Interview - Bitty Miscavige - Her First Time Speaking Out

[@Robutube1]

I watch pretty much all of your content, so how I missed this until now is a mystery. Bitty proved to be a lively and entertaining interviewee. Thank you all, and more please!

[@AK.kje11]

Very happy to hear Bitty’s story. I’ve seen her son Sterling on other channels. He’s a very handsome young man and very well spoken. Also enjoy listening to Jenna. The pieces are coming together. Thank you.

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Thanks so much

[@carolinelvsewe]

I’ve heard Bitty’s name for years, so great to hear from her and her perspective on human rights.

[@AK.kje11]

So many wonderful people on SPtv fighting the good fight. It is going to make a difference.

[@TinaMcBride63]

Ive heard the name Bitty Miscavige over the years its good to put a face to the name ❤️

[@victoriamorris3773]

Being 68yrs old, all l can say is, hard work and a hard life sure kept all you S.P ladies looking years younger than your ages.❤ FROM Australia. ❤

[@stephaniekeeping]

This was absolutely rivoting. I love hearing all the ‘new’ voices. The power of SPTV is undeniable.

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks very much.

[@valhallamcgaughey3720]

Bitty is so much fun to listen to!

[@markpb4767]

The massive number of people who left the cult can't be ignored. It's so great to see how these people who are visible have made lives. I'm sure there are many silently suffering x cult members. Plus the 1000s still afraid to leave be shunned by family and friends. This cult must be taken down.

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Great observations.

[@Amandadear0812]

Eastern shore of Maryland. So glad bitty got out. I didn’t know if she had. Much love

[@freddavis604]

This was so good…. Very interesting lady….. can’t wait for part 2….👍👍🌹

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@dominikaMickiewicz]

WOW, what a great interview! Never enough of your stories, thank you so much for bringing up Mrs Miscavige. Love you all ! ❤

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Our pleasure!

[@mreppen1]

Great to see you Bitty. My wife Betsy and I watched the whole thing, you look and sound great!

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Awesome! Thank you! We appreciate you Mike and Betsy!

[@SitDownAndChill]

I am so glad that Bitty came onto your show, I love how you both interact with your guests and give them the chance to tell their story

[@fairyspunfibers9098]

REPLAY CREW, here. 😊 I can't believe you guys scored such a HUGE interview catch with Bitty! I was thinking just the other day, when watching Sterling's interview, that we would *never* get to meet her and hear her speak! Yet, here she is! Hi, Bitty! So great to meet you!

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Thanks very much. It's the power of Janis's connections and our friendships over the years! We were very happy to have her and will have her again very soon for more! Thanks for watching.

[@RealSweetnessandLight]

Welcome Bitty! 🥰

[@eloise22422]

I watching replay but love you two! I’m from Sacramento California. I am subscribed to all the SPTV podcasts. I’m at the point now that I rarely watch tv, just KZbin SPTV. All of you are fighting the good fight to take this cult down. I’m right behind all of you great great SPs. I’ve made myself an honorary SP!

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Awesome! Thank you! Welcome aboard! LOL We appreciate you watching.

[@fairyspunfibers9098]

I'm in the same boat! Who needs TV when we have SPTV?!? That is ALL I watch...and still can't catch up! LOL. A happy circumstance for the sake of exposing this monstrous CULT!

[@victoriamorris3773]

Me too, lol. From Australia 😊

[@fishdaddy35]

So great to see Bitty!

[@anneburrough9527]

Lovely to hear from Bitty. ❤

[@russl9029]

Thank you all so much for what you do! Y'all are awesome!

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Our pleasure! Thank you!

[@BeccasBoxerDogs]

Thank you so much for sharing your story, Bitty ❤ it’s been an inspiration watching you all.

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Thank you so much!

[@jensenpete]

This was a great interview. What a nice person. It’s amazing how much Scientology morphed into what it is today when the old timers were obviously pushing for better conditions and quality of life.

[@user-us8zf3ew5i]

How wonderful to see Bitty!

