Interpreting Beethoven: Pathetique Sonata,1st mov. (part 2) Allegro (tutorial)

Clive Swansbourne tackles issues both technical and interpretive in this stormy movement.

[@david8252]

i did all the wrong techniques 10 years ago, on a bad piano, and messed up my hands. Recently tried again, and I finally started working hard to fix some of those techniques. I'm finally grasping how to properly play it, without sacrificing my hands. Thanks for this video, I'm studying it. Previously this stifled my piano learning and I became discouraged from continuing to learn sight reading. I've been a pianist since I was 10, but I've played contemporary music, which generally is not as difficult. But I just can't get rid of the desire to grow.

[@JordiMS78]

Very good tutorial! Thank you for detailing so much every phrase. I'm taking back this piece after 25 years and your comments inspired me much.

[@daphnema9154]

Hi Clive, have not seen your new videos for long. You are the best tutor for me on KZbin. Very detailed and full of knowledge. I have watched your videos repeatedly. They are my mental food in music. I just started Beethoven Tempest 3rd movement. Hope can see your videos🙏🙏🙏

[@HankValencia]

I really like how you interpret a piece as you're just telling a story to make it more expressive and emotional. This isn't just technicality, it's about expression. Truly well done, Clive! It's my piece by the way on my level 6 piano major in college.

[@lucapianoguy]

Hello Clive, i am a 13 year old classical pianist i am learning this piece currently; because of quarantine i don't have a teacher at the moment, and this video has helped so much with the course of learning this piece, thank you

[@pianoinsights6092]

Best of luck with it, and let me know if you post your performance.

[@christopherzimmer]

This truly phenomenal, Clive- a real gift to students of this work. Your insights regarding interpretation are the perfect compliment to the videos of others who focus on technical mastery- both are needed and necessary, so it’s nice to have this balanced teaching perspective!

[@NahedElrayes]

That Eb minor conversation 😂😂

[@pianoinsights6092]

Glad you liked that, Nahed.

[@evanielsen9625]

This is so beautiful. You’re communicating elements of this movement I believe I’ve been doing intuitively, but without realizing what I was actually doing. Your note towards the end of the movement about the connection to the third movement was so poignant. I mean, I play the full sonata but had never connected those two moments. So powerful. Thank you!

[@pianoinsights6092]

Thanks Eva, this means a lot.

[@phongdanhat1059]

This is truly a masterclass. Thank you so much.

[@MennellMusic]

This is such a great tutorial, I keep coming back to it as I progress through the piece. There is some ambiguity in the score at times, particularly in terms of dynamics, which you clarify / interpret very well.

[@mikaelr.clausen6239]

Hi,, very helpfull... i like your combination of musical interpration and technical suggestions. Thank you :-)

[@warrenwinslow4266]

Thank you for this wonderful articulation tutorial and your insight into the music. I have been working on this piece for quite a while along with others. I usually play the first 2 movements. Thirk I don't like as much.

[@paulinemarshall6845]

Wonderful playing and so very helpful. A great video, thanks Clive.

[@pianoinsights6092]

Thanks, Pauline.

[@kenmidge]

All your videos are brilliant Clive. I look forward to seeing more from you.

[@pianoinsights6092]

Many thanks, Ken. I appreciate your comments.

[@bowl_ofcrotchets422]

Thank you so much for doing this! It really helps me to prepare for my exam. It would be so lucky to be your students because the way you teach is so fascinating!

[@ELo-ef7vd]

Thank you so much for making this informative video! This was the last piece I played in high school before quitting piano and leaving for college. Now, 22 years later I"m trying to get my skills back. The muscle memory is still there, but the muscles aren't. I look forward to seeing more of your videos. Thank you.

[@pianoinsights6092]

I wish you the best! You should be able to get your form back with care and patience.

[@evanielsen9625]

That is EXACTLY the position I’m in. I played this 20 years ago (probably not very well), and now I’m re-learning it. This is the best tutorial I’ve come across, and I’ve watched several. The technical elements are very informative and still very rich in musicality.

