Interview with Charismatic Cult Survivor: Steve Forkin

Thanks for watching!
Here's the "No Apologies" YT channel: / @noapologiesteam
Here's Steve Forkin's YT channel: / @reformedapologist
Here's the wonderful video "The Gospel for Those Broken by the Church:" • Gospel for Those Broke...
Here's the 2014 TV ABC News documentary about the cult: www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-2...
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[@cord11ful]

"As soon as you put the gospel front and centre, you can't have a cult" - spot on Steve.

[@carbine090909]

I'm so glad you kept your faith in Jesus. 🙏🏻

[@NoApologiesTeam]

I am glad that he is my brother in Christ

[@reformedapologist]

So am I - here but by the grace of God go I.... I am just a sinner in need of Christ's mercy each day - a beggar asking for bread and Christ is an ever willing saviour!

[@ab-gail]

Me too 🙏💕

[@Weissguys6]

The importance of this conversation at this time in history cannot be overstated. God bless you, Mr. Forkin for sharing your experience, and @The Messed Up Church Steve Kozar, may God continue to use your ministry to His Glory for those lost in this deception. 🙏

[@SolaGratia.]

Amen and amen.

[@snicko6872]

Great comment, totally agree. 👏👏

[@reformedapologist]

Thanks - it's a blessing to me to know that our work helps people on the journey out of deception.

[@cathywestholt5324]

Why did I stay? That is such a good question. I have asked myself that so often. I am so grateful for channels like yours, Chris's, Daniel's and others for knocking those scales off my eyes.

[@Dilley_G45]

Don't forget Bryan Wolfmueller and Dr. Jordan Cooper 😉

[@NoApologiesTeam]

Indeed the compelling question.

[@reformedapologist]

Thanks for your comment, am glad this helps... listening to Chris Rosebrough was immensely healing on my journey out of deception as he is such a good Bible expositor and he has such a wicked sense of humour which really helps...

[@TheJpep2424]

People stay because they are blind to the truth. Jesus said men love darkness rather than the light.

[@juliemayes2027]

You probably stayed as I did in cult I was in fear , abject fear of a god manipulated by these deceptive manipulative and some evil people but The True God is NOTHING like that and unless you have been through something like this yourself people won’t get it oh and fear of hell if you leave or disobey

[@toolegittoquit_001]

His accent is awesome You can hear the Aussie, German and Scottish ...

[@NoApologiesTeam]

Too true. He's is what Malaysians call Rojak (mixed types) 🤣

[@davidjarvie9546]

Yes, I could hear the mix even before he acknowledged it. Definitely noticed the Scott's and German...and obviously the English and Aussie. I love accents..🙏🙏🙏

[@tosin8401]

Hear the Aussie and the German but the Scottish?

[@ab-gail]

You really can!

[@susanneohmes1044]

A cult and an abusive relationship have one vital thing in common. Victims are in a fog F ear O bligation G uilt

[@tonn333]

Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom I feel an obligation to spread the good news of the gospel And I feel guilt when I don’t do as much as I know I could have

[@bretoner2]

@@tonn333 he's referring to fear of man, obligation to the cult, and guilt of not submitting to the false teachings

[@tonn333]

@@bretoner2 I know

[@RandomChristianMusings]

@@tonn333 I knew you were, too. 👍 I came out of the Vineyard movement of the 1980's. Thankfully, I wasn't sexually abused. But, oh! The false teaching...

[@alissakain9302]

Ohhh this is good, fog. I’ll definitely remember that. I feel like a lot of the NAR up and comers are heading that direction.

[@williewiner4161]

I know for me when I was born my parents went to a church founded by a woman and such I had nothing to compare it to. Praise God after many years of stumbling around to various churches God brought me out of all the ridiculous stuff and to a Church where truth is taught. Upon hearing the truth I had peace , joy, comfort, relief, hunger for more! Thank gentlemen for sharing this video!

[@kathytincler2446]

So happy you have had a good outcome, a testimony to the power of the gospel to salvation!

[@NoApologiesTeam]

Hey Willie!!!! Good to see you again

[@c_rhynehardt]

When he said "guy with the beehive on his head" i almost fell out of my chair laughing" 😂

[@Lu20243]

Here in south-germany the charismatic/ Pentecostal movement is getting worse and worse. And Today people from America come to us - Todd White , Bill Johnson, Daniel Kollenda, Heidi Baker... were in Stuttgart or Nürnberg (South Germany). Many of my friends love these events with those people. I was in the Pentecostal movement for over 30 years and i'm so glad i'm out - thank god and thank you for your important work - your clips👍 Greetings from Germany - Corinna

[@escolhidoerwaehlt]

Hi Corinna, I'm also from Germany. Jean-Christoph Nadon, whose son Jonny Nadon founded the "Schule der Erweckung", was our Youth Pastor. He runs a church in Füssen. They are now on stage with Awakening Europe. Blessings, Sigrun

[@frizzyrascal1493]

South Germany here too, former Church of God member, I stepped out last summer. The teachings and scripture was twisted for personal gains, so many families (including mine) were collateral damage and my faith has never been healthier. But I do long for a spiritually healthy church. I am done with charismatic movements. Too much weird stuff…god bless you, Corinna.