[@rosebudame]

Replay crew…….Bitty I love women with white hair! You look fabulous & welcome here!

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Yes! Thank you!

[@victoriamorris3773]

Watching on replay, just love you two. From Australia. 😊😊❤❤

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@marianne7598]

Fabulous interview! I look forward to hearing more of her story.

[@daniellechamberlin4873]

Great listening to you. Such interesting stories. Thank you 🤗

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Thanks for listening

[@dgonzo438]

Great show, thanks for sharing!

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@DGDancemonkey]

Wow I am excited for this replay!

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Hope you enjoy it!

[@LisaGayleDE]

Thanks Bitty, Janis and Mark that was so interesting.

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@Ania-cd2sh]

Love this interview so much! So glad she got to courage to speak out! Love ya Bitty ❤

[@chuckbeattyo]

Incredibly historic! Thankyou so much Bitty!! I'm blown away!! My gosh, my gosh! People unless they know the whole saga, don't know how truly special this is. Bitty knows so much of the "water under the bridge" history of the movement, she importantly spans the pre and then Miscavige era, and she intimately knows all about the swing of Miscavige from the IRS "win" to then Miscavige's years in Clearwater, dominating and causing disaster there and Miscavige's (meaning Dave Miscavige, not Ronnie, who I always felt Ronnie was so many more times the the nicer stabler of the Miscavige brothers). Bitty thankyou so much again. Chuck Beatty, ex Sea Org (Team Xenu) 1975 to 2003 PS: The long list of top women in the Sea Org history is a fact, makes me wonder if digging into Saint Hill era history (the late 1950s thru then 1967 beginning of Sea Org) one wonders how many women were top decision makers and "stable positions" in Saint Hill era "management" and running of things? (Bitty again, imagine her "leader" of the movement vs. David, I can imagine that in a heartbeat. Bitty was another strong woman who clearly would have been better for the history of the movement had she, or Debbie Cook, or Janis, or Hanna, or Kima, or even Diana sheesh, been the movement "boss" things would have clearly been less horrible for all concerned. Not to mention the Reisdorf sisters, and Janis' sister, just too many women, Toby Young, Irene Dunlevy, ......Ingeborg Steinberg, Holly Carlson of course who reminds me so much of Bitty, the two, Bitty and Holly my gosh I'd love to hear them interview each other. THIS SHOW, PEELING THE ONION IS A DREAM COME TRUE FOR HISTORY BUFFS OF SEA ORG, endless thanks Mark and Janis!!!)

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Glad you enjoyed it Chuck.

[@HiHoKir]

Chuck Beatty will you be doing an interview with Janis and Mark one day? @markfisher

[@daniellechamberlin4873]

Well said Chuck. Totally agree. 🤗

[@sandrasan1313]

Great episode. It was so nice to "meet" Bitty!

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@daveluck5717]

'Rock concert , where they threw the rocks at us '... 😁 .... Love it !..

[@daniellechamberlin4873]

I heard an interesting story today about a non Scientologist a number of years ago who took out Jon Atack and Russell Millers books from the local East Grinstead library. Next thing this never-in finds is a group of Scners protesting with banners outside his house!!

[@barbsilvey3276]

On the replay…cannot wait for this!!!!!

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

We hope you enjoy it!

[@barbsilvey3276]

@@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady so great!!!

[@barbsilvey3276]

@@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady - so fabulous!!!

[@Multichick]

catching up on replay crew! fascinating interview with Bitty! 💜 so glad you are out!

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Thanks for watching the replay. We appreciate you.

[@proxyloxy7011]

Replay crew from Minnesota

[@mikefixac]

I wonder (never in)--For the old timers, do they sometimes look on Scientology and miss the old times or look upon Scientology with fondness? Certainly, there's a camaraderie working and being with each other for so long. And a huge respect for other fellow members.

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

I miss the people that I was close to and worked with and wish that they were out as well. Thanks for the comment and for watching.

[@MonicaFlorida]

Great look today, Janis!

[@Keyboard_warrior_17]

Great video! Love you guys and the content

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Thanks so much!!

