INTJ Depression? Ni-Fi Loop

The simulation! It's great for the preparation of things to come, and difficult for some emotional circumstances before they occur in reality.
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Typing disclaimer: Hi my name is Lindsay, I'm an actual INTJ typed in a double blind study using the scientific method on a 512 scale. Official type is: FM Ni/Te BPSC via Objective Personality. INTJ by standard Jungian and MBTI scales.
#INTJ #Depression #NiFiLoop

[@empemitheos]

Most people are depressed about the past, we're depressed about the future.

[@InternetLiJo]

Right? That's why it's weird.

[@888Longball]

I rarely think of the past and always look forward.

[@zoehiner6069]

I'm an intj female. I really believe the future does not exist, because when it comes it becomes the present. I really like to think about it because the present leads to the future present.

[@mastermindrational1907]

Zoe Hiner today will be yesterday tomorrow

[@reizer05]

Yeah sometimes im depress about some past i had experience.

[@Hoven165]

"You're sad about something that hasn't happened yet". I've never thought about how to put this in words. It's so relatable.

[@carynm.4662]

Anticipatory grief.

[@MHBTNO]

Yep. And with all that brain power it’s really easy to imagine all the bad outcomes that could possibly happen. My anxiety loves this. 🙄🙄🙄

[@doughull1345]

And I get sad I'll play the feeling of how I got sad over and over and over again till I make sense of it, and here lies the problem, I have to ask questions, two results this, sad State that I'm in. And having a very limited amount of education, to ask those questions, I don't know whether you know, what I'm talking about but that's as close to layman's terms as I can get it.

[@kavitasingh5604]

Because of ni dom .

[@coromandus]

Person: goodness, what happened? INTJ: I've been thinking. A lot.

[@InternetLiJo]

Ugh... yes.

[@SogKnight]

Tell me about it...smh

[@zhxv2594]

We always think, like almost all the time we conscious

[@ghostskel7463]

It's true.

[@chemquests]

This is interesting because as an ENTP I think a lot about the future too but it’s always optimistic about the possibilities and potential. It’s like the present is always in need of repair & the solutions exist in a future state. Of course my Fe is focused on helping the tribe & receiving their gratitude so the present tends to offer disappointment

[@wondergirl2561]

Ni Fi is not about future things only. It could be any incident and Ni is processing how it could be different or better or how more harmful it could have been or "I should have known",,,, it's one of the worst situation for INTJ.

[@InternetLiJo]

Absolutely, I was just referencing it through this perspective for the sake of this video

[@thededicatedguild7442]

yeh that one sucks when you Ni got it wrong!

[@ilikefrenchtos5401]

I was going to ask about this because I definitely do loop things in the past over and over, especially when something negative happens and I have to deal with it again

[@RaidenShogun..]

Ni is not only seeing a mental image of what’s ahead, Ni can also want to find one solution to something and conclude it. Also, Ni can also want to find the hidden meaning of something that is underneath surface level.

[@ashtemplemusic]

Wow that was accurate

[@AntonyReed]

Great explanation. People on the outside don't understand the accuracy of a well-stocked Ni. When they say "you're thinking too much and you can't know what's going to happen, so don't worry so much", they don't actually see the obvious outcomes of these particular chess pieces on this particular board in this particular pattern.

[@InternetLiJo]

Yes!! Thanks for saying that Anthony. I hate to give Ni any more attention, and I know it's not always 100% correct, but dang... many times yes. It makes it very hard to ignore.

[@simrasheik4909]

I just hate it when people say that particular statement

[@ingang8817]

NiFi loop runs when Te fails to find a solution for the future that Ni sees. That's why the iNTJ depression seems hopeless, because it's actually hopeless in iNTJ's eyes. Sometimes iNTJ should learn to trust in the unknown, and believe that we could be wrong about the future we forecast (I think this is Ne function: see more possibilities and don't need to focus much on where these possibilities could go).

[@nv6274]

because you can't fix future, right? that's the reason why it seems hopeless because we can't fix future and we can't talk about this to the other people because they'll not understan going crazy over something that not happened yet. they'll ofcourse think it's ridiculous

[@Abcd-mq4yn]

I think i am suffering this from an year i think , as an ( 17 yr ) intj i dont want to be a doctor as it will give me no personal time and space 24 hrs and i am also not telling my parents , they invested huge cash into my studies and i am also suffering from burden of not disappointing them as they are sensitive types and it seems there would be no time for me to have my time for next 15 years , no hope for at least 13-15 years .

[@harvey4557]

@@user-pk7ld5yk7y I believe @ingang8817 means that you should trust in a positive outcome when unforeseen events present themselves. This could be for multiple reasons: you could improvise (Se/Ne) for example, or alternatively, get others to help you (Te/Fe).

[@timaf4458]

Yes!

[@cidadaoanonimo333]

In summary... we suffer in antecipation... and when the sh*it actually hits the vent... we are like "mhe... i already knew it was happening". Others might think we are cold, but in reallity, we`ve suffered everything, beforehand.

[@Harshasha1920]

Right!

[@MHBTNO]

A bad outcome rarely surprises me.

[@jasminehys3158]

This is SO accurate

[@lisas_online]

@@MHBTNOmight not be surprising but still have to process the outcome ♾️

[@Dibby47]

I'm an INTJ ,18 , This september, I felt really lost , confused and exhausted ,stuck in one of these loops. It was very overwhelming. I thought it was just me,but luckily not. Thanks for making this video.

