INTP vs. INTJ: Different Logics

PAPERBACK AND EBOOK OF THE INFINITE SOUL: tinyurl.com/56...
* My book on the INFJ, 'The Ecstatic Soul', is available here:
US: amz.run/4uCV
Canada: amz.run/4tk0
UK: amz.run/4tk4
Australia: amz.run/4v2E
France: amz.run/4tk5
Germany: amz.run/4tk6
Netherlands: amz.run/4v2D
Spain: amz.run/4tk7
Italy: amz.run/4tk8
India: amz.run/4v2B
Brazil: amz.run/4v2I
Mexico: amz.run/4v2K
Japan: amz.run/4tk9
** Support me on Patreon: / renaudcontini
*** My new novel 'The Infinite Castle' is available here:
US: amz.run/5q7p
Canada: amz.run/5q7q
UK: amz.run/5q7s
Australia: amz.run/5q7w
France: amz.run/5q7u
Germany: amz.run/5q7v
Netherlands: amz.run/5q7x
Spain: amz.run/5q7y
Italy: amz.run/5q80
India: amz.run/5q82
Brazil: amz.run/5q86
Mexico: amz.run/5q84
Japan: amz.run/5q81
**** My debut novel 'The Interview', is available here:
US: amzn.to/2HN0uJY
Canada: amzn.to/3kNnoih
UK: amzn.to/381B3ic
Australia: amz.run/4v2P
France: amzn.to/382AvsG
Germany: amzn.to/3kM5tsA
Netherlands: amz.run/4v2Q
Spain: amzn.to/3kOuJ1l
Italy: amzn.to/3enJuWw
India: amz.run/4v2L
Brazil: amz.run/4v2M
Mexico: amz.run/4v2O
Japan: amzn.to/382Azsq
Please hit a like if you enjoyed this video and consider subscribing for more content ;-)

[@mamu7976]

The line analogy sorts of makes sense. INTJs need limited logical data/facts to make decisions. Introverted intuition will fill in the gaps and direct learning towards relevant goals. If decisions are very important, INTJs will be forced to go into their shadow functions and use Ti. Actually, INTJs may be surprisingly strong in Ti, but they don't like using this function.

[@RensRoom]

Thanks, it’s actually quite difficult to illustrate Ni (especially NiTe) with an analogy.

[@HillyHonka]

I think you are spot on with Ti. INTPs use a lot of subjective reasoning before they come to any conclusion of objective data. Sometimes I find myself questioning the definitions of terms that have been generally accepted by society because those definitions contradict the definitions of the individual prefixes and suffixes of those terms once you break them down independently.

[@PowerRedBullTypology]

Renaud, I think you're pretty much spot on here! At least for the INTP part. When the INTP stops interacting with the external world, the internal system just becomes more ordered in a concrete manner, but does not improve in a more abstract manner. The best for Ne types is to externalize their thoughts (which I think they naturally tend to do by talking) in order to keep perceiving them in an abstract manner with Ne. When things are externalized, Ne will notice the possible patterns and Ti will want to slice it into pieces again. Then it's internalized in a mechanical Si manner and put into a folder. This needs to be repeated in order to see new patterns and slice them into smaller pieces. Ne makes it grow and Ti cuts away and Si orders it. At least that's how I perceive them to work. I notice it in myself that when I externalize things, I progress much faster in gaining insights than if I think keep thinking about it in my head. If I just keep thinking about it, then everything is sorted in a very mechanical sense like maps on a computer, but the amount of new internal cross links are not that much increasing as rapidly. While sleeping and such things help for Ni types, I perceive it to be one of the most stagnating things for Ne types. We need to express like talk, brainstorm, write down, be creative in other manners in order to progress. Activity helps us to better understand, not passivity. Writing comments for me on you tube also helps me sorting my own thoughts by externalizing them. It forces me to order the expansion of the Ne pattern recognition thing. Ne seems like it can easily become so heavy on our working memory that it stops fitting inside our working memory. By externalizing it, it will become sorted and thus less taxing on the working memory and thus empties the brain.

[@snudgegalbraith3447]

You nailed it. You nailed it so good it called you daddy.

[@PowerRedBullTypology]

@@snudgegalbraith3447 Who me, or you mean Ren?

[@snudgegalbraith3447]

Both of you

[@snudgegalbraith3447]

If i want to understand something i get a bold sharpie and some paper and begin talking to myself and drawing wierd diagrams with arrows and writing stuff. The thing im trying to understand starts to get clearer and clearer.