[@danxia3014]

Absolutely brilliant content on your channel. I'm currently preparing for a diploma exam and your insights on the Pathetique Sonata have been priceless. Thanks for doing what you do!

[@pianoinsights6092]

Thanks Dan. And good luck with the diploma.

[@luigialbanese6641]

Brilliant explanation of left hand ! Amazing

[@pianoinsights6092]

Thanks! Much appreciated.

[@allayarallayar2143]

Thank you very much, it helps me so much.

[@militaryandemergencyservic3286]

17:32 - I like the analogy! I think similarly about Schubert's d 935 number 1 in that wonderful dialogue passage

[@matthewvarney6214]

Sounds great when you're playing the piece, would be good to hear a full version of this mvt.

[@pianoinsights6092]

Thanks, Matthew. My performance of the met. is here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/haekcneeg8ScjLM

[@CenaniHarun]

Great tutorial ! Thank you so much

[@susanchemm9391]

It as very nice and helpful for students ;)) I like your comments and demonstrations! Thank you very much!

[@s2jaeger]

Hallo Clive, I really feel commited to thank you for this enlightening and inspiriring discussion. I didn't realize all the connections you show between the different sections of the piece. And I find your "tips" very useful. Best greetings from Italy

[@pianoinsights6092]

Thanks for the feedback and greetings back.

[@michaelcondron3770]

Clive, this is brilliant! I have heard this piece many many times, and your insights are somehow intuitive to me in how I can appreciate different realizations of this piece, but hearing you explain and demonstrate it in detail gives words and clear metaphors to it. I look forward to hearing and watching you talk about the Appassionata, and of course Tempest 3rd movement, if you have those pieces on your agenda.

[@pianoinsights6092]

Thanks Michael, I much appreciate it. And yes, the pieces you mentioned will be coming up before too long.

[@yasharfard4208]

Great points! Amazing interpretation! Absolutely love it... particularly where you tell a story of a conversation between an imaginary husband and his wife

[@pianoinsights6092]

Thanks Yashar, I'm glad you liked it.

[@brantleygrey696]

you probably dont give a damn but does someone know of a method to get back into an instagram account?? I was stupid lost the password. I appreciate any assistance you can give me!

[@bronsonfrancis2472]

@Brantley Grey instablaster =)

[@brantleygrey696]

@Bronson Francis Thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and I'm trying it out atm. Takes a while so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

[@brantleygrey696]

@Bronson Francis It worked and I now got access to my account again. I'm so happy:D Thanks so much, you really help me out!

[@ssenaratne]

This is fantastic. I started practicing and I’m just getting into the focusing on interpretation after getting familiar with the notes. Opportune time to study before I do the wrong thing.. Greatly appreciate very useful

[@pianoinsights6092]

Thanks, Sudarshan.

[@kevinwu665]

Fantastic tutorial! Thank you!

[@pianoinsights6092]

Thanks, Kevin.

[@te22arg28]

Piano Insights Hi Clive, first off, great tutorial (it’s really helpful). Secondly, I wanted to ask how the trills should be played within the development section. I realise this is a somewhat controversial topic, but I’m not sure whether I should go with the suggestion of the editor of my score (I am using Barry Cooper’s ARBSM Edition) or play the chord of C and Eb leading into the trill rather than the chord of C and F where the trill would begin on the upper note. Would love to hear your thoughts on this, thanks!

[@daphnema9154]

I love your tutorial so much. It is very helpful 👍. Can you please do a lesson on tempest 3rd movement?

[@pianoinsights6092]

Thanks Daphne, and yes, Tempest on the way.

[@daphnema9154]

@@pianoinsights6092 thank you so much Clive.

[@daphnema9154]

@@pianoinsights6092 your tutorial lesson is so important to me. I watched many times for every movement of Beethoven Pathetique sonata. You are so detailed and there are many techniques for me to follow. You are a wonderful teacher🥰

[@bbwnpat]

This is such a mind blowing piece of which im enjoying as a break from practicing exam pieces. I love your interpretation and guidance and I will certainly be taking your advice as i soldier on. Thanks, very helpful.

