INTP: What Ne is Doing?

Greg Brockman, one of the guys behind AI is yes, another NTP. . . INTP, of course and maybe a social type 4 as well. In this video we look at what Ne is doing in a savior state that allows puzzling and new ideas.
For more about what Ne is doing check out www.ObjectiveP...

[@RoxanneRichardson]

My husband is INFJ, but a jumper, so functions as NT, while I am INTP. The difference between Ni and Ne was so interesting to see as we were learning Objective Personality at the same time. He never wanted to get the next piece of information until he'd put the current piece in his stack of understood knowledge, while I kept saying, "Oh, yeah, I don't get that one yet," because I was gather, gather, gathering, until I could build some sort of foundation, and then I'd circle back and look at something again and realize, oh, okay, that's how that piece fits in, or I'd get to the point where I'd remember something I didn't understand before, and then know how it fit. We're both information seekers, but while he likes to learn, I'm driven to learn.

[@ohgodimdead]

This is completely spot on, on how I (an INFJ) and my INTP fiancé are. INTPs seem to need more context (nature of Si) where INxJs do not (nature of Se in 4th). We kind of haphazardly consider while bulldozing over it whereas you mentioned you circle back to see where it fits.

[@6Churches]

@@ohgodimdead I'm a regular Beta IxxJ with (C) .... and ... I care intensely about context but I just have the expectation that every context is hyper-complicated with a million possible data points, so .... what's the point getting bogged down in it? Eventually everyone - even the most committed consumer will have to stop gathering from that context and start doing something with it

[@shmlanda]

As a lead-Ne, your description halfway through of the thought process is spot on. Another great video, Shave. Thank you!!!!!

[@lindsayboss7522]

Dave, you nailed it on the Ne example with the manhole cover! The Si trigger, which is the manhole cover, generated multiple Ne extroverted ideas on how the Si trigger got there/came into being. In others word, the Si trigger generated multiple possibilities & potential from seeing the Si trigger.

[@kr-666]

The thing with Ne is, I'll go down a rabbit hole and then forget how I got to the conclusion. The string of intuitions that lead me from one idea to the next is forgotten about just as easily as it pops up. You can go from A to B, but with Ne it's like I know I started with A, and now I'm at Z, but I forgot the rest of the alphabet. The intuition doesn't stack.

[@shmlanda]

I agree!!! When I was a kid, I was much more conscious of the jumps: to the point that when I was asked how I got onto “such a random topic” I’d think *?? how do they not see it??* and breezily name each lily pad I jumped on…aaaand they still couldn’t see it

[@5idi]

2:40 He's talking about all the legitimate possibilities and I'm just angry with the idiot who opened it for whatever maintenance and then put it down wrong because the lines are not his freaking job. Only when he gets to the ninja turtles, I relax. They close it from the inside, they don't see....

[@dolibert]

Hey Dave - Your closing sentence is a real gem. Maybe you wanna treat people who stick till the end but that really deserves to be at the beginning of the video

[@SpookyGhost11]

Meanwhile, demon Ne: "Here's 30 different ways you could die today" 💀

[@cassm7679]

Dave and Shan typed me Ne/Fi and I can confirm my Ne at the top still will do this at points since my brain is so disconnected from sensory to know if my Ne is accurate in reality

[@Lmaoeatrr]

Me, with savior Ne, says it jokingly.

[@kellikakes81]

Yeah, I would joke about it too, simply just wonder (enfp), but I bet my ISTJ friend would just catastrophize it lol

[@cassm7679]

@kellikakes81 yeah i think its because it would be a savior versus demon state. Demon Ne would actually get triggered by this compared to savior Ne which can handle negativity in the possibility realm

[@elusiveglasslizard]

yes. - TeSi

[@RealnessEternal]

I think I'm Saviour NE, Likely Ne/Ti CS/PB FF. Your experience with considering the possible causes of the manhole cover situation really does sound like an NE process. NE does seem to need an Si starting reference point which then gets reinterpreted or even forgotten about as the process continues. In my case my NE is always pushing things in a more abstract/transcendental direction and I think that is likely a fundamental part of its nature. Even in the shadow form it looks like its trying to unify the psyche. Also here is some Demon Si: Alan Turing’s name is pronounced Alan Touring!