[@PowerRedBullTypology]

@@snudgegalbraith3447 Yes, it works like that for me too. I think with Ne you can "see", relatively sharply, but the expense is that the distance you can see is not that far. So you constantly need to move in order to see the next thing. You can only move forwards, if you're created/defined the area you're standing on first. Things most likely fall into place in front of our feet if once we keep moving forward. However, since we are often not aware of this, we might stop too early or do not even start moving, because we do not know where the destination is exactly. The key is to trust that this process will always take place and trust that the right steps will eventually guide you to the right destination. Types with high Ni on the other hand do see far, but more foggy and can not see the details we can see in front of them. However, they have to use their Se to deal with these things in real time when they arrive. I also noticed that if you ask a type with high Ne where they want to go, they might say they do not know or have a clear preference. However, if you propose places to go, they will often be far more opinionated than they first appeared. Once it gets closer, Ne will know what to do.

[@mbtisocialclub]

As an INTJ I can use Introverted thinking, although I don’t enjoy using it much. I imagine INFJs can also use Fi EDIT: Te wants everyone’s thoughts, that’s why I always look at reviews before I buy something, watch movie, etc. Then I’ll come to an Ni conclusion and use Fi to decide if I want it. I imagine that using Ti, will be a gateway to Fe, since they are connected, but the Fe blind spot and Si demon simply has no interest in these functions.

[@RensRoom]

It’s interesting because I personally would rarely look at reviews before buying something. It might not be a wise idea, but I usually go with my intuition.

[@RensRoom]

I’ve no doubt INTJs can use Ti, but on top of being not ‘drawn’ to it, I suspect they wouldn’t be able to sustain it effectively over long stretches of time.

[@mbtisocialclub]

Renaud Contini yeah that’s true. I always did wonder how Te blindspot manifested in IXFJs. Fe blindspot sucks, but Te blindspot is not wanting to think about things outside of yourself from real world? Not sure. BTW INFJs are my favorite type. The eyes of the INFJ is almost like there is innocence or purity in your spirit. Low Fi and Se is why ppl think INTJs are Strange, because we Te the intuition we receive through se sensations being interpreted through Fi. Meaning, by watching,hearing interacting with INFJs I keep getting positive feelings, this impression is easily fleeting so the recurring feeling (months) is something I try to explain through Ni-Te. my Ni-Te tells me I can feel the energy that emanates from INFJs, it’s a different comforting/uncanny vibe. That is hard to explain so I have to use objective words and prose. P.S I’ve been noticing some patterns of INFJs in fiction like SDS, Hannibal, the sopranos. And it’s just so interesting to see. It’s refreshing to see.

[@PowerRedBullTypology]

If Te wants everyone's thoughts, then what system of organization does it use to value all these different thoughts?

[@mbtisocialclub]

P O W E R - R E D - B U L L well I’m not really sure how to answer that. My Te isn’t great, I’m most likely an Ni-Fi jumper. Edit: My Te is kinda lazy, systemizing is based on priority and what works as in good enough

[@MatrixManagement2]

Great video! You really dug deep into the differences! I'm a INTJ and my business partner is an INTP and we work so well together. I develop the new systems of thought, explain them to her and then she has her solid structure and she can easily add data to it and expand on it. I can go onto building new solids for her. I tend to focus more on the outliers - they are the data that will lead me to new systems of thought. Since I'm building new paradigms, systems, mental models, I'm not that interested in the existing ones.

[@johnknight9150]

I'm an INTJ with an INTP twin brother. In terms of gathering data, he goes down rabbit holes and often doesn't come back out, tends to start hobbies but not finish them. I don't know if it's entirely down to migraines, but I get fuzzy headed with the constant stream of data coming at me. My survival technique is usually to analyse the underlying patterns (which is often processed unconsciously and simply "appears" to me) and then try to grasp the concept of what I'm looking at as a system. Generally I try to grasp these systems in the simplest form possible, which is generally the most elegant way to introduce this concept. I get paid to write tutorials and documentation, often involving an intimidating computer programme, but showing the reader the quickest and easiest way into using the programme. Other types can cover the fine, more advanced details, but my documentation gets people started. I do most of my work away from the keyboard when I go walking (my head fills up with glue and I can't process any more). When I walk, the problems I'm dealing with process themselves, and the articles write themselves -- it's where I have my "eureka!" moments. I'm mostly observing and recording all of it while I walk. Then when I get back home, I try to record what I processed. If I could use a CPU analogy, I would say INTPs are CISC, while INTJs are RISC.

