International Languages

[@hubertk7363]

One thing - you can't say that the fact that German expresses the desire to wander with one word doesn't create any problems. Why? 1. German just works that way (as you know). Other example, "Staubsauger" (AKA dustsucker ;) ) is also one word for two english (vacuum cleaner) and it doesn't raise any problems. 2. Even if your native language doesn't have a word for something that's a word in language you learn, usually it's not a big problem. I'm learning English and German, so I a few times came across that kind of stuff and it never was a problem. It was rather excited to find that some languages make distinctions my native one doesn't (although, if this was happening more often I'd probably be irritated). 3. Even if "Wanderlust" was an important thing for Germans, so that they decided to give it a special place in their language (I really don't know anything about German culture, so maybe it's true), it's still a cultural barrier not linguistic, so I wouldn't say that IALs fail at this. They are international auxillary languages, not international auxillary cultures, so who would require them to solve problems with cultural differences?

[@Dracheneks]

I agree with you with these points to be honest It does just make up for phrases or multiple words, forming one that is compound as opposed to making it harder. Additionally, ideas that can't be expressed in a language are more cultural Thank you for pointing this out! :P

[@tj-co9go]

There's one word in my language that's quite useful: jaksaa. Especially in its negative form, when it means you don't have the physical or mental energy to do something, being too exhausted or you just don't like to do something. Maybe a good translation would be "(not) to be too tired to do something" "En jaksa tehdä läksyjä" -> I don't feel like doing homework / I am too tired to do any homework "Vanhus ei käy kaupassa koska ei jaksa nostaa kauppakasseja" -> The old person doesn't go to the shop because he cannot physically exert himself to lift the food bags anymore. "En jaksa juosta" -> I am too tired to run "En jaksa tätä paskaa enää" -> I am tired of this bullshit "Jaksaa jaksaa" -> Carry on / Keep going I guess it boils down to work morale or something, that the English don't have such a word. You can express it with different words but not the same as in Finnish

[@hubertk7363]

@@tj-co9go interesting

[@lowellcunningham3332]

I like that the auto-subtitles changed "auxlang" into "orc slangs."

[@andrewosano7486]

What about creating a sign language as an international language. That would remove the phonemic limitation. (though grammar would still be an issue)

[@thiendo7280]

thats an awsome idea. search up plains indian sign language, its an old lingua franca used on the plains of North America, strethching from Canada to Mexico

[@mahatmarandy5977]

@@thiendo7280 the one problem there is that there isn’t one sign language ASL is universal in the US and Canada, BSL is universal in the UK, but they’re very different, and it’s difficult to converse between them. This is made worse when, every 20 years or so, someone tries to create a universal English SL, which manages to create something equally incomprehensible and frustrating to all.

[@LowestofheDead]

Why not both the spoken and signed auxlang?

[@BackdraftGaming]

Its crazy to think that some languages don’t have numbers! How does that even work then!?

[@tasse0599]

In the case of Piraha the existing claims about the language are very questionable, because they stem from a single (religious) person, are largely unprecedented among known languages, like the numbers thing or the claim that Piraha speakers forget about a person's existence, once they leave their field of view and can't really be replicated, because the Piraha people have been exposed to Portuguese for a while now and the Brazilian government has restricted contact between the natives and the outside world since

[@StefanRotenberg]

Sound volume is way too low

[@Dracheneks]

Dang, I tried fixing that already. Thank you for letting me know, I'll take that in mind next time!

[@spinozatheobvious626]

Yeah no kidding the ad that ran afterwards knocked me through the room!

[@Dracheneks]

My bad, note taken 😅

[@PauxloE]

I think "make it easy to learn" is much more important than "same number of words from each source language".

[@Dracheneks]

I agree, however a balanced number of words from each would probably make the language easier for each speaker, and likely more memorable :P

[@Matzu-Music]

@@Dracheneks As someone who has been making an International auxlang, my preferred approach to make a language international is 'make it slightly difficult for everyone' or as I call it 'good diplomacy'. This names derived from the fact that good diplomacy, while providing some benefit to both parties, requires some effort from both to uphold their end of the agreement. Requiring at least some amount of effort allows me to have some nuance in my language, which In turn allows me to be more flexible with things like word order, and most importantly, depth. Int. Auxlangs not only have the duty to be speakable by most of the world, they must also be able to describe the world. So in this conflict, a compromise must arise between learnability and usability. Such is this principle's namesake.