[@yustinussetyoyuniarto4816]

Yeah, i think that is how my brain works.

[@Adolphsson]

1:00 And here I am being proud that I said that Google will become a huge chat bot in front of the class at my university 15 years ago to a teacher that thought it was a way too far fetched prediction. It's a shame Turing never got to witness how good AI would become, he never knew that you could glue the cheese to the pizza.

[@eelraffe]

That closing statement is especially thought provoking!! Question, how does SiNe compare to NeSi if both require an Si trigger to come first?

[@richardo88]

I also want to know

[@darkrebel123]

Yeah this is a good description imo. I'm INFP, so I have Ne second, and whenever I encounter a new observation or idea, I instinctively come up with multiple possible explanations. Constantly asking Why. I can come up with endless perspectives on any given topic. But the key thing is that these thoughts must originate from some external stimulus most of the time. And the narrowing down largely happens based on external feedback. I have a vivid imagination, but only in a reactive way, not proactive way. This loop is actually the scientific method. I've been unconsciously practicing the scientific method since before I could talk. Make observation -> come up with possible explanations -> follow up in those guesses -> refine/narrow the guesses based on the feedback -> rinse and repeat ad nauseum. It's no coincidence that now as an adult I found myself thriving in academia and building a career in medical science. Science is the playground for Ne. Now where did I leave my Ne crack pipe?

[@RealnessEternal]

I'm an ENTP and this definitely sounds like Ne. I think there is much variation in the "narrowing down" function between the types. I would add that what you're calling the scientific method isn't specifically that. The refining/narrowing the guesses based on feedback step can be based on social pressure, convention,personal bias especially in academia. One can easily think of academic taboos. It's only scientific if it's based on evidence and no parties are lying/hiding data. I suspect this might be my cynical Ti narrowing my Ne down! It took humanity thousands of years of civilisation and philosophy and many geniuses to come up with the scientific method and it's actually quite odd and contrary to human intuition and instincts. Most people seem to either try to make science a religion where they pretend that it covers more of life then it actually does or become sceptical of science after they have been lied to by someone taking science as a religion. Science is really just one way of knowing and fetishizing it limits a persons ability to understand the non-scientific. I love the Ne crack pipe analogy-i'll have to use that!

[@PowerRedBullTypology]

It's somewhat what I do with me functions too (INTP). I think its very different from Se/Ni where it seems there is so quite a lot of insight once the insight has come to them, whereas we are more distrusting of any hypothesis. So once the Ni/Se type gets the insight, then from that moment on that is their truth. They do not need validation after they get the insight if it feels deep and profound to them,whereas we with Ne/Si keeps second guessing the hypothesis and does not trust any hypothesis fully until there is the validation of the sensing (Si) after the fact. So you can get a hypothesis that seems most likely, and then you wanna test it. I personally do not like the part about academia because I wanna do all parts myself and easily feel trapped in some Te system with rules that are not my own rules, but the method seems essentially similar. Also, with Ne/Si there is also the desire to create a loop where where you constantly want to move the experiment a bit to see what will happen now in order to build certainty. Everything that is just Ne is at first basically just in the grey. It's not deemed to be true and not deemed to be untrue. It's just _possible_ . It might be true, and mighe be false. This is why I think typically Ne/Si types also suffer from feeling lots of uncertainties, whereas Ni has the opposite problem in the sense that it tends to create an abundance of feeling of certainties that might align with reality and might not. I think this is why Ne/Si types, despite them seeming to have their heads in the clouds becuase Ne can be so fantastical, essentially often still have their feet on the ground more than it seems, because as opposite Si is just distrusting of any theory that does not repeatedly proof itself to be true. Is basically only believes what it has expeirenced to be true, which can create narrow mindededness with a lack of Ne, but does create a high sense of realism. When I was 15 or so I was pretty unexperienced with social stuff, so I went to chatsites online to talk to people in order to tr to figure out if there were patterns there. I tried to guess stuff about them with as little information as possible, because it felt like a game . Howeve, only when right it would mean someting to me and if it was wrong, I would try to adapt my hypothesis. I've done this for years, each day for hours, asking them endless questions and I really noticed I was getting quite good at it. I would also store their pictures and put them into categories, because I had the impression there was a a pattern too. It's still one of the most useful things I've done in my life to improve my social skills.

