Intrepid vs Chamonix 4x5 || Super Film Support

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[@NicosPhotographyShow]

I want to clarify that the Intrepid mk3 shown here has more accused issues than a newer mk4, but most of my issues with the camera remain the same on the newer camera. Also I have had commercial relationship with Chamonix in the past (I was the Spain seller with a partner) but its been over a year since I have anything to do in that. Also have had commercial relationship with Intrepid before, this mk3 was payment for the Intrepid Enlarger ad and the mk4 for a series of videos Im working on. So take that into what consideration you might want.

[@greyabram1183]

i guess im asking the wrong place but does someone know of a method to log back into an Instagram account..? I stupidly forgot my account password. I appreciate any assistance you can give me.

[@greyabram1183]

@Francis Casey Thanks so much for your reply. I got to the site through google and im in the hacking process now. Takes quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

[@PedroE1112]

I have always used medium format in its 3 flavors 4.5x6, 6x6 and 6x7. In January 2020 wanted to do LF 4x5 and was not sure if buying an Intrepid or a Chamonix. Then I saw one of your prior videos with the Chamonix and decided to bite the bullet and purchased the Chamonix 45F-2 with no regrets. As a beginner, the Chamonix smoothness in doing the fine adjustments helped me quickly pass the learning curve. Some many things can go wrong with LF cameras that if you are able to eliminate the ones inherent to the camera itself, you will be able to make good pictures faster. Personally I consider the Intrepid to be a good camera as a more economic alternative. The updates the manufacturer is doing will make it a better camera for people in a low budget. Although I always remember my mothers’s saying “ a veces lo barato sale caro”. Thanks Nico, love your show.

[@phillipmurray8848]

Great review Nico. The intrepid is rustic little camera that can take some abuse, but with a little care and some careful adjustment, it can produce stunning images. The only problems that I have had with LF I could have made with any camera, so I will not blame the intrepid. I was so satisfied with the my first 4x5 mkll that I invested in his big brother the 8x10 mkll without any regrets. One caviat I started with film many years ago so returning and advancing to LF was a natural progression. Thanks Nico.

[@scottparis6355]

Absolutely agree. I have a lot of view camera experience, and bought an Intrepid partly out of curiousity and partly to encourage a new producer. The Intrepid works, but as you say, it's a little harder to work with, a little harder to get precisely lined up, especially if you're not entirely comfortable with the process and don't know what's important and what isn't. Another starter camera you should look at is the Chroma 4x5. Roughly the same price as the Intrepid, but has solid stops on all the adjustable parts for initial setup, and I think more solid construction overall. It's made of plexiglass, which sounds weird, but allows greater precision and maybe longer life.

[@wichersham]

I have been looking into 4x5 photography and had this exact question. THANK YOU!!!

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

Glad it was helpful!

[@jaymathews356]

I personally owe a Chamonix 45F2, which is awesome. The built is far superior then the Intrepid!

[@toulcaz31]

Chamonix has also bellows covering from 52 to 395mm. The camera is basically more versatile with, as you mentioned, better design to control the movements.

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

There are many things I left out, I might do a proper comparison (even if they dont have much in common) soon.

[@mathiash5000]

Thank you. I just bought a Chamonix instead of the Intrepid because of this review! The significance of these details aren't really easy to grasp before you have sufficient experience with the format, so this video is really great. Now I just need some film, a lens, filmholder, loupe, dev tank for 4x5, and a new scanner... Gosh.

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

Any help you need you know where to reach out! Good luck with the 4x5 adventure.

[@mathiash5000]

@Soumendranath Baidya Haha! I envy you, but I don't envy making the decision on which lenses to bring to a shoot... Good luck! :-)

[@puppetyr]

I very much agree with the approach of spending a bit more to get the superior tool for the job, especially concerning a process with a learning curve as steep as large format. A pet hate of mine is when something is poorly designed, doesn't function exactly as it should, or features noticeable slop/imprecision; all those wobbles etc on the Intrepid would drive me insane. "Buy cheap, buy twice" as they say. Even setting aside the technical advantages, simply on an emotional level the sheer tactile pleasure and satisfaction that comes from using a well made precision instrument is considerable, and can only encourage its further use.

