BMW (E92) M3 Failed Subframe!

2008, 1 owner, 111,000 mile E92 M3 came into us for an Underside Refresh:
www.redish-motorsport.com/BMW...
Upon removal of the Rear Subframe assembly, we were shocked to see a hole in the right-hand side tubular steel section.
** This video was recorded in 2020 **
It's common knowledge that E9x M3 Rear Subframes corrode, but it's usually just surface corrosion.
However, this one was clearly different.
What's even more surprising is that this owner is the ONLY owner - he specced & purchased the car brand new from BMW in 2008 - hence the amazing and rare Oxford Green Metallic Paint.
He's parked the vehicle in his heated garage almost every night - so this shows overnight 'garaging' has nothing to do with how to protect the underside of a vehicle.
It must be driving them all year round and through the winter which adds the weather effect underneath, as well as driving in salted conditions, and perhaps leaving the car with damp mud underneath.
Of course, in the early years of the car's life, this isn't too much of a worry and probably isn't on most people's minds.
I can speak from experience (James Redish) as I bought a 5-year-old F80 M3 and it was extremely good underneath with almost zero surface corrosion on the black steel rear subframe assembly.
Now, 3 years later it's already showing surface corrosion setting in and I'm regretting not protecting it when it was a younger car.
Traditionally, during our Underside Restorations, we powdercoat the Subframes, however, this vehicle had to have a brand new Subframe from BMW - adding a whopping £1426 GBP to the cost of the project.
This is a perfect example of 'Don't Leave It Too Late'.
If you've been considering tidying up the underside of your E9x M3 then now could be a good time.
For more BMW E9x M3 content check our website here:
www.redish-motorsport.com/BMW...
Did you learn anything from this video, if so, drop us a comment.
Is there anything further you think we should add to this sort of video?
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Thanks for watching!

[@ralphmillais5237]

Every vid I see a lot of comments criticising BMW but many of these cars are 15 to 20 years old. This subframe took 12 years to rust through. I am old enough to remember the old BMC 1100s with subframes that had holes in them after 3 or 4 years. I remember Fords needing strut tops after 5 or 6 years. I won't even go into the Lancia Beta/Fiat or Alfasud memories I have, there isn't time! The average car, unless Ziebarted, would be a wreck after 7 or 8 years. Whilst BMW may not compare well with its peers today, comparisons with the rot boxes of the 60's and 70's and even 1980's are somewhat extreme. I can say that with certainty because I was there!

[@HamsterDesertEagle]

Meh a car should serve you not the other way around. It’s not worth spending so much time and money on an old car.

[@BETNCORT]

There is no excuse for the subpar problems that bmw always engineers into their vehicles...soo many ridiculouse problems you see on what is a very expensive luxury car when they are new ...and you dont see these problems on a lot of cheaper alternatives....you don't see Honda's engines with multiple catastrophic problems that will cause engine failure....or subframes rotting out or cracking after 10 years.....it really is sad, because bmw has made some really amazing cars in the past....modern bmws are Puke to me

[@rossfripp4503]

I have just done a full suspension rebuild on my car and opted to replace the rear subframe as I wanted new bushings etc anyway, and I figured a new one would last at least another 15 years. I also coated it with Bilt Hamber Dynax UB to give it a bit more protection, too, but was wary about coating bits near the bushes and holes. as I didn't know what goes in where and didn't want to risk any fitment issues!

[@wadehampton4499]

Another excellent and informative video from James and the team. I've got some of my friends watching these vids now, who would have thought that poking about under cars could be quite so interesting ! Having just had the underside of my JCW Mini inspected for corrosion at MOT time (all ok) I got to thinking about this. My car is often kept in an (unheated but not terribly cold) garage. However, if the car has been used on wet and/or salty roads, I make a point of leaving it in the driveway to dry off naturally. My dear old Dad advised me never to stick your car in the garage whilst it was wet, a good carport is, of course, a different matter.

