Te Response to Joyce & Binyamin Ti Interview

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Joyce & Binyamin's Ti Interview: • Introverted Thinking (...

[@jennahumphrey1]

Ti delusion: I'm the authority on truth. Fi delusion: I'm the authority on morality and taste.

[@mennims]

Yep, they don't focus enough on how dumb Fi is

[@exnihilonihilfit6316]

God, I hate Fi for that reason! Philosophically (proper philosophy, not some woowoo, esoteric trash) ignorant - but oh, so passionate! Like... GTFO! You got your "philosophy" through social osmosis, emotionalist! It's _worse_ than useless!

[@davidlang9412]

This is the best video describing Ti I’ve ever seen. It very “accurately” describes how I think all the time! ...Also it’s “delusion,” not “dilution.”

[@xkoalakingx]

you're all wrong, it's actually The Lucian

[@fedup1606]

Your logic is undeniable

[@davidlang9412]

xkoalakingx Put the Lucian in the basket.

[@katlauren9161]

That typo really bothered me 😅

[@tobos8909]

I had to do a double take on that lol

[@FlowState]

"Binyamin sends me emails that are 10 layers deep of logic he's been working on for 6 months." 😂😂

[@Binyamin.Tsadik]

Lol, I'm sure I'm not the only one :D

[@pugninja7037]

@@Binyamin.Tsadik Shhhh, I do to.. Entp :)

[@Sam-bc9ll]

This is me but in an Fi world-constantly and steadily stacking my identity. Btw I have a Te (demon state) theory I want to throw at you as I’m figuring it out while writing this. I think Te people really value the input from Ti users since they’re constantly searching the Te spectrum for applicable, working systems prepackaged by Ti saviors. In the free market economy for ideas, Te users are the consumers and Ti users are the producers. It’s the same way for the feelers. Fe is always preoccupied with keeping track of values on a spectrum, i.e. what’s popular, hated, valued, and by which groups. My Fe dom friend tells me how she’s fascinated by how different people think. She’s interested in how I Fi feel about matters completely oblivious to the Fe world around me. I’m one more case study in her collective research for everyone’s values. Conversely, Di saviors value a De publisher/consumer of their deep theories and layered identities. De users satisfy our need by accepting our Di-stacked masterpiece with wonder.

[@martinparigini]

@@Sam-bc9llDude that’s such a good point!!

[@Binyamin.Tsadik]

Dave did some consume!!! I feel honored, thanks for the look on how Te views Ti. And I really try to give you proper pictures and explanations in my emails!!!! :D Thanks Joyce for the great interview and good questions. You all should go check out her channel. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rX2zoZ-Dq6-Fp5I

[@atlas569]

As a Ti, it pains me to watch systems run that "work" but do so with unnecessary inefficiencies like with some economies or many corporate models.

[@marcusaureliusregulus2833]

Or......"code"...😂😂😂

[@yeetyeetyeet1967]

NTJ

[@dustinhawkins7634]

lmfao. imagine oil machines producing oil whilst theres leaking oil into the ocean. probly why the world is so faulty, so few ti users.

[@hedialaya3230]

Yes, I get that

[@entropy8000]

This is why Ti people like myself get offended when people say your model of understanding/logic is stupid or wrong. Te users in general don't know how long and how much thought and processing went into honing and getting that model of understanding-- and to convey months or years of mental processing cannot quickly be summarized!

[@entropy8000]

IddyO I can, but it usually is not untrue, because we will typically only value something if we believe it is as close to objective truth as we can reasonably get. In the same vain, we don't usually confidently share our model of understanding until we are pretty sure the dues have been paid otherwise we are open to having others improve it or question it.

[@entropy8000]

IddyO ENTP

[@arwuh]

Te - are you thinking the same as me because I need to know in case I'm wrong. Ti - I'm thinking this, and that's all I need to know that I'm right. ?

[@Binyamin.Tsadik]

Lol, pretty much :D

[@arwuh]

@@Binyamin.Tsadik I didn't even mean it as a joke! 😁 What I am trying to say is that for a saviour Te user, their own perspective by itself isn't enough for them to strongly feel like they are right [e.g myself as I type this]

[@SpookyGhost11]

@The Hooded Claw Every introverted function will feel arrogant because it's tied to the Ego. Maybe something to look out for when typing others.

[@stariqa2]

Te is what will be the fastest route to get to somewhere. Ti is how does the road design work, what’s the reasoning behind this. So Te is logic for accomplishing something, and Ti is logic for understanding something. That’s what I see. INTP.

[@myykkoll]

@The Hooded Claw Ti IS a little arrogant XD - ISTP

[@KyokushinFighter229]

I'm an INFJ and my father-in-law is an INTJ. My wife and I recently purchased a house so we've had lots of projects, and my FIL has helped a ton. Working with him has given me insight on the differences between Ti and Te, and a lot of what you've said here rings true. When it comes to "truth" and Ti, it might help to think of "the best solution". My FIL will want to try lots of solutions to a problem like you mentioned, and he'll always want us "kids" to wait for each proposed solution to see if it works or not. Meanwhile, I'll indulge him and quietly go nuts in the corner as I work out the root cause of the problem and the "best" way to address the root cause. It's not always about the solution, sometimes it's about what's causing the problem in the first place!

[@zlatanibrahimovicisbettert7980]

If Ti didn't care about truth and only cared about what works, newton's laws of motion and gravitation wouldn't be replaced by Einstein's relativity

[@TheNicMMc]

But if a person had consume with feminine Ti as dead last in their animals then it would have same attitude as the other person with masculine Te Blast as a savior.

[@dustinhawkins7634]

they both work though.

[@Ash-gk8jp]

Elaborate how Einstein's General theory of relativity replaced Newton's laws of motion.