[@darkrebel123]

@@RealnessEternal I completely agree with what you're saying about the scientific method. I know I'm using it a bit loosely in this case. I suppose what I mean is that the general model by which I learn is analogous to the model used for the scientific method at its core. Both the scientific method and my analogous personal version of it definitely come with problems, especially with biases. That's where emotion really comes in, in either a good or bad way. For me, the narrowing part is the most passive part of the whole cycle. It's like I make some observation, then come up with ideas about the cause or purpose, and then just kindof bank those perspectives in the back of my mind with no real solid conclusion and forget about it. But then when I later encounter something that further informs me I pull those perspectives out again and modify them or further narrow them based on the new encounter. It's a very passive thing and I'm very comfortable with the ambiguity of holding the multiple perspectives simultaneously. For example, when I was a kid, I wondered how the planets are able to revolve around each other. My main perspective that I came up with was that maybe it's like tying a ball on a string and swinging it around, and gravity is that string connecting the earth to the sun as it spins around. Then as an adult I was told that the planets are essentially freefalling but have the right tangential velocity to maintain the distance as they freefall, so at that point I assumed my string analogy was wrong and I gave up on that. But then when I actually took a physics class, I discovered that the force diagram you would draw for the centripetal force between revolving planets is identical to the force diagram you would draw for a ball and string, so I was actually right in the first place. Both the freefall explanation and the string analogy are correct. I really like your Ti sort of approach to my comment, I really like INTPs and ENTPs for the Ti. The Ti accuracy/narrowing makes for great conversations when it butts up against my Te pragmatism.

[@darkrebel123]

@@PowerRedBullTypology I like your whole description here. Especially the part about observations not having much value/weight/etc initially. Observations are initially grey. And yeah constantly wanting to nudge the system/parameters to see what happens is a big part of it. I think that Ne/Si essentially likes to build a broad, robust, interconnected mental model that encompasses everything in a fairly connected way. Hence the analogy sometimes used for Si that it's a library, or bookshelf. But instead of books it's Ne perspectives that have been collected over time. And for me anyways, there is a sentimental connection to those perspectives that keeps them alive in my memory so that I can access them at will, even if I haven't thought of them in years. It's no coincidence that my real book shelf is also a very sentimental thing for me as well. Books excite me in a very Ne sort of way, books and Ne both represent endless horizons, endless possibilities to play with.

[@RealnessEternal]

@@darkrebel123 I wonder if you have masculine Te with feminine Fi so your Te is the more pushy function. You might find this funny but I have a 6 year old niece who is an ENTP with masculine TI and she explained to me how children are smarter then toddlers and also smarter then adults. I was so proud of her ti-ness :) So yea,Ti can be a pretty pushy function.

[@trtl9106]

As someone who only knows MBTI in the most pop culture way, this is so interesting that you broke it into a deeper science. It kinda feels like astrology especially with the diagrams. no offense

[@Charmian-and-Iras]

They generate all these alternatives and then it sorts of disappear-doesn’t it end when they’re satisfied they’ve found the weirdest alternatives? From where I’m standing (not on the SiNe axis), Ne seem to derive satisfaction from finding the most niche, bizarre or unexpected pattern. "Sure there’s this Ni explanation for 96% of the phenomenon, but look here, there’s a 3,8% possibility I’ve Ne thought about, and this other 0,2% Ne rarity and this is the one that we really really need to talk about" (and then we can drop the topic altogether) Like with the manhole, my Ne-dom besties would jump from union workers, to vibrations, to ninja turtles, to underground hobos, all the way to Idk, a criminal crew using manhole covers as signals. They’re like treasure seekers, but for the outlandish and outlying data.

