This is the type of content the internet needs, more engineers and less PR people. Keep the good content coming der8aur!!!!
@tessierrr Жыл бұрын
Its not just what the internet needs, the whole worlds needs it 😅
@German_MDS Жыл бұрын
@@tessierrr True! Very true!
@JackMott Жыл бұрын
seriously, nobody should ever talk to PR people, their job is to lie.
@tessierrr Жыл бұрын
@@kucing1087 public relations, aka pretending we care about customers when we clearly dont 😅
@ldalipis Жыл бұрын
YES!
@Dex99SS Жыл бұрын
It's been a surprising change of methodology with Intel lately. Plant / manufacturing tours, engineers giving interviews and explanations if not how-to's, and just information in general being shared in a way that they'd NEVER been keen on previously. I love it! This kind of relationship with your buying public is exactly how you gain their trust and support. You're doing it right Intel! Didn't always, lol... used to be a VERY locked down company, one that used to share nearly nothing, with everything being confidential. This though.... this is good! And when you have quality assets in people as you clearly do, allowing them to speak, showing just how qualified and intelligent your employees are. That also goes a long way into gleaming trust in your company.
@ShadowManceri Жыл бұрын
If you look closely he didn't really reveal any information that wasn't already public knowledge. Basically the only thing you got out of here was that he said that they could make the cpu's better, but won't because it's less profit.
@der8auer-en Жыл бұрын
@@ShadowManceri I also only ask questions where I know that I can get a good answer on. That's why I also picked the 9900K as example. It's kind of old tech and it's no problem for Intel to talk about it. A lot of people would try to get information about upcoming or classified tech which would just get boring as we won't get any good reply.
@HotRatsAndTheStooges Жыл бұрын
@@ShadowManceri Right, I'm sure you can dig a lot of this stuff up, maybe even more than what he goes into. But it's a good look, and I definitely got some insight that I didn't have, nor had I the attention span nor desire to do that research in the first place. I've come away with a much more in depth understanding of the fundamental stuff going on and I think that was the point.
@jagdeeprana7504 Жыл бұрын
@@ShadowManceri you walked away with that the reason they don’t do it is less profit? Firstly of course that is a metric, be real if it was you in that position it wouldn’t be any different. But that wasn’t the only metric. Intel and any company that is trying to make a reliable product needs to understand the risks prior to implementing a change. As he stated if they don’t get good data on a change they push it back to gather more data.
@ShadowManceri Жыл бұрын
@@jagdeeprana7504 The more complex process you need to have, more it will cost you in machining time, labor and materials. It will ALL make it less profitable. And then you have the competition, you can't just charge ultra-engineered BOM from the customer without eating your profits to zero. It's a hard balance to make as good product as your competition while keeping it at price customers are willing to pay. You don't always afford to take those extra steps because it will eat your profits off. I'm not saying profit is bad. But let's not bullshit about it like it's some sort of forbidden word. 26:05 the guy says it himself. Cheers.
@bringbackdislikebutton6452 Жыл бұрын
Easily one of my favorite industry interviews in recent memory.
@newdeathscope Жыл бұрын
Only one that I liked more was GN doing the EVGA wrap up.
@HotRatsAndTheStooges Жыл бұрын
I think it may have been the only one like it that i've ever seen. Like, that was just good engineering time. ANd it's not like they spilled any secrets that could give any of their competition a leg up. Just nice to know stuff for enthusiasts or people who are not "in the know" so to speak. As another commenter pointed out "there was nothing here you couldn't have learned online". Well sure but it's not an intel engineer sitting in an interview giving a masterclass in the very fundamentals of the process.
@bringbackdislikebutton6452 Жыл бұрын
@newdeathscope the evga "not 4090" overclocking video w/ Vince, Biso Biso, and crew hit me hard in the feels which is also a top recent for me...