[@helengore6257]

Hi watching from the UK

[@VeBombs]

So much going on, I've had this on the backburner

[@NurseLoriRN11]

Love the shirt Mark.

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Thanks very much! One of my collection.

[@jillg9108]

It is amazing that this is the first time Bitty has ever discussed some of these things.

[@betsybabf748]

The poor children who were innocent and brought up in this deserved to be raised in a stable family home by their parents. Parents are ones completely responsible for their own children's lives and upbringing.

[@vjburke70]

I wonder how many future couples will come together because of SPTV ❤

[@andreaseiberl4279]

Greetings from Vienna / Austria/ Europe👏🥰

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Thanks for coming

[@Momoften2011]

Wow. I have listened to Jenna Miscavige and her story, and was really wondering about her parents... From eastern Ontario, Canada ...Petawawa

[@MinionTheFirst2024]

SP TV LOVE IT!!!!

[@melonyjohnson3470]

Got my “Right Janis” mug just in time to watch the latest episode.

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Great Melony! How do you like it? I got mine too and I think it looks nice. Mark

[@melonyjohnson3470]

@@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady I love it!! Very good quality.

[@hellxkitxy.]

Hello mate from Australia love the story

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Hello there!

[@VeBombs]

Clearwater, LI, NY in da re-watch house

[@bes03c]

I heard about her in Jenna's book and with Sterling's interviews. I wondered if she was going to speak out.

[@bigdonnie57]

Telling assist? Now, that makes so much sense. The why of social work and the placebo of Medicine.

[@moniquedelaney7958]

Watching from Australia

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

G'day! Thanks for your support!

[@moniquedelaney7958]

😘

[@Madmarsha]

Jenna in that pic at 12:58 doesn't look any older today!!! Is it Sterling that also says "You know what I mean?" a lot, too?

[@daniellechamberlin4873]

Remind me of my short Roanne story when I was at FLB.

[@wldncrzy1971]

We gotta get Janis a mic! And I had no clue Sterling and Jenna were siblings! 🤦🏼‍♀️ That’s incredible

[@Holly-days]

At 18:12 I think Bitty’s thinking of the mission of Tony and Kima Dunleavy. That would have been in the year 1971-1972. They came to pave the way for the transition from USLO to FOLO WUS. Bill Foster had been CO USLO (possibly temp for Alex Sibersky or after him) and Dunleavy installed Wally Burgess as CO of the new FOLO.

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Thanks Holly! Great to see you here and thanks for watching our videos! We have a new live interview with Bitty again tomorrow (Saturday) and I will let her know about Tony and Kima on the mission. Hello to Carl!

[@Carolinec222]

Where is David Miscavige’s wife???

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Unknown for sure, but believed to be at the location in the Mountains for Southern California where L. Ron Hubbard Archives are. She hasn't been seen in public since at least 2008.

[@daniellechamberlin4873]

I wish I could remember Bitty as we were on the ship at the same time!

[@Livingangelerin]

Bitty would have been on the port side in the tween decks most the time you were there. Most people walked on the starboard side as the port side was management. They also worked on a different schedule 12-03 with midratz for dinner.

[@daniellechamberlin4873]

@@Livingangelerin ahhh thanks yes that’s so true I spent a lot more time starboard near HCO and Alan Vos’s area. Although from what Bitty says we may well have slept in the same dorm, but it was so dark down there, we probably would bump into each other and not see each other 🤣

[@daniellechamberlin4873]

@@megmeyer7563 hi Meg, from my point of view I am so glad and relieved to be out! Best move I ever made. It could be that you’re just picking up the friendly vibe maybe? We all shared such a strong bond in that Scientology is all we ever knew, so when we get back together, even all these years later, the friendship bond is still tight. For me it has been fun to reminisce with others who knew what it was like. Xx

[@Qrtuop]

It's hard not to judge after knowing Jenna's story. Her parents were completely neglectful of her.

[@teddiev2720]

I agree. When I read Jenna’s book it was so heartbreaking. I could never imagine letting my daughter be away from me or being away from my own mother. I couldn’t imagine either my parents letting us be brought up being basically abused. It was mind boggling to me.

