? Do the 2X4’s have to be notched?

[@BornToFly4031]

Great job...outstanding videography.

[@user-Jab1000]

Can the LVL beam that supports the house be made of 2 pieces? In our house there are 2x22ft LVL beams - they are not screwed or glued together; there is only the metal post that keeps the 2 beams together. Is that okay?

[@fernandomingo3491]

Did you create a new footing for the two opening posts? Was there a floor joist that you could use?

[@terrencerooney6926]

Thank you, very clear explanation. Why didn't you use nails to hold the beam together?

[@SavageGModz]

Terrence Rooney I agree. I was wondering the same thing though

[@johnwallace1729]

Nails can back out ,where as screws anchor.,and engineer will probably call for screws for inspection compliance.

[@emadnadi5206]

it would have been a great video if mentioned LVL, post s sizes as well as lengths

[@jerrymccurry9372]

The posts sat in the walls were 3 1/2" thick and appeared to be 8" wide. So I guess you could call that a 4x8. Smaller beams could use a 4x4 or 4x6

[@willmol2547]

Hello, first let me say thank you for the great video. Question: I noticed you used 4 LVL beams so how do you determine how many should je used.

[@helenachase78]

Do you have to strengthen the structure under those end posts ? I mean in the basement..... I have a 2 storey very similar to the one you are working on and want that look ! Oh, I forgot to mention that one end of the beam would not necessarily be on an outer wall but 3 feet in as there is a closet there

[@columbuspalmer846]

Nice work love it. Is that like laminate half inch plywood together or something?

[@jerrymccurry9372]

I believe it has 11 ply veneer adding to 1 3/4" thickness

[@craiggerlach5548]

I was looking at these beams as well for support to replace an old support during a building move.. Moving a cabin and lifting up to 2nd story and the 16' wide cabin used a beam through center. Was trying to figure out their guide and appears a 21' span for a 22' building would require 3-18" of these LVL beams, hope I read their chart correctly, going with 8" walls all around for more R value and load capacity. Been decades since was in remodel business, I only followed orders, and too poor to pay for consult.. They had just a rough 6x6 with 2 supports that lasted nearly 100 years, and since my bedroom will be underneath this raised building, overkill equals better sleep... cabin was on a failing foundation, hopefully she will sit into place and settle in short order so can replace roof, she has a tweak from sill to rafter on 1 end, but couldn't see it going to waste where she sits... Menards 40 miles away is our only cost effective source for materials, local lumber yards are a good 50% higher cost, but more convenient.. Decisions and much more reading, thanks for video..

[@craiggerlach5548]

The menards units looked like stacked 2x4s unless I was on the wrong product page... Like I said a month to gather knowledge before the move... all summer into fall to get it right..

[@luiscruzgimenez3382]

Hey amazing video, but wondering why the bottom had double plates instead of the top side , just wondering still learning myself

[@superwiseman452]

I definitely would have put the lag screws in the beam before removing the temp wall..... IMO as a prof engineer.

[@LightGesture]

@@siliconvalleymetal I second that.

[@tahoefor]

not wise after all

[@physicsudel2013]

@@siliconvalleymetal"Settle evenly" ? What's moving? Some of the LVLs? Well that would be the definition of "uneven loading". I disagree with your call, bolts need to be installed so that they can be put into sheer when there is ANY differential loading so that they may transfer the load to adjoining beams. In the limit of many beams carrying a load, such as the LVL itself, it would be like saying place unlaminated sheets of wood up in the ceiling. Then, cut the temp walls down THEN glue the beam together....

[@physicsudel2013]

@@siliconvalleymetal beams are chosen for their stiffness and resistance to deflection. Typically the beam would be one continuous piece, you install it THEN apply the load resulting and some deflection under load. When the beam is composed of multiple parts that are to function as a unit, all of it should be installed prior to the load otherwise you end up with a larger deflection. There isn't really much else to say about it.

[@nopeacejustwar1664]

Great video! What type of posts/columns do you use. Is it the same as the lvl beam? Thanks!

[@jerrymccurry9372]

It looked like a 4x8 to me

[@michaelbrandt7078]

​@@jerrymccurry9372 he said he cut it to size. Probably a 4x8 cut to actual 7 inches to carry four 1 3/4" lvl.