@rdiznfriends Жыл бұрын
this guy was freaking awesome. great interview wish it was longer tbh
@naaitsab Жыл бұрын
Video's like this and the one Steve from GN recently did with the cooler engineer of Nvidia really sets these channels apart. From the run of the mill "I do benchmarks so I'm a tech youtuber" channels that would never dare to do technical interviews like this. If you know your stuff you aren't afraid to talk with experts. Keep it up, and also kudo's to Intel for the behind the scenes access 👍
@zivzulander Жыл бұрын
Agreed. I always enjoy the informative, behind-the-scenes dives into technicals. People often can be accurate in their speculations and explanations, but it's enlightening getting details from those involved with the design and manufacturing processes. PCWorld also does these types of interviews (some great ones with Dell, IceGiant, and Frore Systems, among others). TechTechPotato (Dr. Ian Cutress) also does some good technical interviews, more on the architectural side.
@Azzdude Жыл бұрын
I thought this engineer was cooler than the last...
@-opus Жыл бұрын
der8auer should have a lot more subscribers, makes you wonder how many people who follow tech channels, are actually interested in tech. Some of the largest channels are the dodgiest.
@goldfingerdash Жыл бұрын
I think these kinds of videos will also help attract more people to engineering careers. You get to do a lot of cool things that hard to imagine without exposure.
@-opus Жыл бұрын
@767corp Comparing linus to mythbusters 🤔 Good to see that you realise that ltt is not a tech channel though.
@oatmilk9918 Жыл бұрын
As a materials science and engineering student, this interview was amazing. not only was it nice to finally understand the technical details (the electrical eng stuff is not my expertise lol), but Mike explained some maths-heavy concepts really well and his diagram and explanation of it were really easy to follow. You can tell you are both super interested in this topic! Please do more interviews with engineers! Learning about the technology, manufacuring, limitations (cost, reliability) etc is so important for understanding why products are made they way they are and perform they way they do.
@SP-go6lj Жыл бұрын
Der bauer should have a podcast where he invites engineers from intel, amd, nvidia and etc to talk a bit about what goes on behind the scenes. Would be really interesting.
@jontyhood Жыл бұрын
true, but sadly, NDA 😔
@LawrenceTimme Жыл бұрын
Very interesting. I like the idea that intel have a whole team for each tiny part of the CPU even down to soldering team. Amazing.
@greebj Жыл бұрын
Maybe there's too many teams and the lack of collaboration between the PCB Warpage Team, the Die Flatness Team, the IHS Underside Curvature Team and the Retention Socket Frame Team is why Rocketlake had that issue
@richmanricho Жыл бұрын
thanks Mark! great to see engineers chatting and not PR teams interfering. enough info for enuthist without giving away secrets. nice
@stoneymahoney9106 Жыл бұрын
That was fascinating! More content like this please, it feeds that hunger for knowledge that so many of us engineering/physics overclockers simply can't satisfy any other way.
@pwarrow8858 Жыл бұрын
Talking to engineers is always fun. Every conversation is not wasted time as you always learn new and amazing things.
@emmagetya Жыл бұрын
I just bought a R16 with a i7 14700kf cpu and this put my mind at ease so much with temps. I've only ever seen mine get to the low 80s while gaming. Everywhere on the internet are people saying you need to be 60c max 70c for longevity and health. Ill listen to this engineer who went to school for this.
@GTFour Жыл бұрын
This type of more in depth engineer discussion is super interesting content. Props to intel for putting their engineers forward for this type of excellent content.
@happydawg2663 Жыл бұрын
This is pure gold, great interview!
@lemagreengreen Жыл бұрын
Great content, you don't often get this in-depth discussion with actual engineers... and no PR/marketing team involved. I never quite understood why the IHS made a return following the direct-die era of the late 90s/early 00s. I know it eases installation for OEM's and novices etc but it does seem to have been a consistent problem as far as cooling and as desktop chips seem to be reaching new record TDP's it seems like direct-die chip options could be something Intel/AMD could offer on certain product lines for enthusiasts or simply manufacturers that require the very best thermal performance. Obviously they don't want to honour warranty replacements to users who damage chips during installation but that wouldn't be expected and was never offered back when stock direct-die chips were a thing either.