[@darklight898]

@@Ash-gk8jp watch eientein documentary.....scientist idiolized newton for 400 years..something like that before einstein came.. Do watch it..

[@squeezie49]

Intp here, this is probably my favorite video of yours. Gained such a better insight into how introverted functions work vs extraverted ones and it was fascinating watching you guys Te work out the Ti thought process😂😂

[@pebblebrookbooks4852]

Building blocks v Bangin' blocks? 😜

[@tobos8909]

Te: Mass production of new ideas Ti: Crafting ideas carefully, one at a time

[@choonblaze]

That's Ne and Ni. It's funny how little people know about Jungian concepts, including this channel

[@mennims]

@@choonblaze you must be thick. No one cares about sticking to the Jungian concepts vague rule book since it's vague and inaccurate. Why does it have to be pure to the initial vision of the initial vision has flaws

[@choonblaze]

@@mennims lmao if you don't have anything intelligible to say, don't speak at all. It's funny hilarious how wrong most people are when it comes to Jungian psychology xD Go read some books and touch grass kid

[@mennims]

@@choonblaze you realise your response fulfills its own requirements

[@mennims]

@@choonblaze for anyone wondering what Zach Diesel's response was before he deleted it "@Mennims Imao if you don't have anything intelligible to say, don't speak at all. It's funny hilarious how wrong most people are when it comes to Jungian psychology xD Go read some books and touch grass kid"

[@myykkoll]

"Give me time, I'm building a worldview" Wow, dead on

[@MysticDesires]

Te: Does it work in reality? Yes, great; no, moving on. Ti: Does the logic work in my theoretical model of reality? Why does it? Why doesn't it?

[@pigdev]

THIS IS THE THING! I'm an ENTJ and I usually feel offended with the usual approach to Te as if it doesn't carry any substance of truth whereas Te is literally the moat trustworthy truth because it's based on things outside our heads. And this you said is exactly how I feel like my INTP friend works: he has a mental model with many flaws but he doesn't care if it has objective flaws it makes sense to him and he can, absolutely, find the most solid truths that work in this specific framework/mental model

[@JoyceMeng22]

Thank you so much for the shoutout!! 🙂 This made my day. Here's the link to the video Dave and Shan are talking about if anyone's curious: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rX2zoZ-Dq6-Fp5I

[@Binyamin.Tsadik]

Check out Joyce's Channel, she does great work!

[@JoyceMeng22]

@@Binyamin.Tsadik also give Binyamin's channel a look :) he has great Ti thoughts on type!!!

[@jennahumphrey1]

Tx for the link! Watching now. 🙂

[@holyheathen435]

4:17 you're not necessarily wrong and we know that, you just haven't proven you're right

[@entropy8000]

innocent nkwama well stated

[@keithstray1267]

And until there is an Actual, Factual, Verifiable reason TO believe you are right, we will not believe so. Because if we Benefit Of The Doubt'd everyones reasons, nothing would work, or get done, or make progress.

[@Talastals]

this video gave me anxiety, Dave was presenting some Ti on what Ti is and Shannon was throwing all to the trash in the most Te fashion aaaaaaa

[@marcusaureliusregulus2833]

Lmao yeah

[@bricon2283]

Hahahahs yesssss felt the same way

[@subtleGradient]

1:08 if Ti has the "delusion that I'm the ultimate standard of truth" then Fi must have the "delusion that I'm the ultimate standard of what matters" EDIT: or, even better.... (thanks ​ @j4yn1ck5 !) the delusions: If it makes sense to me, it's true. #Ti If I care about it, it's important. #Fi or vice-versa delusions: If it doesn't make sense to me, it's not true. If I don't care about it, it's not important.

[@subtleGradient]

5:51 "extroverted functions have to work on the fly in reality" Yeah! Same goes for Fe. People are unhappy RIGHT NOW? Ok, I'll just emotionally manipulate you (with jokes or whatever) to be in a better mood in the moment so I can get back to my Ti deep mastery project.

[@subtleGradient]

7:30 "Ti is good at building up, Ni is good at narrowing down" This took me SO LONG to figure out. I was confusing my Ni for Ti. Now I know better. I spend WAY more time and energy narrowing down concepts than I do building up logic blocks

[@davidegaruti2582]

That sounds accurate to me : It sounds like the stereotype of the artist that goes "art is the cure for the world" and I go " no dickhead science, good politics , education and many other layers of things will help the world suck less , art is a tool in the box but it's not a cure all end all ..."

[@subtleGradient]

9:38 "Te on the outcome, Ti on the truth that gets to the outcome" I'm seeing that Ti feels the need to completely master the problem space and all the skills necessary to achieve the outcome, but doesn't feel obligated to actually produce the outcome. Ti builds up the Self with more skills. Te gets stuff done IRL, using whatever skills it can cobble together in the moment, thereby building skill through experience

[@subtleGradient]

10:51 "Once I figure out what is true, then I'll value it (e.g. diet, finances)" My Fe is the opposite, I'm not 'allowed' to invest time building skills or deeply mastering something unless it objectively matters to people in reality relative to all the other things that matter to people (Fe).

[@nathanspinelli6987]

I think it's more that Ti gets pissed if something works that "shouldn't" work per the individual's Ti. If I've worked out some logic and some comes and disproves it by doing something that shouldn't work but does I now have to rethink it. No bueno

[@bananewane1402]

Nathan Spinelli If it works, it works 🤷‍♀️. The bottom up approach (reasons -> therefore this should work) is difficult and has the tendency to go wrong. The top down approach (This works -> this is why) works better and makes more sense. But I guess that’s the difference between us. I take the approach to life that works better and makes more sense, which is to always take the approach that works better and makes more sense.