[@BobbiMac08]

Just a random American popping in to say hello. We lived in the tiny town of Kleinrinderfeld for 4 yrs while my husband was stationed in Giebelstadt. Bavaria is such a beautiful area and the people we met were(are) wonderful!

[@reformedapologist]

Great to read you are out - yeah I know all these names - each worse than the other... worst of all you never hear about Christ from these people its always the "special interaction with the Spirit and them" sadly it's not the true Holy Spirit...

[@Anabee3]

We don't send our best, do we? Smh. Manoman. On behalf of USA- Im so sorry, Corinna (& all of South Germany).

[@KatAmanti]

I can see the pain in Steve Forkin’s eyes! I am so thankful for you all exposing all this crazy stuff!

[@eileenjared]

I grow up in a church just like Bethel and I saw demonic possessed people acting like lions and the voice that came out of them was horrific. And my prayer always was God please protect me don’t let any of that get in me. Even as a child I saw and felt that was weird and could not come from God. And at 17 I revealed for 10 years after so much traumatic events and at 27 God opened my eyes in Utah!!!! Seeing all the culture changed by a cult opened my eyes and mid all work of God in me. Praise Jesus for opening my eyes and drawing me to Himself. 🙌

[@ryanehlis426]

Bethel is a very good church and BSSM is an excellent ministry school.

[@eileenjared]

@@ryanehlis426 with your Benny Hinn picture I see how blind you are for the NAR narrative. I am so sorry you are being led by those charlatans and false prophets. Our hope is only found in Christ alone!!! Man are falible but the word of God is infalible. We are saved by grace of God not by our own works that is what Ephesians 2:8-10 says.

[@Slpy0509]

@@ryanehlis426no…they are goat farming cults.

[@Robb3348]

@@ryanehlis426 simply stating your opinion, without reason or evidence, is completely non-cogent. how can you not realize that??

[@ryanehlis426]

@@Robb3348 I know people at BSSM, and I went to a 5 day “school of the prophets” this summer at Bethel. I have listened to many Bill Johnson sermons, definitely one of the most sound and balanced teachers today.

[@BrotherJohnElving]

Thank you for this video. God bless your family. Blessings from Canada 🇨🇦

[@cecilianbarrett6417]

I am so glad to see your comment here! I keep wanting to ask you if there is an email that I can add a little more to than I do in my comments to your videos on your channel. I need to do better about going into so much detail with my comments. That's just something that the Lord had been dealing with me on. But I didn't want to ask on your channel for an email and get you blown up with people who may not be supportive of the work you are doing in calling people out. Is there an email address that I can send you some things & people to look into? And maybe a little more of my experiences, and the things I've personally witnessed in a new apostolic reformation church-turned-cult?

[@Josh-yr7gd]

I was in Amway for 4 years. I stayed in because they called us losers if we were to quit. They said that people end up quitting 2 days before their breakthrough. With that mindset why would someone want to miss out on their blessing? Just hold on for 2 more days. That led to some people still holding on in anticipation 10-15 years later. They also used the example of a Chinese bamboo tree, by describing how it stays dormant for 4 years in which you won’t see anything above the surface during that time. But in that 5th year it shoots up. So they were essentially telling us to stay in for at least 5 years. Thankfully God let me see that things weren’t adding up and I left before getting to that point.

[@Steadfast_Steady_Strong]

I’m curious to know if anyone has insight to whether “It Works!” is like this, too. Do you know? I know some individuals involved in the higher ranks of “It Works!”, and they became very materialistic, showy, and insistent that their involvement in the “business” is ministry and that their big gatherings are like worship services.

[@Josh-yr7gd]

@@Steadfast_Steady_Strong Thanks for asking. I’ve heard about “It Works”, but I really don’t know much else other than it’s an MLM. What I can tell you is Amway (World Wide Dream Builders) definitely used Christianity to manipulate people. As a believer, I trusted the “mentors”, uplines and major leaders because they all claimed to have faith in God. During the larger conventions, John Maxwell, a former pastor, gave motivational leadership talks. On the Sunday during the big conferences they actually had a worship service and a pastor named Paul Tsika (pronounced see-kah) give prosperity sermons. Now, did some people come to Christ during the altar calls at these services? Absolutely. But the entire organization is founded upon deception and it troubles me that those new believers will someday have to separate the reality of their faith from the counterfeit nature of the business. And yes, the higher ups did claim that it can be considered a “back door ministry”. ALL MLM’s, network marketing, affiliate marketing, “independent business owner” related organizations are pyramid schemes and scams. They are corrupt, but unfortunately many have found legal ways to stay in business. They’ll tell you that they’re different from all the others out there. LIES! I would stay clear of EVERYTHING that even hints of a multi-level compensation based structure.

