Intel's hits back at AMD! New CPUs detailed!

Intel has detailed their updates to Raptor Lake 14th Gen Gaming CPUs as well as given a taste of what to expect for Meteor Lake CPUs coming in December!
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[@Lolmontaz]

I've been into pc building for years, love gpus love cpus love ram speeds love effiency love that these tiny chips can draw a million watts, but man... the last couple of years, i just can't be bothered anymore, i think my love for everything has just been crushed because of the ever growing greed of the companies. It used to be an exciting world, nobody thought about prices because we all knew what to expect, now we're all afraid of what's coming out because we know its going to be more expensive every year, and if you want to do any form of gaming nowadays you have to have the latest stuff because everything runs like s*it. It sucks.

[@AntzuPC]

Well said brother. I am just like you, and one point I'd like to make is that even if some people can afford the king of the hill, what good is it for them when you have no one to play with, since everyone who isn't made out of money can't afford to game anymore. The only games my friends play anymore is LoL and CS:GO, and those can be played on a potato.

[@Pantherman1979]

Yea, same here, I've had this computer now for 5 years going on 6. I got the Ryzen 5 2600X when it came out (probably should've waited for the price to drop in hindsight) and would usually be looking to build something new in the near future. But now, with prices what they are, I'm looking into overclocking because it wouldn't be worth buying a new graphics card (Current GTX 1660 with 2GB RAM), CPU and motherboard. I remeber when I could build a (Mostly) new system for $500 or less; keeping the keyboard, mouse, HD and monitor (not graphics card) and everything else new. I've been building since '96 and yea,,,,,, this is not what it was meant to be, or worth it anymore.

[@monad_tcp]

Motheboard manufacturers are so full of themselves that's literally better to buy server motherboards now.

[@definitelynotchadfish]

@@Pantherman1979if you happen to live anywhere microcenter there is a bundle right now for a 7700x, MSI B650 Pro board, and 32 GB 6000 mghz RAM for 400. Only reason I just upgraded my pc. But if you don’t live near MC you’re looking at about 700 dollars for that

[@moltenbullet]

It's not just the companies' greed though. It's inflation across the entire supply chain plus global issues hampering that supply chain further. Workers demand more, people demand more, even where manufacturing used to be cheap. Materials get increasingly scarce and expensive to procure. Political issues and tussles are causing trade to become bottlenecked and very expensive. Frankly, a typical middle class income of 10 years ago would probably feel like you're in borderline lower income now. And that means, unless you've been pushing your income up and up (ironically, if everyone did that, it would continue to lead to more inflation), you're likely to feel like you can afford less and less as the years go by.

[@gmualum08]

Here's hoping that AMD has in their pocket the performance/efficiency combination that they achieved with AM4 for AM5. I simply love the performance of my 5600x for 65w

[@turgsh01]

I have the same one too and ya, it's awesome combined with my RTX 3080. I'm staying away from AMD's first gen LGA socket for myself and the clients I build for, but I too am hoping the 2nd gen will be awesome and not have that thermal issue anymore.

[@NowThatsPCGaming]

They do. The 7600/7700/7900 are all 65w CPUs.

[@drmcweazel]

7700 seems like a fine 65W offering to me. Bit pricy, though. 7600 is probably fine, too, but I wouldn't personally go for any 6 core CPU after being on 8+ for the last generation. If 6 is fine for you, have at it.

[@beachslap7359]

​@@drmcweazelit's not about cores, it's about the cpu performance.

[@bungersinyourarea]

Aye, have a 5600x in my new build, it's been a champ

[@philg8556]

I would love to see you guys do a BIOS settings education series for both Intel and AMD boards.

[@spacehead74]

Yeah, these chips that push towards 6ghz and run ddr5 are certainly not plug-and-play. Considering how expensive x670e and z790 boards are, the tech should just work.

[@strongislandx]

@@spacehead74 it is plug and play for stock settings. The tuning comes into play for overclocking which is the way it should be.

[@TheAshfyr]

Problem is that the OC speeds are what's being advertised, not the stock speeds. At least for DDR5 for sure.

[@AB-80X]

@@TheAshfyr It's still very much plug and play, at least with the intel stuff. The AMD is just unstable as is, even when you just let the BIOS run its normal controlled OC settings. With Intel you just enable XMP and Multi Core Enhancement after your OS install, and you're off to the races.

[@christopherpetersen342]

I have to give the "stacked" -> re-usable thing a big "sort of". If you've got an interposer or are using silicon as a mini PCB to connect chiplets, it's a relative no-brainer to mix and match process nodes. You're tying them together just like anything else with "wires". Stacking means lots of stuff needs to line up perfectly to both work (move data/power where it needs to go) and not break (leak them into places they shouldn't go).

[@crayoneater_1699]

Can only hope that AMD continues to be competitive, or else we could be in a situation like the 4-core i7s again. well this blew up

[@christophermullins7163]

Honestly, 13900k or 7950x3d is plenty for years to come. We will be fine..I promise.

[@joshuareynolds6958]

You have just hurt my 4790's feelings😂😂

[@reypedrof]

Intel needs a comeback, they are taking a beating from AMD

[@crayoneater_1699]

@@joshuareynolds6958 Not like they were bad CPUs or anything, there was just marginal improvement between generations for a little bit.

[@nunya3163]

Sitting here, reading this on my laptop, running strong on a 10 year old 4-core i7.

[@chevychris3819]

I just built my first pc with a i5 12600kf. Maybe one day I'll go to the i9 14900. But thanks for all the help I think I've watched 3 years of your backlogged videos in a week. I had so much fun building the pc can't wait to build another one.

[@kionera96]

Go check old gen i7's, they still cost as much as modern i5's that are much faster. It's pretty much always better to just get a new motherboard with a new mid-tier CPU on Intel platforms.