[@nickinoonah]

Great interview. I now know her name is Bitty not Biddy lol as I thought (probably the US accents). It is worth remembering that Bitty's recollections of the Apollo in comparison to Danielles are going to be very different, obviously as everyone has their own unique experience anyway but there is a big difference in being 11/12 on the ship to a 15 year old (still too young obviously).

[@Catherine_AM]

I felt compelled to watch again. Ah...I miss Amy. 🥰 Are Bitty and Ronnie still a couple? 🙂 I do hope Foster can make it out...for his children to continue to love him should be power enough. One can hope. 🤞

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Thanks very much. No Bitty and Ronnie are not together any more.

[@beckieknight6184]

South Africa

[@HitmanAddict317]

Any old timers remember a Jane True (Western USA Continental Liason Office) in LA by chance?

[@susanholmes1244]

I live in Clearwater AZ 😂

[@simplysusan.5625]

It was a little disconcerting to hear your representation of the nursery and the Ranch so positively. Especially after hearing the Ranch stories from the kids.

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Thanks very much. The Ranch wasn't the greatest, but it was far better than the conditions in Los Angelas. Bitty was the driving force for trying to improve the conditions for the parents and the kids. The fact is Scientology did not value the children. Hubbard and Miscavige thought they were a distraction. But Bitty did all she could to try to improve the situation. The Ranch was only a 20 minute drive from the main base. They built a school there and playgrounds. It wasn't ideal, but then the entire Scientology and Sea Organization treatment of kids was horrible. Hope that clarifies for you.

[@tamara6212]

​@@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGradyI remember reading Jena Miscavage- Hills book. The way she described the "ranch" and the treatment of the children there was terrible. The time for children and parents was minimal. Sad, co$ act as if they are "ethical " when, in fact, they're far from it. Thanks for the interviews and guests. Very interesting.

[@CeceKruchkoSmith]

59:24 The Becky Parker pushing D. Wilhare, was she then at AOLA married to Woody Parker? They left and moved to San Francisco area and I’ve lost touch but Becky was a dear junior/friend. I’d love to know how she and Woody are doing. Edit: Yes it is my Becky. In all the years I worked with her at AOLA and the letters after she left, she never told me she and Woody were at Int. Now I know AOLA was majorly staffed by X Int staff. Robin Hubbard, Kenny Lipton were just on loan but many stayed and I worked with for 20 years and they never said a word 😢

[@mathildefisher8244]

Thank you so much for revealing the truth about this cult sciencetology. I do have a question. Did you know a woman named Helen O'Hare ? She is from Britain and joined the organization in the 90's. Thanks again for what you do.

[@Nitapeep]

OK. I see my other username account doesnt show here. I have to change my notifications settings to Nitapeep. I'm lagging behind. Great interview with Erin and Amy yesterday! Was late catching that one also.

[@kirstenknox2753]

Like Las Vegas, New Mexico

[@bigdonnie57]

Yvonne Gents, our lovely, sensitive commander. Caption: I think of the Celebrity Center in Hollywood. I know you're Heber there.

[@Whol3NothaL3v3l]

Bitty has great hair!

[@CrankyScientist]

Sterling look so much like her.

[@chuckbeattyo]

QUESTION: For all three, do you know of how Max Hauri's "Ron's Orgs" operate, for all things? (this is related to my question below?)

[@janisgrady]

Not sure what you are asking. I have stayed with Max in Switzerland and he has a regular set up like any org or mission.

[@chuckbeattyo]

@@janisgrady My other question was do you think Max's setup is adequate, meaning no need to do continental and middle and upper management over a network of Max sized "Missions" of SCientology? That was essentially the late Alan Walter's criticism, and countless Mission/Franchise era people, your father included I surmise, would think really, Missions and groups, and self run, are about as big as Scientology is needed. I thought the best time in Scientology history was when the Class 6s from Saint Hill set up their missions, ran them, and then the Class 8 era that followed, who Class 8s set up their missions. Really, little management, do you think that is adequate, which today is this Max Hauri level? Max seems not to require an OSA, not to require anything like continental management or middle or upper management to continue interest and participation over there? Do you think Max's setup is a kind of model or "pilot" organizationally is what I'm asking.

