Intel's DISASTER launch - Core Ultra 285K/265K/245K

[@KitGuruTech]

Update: MSI have confirmed that the issue where only engineering samples were recognised without a BIOS update, only applies to review unit motherboards and not retail models.

[@buyingastairwaytoheaven5252]

Well at least that’s something positive 🍻

[@SarahBytesBack-s4e]

Do you still have to start your PC without a graphic card?

[@skeetssaer2018]

I just finished watching the MSI livestream. There is no difference in numbers. MSI did not even use the X3D chips in their numbers but they made 9900X seem like a great CPU to buy.

[@ostravia]

How Embrassing.

[@maxwellsmart3156]

Couple or 3+ points: 1. Nice soothing voice as usual. 2. With the Ultra 9 using faster RAM we won't know when it's actually a factor or not, I guess we'll have to wait for a memory scaling video 3. Funny how the 9950X wins in CB23 and loses in CB24, magic in a bottle. CB and Geek Bench are fast and easy but provide the consumer with limited, if any real value or understanding as to what the numbers mean except higher better. 4. Intel gets better power consumption numbers by moving from Intel 10nm to TSMC 3nm, whodathunkit? 5. I like what Intel has done with the packaging/tiling but this process must be expensive. AMD must be making a killing by using 4nm and keeping the same packaging.

[@inlovewithmycar7085]

Good point on AMD using 4nm

[@Navhkrin]

Under normal circumstances, 3nm should have delivered such a massive performance. It would have been expensive, but they would have regained their position as gaming king, but they managed to fuxk it up

[@tomaszbyczek7611]

CB R24 - AVX, AVX-512 CB R23 - not.

[@maxwellsmart3156]

@@tomaszbyczek7611 If so, then Zen 5's superior AVX/AVX512 should put in the lead.

[@treyquattro]

my first stop on the Core Ultra 2 round-up is Leo's review. I don't think I need to see any more. Do I want to? Seems like some masochism required for the new Intel chips. Thanks for enduring the frustration Leo so we don't have to. I think I'll continue with Alder Lake for quite some time more (Alder Lake is very good!). ETA: key take-aways for me; performance is good although not astonishing. Power usage still disappointing given Intel's claims. I think the rest of the issues will be sorted out by BIOS and software updates.

[@theonlyredspecial]

well said !

[@tringuyen7519]

Watch both HUB & GN for the gaming comparison. Spoiler: 7800X3D wipes the floor with the Ultra 285K in price, performance, & power!

[@treyquattro]

@@tringuyen7519 thanks, already did! And the 9000 X3D is up next... Probably not a huge uplift however, in keeping with the new generation that seems to be focusing more on power reduction which I think most people are missing; people outside Europe anyway, where energy costs are more significant than to the average North American (currently (no pun))

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

@@tringuyen7519 Let me correct that for you: the arrow lake launch software hampered benchmarks to the point that we don't know its actual performance. After patches (which have been part and parcel with every AMD launch for the past decade) it will likely land right at the 14900k's gaming benchmarks, which is very close behind the 7800X3D. And it will without question trounce the 7800X3D every single second outside of games. It's literally 2x faster in moist media and productivity work. You should look at things from the perspective of objectivity and not as a cheerleader with pom-poms yelling for a sports team. These are pieces of hardware.

[@crazylocha2515]

​@@treyquattroalso, Steve's point about not believing the software power readings is very wise advice. And Leo's adventure to get it up and running seems to be on the milder side compared to quite a few others. Now let's see how AMD is going to screw this launch up, LoL. Another golden goose opportunity squandered?

[@QuentinStephens]

Not what I expected! But that's why we value you so highly. As, clearly, does Intel.

[@dark_matt3r_]

@@QuentinStephens they got their bros and cousins to sit in on that call 😂

[@evalangley3985]

And some reviewers were thinking Zen 5 was bad...

[@thetheoryguy5544]

ARL not bad its just cry baby gamers want their extra 5 fps.