[@geraldschulz6436]

I love your video. I have a question about removing a wall in my garage. The previous owner put a second single car garage on the original single car garage. There is a wall in the middle of the garage I would like to remove it. The wall is NOT a load bearing wall. It has a Hip roof, with trusses. The span is 27 ft. It sits on a concrete foundation. 6"X2' There is a shelf storage on both ends of the of the original garage. I want to use 2X12 or 2X14 LVL's. (2) or (3). Again, it is not a load bearing wall. Would this work. Thanks. PS. The garage is 32' X27'. The Trusses are not lined up with the wall.

[@eschrader]

How did you attach the floor joists to the beam? Strong tie joist hangers?

[@lacihalasz]

if the uper floor is from brick and concret what kind of a wood beam can i put ? 4 m long span. tnx

[@fatinzamil1411]

Great Job Dinal, well done!

[@tiendong7912]

Very very good shows, Excellent video!. I will have an opening 18', It does not bearing wall, it supports ceiling only, (It will be one side has 18' long ceiling joist and another side 5' long ceiling joist only). With LVL 16"x20', should I use two or three ? Thank you very much.

[@shantawalker7058]

What size length screws did you use for the LVL's?

[@Cwho9ss]

Is footer with Jack post needed in basement for lvls

[@stanleysiewierski]

What's under the new posts you installed? Foundation wall, perhaps going to new footer in basement?

[@carlopietrovito6453]

With your expertise, I wanted to know if you would personally drill a 2 inch hole for plumbing on a 11 1/4 inch by 1 3/4 inch sistered 3 times? LVL permits it, on their website

[@pauldhennessey]

Nice Job. Thanks you for showing how it's done properly and without breaking your back

[@westbrookrestorationsllcca6527]

Thank you for the kind comments! Thinking, and planning ahead is the key to finding best solutions with any project. Thanks again for watching.

[@chiefcoyote3963]

My first lvl install got my arm sliced. Since then, nice and easy.

[@russelanderson5856]

I'm not a carpenter, engineer, architect, or any other type of qualified individual regarding framing but my question is this. Could temp walls have been put up on either side of the LVL location, existing second floor joists cut away for width of LVL, and LVL raised up to meet second floor ply subfloor, with the cut floor joists strapped to LVL or Simpson tied, or however that attachment would be done? It would raise the beam almost entirely up into the cieling, and present a much more appealing appearance. Just trying to learn here. Thanks in advance.

[@tguay9]

Yes.

[@valormafia7721]

I have a pier and beam home and redoing the Joice and some ceils. It is coming to a point to where I have to lay the subflooring three-quarter inch plywood and was wondering what is the easiest way to install the sub-flooring under the walls?

[@hybrid98]

What screws were used to screw the LVLs together?

[@rsaybe4341]

Is it OK to install the LVL beam without a top plate? I'm replacing a cracked wooden beam which runs parallel about 2 feet away from my garage door and will be using a 3.5x12" LVL beam at 19ft length. The beam is supporting the roof rafters. The old wooden beam had a single top plate. I would like to not use the top plate to give me more clearance as I have a very low headroom clearance as it is... Would it be fine to not use the top plate as was seen on this video? Is a top plate even necessary on an LVL beam?

[@Loonypapa]

Is for a garage door opening? For a 7 foot tributary roof area, that beam fails.

[@rsaybe1]

Nice Job. What type and length of screws did you use to support the temporary wall?

[@jtotherocfromsunnyvale1124]

R Saybe on any I’ve done we just used 3” drywall screws, it’s sturdy enough to give temporary support because it is just that, temporary

[@dominiqueholmes9733]

What about hangars is any size hurricane clip ok to use to brace the lvl to the floor joists

[@lofinnell]

Your video still one of the best.

[@wolfy1]

How do you temporarily support a garage where you want to add a beam for a garage door

[@jay-g606]

Daniel could you please list the power tools you were using on LVL install.

[@davidperry2306]

Why did you remove the temporary walls before joining the LVL's together? Doing that put premature load on the unfixed LVL's prior to them becoming the 'beam' they were intended to be.

[@RushAustin]

He clamped the beams together, top and bottom, before removing the temporary walls. Maybe that allowed freeing up the workspace for screwing down the length of the beam? I dunno.

[@WorksforMe]

Its actually done later so the 3 beams will rest in their load bearing position and be evenly sharing the load. If they were screwed prematurely, then they may all not be evenly loaded.