[@zeynep6073]

I'm 17 and intj, I am feeling the same thing. Because of the pandemic I am always in my room, it's like a prison built by my depressive thoughts. The all reason was I wasn't productive enough at first but now I have others. Can't see myself happy in the future anymore. I feel entirely broken. I also feel like this situation is permament. I hope it's not real.

[@SankalpJain-vh8wn]

@@zeynep6073 Relatable lol(h8 to admit it). The actual probs r- 1. There is something obstructing us from solving a serious future prob(or a series if probs). 2. Since there r no idiots to blame(since we r alone and can create our own systems) in the pandemic, we blame ourselves, and Ig rightfully so.... Also, I'm 16. So, 18, 17, 16. I try to focus intensely on short-term goals and think harder to solve the probs in the future. U will prolly eventually get the solution and develop a plan. Prolly not, worth a try anyways ig.

[@blackthreads1821]

I can’t believe I just read a piece where someone wrote 4 commas in all 4 different ways 😂😂😂😂 - Fellow intj 😂😂😂😂

[@nikhilpemmaraju695]

Ohh, I hope you're fine by now but the same has happened to me around the time of lockdown I shut myself in my room and watched anime all the day and di nothing. Now I'm finally able to come out of it and I doubt I completely came out of it as I repeat the things that make me feel nice everyday without concerning about the external world

[@greenbean1ism]

Sometimes the Ni--Fi loop ends in a self-fulfilling prophecy... which has happened to me before as an INTJ.

[@goozmute3095]

Not my style but i'll share with you a real life story of a crazy Ni/Fi loop : As far as I can remember, as a child, my mother was dying of cancer and the doctors told me she was doomed. It took me into an insane Ni / Fi loop. She was supposed to live 1 year but she lived 10. I lived the majority of those childhood years in real fear, seeing my mother's death coming, every day, every night, helpless. The point is, what was difficult was not the actual death of my mother, but the uninterrupted projection of it. Ni/Fi was killing me, not the reality of the situation. If I had understood this at the time, I would have enjoyed these 10 years with her instead of being overwhelmed by the fear of incoming chaos... But ultimately this ordeal instilled in me a keen sense of priorities and greater awareness of my Fi, which I'm grateful now. It also proved to me that pain doesn't come from a situation but from the psychological experience we have of it, and now it's my job to help people understand it. (self typed FM Ni/Te BSPC, so probably an ESFP lmao)

[@InternetLiJo]

Thanks for sharing that experience. Help people understand something out of it >> big yes.

[@anderson126]

I don't have depression but I already had severe depression in my early teens. Since then I have been focusing a lot on self improvement. I always look at everything from academic improvement to emotional to cognitive improvement and relate it all together to find a pattern or something. To tell you the truth, I feel like I'm going crazy sometimes because I analyze everything all the time and that doesn't stop for a minute.

[@jokster2576]

Basically Ni doesn’t want to let something go but Fi is in pain and wants Ni to let it go ect...

[@biseragjurovska9868]

This might sound a bit far fetched but I think that's one reason INTJs in media can be stereotyped as villainous. If there a traumatic event that happens for an INTJ character then they relive it and reimagine it and it fills them with these serious vivid often negative emotions and each time they reimagine it it's just as vivid as before and I think that's one way to write an INTJ character gaining motivation from their negative emotions because there's no getting rid of them unless the INTJ let's go or does something to fix what that traumatic event did to them. Similarly, if an INTJ gets fixated on a certain future even when they learn it's impossible but they're too attached to it, a more immature INTJ might stubbornly go for it anyway. And all of this coupled with this calculated and planned nature that seems to be stereotypical for INTJs, contributes to the perfect motivations for a villainous characters. Like "I was bullied as a child and I keep reliving it and the only way to stop is to destroy this planet mwahaha" or "I want a world where there are no sports so no children are ever made fun of for liking sports ever again and no matter how unrealistic that is I will fight for that future cause I'm evil" are more stereotyping than anything than anything but if these INTJ qualities are taken into account and written in more properly there can be very fascinating INTJ villains.

[@saloni.sharma]

this is such a well put analysis. i couldn't stop but think about funny villains like Doofinshmertz and Gru on one hand - the typical immature ones, and then more intricate (fan favorite)villains like - Thanos (most recent marvel villains like Loki or Killmonger etc), and Kuvira (from legend of korra) with an end goal in mind that they think justifies the cause and is "the solution" to whatever they went through. they can almost convince you that they're right and to some extent they are, because they actually thought a lot about all aspects of whatever made them feel negative emotions and what is the universal solution to "solve" this trauma. absolutely loved your analogy.

[@stereotypespecialist]

The best villains are always the ones that believe that they're right.

[@jxc.]

I'm usually shy to comment but i found your videos really helpful. I'm an INTJ woman, I believe Ni-Fi. At first I hate being an INTJ because of this loop but I have discover the other tools (Te/Se). I'm now more grounded and connected to the world. You are doing an amazing work. Thanks for sharing your understanding.

[@edvinloba8754]

What do you mean you have discovered new tools? In what way have you used them? Did you find a way to overcome Ni-Fi loops by (Te/Se)? If so please explain us how? Thanks in advance

[@lisas_online]

Would love you to elaborate on this

[@alexhendry2120]

Sending lots of non physical affection 💕

[@danielpucher3367]

Not to get too "real" with Internet strangers, but I found out about three years ago that my wife and I can't have kids. That's probably the last time I can distinctly remember hating that my brain is wired for future planning and foresight. I'm in acceptance land now though, so if any bleedy hearts read this, don't get too bleedy about it.