[@Kamifilm]

When faced with a problem, Ne-Si is like "I will brainstorm as many solution as possible, and then organize them to establish which one is the best and doing so, I'll know if my problem is solvable easily or not and if something comes up later, I already understand how to improvise by switching option". I'm INTP and my husband is (I think) INTJ. So for him, it's more "I want that, does the data allow it ?" Here's an exemple, we are looking to buy a house. We found one that we love but at the second visit the parent-in-law said that the electric bill was way too high. So here I go... That's a problem. What could cause it ? What kind of repair we must do and how much ? Could it be something else ? What budget do we have ? Maybe it's the pool... maybe it's the isolation...etc etc. So at the end of the day I have a big list of what we could do to solve the problem and said to myself "I'm too tired, let SI this thing tomorrow" So I wake up the next morning and remembered that people being people, maybe the electric bill is not too high and it's just my in-law that are really good at saving money. So I ask my best friend of all time, Google, for his intake : and yeah, there's no problem at all with the bill, it's pretty average. I just lost a day on that thing for nothing... damn people. Meanwhile, my husband hearing the same bill problem with his Ni-Se : "Oh the bill is too high ? Can we afford it ?" Go look his monthly budget'excel. "Yep, we can !" End of the story

[@marshallrobinson1019]

I agree with the sentiment of an Ne process being obvious to other Ne users. Being an Ne-Te jumper makes things even more difficult to blast. As an example, I was waiting with relatives for a signal to cross at an otherwise deserted spot. Non peak timing was set. After two minutes and zero cars, I walked across rather than wait for the signal. My relatives [istj/isfj/entp + intp(?)] were greatly shocked. Another group of three men followed me across the road as did my relatives after thirty seconds.

[@Lily_BSFP]

I am obsessed with Ne, gonna get to that alpha state one day hopefully ☺ Best damn function and this is the best type ever! I know it is not fair to say but I really missed the old days with a bunch of Q&A videos buddy! shared my Fi today, yaaay! 😅

[@Gl00ten]

Ne - Ti answer for the cover... the workers keep it different to know they have been there, and or need to come back. You lack the lazy Si.

[@chronomirageYT]

As a saviour Ne I did build 3 fictional world off of my random Ne thoughts, definitely gonna write a book about them, for sure, when I’m less busy, before I die, surely that will happen one day.

[@dylan.j.schreiner]

I'll have to give my vote to Socionics over at Explained Correctly that ties INTP to the Critic and Introverted Intuition. (Extroverted Thinking second) I have accepted the first 4 Jung functions in a Type as being Mental and the last 4 as Vital, meaning to me 'Body'. First 2 Mental Strong. Last 2 Body STRONG. Strong vital body Ne and Ti just makes sense and I have already integrated it into the other type systems I work with. I have added my own interpretation of the Mind-Body line or point of change as being tied to one's 'Destiny' and 'Center', which is either Extraverted or Introverted based on type (same as one's type). Since the functions 3456 are weak and 'Center' or 'Destiny' is between 4 and 5 I consider this weakness and concept of destiny as being critical to clarity & growth to intuitions about how this works. Sensitivity & Vulnerability often shapes who we are, as even the indifferent universe will work around our Strengths to reach our Weakness . . . hence a strong motive to shape our future in natural response & reaction to this "fact of life". As well, our senses are naturally . . . sensitive. Fragile. So the awareness of reality generally comes from our weakness (weakness as necessity). Yes thank you good luck

[@dylan.j.schreiner]

if you check out my 11 mystic tenets, inspired by the many grillings of liver king, you will not be disappointed. found on my subreddit r/TrainingToFight

[@gracie_5]