[@shoestringfarm]

Thanks for the heads up.

[@eoghankelly68]

Brilliant video lads very informative 👌🏻

[@hugha9769]

Yup. That subframe corrosion also happens on e36s and e46s - including M3s. The wall thickness on those parts is thin to begin with. I have done subframe bushings on 3 of my cars and had to work over the actual subframe on each. Heavy wire brush, rust converter, 2 coats of primer, 2 coats of paint. I am in the market for a e90/e92 M3 and will put that area on my list to inspect.

[@Bamsebrakar2011]

Rust protection is essential if you drive regularly on salted roads. It’s a relatively small investment compared to the cost of a car, and can be done on a secondhand car as well. I had a similar problem with the rear subframe on a 2005 Mini Cooper cab, and after considering patch welding up several rust holes, I realized the steel thickness was so much reduced that I concluded with sourcing a good secondhand replacement, which worked out very well. The degree of corrosion was not that shocking considering the car was 15 years old.

[@royfontaine5526]

This car was 12 years old and this level of rusting is completely unacceptable especially from a supposed premium manufacturer on a top end car. Rust proofing is all good and well provided (a) it is done properly and doesn’t cause more harm than good and (b) all areas are protected. It isn’t really possible in hard to reach areas such as those highlighted in this video.

[@MotorworkGallery]

Very surprising!

[@berwhaletheavenger]

This has been a problem on 1 Series and E90 stuff for a few years. However it's NOWHERE NEAR as severe as subframe rot on Mercedes crap - you will find 2013 Mercs with subframes that have rotted enough for both breakage and MOT failure.

[@jaybones614]

BMW just doesn't want their cars to last.

[@chrisg4rr377]

No manufacturer of any product wants that

[@royfontaine5526]

@@chrisg4rr377 some manufacturers used to pride themselves on longevity. I don’t see why this still isn’t the case - surely a car reputed to last will have better residuals, and be a better prospect for buyers, even those who don’t keep hold of them for long?

[@shoestringfarm]

It's a bolt on component, they want us to buy parts. I worked for a BMW agent in the UK. It's a relentless parts selling machine.

[@royfontaine5526]

@@RustBucketConnoisseur it’s a shame the e39 body and underbody rust for fun though...

[@dillanmistry]

That’s why when you create something yourself eg a diy box, you’d think through its longevity and forget about any planned obsolescence, you buy one from I kea it’s made not to last on purpose so the manufacturer can make more money out their products, very much like bmw today with their so called Idrive, you can only record the service don’t to it by goin to a bmw dealer and you can’t get anyone else to note it into the system, when I first heard about that I immediately knew it’s just a way for them to take your money, it’s the way most manufacturers are going, makes better sense to put more non environmentally safe products on a car that last a very long time than to put recycled parts in that end up back in land fill because it doesn’t last long, I agree with you

[@richardtrow2751]

Oh my god thats rough 😳

[@user-fe6cm6hh2v]

Would be interesting to know what part of the UK this car is from. I imagine cars driven in Scotland would be subjected to more salt in winter than cars driven in the south east, over the same same mileages. But agree with all the comments saying putting a wet, salted car into a heated garage is likely to have contributed. I lived in southern Germany for a bit, where it was colder in winter than here. A colleague had a 70's Merc as his daily and I asked how he kept rust away with the heavilly salted roads. He said it was fine to leave the salt under the car winter, as long as it stayed properly cold, but as soon as spring started arriving and it got milder you had to get underneath and wash it all off. He explained it was really only when the temperature rises that salt starts to act on the steel, and then the warmer it gets the more it will corrode.