[@RogerHyam]

Yes you are right but ... I think you over egg the pricing. Looking on their website today an Intrepid 4x5 is £280 (€310?) plus shipping. A new Chamonix 4x5 is €1,390 including shipping. So about €1,000 difference (that is a lot of HP5+ and a hell of a lot of Fomapan). These cameras really are in completely different ballparks. If you have the money and you know you want a wooden field camera then definitely get a Chamonix over an Intrepid. But if you want to dip your toe in the water of 4x5 on a budget the Intrepid is fine just know that it is flimsy. Comparing an Intrepid 4x5 with a MPP or similar these technical cameras are far more complicated to use (in terms of knobs and dials and broken range finders etc) for a beginner than the Intrepid and that may outweigh the difficulty to use due tackiness of the Intrepid. They are also old and you have to be careful you are getting a good one with OK bellows. Decent ones are also hundreds of Euros more than Intrepids - unless you really know what you are looking for in which case you aren't a beginner this conversation doesn't apply! If you want a Toyo or similar you are looking at double or triple Intrepid prices. And all these cameras are going to weigh three or four times as much so you'll need a better, heavier tripod and you'll need to carry both. If you want to do 5x7 or 8x10 the price differentials between Intrepid and Chamonix are even greater. I haven't read the other comments so I'm hoping you're not getting flamed by the Intrepid fan boys and cheered by the Chamonix purchase justifiers! They are both wrong - or right.

[@mathewmccarthy9848]

Hi Nico. You gave folks who are interested in starting 4x5 very good info for them to make a decision for themselves. Can't ask for anything better than that. I'm new to 4x5 and I own the Intrepid Mark IV. It does the job. Now that I've been using it the only thing I don't like is the front locking lever is too fiddle (small issue for me). I looked at the Chamonix 45F-2 but they are sold out.

[@trailimagesphotography6635]

Nico, I would really like to see the comparisons outlined. I have a early rock solid Wista DXIII and bought a later light weight unit from another vendor and found it lacking. The front standard was too flexible. I would say what made me pass on the Chamonix or Intrepid design is the need to move the front standard for various focal length lenses. I realize it helps with weight? issues maybe, but the extra fussing would seem extra trouble to me. Especially in low light & wearing glove-mittens on a cold morning. Maybe you could share some thoughts on that point in the video?....

[@MilliePat]

Very good info, serious newbie, I almost purchased an Intrepid camera but purchased a $400 Graphex Crown instead. It is the same price as a new Intrepid, however, the seller included the lens and sheet film backs.

[@lensman5762]

I agree wholeheartedly with your conclusion. This is the advice that I used to give my friends even with the purchase of 35mm film cameras a long time ago. Lack of experience and insight in the workings of a camera can be the end of the hobby. Disappointing results one after the other due to equipment malfunction can only lead to giving up the hobby in the end.

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

Yeah, a bad first experience usually doesnt make people want to continue.

[@DavidPattonPhotography]

I agree, the issues you stated with the intrepid are good reasons why a beginner would be better off picking a more sturdy camera to learn on. The price is very tempting, you just got to know there are tradeoffs and compromises. Good job on pointing out the compromises.

[@brycepinson8641]

Nico, I bought an Intrepid 4x5 mk4 about a year and a half ago as a first 4x5. You are absolutely correct. There are some issues withe Intrepid that will cost you shots starting out. I learned these things the hard way and it took me a while to figure them out. Even a year and a half later, the back wobble can be an issue. I backpack a lot and shoot landscapes, and I've shot my camera lot in the last year and half. It has broken 3 times from manufacturing defects in that time. Intrepid has been good about supporting it and getting me parts for it. But its still a pain to deal with. Having said that, I've now just found a good deal on a used Wista DX because it was just too frustrating for me. I like the intrepid company and what they are doing, but I think more improvements need to be made. If you are going to use it lightly and have experience, maybe the Intrepid is fine for you. Otherwise my experience tell me you should save up for a new Chamonix or get a legacy name brand camera (the Wista D metal field camera you reviewed for example is probably a better beginner choice for maybe $150 more, and it could save you that in wasted shots).