[@Byfils]

Kinda seems pointless, I’m using my 10900k, and planning to do so for many years to come. (Imo). It’s your money, so as you wish.

[@fynkozari9271]

Damn, I'm about to build my 3rd pc. I make a new one every 6 to 7 years. Latest hardware will make u go broke.

[@Glornak]

Not that many games nowadays, including new releases, even fully utilize a 10th gen i7. Only really need an 13th gen i9 if you're playing something like late game Factorio where there's a shit load of entities to keep track of or if you're running a Switch emulator.

[@Piotr_Majchrzak]

@@Glornak Considering average utilization yes, but.....stutters come from these short bottlenecks, and every new generation brings more L3 cache and better memory controllers allowing faster RAM, which helps to avoid the stutters and improve 0.1% lows. From the other perspective, poor optimisation is the factor , which fuels demand for latest hardware available.

[@TheMattaBase]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one, I have been facing similar memory issues with my 7950x3D, currently regretting not going Intel... As always fun video, thanks for making them :) (everyone involved)

[@Sgt_SealCluber]

My ASUS motherboard back with a 3770k had the same overvolting problem. Auto voltage would push like 1.2-1.3v at stock 3.9ghz even though my OC only required 1.28v for a stable 4.7ghz.

[@watercannonscollaboration2281]

Foveros I think was first introduced in Lakefield, that 1-off big-little series of CPUs before Alder lake launched. Considering they were using it for mobile, it could be a more laptop-focused application

[@blahorgaslisk7763]

The first time I heard about anything Foveros it reminded me of the Foveon sensor. Now I don't know that they have anything really in common, but the Foveon photographic sensor stacks the red, blue and green sensors on top of each other. On a "normal" sensor they are placed side by side, or in a patern on a single plane. Between each color "pixel" there's a thin copper trace. This means that the surface area of each color sensor is a bit less than one third of the area for the three color sensors. With the Foveon sensor they are instead stacked on top of each other, thus the total area covered by sensor cells are more than three times larger than with a conventional sensor. There is more to it, naturally, but that's the big thing about the Foveon sensor. Noe the Foveros technology used by intel stacks functions in layers on top of each other which in theory allows for a higher density. The similarity in name might be totally coincidental. At least I haven't found anything suggesting there's a connection. I just thought it was a funny coincidence.

[@zorbakaput8537]

That's not what was suggested by Ian Cuttress in his recent report on Meteor Lake iirc.

[@TheOMT]

Thermal excretion sounds like the morning after Taco Belle

[@FPP_Tech]

Probably a bad buy for most people. If you have 12th or 13th Gen, not worth the upgrade. If you have an older cpu, do you really want to buy a new MoBo on the last year of the socket? Better off waiting for Meteor, or going with AMD if you have to upgrade now. I am Loving the effeciency gains though, Especially on the higher end. Also, Keeping a socket for 3 gens like they just did needs to be their new standards (or more).

[@MrMcbear]

That's the main reason I stuck with AMD Ryzen.

[@FPP_Tech]

@@MrMcbear same. I like knowing I don't need a new MoBo every other year.

[@Furball-8994]

The way he was talking about the new Meteor Lake design structure. We may be looking at a am4 type of socket longevity from intel.

[@FPP_Tech]

​@@Furball-8994 wouldn't that be great? The 2 generation cycle was terrible. Big reason I've leaned AMD over the last few rounds.

[@halo2bounceguy]

Yeh I still have a 10700k with my 4090, which works perfectly fine since most games are GPU limited at 4K. I'll upgrade once AMD has their next generation and I know the socket designs will stay the same for years.

[@mylife447]

Loving the videos lately. I lost my mom a few days ago and have been in a dark place. Your videos have been keeping me afloat during this time. Just wanted to say thanks for what you do.

[@shanent5793]

Chiplets are different from "glued together desktop CPUs." Zen 1 dice were complete SoCs that could be used solo as a CPU. Chiplets have to assembled to function as a CPU

[@DreadyBearBoi]

I think they don’t do the 15% price hike, they’d honestly be pretty suicidal in the current market to try pulling that. Much better and easier for them to take a slight margin hit because that’s what will support demand for the product.

[@daiphelion7002]

The thing about the naming is weird, it's not like they don't have some measure of precedent after Devils Canyon which was a Haswell refresh. Stick a '90' in there and it's done

[@fubardad8892]

@Jayztwocents would you recommend waiting for the meteorlake or just go with the "new" raptorlake in Oct? Im currently building one for myself while i plan to give my son my 5800x3d box.

[@fightingfalconfan]

I got 12th gen i9 earlier this year in a fractal ridge case. Pretty happy with it. I don't have a need to upgrade at all. Only thing I see myself doing is getting two extra monitors for the immersive gaming I once had when the original Modern Warfare 2 was new. But intel 12th gen paired with a 4070 is rock stable.

[@cosminlesutan3574]

For me its great news... i have a 12900k on a DDR4 board... so in 2-3 years when they get very cheap i get a nice upgrade without changing everything

[@killer01ws6]

Cool updates Jay, i have a 13900KS running it with a chiller, so I have above stated speeds and yes, needs the chiller for that OC lol. Nice to see the next build I do down the road will be back to a more normal power and cooling type setup. I will run this rig several years unless something dies and it makes me upgrade.

[@bobhilbig7704]

Jay you're lookin good man. Watched an older video and your progress lookin good. Im on the same trail!