[@Josh-yr7gd]

@@Steadfast_Steady_Strong I gave you well-thought out reply, but KZbin deleted it from this thread. Please look in the general comment section and you’ll find my answer addressed directly to you. Hope to hear your thoughts about it.

[@Iris-2023gh]

They manipulated people for their benefit. Very evil indeed. Some died, and those survived face all kinds of psychological problems. Some are so broken that they can't function, and it affects them for the rest of their life. Self-centred religious groups are very toxic. No words can describe their selfish, wicked intentions. Only they are right, others are wrong all the way. Those idiots are really narcissistic to the core. On wonder people leave for other faith. What they preach os not Christianity, but their own invented religion!

[@Josh-yr7gd]

@@Iris-2023gh Exactly. They used brainwashing and cult tactics. We had to read books, listen to audio testimonies and daily listen to voice messages from the team and leave our own messages, in order to be in good standing with the “mentors”. That emersion kept people from thinking for themselves and dismissing any dissenting views. Also, they told us to cut off ties with negativity and naysayers even if it came from family members. That’s what cults do. Thankfully I still lived my life as usual and didn’t cut anyone out of my life.

[@tatimiracy]

Legacy, legacy,legacy, fiiiiire and then proceed to watch that man being possessed uncontrollably 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@georgeanddiane]

Charismatic belief is exhausting ...always making sure... Instead of assurance in Christ and Christ alone.

[@katherinebangle540]

He promises "salvation " to his followers...YIKES "Put not your trust in princes, in the son of man, in whom there is no salvation. " Psalm 146:3 ESV Praise GOD, Sir, you have been delivered from this cult🙏 GOD bless you! I truly enjoy Hit the Bar Down Under!

[@bryanbulmer6716]

I think you had a typo there. You said: "in the son of man, in whom there is no salvation".

[@wkeenan8050]

@@bryanbulmer6716 No, I think that is right. In this passage, it is not the Son of Man (Christ), it is the son of man (Adam). Don't put your trust in flesh, in other words.

[@NoApologiesTeam]

Wonderful. Glad you like joining us.

[@rebekkacurrie9422]

Sadly sone of my friends joined one of the home churches of that cult in Brisbane about 25 years ago. They cut everyone off. I heard one person has left but I often wonder what happened to my other friend. I am so glad you and your family got out and have grown in your faith.

[@reformedapologist]

Thanks Rebekka

[@ladyesther]

I enjoyed this conversation. I remember when I left my church I struggled because I felt so guilty in some sense and like I was "leaving God". I went through disillusionment and eventually found another church but I still wasn't grounded in my beliefs. Still had some charismatic thinking patterns (and still do from time to time). But today I am more educated in theology, but still learning. I have to say I still struggle wanting to dissect that train wreck of a church that imploded. I guess I want to understand what happened so I never fall prey to other's control even again.

[@jennifercunningham8834]

I felt that way too when I left building but now I understand we are called to Him, I’m much happier because you have more knowledge of him learn at His feet, the buildings keep u in the dark, u never grew up

[@gloriauselton9897]

Never ever forget I John 2:27. Pray for understanding. Don't let anyone or anything come between you and Jesus. John 14:6. Much Love in Christ!

[@mothersgauri4137]

This is an absolutely wonderful interview. Thank you so much to both of you. I do believe it will help a lot of people !

[@TheCaliReadingTeacher]

“Self-Styled Messiah”. That fits. 💥👀

[@NoApologiesTeam]

We're so glad you got some benefit from this discussion with our boy Steve from Downunder

[@caroliner2029]

It's an apt phrase. I'm studying iz-lame, and the false prophet Muhammad was obviously a narcissist, psychopath and pedophile. He was a self-styled chosen prophet and final authority, which facade he maintained by using his ventriloquist's dummy al-lah. Iz-lame breeds narcissists, psychopaths and pedos. My mother was a narcissist, and she was our family cult leader. The dynamics are the same "don't ask questions, don't think for yourself, don't talk to anyone outside the cult about what's really happening". I first went to a Catholic school and church, then went with my family to a Pentecostal church, later to a woke style Baptist church, watched Joyce Meyer on TV, and finally have had my eyes opened in the past two years. I didn't know that 'Replacement Theology ' was a thing, and now I can see that it was part of church culture, taught even without being explicitly stated, as Joyce Meyer does, applying all the Scriptures meant for Jews to Christians. I've rejected praying "in tongues" which was always boring and not biblical. I remember on many occasions Pentecostal church people trying to push me over when they were praying for me up the front. I hate that! Not sure how it isn't assault. I'd always brace myself like I do while standing on public transport so that I don't fall over. I knew that it wasn't the Lord God pushing me over, as He'd shown Himself to me as gentle and one who cared about my human dignity. My narcissist mother never cared about maintaining my dignity.