[@EricDavidson-cx7bz]

Leo - not holding back ! 😂

[@tomevans30]

Wow great video leo, looked like such a mess up from start to finish

[@jamesjessenden7838]

Seems really weird Intel themselves have been caught out by this.

[@brandonstinnett9150]

THIS is how you do a proper review...organized and in full! Well done

[@Itsameamario-ns3se]

I kinda expected this. Intel are really struggling with everything. You simply can not fire all of your technical support team and expect this to be ready. That team would have stopped this before it got to reviewers.

[@impuls60]

I single person at Intel could have written a guide and avoided this mess. How can these simple errors occur?

[@PCPro2017]

Wow. Expected a standard review and got an honesty overdose! Have to ask if this is unusual or does Kitguru get a lot of these splatter-gun launches and have to tidy everything up for the public?

[@CatherineMitchell-br8dx]

Can't imagine Leo glossing over issues

[@KitGuruTech]

Quite the reverse - usually there is very little drama to relate. This time we had plenty and it seemed best to demonstrate as much as we could, Leo

[@KIRBYBristow]

Leo didnt hold any punches- this might be a good guide video for people having issues however ! Hopefully a lot of. these are ironed out already but interesting look behind the scenes !

[@drewnewby]

@KitGuruTech Good sir, you've earned every second to vent. Lovely thumbnail by the way, I've the same look at the dentist.

[@sureberferber9101]

PC Builders: I've got 99 problems, using Intel ain't one... 🤣🤣🤣

[@tringuyen7519]

LAMO😂😂😂

[@lharsay]

It looks so bad that Intel should start thinking about pulling an AMD and canceling all their upcoming designs based on this architecture and not releasing a new chip for 5 years until they have something new from scratch.

[@betag24cn]

how perfect comment 😂

[@mfdsuk]

Thanks Leo. Look forward to your take on 9000x3d

[@auxityne]

And this is launching right into the fist of the 9800X3D in two weeks? Good luck, Intel.

[@tehehe5929]

My bet is a lot of people are going to buy Intel anyway, because they've always done so.

[@SherylBurton-v8w]

Thanks Leo, and well, get some rest I suggest - before the next video

[@jamesjessenden7838]

Its amazing. Driver issues in modern windows on an Intel platform. What on earth is happening?

[@betag24cn]

intel fired alot of peoole and this cpu was made by tsmc, intel is in full sell the company in pieces mode, nothing good

[@SimonBennett-fw6zq]

Getting the panel of Intel experts grilling sounds like something is badly wrong and they can't identify it. Wonder if they've had to remove something quickly before they get audited by the Chinese Cyber Security Authority?

[@CatherineMitchell-br8dx]

The Chinese? Sorry I don't understand the joke

[@SarahBytesBack-s4e]

Me neither

[@festerleech4952]

The whole thing feels like a beta test rather than a ready to release product.

[@abesmissioncontrol2013]

Thanks for including the 5950X in the charts, not many reviewers are.

[@Lets_get_wealthy]

Another one running 5950x. Maybe when zen6 came out I will upgrade

[@abesmissioncontrol2013]

@@Lets_get_wealthy 5950X has enough cores/threads to remain performant for some time imo. Not expecting to upgrade for at least 5 years, barring the unforseen.

[@Torbjorn.Lindgren]

The increased memory latency is actually expected, known regression. They've moved the memory controllers away from the CPU so it now on one of the other dies which means they need to synchronize and transfer the data - some pre-launch estimates put it around 15ns extra latency, your data suggests it's a bit worse at around 20ns. Which really shows how impressive the Ryzen latency figures are - AMD have remote memory controllers too (on the IO die in their case) but it's fast enough it matched Intel's integrated controller on the old monolithic dies! And now that Intel does the same it's very visible that they're behind on latency but ahead on bandwidth - unfortunately for Intel fixing latency issues are HARD while fixing bandwidth pretty much can be solved by just "add more cache" (hence X3D). Intel MAY be able to cut the latency penalty a bit by improving settings but they really need to redesign the entire memory controller.

[@The123tactics]

Yep, we've seen it for a long time. techyes did a video on it ages ago.