[@kaede15]

That sounds all very nice. My only concern is: ARE THEY GOING TO CHEAP OUT ON PCIE LANES AS USUAL?? Cuz I’m sick and tired of being told “you can only use 1 (ONE) full PCIE 16 lane otherwise you need to look elsewhere like OLDER gen threadripper or Xeons etc…

[@Elkarlo77]

Yes, 24 PCIE Lanes is to few. Atm there is the 7945WX comming as nice low Core (16) count Threadripper (important for Windows Server Lizenzes.) with 64 PCIE Gen5. Intel got the W52465X as a nice 4.7ghz 64 PCIE Prozessor or as los budget a W3-2435. A Desktop Prozessor with 32 Lanes would be nice: 8 Lanes Chipset, 16 Lanes PCI, 2x4 Lanes for NVME. This would allow fast Desktop with lot of Drive Connection ATM the Drive Connection is the biggest Problem, since the move from SATA, you have big Pipelines for Data, but only so few.

[@christopherramsay5517]

Yes I agree preferred minumum 40 lanes.

[@Amirpy.]

I have the same problem with the AMD build! That is surprising that they cannot solve this simple issue! Looking forward to seeing your 14th gen built !

[@fredygump5578]

Thanks Jay! I asked the internet about this as recently as yesterday, but zero comments about this specific point! I was guessing that the 13900ks = 14900k... It makes sense that the process is improved and all the "bins" have shifted upwards. I am tempted by the "ks" to make my CAM simulations run better, but I'll wait for the 14900 release to see which way the prices are going.

[@FiendFyreNyx]

Hey Jay, which system of fans and software would you recommend over the other? The Lian Li uni fan and L-connect ecosystem, or the newer Corsair iCue link. I havent bought my aio or case fans for my new build, but I want them to stay within the same ecosystem.

[@TheCreepNDeath]

I have a Ryzen 9 7950X3D, 4080, Asus mb, 32g Kingston Fury Beast 6000, windows 11 and it has been very stable. Only one glitch reboot since I've had it. Granted, I don't overclock or tweak around with the settings like Jay probably does but still.

[@ed-305]

I’m thinking of doing an identical build tbh, how’s the avg fps in titles like COD if you play that

[@TheCreepNDeath]

@@ed-305 Got mine from Digital Storm. I don't play COD but I'm playing Destiny 2 in 4k at near max graphics capped at 120 fps and 120hz refresh rate for butter smooth gameplay. Running 3 monitors. 42inch 4k for game, 24 in 4k for Destiny Item manager, and one 27 inch older tv for KZbin and MSI afterburner for system stats. At hard gameplay the gpu runs around 70-75% usage and the cpu does not even break a sweat @ around 5% usage. The only way to get the cpu to break 10% is some sort of benchmark or stress test.

[@martinkrauser4029]

our 3D-cache Ryzens won't overclock all that much anyway, don't worry about it IMO

[@ed-305]

@@TheCreepNDeath thanks for details man really appreciate it! Will give this build a try

[@zebrapluto530]

Jay should try resetting the CMOS then ONLY set his EXPO speed. See if that works before messing with other settings. 'Cause nobody appears to have the problem he does.

[@spellcrafter23]

Yeah, I usually wait for 2-3 generations before I even consider upgrading. The cost/performance isn't really worth upgrading every time a new chip releases.

[@theghostofthomasjenkins9643]

same, even then i try to stay 1 gen behind. went from a 9th gen to 12th here. 99% of the performance jump is invisible to the human eye.

[@MrSecurity.]

I literally just bought a 13700k. And now you're telling me they're making new ones. I swear to god. This is just like that time. I just bought a 1080 and then the 1080 TI came out a month later

[@madafact2784]

you are absolutely right about the mobo features being turned on, i myself have had my 12700kf at 5ghz all p core and 4ghz all ecore for 3 years now, and temps reach 73c under cinebench r23 and gaming im in high 40s to low 50s... keep up the good reviews Jay!

[@TSgotstolengoddamm]

ever since i upgraded from my 7400 (to a 13700k) i've been very happy since every game i run feels snappy and fast (and now my 3060 isnt bottlenecked) and before anybody says oooo poor paring with a 13700k and a 3060 i'd just like to say my games have always been benefiting from cpu upgrades rather than gpu upgrades (as they're all simulation heavy games rather then graphicly intensive since i dont really find interest in the newer titles like "cyberpunk" or "starfield" i've always enjoyed games like "cities skylines") and those games actually use like 3% of my gpu and like 70% of my cpu

[@TalesOfWar]

I saw a similar kind of jump in things like Cities Skylines when I upgraded my 8700K to a 5800X. Not quite as big a jump as you, but very noticeable. It was a much bigger boost from when I went to a 2080 Super from a 1080, or from that 2080 Super to a 4080. Other games obviously saw a rather massive boost when going to the 4080 lol.

[@anteep4900]

i know what you mean man. im an ultra high end gamer so i went AMD this times and its nuts

[@FrostSe7en]

Jokes aside about Foveros, part of the appeal is the way Intel did it, it's supposed to be cooler and more power-efficient than AMD's approach, whereas AMD incurred a small penalty in that area going from monolithic to chiplets. So it's not really apples to apples. (Although also keep in mind this info is from 2020-2021... may have changed)

[@Jagerhoffer91]

Do you think intel will ever use a similar chiplet set to amd since I only see the gluing just becoming a problem with constant heat fluxing. Sidenote: What do you think of Linus saying there will be not LTX 2024

[@christianb.341]

Glue is glue… you made my day! Thank you for providing such great content in a continuous and quite individual way! By the way - where are your glasses? 😅

[@blendpinexus1416]

as long as the two stay competitive than we'll be enjoying many years of interest

[@Machinery_Designer]

Any body know if the memory controller will be better on the 14th gen?

[@impuls60]

It'll sure as shit beat the 12th gen.. But you need a capable mb and ram too

[@Sadew42]

Huge thing to consider with the Dark Base Pro 901: You cannot safely use 6x of their 140mm UHS fans. The power draw exceeds the rated limit of the SATA Power connection to the fan hub.