[@biseragjurovska9868]

Sorry to hear that, yeah often times when I have my mind set on a future that's I feel is going to happen and then I find out it just can't I can get very frustrated with it but I also recognize I have to move on and accept it. Sometimes it sucks, sometimes it's easier but in general it's life, have a good one!

[@17x71]

Bruh, what, why. You're fish don't swim or gonna lead to baby with sickness? I guess if it was the former, you would've realized that that's not actually a prohibiting factor so I guess it's the latter. But bruh you can still just adopt

[@dodonggumiho183]

This is how I cope up with my fear of having to lose someone dear to me, like my family in the future. I want to feel the emotion at the moment, because I know that when it happens and I wasn't ready before it, I'd sunk deeply into the emotion. And I would have difficulties moving on.

[@mamu7976]

This video is pretty accurate describing the Ni:Fi loop. Can be a really bad idea for INTJs to make decisions, based on feelings alone. The Ni:Fi loop needs to be broken. Do not let two introverted functions go to war in your head, making irrational decisions and projections. The answer: Te Te Te Te (extraverted thinking) can break the loop by getting thoughts from the outside and amalgamating with Ni to course correct the Ni. To improve the decision making process and improve the accuracy of future projections. My Te stole the thoughts of an INFJ (Scott Morgan), which helped, see below: ''When there is a pain or a unresolved issue for the INTJ from a relationship... that Ni:Fi loop can be looping... an unconscious process or a distressing one, which can be conscious and painful and nothing gets resolved...They (INTJs) need to get out of that loop... either by talking to somebody to get what they are thinking out, or by having feedback from somebody else about whats going on. Bring the human element to the emotional problem. Ni:Fi loop... is most likely due to a relationship issue... There is a theory that woundings that we carry within the context of a relationship can only heal in the context of a relationship. If trust is damaged in a relationship, creating a wounding, no amount of going away and thinking about it will heal it. It will only be healed by trusting in a new relationship. Or at least working through the issues of trust with somebody else, to release it so that they (INTJs) can get out of the Ni:Fi loop and resolve it''.

[@InternetLiJo]

Yes Te is always what grounds us :)

[@biseragjurovska9868]

I completely agree with this. It's like when I recall a certain event and especially when I'm imagining and reimagining events whether from the past or in the future (almost never the present or the current moment), it's like they're so real and vivid and there for me. Sometimes right after I've had the smallest interaction I'll like reimagine it and just relive it in my head especially if it's one that's memorable for some reason like it made me happy or something. Similarly, I'll get stuck with a certain idea or future I want to happen and a kind of proto-plan for it but not a full on plan because I still don't have all the facts only to actually learn of said facts and realize that future can't happen which often frustrates me sense that's valuable mental energy I could have spent getting attached to something else lol. It can feel like a loop imagining it, getting attached, needing to detach and so on. I think I get like that especially when I think about the state of the world and I just imagine what it must be like for the worse off people in society and it makes me quite distraught but I realize I have to detach myself from it because I have to, like, stop being sad and start being productive lol.

[@soapmaker2263]

I had a long held Ni-Fi vision for the future. A very deep, important and personal vision. I didn’t even realize how attached I was to it until reality destroyed its possibly. It was like getting a part of my soul ripped away. The pain changed me forever. Still haunts me.

[@lairyfights]

As an INTJ diagnosed with bipolar disorder I have this 'theory' that my Ni-Fi loop is depression and Se loop is mania where I act more like an ESFP. I'd like to hear what other INTJs with bipolar disorder think about it but I haven't met any yet :(

[@rae.raee1]

i'm intj diagnosed with bipolar too, and now i'm in crazy depressive state and i'm really suicidal rn, and all i do is confused and hurt people i love, but like they don't understand, i really don't know what to do

[@quintuplebanned4267]

Wow, this is really interesting. When did you determine your type? Was it after your diagnosis? I can imagine it being really difficult in the throws of any mental health issue, as I have dealt with myself.

[@rae.raee1]

@@quintuplebanned4267 before i got diagnosed

[@lairyfights]

@@rae.raee1 I'm under medication so I go back and forth from being depressed to 'normal' and sometimes suicidal too. I don't know if it will work for you but I started journaling recently because I'm not comfortable sharing my feelings and vulnerability with people. I write all my thoughts down and it helped me alot. Reaching out for help must be really hard for you as an INTJ. And other people think we are fine because we don't express our emotions much. I believe you can finally find a coping mechanism that works for you after trying out many. Please hang in there , remember that this state is temporary. Love ❤️

[@lairyfights]

@@quintuplebanned4267 I was typed after my diagnosis! I'm relatively new to mbti so I took the 16personalities at first and I got INFP but it didn't sound like me at all so I took it again later and got INTJ. It seemed to be correct so I researched more about the types and learned about cognitive functions to make sure I'm typed right. Yes my illness is very difficult to manage and it affects my ability to handle stess very badly :( when things don't turn out the way I planned I become anxious and hopeless and unable to function.

[@ginalienn1112]

Wow. This is is so helpful for me. I find myself having mood swings of depression and contentment all the time. This may explain why. I do find myself getting sad and fearful of things that haven’t happened yet.

[@StillGamingTM]

What if the loop doesn’t shorten day by day? This tends to happen for problems deemed “unsolvable”. How to stop it? Even ordinary “mindfulness” only helps while in the moment. Inevitably you get pulled back into the loop because it’s our default way of being

[@InternetLiJo]

What usually helps is to integrate the Te external. This would require doing something for someone else, being helpful to them, even when it's the last thing your Fi wants to do.