[@Savedbygrace22]

Before I even listen I want to say thanks Steve Kozar! I was wanting Steve Forkin on No Apologies to explain the particulars of his leaving that cult and here you are getting the scoop. 👍

[@TheCaliReadingTeacher]

The man with the bun on his head!!! 😂🤣🤣. Yep, that’s Todd!! More like a beehive.

[@The_Warrior526]

I see it more like a wad of dreadlocks. lol.

[@TheCaliReadingTeacher]

@@The_Warrior526 It’s a wad of something. How often do you think he shampoos???🤷‍♀️😳 Not enough.

[@jobrown8146]

Yes, watch out you don't get stung.

[@Dilley_G45]

Todd Marley

[@TheCaliReadingTeacher]

@@Dilley_G45 🤣🤣🤣. Good one!!!!

[@AfricanSheep]

This was the interview I never knew I needed to hear. Absolutely fascinating and also terrifying at the same time. God bless you Steve x2.

[@StevenKozarMessedUpChurch]

God bless you too!

[@laurieshouse]

Just wanted to say, Steve, that I very much appreciate you letting your guest speak without interruption. When you did speak, it was to contribute something useful to the conversation. So many interviewers can't get that balance right.

[@tammyspurdle9208]

Thank you guys, excellent, very helpful conversation. ❤

[@Anabee3]

SO TRUE> Ppl who stay/return to abusive rltnshps. Ppl who commit crimes to return to prison. Its bad & unhealthy- But they know their role, what to do...how to navigate thru life in those environments. And the fear of the unknown...what if something else is somehow worse?

[@frizzyrascal1493]

It‘s a trauma response.

[@gabymeyer8003]

These conversations are so valuable, Steve!

[@bobpaul4572]

Great Interview! That Bro. Is a Wonderful man of God. I learned Much!

[@briannehill7583]

Im sad i missed this but happy to catch the replay. I am so blessed by no apologies and hit the bar.

[@robine1018]

I certainly didn’t have this kind of experience, but I grew up in a Pentecostal church. Never really taught the Bible. I was taught running the isles, speaking in tongues and shouting were normal. I never really knew how to become a Christian. I absolutely felt convicted, but never had assurance of salvation. The preaching was maybe one verse, lots of stories and screaming. It was a good service if the “Holy Spirit” took over the service and people just shouted and spoke in “tongues” That makes me feel so disgusted now. They don’t truly know who the Holy Spirit is. It was never learning the Bible. Every week, Jesus was coming any moment. It took years to get the indoctrination out of my head and find true salvation In Christ. I’m so grateful I got away from it when my children were young and they know sound doctrine. They know the Bible. They study the Bible faithfully. I’m grateful they didn’t grow up under the charismatic false teaching.

[@jesusisLordperiod.]

But you shun tongues and the gifts, which are in the Bible? Make it make sense. We have the gospel, but in the church the gifts are given by God. They are from the Holy Spirit, who is God. Please stop shunning Him.

[@lilpoohbear653]

once you get out of it...then you can see it clearly! happened to me as well...over 30 years of that mess...but God's grace. I now realize, if the "holy spirit" takes over the service just usually means the pastor/speaker/preacher is lazy and unprepared to exegete the scripture

[@robine1018]

@@lilpoohbear653 Exactly

[@jesusisLordperiod.]

@@lilpoohbear653 When the Spirit takes over the service for real it is a beautiful thing.

[@lorraineolsen2377]

Well ive got you beat.....i was in it for 60 years. Now at 66 yrs old i am learning what my true theology is. An old dog can learn new tricks.

[@machtnichtsseimann]

Oh, wow. That brought me back. Got into a debate with a woman at a Revival Center once over...drum roll...tongues as evidence of the Full Power of the Spirit! Yeah, accepting Christ is good, but get the 2nd baptism, then take off like a rocket! Yup, thoroughly Pentecostal community that were all into Kenneth Hagin and such. Accept Jesus + Tongues = Higher Level of Being Christian. It played with my head for a while, for years, in fact. Took me a while to finally grow strong enough to stand on my own and resist cheapshots from fellow Christians who hold THEIR view as THE best and only best way.

[@lorraineolsen2377]

I was raised in that same group but we were taught that speaking in tongues = Being filled with the Holy Spirit. So in other words you dont get the Holy Spirit at salvation but you get it when you speak in tongues which could be years later!

[@jackpijjin4088]

I struggled so much with that teaching. I'm no super bible scholar but I knew enough to not give into it- but I made sure to ask and pray, "God, if this is truly your will, to show your presence in this way, and that I may speak in tongues, then your will be done." It didn't happen, and instead, He guided me to the scriptures that showed what 'tongues' actually meant. When you suffer from intense depression and feel like you're worthless, believing that God has abandoned you because you didn't perform some silly action is so emotionally devastating and makes you feel that Christ died in vain if he died for you. I am so thankful I was lead away from that cult.