@der8auer-en Жыл бұрын
The main reason is the move to LGA socket. It requires quite high pressure to ensure contact. This pressure has to be evenly distributed and without some kind of metal cover this would be much more complicated without damaging the PCB. It's mainly this plus the fact that it protects the chip and is better for very cheap cooling solutions.
@aetch77 Жыл бұрын
@@der8auer-en The IHS came to the late model Pentium 3s (tualatin), that was socket 370. Intel went through another two sockets (PGA 462 and 478) before switching to LGA. Also, at the time the die exposed chips (both AMD and Intel) were prone to the corners getting chipped off when the heatsink was installed and uneven pressure was applied.
@ruikazane5123 Жыл бұрын
@@aetch77 The Pentium 4 needed that IHS. It was so hot, a bit of a heatsink mistake was detrimental (but will not kill the CPU with the thermal protections) The IHS helped spread the heat to a larger area - it was still 180nm or 90 nm (Prescott) so not that power dense. The Pentium IIIs were cooler running in comparison
@tyrantworm7392 Жыл бұрын
@@ruikazane5123 An IHS is never needed outside what de8auer and aetch77 outlined. You are placing multiple interfaces between the die and the sinking mass, this is never thermally desirable in a passive solution. The area of the IHS is irrelevant, as heat is only conducted through the die upper surface and the heat sink/TIM would always fully interface with that conductive area.
@SoranoGuardias Жыл бұрын
I remember CPUs that had the heatink directly soldered to the socketable processor.
@Archer_Legend Жыл бұрын
Please bring more content with engineers in the future if you can. It is really informative and gives a different but true perspective on many things which are otherwise only speculated and wrong in many instances!
@pattonpending7390 Жыл бұрын
As someone who still plays on a 4790K (which has been heavily overclocked since day one), I greatly appreciate Intels research and testing team.
@erisium6988 Жыл бұрын
yeah u can overvolt overclock have 90c and those cpus dont die. Intel is very good in terms of quality of thier products. Sadly nvidia and amd gpus arent always that good long term
@404eitch4 ай бұрын
@@erisium6988aged well
@DarkSim712 Жыл бұрын
I can always appreciate direct answers from tech manufacturers to let us know their perspective on design characteristics. Great video!
@nmindz Жыл бұрын
Not only refreshing and educating, but also the conversation felt good throughout with Mark. Loved it! Hoping to see more in the future! :)
@prgnify Жыл бұрын
For people interested, what he mentions is the Arrhenius equation, and there are other models of Accelerated Failure Time. The whole field is interesting
@connorballentine Жыл бұрын
I’m so glad this information is public, thank you for doing this!
@Cooper3312000 Жыл бұрын
After working for some years supporting a fab NXP/Freescale/Motorola I really enjoy content like this sitting down with engineers picking their brains.
@jenda386 Жыл бұрын
Accelerated stability testing is super common in the pharmaceutical industry as well. When making a new drug, nobody knows the shelf life of either the active substance or the final product (e.g. tablets). So once they are reasonable confident the formulation development (e.g. tablet design + packaging) is over, they start accelerated stability testing of the batch intended for clinical trials. This has to be done to get estimate of what the drugs may look like 6 months or 1 year down the line, but you want to know within 3 months, so you can start the clinical trials as soon as possible. These are done at higher temperature and humidity (usually 40 °C and 75% RH) with periodic sampling to confirm whether the product still conforms to specification, such as active substance content, impurities, appearance and many more. If the accelerated tests pass, their results can be carefully extrapolated to 2× the accelerated test duration. So if your accelerated test shows no degradation after 3 months, you can be reasonably certain the drug is stable for 6 months. Of course, room temperature long-term stability testing is performed in parallel, because there's only so much the accelerated tests can do. So when you see shelf life indication on a drug box, its length was determined by long-term stability testing.
@useruser-ti1og Жыл бұрын
Super cool interview and nice to hear it straight from the engineers!
Жыл бұрын
This type of content must be the one that is uploaded to the internet, great job and excellent video.