[@kaseyboles30]

When talking about the glue comment I half expected to say "Intel seems to have now sniffed the same glue"

[@Lt.Shineysides89]

I'm on a 10700k considering going for a 14700k depending on the price when it launches if not then i'm going for a 7800x3d not had anything Amd for years so would be willing to give them another go.

[@Shatterfury1871]

Give AMD a chance? Bud, they have the majority of PC CPU market for some time. You should REALLY look into AMD, they next 8000 series is rumored to be a beast.

[@benjaminsmekens2344]

I certainly wouldn't go to a 14700k as that is the last gen on the current Intel socket, and you'll have to completely replace your platform anyway. AM5 may make sense but personally I would wait if I was on a 10700k.

[@anteep4900]

switched to AMD after being with intel for about 10 years by goin for a 7800x3d, my god its easily the best cpu ive ever had and none of my friends with intel cpus can match me, AMD is back to being the leader - reminds me of the AMD Athlon 64 days

[@TheGameBench]

The only CPU in the Raptor Lake refresh that is remotely interesting is the i7, because it's getting a core count boost. With everything else looking to be a pretty much barely any improvement from RPL, I don't see where they're going to get off charging a premium. I guess we'll have to see when they're released. Meteor Lake def looks very interesting. I could see myself replacing my current laptop with one.

[@SkateClipsAndTips]

Greed, now a days it's about charging a premium while downgraded the quality

[@TheLinkhawkins]

It's great to hear from you gamebench. I am looking into the i7 refresh to upgrade my 12-100f lol. Make better use of my ARC a770.

[@jesh879]

Intel CPUs are much more expensive to make than AMDs. They cannot afford to sell them much cheaper. 12th and 13th gen have hit prices where profit is minimal and retailers get 0.

[@InnocentiusLacrimosa]

​@@jesh879is there any data behind that statement?

[@jesh879]

@InnocentiusLacrimosa MLiD has cost analysis on his channel. He has data on wafers interconnects etc. It's not a controversial statement. The whole point of AMDs Zen architecture is to let them design only one core and use it across server, desktop and mobile. It is designed to leverage chiplets to save cost. You should not be surprised when it is cheaper to produce than Intel's designs... He also has people at many retailers who can tell him product cost and what they get out of it. Intel CPUs are on the shelf because they draw people in to make other purchases. They do not make money on them.

[@michalwiktorow2188]

Foveros: 1) Cheaper better 2) more components to fail 3) heat, heat .. heat!

[@husicjasmin]

That cpu "forgetting" you mentioned at the end in regard to memory happens to me also sometimes. I have 7800X3D. Wasn't exactly sure it was that until now.

[@theghostofthomasjenkins9643]

AMD makes good stuff, but it seems like there is ALWAYS something abotu them that boggles the mind. like the one gen that couldn't support more than 1 stick of RAM.

[@BerserkPublishing]

This takes me back to the good old days of the late 80s or early 90s when I was just starting out in Computer Engineering tech and development. Instead of tweaking the power, we used software solutions to ramp up performance. This new architecture may lend itself to software solutions that will utilize the caches and cores in more efficient manners than say, Windows. It also will allow software app companies, including games to take advantage of the new architecture. We already know AMD has decided to start heading this way as well. Who knows, maybe a little birdie warned them. Windows 11 already takes advantage of the p/e core architecture. No doubt, given what we saw happen with Windows 11 and hardware, five years from now Microsoft could pull the same stunt when it comes to chiplet CPUs.

[@KanHazKat]

On an i9-9900k and was on the fence about going AMD or Intel for my upgrade but now I'm leaning i9-13900k once 14th gen launches and the prices, hopefully, come down on 13th gen.

[@VatiWah]

im on 9900k.. yeha options is 13700k, 14700k or wait for arrowlake. but arrowlake is 1 year away probably cpu AND mother board is gonna be super expensive for at least a few months after release.

[@Shatterfury1871]

WTF do you need that kind of CPU for? It is an overkill even for 4090. 😅

[@VatiWah]

​@@Shatterfury1871 physics simulation for blender and getting +60fps in starfield rofl.

[@ztrapo9093]

Why are you so broke bro who cares

[@Shatterfury1871]

@ztrapo9093 Lol. 🤣🤣🤣 It's a fuc&ing graphics card, you don't actually need it.

[@truth2life_]

another great video!!!! thanks for the update J

[@backslapped2851]

I also had the issue with memory, exactly as you describe, changing the motherboard fixed the issue.

[@rockdem0n]

I am shocked they are not doing a new chipset, like the 4770k and Z87 then the 4790k was just a few tweaks and Z97 which brought NVME support because buying in so close to the tail end of DDR3 wasn't enough of a twist of the knife. Yes I am still bitter 9 years later because I have been stuck on the same platform for that long after buying a 4770k weeks before the refresh was announced. All I have to say is I expect the new parts for my AM5 build that have started to roll in to last the test of time as their predecessors have, maybe not almost a decade, but I am not doing this again in 2 years unless prices drop by at least 50% on motherboards and GPUs especially, Actually looking at the market motherboards, GPUs, and Windows, if you are unlucky enough to need a new license for whatever reason, are the only things that really feel unreasonable.

[@Wahinies]

I hung onto my 4670k waiting for 4770k and 4790k prices to become reasonable which never really happened so went to a 3600 and hung with that a few years then recently threw in a 5800X3D. Very happy with the platform and also still bitter at Intel.

[@dongodlyduffy776]

same happened to me, bought an i7 4790k + z97 mobo + r9 390x literally RIGHT before the new Skylake chips were announced + Nvidia 1060/rx 480

[@protator]

This is all very interesting and the efficiency gains are great, but I'm not going to upgrade to the old/current socket.

