INTRODUCING: The Onyx Vesper Hook Flange Hub + BERD Spokes - Building a DREAM WHEEL for Dusty betty

[@hardtailparty]

*CORRECTIONS / CLARIFICATIONS / ADDITIONAL INFO* I misspoke regarding coloring/dying the spokes. I stated that it wasn't possible to dye the spokes after they were tensioned. *THIS IS INCORRECT.* In fact, BERD colors all of their black spoke complete wheels after they are built and tensioned. There is no difference in how the spokes accept the dye in loose or tight spokes. There is no difference in strength between white, black, or otherwise tinted/colored spokes. For those interested in seeing how BERD laces up their spokes to Onyx hook flange hubs, they have a video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q4PNYqWjpNWarKs I noticed that BERD does their 3 cross lacing a little different from me. I laced mine traditionally, where you cross the spoke UNDER the third crossing. Berd keeps it over all three crosses (never under). I'll reach out to them and provide some clarity about whether my traditional 3 cross lacing will pose a problem.

[@berdspokes]

Hello Steve and all of your followers, Rob here! Thank you so much for including Berd in your build, we're super stoked to be a part of this project. You are correct that we now lace our wheels over - over - over, skipping that final under that you see with metal spokes. We made this change over the past year based on some super long term testing where we were seeing some extra wear at that crossing. This testing was simulating a number of cycles that is well beyond what a person would ever subject their wheels to so we are confident that any wheels laced with those spokes crossing from the past will last for a very long time and folks won't actually see any wear. And, as always, if they do have any issues to reach out to us and we'll take good care of them!

[@dustybettymtb]

I love this wheel set! I can't wait to post more about what it's like to ride them. I'm really glad you built these on rims I'm familiar with because it helped me get a better feel for what was the spokes, what was the hubs, what was the rims. Can't wait to talk more about it in a video... 🥳

[@bangaloretrailrider2472]

If you have the dimensions of the hub especially of the hook clearances, I can design a snap on tool in CAD and send in the STL so that you can 3d print it. It has to be iterative so a couple of iterations may be needed before it works well.

[@DonkeysRChaos]

Steve, i just got my Stanton Sherpa. Can't wait to Ride it.

[@hardtailparty]

Congrats!

[@Morpheas001]

It's a good'n. Have one myself

[@jonathangreiner]

Just ordered a set of the new Berd Hawk30 rims with the Onyx hook flange hub. Will go on the Passila Juntu SS!

[@boblatkey7160]

This is so damn cool! I love it. I have the Onyx Vesper hubs and a hill that I have been coasting down for 35 years. I am 100% convinced that my onyx Vesper hubs are the fastest hubs I have ever coasted on down that hill. So cool to specify your own colors, they are like little jewels when they arrive.

[@hardmtnbiker]

I can’t imagine building up Berd Spoke wheels but I was fortunate enough to get some built by Berd Spokes. I went with RaceFace ARC 35 rear and ARC 40, yes aluminum but I wanted the “give” or feel of aluminum with the Berd spokes. I used my Hadley hubs, not as high end as ONYX but great hubs and bomb prof with a Ti free hub. 72 POE and never had issues and rebuilt/replaced bearings and they’re great. I was so impressed, I have another pair of Berd Spoke wheels being built with those ONYX Vesper hook flange hubs. But laced to the DT Swiss XM481 rims. I can’t wait to see how they ride.

[@cliffsangelsphotography]

Nice to see Onyx Vespyr hubs. They're the best

[@darrinkulyk9560]

Definitely Getting Vespers And Berd Spokes For My CF Warden

[@mikestivers8302]

i'd only seen 2 places where amsteel rope was used. camping hammock suspension (my personal exp.) and winch use for offroaders. so i was delighted to see Berd use this dyneema.. still havent seen them in the 'wild' tho.

[@JustSnowglow]

This looks like assembling a trampoline where you need dad-strength to get the last couple springs lol. Love the idea of the hook flange. Also dang, what a color 🤌

[@hardtailparty]

Exactly like assembling the springs on a trampoline, minus the eye injury factor.

[@markifi]

the hub design is genius. the hooks look like boat tie-down points

[@timmcdermott815]

We are building up a custom road bike with a very similar set up, I am super stoked! this combination of berd spokes and onyx hook flange hubs is such a cool option!