[@ultranuat]

I think this describes the Ti-Ni combo well. However, it in no way describes the Ti-Ne combo. Ti Ne looks at something and thinks I KNOW that's bullshit. Ti-Ne never confirms it only removes definite bullshit answers. I could have a million people telling me it's true. If I know it's bullshit I'm not going to be dissuaded. Ti-Ne works by thinking up a bunch of different alternatives and then checking each one of them to see if they're false. Both are certain in their reasoning, one is certain it is right. The other is certain something is wrong.

[@planetary-rendez-vous]

You check it out with logic

[@atomnous]

why isn't that Si-Ti?

[@jamesharglerode8734]

@@atomnous That's not Ti/Si because Ti/Ne is allowing the person to approach the thing from multiple perspectives and cut out what isn't supposed to be there. Ti/Ne is like a surgical knife and a scanner.

[@atomnous]

@@jamesharglerode8734 I agree. Also, Fi-Ne works by asking a bunch of questions or seeing many problems and finding ways in which something is possible. But whenever a question appears, they don't want to assume the answer, so they often leave it unanswered or give multiple possibilities and maintain doubt and skepticism.

[@brianhartger]

Te: “It works! Let’s move on.” Ti: “Interesting. I wonder how it works.” Te: “Who cares?” Ti: “I do.”

[@JessBritvec]

Ti- “I got time!” 😆 I’ve spent years (like up to 4 years in one instance) working for and with Te savior types, trying to figure out how their way of doing things works. I wasn’t comfortable leaving a couple jobs until I understood, and then when I had the information that made me conclude “this works for you but it’s not true,” then I was comfortable leaving and able to maintain self confidence. During that time I saw Te exactly how Dave is describing here, where it’s moving so fast nobody really understands how or why this works even if it does. I kept thinking there has to be something to this if it works, but my conclusion was that those people are just getting by and I don’t want to just get by.

[@JoaoJGabriel]

This doesn't seem to speak only of the Ti/Te dichotomy. I'm an INTJ, with savior masculine Te, and I still get bothered by taking things at face value, or "just getting by." An ENTJ friend of mine said that me and our INTP friend "can only accept one way of explaining things," while our ENTP friend could go along and "undertand" other ways of communicating an idea. In pratice, he was saying we had more intellectual rigor, while they could talk past each other and "just get by" with the bullshit. Carl Sagan was probably an ENTJ, and talking about God in a lecture (that you can easily find the snippet on KZbin), he said "why would we use a word so ambiguous that ... gives you freedom to seem to agree with someone else you don't agree?" Steve Jobs is another example of a thoughtful ENTJ, that wouldn't settle with "anything that works" -- in fact, he was known to push for extremely high standards. On the other hand, Neil DeGrasse Tyson is a double masculine ENTP that talks a lot about scientific rigor. In the couple of times I've watched the video, I thought "there's something to it, but I can't settle for this interpretation," even if it halfassly works. So, in a way, I relate to what some savior Tis are trying to accomplish, but maybe I'm just approaching it through different means. A part of me thinks that if I'm not able to explain something confidently to a child, in true Feynman's fashion (who was probably an ENTP), I haven't yet figured it out, and I might pinpoint that to my dominant masculine Ni. There's a lot of second guessing when you try to be intellectually honest, just now I was wondering if I'm just a weird ENTP -- and got to the conclusion that my lack of Fe is telling. This predisposition to keep questioning in the hopes of getting to an universal truth might have something to do with being Energy or Info dominant, or having savior masculine Ni or Ti, or something else entirely, I don't know. What I do know, is that I'd like to know -- even though that it probably wouldn't change my life in any palpable, practical, way.

[@fedup1606]

I work with a bunch of Te-doms as well. From the Ti perspective it feels like I work with a bunch of ADHDs. You get two steps into the logic chain on why I'm doing what I'm doing and the next thing I know they're talking about X NFL game. It's maddening... I think one day I might "rufee" everyone's coffee with aderol just so I can have an intelligent conversation on ONE topic for a day.

[@darth_santos1137]

@@JoaoJGabriel The part of seeking an answer/ a universal truth to something rings true for me too. An urge to get the answer before going into something new even when it doesn't actually change anything for me in physical reality.

[@madmystic6529]

Ti mantra: question the premise

[@planetary-rendez-vous]

Question everything

[@farrex0]

@@planetary-rendez-vous Why?

[@planetary-rendez-vous]

@@farrex0 why not, it's how INTP operates anyway, questioning the premise but you can go further.

[@farrex0]

@@planetary-rendez-vous How?

[@MrLuigiFercotti]

Yep, you can attack anything by going for the foundation.

[@johnniedilangcruz9287]

I grew up with an ESTJ mom as an INTJ. And watching Dave trying to calm a Te Shan down by analogies is exactly what my childhood was like. One major difference is that Shan has Ni or an NT type whereas I'd have to go Si or ST accurate to explain to an ESTJ what my Ni ideas are. This video was liberating. Damn!

[@oscarl.3563]

"Betraying the tribe" does not necessarily have to come with a fu U. It's just going separate ways and can be done maturely without any drama.

[@wes2262]

One of the best videos you both have made. I understand Ti vs Te and Ni vs Ne way more. Best personality channel, hands down.

[@KajsaBernhardina]

I love this video! As a lead Fi, my struggle was always not understanding the practical implications of introverted thinking, it seems so far away from my personal experience that I have had trouble grasping the concept of Ti. I think by approaching it through Te you helped me finally realize how it works! This video was also great as many of these definitions can be applied to all introverted and extroverted functions to some extent. Thanks for sharing!