[@fynkozari9271]

Good thing about old tech, u pay less and get yesteryear performance. Which is not bad at all. Performance doesn't go down, says Jayz2cents. Only the ceiling goes up .

[@mkuhnactual]

Hey Jay, is that memory problem you were describing a problem with all the AMD X3D's or just the 7950X3D? I was considering the 7800X3D but don't want to end up with memory problems you're describing.

[@beardcules4820]

New builder here. Setup will mainly be used for gaming and video editing. Should I go with 13th or 14th gen i9 or get the 7950x3d? Will most likely pair ir with a 4090

[@Natedaskate]

I’m yet to find a reason to upgrade from the Ryzen 5900X. Such a beast, does everything that it needs to

[@everythingrc2324]

Wait till Ryzen 8000. It’s crazy

[@yaznool]

There's no reason to "upgrade" it. I have two systems, my upgraded 7800x 3D 7900XTX and my FX8350 with GTX1070, The latter is obviously starting to struggle. 12/11 year CPU

[@VadikRamm]

Product roadmaps are so inconsistent nowadays. Intel for instance, there were reports that 14th gen would be LGA1851, now we learn that it's yet another refresh of the LGA1700 socket. In May I have upgraded from 12900K to 13900K to benefit from faster memory speed in 4x16 configuration, thinking that 13th gen would be the last generation processor for my motherboard. Now that I know 14th Gen has a potential to bump up performance even further, makes me question, did I make the right decision investing in 13th Gen when I could have jumped from 12 to 14?

[@impuls60]

We dont know yet.. 14 gen might be the same cpu only clocked higher. 14700k is supposed to have 4 more ecores. Im jumping from 12700k to 14th gen if the memory controller is slightly better than 13th gen.

[@VadikRamm]

@@impuls60 13th gen is better than 12th gen in terms of memory controller speed. I am currently able to run 4 sticks at 5600mt/s whereas with 12th gen I could only run them @4800mt/s.

[@user-mh6ie9wm6m]

You made the right call. The 14900k is supposed to be a small bump in perf. I'm talking only 3-5% as far as Intel's own documents say. I believe that the 13900k is a good place to end on this socket.

[@itsBenChang]

14th Gen really should be called like 13th Gen version 2. Meteor Lake was originally planned as 14th gen. Intel is using the Raptor Lake Refresh as 14th gen now. Since Meteor Lake was focused on power efficiency, the performance of the desktop version would not be better than 13th gen so it was scraped. The Raptor Lake Refresh will most likely be marginal improvements. These chips already use too much power and high clock speed which run way too hot. Meteor Lake is like a reset to lower the TDP, etc.

[@braydenlev4776]

I am sadly stuck with a B560M-C motherboard, the only issue I have is not knowing my CPU compatibility limits, without a budget on the CPU, what direction should I go? Working on a PC is sketchy to myself so I wouldn't want to just fully replace the motherboard if I can just stick with it for now.

[@Aleaf_Inwind]

The B560M-C is only compatible with 10th and 11th gen Intel CPUs (i.e. i5 10600k, i7 11700k, etc.), anything beyond that and you'll need a new motherboard.

[@joaquins90]

Jay!! I've got trouble with memory training problems, at least I think that's it. Could you please expand on how to deal with that?? Booting after cutting power is a nightmare, not so much if it remained plugged in, but sometimes still. Sounds like what you mentioned there at the end. I get that with some older gen intels, and is driving me crazy, I just leave it powered on.

[@mankvlpwnz]

Just bought 7800X3D should be good for gaming :D

[@roccociccone597]

I don't particularly care about the refresh but meteor lake seems cool and I really want to see how it performs. I might buy a Linux laptop with one of these in it. My old think pad with fedora needs to be retired :D

[@roccociccone597]

@@100Bucks What are you even talking about. What are you referring to I didn't mention anything remotely related to your response.

[@100Bucks]

@@roccociccone597 refresh

[@orangecat1596]

@@100Buckswtf are you even talking about? The guy didn’t even mention any of thid jesus….

[@100Bucks]

@@orangecat1596 my bad for misunderstanding. I thought he meant refresh rate

[@dmand1111]

I'm still on Intel 8th gen. I really need a new CPU but I don't know what to do. I wish they would tell us how many generations the 15th Jen node will last

[@stealthhunter6998]

Is there any good guides on how to tune motherboards to not fry a cpu? I didn’t know that was happening/a thing

[@InfiniteImp42]

Jay, you might be able to use that Expo memory at its rated speed on your new Intel build. Last Christmas I built a 7950X system and was just having constant untraceable lockups so after 2 months of troubleshooting I replaced it with a 13900K system. The G.Skill DDR5-6000 Expo kit I bought for the AMD works perfectly at 6000 on the 13900K using the DOCP profile.

[@OGSkumse]

Could it be a motherboard issue? I've been running a 7950X3D with a G.Skill DDR5 kit @ 6000MT (rock-solid I might add), on an Asrock Steel Legend board for half a year now. I've only ever seen memory retraining after bios updates, but they are fast and far between.

[@p00ner]

I’ve had my 10850k oc’ed to 5ghz all core for a year and a half and I see no reason to upgrade to all new platform for a little bit of performance.

[@SkateClipsAndTips]

I got upgrade my i7 10700 to the 10700k and oc it, but I am not smart with cpu overclocking. I don't want to risk fucking something up, lol

[@rustler08]

Depends on the game you're playing. Most games are single-core intense due to poor multi-core optimization, so if you play any games that are more CPU-bound than you might expect (Destiny 2, CP2077, and Starfield all come to mind), you might be shocked at the gains you'll see. For reference, a 13600k and 13700k offer 150-155% of the single-core processing performance of your 10th-gen . I actually experienced this myself in Destiny 2. I was using a 3700X thinking it was just fine, but was always shocked at the lack of massive performance uplift as I went up in GPU tiers (2080 to 2080 Ti to 6900XT). Finally, I swapped to a 7600X and I saw my FPS shoot up 50% compared to my old results, just by replacing it with a superior CPU.