[@Ann_0103]

@@lorraineolsen2377 I was a part of this type of church for two years, and they taught that you receive the Holy Spirit at salvation, but you must be “filled with the Holy Spirit” = speaking the tongues. Amazingly, they can not see the inconsistencies around this ONE doctrine amongst their denomination. Yet, have the nerve to believe they are all right AND be highly controlling.

[@bryanbulmer6716]

Wow, that was very interesting and very disturbing as well. Thanks for sharing your story, im glad you got out of that.

[@Ruby-wise]

Thank y’all --Steve-Steve. Great show! I can relate on so many fronts…

[@tagladyify]

We, in the church, need to get to the place where no one gets between us and The Holy Spirit, ever. He was the one sent to lead us and guide us, not human beings. Not to say that we do not need each other or to be accountable, but this other stuff is idolatry.

[@Dilley_G45]

As a Christian one has the Holy Spirit. Sadly many people teach false about what the Holy Spirit is and accuse others of not having it. Acts 2:38-39 for the comfort

[@markyontz9119]

Weeeeellll ..... I bet you a quarter that the leader of the cult this gentleman was in would definitly tell you that "Nobody comes between the Holy Spirit and me." That he hears directly from God. I think I may understand what you may be trying to emphasize, but the way you are saying it makes me quite uncomfortable - Because of what I have experienced, seen,heard and read, ect

[@susanneohmes1044]

I’m German laughing along with the funny linguists we do! My grandkids laugh and find it cute, I always look at them and don’t see why it’s funny….😂

[@autumn4115]

Your guest is just so spot on! My goodness he is good! And yes he is absolutely right... charismatics are about mysticism! I couldn't have said it better!!!!

[@Weissguys6]

Thank you for all the links. 😊

[@g.h_-heart-_bunny]

Thank you both for this video☺️

[@jackjones3657]

May God continue to bless your work! There are A LOT of bad "churches" in our day that are spiritually abusive and creating stumbling blocks to healing Biblical faith in Christ.

[@jackiwheeler6963]

Thank you Steve for these videos. Real eye openers

[@WilliamtheWorst]

Two of my favorite gents!

[@NoApologiesTeam]

WTW my main man!

[@lindseyh5735]

Me too 🤩

[@NoApologiesTeam]

@@lindseyh5735 Love you too Lindsey 😁

[@reformedapologist]

@@NoApologiesTeam Thanks guys - for the encouraging feedback - glad we can be of assistance in some small way - God bless you all

[@cathywestholt5324]

Hi from your St. Louis campus! 🙋‍♀️ Thanks for all both you do! ❤❤

[@ivanasimic2072]

Thank you both!

[@juliebriz1703]

Thank you so much guys....much needed content...

[@DeclaringChristsGlory]

Praise God for showing me this video. I’ve seen you on brother Chris (F4F) channel, so recognised you’re face. 😄 Thank you for this video, I’ve learned a lot! Praise be to God! 🙌🏼 I’ll watch that sermon for the broken church today. Thank You, Jesus for freedom in Your everlasting grace! 🙌🏼🙏🏻 HalleluYah! 🪔✨

[@nelsonpetersen7858]

Excellent interview! Thanks for making this available. Very helpful in so many ways.

[@jenbrown8704]

Great interview! Thank you

[@dusankakandija7423]

thank you so much! this was such a great interview. God bless you

[@roberttaylor2607]

Great interview! Thankyou

[@selahr.]

Really great interview. Thank you for being so open.

[@valerieb8006]

Excellent interview!🙏

[@dashlamb9318]

Thank you gentlemen for a superb informational conversation.

[@dusankakandija7423]

PRAISE GOD!!!! so sorry to hear what happened to you, dear Steve and am overjoyed that you are so well and established by God now! 💛 God bless you and keep you, and our Steve Kozar, Paulette and their family of course also

[@DearWokeChristian]

Nice work, Koz!

[@resolutebelle8761]

I very much appreciate your videos and share them often. Thank you, dear Paulette and your doggies! ❤ You're doing good work!

[@davidjarvie9546]

Interesting and compulsive interview, Thanks Steve. 🙏🙏🙏

[@MsNZgal]

This is a great video. I wasn't involved in a cult but can relate to both of you with your experiences in many ways. There are so many good points brought out in this discussion. Thank you for posting.

[@mikewilliams9651]

Thanks Steve and Steve. That was really very good. I started off thinking that it was about some heavy extreme cult experience, which it was, but then it had such good insights about general Charismatic experience and goings on. It is very helpful because I think so many people are still trying to make sense of it all.

