Intrathecal Mesenchymal Stem Cells for MS Randomized Trial (Tisch MS Center)

I previously expressed skepticism about whether stem cells could treat MS. This video reviews a randomized trial on intrathecal mesenchymal stem cells for progressive MS done at the Tisch MS center in New York.
Selected Sources:
Efficacy of intrathecal mesenchymal stem cell-neural progenitor therapy in progressive MS: results from a phase II, randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38783...
Clinical safety of intrathecal administration of mesenchymal stromal cell-derived neural progenitors in multiple sclerosis: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27727...
X squared calculator: www.socscistatistics.com/test...
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Dr. Brandon Beaber is a board-certified neurologist with subspecialty training in multiple sclerosis and other immunological diseases of the nervous system. He is a partner in the Southern California Permanente Medical Group and practices in Downey, California (South Los Angeles). He has several publications on MS epidemiology and has participated in clinical trials for MS therapeutics. You can follow him on twitter @Brandon_Beaber where he regularly posts about MS news and research.
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Music: INNER GRACE - Copyright 2018 Wilton Vought Source: Really Really Free Music Link: • Video T
he video material by Dr. Brandon Beaber is general educational material on health conditions and is not intended to be used by viewers to diagnose or treat any individual's medical condition. Specifically, this material is not a substitute for individualized diagnostic and treatment advice by a qualified medical/health practitioner, licensed in your jurisdiction, who has access to the relevant information available from diagnostic testing, medical interviews, and a physical examination. To the extent that Dr. Beaber endorses any lifestyle change, behavioral intervention, or supplements, the viewer should consult with a qualified healthcare professional to determine the safety and efficacy of the intervention in light of their individualized information.

[@MaiC-]

I've never clicked on a video so fast!! Thank you Dr. Beaber for your openness and consideration to different options ❤

[@shammys1903]

I really admire your consistent efforts for giving this valuable knowledge. Keep doing this definitely you will explore the best and something special about this area in future.

[@stonz42]

Thanks for sharing this data. My mother in law and a family friend began treatment at TISCH over 20 years ago, but have since found local neurologists. NYC is at least an hour and a half train ride for us (on a good transit day). I agree with you on the results. As a spinal tap veteran, I would not be willing to subject myself to 10 taps unless these results were more significant. However, if I had severe disability I'd probably be willing to try anything. Not much to lose in that case.

[@DrBrandonBeaber]

I can understand this perspective.

[@Jerusalem_Warrior]

You couldn't get ME to receive a treatment involving spinal taps to save my LIFE. I refused a urodynamic test on the grounds that "I don't like the protocol on that one". They're lucky they got me onto the Ocravus, and between us - besides, of course, not to minimize, a stable MRI - that's not helping either. 😔

[@thres34]

This is the issue with ms - you never know what to do

[@kevinobrien436]

They're lucky or your lucky ? It all depends on your disease and maybe even your prognosis ! Desperate people do desperate things !

[@Jerusalem_Warrior]

Happy with the Ocravus, disappointed from the PIRA (= Progress Irrespective of Disease Activity)

[@timothycarter9208]

My wife has gotten significantly worse with Ocrevus. Neurologist doesn’t seem to notice cause lesions are stable 😂

[@Jerusalem_Warrior]

@@timothycarter9208 That's it. But I was getting significantly worse WITHOUT Ocravus too, so it can't be a bad thing if at least my lesions are stable. And my MOOD and my attitude have improved a great deal, which is not to be taken for granted! 🙏

[@grantmartin2002]

Hey doctor, do you accept pateints? If so, what is your typical wait time? You are by far the most intelligent and knowledgable neurologist ive come accross.

[@mturner8506]

Thank you to one of the GREATEST Neurologist ever!!!

[@DrBrandonBeaber]

I don't know about that but I'll take the compliment

[@laurenlouth5276]

I was incredibly eager to listen to your interpretation of this trials results. I was hoping your analysis would be a little more optimistic based on the results. As a patient with SPMS I feel as though being a part of a trial like this is a win win, with the benefits certainly outweighing the risks.