[@TheAkecheta]

I watched a handful of videos to learn more about the new intel line-up. This video was the most informative. Give me the complete picture of the process. Performance and wattage are important, but want to know about stability, crashes, BSOD and whatever else may occur that the general public may experience. Well done Leo.

[@KitGuruTech]

thanks, appreciate that !

[@OtiliaStamper]

Are you doing more on this Leo? Surely not, probably a week per video

[@Dj-Mccullough]

Been building pc's for just about 30 years now, and i'll say I caught the undercurrent of THAT kind of pain in your voice upon the "one hell of a week" statement. Ive been there. Nothing more frustrating than inconsistency in new platforms.

[@samlewis-x1h]

What is up with the memory latency issues? is this new memory so different? havent hear much about it at all

[@PowellCat745]

It’s caused by Arrow Lake not the memory. The memory is absolutely fine.

[@philipjfry628]

Wonder if a BIOS update will fix that.

[@freaky425]

arrow like is tile based thus introduced a bit of latency.

[@EdnaPendleton-w1m]

oh dear, not much i can add to this - that first half of the video was a good guide for people however

[@cvasirocket1401]

Wow, the quick pop on and off ssd heatsink feature. The exploded picture of an Epyc or TR CPU. Sorry, I got distracted.

[@amdforlife5591]

Leo you Are The man. But there must be something wrong with that memory. Bandwidth is incredible and latency is the worst I’ve seen. Seems like for gaming this will negatively impact frame rates massively.

[@lharsay]

19:00 I think it was this year when a certain extreme overclocking benchmark world record was beaten by the i9 11900K because that chip had lower memory latency than anything that came out since.

[@LUCIOLedesma-f2j]

Well that was some watch - I would say Leo has lost all his hair, but, well,. you know.

[@zagan1]

Good video, see what happens in the future may get better but who knows

[@tringuyen7519]

Not going to wait 6 months for Intel to “fix” the Ultra 285K when the 9800X3D is launching next week.

[@Chill_Mode_JD]

KitGuru always gets my first click over any other channel Straight to the point with zero bullcrap just excellent coverage Love it

[@lucifersheadscarf6988]

T’was a good one from sir Leo ❤️

[@Bellestronsse]

Cant beat dour British sarcasm to properly review something without enthusiasm.

[@CatherineMitchell-br8dx]

Want a new PC next month and was hoping for choices, but so many reviews are saying that Intel is not ready for launch 😢

[@SarahBytesBack-s4e]

Ryzen looking much better

[@thetechrealist]

You must be insane to think you have options after Intel’s fumble with 2 generations 13 & 14!

[@bobsmithson8592]

Well this was not what I was expecting today 😮

[@r.s.4174]

I am sure, Intel checks all the right boxes on the ESG scorecard.

[@GameBacardi]

Leo is standing! ou wait, I remembered Steve from HarborUnboxed

[@evalangley3985]

Go back simping on their channel please...

[@inlovewithmycar7085]

@@evalangley3985 🤣

[@BurcuSule]

Good coverage leo and straight to the point too. I was hoping Intel might have had something more positive for launch, but at least when you eventually got around to some testing, they look good!

[@philipjfry628]

Once the bugs are worked through it's probably going to be a decent platform. The power draw / performance is quite impressive.

[@canarychrome7012]

thanks Leo - and wow

[@ryanrioz94]

it's a disaster 😂 anyway nice review by Leo

[@PeetamAyam]

Imagine having to play with a windows power setting for laptops to get your desktop processor working properly - surely these arent laptop processors in disguise? *cue music

[@evofreak1304]

I wanted to upgrade my good old 13700k , i'm still on the z690 platform. But i don't know.. might save the money for a 5090 in the future, seems like a bigger upgrade.

[@gymnastchannel7372]

13700k is still a nice CPU bro

[@tringuyen7519]

If you’re upgrading, AMD is your only choice. Given the utter mess of Error Lake, Intel’s LGA 1851 platform may not be long for this world!

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

Why would you upgrade every generation? The 13700k is a monster, you need to delete your FOMO.