I would like to know ni and ne in the 2. and 3. spot --> ENFJ, ESFJ, ESTJ, ISFP, INFP, INTJ, ENTJ after INTP too i cant say if i use ne or ni, something in my cognition looks only like that function. I only know that i find hardcore ill ne inferior of isfj german teachers annoying and hate wild speculation and subjective thinking of how students build thoughts instead of simply asking them during stress. We sit just there and she makes emotional theater from her own possibilities what we think or speculates emotions of us we dont have. It feels so ill to just not simply ask us to get the real answer away from perception only I have also an english teacher, who says so often pattern and connection and before her i thought, i get an overview or patterns, even knowing mbti since 5 years, but i sit there and dont see the pattern in the task so fast as her. It seems i need more clarity beforehand to build or see the pattern and that shut down all the NF and NT thoughts of being probably. Alone im like yeah i can grasp what you and Shan talk about, i have hippie vibes somehow and like numerology and vedic astrology, but with people or during a task i need details, structure and clarity and im often annoyed when a person cant say an information in 4 sentences. I always think having ni means hating this jumping and beating around the bush like 1,5 hours to say ONE simple meaning deducted. But then with friends, while writing or telling things i jump myself from topic to topic like ne users and im irritated myself what cognition i use. To see the middle function or if i use it as inferior is hard to see, the whole web is mostly only about the first or last and 8. demon function.

[@gloriouschaos3579]

Hiiii! A little off topic, but I was curious if you could do a video on Shera Seven? She's the sprinkle sprinkle lady that has been trending quite a lot lately on social media and I've wondered whats's her type. Thanks!

[@IndieAuthorX]

I think she might be on the Ni/Se spectrum. Demon Di? Just a guess.

[@actazrath5878]

Trying to write a song here, but nice manhole.

[@globalamoeba8910]

Shadow functions!

[@theinsfrijonds]

It’s too bad about the Turing series of Nvidia graphics cards that came out 5+ years ago. The uplift to performance versus the 1000 series was pathetic. No way to honor the man.

[@ohgodimdead]

What… this is bs. You described something as Si (when that’s actually Se) because your bias is seeing things through Ni/Se. An INTP or Ne user would not pay attention to the sewer drains (Se) and brainstorm possibilities (Ni) because it must be in service of Ti. INTPs have Se non-existent which would mean an INTP would never notice the drain. That’s why they are the ultimate Magoo. An INTP focuses on a topic then uses Ne to Ti that topic. That means they would start with an interest in plumbing or septic systems or how lines on pavement create order in the world, then use Ne to explore… not the other way around. What you did with noticing the lines on the drain and then brainstorming possibilities of how something like that could have occurred and how it could have been prevented is Ni/Se chaos crap. Ni connects (which is what Dave was doing). Ne disperses.

[@PowerRedBullTypology]

How would _brainstorming possibilities_ about something _random_ as seewer drains be Ni?

[@RealnessEternal]

I'm Saviour NE, Likely Ne/Ti CS/PB FF - So I have the most saviour masculine NE and Si that is feminine and demon. By your logic I shouldn't have any awareness of the physical environment. But I do have awareness of my physical environment - it's just that my awareness of my Si (i.e. the mental representation of the physical) is much stronger than my Se. I use Se when I physically interact with objects such as drinking a cup of tea(although imagining drinking a cup of tea is Si.). Ne types can use Se but it's typically we don't want to since it requires us to suppress our normal thought processes. For instance I cannot drive a car and have a philosophic conversation at the same time. The might sound like a disability but most people cannot have a philosophy conversation unless they are physically non-distracted and need to be in the right frame of mind. Regarding the INTP for an INTP the Ne is in service to the Ti which wants to generate a complete upstanding of what the TI is obsessed about. in an ENTP the NE is in charge and so the goal is to have a "good enough" general/intuitive understanding with the Ti acting as a servant to the NE by filtering out bad/dumb ideas. I think dave did have an NE experience which is a big deal for him because this would normally be repressed by his self identification with his Ni saviour. Ne is really healing for Ni types because they get stuck in on intuitive pathway that they continually strengthen(in my opinion) and Ni types are very inspiration for me since they demonstrated a very centred/wilful way of being.