[@Plinko99]

I was caught in it just before watching this video. Here's a trick that's really helped me. Challenge this Ni Fi rumination, which is your mind asking "what if it all goes wrong?" by asking the question "what if everything goes right?" Then force yourself to spend a few moments thinking about what the best case scenario could be and how to help bring it about. This has worked wonders for me.

[@50shadesofcerakote]

when you use your stubbornness to work for you, not against you. haha

[@marishaten7399]

I relate to this so hard. I wish I knew earlier that I am an INTJ. My life would have made so much more sense.

[@arianeespedido5634]

My anxiety attacts when I think about how I deal with my future and i don't finished my projects on time..

[@ArianaReflects]

OMG IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS! People always talk about the INFJ Ni-Ti loop but now THIS is what we need to consider for INTJs!👍

[@zhxv2594]

I love how you say "most of the time" instead of "always"

[@InternetLiJo]

Haha nothing is absolute.

[@zhxv2594]

@@InternetLiJo same goes for me

[@WolfgangTV]

I always thought that I was an INFP, because of my feeling of not being able to fit in the world, connect with reality and be hopeful. Your video helped me understand that I am actually INTJ. I cannot act in the present because of my fear and sadness for the future, and not because of my past. I just ignore my Te most of the time. I thought I was an INFP because people thought I was "lovable" or even "cute" and thought that INTJs were cold, unsentimental people etc. Thanks for the video!! (I am Brazilian and translated on google translator, so possibly I made some grammar mistakes in English, but anyways)

[@user-ef7km7lv7b]

E se vc for infj em loop? Já pensou nisso?

[@nigt0wl341]

I've come across a useful theory in regards to this. These moment's of reliving past, or future is a survival mechanism, say you come across a tiger in the jungle - you survive - you relive it until you come up with a solution to avoid being eaten next time. Once this realization is available - solutions can be found in a more directed manner.

[@Cindare]

This is a tremendously important video. Your insight on the Ni-Fi Loop has placed a great deal of perspective on an issue that has required months of therapy for me to resolve. You are doing God’s work, LiJo. Thank you.

[@Avalanche_Mudder04]

This helped me greatly, thank you. I used to find confidence in running the simulations, which normally helped me prepare. When I had too much negative emotion around a task: defaulting to run the simulation lead to panic attacks. I should have found my confidence in my ability to adapt.

[@genius.heart.]

INTJ Ni-Fi loop is running a simulation for future feelings, INFP Fi-Si loop is embodying the emotion...I feel it oozing from every pore

[@isabellevoyer1820]

Wow! This is so interesting! I'm a curious ISFP watching your videos and this is basically how I've experienced this loop as well. I get stuck on a super negative hypothetical outcome/event and it feels like I'm in the deepest darkest pit of all the negative emotions in the world combined. Fortunately it doesn't happen too often for me, if someone were to stay stuck in that loop I can definitely imagine it would become a depression at this point.

[@N0B0DY_SP3C14L]

This is on point. Two other things worth mentioning are, unfortunately many of these situations we are haz sad over do come to pass, much as we simulate them, and by the time they do, we have already processed the outcome, so we may seem cold in the moment.

[@dayDreamGirl81]

I used to be like this until my twenties. I was reliving the same situation over and over again- mostly traumatic or when I was in love I could be in this loop for months, feeling all these strong emotions. It was really hard, but I made a conscious decision to not dwell on the past, or being just in the future, but to give a present moment a chance. It is much better now :).

[@luisdeharo8240]

Such an INTJ! - I can sense your thoughts being way faster than you can articulate with words in real-time.

[@peon17]

I needed this so much. I've been caught in a loop recently (details important), but I commented to a friend about how I'm worried about the future and that I just need to stop thinking about it. Hearing someone else say the same thing, in not exactly the same words, really shines light on it. And I need to remember the advice to use Te (and maybe Se) to break out of this internal loop.

[@priscillaroy8147]

There is an advantage to this loop, it either takes away the sting of it when it actually happens or makes us think of alternatives to resolve it making the future proactively better in one way or the other.

[@firedtradesman]

Been waiting for this one. Thank you in advance for addressing it.

[@jwil7138]

Thank you! A video I didn't realize I needed. I'm in a bit of a loop right now actually. Breaking down a personal situation. I've played the scene a dozen times today. It's really nice to know that this is just a thing people like us do. It's not just me, in an isolated incident, exhausting myself for nothing 😅

[@nihonmaksudur7662]

In ni-fi loop intjs become obsessed with identity and starts taking everything personally

[@somber087]

holy.. this is so accurate. I hope we all get better

[@evelyn1558]

I was convinced I was gonna fail my undergrad thesis whether or not I write it till the finish. I was in this crazy loop and fell into the worst anxiety and depression for 4 months. FOUR MONTHS.... I was really convinced bc of all the datas i have collected about my progress that were just pointing toward the fact that I really was gonna fail... But thank goodness, managed to pull through at the end and score a B. Not that good but it was better than what my NiFi scenario was predicting. This video is spot on.

[@Sheamuscz]

This may sound strange, but as an ISFP with an INTJ older brother, our loops (Fi-Ni in my case and Ni-Fi in his case) have quite helped us bond due to their similarity.

[@nofrillstarot9372]

Thanks for putting this in words. I was betrayed badly and still find myself running that simulation a year later to "avoid" being betrayed again. Fact is, it is only making things harder for people around me and not circumventing future "bad stuff" from happening. So what if I was "right" that I am going to be betrayed? Being "right" about such things is not going to make it hurt less. It would make more sense assuming good intentions until proven otherwise, so at least if I'm betrayed, I know I did not have a hand in fulfilling any negative prophecies in my head.