[@megan.0718]

Could you do a video for RRMS people that have failed all the drugs (high JC titer, low 53 bpm heart rate, got uc symptoms from kesimpta, sick from abagio) the only drug left is mavenclad, which scares me. When would something like this or other alternative treatments be available for the rest of us?

[@victoriaorsson3037]

I was a patient there for ten years. I was treated very well by the staff and doctors. I was not selected to be a part of the trial (I believe the patients selected were from Dr. Sadiq's patient roster only.. no medicare people $?). Of course, as a patient with progressive disease I would take any opportunity to participate if even there was a possibility for the distant chance at getting any improvement. You’re basically a vegetable with a vocabulary at this point, what have you got to lose? I appreciate they are great efforts, it’s unfortunate. The results are lackluster. I read a recent article about stem cell treatment securing people from HIV. The way healthcare works we are living longer, but are we living better?

[@DrBrandonBeaber]

Thanks for sharing.

[@josephvered3991]

Hi from Israel thanks for the update data always waiting to your videos

[@kevindonnelly7475]

Your question at the end is always a pertinent one to anyone with PPMS. Would you participate in phase 3 trial? Personally, I would but not a blinded one. One thing neurologists need to do is put themselves in the shoes of the patient, so to speak. Given the narrow number of DMTs available to PPMS patients you very much feel 'stuck' and you're always wondering when you'll end up in a wheelchair. This means our tolerance for 'risk' might be higher than our neurologist's. So, personally, if the side effects are low risk, I'm happy to try, but I don't want the placebo, I always feel like there's a clock ticking, time is of the essence. I often think of the study Dr. Giavonnoni did where subcutaneous cladribine showed a very positive effect in patients with PPMS. I'd try it in a heartbeat, today. But good luck finding a doc who'd let you try off label.

[@DrBrandonBeaber]

I understand this, though an open label trial would be useless from a scientific perspective. We would learn nothing about whether the treatment works or doesn't. Of course I would not fault you for wanting the treatment.

[@demoskunk]

​@DrBrandonBeaber Would an open label trial of a drug that is so effective at repairing spinal cord damage, that a wheelchair-bound person is able to walk again, not be scientifically useful? No amount of placebo affect would be able to achieve such a result, no?

[@kevindonnelly7475]

​@@DrBrandonBeaber I hear ya, fear not, but that is the dilemma facing PPMS patients specifically. I personally have no disability, I do have mild neuropathy, but that's it, I golf, I work out daily, play the guitar, go work daily.....but the prospect of decline aren't fun. To the point where I'd pay out of pocket to try some things like cladribine off label or even a ahsct- I know it's not terribly effective if you don't have disease activity in the moment, so to speak.

[@DrBrandonBeaber]

@@demoskunk You are right that if the effect size is extremely large (i.e. all participants experience complete reversal of all disability), a randomized trial would not be needed.

[@colleensmith3374]

Dr Beaber - you are the best! We are grateful for your analysis. I would have to know about the stem cells themselves. Are the embryonic fetal tissue cells? I would also have to be pretty desperate to receive that many spinal taps? I steered clear of this even at diagnosis. Thank you again & happy summer

[@lauracarlson9260]

Thank you for giving this an honest review. There are so many with PPMS and Ocrevus just isn't cutting it for them- what other choice do they have? I'm a FB moderator and finally a good video to share with them ;-)

[@desiredecove5815]

Interesting… #Sharingiscaring I think if I were recently diagnosed with ppms- I’d give it a go. Not at this point in my journey tho

[@DrBrandonBeaber]

Understandable

[@timothycarter9208]

Thank you for the information doctor! Pathologist Dr. Alan MacDonald discovered novel tape worm larvae in all ten MS brains he examined. The study and pictures of the slides are available online to view. This was not peer reviewed, but it sure would explain perivenular inflammation in the brain (which proceeds lesions in MS), don’t ya think? I believe all your viewers would enjoy a discussion about this topic, maybe even an interview with Dr. MacDonald? Thanks!!

[@DrBrandonBeaber]

I have worked with neuropathologists and have personally seen brain cuttings in people with demyelinating disease, and I have never seen any sign of a CNS parasite infection. In areas of the world where parasites are prevalent, MS is less common.