@ZombieLurker Жыл бұрын
Great job! @der8auer EN Would be cool to get some more interviews with Mark in the future. Fun as well as educational to hear the insight and knowledge he has. Plenty more that people would love to hear from him if he's willing to do another interview in the future. Or just anyone else at all from Intel & AMD would be awesome. Longer interview would be even better, like an hour.
@FinnishArmy Жыл бұрын
It's crazy this dude came to the campus I work at! Super exciting to see people like Der8auer and Linus get videos of what happens inside the very labs I work daily in
@hquest Жыл бұрын
While I understand they can play around on the IHS to account the thickness variation of the die itself, so it fits on existing socket and cooling combo units, I wish they would offer a direct die product as they used to do back on the old days. As we've seen with custom kits, yours included, there are multiple benefits in using direct die cooling - with the drawback of less experienced users possibly cracking the die. Great discussion Roman.
@JJFX- Жыл бұрын
Honestly with the way everything is going I'm suspecting this may become reality at some point. As density and clock speeds continue to increase, everything will get harder and harder to cool. Direct die options seem inevitable for enthusiasts but I don't see them offering it without other safeguards in place. They could potentially modify the mount and/or put something around the die to reduce the chance of damage. At the end of the day, it'll just be another risk like damaging socket pins. If beginners know the warranty will likely not cover damage, they'll either pay to have it installed or buy a model with an IHS.
@SeventhCircle77 Жыл бұрын
I wish they would sell direct die CPU’s along with ones with integrated ihs. I may direct die cool future Ryzen 7000 or whatever it is when I buy it, but I don’t like the idea of having to rip the ihs apart. I may just end up sanding it down to be thin.
@GTFour Жыл бұрын
There’s too much risk to buyers damaging the die. Just not worth the hassle for intel. Few people crack their die and post on forums and it gives intel bad press as a product you have to e super careful with. Not worth their reputation.
@DanTDesrosiers Жыл бұрын
As someone who got into PC building and gaming over Covid, I didn't even know about the amount of interviews these channels made! This is so awesome!
@Johnwick-ed7vo Жыл бұрын
Absolutely fascinating, and I'm not a overclocker. Just the design diagram and what is allowed on camera is very informative in my opinion and if the desire ever is needed and let's face it if chips keep getting hotter then new answers are going to be needed before they burn through the silicon and leave a hole. But yeah thanks very informative
@DBravo29er Жыл бұрын
Absolutely incredible interview. Just superb. Thanks Mark!!!
@MrNedriver Жыл бұрын
I've been watching your videos for a long time, today i finally subscribed, please keep it up and hope for more videos like this "behind the scenes"
@toxygen0013 Жыл бұрын
This was a great interview. It is nice to hear the prospective of the people actually building the product. Thank you for putting this together.
@McTroyd Жыл бұрын
Really awesome detail. Love it when the engineers get a chance to speak directly -- nothing lost in translation.
@Kvaak330 Жыл бұрын
This was super interesting. Thanks for bringing us content like this and thanks to Mark for taking the time to sit down for the interview.
@PGALGA Жыл бұрын
Hope you enjoyed your visit to Oregon, Hillsboro off all places!
@fracturedlife1393 Жыл бұрын
Thought the thumbnail was Kingpin in a bad disguise. Enjoyed that, had to watch twice but was worth it. Great insight.
@childofosiris Жыл бұрын
That was actually the most informative thermal dynamics conversation I have ever heard. 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
@XDSDDLord Жыл бұрын
He did a great job explaining some of these concepts we heard about we didn't fully understand, especially, in my opinion, why CPU manufacturers don't just shave down their dies as much as possible on a technical level.
@jassenjj Жыл бұрын
It is so nice to see people that put passion into their work instead of talking heads focused on manipulating public opinion. This interview and from other channels the engineer from Nvidia and the interview with JonnyGuru are the recent ones that I've watched and remembered that actually technology used to be fun, but it's hard to see nowadays behind the clouds of PR, claims and official statements of personnel not involved with the actual engineering work.
@Im_MarkS Жыл бұрын
So much more respect for the thought and work that goes into building a cpu
@Sinflux420 Жыл бұрын
Awesome interview. 10:57 is so important--that's why I continually pick intel for my builds every 4-5 years. They just haven't had issues in my experience, even if they run hot. Love my 13900!