[@WorksforMe]

sorry 4 beams

[@irisgg858]

@@WorksforMe nice thanks for clearing thay up i was just about to comment but what you you said makes allot of sense thanks.

[@bakabaka2061]

@@WorksforMe Look, the purpose of a LVL is to add strength to one piece of a carrying beam, yes sistering LVL's together is permitted however you NEVER EVER screw LVL's together when there is a main load applied! You want to avoid any sort of warping and distorting of one or 2 lvl's in a set of 4. Make sure they are all strait and just because you did that on either end does very little to help the cause. Prior to putting a load it's so that the load is evenly placed on all the LVL's! Look I know it says that you are Master Carpenter but next time talk to a engineer about load deflection and structural deficiencies. I have seen too many video's of people claiming that there way is the right way when they have not even consulted any sort of engineer's for assistance.

[@borys444]

Awesome video. I’m learning myself

[@samsanati4715]

how far was your new beam span?16 feet?

[@elyuma473]

hello there iwant to make a opening space and im gonna need a 21 foot header how many lvl i need 2 or 3 to make that

[@robbacon9969]

How much would a job like this cost. Just labor and material. Without shoreing cause mine is going next to the existing wall. Its already gutted to the beams, so only the structrual work needs to be done. Im getting unrealistic estimates.

[@KoiAquaponics]

Would you ever use wood glue or construction adhesive to glue those beams together as well as screwing them? would it add more strength?

[@lorachastain251]

No, when using multiple LVL beams for a load bearing wall replacement they must all settle into place and equally share the load of the weight directly above before they are secured/fastened together. If you were to glue them first the load could be improperly distributed, and this would cause stress on the beam.

[@elhidrocalido8375]

and what happened to the cement supports under the posts and the hdu.s 🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@nevillemadden394]

How did you get the LVL Up To The Required Height ? ... .. Those Things ARE NOT LIGHT !!!

[@GermanShepherd1983]

What is the difference in carrying capacity between a lam bean that is 5.5" wide and 13" high (basically a bunch of 2x6's glued together) and a solid beam of Douglas Fir that is 5.5"x 11.25"? Trying to figure out how much carrying capacity we would lose using the doug fir beam on a 20' span. Thank you.

[@daxdax6249]

Would you be able to say what the span was? And what kind of screws you were using to join the LVLs together after they were placed?

[@ourcafehouse]

Yeah I would like to know what the span was and the size of the lvls you used for that span???

[@skatetildeath420]

So I currently have 2x12s running 8ft and need 10ft I know 3 2x12s can span 10 feet between post. My question is can I use 3 2x12s as support and not those ugly jacks?

[@feelingsaucywithchefanthony]

Great video. I am removing an overhanging soffit that use to be supported by a 3x3 pantry below it. The lvl will be spanned 15 feet from wall to wall. It will support 10-11 rafter beams and the roof in a single story home. Would 2 2x8 be good for this, or should they be 2x10? I would also like it to be recessed, aside from the height of the stud pack, is anything else different?

[@georgecomb6705]

How about install that LVL up "in" the ceiling? I suppose one need hangers and the like for the floor joists above. Do you ahve a video of that?

[@elijahorelisha7954]

I had a question, I have a similar project but it's a pantry closet, and its supporting the 2nd floor, I was wondering if I could use 6 Lvl beam 3 on one side and 3 on the other side, following your steps in supporting the 2nd floor with temporary 2×4 wall on both sides. If you give me your email I can send you pictures of what I'm trying to accomplish... Thanks again in advance..

[@CharlesAllen1979]

Hello, first off I want to say I enjoyed your video! I am remodeling my house and am putting in a 19' span 4-2x12 beam that my stringers will hanger from straight down the middle of my house dividing evenly on either side. I question my local lumber yard about how I should build the beam. They suggested an LVL but they didn't tell me it would come in sections like you have shown in your video. They said it would be the size of 11 2x6s laying on top of one another, really heavy. So I chose to build a 4 2x12 with plywood and metal valley tin sandwiched in between each 2x12. I am wondering if the beam I am about to build depicted above will be strong nough to span 19' and hold 11'5" stringers on either side. The lumber yard told me it would not be code and not strong enough. My house is a single story house so nothing but sheetrock and insulation will be held by this beam and stringers. The reason I chose not to use the LVL was weight and cost. It just seemed like over kill. Just a weekend warrior here so any advice will be greatly appreciated and reflected on.

