Installing M3 Subframe Bushings on my E92 335is

[@midwestbmw1292]

So I’ve had the suspension overhaul completed for over a year now and since then the car is making ~650whp. In short the rear end of the car is still sketchy and I think one of the main reasons is the SF moving still. I plan on swapping to solid SF mounts this winter and will simply live with any addition of NVH because of that. So if you’re planning on using M3 SF mounts, I would recommend just skipping ahead and going with solid instead.

[@spencerhulme1203]

E C tuning make brackets that slot into bushings to stop them from moving they have a video on the page that shows the before when the Subframe is moving to where it does not move at all with the brackets in place.

[@dcs-motorsport]

Maybe the nicest build on YT, we gotta see this girl in action brother 👍

[@midwestbmw1292]

Thanks for the complement. Shoot for the moon on this build, but there is a lot of stiff competition with the E9x platform. Which is always a good thing. Currently torn down for winter for tons of upgrades. More content coming soon.

[@davewallace9048]

Yeah can’t wait to see those turbos going in. I’ll be going with the Turner motorsports relocated inlet kit, really nice beautifully designed kit! On the aluminum subframe bushings you just cold pressed them in put them in the freezer overnight they actually going fairly easy!! I guess it all depends what brand you choose also. Your car is killer it’s gonna be worth all the pain and suffering in the long run!!

[@in54ne82]

Forgot to mention on the previous video that if you use silicone lubricant on the bushings it'd be way easier install, night and day difference. Great video! Can't wait to see that thing on the road.

[@midwestbmw1292]

Thanks for the insight on these. I can tell they’re going to do wonders for the chassis as a whole. I considered using some grease or lube but with how damn tight they were fitting I figured it would simply squeegee it right off as the bushing moved into place.

[@TheFlyingPLiner]

You had me at using a yeti mug as a removal tool.

[@midwestbmw1292]

Lmao

[@menotyou5065]

2 things come to mind..... 1) Shouldn't you put some sort of lubricant (maybe liquid soap) between the bushing and the subframe? 2) When pressing the bushing in, I would have used a bigger washer so the pressure is against the outer section of the new bushing, not against the centre section.

[@midwestbmw1292]

In hindsight a little silicone spray would’ve likely made it easier. Regarding using larger washers, I paid close attention when installing the bushing. I watched to make sure the inner bushing was compressing faster than that outer portion of the bushing was pressing into place. With all that said it doesn’t matter anyway because I’m about to swap the M3 bushings out for solid aluminum in the next few days. Video to come.

[@ceondecember4995]

Also I think another tip would be to compress bush with some type clamp like hose clamp to help ease install

[@qx4n9e1xp]

Thanks for this video! I'm hopefully going to be tackling this job in the spring (after I do my oil pan gasket too 😭) I ordered a bunch of crap, and I only want to do it once. I'm also gonna need to get a shop press or something because making a make-shift tool like you did for the bushings seems too convoluted.

[@AFatGuyILittleCoat]

Solid information dude, thanks!

[@andrewf8486]

You should try spraying windex on the bushing first it will slide in much easier

[@a.g.pennypacker3464]

Thank you for this video! I am starting to do the same modification.

[@davewallace9048]

I think I am going with solid aluminum subframe bushings. Hopefully I will have my RB turbo soon!! Going with the game finisher 17 T.

[@midwestbmw1292]

It took about 5 months after making payment to get mine. Rob gave updates throughout the process to keep me informed of the delays. I started the tear down over the weekend and so far it’s going smooth. 🤞 I kinda wish I would’ve went with aluminum SF bushings. At the time I was worried about too much NVH but my car has so much damn NVH now anyway, with the 8.8” conversion, that it likely wouldn’t have been any worse. If you’re installing them yourself just be prepared for the pain in the ass they are. Many people have shared their horror stories about putting in aluminum bushings.

[@user-nz7ri6om7u]

Nice>, a little tyre soap also helps here,ive found

[@DG-od4si]

nice but press the bushing from the outside not from the rubber

[@hercpilot03]

At 10:58 - Is your entire subrame supported ONLY by the press holding the bushing??! That much cantilevered weight is going to make it really hard to get an even press-in. If that's how you tried the first press that failed, that could be why it didn't work.

[@midwestbmw1292]

Yeah if I recall it was. At the time I was really just getting by with what I had in the garage. In hindsight I would’ve done it much differently.

[@sandro9595]

Nice video 👍 did I see right, that the lemförder bushing is the original with a m badge on it? I'm thinking about to replace the subframe bushings on my 335is too.

[@midwestbmw1292]

Yeah I think they were one of the OEM manufacturers. I would recommend going to solid mounts if you’re planning on making above 600 HP. My subframe is still shifting even with the M3 mounts.