@haikopaiko Жыл бұрын
This is just awesome! You learn so much with every episode. Thanks Roman!
@christopherjackson2157 Жыл бұрын
Very nice interview. Would love to see more content featuring ppl who actually work in the field like this. Cheers!
@thorwaldjohanson2526 Жыл бұрын
Amazing interview! I really like your content in the past 2 years or so. Especially visiting and interviewing experts (the electron microscope comes to mind) please do more of these if possible. I don't like videos often, as I use it as a playlist of stuff I want to show others or watch again. This has definitely earned a like :)
@爷爷-q2v Жыл бұрын
A very interesting and friendly conversation between two big experts, what a pleasure to watch this video, thanks to both of you guys!
@danielabbott9312 Жыл бұрын
Love these interviews that give an inside look at the manufacturing process
@ASEKen Жыл бұрын
Welcome to the US for your visit, as always a great video.
@fintanwallis496 Жыл бұрын
This is what I come to KZbin for! Love from Australia ❤
@MistahHeffo Жыл бұрын
This was epic. Love these technical insights not dumbed down and filtered by PR types.
@toekitoeki5423 Жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot for this content, it's refreshing to hear something from so close to the source.
@marcm. Жыл бұрын
Absolutely loved this interview... More of this content or this type should I say... It's mind-blowing
@dslynx Жыл бұрын
Wasn't really information I was interested in, but glad I watched this video. Really awesome info! Thanks!
@EdwardKilner Жыл бұрын
Nice to see your guest wearing an Iron Ring, as most Canadian Engineers do. We can easily recognize each other.
@zivzulander Жыл бұрын
I had to look that up. Interesting story!
@EdwardKilner Жыл бұрын
I have attended my ceremony, plus my daughter’s, and a few days ago, my granddaughter’s. Quite gratifying. Thanks for the interest.
@JazekFTW Жыл бұрын
This is just amazing, two engineers talking in scientific terms.. LOVE IT!!
@LeeRobertsMe Жыл бұрын
All power to you Mark, thank you for your service!
@tristanwegner Жыл бұрын
Excellent combination of experts and youtuber, who knows how to arrange a video
@josephburnett5454 Жыл бұрын
Very insightful. I really appreciate the open discussion.
@Shade_Tree_Mechanic Жыл бұрын
Thank you for bringing us this awesome technical interview
@Axeiaa Жыл бұрын
It's so much more interesting when an engineer is answering questions, they actually answer! PR People are a whole load of "I'll get back to you" and "I don't know if I can disclose that" and tangents about stuff they want to market. If an engineer goes on a tangent it's still interesting because it's actually related to the question.
@alldecentnamestaken Жыл бұрын
Really pleased with these engineering interviews with Intel. Good job, keep them coming!
@aleksejjj1995 Жыл бұрын
Good discussion. Thanks for the video, Roman. Greetings from Finland.
@mechitworks Жыл бұрын
This is really interesting. Looking at how much space CPU cores take on the die, it is not a big part. But still a large part of the heat output. it seems reasonable that you need some more material, because of spreading the heat, but also getting lower thermal stress. I didn't know the thermal conductivity of the die is that high.
@coolcat23 Жыл бұрын
Awesome content and kudos to Intel for making it possible and to Roman for having the knowledge to ask interesting questions!
@AmieWea Жыл бұрын
Thank you Roman. I am looking forward to the next 15 years of usage for my sandy bridge i5.
@levirichard1450 Жыл бұрын
Thanks! It was an enjoyable conversation.
@cee8ch238 Жыл бұрын
I find it so refreshing to see a balanced perspective.
@fendel_ Жыл бұрын
Awesome content. Mark seems like such a great guy, and explained everything in a great manner. Very insightful!
@woolfel Жыл бұрын
excellent conversation. So many people complain chips aren't progressing fast enough and forget armies of engineers work their butts off to make it happen.
@mariesminutes Жыл бұрын
Awesome interview, more content like this would be great.