[@vedostuu]

you are absolutely right! i built myself 5x4 camera and it is not easy for user because of little things. shooting large format is not particularly easy in general and beginners do not need any extra work when shooting..

[@mvr62]

Very good and accurate opinion -- In my opinion. I started by building my own 'Bender' kit camera over 30 years ago and still own one -- cannot go wrong with it if one knows what they are doing.

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

Exactly, you can overcome the limitations with experience to a certain degree. Always wanted a Bender kit for some reason ;)

[@mike747436]

Haven’t used an Intrepid, but I do own a Chamonix. My first 4x5 was a Toyo; built like a tank and almost as heavy, which is why I bought the Chamonix. I think you’re probably right about the chances of more screw-ups on the Intrepid, especially as a beginner.

[@ropersix]

I've owned both, starting with the Intrepid, (v. 3 I think) which turned out to be a piece of junk. It ended up where it belongs--in the trash. It was my first 4x5, and beyond frustrating to try and learn on, while also constantly having to have to do repairs on, too. The screws pull through. One of the lens board screw mounts got stripped and then popped out. The ground glass would pop off and end up in the water. Oh, and it was a little warped and let light in. That was the last straw, and I chucked it, and am now back on track with the Chamonix. It's a joy to use and learn with.

[@JHuntPhotography0]

I hope it isn't that bad. I just got one.

[@ropersix]

@@JHuntPhotography0 I assume the current version is a little better, and it's possible I got a lemon. But check it out for light-tightness first thing. Not the bellows, but around the opening in the back with a film holder seated. Mine let a little light in through there I think, outside when the sun was hitting it just "right." And check all the screws and attachments, and send it back if they don't seem good. Because I really did have to glue two of the tiny screws back into place.

[@BryanBirks]

Negative Grain it’s not. I have one and it works perfectly fine. Would I want a Chamonix over it? Sure but I got the Intrepid used for $250. I think it’s a perfect tool to learn on because you have to pay more attention to it. The only thing I would recommend is getting a fresnel. Helps a lot with the ground glass.

[@fritzlimo]

I made a lot of mistakes with my intrepid, but I only shot cheap Arista 100 and 400. I don't feel ready for color or slide yet. But like you said, for the price the intrepid is very very good. Did you do any finsih on the plywood of your intrepid? mine looks a lot more dull.

[@tgchism]

Very good reasoning for a person new to LF to make a choice! Would you recommend a lens for starting out? Make and size?

[@c.augustin]

For me it's the Intrepid (Mk4) because of the price. As I plan to use it mainly as a pinhole camera, some of the downsides in stability and precision don't matter at all. And for the few cases I want to use a "real" lens - well, thanks for the warnings, I'll keep them in mind … ;-)

[@derekkonigsberg2047]

Its also easy to forget that there are a lot of pieces you need to buy, besides just the camera body itself, to build a complete LF system. And the price (or weight) of all that stuff can easily overwhelm the price (or weight) of the camera itself.

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

Exactly.

[@lensman5762]

I have a Wista Field DX Rosewood and a few lenses. I would however, disagree somewhat with your statement so far as, for a beginner it is best to stick to just one or perhaps two, high quality lenses at most. Learning to shoot 4X5 has a steep curve and a lot of film and time has to be invested in it. In the beginning it is best to keep the money for film, chemicals and processing rather than trying to build a system camera from grounds up.

[@ChrisMarxen]

C45f-2 owner here. If you can afford it, go with the Chamonix. Better user experience and especially faster to set up in case you shoot on location portraits. It feels great when operating and thus is more fun in the long run.

[@andyvan5692]

good points, price is not the only factor, but also if the back wabble is an issue, as it has a graflock back, could you put a 6x6/6x7 roll film back on it, hence remove the issue completely ( using the clips, NOT the springs).

[@FlashbackArrest]

Hey man really awesome comparison. Im thinking of buying an 8x10 Chamonix 🙃

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

You wont regret it, I have the 8x10 and its a great camera.