[@kar4tube]

Great DIY! I'm planning to tackle this exact project on my '09 135i in the near future. It has pretty much an identical suspension as an E9x so will definitely consider going with M3 bushings. I've got no issues dropping the subframe myself, but man that looks painful inserting the new ones! I'm curious what you would estimate the cost might be to hand over your subframe and new bushings to a local indie shop and pay them to do the swap?

[@midwestbmw1292]

There was a point during the install (when I crushed the new bushing and had to replace it) that I considered taking it to a shop. The shop I called down the street from me said they would do it for $150. I wasn’t willing to pay that, and I’m doing everything in my power to build this car in my garage. Doing it on my own, and the subsequent satisfaction of doing so, are the driving forces behind this project. Good luck and let me know if you have any hang ups.

[@Hilth0Modding]

aye fellow Ohioan!

[@bozhanbozhanov761]

Did u notice more noise at the back after this upgrade?

[@midwestbmw1292]

Hard to say if the SF mounts added and NVH. I swapped so many parts and added the Ford 8.8” rear end in. I will say that the totality of mods I’ve done to the rear suspension and drivetrain has definitely increased NVH.

[@tecitez16]

This is definitely on the list to do in the near future. I went with the poly sub and diff mounts. How was it dropping the subframe? The entire job intimidates me.

[@midwestbmw1292]

It’s really not that hard but more time consuming. The most difficult part for me was getting the driveshaft off. It requires a special wrench (50mm if I recall). Also the nut connecting the driveshaft to the diff was very tight on my car, and with it being on jack stands and not on a lift, I had limited room. Other than that it’s really just nuts and bolts.

[@jansplace]

I take Powerflex for the complete subframe .. Best decision ever... No Rubber shit...

[@wrblue08]

Awesome vid and extremely painful to watch where the press work messed up. Apart from the 4 M3 RSFBs, did you need to get anything else from the M3 parts catalog? I’m planning to go down this route via an indie and would like to make sure there isn’t anything missed out during downtime. And is there a difference in orientation (up/down) between stock and the M3 RSFB’s?

[@midwestbmw1292]

Thanks! Yeah destroying parts sucks but it provides lessons. I’m just glad this was a relatively cheap one. As far as other M3 parts goes, you won’t need anything but the bushings in order for this mod to work. I ended up adding M3 rear wishbones and guide rods (control arms) and covered those in a separate video, but again they aren’t required. You’ll want to pay close attention to the orientation of each bushing as you press them in. I should have spent a segment on this video covering that aspect in more detail. What I did was look up pictures online of M3 rear subframes so I could see how they’re oriented, as there isn’t much difference between the M3 sf and non-M variety. I’m sure at various points of my video you’ll be able to pause and check how I have them oriented, if nothing else. Hope this helps!

[@wrblue08]

I’m glad it’s relatively simple from a parts perspective. Ive taken a screenshot of the bushing orientation from your vid to present to the indie in case they haven’t done this before. So how have they been holding up these past weeks? Did you have to re-torque any bolts? How does the rear end feel before/after?

[@midwestbmw1292]

@@wrblue08 so the car is still on jack stands…unfortunately. As soon as it’s on the road I’ll have videos posted for everything I’ve done. I have a Ford 8.8” rear end conversion coming Monday. Once I install that it’ll be ready for alignment.

[@impenetrable2]

Do I see ball joints in lower control arm bushing instead of oem rubber?

[@midwestbmw1292]

Yes

[@impenetrable2]

@@midwestbmw1292 same as the one on wheel side? You noticed actual benefit?

[@midwestbmw1292]

@@impenetrable2 it’s hard to say what suspension mod helped the most when I was at this stage of the build, mainly because I upgraded a bunch of items all at once. Once I added all the power to the car I started having an issue where the ass of the car would dance/sway side to side under hard acceleration. The fix for that was a set of RevShift solid trailing arms. So I always tell people those are the suspension mod I noticed the most from in the rear. Up front I would say the Turner Monoball in the control arm added the most benefit. It tightened up everything under hard breaking and made turn in very crisp compared to the sloppy factory rubber.

[@Hamkaastosti1]

Great video, is the subframe for a normal 335i the same as the is? When I floor my E92 335i i feel the rear moving from left to right, sort of a rubberband effect. It does not give confidence. Will this + rear M3 arms fix this feeling? Car is almost 15 years old and I Imagine that the bushings are gone. Recently put the KW v1 coilover set on it, and car feels and steers incredible, only the wobble rear under throttle is horrible.