[@TheWinterWarlock]

The way I understood this is through the differences between my savior feminine Fi and my dad's savior feminine Te. While he's throwing logic at a wall, making things work for other people whether he understands how or not, I'm documenting how I feel so I can try to understand other people's feelings. In my mind, I need to figure out why people feel the way they do so I can reconcile it internally. I rarely use these practices to please others cause I feel like it's sucking up to them. By documenting my thoughts and emotions, I can understand better how to change my emotional state to be more conflict resistant.

[@bananewane1402]

Techno My Fi makes it hard for me to actually put myself into the emotional mindset of another person. I have the tendency to go “well what would I feel in that situation” and treat others how I would treat myself.

[@kellikakes81]

Techno, I super duper relate to what you just explained (I'm enfp btw). It's the sole reason why everyone feels as if they can talk to me about anything because they think I understand them (by me doing what you just described).

[@sophiaredwood5825]

@@bananewane1402 Ne/Fi here, this is me all the time

[@panyxpsyckulator]

I think Ti is more likely to honestly answer with "I don't know", whilst Te will try to give an answer for as long as it takes for their Fi to be like "I don't give a shit anymore".

[@TheNicMMc]

Do you think someone with feminine Ti would be honest with what they know or would they get just as pushy with their Masculine Fe like how Te user would except with values or "Why are you treating me like I am stupid?" instead of fake reasoning/logic.

[@atomnous]

It's the other way around. Ti can't have contradictions in their mind, so they must fill in or remove something. They can't say "I don't know" and leave the gap open. It's kind of dogmatic

[@sophiaredwood5825]

@@TheNicMMc Ooooo this is such a good question! I’m a double decider with feminine Fi, and I can definitely say that that applies to my situation; if my Fi gets insulted or questioned in a way that makes me insecure, I may angrily flip into masculine Te to defend myself before I can even think twice about it.

[@PhotoRubio]

(INFP) As a lead Fi, I would find it amazing to see how you both/other types employ it. It would be like seeing the same thing from another angle. This would help getting a better understanding of it.

[@jankom.7783]

In another words, you would like to Te. Te are "voices in your head" who tell you, what other people think about something, because you memorized their reasons from arguments that you had.

[@johnniedilangcruz9287]

My "Fi" just told me, "DILUTION" was deliberate. We know it's "DELUSION" so I'm thinking Dave is messing with the "Ti" peeps out there. lol xD

[@dustinhawkins7634]

maybe dave isnt the onky one who wanted to mess with ti users.

[@exnihilonihilfit6316]

I read he's dyslexic

[@Diaming787]

As someone with good Te, I love math and physics because how useful it is, not for fiddling out with the intricate logic. It's more of a love-hate relationship. I literally mine out the Ti to obtain that Te I look for. Needed to use my Ni help me out.

[@orangeorblue132]

That's so interesting, I just had this thought. I believe that I likely have Te and I like to talk out most of my logic with other people but I do care about the depth of the logic as well, so I tend to try and analyze each argument and idea together with them, so it makes sense completely. But that is usually so overwhelming for the other person, they usually end up really confused and get tired. I really don't want to bother other people that much but I end up doing so when I really want us to figure out an idea fully

[@aubreys1675]

Te starts with the outcome and works its way back to the first thing that will work Ti goes step by step to make sure nothing gets missed

[@farrex0]

As a Ti user, I am ENTP, I have Ti as secondary function and Te as a Critical Parent, but of course I naturally prefer Ti. This is how the logic for a Ti user works from my point of view and why we value understanding how things work over the solution. From what I can gather, a Te user is more preoccupied with solving the problem, while the Ti user is preoccupied in learning from that experience to build their internal logic and further improve their skills. So from the perspective of a Ti user, once you understand how something works you can use it to solve something else. Let's say a Te user might seem faster than a Ti user, since a Ti user will stop to understand how the solution actually worked. Let's suppose it takes 5 days for a Te user to solve a problem, and it takes ten days for a Ti user to solve it because they take their time to understand the logic, clearly Te seems better. However, Ti takes longer because that person took the time to understand how things worked, so now that the Ti user understood how things worked the Ti user can use that knowledge to solve problems faster, so now the Ti user will take 20% less time to solve it. So it will take three iterations for the Ti user to catch up with the Te user, and from there the Ti user will actually be faster and better than the Te user (assuming they are both equally as competent and intelligent). That is the logic behind a TI user, whether or not it works on practice that depends on the person and situation, but that is how we see things. For that same reason, we love giving detailed explanations because we love sharing our thought process, in order to help others build their Ti, the same way some Fi users love sharing their feelings. I don't personally feel offended when people challenge my ideas or my logic, unless someone downright insults me. Perhaps that might be my Ne kicking in wanting to see the other person's perspective to see if I learn something new, but if they just call me out and do not give me a good reason why I am wrong, then I do get mad.

[@RoseAllDay789]

I now need to go Ti make sense of what you are saying for myself. For real though I see this in typing. I don't need to cover my reasons for why someone is a certain type, because the Si-Ti system is my own. The goal is still to align with you all - but I'm responsible for all the sensory and logic organization to get there. People who I speak to on the other decider axis have to give reasons and need the back and forth. I'm trying to find a middle ground though - perhaps I can more Se-Te out my process but keep my typing Si-Ti. It just seems when I do that I get worse results. Meanwhile my Te-Fi typing partners may need that on some level. I'm perhaps biased because I expect everyone to have an Si-Ti system like me and we can compare notes and adjust. But they don't of course! We are all different. You all are lucky in that you are on the same axis - I'm trying to understand your axis and systems too. I can see it in how different our approaches are to typing. Yea, I still need to go to my Si-Ti sleep to figure this out and put it somewhere meaningful in my box/system. Thanks for the great video and thank you Binyamin and Joyce!