[@adogmcdizzle]

Little know fact is that heat helps accelerate corrosion. It is an issue in aircraft engines. In instance of this car, the owners seemingly fastidious storage may have helped accelerate the corrosion which was there - driving a salty car into a heated garage is a mistake many make. In an ideal world it would get a thorough wash underneath and then go under a car port, or a very draft shed. I have heard of people using a garden sprinker and just moving it around over a short period. I am considering some quick jacks for general work, but also thought I could use them to quickly get the car in the air to wash off the salt over winter.

[@OneWayToMachines]

How much road salt was used in the roads of ownership? How wet was the climate of the roads if weren't salted? You mentioned at 2:00 that this car was stored in a heated garage all of its life by one owner. A 30 years experienced Audi shop owner once told me that heated garage storage for a car that drives on wet/salty roads in the winter, which makes the moisture melt and seep into crevaces, is even worse than parking a car outside during the winter. When parked outside, the the ice sticks to things and stays there, until it falls off or is washed off; the metal and paint on the underbody are also cold/contracted and not as accepting of the corrosion. Recommended heated garage only for a car that is used in the summer, or stored throughout the entire winter. What are your thoughts on this, significant difference or not? Road salt obviously eats through cars that are parked outside too, but the heated garage may have accelerated this

[@bimmerbuds]

I’ve heard the same thing too. I’m thinking the head garage may have been more detrimental than beneficial in this case.

[@royfontaine5526]

Yep I was thinking this too. Though the subframes on these seem to rot whatever. I guess they’d have to be kept dry all the time and dry stored not to. Pretty unacceptable, as if they had a decent coating this wouldn’t be so much of an issue.

[@OneWayToMachines]

@@royfontaine5526 True, didn't know that about e9x chassis, good to know for future purchase. In Volvo world the P1 subframes are pretty bad too. The P2's don't have the same rust issues. Both volvo platforms are from the same time era. Goes to show how these manufactures pick and choose what fails

[@royfontaine5526]

@@OneWayToMachines I think everything is shite nowadays! Bit of a bugger when you want/need something newer! My two e36s have been very rot resistant (despite the poor reputation) but they’re really too old now for my purposes. I’m in the market for a 440i but concede they’re much more “built to a price” nowadays 😟

[@OneWayToMachines]

@@royfontaine5526 Agreed. Cool to know about e36's. Always wanted one

[@vukiam]

One word Salt

[@AGRetro]

What happened to the E34 M5 which was having the engine bay repairs?

[@RedishMotorsportbmw]

All the videoing is done - just needs editing to make a ‘series’. Part 1 video is already over 1.5 hours long 😬

[@AGRetro]

@@RedishMotorsportbmw Looking forward to it!

[@darrenwhite5544]

Surprised they didn't make them Aluminium like they did on the E39. Mine has done 178000 miles and the subframe is great. Yes everything around it is getting bad now 😂 I will be in touch in the near future to get my car booked in.

[@AlexCapi]

atleast you can easily replace the subframes, whereas a rusting chasis is a much bigger problem.

[@BETNCORT]

Not exactly cheap to replace the subframe....definetly a big Headache on something that should last much much longer

[@nelsonr32]

Exactly. I’d rather replace a subframe than weld in a new boot floor like an E46

[@paulpalmer8235]

Eeeeeek here we go

[@janisc1666]

2023-2008=15 Salt+heated garage=rust

[@GopNet]

it even says in description that the video was recorded in 2020 😎

[@matthewbell1968]

Blimey and there was me thinking only the e46 was at risk. This is evidently as well loved and cared for car, but underneath good heavens that's terrible. BMW must p*** themselves when Redish upload on KZbin...

[@jonners9540]

BMWs remind me of Austin Maxis and Ford Cortinas. Rot boxes. The premium brand image is corroding…

[@dcbarney8571]

Shocking really for such a well known premium brand , on another note can’t believe that the new m2 is built in Mexico and they still want mega money with cheap labour rates speaking from a bmw owner what the hell are they up to

[@tocsa120ls]

Since I change my tires twice a year, I find it a bit strange that the owner didn't catch this.