[@snudgegalbraith3447]

You have good insight. Keep it up.

[@RensRoom]

Snudge Galbraith Thank you!

[@Yosya8059]

I have never related to INTJ until this video... Food for thought.

[@Coneman3]

I think INFJs have a special logic which beats these 2 in at least some respects.

[@toddjacksonpoetry]

If MBTI were astrology, I would be an INTP Sun with an INTJ Moon. I think of the INTJ process as the power to draw the straightest line between two points.

[@noracat3957]

I've always felt insecure about this for a very long time but I can't literally understand new information I feel my brain need time.. just like what I'm feeling now watching ur video not understanding the concept yet! the thing is I can only teach myself .. I dont know if this related of being INFJ myself. I remember once I had an argument with a colleague cuz I skipped their many steps plan of doing a task and I created my own short cut one with same results. Kinds of a pleasure game for my mind to figure things out. Apology for the random comment 😂

[@stevedavenport1202]

Nah, INTPs win hands down. They create algorithms, solve general relativity...etc

[@Soundslikelife13]

Ti has been a complex story for me. Drawing from experience, intjs can use ti to support ni-te by conceptualizing processes. Eventually they may see themselves as a process and identify fi value (manifested maybe as self development or "growth" mindset), and eventually realize the need to rationally structure those values, and then shift focus to value the need to refine and take ti more seriously. This can be confusing because ti starts to analyze itself, tried studying a lot of philosophy and psychology for a number of years. At a point, ti over focus is mentally overwhelming. There are lots of models developed throughout history, but many change or get updated. and no model is complete without knowing all information, and one can't step outside of ones own reference point to verify that the model is correct, models seem to reflect a "slice" of reality based on a certain modality of mind used to construct it. A very Te way to see it is, all Models are all "wrong", but some are useful. If we cant know everything, i can focus on refining something im doing now that i value. However a weak area seems to be ti-se specificity of structual experience models, which may be linked to blindspot fe, if not sense of current state of experiencial now, no link to any fe to match it, since fe is for a certain occasion. As an aside, there are 2 paradigms for comp programming, functional and object oriented. I think it might be possible te is akin to functional style processing and ti to object oriented. The brain has the capacity to do both, but one superceeds the other. Te, Funtionally doing object modeling, objects as functions, functions first. Ti objective oriented definition of functional processes, objects first, seeing change as a state based "thing".

[@RensRoom]

Soundslikelife13 Any chance you could edit your post to break it into two or three paragraphs? It would make it a lot easier to read and respond :)

[@Soundslikelife13]

@@RensRoom oops, kind of a long comment. I dont post on vids much. Topics: 1. Evolution of ti role. 2. Possible innattention to se. 3. Mentioning of oo and func programming paradigms.

[@RensRoom]

Thanks for this! I meant actually just divide your original text into paragraphs but it’s ok, I’ll respond to it tomorrow either way.

[@yurizafurizaki5574]

Well.. Just bàsed on what I have observed. I am an INTP and you're 100% correct on whatever you said about the two types. To be very honest, Te's dependency on the external world and their inability to have their own thinking is sometimes infuriating to me (and likewise, my independent thinking infuriates them as well). The classic arguments between us are usually around how we use our rationality, or our T functions. I happen to know quite a few TJs, when it comes to rationality, they all have similar if not same patterns. INTP (with Ti hero as the main drive): I don't care how many statistics are out there, or how many "facts", or how many people put their faith in those "facts". Facts aren't facts if I haven't seen them for myself, they are still debatable. I want to see if these masses aren't blind sheep, that they know for sure what they are believing in and what they choose to believe in and are not just following whatever others tell them. I do not and will not follow anyone's examples or rules. I follow my own rules to see how something is logical. I do not see how something is logical just because 1 billion people follow it. xxTJs (Te hero or Te auxiliary, actually, even Te inferior also thinks the same): 10 people already told you that it's true and you still doubt it? They must have done their own research, it's not possible that all 10 are blind sheep, don't you think? And what are you trying to tell me? That your opinion is far more superior than all the data and stats out there? TJs don't seem to understand that it's imperative for a Ti dominant user to verify a fact before they can agree that it's a fact. I càn see how Ti's attitude can be interpreted as "intellectual arrogance", but this couldn't be further from the truth. They just want to be sure that a "truth" is really a truth. Ti aims for truth and for it to satisfy it's subjective goal, it has to do its own research, in which case, no one's opinion matters until it's all verified. To decide something is true, the Ti user doesn't just do a one time research, but they go through tedious efforts, filter out every information thàt reaches to them, break down everything piece by piece, layer by layer, until everything is found to be consistent and perfectly matches of how it should be seen logically. Refusing to follow the crowd is not a sign of intellectual arrogance, but more of intellectual dependency. Just because 1 billion people regard something as truth doesn't in any way make it true. Ti wants unbiased truth with accuracy and precision. It is, as you said, very cautious and careful about everything that crosses it's path. Indeed.