[@N8swann]

This might be one of the best comparisons I have seen. As a Te/Ni (ENTJ) made so much sense to me. The act of getting to the lowest common denominator is something that is fundamental to me. You guys are so fun to watch and learn so much about myself through both of your perspectives. #suckingupasmuchasican

[@seamusmorrison1532]

The astrology example was excellent!! Love to see success but i just can't hop on board myself if the logic doesn't sit right

[@LIDYAEIL]

Going a layer deepr, knowing myself, I think that Ti for me at least works so that I figure out something for once to the core and understand I can trust it, I will be able to use the knowledge and do the correct thing faster next time a similar situation comes up according to the logic, and aim with a higher accuracy than randomely trying new things again and doing over what Ive done before but havent learnt from. Its like learning from your past to help your future go smoother. That means being slow in the beginning and then being fast once you figure things out

[@TheINTPProblem]

I think of Ti as modular thinking so we can place the pieces in different places if need be, usually for explanations.

[@GinaBryantTheodora]

I so Te/Ni relate to D & S’s analysis of B & J’s interview. It helps to relate to the fascinating Ti’s in my life. Love all four of ya.

[@hfortenberry]

INTJ here. I also watched that interview and I have to say that I totally get what they are saying. I think I have pretty well-developed Ti from when I was in college earning my 2 science degrees where they are constantly forcing you to explain yourself and back up what you are saying. It was really good for me. Granted, my Ti is always going to come after Te because Ti does take longer. But when I'm trying to solve a problem, I will start with Te and then if no solution presents itself and if there is nobody to talk it out with, i will dive into Ti. I am pretty good at solving my problems that way.

[@jTiKey]

About the "truth" Ti seeks - there's a lot of outdated information, like you have to turn off your phone on a plane or it will crash, or that restarting a PC damages it. Te believes and follows them, but Ti questions it - "is it still relevant? Why do people do that". Fi does the same with morality. Fe would still deal with shitty parents, "because they are my parents", but Fi ignore the general opinion, and if they feel that their parents were awful, they will cut them out, no matter what other people think.

[@subtleGradient]

Great point!

[@Rokiotop900]

Fi people scare me

[@henkster6067]

Could be that Ti reasons apply more as to why the parents are bad and worthy of being written off and so then override Fe to write them off. Suppose that's where the Fe guilt comes in of writing them off when you feel things should be all and well with your parents??

[@timo4258]

wait not everyone questions these things? Like if phone can really crash the plane etc.

[@jTiKey]

@@timo4258 not unless it's a bother or struggle

[@Acumen928]

If you wana see a Te user short circuit ask them for their basis, get the popcorn and enjoy the movie. I do this very simple trick to my partner all the time when we argue.

[@PagoMTGAoE2]

As someone with lead Fi I feel that the concepts expressed in this video can be used in more of an emotions or value way to describe the relationship between Fi and Fe. I have had so many Fe people just shit-out vibes. They are like "do these values work for everyone, no? what about these values? or these ones?" My Fi is like "wait I need to spend some time figuring out if this is moral or not. Is it right or wrong?" I will literally tell the Fe that their vibe do not jell with me and here are five other groups that don't like these values. My Fi has to personally vet every value presented to me.

[@tofusamurai22]

Predator vs. Terminator -- YES!!! God Bless that Ni analogy, Dave! Thanks to both of you! Another fun and informative one! :P

[@dianadias3]

I just want to see that Fi video.. INFP.. fuuny that comparison between Fi and Ti.. I have been told I was stubborn with my ideals, yeah of course, Fi.. but I am very curious abou demon Fi.. why dont people talk that much abou Fi?

[@PsychologyandChillwMichi]

Predators vs Terminator.... i am smelling a hollywood favorite

[@Binyamin.Tsadik]

I'd watch it

[@dassi1565]

Of course.

[@aczikere9949]

I really enjoyed you two learning about yourselves and drawing conclusions by observing Ti vs Te. It's a great emotional capacity to step back and find what's good about something very uncommon to you. As an INTP I try to do that with feelings.

[@TheIntrovertedThinker]

I promise you. Watching you Te people is equally painfull sometimes. Lol

[@exnihilonihilfit6316]

Superficial airheads...

[@synergyzer07]

I noted that when you guys talked about having reason for solutions, Dave didn’t care at all about reasons (as long as the proposed solution works), while Shannon still did want reasons. I think it demonstrates he has Ti Critic, a pessimistic shadow function, whereas Shannon has Ti Nemesis, an optimistic shadow function. Very interesting and useful video, thanks and congratulations for the great work!

[@sophiaredwood5825]

Ooooo what do those mean? Can you talk more about them?

[@lalalanding234]

I'm ENFP, and i can relate to this Ti quote! I somehow keep being delusional about myself being the BEST in standards for values and morals and think that everyone should be like me....! Lpl

[@freshbakedclips4659]

Lol no. I'm an ENTP, my worldview and my internal stacks of logic is superior than the Te-Fi users.

[@pepethemusical2268]

​@@freshbakedclips4659 Can you describe TI?

[@freshbakedclips4659]

@pepethemusical2268 from what I understand after watching countless videos of ObjectivePersonality: Te - logic that works but doesn't necessarily makes sense. Ti - logic that makes sense but doesn't necessarily works. Te is more on utility of logic, while Ti is more on deep analysis. Te is impersonal logic, while Ti is personal logic. Te is a wide spectrum of logic, while Ti is a narrow stack of logic.

[@hfortenberry]

I love that Predator vs Terminator analogy. Excellent illustration of Ti vs Fi!

[@KajsaBernhardina]

Could you make a similar video explaining Fi through Fe? This was such a great help in understanding the decider functions

[@Rokiotop900]

I need that video, for me Fi users appears sociopaths to me xD

[@PowerRedBullTypology]

Not finding the right words seems more of an Ni problem than Te problem.