[@timothycarter9208]

Thank you for the reply. These novel larvae range from 10 to 300 microns, according to Dr. MacDonald. Do most neuropathologists look at slides that closely (I don’t know). The pet food maker science diet even conducted research and found there to be a slight correlation between lap dog exposure during preadolescence and MS (if I read it correctly). My wife, who has crippling MS, had pinworms as a child like 25% of American children. Maybe no connection, but with hundreds, if not thousands of variations of toxoplasmosis, one can’t help but wonder. To borrow a term from Dr. Boster, “foreign invaders” may be a better term. 😊. Thank you. I Will keep learning as much as possible!

[@EvenSoItIsWell]

Thanks Dr. Beaber! Interesting video. I really enjoy when you break down these studies. Would I participate in a study of this kind? My initial response was “no way!” - 10 spinal taps? Yikes! But, if I had PPMS I might feel differently.

[@DrBrandonBeaber]

Looking at the comments here, it is clear people with more significant disabilities are much more willing to pursue this.

[@olgabraga3214]

What do you think about the insertion of Mesenchimal stem cells via i/v? The collection of those cells from the body’s fat cells? I am thinking about this kind of procedure in a clinic in Germany. I was diagnosed 10 years ago and have an edss of 6,5-7 Thank you!

[@DrBrandonBeaber]

My skepticism of potential stem cell treatments for MS is expressed here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jmTbZXZ3map8nNU

[@olgabraga3214]

Thank you very much!

[@Robin-me8fe]

interesting !

[@sivanmahadevan2458]

Can I get enrolled into this or anyway to get ppms stem cell.my doctor says it can't help

[@mballer]

If there was massive improvements the study might be worth something, but if that were the case they wouldn't need s lot of people in the study and it wouldn't have to be blinded since it would be so obvious. Did these studies equalize vitamin d at a nice level in the upper half of the range and vitamin k2 blood levels along with whatever else is known to help stem cells proliferate and survive? Or did they, (which I would suspect is most likely) ignore the diet and everything else that would be conducive to stem cell longevity? Hyperbaric oxygen stimulates stem cells, why wouldn't they add that to what they're doing to give them the best chance of stem cell survival? Did they include anyone on warfarin? I'm going to take a wild guess here, the subjects in the study had diets that were not conducive to their own stern cells working properly in the first place. Is that the way it was?

[@kevindonnelly7475]

That's something I'd really like people to understand. Diet is beyond important, as is gut function. To try anything drug related or treatment related without eating properly and without making sure your gut is working properly is counter productive. No gluten, no sugar, no 'seed' oils, nothing out of a package and greatly limit alcohol. If you're not doing that you're likely in a constant state of underlying inflammation.

[@demoskunk]

​@@kevindonnelly7475 I've been following that "proper" diet myself for 6 years now, but my PPMS has not gotten better. I'm healthier in every other way, but my walking and right arm just keep getting steadily worse. MS is not greatly affected by diet, unfortunately.

[@demoskunk]

It hasn't been proven that any of those things stimulate oligodendrocyte growth, or that they would work to repair CNS damage in the presence of MS lesions. MSCTs should work on all pwMS, even those who's vitamin D levels are low, just like 90% of the population.

[@donnabolt5847]

How disappointing. I wouldn't undergo all this for slight improvement. But i also don't have ppms. 😢

[@ericag2233]

I agree with you. I wouldn’t enter a phase 3 trial, no way.

[@ernietollar407]

this is different than the umbilical cord cell work of Dr. Riordan. Could you comment on that Dr. Beaber?

[@DrBrandonBeaber]

Do you have a citation I could look at?

[@ernietollar407]

@@DrBrandonBeaber quick google scholar search.. surprise surprise next to nothing. cheerio.

[@suzanneknepp849]

I am trusting your opinion on this trial. I feel that the data isn’t that impressive for me to participate.

[@mballer]

11:33 Vitamin K/K2 deficiency can cause brain shrinkage, is everyone ensured an optimal level by MS doctors?