[@smilingbandit6900]

i am here for the fustercluck^^

[@dreschaffhausen5693]

Been waiting two weeks to see a review of this!

[@Bellestronsse]

Sounds like its still a bit too soon for this platform to be released.

[@MisterB4el]

We have a good word in Russian for situation like this intel's launch - pizdec. Now is definitely worst time to build a new PC from scratch.

[@lordkittenG]

So if i want to upgrade from an 8 year old system, what cpu should i look at as an everyday driver. For gaming and productivity uses?

[@DarwinBrookes-ss6on]

This needed another month before launch. How many of these big companies are there that have no leaders who can work this out before it happen?

[@JonathanPilson-mu3rg]

What a mess 😮

[@paulturner9958]

Conference call with an Intel team of 7 IE: INTEL know its shit.

[@interceptor001]

So where do they want to go from here? Why even launch that?

[@DJDocsVideos]

Error Lake lol

[@Bellestronsse]

😁

[@philipjfry628]

Glad to see Microsoft are keeping the blue screen spirit alive in 2024!

[@jamesjessenden7838]

Microsoft have a knack of blue screens.

[@cageordie]

Very interesting. If I was building today I'd wait, which I think is what many people are advising now anyway. I have been building my own machines for over 20 years, and I am an embedded systems and software engineer, so it's not like I never ran NT 3.51 and every professional workstation version since. I did build a machine about a year ago, at that time I didn't see any great advantage in i9 over i7 in 14th gen processors, so I built a 14700K based system with the fastest DDR5 I could get for a reasonable price. Benchmark performance is above the PassMark value, but that requires the memory timing to use the highest standard setting for the motherboard. I don't see that Intel has anything to offer me today. If I had to buy now I'd buy AMD, and it looks likely their next release will push them even further ahead. Intel needs to get its head out of its arse.

[@GroundGame.]

Bro looks like he went through an intel interrogation chamber. Stay strong mate. 💪

[@KitGuruTech]

😬

[@tofu_golem]

As much as I'm normally quick to criticize Intel, this is their first generation CPU with a chiplet/tile design. If it's anything like Ryzen, it will take them a couple of generations to really get it right. I hope they figure out how to do better with idle temps than AMD does with chiplet-based processors.

[@interceptor001]

Something very strange is going on indeed. If the performance is THAT bad Intel is in some real troubles and I think heads will / need to role in that case.

[@SimonBennett-fw6zq]

If im understanding the charts, it looks like Intels best is about to get stuffed by AMD 3d ?

[@CatherineMitchell-br8dx]

That's what is looks like

[@tringuyen7519]

Watch the HUB & GN reviews. Basically, the 7800X3D wipes the floor with Ultra 285K in gaming. & the 9800X3D will be 13% better than the 7800X3D.

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

...in gaming, and after the software shakes out it will be like 10% from the absolute flagship in CPU-bound gaming situations. And literally 100% faster in use cases outside of gaming.

[@SeanGalicia]

a total crapfest - maybe all these companies are driving us to game on consoles, cause I know no ordinary person would ever go through all this to play a few games, what a laugh

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

This is pre-launch reviewer woes. If you buy this as a consumer, you won't go through any of this.

[@taloncore]

Still love this whole thing with MS FORCING everyone to move to W11.. and they cant get their patch cycles right STILL. Practically EVERY patch cycle theres some borderline major issue or full blown major issue. At least with Windows 10 every other patch cycle was mostly fine. Still resisting moving to W11 until there is no choice... that and/or start dual booting or VM'ing based on some Linux for the first time.

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

When you strip W11 down (simple script run from Titus or etc) it's identical in daily use to W10 except no compatibility/support issues and slightly better performance overall. You need to stop resisting out of principle and spend the time to set the OS up the way you like. Mine looks the same as W10 - thin taskbar, bottom left start menu, no suggestions or recommendations, no bloat processes, etc. And unlike W10 I never ever get the "computer grinds to a halt as Windows forcefully wring the storage drive like a wet towel for 30 minutes" situations.