[@eric_sandstrom]

Wow! That was so heavy that scene at Bethel. That wasn't fakery that was demonic power

[@RandomChristianMusings]

I live in Redding, Ca. The NAR is HUGE up here. There's a major principality involved here. They even encourage something called the Zozo (sp?) prayer. I seem to remember Zozo, or a similar sounding word, from my Led Zeppelin days.

[@susanflight2626]

Thank you sirs! God Bless

[@lavernmartin7918]

Steve, I think this is your best and most important video ever!

[@juliemayes2027]

Thank so much all of you and also just subscribed to your channel Australian steve as I am already subscribed to other two and I was also a member of a cult and I shudder looking back at what a person can convince you of when you don’t know Scripture which is why I now do know it so much better with lots more learning to do which brilliant channels like yours so helps with because in the cult I was in I was being starved I won’t go into details but praise Him for setting us both free and intelligence has absolutely nothing to do with it

[@benji7775]

Indoctrination constant pressure and pressure to believe a way that isn't biblical,, love you and paulette thank you guys for helping me get out the cult ❤❤❤❤in Jesus name

[@MarkD-be2kn]

Great conversation!

[@dearfellowsheep]

This was so good, especially the ending conversation.

[@pammckanna4778]

That was so interesting. Thanks.

[@ryanbeaver6080]

I found Steve’s channel a couple weeks ago, he’s a blessing! I had no idea of his background to this degree, or that he’d been through all of this. He’s a brilliant guy, and solid brother. Glad you had him on, and hope to see much from Steve. God bless you 🙏

[@ryanbeaver6080]

Steve’s story is heartbreaking. His testimony is beautiful and remarkable though. Love you brother Steve. Thank you for sharing, and hope to see more of your work.

[@Mumbo24]

I’m so grateful for your videos Steve. My sister is currently in a cult and my family is greatly distressed over it. Videos like this make us feel less crazy about the cult tactics we see in the “church” she attends.

[@LizetteMassmann]

Good morning sir..may I say that I love your videos.. especially "hit the bar"I love the dogs♥️greetings from Zambia Africa

[@kindnessheals]

It would be interesting to hear his wife’s experience of coming out of the cult. I am also very concerned about the young boys- the children of cult families. If this cult leader was sexually interested in young boys as young as ten- is anyone looking out for these kids and teens? If he is sexually abusing grown men, what do you suppose is happening to their sons? Very concerning.

[@terryramsey1484]

Totally agree!

[@stevenconrad7406]

Isn't it an example of God's mercy that he restores and heals today the truth of God's word prevails.

[@reformedapologist]

Amen - absolutely

[@Sandra-wv3ow]

Interesting! Thank you.

[@tamaraabbas3875]

Thank you gents for this discussion. I just now watched the 4 corners documentary, and the horror of the cult and Williams is truly sickening. And that he was never brought to earthly justice is astounding. I tried to find out where this evil man and his organisation is to this day and couldn't find much... surely he is not still practising.. ??!! There is one report I saw that he passed away in 2015.. is that true? As an Australian, I had never heard of this evil cult before.

[@reformedapologist]

He is dead... and I can't say whether there was any true remorse or repentance... the group still exists -- they changed the name and tried to "re-invent" themselves to make it all look "new" as cults often do when stuff goes belly up... they are still in operation am afraid to say. After I left all their followers were told to avoid me in public -- if they came within 5 meters of me "my demons" would jump from me onto them.... all very sad & evil stuff

[@tamaraabbas3875]

@@reformedapologist all so very wicked. It must be hard to still live in the same community. I've been to Coffs Harbour, I suppose it's not the smallest town but not the largest either and there would be occasions you might still run into people. I live in Emerald Central QLD and we have a small cult here.. called The Fellowship. I had a friend who came out of it and who suffered ostracism and rejection because of it.. but that cult has no history (at least that i know of!) of the horrific abuse that you and others suffered. I have to say God's grace over your life is a beautiful thing to see, and I very much appreciate your wisdom and insights through the ministries you are a part of. God bless you brother!

[@Dilley_G45]

Many bad things happen in Australia, Scott Chopper Williams, Hellsong,... luckily there are still good churches although not always local. Hate the trip to syd for work, and then still half to syd on Sunday morning

[@reformedapologist]

@@Dilley_G45 Hopefully you have found a good church in the meantime - if not reach out and we might be able to help you

[@reformedapologist]

@@tamaraabbas3875 Thanks so much for your feedback. Yes in the early years after leaving it was tough at times... in the meantime I rarely think about it and God has blessed Katja my wife and I very much with new friends and the local Presbyterian church is great. It's a breath of fresh air to hear gospel centered preaching that elevates Christ every Sunday. We all need to hear the gospel each week.. and be reminded of the wonders of the cross and the work of Christ.