[@hardtailparty]

Make sure you check out BERD'S most recent video to see their tricks and tips.too.

[@isaacbrooks5999]

This is bucket list stuff right here. Dream build wheels for sure!

[@shaunroach7829]

Outstanding!!!! So cool to see how these wheels are built up!! Syd and Mackey are racing with them too now!!!! Great job Steve well done explaining and showing us some ways to magiver an easier way to build the wheel!!! This was a great tutorial!!!

[@Gyllbonus]

Wow... What a dream wheelset.

[@adamcvanwinkle]

Arg I wanna try Berd spokes on my ht soooo bad!!!

[@JaggedTusk]

Totally getting Berd wheels for my next set.

[@greg2biggers]

I, too, LOVE my onyx hub

[@trailjockeytj6160]

Everybody always will tell you that rotational weight in your wheels is three times the weight of static as far as propulsion goes, but you described it better, it doesn’t take much to spin up a small 2 inch hub, but a 29 inch wheel takes a lot of torque.

[@Finnspin_unicycles]

Don't get me wrong, light wheels are nice. But it's twice, not three times (some fairly basic physics to prove that it's exactly twice..) and only in acceleration that it has that impact.

[@trailjockeytj6160]

@@Finnspin_unicycles Well the webs telling me 1.6, although my point is if you were to have a lead wheel with an alloy hub at 10 pounds it would take a lot of force or torque to spin that baby, now make the hub lead in the wheel alloy that will combine to the same 10 pounds it’ll take a lot less torque or rotational force to spin that wheel. It has to do with leverage. So a heavy hub isn’t as detrimental as a heavy rim. And not only an acceleration, but deceleration is a big part of where the weight affects rotational force. Then on top of that gyroscopic force is totally different with the weight out further on the wheel. That’s why we have smaller wheels for bigger tricks!

[@pauls3616]

Great video. Looking forward to Dusty Betty’s review. Thanks HP.

[@jordanrhodes]

that is a skill! nice wk.

[@timothyhuber5322]

I'd try rubber bands to hold the spokes on. They'd have to be long enough to go from one side of the hub to the other side

[@jasoniannone9675]

2.6" Dissectors are around 1KG. These wheels are light af. 35mm internal! I have the aluminum S35s. They're ridiculous. I love them.

[@aurisnow]

Pretty cool to see those wheels built. Seems like someone could easily design and 3D print those clips you were talking about to hold the spokes on the hub. Other than that what a nightmare to get the job done!!! Def not for the faint of heart.

[@William.N]

Those hubs look amazing! The color really pops

[@tlheingrunst]

Nice! Interesting to see how far things have progressed over the years. First set of wheels I built were a set of tubular matrix isos in 89. They were a set of bladed wheels at first. Rebuilt and still bulletproof today. Few curbs, chain in spokes etc. Lol obviously a roadie set. But back then we had to start somewhere. Went through baptismal rock in the white mountains AZ in 94 to wash me of my roadie sins lol keep up the great content love it

[@DaBinChe]

Nice. I'm still waiting on my Berd Hawk30 wheels w/Onyx hook flange that I ordered last month.

[@hardtailparty]

It's a brand new product, so it may take a bit to wait for, but I have a feeling it'll be well worth the wait.

[@dkumagai30]

Hey, Steve. I'm about to build a wheelset for a new bike utilizing Berd spokes. I may also use carbon s35 rims. I'm curious if Ibis' published ERD measurement matched your reading. Great video, and thanks in advance.

[@ofacefan]

seems like a good situation for 3d printing some clips to hold them in place

[@casper18795]

I could probably design and print a lockring to hold the spokes on the hub. Just need exact hub dimensions for the spoke interface area.

[@machine7767]

Wonder if you could use some small o rings to hold the spo,especially to the hubs

[@jny78]

Seeing that mess of string would drive me crazy. You definitely have a great eye for details and it shows on how you built those wheels. Great video

[@Steve-nu9op]

cool! thanks!

[@Dedmuus]

I didn't need tape when I did mine. I thought it'd be an issue but it wasn't

[@GHinWI]

Wheel building is to cyclists what fly-tying is to anglers. I definitely want to try a set of Berd spokes.

[@hardtailparty]

100%

[@JuggernautMTB]

Cool video! Really interesting process to lace these. It also shines a white hot spotlight on one immutable fact …… I absolutely do not have the right temperament to build wheels…

[@patrickwhitaker5049]

What would you think about using the Berd spokes with Zipp 3Zero Moto rims?