[@roberthennings]

Great info. How much effect does 1mm have? Im using a 6x12 back on my intrepid and it actually has about a 1mm gap and wobbles a bit. I have problems getting the focus correct, it always seems to be a bit soft. Maybe thats the reason.

[@scottparis6355]

One mm at the focal plane is a LOT! Easily the difference between sharp and not sharp.

[@roberthennings]

That explains it. Thanks. Maybe I can sandpaper it down for a better fit. Brings Nicos point home doesent it.

[@jiml989]

Well said!

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

Thanks Jim!

[@nickfanzo]

I’ve used my intrepid for a year, it works and I like it but it’s a little flimsy and you can feel it. I also feel it can break easily over time, and the movements can be flimsy. It Chamonix looks wonderful, I may try it

[@chilecayenne]

What do you think about the Shen-Hao 4x5 offerings for a beginner?

[@arnaudfaverjon4576]

I did start with a Shenhao, didn't try the Intrepid though, but I actually moved to Chamonix quickly, much sturdier, more refined, everything is just easier (and camera is lighter overall too). I believe Shenhao is a bit in between in terms of quality, good stuff, but for the price point, I don't regret moving to Chamonix.

[@andyvan5692]

also Nicos, one other good camera would be a "bed" or "field" camera, like the linhof, esp. second hand, as in this the bed folds on racks, which the detents are very solid, also any move on it has detents, and stiff locks, even the infinity stops are coloured, so minimising mistakes; one other point the "rear standard" if that's what you can call it, is secured by rods, and lock knobs, so to move it, you have to do it deliberately, the standard is squared by the detent on the beds' hinge assembly, so also easy to operate/see if something has moved.

[@CigarManGarth]

Very interesting, thank you, Sir. As of todays date, the US Dollar difference is about $665. more for the Chamonix. One thing to remember in which Nico knows already, a camera made from a base material of furniture grade plywood is more weather resistant, temperatures resistant and is usually stronger than wood. I think that any disadvantages to the Intrepid would also be a learning curve for the new large format photographer and strengthen their personal abilities in the long run and at $665. difference, I will spend the saved money on film and adventure. My two cents worth anyways!

[@Luudite]

Where did that list of cameras go? Or did I misunderstand what you meant?

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

I didnt have the time. Will update it today.

[@gilbertgr]

@@NicosPhotographyShow Cuando te quede tiempo, estaria buenisimo ver esa lista de camaras, un abrazo!

[@dougthomson5544]

I have an Ebony SV45U2 and it is a masterpiece of craftsmanship. If you want to do 4x5 I suggest you scour the internet for a used Ebony. I also have a Horseman monorail, 😊studio camera that I also love, but the Ebony … it’s gorgeous!

[@okok72277]

From what I understand from this review, just hold the glass of the intrepid down when you're photographing it, or modify it yourself to stop the wobble?

[@rlfsoso]

well, I have started with the Intrepid Mk1 (original Kickstarter) ands I had great fun, but soon got fed up with its lacking build quality, shifting focus when trying to lock it down etc. There was no way for me to afford something better like say a used Wista… did my first funny experiences with it and got decent images… upgraded to an early production Proxima, better in some respects (more precise, faster set up). Huge problems with more modern film holders (Lisco Mark II) would not unlock the dark slide (was solved in later production runs on my instigation), huge problem with tripod mounting point, could not properly affix an arca swiss plate, needed to add a second anchor point to make sure it staid… really bad ground glass, needed to be replaced… less than desirable customer support in my opinion… all in all way too expensive for what it offers. Camera got stolen in a burglary (with all the rest of my LF, MF and 135 gear, including the Intrepid Mk1), so I have no long term experience with it. I did receive a replacement Intrepid Mk3 as a gift for which I am greatful indeed! A bit more refined camera, bit better build quality, needed replacement springs for the ground glass (say wobble!). When our insurance paid up for the heist I finally was able to replace the stolen gear with a Chamonix C45F2 (and 150, 90, 210, tripod, backpack all the stuff you need) and it is a Huuuuge difference. Feels like RollsRoyce compared, definite, precise build quality, excellent ground glass, special features (asymmetric tilt on the back!), bag bellows etc. So if at all possible get a camera which will not needed to be replaced, where a beginner can grow on and does not get frustrated when things donot work mechanically. The learning process takes time and well working tools (nothing fancy) are essential. Good review!