[@janisgrady]

@@chuckbeattyoMax has a good set up which works for him. Scientology is so top heavy its not funny. they kept ripping off the orgs and missions to man up management which was a ot of paper shuffling.

[@philomenamagill700]

❤

[@jskeyboardwarrior-pe9kn]

Im a 3rd gen nurse. You can get hurt digesting magnesium. Your stomach doesnt know when to say enough. Your better to soak in magnesium flake bath. Your body will only absorb what you need...

[@daniellechamberlin4873]

Hey Bitty I had identical twin girls. ❤️❤️

[@SuperGobaby]

David will be pissed. That’s the short and the shorter of it.

[@rasputanrasputan1380]

Getting dressed up in those goofy uniforms looks very humorous….

[@0biwan77]

Janis and Mark, I can’t figure out who runs the ships? Is the Sea Org able to function like a real crew for such a good sized ship in high seas. I mean, were there machinists, navigators and all the positions like a real marine crew?

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

The crew were all eventually Sea Org members who got trained on the job. Initially, they did hire outside Seamen and Engineers and Captains while they learned.

[@0biwan77]

@@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady thanks so much. In what must be hundreds of hours watching SPTV, that was never clear to me.

[@marcvandervelsen]

Kaola Calm reminds me of CalMag, a Scientology drink. It does do wonders. And you can mix it for free!

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Thanks. It is not exactly the same. It doesn't have that vinegar taste that Cal Mag had. But it does help with stress and sleeping. Thanks for watching.

[@marcvandervelsen]

​@@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady Probably because your version does not contain calcium, which is the only reason for vinegar to be added to the CalMag drink (as it needs an acid environment to work). In any case, CalMag is a much cheaper and Scientology opened up the recipe to anyone for free. BTW, you could add some orange juice to CalMag to camouflage the vinegar taste.

[@JanisGillhamGrady]

@@marcvandervelsen The history on calmag is: LRH came up with the formula using the vinegar as the acid needed for it to work. My father, Peter Gillham, researched it further with the intent to make it instant. He came up with using citric acid instead of vinegar which also improved the taste. Finding many people had enough calcium and taking calmag did not help them if they had a magnesium deficiency, so he came up with Natural Calm which is magnesium and citric acid to breakdown calcium and help it simulate into the body. Natural Calm is now owned by Clorox. Prior to my father's death, my husband and I worked with my father to improve the formula and we came up with Koala Calm and Magnesium Supreme which has malic acid instead of citric acid which is easier on the stomach and less likely to cause one to get the runs.

[@bigdonnie57]

Lovely set of twins-Identical? My twin and I were born with Tto T to T to s. Twin-to-twin transfusion syndrome. We were part of 10 children. We both survived, Unlike Elvis and his twin. What year are they born in?

[@lorenat05]

😊

[@Themarynewman]

Is that Jenna's mom? (just saw Jenna's interview with Aaron, Growing up in Scientology)

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Thanks for watching. Yes that is Jenna's Mother.

[@jamesmclennan666]

Australia

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

G'day!!

[@mikewhetmore6141]

We have Clearwater in British Columbia, Canada. An original. I love this place. It has a huge protected place of natural wonder... Unlike that over populated place in Florida claiming the same name over run with Sea Org members. Such a shame defaming an otherwise great name of a good place. No offence to those who live there. Many Canadians do. A-Aron, get out and move to Montana (as you stated) - or to BC, Canada. We shall welcome you my bro.

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Thanks for the info on Clearwater in Canada. Sounds like a beautiful place.

[@CrankyScientist]

When you go to Mt. Vernon, they talk about how the men enslaved at the house would take their only day off and walk 6 miles each way to visit their wives and children who were on outlying farms. Sounds the same, except the enslaved men had the entire day off, not 3 hours.