[@michellewarren5842]

Oh my if Judged by your cooking I would have been kicked out from the jump. 😂 I’m sorry to hear of the traumatic experiences praise be to our Lord and savior for setting you free ! Thank you both for the video

[@christinepearce6229]

Me too!!

[@AlizaDasha]

They get everybody's mind off of Jesus and onto themselves and their own faith. How they strive to build up their faith and make themselves strong. Instead of just kneeling beside their bed and asking Jesus for mercy and strength, healing and protection, forgiveness and wisdom. Petitioning Him for all their needs, and simply trusting Him with their life and soul. It's not about how strong we are and how much faith we can drum up. Simply ask. Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need Philippians 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

[@mwendyt]

Great video was at a Charismatic church for 20 years left started bringing in teachings of Bill Johnson at Bethel the Holy Spirit in me was grieved conflict we don’t decree or declare anything only God does that ! Praise God I am now in a Reformed Baptist church so grateful. A lot Renewing my mind.

[@reformedapologist]

Great news!

[@Dilley_G45]

An improvement, hope you do another upgrade 😊

[@mwendyt]

@@Dilley_G45 and what would that be ?

[@Dilley_G45]

@@mwendyt for example LCMS or AALC

[@petemiller9865]

Come to middle America, and you'll find the heart of the false charismatic movement. The amount of spiritual abuse is disgusting 👊✌️

[@bryanbulmer6716]

I went on a mission trip for 3 months to Costa Rica and I saw a lot of it there. Back then I didn't know that it was wrong because I was newly saved. It was probably 6 years ago.

[@petemiller9865]

@bryanbulmer6716 I've grown up in Missouri. It's an access point to the feel-good, not tested by the scripture hub of the US. I watch my parents indulge in these movements daily. My father has cancer and a couple of other health issues, but instead of following the doctors, he's waiting on some false teacher, Bart and Kim Hadaway, to heal him...because they know Bill Johnson. I'm so mad and disgusted at the blatant heresy that people are gorging on these days. Come quickly, Lord. 👊✌️

[@SolaGratia.]

I live in the deep south and I feel like that's what it's like here too. It seems most the really egregious ones are based below the Mason-Dixon line. I'll admit that we do have more churches that call themselves Baptist or Methodist, but if you attend, many are just Charismatic Lite. It's infiltrated a lot more denominations than just the obviously charismatic/wof ones.

[@rudolfkasanpawiro644]

​@petemiller9865 So sorry for your Dad. I was in it too.

[@kathytincler2446]

@@petemiller9865 I'm so sorry to hear that....I'm sure it's heartbreaking for you. I will pray your parents' eyes to be opened with the true gospel and strength and patience for you continue in dealing with your parents in love. God bless you!

[@jenniferdennis8052]

I was in a cultish church in the beginning of my christian walk and it took a long time to come out of that way of thinking but i havent thrown the baby out with the bathwater so to speak .... thanks for sharing very good❤❤🎉🎉

[@caroliner2029]

@6:53 mins Steven K reflecting his insights back to Steve F: When we see the difficult road someone has walked, what they've come through, and how they're still standing and holding onto the Lord Jesus, being able to give sincere insights and reflect the truth of the situation back to them, that's ministry. Believers need other wise, empathetic believers who can comfort them with the same comfort that the Holy Spirit has shown them. In cult dynamics, there is usually no one else who can look at the situation objectively and reflect back what they see. We all need that. We need someone to say "that's weird!", "that's not biblical", "you should leave", etc.

[@janetsmith8566]

Wow. God bless you both.

[@wnctg]

Call out their false teaching

[@Dilley_G45]

21:40 fyi even in Bavaria not everyone is Christian, and more than 5% are protestants today. Still the most catholic part but what is described is mostly small town and rural. Yes the German school system WAS very good and Bavaria had a very good reputation there

[@alainaaugust1932]

Super up to 1:22:54 when you started sounding a tad culty. Love the sincerity of both of you, glad you are out of an abusive framework, admire your spirituality. Consider the wisdom of the YT algorithm. It pops you up because I explore YT videos about cults. Recently in the YT CoS (cult of Scientology) community there has, with good reason, emerged a saying: You can take the person out of Scientology, but you can’t always take the Scientology out of the person. Might something similar apply to you both also? Never-ins, another ex-CoS term, in comments like this repeatedly see what those still healing from cult abuse fail to see about themselves. Like rigid belief in the rightness of one’s now strongly held new belief system. Like “onlyism.” As in, this is the only way. No room for pluralism, diversity, inclusion, equity among and respect for divergent minds, but rather the rigid adhesion to certainty. To one’s own certainty, along with near condemnation of another human being’s spirituality. Rigid certainty is a defense against fear. Please do accept this comment with openness and compassion. Blessings.

[@gloriauselton9897]

I read I John 2:27 often a very good reminder. I take only the bible as full truth. I go to a church but I don't take my pastors words as infallible. Take all back to the bible. Nothing should ever be placed between us and Jesus our mediator and Father Abba.