@EvilTim1911 Жыл бұрын
This honestly kind of put my mind at ease regarding the temps my CPU has been hitting, apparently even 100°C is within spec
@alvar891 Жыл бұрын
Did not know Weird Al Yankovic is also an intel engineer! Jokes aside this was very useful information. Great content. Keep it up man!
@zodwraith5745 Жыл бұрын
I think many enthusiasts out there would do well with more information like this to get a grip on how much thought goes into what we think might be the most mundane details. Making something "better" is never as simple as "well, can't you just do xyz?" It's nice of Intel to be letting people speak to actual engineers instead of just PR. It shows respect and faith in your consumer actually "getting it" when it's explained properly.
@davewa1099 ай бұрын
fantastic conversation. really enjoyed this
@mste456 Жыл бұрын
brilliant vid, thanks Roman & Mark
@zbrkesbris5987 Жыл бұрын
Nice video. I wish you have asked him about Intel's (integrated?) Loading Mechanism that warps substrate/IHS on 12th and 13th gen CPUs...
@parthanandi9991 Жыл бұрын
This is another brilliant video, thanks very much Roman :)
@babochee Жыл бұрын
Holy shit, this sit down was legendary! Setting the standard!
@jesseconnell1422 Жыл бұрын
Awesome interview! Thank you for this one
@spladam3845 Жыл бұрын
This was fantastic, I hope intel keeps doing things like this, I hope they appreciate the good will this generates. Great interview, super fascinating, thanks.
@chswin Жыл бұрын
Really liked this video really interesting! Would love to see more like this thank you!
@-gg8342 Жыл бұрын
I love this stuff! Getting an inside view at the physics and what-not
@illyont Жыл бұрын
This.. This right here. This is exactly what we need. I could listen to people like this talking all day long. Even if they mostly talked about the, now quite old Core i9 9900. I can understand why Intel doesn't want to talk too much in detail about the current line of products. And also, alot of these concepts are probably more or less the same even with todays parts. Would love more content like this.
@malismo Жыл бұрын
Love these deepdives! So informative, thanks. And to Intel, this guy is gold, excellent explainer.
@VVayVVard Жыл бұрын
6:00 Some people have recommended delidding the CPU and replacing it with a more polished copper lid to improve contact with the cooler. But the copper lids used for this purpose generally do not appear to be plated with nickel. Do you think this makes them more prone to oxidation, and maybe shortens their lifespan?
@devsangamkumar9684 Жыл бұрын
Thanks; just helped me revise for my upcoming physics exam.
@reyo4129 Жыл бұрын
Great Great video, Thank you to bring this to us!!!!
@Stefan-cf3fy Жыл бұрын
❤ Beautiful interview!
@iamnickdavis Жыл бұрын
Excellent conversation and content. TY.
@LeeRobertsMe Жыл бұрын
Mark - The kind of guy you can listen to for hours and learn allot from.
@t3h51d3w1nd3r Жыл бұрын
Great video, love to hear explanations directly from companies, even if they can't go into specific details, their reasoning why they do or don't do things is always interesting and insightful.
@hyunkela1431 Жыл бұрын
Very rich information Thank you very much Keep doing that 👍🏻
@simoSLJ89 Жыл бұрын
Thanks Roman! Great video, really really interesting.
@caffeinej2691 Жыл бұрын
Such topics are much appreciated
@skaikey Жыл бұрын
Wasn't sure what to expect but I'm glad I clicked on this.
@ilovehotdogs125790 Жыл бұрын
Such good content sir. Keep it coming, you're amazing.
@SoCalSuperMario6 ай бұрын
Phenomenal interview.
@aeliar Жыл бұрын
Great video, i'm not rely into direct-die cpu cooling, but it was filled with good info from somebody who actualy knows what he's doing. 👍👍
@L0wPull Жыл бұрын
Awesome.. wondering what the end conclusion of protective layer presence is 🤔
@TheRockeyAllen Жыл бұрын
Loved the discussion! Would be interesting to explore the same engineering practices in die's thermal design for mobile devices