[@timothypitts6747]

Thank you for helping us understand ourselves.

[@InternetLiJo]

Thank you!

[@anneh851]

I am in a depressive loop regarding my boyfriend, due to some behaviors of his I find counterproductive and downright immature......I rehearse in my head and it all ends badly, but I am trying not for that but to find new ways to deal more productively. It needs to stop soon as we are both in our mid-late 60s and have no time for this nonsense. Thank you, Lindsey, for explaining this loop and the labels. Understanding lingo/terminology is a vital key to getting started.

[@WittyOne]

Here is a thought. When dealing with grief from a traumatic event, you don't want to acknowledge Fi, so you bombard yourself with Te to drown out Fi, but Ni gets in the way and says you need to deal with this, more Te to drown that out again, you think you have dealt with it a few times, but every few months it comes back again and it's easy to spend weeks stuck in a Fi, Te distraction Ni loop. Wash, rinse and repeat. When shit gets really painfull it's an easy trap to fall into

[@AndeAndrea]

Depression is life. Also yes you're speaking on rumination. I have mentioned being in pro-longed NiFi loops in a procrastination video I did, speaking on the causes of procrastination. I believe trauma & loss can cause NiFi loops in addition to just being prone to having it more with SC first, or double activated(like mine). Sometimes huge things can come from NiFi loops tho, so there can be a method to the madness so to speak.

[@AndeAndrea]

@@linyenchin6773 last name got changed to Blaine this year :)

[@kreole7376]

As an ISTJ I relate to the loop but in a different spectrum. We tend to get stuck in situations that have already happened and obviously cannot do anything about, recalling them over and over which in turn makes as see the future as dark and bleak because we can't see how things can possibly get better due to past experiences, in other terms the Ne grip, fear of the inevitable and contemplating the alternate scenarios of things turning out for the worst. I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety so I know this too well. One thing that helps me alot is my Te, it slams anything that isn't of significant importance to me and of course the productivity that comes with it is a good boost as well.

[@captainfrosty31]

Ive been reading abit about Quantum physics recently and was thinking perhaps going over what might happen, makes it happen and so you think you correctly thought ahead about what might happen, settled on a narrative, concluded a way it will go. What you actually did was create the reality in which it does happen. 🤔 Becoming a mum young had me stuck in that loop for all of my 20s more or less. The constant forward thinking about what might happen to this child. What if she died, got hurt, upset etc Living those feeling to come to terms with it was horrendous. I learned that it didn't matter how much I thought about something bad happening, it didn't make it any easier to cope with when it did actually happen. It was the same. Just how I imagined, just as painful, just as dark and just as weakened by time as anything else. Love, hate, anger, wonderment, loss etc all feelings that weaken in intensity with time. We're not supposed to hold onto these things but to experience them, learn and move forward. Just my two cents anyway. Lovely video as ever.

[@dr.strangelove9815]

"What you actually did was create the reality in which it does happen." Exactly, makes one wonder if "positive affirmations" actually work?

[@kevinkim9929]

Even your facial expression is so INTJ lol

[@jamesspartin117]

So fun simulating where the path of actions you see will ultimately end up only to become disappointed in the state of the world. No but if this is you eventualy you will get used to it a bit and get good at avoiding the problems directly (avoiding as in making sure to dodge bullets that could ruin your life not pretend they dont exist) so its not really that bad :). Rising above is key.

[@dogdonut3]

I have tried many times to explain to friends or family why it appears like I get over loss or move on from difficult circumstances quickly. It's not that I don't feel what they are feeling, it's that I already felt it... Pretty much all at once in one big block. Pro: it can allow me to help others through whatever the bad situation is without falling apart emotionally. Con: Sometimes I rely too heavily on the presumed perfection of my simulation. The real life experiences sometimes hold subtlety that I missed. Fearing that chaos I can then bury my feelings with "I'm ok". Ultimately that's unhealthy for me.

[@user-ys8ew2rd4p]

I find the NiFi loop a double edged sword, extrapolating despair in perpetuity yet also a valuable learning, pivot and springboard to improve. In my case, exploring and pinpointing the negative drivers of Fi with Te helped me to surface valid, real and recurring failures (behaviours) which became a strategic plan (Ni) to fix. When trapped in the loop, Te indulged and colluded in Fi's fears, self sabotage and defensive protection of me, procrastinating and playing it safe to avoid rejection. Externalising Fi stressors also helped reassert an effective Ni/Te.

[@cailinekeirsteaddesigns]

Ya so being a lost potential or failure is probably my biggest fear and motivator…thinking abt it in loops makes me inexplicably depressed

[@Hanh-jm6cp]

I think its very hard, because my partner does not understand why i “choose” to put myself through a hypothetical which may not even happen, and why i “choose” to be unhappy. Its even more frustrating, that when i finally show express my innermost feelings and fears, they are not met with openness, patience, or kindness. So each time i want to open up, i feel either a sense of dread or hurt. Its quite isolating, and i find myself wanting to open up less and less. Then when i become aware of this, i am even more hurt and frustrated and isolated. Its quite vicious.

[@BuizelCream]

I feel you a lot. When I express my INTJ concerns to my friends, it feels alien to them, so they either change the deep conversation because it feels weird, or realistically they just aren't mentally and emotionally capable enough to handle the deepness of the hypothetical situation and couldn't say anything beneficial or constructive to the topic that we crave (especially during the moment). It's so easy to give into the urges of wanting to isolate even more, but as humans, it's counterproductive, so we instinctively have to reach out, and this vicious cycle remains.