[@kevindonnelly7475]

And it's more than just doing a serum vit D test. I'll suggest know your B12 and folate levels are also important.

[@mballer]

@@kevindonnelly7475 I didn't mention vitamin d in this comment.

[@demoskunk]

MS disability isn't just from brain shrinkage. My brain volume is unaffected, my vitamin D, k2, and B12 levels are optimal, yet my EDSS is 5.5 and slowly getting worse. In PPMS, the main problem is spinal cord lesions.

[@mballer]

@@demoskunk What is an optimal level of K2? What is your methylmalonic acid level?

[@MrKoshnica]

kudos to them for trying but it's expensive and this is the reason to exist. (my opinion).

[@DrBrandonBeaber]

I'm not sure it's particularly expensive, especially in comparison to MS disease modifying therapies.

[@user-ig3kn2ly2x]

Interesting video. Optimistic, but again, the study at first blush is merely offering Treatment, but Nothing that suggests Causal Factors, which if discovered, could serve to either diminish or perhaps abate the disease itself. Me? The augmented Tinctures, combined with Chinona Bark I am taking as my own guinea pig if you will, appear to be helping Substantially. This Morning, I'm getting up to go to a relative's funeral. Though my balance issue since 2019 persists, as I continue taking the Augmented Tincture I am now using; 2 ounce bottle, Black Walnut, 1 ounce bottle, Wormwood, 1 ounce bottle, Liquid Cloves, 1 ounce, Liquid Stevia, and a pinch of raw Chinona Bark, I'm up and on my feet, and though the pre existing damage exists from disease progression, I'm not doing anything else but That, and I'm feeling like my old self once again. Note: I take the Tincture and the Chinona Bark Three Times per day, as I am seeing Absolutely No Issues or Side Effects whatsoever. Simple! Hope this helps! MDM, JD Candidate Peace ✌️ ❤❤❤

[@demoskunk]

Like I always ask anyone who claims something reversed their MS disability in any way: Do you have RRMS or PPMS?

[@user-ig3kn2ly2x]

@@demoskunk RRMS.

[@user-ig3kn2ly2x]

@@demoskunk See today on KZbin Channel: Pam Bartha at: Live Disease Free. There, I leave my own original research, theories, and treatments I find useful for her in her page. Hope this helps!

[@user-ig3kn2ly2x]

Comment left today for another KZbin Channel on: Remeylination Research. Cc: FYI/FYR: Thank you for posting..My analysis from what I heard, and why her own presentation isn't productive. I'll Explain: Although the Study attempts to discover and discuss, research on better methods of remeyelination in the body, the study, although entertaining, provides little to answer the poweful question: Must One develop MS, experience the onset of symptoms, sufficient to require a structured medical therapy and or treatments due to the 1.) Presence, and 2.) Actual damage taking place within the Spine, the Brain, The Extremities, The Optic Nerve, the portion of the Brain, responsible for Balance Systems, the portion of both The Brain and Spine, responsible for the sense experience of Fatigue, Heat Sensitivity, Spasticity in the Lower / Upper Body Extremities, or perhaps a Better Series of Study, with {Substantial} Proofs of Efficacy, just might be of more and of greater value...? 🤔 Outcomes: Nothing I heard, said One Word concerning the Cause or the Rationale behind the Cause for the Onset of Symptoms. Worse: Because it is Clear, that Damage to either Severed, Destroyed, or Nerves which appear to be ' being consumed, only lead one to one of several conclusions, that MS is cleay being caused, by Either The Permanent Destruction of Nerves; leading to the long-term Decline of neurological function, Due to the as of yet, { non-specific} Biological Agent, which once Introduced within the body, does in fact result in the disease, We lovingly refer to simply as MS. Now: Understanding this, We must ask ourselves: Which particular agent has The Most To Gain, through the either Interaction, or the Manipulation, or possibly, the Direct, Indirect, or perhaps The Consequential Consumption of meyelin, which Now at that point, the speaker's research and future product(s), would be considered helpful. Just saying, but Who wants to spend another 20 Years, ' Chasing Rabbits....? ' 🤔✌️