[@taloncore]

@@CyberneticArgumentCreator I get what you are saying. but at the same time.. I didnt have to do all this crap with w10. And i jumped on W10 when it was still between RC and 1607. I didnt have to screw with it. With W11.. we have to screw with it. And still unless we use a shell replacer, cant really get W10 looks. I want my start bar on some machines NOT on the bottom. And again, Im more focused on their "new" cadence when it comes to updates.. They have all been crap. Not one single time has there been a patch w/o controversy. Ya Ya W10 had a few bad ones.. but a majority were fine. This so far does not seem to be the case with W11.

[@phillysupra]

People need to remember that Intel has been the monopoly since the early 70's. Not every generation has been good nor should we expect it to be. I've been messing with pcs since the 80s and hardware back then was a nightmare when it didn't work.

[@heyguyslolGAMING]

Damn just when Leo got his drinking problem under control; Intel launches this garbage... Welp back to drinking gasoline, lol...

[@jjlw2378]

These CPUs have potential. I think they are being held back and Intel will need 2-3 generations to figure out how resolve these issues.

[@dgillies5420]

I predicted that the chance Intel ships all new silicon with an all-new architecture using all-new Fab and all-new GPU and all-new VLSI tools for the old-timer engineers at Intel - the chance of this happening successfully in the fall of 2024 was zero. ZERO

[@mrb.5610]

Intel *must* have know there were issues .... surely ... ! So why release now - wouldn't it have made a bit more sense to get it all sorted and launch at CES ?

[@smith4235]

Well I think anyone watching this with any level of sanity will in fact just wait for X3D and maybe even into 2025 to let things get developed properly before spending money. I wouldnt do all that

[@emmaandrews1783]

I dont think ive seen Leo struggle so much since I have been watching your videos

[@Bellestronsse]

How can windows update NOT know about this platform yet?

[@jamesjessenden7838]

It looks like Microsoft have really not helped Intel out with this launch. Makes you wonder why.

[@cars291]

Great approach to getting potential DIY buyers upto speed on where this platform stands. Much appreciated 💪 I was about to place an order...😅

[@fpadams]

In the recent releases and reviews, it is not clear whether Intel or Microsoft is more in want of fixing.

[@roblox_4life-zn2bk]

Well thats me not spending money on new Intel hardware for a while

[@hothardwareforthewin-he4fz]

Good video. Some good advice too at the end. Thanks Leo 🍻

[@pixelrefresh348]

OK that's an interesting setup process to say the least!

[@philipjfry628]

That was a very exciting flashing bios light though!

[@EmmaAndrw-xp2nd]

The core i5 was always the one to get, This one seems to be very motherboard driven and their drivers seem to be messed up. MSI are usually quite good too, very surprised it was this bad

[@jonjohnson2844]

Unpopular opinion: These are impressive...got rid of hyper threading (always been more of 'look at these threads!' rather than actually delivering a real boost to performance) and massively reduced power draw. They aren't an upgrade for people with 13th/14th gen CPUs, why would you upgrade every other generation? Honestly, buy Intel shares, the next few generations of these are going to rocket, AMD will be back to their pre-Ryzen struggles.

[@dark_matt3r_]

Poor Leo can’t catch a break lately 😂 November 7th is just around the corner, bro ❤

[@rufusmctavish1164]

This hardware really looks good when you see the performance ! Likely will be ready by January.

[@The_Martinator_T-81]

Energy saving for browsing, watching KZbin. High performance for everything else that demands...well...performance. Ditch balanced mode, it's just unnecessary.

[@RainbowSunset-uq2hs]

Surely there must be something wrong with latency of that memory you are testing? 😧

[@ShaneReese-j4x]

Its like the good old days of getting basic shit to work properly - Yay ! Like my abit motherboard which kept not posting, randomly, for no reason

[@carlangaspinetree]

Great review. Thank you.

[@bthjf12003]

Microsoft pulled Windows 11 24H2 on Alder Lake last week ....