[@alordi2701]

That would be strong enough.

[@johnschaefer8883]

sure sticks down far, any way to get a lower profile LVL, steel an option?

[@MrTackleberry79]

Another option is to cut into the joists and hang them to the sides of the LVL. Tons more work.

[@PrimeSuperboy]

How do you know that your new support beam is properly sized? Are you doing any calculations or are you just going for an overkill approach?

[@paullly3665]

Would it be possible to tell us what size did you use? And how much load can it take?

[@reshadnabi1206]

Thanks Daniel for a very informative video! You did not mention about the floor surface where you installed 2 LVL supports, one on each side... When you remove a load bearing wall, all you see is the floor joist so how to prep the floor ready for the supports and what size and how many pieces of lumber needed to have a safe and strong support foundation? Also if you have a 2 story home all rough framed using 2/2s and the loadbearing wall that needs to be removed is studded by 2/6, could you remove such wall and if yes, why a 2/6 stud wall and all other walls are 2/4s? Thanks

[@danielpaaunajera7314]

Amazing job 👍👍👍👍

[@ray_banz5899]

Why are you using a cross pein hammer? I thought that’s for blacksmiths?

[@shanedantz4641]

Great video! I want to open up a gap in a load bearing wall. It already has a roughly 4 ft opening, I want to take it out another 3 or so feet to a closet door. The wall isn't holding up a second story though, the roof trusses tie into the wall. Would the support wall be the same as if it was holding up a second story? Id like to hide the beam if possible, but I am ok if it has to be an exposed beam as well.

[@lorenwilson8128]

This is the type of question you ask a civil engineer that works in this particular field. It will cost you a bit but is worth the money.

[@anglainam9055]

What size and type of screws do you use to secure the LVL to the floor joists?

[@alekscortez2516]

Hey I started project of removing wall and suspect it is a bearing wall, (structural wall) so I stoped the work as client wanted to remove this wall. Where should I look for help to find out whats required to hold the load. Above is a timber stud wall + joists ans a roof.

[@dakotaharden]

You tell your client to hire a structural engineer :P

[@dangerboy808]

Nice, i usually glue between the 2x12s then lock them together but it looks good to me

[@grillo7196]

think deep Glue/ construction adhesive such as PL Premium does not adhere to LVL’s since it is wax coated. Not sure exactly if it is wax. However, the coating on the faces of this product does not except adhesive. Best thing to do (in my experience) is to clamp them tight & use Timberlock lag bolts or something similar.

[@lakemarine484]

It would be nice if you mentioned what to do if some joints are higher and some are lower when installing the LVL support. I mean your not properly transferring the load if your only contacting partial joists or if you jack it in then you buckle the floor above. LEts face it ....its never that simple. Tediously chiseling or shimming with what?

[@antoniovasquez5302]

Love the pouch

[@justaguy2022]

the PDF file linked in article is not available anymore. anybody got a copy?

[@silosvince]

Nice and concise, unfortunately you missed showing the simpson ties. I have seen DIY homeowners think these are unnecessary because they see videos like this

[@pn1309]

I'm investigating using LVL' s for a large (24' dia.) yurt platform, using 24" deep lvl , sq. pattern, using only 4 steel support hunch ' s , finishing off the infill w/ 18" x 24' lvl @ 2'-0" o/c. Would this work? Thx!

[@davidhurst3780]

Is there a formula for the thickness of the beam related to the span of the opening?

[@jasexavier]

There are three, one for the wood fibers resisting bending stress, one for resistance to deflection, and one for shear parallel to the grain. It's usually better to use values from a table, rather than calculate it out by hand, unless you have special circumstances. There are a lot of factors that go into each equation.

[@bigbill805]

6inch screws should of been screwed prier removing support wall 🤔

[@Warkive]

I came to ask why this was done as well.

[@edgardojimenez8213]

Is the post to support the LVL also something special, or can i just lumber from the home center for that?

[@alabastardmasterson]

You can usually use dimensional lumber for your jacks

[@ricovlogs6114]

What are the lost holding the lvls? 2by what

[@mikegomez5796]

How do u secure the post to the beam

[@robertpompliano9048]

Can you provide advice on vaulting a ceiling