[@smvallet]

What I’m getting is that Ti is perfecting or fine tuning logic and Te is “good enough”.

[@synergyzer07]

If I don’t understand the logic that led to a positive outcome, I won’t be able to reproduce in the future, so it will seem that I simply was lucky, rather than competent. Because my Ti is over Si, so having had the experience of solving the problem without knowing exactly what happened isn’t enough… I sometimes revisit solutions that I had forgotten how I came to, to make sure I still have that skill.

[@poopoo-tr7xy]

How I got to the conclusion is more important than the conclusion itself, even if the conclusion is wrong, most of the time by using sound reasons I'll arrive at the correct conclusions anyway. The fun part is how I got there, as well as the possibilities and implications it provides

[@subtleGradient]

Sometimes stuff just needs to get done ASAP. That's when I want a Te to do it. But I want the Ti people building the bridges and super colliders ;)

[@poopoo-tr7xy]

@@subtleGradientI always admired Te's ability to get things done, it's something I'm really trying to work on and I look up to those that can. But I find it pretty comedic when I sit down to talk with a highly conscientious Te person and go on a rant about philosophy. For example how reality is likely largely an illusion as we can only use our senses to observe it, subsequently we can't prove anything as 100% true even basic facts. I'll get puzzling and astonishing looks

[@wissen9000]

3:38 i call it the shotgun approach

[@jerlinej3516]

Fi works for self care if the individual is self aware and not too selfish, regardless of type Fi by itself or as a demon, like any other function is limited and immature, you're just sitting there stewing in some emotions, you don't know what you're feeling, why you're feeling it, what to do about it, or the consequences of those feelings. So no function works on it's own that would be weird Fi+S=actually identifying my feelings and moods (tired, sad) Fi+T= reasons for my feelings and moods (is it because of lack of sleep, food, hormones, trauma?) Fi+N= possible consequences of my feelings and moods (if I don't sleep or eat enough I'll probably be sad and tired again, which could cause other consequences) Explaining N is still hard for me though

[@legendzfall]

I can see the Te/Ti thing with myself(INTJ) and my brother(INFJ) where diet is concerned. We're both doing a keto diet, but I only care about the results/benefits, while he compulsively needs to understand every aspect of it at a f**king molecular level.

[@TheNicMMc]

I have co-worker with the same attitude towards assignments. She would want to get as much information for herself as she much she can but when actually comes to sharing that knowledge for teamwork, she would get really weird with it even if it's asking client's address for delivery or the green light to do something.

[@chazstone6744]

So I've just shown this to my wife (she can't stand this stuff, btw) and in the process of talking it through/thinking quietly on my own I had an epiphany of sorts. As an INTP I suffer from momentum interruption due to two factors. 1) I'm rebuilding my VW engine, for instance, and I come to point where I don't know enough about the functional reasons for some part. Ti will not let me move forward until I have a more thorough understanding of what needs to be done and why. 2) And this is a real kicker, I have too much understanding and there is no longer a challenge involved for my Ti. This randomizes my Ne and where that tangent resolves is anyone's guess. So, for the INTP to truly be productive, there is a sweet spot between knowing just enough to be competent but not knowing so much that the task seems pointless to pursue. I'm a computer programmer and I have, on numerous occasions, when asked about the progress of a project, replied to my manager that it was done... I just have to write the code.

[@sophiaredwood5825]

ENFP here. I’m writing an ENTP protagonist into a story and I’ve been obsessively trying to understand Ti for months. Somehow, after all those months, this one comment is what just made it click the most for me. Thank you so much for this.

[@exnihilonihilfit6316]

Do you still think you're an INTP? (I find it hard to imagine an INTP rebuilding an engine! 😅) What type is your wife? (in by "this stuff" you meant typology)

[@chazstone6744]

@@exnihilonihilfit6316 Yes. It was the only way to learn how it works completely. I started building a second one but never finished it. Divorced now, current GF is INFJ.

[@msbrowneyes9010]

Really insightful video. I'm an infj and I related so much to wanting to learn how somthing works for myself. My husband is an intj and I absolutely hate when I ask him to show me how to do somthing and he just starts doing it himself. I've litrally said to him "If you do it for me I won't get a chance to learn" and he's just like" Well it's faster this way so just let me do it". Then I run this internal monologue "It's faster now but if I understand it for myself I'll be able to do w.e you're showing me and possibly more if I'm able to expand on your process. I can also probably apply the same concept to other things later on. You're really just robbing me of an opportunity to learn right now. Plus I won't have to ask you again; you know that you hate repeating yourself".

[@jankom.7783]

That sound like Te internal monologue. Are you sure, that you are INFJ? Because you had argument with his thoughts in you head. And you were giving him reasons for helping you. And you seem to be asking him to teach you how to solve certain problem, not showing you, how all of it works, what would Ti do. Good indication for your Te-ness would be, if you would just take this as my argument, and had no/small emotional reaction to it, and not that I doubt your Ti identity.

[@msbrowneyes9010]

All and all I can't really say I had an emotional reaction to your opinion. I honestly just questioned why you felt you could question somones type based on a comment without ever having met them or even had a full conversation with them. It's one thing to discuss functions and whether or not I provided an accurate everyday example of them in my anecdote but to suggest someone reevaluate their entire type seems premature. It's an oversimplification of somthing complex. I could very well discover I am not an INFJ and do use some combination of Te and Fi but I wouldn't make that decision based on a youtube comment made by a stranger. Even if it was just your argument it was made on the premise of knowing/observing how someone else thinks so it still comes off as presumptive.

[@chestercobblepot7839]

Fi: “Lazer blasting parakeet on my shoulder.” Bahahahahah!!!!