[@kiznile123]

This build is so freaking cool. Well done! I've been fascinated by these spokes for a while and that onyx hub is absolutely 🔥

[@hardtailparty]

Thanks Kyle. You'd love these. I wish all my hubs could be onyx.

[@cellphonenut]

One of the sickest wheel build I’ve ever witnessed absolutely amazing set 👏👏💯💯✅✅✅💵💵💵💵

[@tuftschristopher]

Wonder if those little orthodontic rubber bands would be good to hold the spokes on the hooks

[@johnharrison6522]

You don't have to be sensitive to feel the vibration dampening of Berd spokes either. They really smooth out the ride.

[@ssmtb]

Great video Steve! It's really cool to see a hub brand like Onyx designed a hub shell around Berd spokes! Has Berd mentioned any additional brands that may design their hubs specifically for Berd spokes? Ps. While I love the idea behind light & supple wheels I'm always weary of proprietary components, I wonder if in the far future these kind of spokes could become an open standard like j bend

[@berdspokes]

Hello! I don't know about any other hub makers designing their own hook flange hubs but keep an eye on our social channels in the upcoming months about any new news on hook flange hubs! I totally get the hesitation about proprietary components but that's one of the benefits of Berd spokes - there really aren't proprietary parts. You can use standard j-bend or tangential straight pull hubs and any rim that uses a standard nipple. You do need to use specific nipples but they are commonly available. And, if you ever want to go back to metal spokes (tip - you never will want to) you can just take out the Berd spokes and rebuild the wheel.

[@hardtailparty]

I doubt it'll become commonplace like J hooks simply due to the manufacturing costs of these spokes. 95% of riders don't want to pay this price for a spoke. But the ride and weight are pretty incredible. For some people that's worth it, for others it isn't. I've got two sets of atomik wheels with beard spokes and I've never had a single issue with a spoke breaking. That's not to say they can't break, but I'm not worrying about them on a trail ride. I just ride my bike and they work.

[@zap...]

Would berd spoke tension affect compliance or feedback from the wheel?

[@JimT-w7i]

Insane. Way cool info on high end wheel tech. I have two bikes, a full squish and a HT with Onyx Vesper hubs, and they rock. You can't imagine how velvety your steed can be when the "clicking" is gone. Imma wait this technology out and maybe revamp my full squish with BERD spokes.

[@nosegrindv4951]

id love to put these on a set of zipp xplr 101's but the berd spokes dont work with single walled wheels.

[@EarthAmbassador]

Have the same rim/hub combo on order... Minus the shoe laces 😛

[@hardtailparty]

Nice!

[@baddriversofcolga]

It's funny how ridiculous it looks just having limp strings coming out of the hub when you're building them up, but then once it's all together it of course looks totally normal. Anyway, those hubs look awesome! I imagine she's going to love these wheels.

[@hardtailparty]

I felt the same way. It looks so funny before it's laced. Most people would look at this wheel and have no clue it had fiber spokes

[@LemonySnicket-EUC]

Tension is tension.

[@nicholashines7686]

I owned these rims on my Ripmo and they by far have been my favorite. I want this exact same wheel set. I am not a wheel builder and I do not want to build it myself. Do you have a builder you could recommend that could build this exact will set

[@hardtailparty]

Berd can build you wheels

[@duanehundley]

Did Onyx get rid of the initial sponge feel from the vespers? I have a set from 2020 and the sponge feel makes it difficult to climb technical features. I still have them on the bike because I like the silence. I’m 6’6” 230lbs too so they might only feel this way for heavier riders?

[@Silverhaze78]

They should supply small rubber bands or something similar. Maybe bread twist ties

[@kalijasin]

Berd spokes are made of Ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene (UHMWPE).

[@sandswan]

Great vid. Where the Betty review at?

[@hardtailparty]

She's going to be filming it fairly soon

[@ShadLife]

You and I agree light wheels are the best upgrade. I also like lighter tires, although where you ride I get why durability is needed. Fun build! These look like some really cool wheels!

[@zap...]

What's the weight limit for this hub and spoke setup? Would this setup work for bike packing?