[@mattkaustickomments]

Bitty would have been better off going to Reform School in Joliet.

[@macc240038]

Yet the IRS continues to consider it a religion and grants it immunity from taxation ? How dumb were the people who determined it to be a religion ????

[@brigidine37]

Interesting, as ever. The Catholic Church though, is not a cult. People are free to leave as they wish. They are not separated from their families, they are not sent to "the hole", if they displease the Pope and Confession is about forgiveness, NOT about punishment.

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

So true! Thanks for sharing this viewpoint.

[@mikefixac]

I understand your reasoning for a cult, my definition is different and more encompasing. Anyone who spends their life consumed in their church's doctrine/religious beliefs, and if untrue (which all religions are) is a cult. Of course, there's always one exception to the rule, and that's the church in which the person belongs.

[@ChelseaAmbrose]

Nothing in life experiences to God. Nothing. But I will listen to these to try to understand all the searching.

[@Robert08010]

Somebody should customize and sell these "declare" certificates.

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

LOL Yes! I have mine!

[@chuckbeattyo]

Mark, TIny point that is possibly annoying, please let your guests roll off their names, as you and Janis are NOT the only ones who know those people and they don't need explaining really. (Later, I hope many of those people named, still alive, you and Janis get to interview.). It's okay Mark, don't worry, those names mentioned and you don't need to explain, but the other names are like gems to be discovered and discussed at a later time, and hopefully, boy, you two I hope get the Reisdorf sisters on, and Terri on, and Laurel Watson too, and and and. (Someday, if Foster gets out, to me, if the public saw all of the LRH traffic to Foster, there's a whole deeper level connection LRH had with some people and it shows in LRH's traffic to them, and Foster got some of LRH's most heartfelt (nutty in some ways, space opera-esque) traffic in the end of LRH's life. Don't fret for your viewers Mark! This is all way more important to history, every word out of your guests' mouths, let em talk I urge you. And then, like you do, at 50:50 you tie it all together again, excellent Mark, thanks. (my advice, let your guests roll, it'll work out, and you can overview it with some great comments like you do Mark) =============== So many highlights, I love these videos, this answers so many history points to me, I lived in CW in Sea Org Dec 1975 through summer of 1983, so all Bitty's and Janis' and your recollections of CW Sea Org I saw obliquely from my jobs those years, so all these details and people's names, answer loads and loads of questions about history, thanks. 1:02:15. "Woody..." Parker, and Becky Parker. Becky was Ronnie's first wife, correct? I remember the decoupling recoupling, Ronnie and Becky, and Bitty and Foster, with the addition of Barbara (forget her maiden name), to the recoupling Ronnie and Bitty, and Foster and Barbara, and then Becky and Woody!!! That's a good one to get straight today, that's why these videos are SO good to hear. One thing, all the events of everyone's lives, help time stamp things. That trio of decoupling recoupling was in my opinion truly amicable and remarkably good from the outside as I saw it. I had Barbara and Foster also as bosses in my Sea Org, loved them both, and Bitty and Janis, and Mark, you guys were always always tops to me. Anyways, so great to hear Bitty!!

[@Robert08010]

Ironic that the ship was banned for all the shi+ is was spewing out!!!

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

LOLOLOL

[@daniellechamberlin4873]

I wonder if Bitty ever met Nev? He’s not here to ask atm.

[@Sadiecooper79]

I hear all of these stories from all of the channels I follow and I am just shocked that people’s parents would even get their kids into this (organization), and how they thought apparently it was helpful? I started following these stories when I watched the Aftermath and became intrigued with cults, and how people fall into them. Every story I hear feels like I am not even on the same planet as what I am hearing. One person LRH created this thing, and it’s ruined so many lives. All of these families torn apart etc…

[@chuckbeattyo]