[@determinators]

man, i definitely felt the bit about sending people shit that i’ve been working on for six months and they don’t know what i’m talking about because they weren’t in the process lmao

[@Eigenbros]

A great example of Te vs Ti I personally experienced was when I was stuck on a part of computer code that didn't work. My Te buddy ask me if I tried A,B,C,D,E, and came up with about 10 different solutions without even looking at the code. I (Ti) sat and stared at the code while playing it back in my mind. When I played it back, I realized where the problem was and eventually corrected it. Te threw out way more solutions in that time, while Ti had to visualize the code for the solution.

[@fib4983]

Te Inductive reasoning Compassion thinking, creating and intaking ideas until it finds the best one, focused only on outcome. Ti, deductive reasoning Building up the process of thoughts, creating a complete understanding of it, and then giving the outcome. Ti seems better, but its slower and relies on good logic, one flaw and it falls apart Te relies on having an giant storage of ideas to compare through

[@TheINTPProblem]

You guys are great! For me, I use Ti to find multiple pathways to a truth. So my logic may change day to day about an outcome even if the outcome is the same and that different way of looking at this modular thinking leads me to different ideas or outcomes altogether.

[@lukalisjak2106]

Te is the attorney, advancing the most efficient reasons for his cause (Fi). Ti is the judge, creating a much more tight & water-proof reasoning that has to accomodate a broader set of social norms (Fe) in a theoretically consistent manner.

[@MrLuigiFercotti]

If you really want to spend a lot of time diving into perfectionism, just match up Ti and Ni.

[@JohanJohnJohnson]

I have Ne and Te. So, does this mean I’m constantly spewing some bullshit to people? That’s sad.

[@Acumen928]

sorry...

[@Eigenbros]

I've been writing an mbti essay lately and noticed the strange nature of Ti vs Te and Ne vs Ni. It seems like Ni and Ti are strangely similar in that they are both building an edifice of some sort supported by an extroverted function, but weirdly one is a perceiving function and the other is judging.

[@SekRanger]

As a programmer with Ti. When given a task, I have to read the code, study the infrastructure, research on how everything connect. Aka I am building the system in my head first. Then I can start maybe 10 lines code.

[@specialknees6798]

This was a good exploration of the difference between the Te engineer and the Ti physicist.

[@jamesspartin117]

My predator Fi actually secretly loves keeping trophies from especially annoying adversaries and putting their heads on pikes as a warning to others. Just thought id throw out an interesting little guilty pleasure. This is all figurative. Im not a psychopath i swear XD.

[@Rokiotop900]

People with Fi are sociopaths

[@renwannabe3237]

Ouh yeah heck i do love disregarding my friends feelings and annoy them for my own amusement. Sometimes i guess. I'm not a sociopath i promised.

[@PsychologyandChillwMichi]

Ni bugs me but i love NiTe feedback personally because i am well aware i do not think through my ideas well

[@pada5992]

7:02 "I refuse to accept something THAT DOES NOT WORK, if it isn't accurate" :D

[@notJafar]

Here's another Te paraphrase of Ti for ya. Ti wants the most efficiency at the expense of affectiveness. Te wants the most affectiveness at the expense of efficiency.

[@exnihilonihilfit6316]

It's "_e_ffectiveness", from "effect". An "affect" is a different thing.

[@uzih]

Lol this whole interview Dave reeling in Shan's Te 😆

[@TheNicMMc]

Yeah the Te was getting more and more pushy every time when Dave was like "Ah nope".

[@pamboutilier3509]

"The truth that gets to the outcome" really resonates for my Fi (when I try to wrap my head around Fe). Does it fit for all Introverted functions when compared to their extroverted same function. Also...Fi twist... 'Once I figure out if I value it, then I'll make it true'.

[@sophiaredwood5825]

I feel like Te says, “Does it work? Then I’m allowed to value it,” and Fi says, “Is it valuable? Then I’m allowed to use it.”

[@jankom.7783]

I think, that Ti and Te understand "the truth" differently. For Ti, truth is, what is internally consistent, what makes sense. But also, tribe has to like it (Fe). For Te, truth is, what works, what accomplishes Fi goal. Basically, truth is what satisfies internal decider.

[@madmystic6529]

Janko M. I think you’re a good part of the way there. The Fe bit, though. What proves out, proves out. No one has to like it, agree with it or accept it. Doesn’t matter, it’s still true. Satisfying the Di is good enough, short term. But we are constantly re-examining “known truth” to see if anomalies occur. If so, satisfying Di short term becomes pointless. That’s when we have to tear down all of it. Di was wrong. What was Di’s premise? Tear it down. What data points built that premise? Tear them down. Etc, etc.

[@jankom.7783]

@@madmystic6529 I think, that "thinking" is only process. Ti creates process. But for truth, you need a goal, something to accomplish. That is "feeling". And when your Ti doesn't accomplishes any goal, that tribe requests, you cannot know, whether it is true or not. Example: Ti learns, how to grind a metal really precisely. Is it true? No. It just is. It doesn't do anything. But you go bother tribe, and it asks you to make a knife. Can you do it? If yes, it is true. Your process can deliver goal given to you by tribe. Fi-Te does the same thing the opposite way. It first makes some goal (with a lot of sub-goals. Feeling is complex decider here ), and then we all make process together.

[@Rokiotop900]

Nope. I'm INTP and I don't give a fuck if truth hurts to others

[@jesshakola]

“Works” over all the dimensions of time, meaning, social perception, etc.. it’s not “somehow managed to work” it’s more, works completely and deeply on all layers.

[@lyndapeirce1923]

For anyone interested, here's a link to Binyamin's interview with Joyce so you can see the full video for yourself. …( his name is spelled wrong in this clip so it'd be hard to find him.) Great videos, y'all. or anyone interested, here's a link to Binyamin's interview with Joyce so you can see the full video for yourself. …( his name is spelled wrong in this clip so it'd be hard to find him.) Great video.