[@dalentis438]

Yeah...no. That's a strawman. I don't just arbitrarily decide that something is the case and then authoritatively enforce it. When Ni presents something to me, I make sure that the conclusion is based on a good foundation of logical consistency, which is itself based on my current totality of knowledge. In this sense, my truth is just as "unbiased" as yours. Except, if logical consistency alone was enough to decide truth, paradigm shifts wouldn't exist. The vast majority of information comes to you externally. Having good faith in what someone tells me when I don't know better is not "following the crowd". Whether I read a map, a news article or a scientific essay, I have to believe that what's written in there is true until a conflicting piece of information becomes revealed, because I don't have the same knowledge and/or wherewithal to test the validity of that data for myself. Neither do you, so no amount of mental gymnastics will help you come to your "unbiased truth" as long as you lack the necessary axioms to found your reasoning on. If Tarski's undefinability theorem stands, then logical truth cannot be defined in logic - an external metric is required. But I guess I'm just an idiot blindly following what some guy said and you clearly know better than all those accomplished geniuses. If you literally live your life the way you describe, the only conclusion I can make is that you're a sad cynical solipsist who lacks basics of epistemology, and feels so immensely entitled that reality is strictly defined by what you, and only you make of it. Good luck with that.

[@yurizafurizaki5574]

@@dalentis438 1. I was talking about Te in it's general sense. You ain't putting into account the differences in IQ among these people? Te is basically "what works for others must work for me too", exactly as you described, just different wording. Of course not all Te people are going to think the same or believe the same, they have differences in opinions but the drive mostly is "what works for people". An INFP wouldn't believe what an INTJ believes but both are Te users. Surely their perceiving functions also play a part in helping them to decide which decision to take. Even INTJ in company A might not agree with what INTJ in company B say. But in general, their logic is objective while Ti is subjective. Te goes by what the crowds say, this isn't saying no Te people do their research, but they do tend to be opinionated when hearing a new information. 2. I wasn't talking about Ni, so your argument that you think i was saying you just arbitrarily decide something, is not true, because I wasn't putting Ni into account. I clearly said "xxTJs", meaning both INTJ/ENTJ and ESTJ/ISTJ, as I saw same patterns among them regarding their use of Te. Of course each of them has their own preferred way of analyzing things, but the Te itself behaves about the same among them. TJs tend to see Ti as not making sense (just as you did) because of Ti's subjective logic, until the Ti shows them that their perception isn't true. For example, my ENTJ cousin and I were talking about selling her dad's property. She was asking for some input on how to market the property better. I gave my solution. Instead of "I'll think about it", she quickly dismissed my input as "nonsensical" because some people obviously told her some things that basically would make it impossible to sell the property fast. I was willing to make a bet, if it's not sold within a month, you can dismiss me for good. She agreed. And in less than 2 weeks, it's sold. She asked for my input, and when I did, she dismissed it. This is also often the case with INTJs and ESTJs/ÎSTJs I know, in general. If there's no information regarding something, and if their Ni hasn't processed the data or if their Si has no experience in it, they will quickly dismiss the new information as "nonsense".

[@c.h.dessureault5475]

11:30

[@pugninja7037]

I just go internal.. it doesnt fit, then I need more information.. I can see a long way ahead..a intj lied to me, a long time ago and I still wont trust him and he apologised once.. and as a entp, he didnt respect my Ti and I left.

[@lvonh9388]

There's no such thing as different logics. INTP.

[@Miloeren12]

People can perceive logic in different ways~ INTP

[@lvonh9388]

@@Miloeren12 "Perceive" yes indeed but Logic is Logic

[@Miloeren12]

@@lvonh9388 yes but that’s why different people can have different logics

[@Miloeren12]

@@lvonh9388 because they perceive it differently

[@lvonh9388]

@@Miloeren12 Ok to clear my point, it's a misused of the term Logic because there is only one Logic. There is bad use and good use of it and the subsequent results is what makes peoples think there is different logics and I point it at as kind of a jocke because it's make (usualy)INTP cringe (but obviously not you). Cheers.