[@Milsukix3]

@@BuizelCream Yes exactly! I also feel misunderstood because I Need to talk to people about it but people make me feel worse. They would say - Oh but it didnt happen therefore no need to worry! Omg Yes I have to worry. Like people really perceive it as we are philosophical about something but it’s just thinking over and over again something. What I really would like other people to do is to talk me through different scenarios so I can notice them but most of their reactions are - no need to worry it didn’t happen, it’s not so much big of a deal

[@BuizelCream]

@@Milsukix3 Yes. Those "stereotypical" answers that implicates gaslighting can also make me enraged especially when I need their support the most 😅 Although, as I have learned, it's kind of a sign where we have to solve our own situations that only us can understand because it's our own load. Since not all of our friends can handle the complexities of each of our problems, we have to spare them from this (cause they have their own problems to deal with, and adding onto it only complicates things).

[@AnnaSoll99]

I went through a period of depression from late 2020 to mid 2021 and it was all mostly related to things that other people didn't understand because they hadn't happened yet. I was legit imagining how a friendship of 8 years was breaking up right in front of my eyes yet the other person had no idea because it hadn't happened yet. A year later this person is sadly not in my life anymore, but I cut them off for the right reason. By the end, I had already felt like it was gone, because of the process of relieving it for MONTHS. Was very heartbreaking, we were extremely close.

[@dr.strangelove9815]

I've been stuck in a Ni-Fi loop for ages, it's awful. INTJs in the right situation can easily not become trapped in the loop, but if in a perpetually stressful environment, the Ni-Fi loop is inevitable. The NI-Fi loop can best be described as a veneer of melancholy that saturates ideas, disrupting focus and causing quite a bit of doubt, in a sense that meaning has to be found to solve a problem (the worst part is, the "meaning" is subjective, so you sort of shotgun for solutions that may not work). I can't wait to break the Ni-Fi loop.

[@moiissnoneofyourbusiness8957]

I’m sorry you’re going through that. I hope you break it!

[@jamesw8132]

My wife is an INTJ, I’m an INFP so feel this… it’s good to able to help her work through and when required call out the bullshit… I’m generally a little shut out when my INTJ is on task so stay out of the way, but at the right time feel comfortable unleashing my Fi-SI struggles.

[@musickel3718]

I can't even get over how much I relate to your videos about intjs. It's bringing attention to things that have happened for years and I've never even thought twice about (like this looping simulation...oh my gosh!!)

[@InternetLiJo]

Glad you connect with the concepts I teach here :)

[@jameseetseggs5798]

Ive always found my greatest strength to be my greatest weakness. Relatable and Insightful video, Thankyou.

[@blackdogracing]

I agree that emotions tend to stay middle of the road, not easy to push me off center and can be good in so much as if everyone else is going crazy you keep your wits about you. However, playing a loop about the future be it good or bad can if looped enough times begin to desensitize that emotion. When that future event happens it can appear to others that you have a flat affect (although is close to middle of the road). That lack of a large swing in emotion can make others think you didn’t like your surprise party or you didn’t care that someone died.

[@krisa8969]

I like how you explain things, I relate to a lot of what you say, but slightly differently. I'm an INFJ, and I'm more focused on Ni and Ti. When you talk about Fi, I can switch it out for Ti and see the similarities. Its definitely interesting seeing the resemblances! :)

[@ashtemplemusic]

Been in this for a full year, beginning was fucking agony, 24 hours a day looping and bad dreams at night. Recently got to the other side somewhat. I discovered talking into a camera about the issue and then watching it back a few days later helped me process

[@v3g499]

Wow this sent a shiver down my spine

[@theChaseKern]

Wow... I've been trying to figure out how to put this into words for so long. And no one ever seems to understand what I mean by simulations and how vivid and emotionally deep they can be. But if the simulation is focused on something positive, it becomes this amazing visualization tool that really acts as an accelerant to accomplishing goals with resilience.

[@pranjalruhela1103]

I've been in this loop for really long....days.... weeks....months.... years.....😮‍💨

[@amyharrison8282]

This makes so much sense. Sounds like I was in a similar loop at the start of this year.

[@nedwhitney4123]

Ha too relatable, I was keeping a massive secret from my mum for a long period of time through my teens and running through the scenario where she found out about it was pretty crippling. In a similar situation now where I need to tell her something soon and I know it won't go well, can't stop myself from planning the conversation and possible aftermaths until it happens in a couple weeks. Becomes extremely consuming and almost impossible to get away from seeing as it's all in your own head.

[@InternetLiJo]

Yeah it's not easy, that's for sure.

[@nedwhitney4123]

@@InternetLiJo if it's taught me one thing it's the importance of having a friend to vocalise all those internal thoughts to, it massively helps to get it out of your head and have a different perspective chime in to give an alternative outlook

[@elmoomle4565]

Whether it's past, present, or future...those 'patterns' never disappear.