QUESTION: Bitty, and Janis, and Mark, have any of you ever entertained while you were in "strategic" positions of authority in the movement, did it ever cross your minds to reduce the schedules all the way at least to US Military schedules, and housing setups? To me, that is the only way to go, namely cut schedules, cut out production based time off, just guarantee time off, and give everyone evenings off, period, except night shift persons of skeleton non married staff duty. (PLEASE answer, for history, Chuck Beatty) This interview is critical to Sea Org history, the children of Sea Org parents, or children of Sea Org staff. This should even extend to the movement, the movement, all orgs, all have to be majorly revamped, honestly, for schedules, for pay, for upbringing children. If Scientology staffing of orgs and management oversight units, is ever to continue sanely. (My suggest, is use US Military Bases schedules, time off guaranteed, leave guaranteed, children properly taken care of and parents have normal schedules to be parents, and use Military Bases as the "pilot" to follow. OR, or, or, skip all the Military tension, and just revert to all "orgs" to "Missions" and downsize, downsize, downsize to Missions and "groups" and eliminate "management" and eliminate Sea Org altogether----basically go into the Max Hauri EU "Ron's Orgs" pattern, honestly!!)

[@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady]

Chuck I never had the chance, but if I was in charge I definitely would reduce the schedules to the Real World schedules. No reason to work 7 days a week for more than 8 hours a day. I also would pay the staff a correct and decent wage rather than filling up Sea Org Reserves. Mark

[@chuckbeattyo]

@@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady Mark and Janis, I have since leaving, and I as you know, was a "Course Sup" and thus stuck pretty into the Hubbard admin options weeds, wondering why we always were having so little actual "impact" on society, we really were not tracking. Since leaving, I talked to some of the apologist "religious academics" for years, for about 4-5 years. I on my day job, I also have talked to countless nuns, priests, one bischop, some monks, and Salvation Army staff, even looking up Salvation Army setups today, and even since I grew up on US Military Army Bases, have long pondered how I'd realistically change things, were I to have become my life's goal which was to be a helper to one of the Exec Strata jobs (Exec Strata executives were to be the think tank left by LRH to strategically pull up the Hubbard ideas to continually steer strategically the movement). Salvation Army to me, is probably the best place to start. Their model is the building block I feel, if someone in WDC and Exec Strata were to do some outside homework. Scientology "top" management needs more Bitty's, it always has. Persons which genes and gumption to go study and figure out the big changes that need to be done. So happy for this series of interviews. I guess no one from the inside in OSA is actually absorbing the talk and wisdom hindsights your guests and you Mark and Janis are churning up. How to change and reform the Hubbard mess, is not going to happen overnight. But ex's talking obliquely and indirectly stumbling over it, possibly having some useful hindsights, that's how history of movement's either evolve or totally dissolve. Scientology has a load of money, so will have the quarters, the buildings, for future recuirts to come sit in the Hubbard outlined positions, and scratch their heads and wonder what they ought to do. I've hoped at least ex's offer them up some thoughts. Even is there were some dissaffected OSA staff who get to listen to the advanced hindsights of Scientology top ex's, those OSA staff don't know what to do. Best would be some Linda Hamel who secretly records some of Dave's phone calls to her, to then her taking those calls to the FBI and turning in Dave for investigation and prosecution, and sideline him. Otherwise the official mess will continue punishing members and their families under Miscavige's era of worser interpretations of Hubbard's worse regulations. Hubbard's regulations seem to have them hemmed in, and a new generation once Miscavige is long gone, might reform. Otherwise the Max Hauri "Ron's Org" still standing in the world, is about the only sensible option for Scientologists to take. Meaning, go join a squirrel group of persons you can get along with, and do the Hubbard pseudo-therapy/exorcism training and do it with them. Skip official Scientology for sure, skip having OSA on your back, etc, etc. (It's all quackery to me, so I don't recommend it, but removing Miscavige would be a start to less pain in people's lives who are official Scientologists.)

[@janisgrady]

I tried to get the staff pay increased but with the percentages LRH kept insisting be used of the weekly income and the amount being taken for reserves would not allow the increase but made pay worse. As for scheduled, every time LRH left, Mary Sue would lighten the schedule for the crew but as soon as he returned he made it worse again and demanded the longer hours for less pay.