[@rustler08]

@@SkateClipsAndTips Why? There was like nothing to be gained there. At least upgrade to an 11th gen.

[@SkateClipsAndTips]

@@rustler08 yeah I didn't feel like it was worth it in the first place to go with the k variant. I am honestly happy with my setup as is

[@ronaldlucas4365]

I have a 10900K. Only thing I upgraded during the Panorama was when I got a 3090 during launch. I’ve been satisfied with my rig but I know it’s time for a upgrade. I haven’t decided if I will continue with Intel.

[@f2cmadmaxx]

It's your 7950X3D chip that's the problem - i had very similar issues with my new X3D chip, replaced everything, fiddled with all sorts, would behave fine until you started doing anything with memory speeds - replaced the CPU and it's super stable and i can throw all the memory tweaking at it that i want to.

[@dalet8777]

Went full AMD on my new build.

[@axcn4733]

So?

[@AdroSlice]

I splurged and paired a 7600 with a 4070 for a hopefully decently efficient system. Used the a4-h2o since the dan c4 doesn't exist anymore, and I'm pretty happy with it so far.

[@innocentbystander3317]

​@@axcn4733 So he's a smart buyer. Speaking of being smart, you clearly aren't. Stay aloof, it goes great with ignorance! 😘

[@Zxanonblade]

@@innocentbystander3317Wow somebody had a bad day

[@innocentbystander3317]

@@Zxanonblade So?

[@Babsdoproductions]

Currently have a 64 core Threadripper non-Pro with 256GB of RAM and it would take a lot to switch back to anything less, especially since the Threadripper Pro is out there with far more RAM possible and then new dual Epyc CPUs on top of that. Instead of stacking chips, I’d say just make the processor bigger, I don’t care if they end up being the size of a floor tile. We need more cores and motherboard and case designs can be altered to infinity to make it work, small computing had its time and now we need to get back to performance by any means.

[@erikjoven2388]

100% - at a certain point - it doesnt matter if the actual CPU is 10% smaller. I would happily take a a CPU that is 2 or 3x the size of the 13900k if it meant a significant performance boost.

[@fynkozari9271]

But does chrome still acting funky windows 10 256gb ram? Mine 16gb ddr4 constantly freezes on windows 10. 16gb is more than enough right?

[@MrMcyeet]

Hoping for a few quick and dirty suggestions; I currently have a 8086k and an 3080 (10g) paired with 32g ddr4 memory and a 750w corsair PSU. I have ~600usd for an upgrade, what should I be looking at/for? I don't do any professional or rendering work, mostly just a bunch of gaming.

[@billyg1574]

Thank you for having the courage to say that Jay. 25yr veteran systems admin., and we all saw the writing on the wall a year ago. For what it's worth, I don't know where the root of the issue lies, more with the chipmaker(s) or with DDR5. This is the bumpiest rollout of a DDR spec I can remember.

[@ElTeeger]

Excited for the new gen ❤

[@Ladioz]

Yeah me too. had the 13900k long enough its time for an upgrade

[@ElTeeger]

@@Ladioz I’m still on 9700k and that feels long enough.

[@jaylc]

Intel and nVidia already lost their minds. I'll stick to AMD lately.

[@sparty278]

Amd has lost it too IMO

[@williampowers3910]

Any chance you will do a build and install Linux? I'm wondering what suggestions you would have for a distro to use for a bit of gaming, movies, and most importantly watching JayzTwoCents videos. :)

[@hoseinqadam]

I wish if I was a tech interviewer for just one hour and saw to the Intel engineer when they described their chiplet design, "oh so they are glued together" and just move to the next question.

[@matthewbarrios1028]

Intel is 2 generations behind on this type of technology. Im sure they will do a good job and be competitive. But AMD has made some of the most impressive gaming CPUs i have ever seen in my life with their 3D skus. My 5800x3D barely gets taxed in games. I think it is going to last me a really long time. I will probably upgrade to the new platform next year and move my system in to my Wifes case where she will be covered for 3 to 4 years with my 5800x3d and 7900xtx. I am WAY more interested in what Intel does with their next gen GPUs. I want to support them but i need them to make a high end model first.

[@anteep4900]

same, but with a 7800x3d, none of my friends with intel cpus come close to the performance i get in games

[@matthewbarrios1028]

@anteep4900 Yeah exactly! I have been shocked watching my CPU metrics and seeing it not even break a sweat. I bet the 7800x3d is even more impressive. I think these x3d cpus are going to have longer than usual life cycles. Which is great!

[@NinjAsylum]

Has anyone ever stopped to realize that if Intel stopped wasting money on producing multiple variants of the same chip (aka the K, KF and KS versions) They could release JUST the K (which is the only one anyone should ever buy) at a MUCH lower price? You know, exactly like AMD had been doing up until the 5000 series.

[@georgejones5019]

Honestly, they only need 3 SKUs. A normal locked SKU, set it and forget it. An unlocked SKU for overclocking and or those who wish to adjust the performance. And an efficiency focused SKU for SFF or laptops.

[@kaseyboles30]

They would make less money. A bin for each price point makes the most money. At this point the vast majority of their 13ty gen chips could easily be banned at the top bin or two, way more than they do. Because it makes them more money.

[@99Daxc]

Until they switch to chiplet design that won't happen. Their yields that don't pass K-sku validation get downgraded to F skus or non K skus which actually saves them money.

[@AlfaPro1337]

Flawless logic! AMD should do it too! They should just released X3D chip, and X-series chipsets! The rest are useless! Your B-series chipset? Useless! Your non-X3D chip? Useless!