[@enotdetcelfer]

TL;DR - Ti feels that there are more parts, and while Te sees the general truth, the Ti user gets irked because the details or specificity in their particular version covers the exceptions or bugs / issues that arise when you just go for something that's right/true/works most of the time. - - - Ti user here, thought this was great because having a Te description of starting to understand really highlights the difference. It's part what you say here, and part what you say in another video where you showed a complex gearbox thing and said it was making you mad just looking at it or something. I think the key for Ti is like each layer of logic get's it's own full battery of analysis. You see yourself as having layers of arguments, but a Ti user would start seeing problems because your layers only have one argument so to speak. You've figured out what is true by what works with the other layers, and that's usually a pretty good approximation of the truth. It's like saying Killing people is bad, then being asked well what if someone is trying to kill you? and you adjust that to, don't kill people unless they are trying to kill you or someone you care about. Done! *dust off hands and go to the next problem*. But then what if the person you care about is trying to kill someone and they're... etc etc, it's like... we have to do these extra laps to make sure that not only do we not have errors in the logic, but also that we don't have bugs or loopholes that when two different parts do something unexpected but within the bounds of their own logic, they don't cause some unexpected emergent issue because there was some deeper level that wasn't understood. When you say Ti is built on vs Ni narrows down, it's actually that Ti and Ni both narrow down, but logic is such that it's a building block kind of thing, but what it's used for depends on whether Ti is the lead in a Decider-Observer pair, or if it's the servant in an Observer-Decider pair. The process of Ti is still a sort of breaking down of an OE function for me because I'm Ne-Ti. For me it totally is about narrowing down and digesting because my Ne gathers the concepts and forms and then my Ti runs around making sure this theory from this part of this concept doesn't step on the toes of that theory from that concept, and slowly what it's doing is narrowing down to "ok, we've confirmed that not killing is the core concept and not being kind or what the law is" etc. It's like building a hierarchy vs building a tree which is what extraverted observers do, it's like a broadening search pattern. This is what leads to the "my way is the real right way and everyone has it wrong" notion, that when unchecked, or if the Ti user is sidelined / not listened to, can give this sense of the world rewards injustice, etc. There is some resolution that the Ti user has achieved by distilling, expanding, re-distilling, expanding ad infinitum the logic of the situation, and when we try to explain it the Te users will say "wow that's the result of all that extra thinking? we got 85% of it done in 1/3rd of the time by rolling up our sleeves using what we know, and what we weren't able to get, we hired out for it." But we would argue that because we broke it down an extra few steps (ie, worked out the complexity at each level in a bit more detail) we now have something that is portable to other situations and it will still work, because it gets at the core thing that then any thing can build on. Anyway! Really enjoyed this, great vid!

[@chica3824]

Omg - me and my group have been playing Pandemic Legacy and we have an ESTJ who is so decisive and flexible with ideas (okay let's do this gogogo) and my INTP friend is like woah I need to understand why and every ramification of that move before we commit. Each move takes us about an hour!

[@hfortenberry]

As an INTJ who thought I could never pair up with an ENTJ because my Dad is the classic ENTJ rather than a jumper, I am totally crushing on Shannon. This is so cool because now I realize there are other types out there with whom I could pair up besides just INFPs and ENFPs. I always thought being with a thinker would be too hard on me emotionally because i'm sensitive (lol) and I needed a feeler but I see Shannon is ADORABLE and so smart and gorgeous! You two are totally cute together!

[@user-el6my6vi7p]

Well since Ti is an identity function we’re still impatient when things “don’t work” if they’re outside our personal interest and what we associate with ourselves.

[@telamere2043]

As a theoretically entj this completely explains why I can't pay attention to game rules or instruction manuals.

[@cherishtheday2223]

The “dilution” threw me off ngl

[@tm27field]

Your videos are helping me understand the functions so much better. Thank you.

[@floriannamias9332]

Te : ideas are for free. Ti : ideas are gold.

[@joshuapowell3526]

I am the ultimate standard of truth. I'm a vessel of observation.

[@tanushukla9567]

The difference between what is true and what works ( in my opinion) is subjectivity (Te) and objectivity (Ti) . So here's an analogy... There's a well in a town, and according to objective scientific evidence the well's water temperature remains same all year round. But experientially, if you ask the people they'd say the water is cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter season (because... relatively the temp at the surface has changed). Both observations are correct and I think that this phenomenon might also be informed by the Fi or Fe in the function stack. At least that's how I've come to understand it. -INFP

[@dawnriddler]

"I got a reason, now I'm allowed to like it" 😭

[@einsame_Maria]

Delusion*

[@billmyron2]

As a Ne Ti...I'm glad to see humor with this cause sometimes it's maddening :)

[@seanglaze7284]

11:30 - "we will do stuff that is not true but does work" lol, MBTI in a nutshell

[@jmiller1977]

I am NE but I really understand TE

[@pocketfulofposey]

Fi = values. Your feelings tell you want you value and what needs are being met. An internal knowing what you need based on how you feel about it. This makes me happy because it’s stimulating or this makes me sad because I am not being considered. Much faster than Ti; which makes me wonder if that’s why it’s other side is Te which is ready to act. Ti , once I figure it out, I value it = it meets my needs for clarity and understanding. Takes more time to figure out what you need.

[@nb9797]

Te correct answer is correct today. Ti one true answer is correct tomorrow too whatever variables occur to change the environment tomorrow, that will come through and remain correct whereas the Te answer may not hold up in different environments

[@SuperCuriouss]

Such a good video!! Also.. Mature (read old) Ti has such a massive scaffolding of logic built up it takes them less than a second to evaluate a Te twig and toss it out... Bloody blasters! 😁