[@Dracheneks]

@Matzu-Music Thats a great principal to go by! There's a kind of joke with auxlangs; make it as hard as possible for everyone instead, then noone is at a disadvantage! I love what you're putting down though!

[@vulpes7079]

​@@Matzu-Musichave you had progress in creating such a language?

[@TheMiluProject]

Nice video, It would be cool to some more naturalistic auxlangs or even some like Toki Pona.

[@Dracheneks]

Thank you! Absolutely, I'd love to have done more about Toki Pona but I don't know anything about it and was under a but of time pressure :P

[@jackcross4895]

When you say "we don't have in english" I'm not sure what you mean because wanderlust has been used in english for quite some time.

[@Lumegrin]

i have never heard the word _wanderlust_ in my life

[@Lumegrin]

weird other people are saying its a thing ive never heard of it

[@Dracheneks]

It's very likely because of who it's used by and where you are. Here in the UK I can't say it's common at all, but in other countries it's more common. I can't vouch for any specific one though.

[@mahatmarandy5977]

“Wanderlust” is pretty commonly used in the US. So common that it even popped up on my auto-word-complete as a suggestion while I was typing it. Evidently it’s not in your country? That got me wondering why it’d be common in the US but not in other English-Speaking countries (excepting Canada, which American English basically swallowed whole, but didn’t entirely digest). I’m going to assume it has to do with the very large percentage of the US that has German-speaking ancestry. According to every US a census since 1980, the largest ethnic group in the US is German by a considerable margin. And it was probably nearly as frequently spoken as Spanish is in the US today. In 1900 there were about 15 German-language newspapers in Texas alone. To be clear, these were American newspapers full of American news, intended to be read by Americans who were fluent in German. Because a lot of people were. But as people assimilate more and more their native language tends to fade. Plus World War I made German Americans ashamed, and they basically stopped speaking it in public. It was making a minor comeback when World War 2 happened, and that was that. Done. BUT given the obvious phonetic similarities between some English and German words - water/gasser, garden/garten, seben/seven, etc, probably a lot of German words got passed over in a slightly anglicized fashion prior to the death of American German. (Wanderlust is pronounced with a W sound here, not a V) So that was interesting and gave me something to think about for a few minutes. Thank you!

[@aspenjohnson1891]

I thought wanderlust was a word in English too. I'm Australian, I suppose we did have German migrants were im from though so it tracks

[@mahatmarandy5977]

@@aspenjohnson1891 yes. Plus, once a word hits common American usage, it quickly spreads around the world. So two avenues by which it could have entered the Aussie lexicon

[@korakys]

The unfortunate reality is that not everything you see on KZbin is true. Wanderlust is a bog standard word in English, being only slightly rarer than kindergarten. For reference I'm in New Zealand.

[@mahatmarandy5977]

@@korakys There ya go. It struck me as an odd choice for an ‘exotic’ word since, as I said, it popped up in my computer’s spellcheck. But perhaps the KZbinr who made this simply doesn’t get out much, or maybe he lives in some tiny insular area where it’s fallen out of use.

[@Dracheneks]

To address these points in general: It's common in use yes, however what I meant was that it's not a word that's come from an English meaning, rather German, as a loan word. It might be popular where you all live, however not in the UK where I am from, it's not used much here. I've made similar mistakes in other parts of my tutorial series. I apologise, I should do more research in the future.

[@WarriorWildhead1337]

I had no idea wanderlust was a loan word

[@aaronspeedy7780]

3:40 It should be based on the number of speakers of each language.

[@瑠ちゃん]

you need to turn up the volume in your editing software, I put my laptop at max volume and I can barely hear you - after coming from the other video it is a very jarring volume difference.

[@danielroy8232]

2:35 we literaly have that word in english. just pronounce it with an english accent and it's exactly the same.

[@holdingpattern245]

Two ideas popped in my head: could there be like a ultra-simplified language designed for use by travellers, you could learn it in like a day, and it only can express basic concepts like trying to find lodging or food, or telling people that you were robbed or injured? Also, has anyone ever made an auxlang, and then inserted it into a fictional story as a mysterious ancient language, so that fans of the story will want to learn it?

[@Dracheneks]

That is actually a really good idea, it would help so many! I'm unsure, however most popular Conlangs in media seem to not be very easy to learn. I'd be interested to know also if there are any designed specifically for that purpose.