[@interceptor001]

What? 😂

[@betag24cn]

i was ecpecting only a bad product, not a bad launch too, imagi e the firmware problems down the road, microcode updates for years

[@Typhon888]

Look it’s a cellphone user pretending to be on PC.

[@MrMajicLife]

where is the disaster? rly nice cpus

[@iamahappybunny7640]

Le shambles de processore

[@amigatommy7]

Memory speed is impresive.

[@MrFredscrap]

No body would complain about Zen 5 launch after this kerfuffle....

[@CRF250R1521]

AMD trash

[@snaker9er]

Zen5 is bad

[@sortingoutthebills-dy6td]

Performance is really good in the tests. I hope they sort it all out for customers. Reviewers got the short straw. Like beta testers 😞

[@frshunter]

No it really isn't when you look at in depth reviews by many others. Gaming is way down and production is basically a wash with higher energy use in anything else not named 14the gen. Intel had to bite the bullet to reset but its not that pretty!

[@Traumatree]

So you choose all testing apps that favors Intel? Is there a reason? Where are Blender, 7-zip, Adobe, Stockfish, etc., to show how far behind AMD's Zen 5 that 285k new chip really is? This is misinformation at its best concerning the 285k.

[@billnwa2250]

Thank You!

[@ryogaming4771]

When leo has 7 intel engineers looking at him you know that s$&# has hit the fans

[@gymnastchannel7372]

I do have a choice about signing in with a Microsoft account… I can use an alternate OS if it bothers me. 😎

[@boltsandbraces6261]

This is the sign of the end of it all for intel

[@jamesjessenden7838]

I really hope not I like Intel.

[@mattirealm]

Intel and AMD are both horrible, but for completely different reasons. Intel promised SO much here and delivers so little compared to promises! They have MAJOR issues with Raptor Lake chips and didn't admit anything until pressured. They stayed on 14nm FOREVER and never really upped core count. AMD was on a roll with Zen until Zen 5% They RUSHED that crap to market and lied about it to boot! They still don't have good memory controllers (one place Intel is FAR ahead). They have screwed over the market by letting 7800X3D chips go scarce in preparation for the "greatest chip of all time" the 9800X3D /s. Probably has 5% up on 7800X3D, maybe?! I think you are right on with your review. Just like with the 14th Gen, I do think things will improve over the next 6 months, but clearly it wasn't ready. I am most disappointed that we haven't heard one word about "rentable units" from Intel lately. Hope it isn't dead, or barring that, maybe it was only going to roll out with Panther Lake (2026 rumored)?

[@charlesnix8314]

Intel's new launch and windows 11 24H2 and partner motherboards are quite the clown show.

[@CorinneBurkhardt]

I havent watched any other videos on this yet, but wozzers, thats a fucster muck indeed. agree

[@dark_matt3r_]

That CU-DIMM stuff is wild……

[@impuls60]

Insanly misleading charts for gaming?! 8200Mhz on new system while most 14gens runs 7600Mhz. No hyperthreading will show an absolute bloodbath loss in games that uses 16 threads. Intel 14900k running at 5Ghz in synthetics because of powerlimit with ecores, but I can assure everyone they run at 5.6-5.7Ghz IRL in games. This is such an non gaming cpu.

[@CyberneticArgumentCreator]

Slow down and learn about the platform before you mash out things like this. The Arrow Lake platform specifically supports massively faster RAM than anything else in existence, it's a distinct platform unique advantage. 8 P cores plus 8 active E cores in this gen will be more processing power for 16 threads than 8 P cores plus hyperthreading. So that makes no sense.

[@daunted2322]

unfortunate.

[@canarychrome7012]

yes, summed up well in one word. shitshow also works.

[@UltimateBNA]

no more intel era, intel is dead for me 😭

[@RohiniSaraf-yc8bp]

The performance looks good - at the minute, but its likely to change next week. And there was me thinking AMD had the worst launch of 2024. Something new every day

[@SimonBennett-fw6zq]

Looks 'OK'

[@proklet4694]

WOW...

[@napoficial7123]

Before buying it, wait until bugs callopse 😂