[@hardtailparty]

I can't imagine the weight limit of this wheel be any less than with steel spikes. Id reach out to onyx and berd directly to answer the question of weight limits. I'd have no concerns using this bike packing.

[@davewallace9048]

Did you upgrade to the ceramic bearings on the Vesper? I did on my wheel build, and they are definitely noticeably faster while not pedaling after break in!!

[@hardtailparty]

Vesper surprised us and send this hub with ceramic bearings. How long did yours take to break in? I feel like all my onyx hubs roll noticeably faster than any other hub, even without ceramic bearings.

[@davewallace9048]

They definitely take a month to break in. It will become noticeable when they spin forever!!

[@matiasdelacalle2485]

Many thanks for the video! My only concern is that Onyx procudes the hook hub only in the Vesper version, and I'm afraid they're not strong, long lasting enough on my bikepacking set, reaching 27 Kg in a loaded bike, plus my 75 kg. The classic version would be the best chioice, but they don't come with hook flange. What do you think??

[@hardtailparty]

You can have Berd and other companies lace you up a wheel with any hub, including the classic onyx. Personally, for a bikepacking rig, I'd go classic. My classic has been flawless for 7 years.

[@tommyr95]

Great stuff, Steve! Question: From a weight perspective, aluminum rims with Berd spokes or carbon rims with standard spokes? Interested in your thoughts.

[@hardtailparty]

I can't really answer that, because to me the most important part of a wheel isn't overall weight.

[@otbcyclery1459]

The tape was a solid idea! I ended up only lacing the high tension side before moving on to the low tension side so there wasn't a spaghetti mess everywhere. I used the park tool WH-1 to hold the hub and then started the lacing process on the high tension side. Once I got 2 spokes on at 12 and 6 o clock the weight of the wheel held enough tension downward to keep the spokes from coming off. I also laced mine traditionally. Has Berd said anything negative about lacing them that way?

[@hardtailparty]

I haven't heard back. They do the third cross UNDER, they keep it on top. I assume this is to reduce abrasion, which makes sense. I wonder how it changes the feel go not cross under

[@otbcyclery1459]

@@hardtailparty I'm curious as to what they will say, I have customers riding them that way right now so hopefully it is nothing to detrimental.

[@danwebber9494]

With a steel spoke you gain a lot of lateral stiffness crossing them, with such a flexible material there might not be any gain. I really want to try them!

[@hardtailparty]

@@danwebber9494 BERD replied to my pinned comment at the top. Check it out.

[@hubsessed]

After watching the tutorial that Berd did, they said to not cross the spokes like a traditional wheel. I noticed that you crossed yours spokes on the last cross. Any reason why?

[@hardtailparty]

See the pinned comment at the top of this page.

[@GokkunGuru]

Are these hubs made to only accept berd spokes? All other hubs require drilling in order to accept berd, thus making the hubs not compatible with traditional spokes down the road.

[@hardtailparty]

Yes

[@ssmtb]

@@hardtailparty I believe j bend hubs require drilling, straight pull don't (they use some sort of adapter that's inserted into the spoke hole)

[@hardtailparty]

@@ssmtb Yes. It's a process that if you don't get it right, you may end up cutting your spokes. This hub design prevents user error regarding hub prep.

[@ssmtb]

@@hardtailparty yea very cool, will be great to see if more hub brands get on board (dt swiss, i9, ck, etc)

[@estelja]

Is there any chance of the loop coming off the flange hook during de-tensioning upon jump impacts? Asking for a 200lb friend, of course.

[@hardtailparty]

Great question. When riding along, spokes see less tension at the bottom of the wheel (6 o'clock) but we're talking minute differences here, not 1cm at a time. If spokes got that loose, we'd be seeing metal spokes push through rim strips and rim tape on jumps. at least that's my.logoc.

[@stolencoats63]

IDEA: Just came up with this in my head so not sure it would work but seems like it would. Use tiny rubber bands (like ones used with braces) around each spoke. Hook a spoke to the hub, slide a rubber band down the spoke, stretch it around the hook the spoke is on and then stretch it over its neighboring hook. The spoke cannot come off the hook since it's banded in now. Once enough spokes are on and a little tension is applied, you just snip the rubber bands off (can't just slide them off since the spokes are now attached to the rim). I hope you can visualize this.

[@stolencoats63]

Can probably use one rubber band around 2 spokes. Put on a leading and trailing pair of spokes (like you did in this vid) and slide one band down both spokes and then hook band around their two respective hooks on the hub.