[@midwestbmw1292]

The 335is has the same SF as a 335i. Only the M3 has a unique SF. There are two things that are very likely at play regarding your situation. First, the SF bushings. Swap them to M3 or solid. Second is the diff, specifically BMW’s “E-diff programming for the shit open diff that comes on our cars. Swap to a Wavetrac or M3 diff and then use Bimmergeeks ProTool to code out the E-diff setting once you do. This will dramatically change your experience. Another improvement would be to add poly diff bushings while you’re swapping the diff out. IMO the M3 rear control arms aren’t a mod that are really worth the money unless you’re doing a complete build with full suspension overhaul, like I am. You literally won’t notice much of anything with M3 control arms, unless the bushing in your stock arms are completely shot. Hope this helps.

[@Hamkaastosti1]

@@midwestbmw1292 Thank you for this awesome reply, I have to gain the courage to do the overhaul. I did a E46 subframe overhaul on jack stands and it was a hell of a job. I reckon this will be the same.

[@midwestbmw1292]

@@Hamkaastosti1 glad to help out! It is not for the faint of heart. It was a pain in the ass.

[@Hamkaastosti1]

So my plan was to take the subframe out and only do the M bushings. Well that turned out to be quite the rabbithole. Trouble with rusted brakelines coming off so replaced the rear lines going to the front of the car which was doable only a pita on jackstands because of the space + you have to bend it yourself. The rear left line is pre bend. Bought a 4 ton press which made extracting and installing the bushings easy with the help of silicon grease, the diff bushings and control arm bushings are easy to do with a c-clamp tool with. Then I had trouble removing the swaybar links, with a broken bolt on both sides as a result because of the rust, also the bolt on one side broke which hold the handbrake cable. Found used replacement carriers however those had play in the wheelbearing so went all in and removed the wheel hub, bearing and bushings and completely wirebrushed the whole thing. Gave it a coat of paint and ordered new bushings and bearing + new hub and new dustshields. Then I had the issue removing the drive axles to the wheel which where ceased in the old carrier, but where in pretty bad condition so I ordered new ones which still need to come in. Then I thought, might as well do a full rebuild, so send the diff to a specialist here in the Netherlands, they did a full revision and installed new stronger bearings and a OS Giken superlock lsd. Also had goodridge steal braided brake line kit that I had not yet installed, so went ahead and began on the front. Offcourse the front left was also rusty and the brakepipe was already bubbling, so also replaced that line which is easy to do. And luckily the front right was also rusted but I could get it loose with some heat, the line itself was in good condition. But those brackets which hold the brakeline and abs sensors where also rusty so took them off wirebrushed them and gave it a coat of paint. This wheel will put the subframe back in and will slowly put everything back in place. Very curious how the os giken drives, will be my first LSD.

[@midwestbmw1292]

@@Hamkaastosti1 man you literally ran into all the problems I did, and then some. Trust me though it’s all worth it in the end getting all that stuff upgraded and refreshed. I just put the car away to start the turbo install but was able to get about 1000 miles worth of driving time in it over the last few months. The subframe bushings make a world of difference and so does an LSD. trust me you’ll love it. I ended up going with a Ford 8.8 rear end conversion.

[@DaDeCodeIsTruth]

why no grease???

[@midwestbmw1292]

I tried. Clearance was so tight that it simply scrapped the grease right off.

[@grantlong6586]

What mods do you reccomend after FBO on a 335is

[@midwestbmw1292]

I guess it depends on what your goals are for the car. Track, street, dd, etc. Having owned and modified a few of these cars, in my opinion, coilovers do a ton to transform the ride and overall performance characteristics of the chassis. If you’re already FBO then you’re likely already experiencing the slacky, sloppy suspension, especially under load. If you have the money then coilovers and subframe bushings will produce a night and day difference in handling. The issue with a lot of 335i builds out there is the suspension gets neglected in favor of saving money for power and aesthetic mods.

[@grantlong6586]

@@midwestbmw1292 yeah im still on stock suspension I've been putting off coilovers because i have an e93 and wanna make sure i get the right springs for the extra weight.

[@a.g.pennypacker3464]

@@grantlong6586 I have a E93 335is as well. What springs did you decide to go with considering the extra weight? I am looking at AST 5100s or Sachs.

[@grantlong6586]

@@a.g.pennypacker3464 i haben't bought any yet i was planning to get coilovers with 8k/18k springs on the rear theres a forum post on it on e90post. But now im thinking of copying ken atkinsons e93 335is(guy who made the mhd ots maps). He's running ecs tuning coilovers with an ecs front sway bar and m3 rear swaybar. His e93 335is is single turbo with 650whp so it seems like a pretty good setup. If I were you I would hit him up on facebook and see if he got custom spring rate. Look up Wedge 335is to see the build