[@innocentbystander3317]

Sigh, another "main-character syndrome" person.. OP doesn't understand why, so he assumes he is superior when he's really too stoobid to know how ignant he is.. 🤣

[@markdavenportjr5129]

That's alright with me. I'm planning on doing 2 4070 builds one for my bedroom/office and one for our living room htpc build. :)

[@outlet6989]

Hi Jay. MSI sent me an email yesterday. It was a sales pitch for their new MBs, which they say are "optimized" for the new 14-gen INTEL CPUs.

[@CarlFritz-rr1cs]

Wow, I’m so shocked to hear that Intel has taken AMD’s chiplet design.

[@davidgreen6490]

They havent. I am studying the Intel design right now, it is completely different to AMDs design. It also has three different typoes of core. Its actually quite an interesting design.

[@CarlFritz-rr1cs]

Separate chips was AMDs original idea, Intel’s is just a variation.

[@davidgreen6490]

@@CarlFritz-rr1cs Thats like saying AMD and Intel both copy their processors from Texas Instruments as they invented the Sil;icon Chip!!!!! Utter nonsense.

[@CarlFritz-rr1cs]

@@davidgreen6490 AMD first one to have different chips on 1 CPU and nobody can take it away.

[@davidgreen6490]

@@CarlFritz-rr1cs Again, AMD did not invent the idea, they were just the first ones to sacrifice performance for cost. Chiplets CPUs were designed because they were 40% cheaper to produce with only 10% loss of performance. Intel have also decided that to go with the single die will bring better performance but it is just not worth the cost anymore.

[@Cornholio_X]

I'll wait for 15th gen to upgrade my pc. Altough i want to upgrade with the 14th gen intel cpu but it's supposed to be Meteor Lake, not Raptor Lake refresh. But as i saw the Intel innovation, it's good to know their 15th gen Arrow Lake coming straight out of the fab, i see this will come with no problems to launch H2 2024. One more year to wait.

[@clintono]

Jay, I believe you misunderstood what the bottom layer is. Imagine a map with all the electrical connections between each "chiplet" or sub-component. That is the bottom layer. Then Intel uses their through chip VIA (or whatever they are calling it) to connect the individual chips onto that map layer. This means that they don't have to have all inter-chip connectors on the chiplet edges. The bottom layer is basically a "motherboard" for all the CPU components that need to connect together.

[@khirasier]

while a stacked design could affect temperature with such a massive improvement in power efficiency it could very well offset that leading to a tdp rather similar to current gen cpus or maybe even better

[@cp6565]

PassMark has benchmark results for a single 14900KF posted already. The single thread performance result is the best on the list and slots in just behind the 13900K on all-around performance. However, the TDPs listed for the 14900KF are the same as the 13th gen. I hope this is just a mistake.

[@BasedNapkinMan]

Thanks for the video Jay!

[@Munch3811]

As someone looking to upgrade from a 4790k and a GTX 950, it makes sense for me to drop big for another 10-year build, but these price-to-performance ratios from Intel and NVIDIA are driving the prices up so far that I'm left with considering 3-year old technology, like 12th gen Intel and the 30-series GPUs, just to not drop what could be used as a down payment for a $60k vehicle.

[@theghostofthomasjenkins9643]

that is exactly what i did around christmas. 12th gen was so much cheaper, so just built around that. even if you take a marginal hit on performance, ti's not going to be enough to see with the human eye.

[@tj_2701]

Jay, 3D V-Cache isn't temperature sensitive it's Voltage sensitive. Your job being what it is means you should really know this stuff.

[@ploed]

Both, because of the extra space it's harder to cool, that's why you get better performance and temperature when removing the unnecessary thicc IHS. They just wanted to keep it compatible with the old coolers.

[@tj_2701]

@@ploed dude we're not talking about the IHS, but yes it is thicker than needs to be for cooling, but that has nothing to do with the topic of the post..

[@halsti99]

how do new releases usually affect older chips pricing? im currently looking to upgrade and been debating a 13600k... do you think that prices will go up, or down after 14th gen comes out, or are they usually staying the same?

[@onomatopoeia162003]

usually down.

[@Guess_Wh0o]

Prices go down, wait for the holidays to get a good offer.

[@2Syndras1Cup]

"50% less power draw on Meteor Lake". I am looking at my 8700k that has been hit by a 15% performance reduction due to spectre and meltdown fixes and its on a motherboard that is on its absolute last stretch like: "Well, just 1 more gen (again) buddy..."

[@mr.rainbowlovescoffee]

Wait I didn't know there was a season just for lunch 0:01

[@TfamSoprano]

In y'all's opinion, without considering price, would you prefer to pick the 13900ks or the 14900k? trying to decide which one for my new Asus eva-02 build

[@KPAki1Ler]

14900K of course, if you can. I don't see why you'd get the KS?

[@TfamSoprano]

@@KPAki1Ler for what reason though?

[@KPAki1Ler]

Well it's the last & top CPU of raptor lake architecture, I'm thinking the 14900k may be slightly cheaper as it's not a pre-binned CPU like KS which they usually charge a premium for. I doubt performance will be that drastically different either.

[@TfamSoprano]

@@KPAki1Ler I know but this doesn’t explain comparing between the two. I know all that already, you just stated the obvious

[@AustnTok]

I have a 7950x but theres a couple issues I have when it comes to recording with OBS within a few games I play. Didn't have that issue when I was on 8th-12th gen intel. I'll be selling my 7950x/MOBO and swapping to a 14900k. Or maybe even wait for the 15900k since it'll be a new socket, unless AMD pulls something crazy out with their flagship. If it can seriously compete, I might just deal with it and stick with AMD

[@davelowinger7056]

I think they'll be able to stack them if they use glass as a substrate in between the Chiclets.