[@BETNCORT]

You can even see a lot of the rear subframe just from getting under the car a little....really should have noticed this much sooner....

[@arealsourapple]

What does your tire changing schedule on your own car have to do with this owner?

[@royfontaine5526]

@@arealsourapple indeed, stupid comment.

[@douglasmurdoch]

U can not see the subframe on the ground u need a 2post ramp or 4post to see this easily more question, why was it not picked up on MOT as an advisory before getting in this State

[@adogmcdizzle]

@@douglasmurdoch James mentioned in the video that the portion which has corroded thropugh is obscured with the subframe fitted - An MOT tester couldn't see the corrosion. James' comment is that if it could be seen, then it would be a failure.

[@Jrk450]

That’s so sad. Such a nice car being eaten away by rust. This is why prevention is better than the cure. Only costs about £90 but will save you thousands.

[@TheJammydodgerjj]

Not gone through the whole video yet, what service cost 90 pound and prevents this?

[@Jrk450]

@@TheJammydodgerjj before the rust gets to a terminal stage, you can undercoat your car using products like Lanoguard.

[@royfontaine5526]

@@Jrk450 and what about the impossible to reach areas like those highlighted in this video?!

[@Jrk450]

@@royfontaine5526you can reach that area in the video via spray application. Just have to put the car up on a ramp and spray loads. Use bendy straw/pipes to direct the spray on to the area. 👍

[@royfontaine5526]

@@Jrk450 nah, there are bits you’ll miss. Subframe removal is the only way to be sure.

[@Mrbfgray]

Quit salting the darn roads y'all!

[@Thor_Asgard_]

Damn my subframe looks like 1 year old because i directly sealed it when i bought the car and i live in Germany. How can you let your car to tits like this oO

[@robertdean3974]

SSSSSssshhh its surface rust lol pmsl powder coat the whole lot

[@Andi-cy8kj]

Poor quality… for such an expensive vehicle

[@YootubeUK]

Blimey. Wants stripping, acidbathing and some big plates added but for what that cost, what will a replacement from BMW run? Salty UK roads for you, so I wonder what E92's are like in the salty areas of US? The roads there seem to eat cars alive!

[@douglasmurdoch]

This is what happens when you move away from Aluminium front and Rear subframes bmw do better you know how, these cars are not cheap stop building them like they are

[@obsessedcloset2638]

If you think this is bad on a twelve year old BMW. Have a look at any Mk7 golf with 30k miles on it. Absolute garbage. For all the BMW haters. Do one!!!

[@Bamsebrakar2011]

The rear trailing arms on our 45K mile Mk7 e-Golf (2014) have some surface corrosion but its otherwise 😮not bad.

[@brianjackson7499]

My 2019 M2C with 17k has surface rust already on and around the rear subframe as well. Totally unacceptable for such a young car.

[@royfontaine5526]

I love BMWs (well maybe not all the current line up) but this is unacceptable. And yes, VW are worse and even more unacceptable!!

[@darrenboston342]

Looks like a lot of car can set on that rear subframe James….🤔 Such & buy new👌

[@royfontaine5526]

It’s really not acceptable is it? I’ve gone off BMW completely as a brand. Imagine spending £80k on the new equivalent POS right now only for it to end up like this not that far down the line 😬

[@thomashorneman563]

agreed...I've also been put off after E60 E87 shenanigans.... its a generational thing the EXX series cars are all built to cost but they have improved since working with Toyota so FXX GXX have better build quality....

[@BETNCORT]

I agree....but i really do love the e92 m3 too much....

[@royfontaine5526]

@@fxkraft1037 🙂

[@royfontaine5526]

@@thomashorneman563 the e60/90 seem to be rot resistant on the upper body, unlike the previous e39/46 generations. Just a shame they rot underneath. The F series are probably too new to tell but I’d wager their subframes and crappy e-coated underbodies will rot just as badly as the e60/90 series 😟