[@haimtoeg]

Get a used Sinar F or Norma for the same price as a new intrepid.

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

Yup, I got my P2 for just a bit more and its my favorite 4x5.

[@seboc1]

Shen Hao PTB45 is very similar to Chamonix. Its cheaper and its made of better wood.

[@josephomalley1526]

If you do not use large format routinely, what the hell are you doing by spouting off about these two cameras ???

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

I do use large format normally, I actually have around 10 4x5s, need to thin the heard.

[@zerihunhailu8922]

Nico, comparing the first gen interpide camera with the most refined camera makes this comparison unfair. The most recent versions of interpide already addressed the issues you mentioned. Officially you have to apologize

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

Zerihun, the Chamonix is not the most refined camera, I would consider the Ebony. But the person asked about the Chamonix vs Intrepid. Then the Intrepid pictured in this video is the mk3, I do comment that they have improved a few things in the next generation, but most of my concerns are still there (I also have a mk4). I dont think my opinions (which is what I do here) need an apology but I appreciate your feedback.

[@toulcaz31]

@zerihun hale Chamonix cameras exist since early 2000. Even after 4 revisions in such a short life, Intrepid still has the limitations Nico is pointing. Nothing has prevented Intrepid to reverse engineer decades of large format cameras to come with a way more mature products. Nico did not even cover the bellows and the control of movements which would have highlighted further limitations. If you are looking for reviewers that will tell you an Intrepid is as good as a Chamonix or an Ebony, look for one made by a blind man or a dishonest one.

[@zerihunhailu8922]

Nico Cazals I think you missed the point. I am not and would not implying that this two cameras are made the same and or interpide is better than chamonix. Both options have values for the targeted users. As a community of photography we have to see the value in various options. We have to free ourselves from fanboy syndrome. I can not compare ebony or ArcaSwiss with chamonix. For what it worth's chamonix is a good useful camera in the face of ebony.

[@toulcaz31]

Zerihun Hailu well I pretty much understand from Nico’s review that Intrepid is a great cheap and light camera for beginners but has limitations that go away if you can pay more for used a Chamonix for instance. What does he have to apologize for?

[@cedarandsound]

The Chamonix costs 5 times as much, there's no debate. Get the Intrepid and work around the quirks.

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

I think there is a big debate, it all depends on the user and also results. Both can take pictures, thats for sure.

[@fangxusun1723]

There is no comparison. Chamonix is way better in all aspects.

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

I agree, but this video was requested by a viewer, thats why I made it. Also it seems to be a popular doubt people have.

[@danielemilazzo432]

gracias pringao!

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

Gracias por el piropo!

[@danielemilazzo432]

Nicos Photography Show que ya sabes que te queremos!!!!!

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

@@danielemilazzo432 yo se que es asi. Pero que pringado a mucha honra, eh!

[@danielemilazzo432]

Nicos Photography Show es una palabra que siempre me ha gustado. En Italia no tenemos palabras así

[@creepyloner1979]

intrepids are cheap because they cut corners. lots of corners. corners that no self-respecting manufacturer would ever cut and that will ruin photos. that's why they market their cameras to total beginners who lack the experience to spot those cut corners. there are soooooo many cameras on the used market that are better and cheaper than intrepids.

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

Thats why I usually recommend them as a crash camera for experienced photographers.

[@TheDIMONART]

Chinese made better than UK...No comments:-)

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

Well, not all Chinese products are bad anymore, just like not all European or other places make the best products. Also price is important, the Intrepid is a third of the Chamonix.

[@TheDIMONART]

@@NicosPhotographyShow Thanks for the answer!! Need some Chamonix factory tour, we don`t know anything about their manufacturing process and founder person:-)

[@NicosPhotographyShow]

@@TheDIMONART i want to do it. I actually have seen a lot of it (not in person) and the owner is an awesome photographer and better person.