[@MBSteinNL]

Just saw this vid for the first time. That image at 12:09 certainly will haunt them still, considering how insanely Epyc has Xeon beat in performerance per USD/Eur/whichever currency you want to pick in most use cases.

[@galaxyrapid4234]

I'm still running my old 9700k, I'm planning to upgrade my platform sometime early next year because my 3080 is probably a bit much him to handle even when overclocked to 5GHz. I've had my eye on a 7800X3D but now I'm not sure where to go. I'll probably be upgrading before the Meteor lake stuff hits desktop so I have to decide if I want to go 14th gen knowing I'm on a dead socket or if I want to go Ryzen and see how far they take am5.

[@dianaalyssa8726]

Went up from a 9600K to 12700KF (7900XTX) it's a decent uplift. CPU stutters went away when gaming after I upgraded. If you are waiting though Ryzen 8000 could also be worth it, major uplift predicted. 15th or Ryzen 8000 will be better than this refresh but if you get a good deal, it might be worth upgrading. I got my chip on sale for 219 and 7600 were running that also, would factor in all the costs. My B760M was 99 and tax at the time. The pricing is another point to consider a lot when picking which platform.

[@KPAki1Ler]

Depends if you ever upgrade your CPU on the same motherboard. Personally I go for best CPU/mobo/ram I can afford, then ride it out with GPU upgrades until I need to change platforms ~5 years

[@galaxyrapid4234]

@@dianaalyssa8726 yeah my biggest issue right now is the stutters while in game so making that go away is why I want to do the upgrade to begin with. For me if I'm getting a K sku from intel I'll get a Z series chipset because I like have the ability to overclock my stuff, which also means the cheapest board I would be looking at is around 120-140. But also I have a high end board now so I probably wouldn't want to give up those features. I'm defiantly hoping for some news from amd, at least about the non x3d chips, hopefully early next year but if the launch time isn't early enough for me I'll end up going with what ever is current.

[@p0ggles]

I read somewhere you don't have to update the BIOS for the 14th gen.

[@ThatDudeJoe]

would it be worth upgrading to a 13900k or the new 14900k from a 5800x??? i mainly game and stream on the weekends. I have no complaints, i guess just asking if i could get even more out of the box with

[@winblasers2]

Not worth spending the money for such a minor gain if you aren't having any issues right now.

[@ThatDudeJoe]

for sure, thank you dude...@@winblasers2

[@nicholasgrogan856]

I own a 7800x3d and about once a month or so my PC wont boot up but it doesnt bother me too much as i just shut off the power and then reboot and it boots just fine. Its something that i would rather not have happen but its not something that bothers me much.

[@tehevilengineer7939]

well damn, i guess ill just see what prices are like once i go to build my next PC

[@mynameisjr000]

the ad is goofy after watching your video about it lol

[@willyscoiote]

TDP and power consumption is almost identical. It's misleading to say otherwise since cpu turns 100% of it's power into heat. What happens after the cpu reaches it's thermal limit is that it will stop boosting or even start throttling. Intel doesn't count the CPU boost capacity when calculating the TDP

[@RubyRoks]

It's weird that the last time they did a gen refresh, they just put out updated SKUs in the same gen (4770k normal/4790k for Haswell-refresh), but this time it's a new gen. In fairness, Broadwell might as well have not existed because of Haswell-refresh, so 🤷‍♀

[@seanathanq]

I assume it will still pull the same power as the 13900KS, might say 150, but i see them pulling 300+

[@ModrunOfficial]

Not relevant to this video but... Can you revisit coil whine and how both psu and gpu choice combined affects it? I dont have access to enough different hardware to check with. Currently im trying to figure out a formula for buying hardware to have little to no coil whine. - It seems so far that buying a higher tier gpu and run it at 70-80% power limit, slightly undervolt it and potentially even overclock it. (for some reason overclocking while powerlimiting it reduces coil whine but needs more testing and why) - Lower end psu's combined with gpus that normaly had no coil whine will suddenly make them both have coil whine. But what part of the psu makes it coil whine to avoid buying a high end psu with the specific low end coil whine part or why does this happen?

[@notestine0221]

Wish you could come visit my lab in Folsom... we get to play with all the new goodies.

[@xaea-1240]

(Buying question) Hey Jay and crew, I'm currently experiencing some issues with my PC which I can only narrow down to a motherboard issue. Should I buy a used/like new MB for 250-300 for my 9th gen cpu or should I spend more and upgrade to 12/13th-gen system. Also, should I wait for 14th gen to launch? Essentially, if i go the upgrade route when would be a good time to buy. (cpu, MB, Ram, Cooler, maybe psu)

[@rustler08]

Are you trolling? Because there's no way in hell a Z390 should be any more than $60-80 at this point. $250-300 get you a nice modern motherboard, and I've seen some Microcenter combos for near that price. They just had a Z690 motherboard, 16GB of DDR4, and a 12700K for $350. So no, you shouldn't get scammed on a motherboard from 2018.

[@xaea-1240]

@@rustler08 Buying my same MB, ASUS z390-e, on amazon its 298 used like new, and on ebay its 259 new. I found some used ones at 150 however ive had some issues buying used before.

[@skipaiotter]

I'm going to wait for 2nd or 3rd gen for AMD's new reverse pin socket design to mature. 7000 series was pretty much beta testing and I doubt it would've solved itself this gen with issues here and there. My 5900x is doing fine still for what I need and gaming so unless it gets behind a fair bit next gen or two then I'll make the jump. Depending... My only concern is the reduction in pci expansion slots since PCIE5.0 came out which is a big deal considering how wide graphic cards are these days. Just 1-2 more expansion slots x4 at the furthest end would be nice, or flip over the M2 slots to rear of the motherboard but that'll take a redesign of hole at back from pc case manufacturers. Thinking some more stuff needs moving there to make room for the front again that you see.