[@saltandlight2510]

We have friends who were also involved with this cult and we also know of the damage that the network marketing company (Mannatech) that was mentioned had on the local church community in the area- Lifehouse church played a huge part in pushing this company for financial gain- great interview!

[@rsh793]

I remember this and the invasion of some crazy yank churches too and they didn't get too much traction across the ordinary Christians in Scotland coz of their attraction to wealth and how far they were from Christianity. The sad thing is that there are so many vulnerable people who are open to these people amd it's getting more and more as there are so many vulnerable people who aren't being held in communities and kept safe

[@escolhidoerwaehlt]

Thanks for confirming that this falling back is demonic. I used to be in the Charismatik Movement for about 16 years. I never fell back until a healing evangelist came to town. At the end he asked who wanted to have more power to evangelise. Well, who doesn't!? I came to the front as well as others. He moved his arm and we all fell by a powerful force. Like a powerful wave hits you. Benny Hinn's jacket waving reminds me of that. And I wonder if they get it by this grave sucking thing that's going on. Thanks! Keep up the good work! Greetings from Germany! Sigrun

[@user-wm4vd6lc1q]

I had something happen to me years ago when i was in aprayer meeting I was in a charismatic church as I was standing one minute praying the next minute I was pushed on to a chair by a stong power of some kind thank you for letting me know from this video and for years i was wondering what it was and now I know what it is exactly now

[@caroliner2029]

@34:42 mins Watching the woman yelling "legacy, legacy, legacy! FIRE!" I'm reminded of the laughing fad that came to the church in the 1990s. The "Toronto Blessing". I'd never heard anyone address that until I saw Pastor Joe Schirmmel's series of videos on it, and I very much appreciated it. It's definitely demonic, and not from the Holy Spirit of self-control.

[@joanprasky1243]

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[@g.h_-heart-_bunny]

Praise God that Steve F. got out and God has saved him ✝️☺️ I just watched the documentary and it's so sad what the victims had to go through.

[@deannemiller891]

People stay because it's familiar, but also because of guilt and fear. You'll set a bad example if you leave," and "you'll never be able to make it on your own."

[@dorothyhinkel185]

There is much confusion in churches. It's difficult to find one that makes sound doctrine a top priority. I was fortunate to be part of one from 18 to present...decades later You shall know the truth and the truth will make you free.

[@wnctg]

Praise God I was taken out of rcc, and oneness penecostals. It was horrible, they are the crazy pharisees.

[@beequeen626]

Praise God! 🙌

[@trevino37]

I am a former charismatic amd I find that most church going Christian dont want to hear my stories or anything I have to say that is negative of the church system. They treat me as if I am a backslider simply because I no longer attend the systematic church system. However, I also find that those church going Christians are the least people wanting to engage in theological discussion or even read anything I write or share on different theological subjects. They say I am missing the covering of a pastor and opened to all sorts of false theology. Yet false theologies comes from within the church, not from those who are no longer attending. Either way, they go to church yet have very little of Christ outside of it...

[@judereggievelez7467]

So eerily similar to the cult leader (TB Joshua) in Nigeria that BBC made a documentary on just a few months ago.

[@MJBK675]

I once was part of a Bible Study from a charismatic church but I attended a conservative church. I was challenged to disobey my husband and leave my church to join theirs. I was offered a place to live apart from my family and this action would force my husband to agree to change churches. It caused quite an upheaval in my marriage for a few months until I woke up and broke all contact with this group. I had to stop seeing them completely because they would not stop trying to get me to change. This group also promised a dear friend of mine that they could heal her from being a lesbian just by prayer. Speaking in tongues was also a sign of your faith journey, if you didn’t then you weren’t a mature believer.

[@kumaroadking1580]

Amen

[@concernedspouse8724]

This is so necessary for today. My spouse is ensconced in one of these types of groups. They are the 'bride' to usher in the man-child. I would have sent this to him but once Finny was mentioned in a negative frame, I wouldn't be able to. I would like to know more of how Charles Finney was so detrimental in the US. He wasn't a tongues, etc preacher, but he was a live holy to the Lord preacher. I personally have used some of his materials -at times, not all the time- and have experienced personal revival. By revival I mean true repentance of sin and true forgiveness from God.

[@ModernMozart1104]

Do a video on the cult "kairos" located in Roseville CA. Absolutely mad house cult.

[@NoApologiesTeam]

BASTA! And he sounds German to me! Hahaha LOL 🤪

[@Getlostandwander]

He sounds more Scottish to me and maybe a hint of German.

[@Dilley_G45]

​@@Getlostandwandermore Aussie to me than anything....not really German, not fully Aussie but mostly Aussie

[@The_Warrior526]

Basta, in German would be: "GENUG!!!"

[@wkeenan8050]

I hear German!

[@kathytincler2446]

Sounds Aussie to me LOL