[@ohgodimdead]

@@PowerRedBullTypology Se is subconscious in an Ni-dom. Dave wasn’t seeking out the drain, he just happened to notice it with his passive Se. That interaction fueled his intuitive assumptions and inferences about the drain and its stupidity. An Ne (especially one mounted in Ti as an INTP or ENTP is) would be interested in understanding how it works and fits in its context (Si) if the Ti/Ne user really cares about it that much to notice and isn’t already consumed with other rambling tangential thoughts. If it doesn’t have the information it needs to satisfy the desire “to know” it won’t assume so much as Ne will branch off into unrelated topics… like “I wonder how much the guy who paints lines on the road gets paid.” Doesn’t really solve the problem but is part of understanding the context of the situation (Si) or some dumb funny way of going about fixing it (Ti in tandem with Ne).

[@ohgodimdead]

@@RealnessEternal Okay, now for you: Imagining drinking a cup of tea is not Si, it’s intuition (Ni/Ne). The knowledge from the sensations your brain receives from drinking tea and the knowledge of the act of drinking tea and the sensations you might experience prior to drinking the tea is Si. Hold it there… I’m reviewing your stuff paragraph by paragraph so I don’t miss anything. You CAN indeed have a philosophical discussion in your head and drive at the same time if you are in fact an intuitive (meaning Ni or Ne in the first or second). Those unlikely to be able to have a philosophical discussion and drive at the same time are sensory in first and second… it’s not their preference to. It’s there preference to focus on the present and present details and information. I am an Ni-dom myself and can very much drive and have a philosophical debate in my head while driving…. Not only that, but construct full blown theories and how I would test them and how I would expect my hypothesis to turn out while driving. My INTP partner does the same thing while driving except he is more oblivious to the present working time environment (which is why he can run a red light and I am less likely to - Se in 4th versus 8th) but he operates driving from Si (that learned sensory knowledge he applies on autopilot to help him drive while having debates in his head). Our intuitive debates in our head look different though. His is expanding possibilities that may or may not exist yet but usually rooted in real world sensory applicability (like the 20 different ways he can approach responding to a judge on a case he’s ruminating on). I’m narrowing down to a conclusory statement about something that doesn’t exist yet (like how I might navigate a case this one way and at every turn figure out the best way to proceed with very little alternative options if necessary). I agree with your third paragraph. That is accurate and see no issues with your reasoning there. As far as you believing Dave having an Ne experience… I disagree. If he was an Ne user he’d be pre-occupied with thinking about something else already and not noticing the sewer drain while driving. It takes tremendous effort for an Ne user to focus on working memory (active memory used in the present to address things) unless they have an intent to focus on it - say the imperfections of the road in its entirety. I also disagree with you on Ne being healing for Ni-doms but do agree with you that Ne helps to shake up and dismantle Ni paths when not helpful or too rigid. But that is why I date a responsible Ne user such as an INTP (he brings all the fun) and I don’t employ it myself. If I use Ne, as an Ni-dom, it can reak havoc on my life and allow me to be distracted from my ultimate goals that I set for myself. I become unable to concentrate on what’s important. Where Ne can help me live and enjoy life (just like Se) is in things like cooking. Ne allows me to experience variety in cooking and it is a safe avenue for having fun and engaging Se. Phew, this “showing my work” to you and the other naysayer above you took a lot out of me (engaging Te and Si which is very difficult and not desired).

[@RealnessEternal]

@@ohgodimdead This is very useful feedback which has helped me reconsider some of my opinions. I think you might be correct but I'm not sure really how to be sure. Perhaps the example of imagining a cup of tea is not a great example since one can remember drinking a cup of tea which seems like Si or one can visualise oneself drinking a cup of tea which is imagination which seems more like a kind of intuition. I think that I have the idea that Si is a persistent process (a form of memory) and that Se is a real time process that has to be triggered by what is happening right now. This should be something you can verify since you have better access to Se than I do. I should be more accurate in my communication. If I'm distracted with a physical task that I am focusing my attention on then I can have a philosophic Ne conversation but there will likely be far more tangental rambling since it's my conscious awareness which cuts off rambling Ne. I'm considering that I really use Si to interact with my physical environment with the exception of using Se if there is an emergency which seems instinctive and unconscious. Anyway thanks for your time and attention!