[@charlesmacready4225]

Some very helpful advice re. this piece, Clive. The first recordings I had of this piece were Rubinstein & Horowitz, and both of them played the mordents before the beat (& my piano teacher said that technically that was correct). When I played it I played them on the beat (much easier), but it seems odd that two of the best pianists of the 20th century got it wrong. Is there a 'right' & 'wrong' or is it just a matter of choice?

[@pianoinsights6092]

Thanks Charles. Likewise I grew to love this piece listening to Wilhelm Kempff, who also plays the ornaments before the beat. It seems, however, that was not how the 19th century commentators and theorists such as Turk instructed. Sandra Rosenblum's 'Performance Practice in Classic Piano Music' is a valuable reference for this and many other matters. In general these old commentators show a range of possibilities for how to play the same ornament eg. a turn or an appoggiatura, depending on their context within a phrase, whether a phrase is rising or falling etc., but in the case of this 'short trill' and its close relative the mordent (which contains the melody note and the note below it), none of the recommendations occurs before the beat. And for good reason as I see (hear) it: playing them before the beat has a limping effect and clogs up the flow of the music. The great pianists of old either didn't have access to these sources of information, or didn't care to. The 'authentic' movement only really got going in the 70's when performers seriously started to take them on board. I have to add that I have difficulty with Chopin's ornaments (also, following his dynamic and pedal markings is often impossible for me). We are told by various scholars to play all of them on the beat, per Chopin's wishes. So often though, they sound better before the beat! I go with what sounds better - every rule has its exceptions, after all.

[@卡卡-i2f]

讲的非常好 👍

[@steste2074]

Great tips Clive, I've been working hard on this piece for about a year now ... 😌 But it seems like it's still a long way to a good execution. the fact is that you make everything seem so simple (it is true that you are a professional and talented pianist, and I am a simple amateur, not too skilled 😕), but sometimes I feel a little frustrated ... anyway, congratulations again and I hope to see more and more videos

[@pianoinsights6092]

Thanks Ste Ste. I wish you well with your progress. This is not an easy piece, and I understand how frustrating it can be when progress is not as you might wish. I wonder... you say you have been working on it for a year now. Have you taken any breaks from it during that year? If not, I recommend highly doing so. In my experience and that of the many students I have recommended it to, it has always reaped great benefits. You won't 'forget' the piece if you let it go for a while, and when you come back to it, say, after two or three months, and start practicing it again as if it were a new piece, I think you will find that your brain is refreshed and and you will be able to rise to a new and surprising level quite quickly. Do the piece and your brain a favor, and dare to let it go and start work on a new piece, or on resurrecting old ones.

[@steste2074]

Hi Clive, first of all, thank you for taking time to answer me and to give me such good advices. Regarding the Pathetique, in fact I was thinking to take a break from this piece for a while, but I was afraid that after such hard work, a break would make me lose what I learned, but your words give me hope that, conversely, the piece would benefit from this kind of action...In fact I read often that after a long period, "let go" a piece (and revert back to it in a couple of months for example) it's not a defeat but something that could greatly help. I will try this definetely, and let you know the results :-) In the meantime, I hope to get keep in touch with you and your invaluables advices and I thank you again for your efforts See you, Stefano

[@pianoinsights6092]

Not a defeat at all Stefano! But a very smart thing to do. Your brain has retained all your work, which will gel nicely so that when you come back to the piece, you'll wonder why you had such trouble with certain passages which have become magically easier.

[@TheLibrarianUU]

Eek!

[@matthewvarney6214]

What does the cut time signify in this movement?

[@pianoinsights6092]

Counting 2 in a bar instead of 4. Cut time is used usually for quicker-tempo pieces.

[@matthewvarney6214]

@@pianoinsights6092 So the quavers are counted as semi quavers? That's what I thought, and is it the same for the third mvt?

[@matthewvarney6214]

@@pianoinsights6092 I read in the notes that the cut time means doesn't have the same meaning or 'scope' in the third movement. I don't really understand because for me the third movement in 4/4 allegro seems to work

[@lonewolf604]

Ah yes...the self induced carpal tunnel piece, I played it in recital and it sucked :(