[@blacklake13]

I believe I've experienced a more lasting version of this. When a startup I was involved with failed, I found myself in an odd mode in which I felt fairly unanxious but was also unwilling to do anything productive with my time. I only wanted to play games (very sensory ones, like simulators) or watch TV. Sounds like typical unemployment junk, but it just wasn't like me, and it lasted for months without fading. I hadn't previously heard of the Ni-Fi loop, and came across one person's on-line analysis which purported that when an INTJ in particular comes to believe that *reason itself has failed* (i.e., evidence we've collected via Te seems to point in a compelling way in that direction), we can arrive at the conclusion (via Ni) that to function in the world one must be irrational, which violates our most fundamental values (Fi) - i.e., that to succeed we must be immoral, or at least think and behave in ways that are inherently alien to us, which is obviously untenable. Te's sending such seemingly terrifying data to Ni and Fi motivates us to just *abandon* Te, and flee to our inferior Se function for comfort. Many INTJ's in this state might drink heavily, or engage in irresponsible sexual encounters - very atypical behavior (fortunately, my personal Se refuges are relatively lame and safe...). The only solution I found suggested on-line is that the INTJ simply has to begin some sort of project that involves significant problem-solving. I did this (started a career-relevant project that required learning a new software package) with very little enthusiasm, but within a couple of weeks found myself compelled to devote almost all my free time to it, as a normal INTJ would. Se escapist time retreated back to an hour or two at the end of the day (at most), and Te was allowed back into the loop to balance out Ni ans Fi's inner focus with some more objective perspective (by being given an opportunity to prove that reason *does* still work). Anyway, this is clearly just an anecdote, but I do think it's interesting that, upon learning of this perspective on the Ni-Fi loop, it did seem I was able to use the information to pull myself out of a prolonged stall.

[@anneperkins85]

I am experiencing this right now! It feels like reason itself has failed and so I let Se have the reins. One activity that gives me a break from this depressive state is decluttering and organizing my family's homes. I saw it as bringing order to chaos in the physical world felt productive since I couldn't do it to my emotional world. But this activity requires problem solving that spans a person's past behavior (buying clutter) to their present state of mind (why they keep clutter) to their future ability to maintain the organization systems. So, I can see how using problem solving activities to prove reason is still king puts my emotions at ease.

[@jihadallam4862]

LiJo thank you. It was so validating to share how you just noticed the loop recently. It seems a natural process that sometimes just get overwhelming.

[@Angel-gb9gi]

I am infj and everyday when I leave work and get in my truck I start to reflect to everything that was said and what I saw. It's like I am proof reading my day check for things I missed or didn't get to evaluate because of time. I am looking for anything that seems off or needs looking at from all angels to see if everything is okay. As I am driving I am replaying my day in my head and I can't stop till I am forced to think on something else. I am paranoid about getting in trouble and I am always looking for hidden motives. I want to leave my job and not think about it. My mind drives me crazy. It's always thinking about negative things...I am so wore out just from my over active mind.

[@artifex707]

I had this nifi loop for like 5 mounts after I realised something. It was horrible. I just left the reality for this all time 😢 But now I understand why and i’m going to help myself get back to the preset world

[@Diaming787]

When something doesn't go as planned, I overproject into the future and use my Fi to justify that vision. It does get depressing, especially when I project into the end-of-universe future, question the meaning due to existential crisis. What I learned to cope from is just live life one day at a time, and create meaning from it.

[@OnLifeandLove]

My function stack is closest to ENTJ, I can relate to this too. Although I'd say when Fi takes the reins, my prediction may not be that accurate from an observer's standpoint. Especially if the Ni-Fi loop concerns people. The things/events predictions are usually more accurate.

[@marcoa.gaiotto6195]

Seems accurate. My problem is: I am kicking an addiction. The NiFi loop happens because every time I was getting closer to kick the addiction for good, I relapsed (usually making excuses for not dealing with the anxiety and sadness that the loop brings, and using the drug as a relief). I believe the loop happens because the relapse have happened so many times, that now I automatically start simulating that ending. But one thing I have been telling myself is that I HAVE to feel what this momment brings me and NOT RUN. So basicly, I have to pass through the loop, and break the cycle. Change the ending.

[@FushigiMigi]

This the reason why we seem robotic because there isn’t much that surprises us. We have already lived it in our heads at least once.

[@xderen_xd]

Jah bless, uff thank you know I understand why I was so stressed almost depressed thank you thank you. We should visualize more futures at least two

[@janholasek324]

I just rewatched this 3 times in a row trying to understand my current situation. I feel like I have no motivation to do anything.

[@FC-BS]

I'm an intj but I rarely experience depression. I do however worry about the future a lot. Not enough for it to cause me stress though

[@syahrulshiddiq9733]

So INTJ depressed about the future by Ni-Fi loop, while INFP depressed about the past by Fi-Si loop

[@loriturner609]

Your description here is right on... it’s the difference between my INFP husband and I, and we find it hard to relate to each other’s pain.

[@syahrulshiddiq9733]

@@loriturner609 but we can also take it positively, since you can also take it like this: not being able to relate to each other's pain may mean that your husband has answer of what to do towards your problem and you have answer of what to do towards his problem.

[@syahrulshiddiq9733]

@joanna odziemczyk depression is essentially _having problem related to the thought of both the future and the past._ But when it comes to personality type, INTJs mostly struggle with paranoia of what-if cases they are especially bad when it comes to dealing with possible betrayal - loyalty for them is very precious, while INFPs mostly struggle with loyalty to a fault so they would stuck living _in the past_ or getting stuck in the comfort zone, not living in the present

[@sjgbrighton]

I'm so glad I discovered this channel. I do this all the time. Get depressed knowing something will happen, and imagining precisely how. I also went to a party/meal yesterday. Luckily most of the women were engineers so I didn't feel too nerdy! Some of them even left before me.

[@whitelesbianrapper]

Thank you. This also results from a lack of information on the situation as well

[@Ngwaaaron]

Had a bad day today. This video helps me, an INTJ, to understand myself. Thanks, LiJo.