[@hardtailparty]

@@stolencoats63 I dig that idea!

[@jornmulder]

do you know the spoke tensions on a ebike MTX39 rim/wheel with 2000w motor? or anybody els ?

[@מלכהגוטהלף]

Great build. Do the Onyx require more maintenance/greasing then regular hubs ?

[@hardtailparty]

No, not in my experience, but I live in a dry climate. Bearings are sealed on most high end hubs, including these, so the only grease you'd need to potentially monitor/maintain would be in the sprag clutch. I haven't touched the grease in my 7 year old classic hub. The only thing I've had to do on that job is ensure the preload is adjusted when I swap it from one bike to another.

[@ggcadc]

"youll see more animals"

[@qualm43]

Is that the $300 truing stand? I'm using the recession "twisty ties on my seatstay" version

[@hardtailparty]

It's more than $300 these days sadly.

[@qualm43]

neat.

[@bansheeparadox2678]

How about berd spokes on zipp3 moto

[@franciscocabral7104]

Honey spokes to your ride is it a 24 or 32 I spokes wheels

[@hardtailparty]

This is a 32h wheel

[@ninjazzrhythm400]

I cant wait until aliexpress get a hold of this and copy it, then that's when I'll buy it 1000% cheaper.

[@hardtailparty]

And the original designers won't get any of that revenue. Copies/clones don't pay the right people. It removes all incentive to be innovative.

[@noahmeineke]

holy Toledo.. 500$ for 64 spokes. thats bananas

[@hardtailparty]

Yup, you know the saying: cheap, light and strong, pick two. This is bleeding edge technology, they're half the weight of regular spokes, and they offer a smooth ride feel. I'd argue that it's more noticeable than going from GX to x01 or pike select to pike ultimate, or fox rhythm 34 to factory grip 2. It's not cheap, but I feel it's a better investment with a more noticeable difference than most upgrades people spend money on

[@vashusan1984]

Casually has 5dev Cranks and Absolut black chain rings on the workbench.

[@stevenkilleen8149]

My weakness building wheels

[@GokkunGuru]

Once the spokes are laced onto the hub, it looks like Bob Marley

[@hardtailparty]

So true!

[@matthemason7918]

My onyx vesper hubs are like my chain is made of elastic they feel really spongy under high torque. I wouldn't Go with them again very poor.

[@hardtailparty]

They're not supposed to feel like that. It's worth seeing if yours are covered under warranty. Early vespers had issues, and they made some tweaks. The classics definitely don't feel spongy to me

[@JustSnowglow]

Weight weenies ❎ Moment of inertia weenies ✅

[@hardtailparty]

Comment of the day!

[@bartmullin8018]

The concept looks interesting but, until it is more proven and accepted by a majority of the mainstream bike/bike component companies, I'll stick with tried & true (pardon the pun) 110 year old technology that hasn't failed me yet. I'm not volunteering to be some company's R&D guinea pig; been there, done that, and learned that sticking to what's proven (in the motorcycle and bike world; much cross-pollination..!) or has had at Least 5 years on the market is the safer/more budget-friendly bet. (Been riding since '89; seen a Lot of trends/fads/gadfly ideas come & go...)

[@ericpmoss]

The majority will never accept it, because (a) fiber spokes have a premium price but are not aero, (b) the wheel building machines would need from-scratch re-design, (c) it takes 2-3 days to build a wheel by a very skilled builder. That doesn't mean they are "unproven" in the normal sense. Those cords are crazy strong, as demonstrated by their use in ship towing cables. BERD spokes themselves have been proven over several years. The hubs aren't a big issue, given that Onyx as a brand is trusted, and the connection just needs more metal, the amount known according to formulas. If this model of hub doesn't pan out due to some fatique issue in the hooks, one can still use the standard models.

[@chubsound]

Did you just mention a woman's weight on the internet? I hope your couch is comfy... LOL 😂

[@jasonkroll2735]

Install spokes to rim ..then lasso the spokes to the hub last , then tighten?

[@hardtailparty]

There's not nearly enough slack to skip them over. Even threading the nipples in two more threads makes it extremely difficult to lace the last few. Since these spokes stretch eventually, they feel almost too short before they're tensioned. They're not stretchy like rubber bands, they more like a very stiff Paracord.