[@holdingpattern245]

@@Dracheneks that was my thought, like what if Klingon or Dothraki were actually designed to be simple and useful, that seems like it would benefit everyone involved

[@element1192]

somebody should make a tokiponido for this purpose

[@stefanhensel8611]

Sindarin, Quenya, Klingon are three that come to mind.

[@holdingpattern245]

@@stefanhensel8611I don't think those are auxlangs

[@korakys]

A good candidate for an international language would have very high commonality with English. That is just make a better English, that's what will appeal to people who have already invested in English.

[@pugglesworth]

technically, but not really. english is a very commonly spoken language, so it's definitely an important consideration, but that doesn't mean it's particularly easy to learn for nonative speakers (i usually hear the opposite sentiment), just that it's internationally relevant (because colonialism). "better english" in the sense of utilising english's strengths is a good start, but basing a (presumably global) ial on just one natural language isn't exactly unbiased and usually won't be easy to pick up for most learners. also, if "better english" is too similar to "natural english", natural english speakers probably wouldn't learn it either.

[@bernardkung7306]

Basic English has been tried, and despite a significant amount of high-level support, failed. In the end, the people who were supposed to learn it, recognized the awkward fact that it was also "Second Class" English. (Additionally, some also felt it was an even greater threat to the survival of their own native language than actual English.)

[@danielroy8232]

It seems like English is the langua franca of today. wonder if latin could work.

Me shwo un lingwa, kel es Ideal-ney internasion-ney lingwa e sey es Lingwa de Planeta.

[@salumtheconlang2953]

ooo is this week IAL week?

[@Dracheneks]

Might as well be ;)

[@wellinghaube5451]

Shrimply Divine.

[@stefanhensel8611]

I don't think an international Lingua Franca kills minority languages. National languages do. Breton isn't threatened by English but by French.

[@Dracheneks]

Yes you have a good point, just like Welsh or Cornish, they're often overtaken or learned over by the languages of the larger countries they border.

[@DylanMatthewTurner]

The language that works best as an auxlang is Toki Pona imo, which is funny because it wasn't created to be an auxlang

[@Dracheneks]

I definitely think it's one of the best candidates, no doubt about that! I can't comment much on it, as I don' t know Toki Pona, but from what I do know I'd agree!

[@FractalComputer]

Toki Pona is shite

[@DylanMatthewTurner]

@@FractalComputer Okay

[@hubertk7363]

Don't confuse fluent and native speakers

[@DylanMatthewTurner]

@@hubertk7363 I'm sorry. I don't understand. What does that have to do with anything?

[@aminakhan703]

Speak up dude! I can't hear the video at max volume!

[@phoenixehc]

1:15 I think toki pona also has native speakers

[@FractalComputer]

No

[@Dracheneks]

I looked it up and have seen anecdotes about people having native speaking children, but from what I see there is no data supporting there being native speakers. However, it would be really cool if there were!

[@hubertk7363]

You mean native not fluent speakers, don't you?

[@fungalhelix7779]

As far as I know there are 2 native speakers of Toki Pona I believe Ido has a couple dozen native speakers as well

[@bernardkung7306]

You're probably thinking of Esperanto (which has at least a couple thousand native speakers).

[@markusklyver6277]

You assumed "international" means "global".

[@kornsuwin]

it might as well be

[@markusklyver6277]

@@kornsuwin Why?

[@that_orange_hat]

this video is silly

[@NeroDefogger]

emm... you em... that's also a pro... duh... that's why it only has pros... what a dumb thing to say...

[@KotrokoranaMavokely]

Your video makes all the false and wrong assumptions, not every international auxiliary language is what you speak, many conlangs help people communicate without problems and cultural barriers such as Occidental, Romanid, Sabir, LFN, Interlingua, Lojiban. It depends a lot on the conlangs model being addressed. Your video is more accurate for imperialist conlangs like Esperanto or stupid colangs like manioloc to itkhuil than an anti-language to be natlang or conlang. You don't understand anything about the science of Communication and Information to judge conlangs. And your unfair opinion of a layman who attacks bad conlangs but is unfair to all good conlangs, if you are not a linguist keep your opinion to yourself and stop saying nonsense on the web, use research more and the brain is free it doesn't hurt, if care, peace and health.

[@chickenstrangler3826]

Are you good? You got pretty ass mad. Also, Ithkuil was never meant to actually be spoken. Interlingua, occidental, etc would also be "Imperialistic" as well because they would eat away all dialects of Spanish and Portuguese.