[@nv6274]

sometimes i get into the loop with jusy one second thinking. I don't even know hwere is it coming but it comes and it doesn't go easily. I have a fear about losing my loved ones to death and when i start to think about it, i just know that it's over for me. I can't help to cry over the scenerios my head, my ni-fi made for future-- the time that hasn't come yet. it drives me insane. thinking about the things might happen is just pure trigger of ni-fi loop

[@genopsych]

Nice job! Clear, humble, and vulnerable. One of the best process descriptions I have heard. Brava!

[@andreagreenwood93]

Thanks for the Ni-Fi loop video, it doesn't get discussed enough. It sucks to get SO worked up over things that haven't happened yet. I've experienced it more relating to anger than depression. I don't vividly relive past scenarios too much but this sort of "pre-living" a scenario, yes, and so vividly. Usually I just want to get it over with, the waiting is the worst, it will ruin days or sometimes weeks, with me just being chronically angry as I pre-play it. I think there's even more to the Ni-Fi function loop too. I don't know how much other INTJs experience this, but sometimes if I get upset about something trivial, I feel like I can't possibly be SO upset about it alone because that would be *irrational* . So my brain goes to work coming up with a more elaborate analysis (in a very Ni way) of everything that's objectively "wrong" and doesn't live up to the ideal of how things should be, creating a much bigger picture scenario to be unhappy about. Then obviously I have MORE to be upset about, which loops back to Fi.

[@pixsagmoonbluntsisters9928]

Entj and I can relate with my Intj friends, that they hate it whenever someone WRONGLY ACCUSES THEM AS DEPRESSED, such a *BIG INSULT* for us, there are Fi types of people I had encountered that seemed to force THEIR OWN FACTS that I am depressed WHEN I AM NOT, I EVEN TOLD AND EXPLAINED THEM THAT I AM NOT A DEPRESSIVE TYPE OF PERSON ALMOST LIKE A HUNDRED AND COUNTLESS TIMES, I EVEN SHOWED THEM ABOUT MBTI TYPES AND SHOWED THEM MY RESULTS, they took theirs I was right A LOT OF THEM WERE Fis MOSTLY *SF*s BUT THEY STILL KEPT ON ASSUMING THAT I HAVE TO BE DEPRESSED AND THAT I SHOULD TELL THEM WHAT'S WRONG,UNTIL MY ANGER BURST OUT ON THEM AND FINALLY THEY STARTED TAKING BACK THEIR OWN MIND OF SH!!!TS THEY ARE THROWING AT ME. This is why, once I figure out that someone's an Fi types (MOSTLY IN A CLASHING WAY) I distant myself from them and RAN! Than endup injuring them emotionally again, because of their FALSE THOUGHTS ABOUT ME.

[@splintercelloo7]

To visibly and emotionally experience the loss of a loved one before they're even gone then claim you promise you're not planning their death.

[@MrRockyVega]

Your thoughts hold more power than you may realize. If things are always playing out as you imagine, it's likely because of the immense energy and vibrations you're putting out into the universe beforehand.

[@Hobart32]

Great video. I always think of Ni-Fi looping as watching a movie in the amphitheater of my mind. I’ll watch over and over again from different seats/angles trying to figure out what I missed. In doing that, you experience the same negative emotions (for example: a break up) over and over again as you live and process through that internal movie/experience. You are absolutely correct that you start to focus on it less and less. I find engaging your Se - particularly through sensory activities like working out - is actually the perfect way to combat the Ni amphitheater and break the loop.

[@HSharpknifeedge]

True, indeed, and sometimes it is very painful!

[@hasgoodles7807]

Dear God, you poor things. How can I help? This loop is heartbreaking. You guys can seem so earnest, that it just melts me. Do you have any suggestions for an INFJ and an INTJ who happen to experience their loops at the same time? Who can stop the trainwreck? Is one type better equipped to slam on the brakes when this occurs between these two types? So they don’t spiral into crazy town?

[@bellastella5806]

Hi LiJo, I am an Infj women, and in my case my loop is very simulare or almost the same, it's difficult coming out of an loop, but when there's something new and interesting to me to do for what I must prepare my self also mentally, that's makes that I get out of the loop. Becouse my thoughts are now focused to something interesting, important and new. 😊. I want to let you know that I love the intj personality SO MUCH! It's a fascinating to me! Maybe because we are simulare types 😉. I have a " Friend" she is an Intj type, I love her! Also if she is very mysterious many times. For example, she do not call me or write me a message, but ever only i🤔😅 but anyhow I can not stop like and love her. She is special for me ☺️. Thank you LiJo. 💕

[@bakamono2630]

This was the Times back then where I used to walked straight home from school at night to think. It was usually an hour and a half walk 6:30PM to 8:00PM 🤔 My parents would be worried and scold me if they knew about it 👀👀👀

[@BuizelCream]

You're like me. The student "hikers". Even I walked straight to school from home. Either way to do a lot of thinking.

[@ParulsPalate]

Like Itachi’s genjutsu 😒 Thank you LiJo. I’m stuck in this loop apparently because my dog is lost and my family thinks I’m overreacting. It’s difficult to break out of it.

[@jrl5535]

Now I better understand the mental state of my brother when he thinks about the bullying he suffered in the past.

[@twanettestrauss2274]

Wow, I never knew there were others doing this. I was looping for 14 years over the day my father would pass (he was ill for 14 years before he passed). I was stuck. When he finally passed, I was so use to dealing with that day, I kind of felt like finally I am free 😳 My 2 year grief period was past tense looping - if that makes sens. Thank you for sharing this. Never could understand why I did that. Makes sense now.