Inventor Claims His New Gadget Solves Accuracy Problems

[@backfire]

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[@m4rvinmartian]

*No offense man. "Title lock" is a scam. It protects against something that statistically, doesn't happen.* *Do some research before you keep advertising for them.*

[@leonhart2452]

I live in a home not worth stealing from me. Out in the boonies on a tiny lot and an old house trailer.

[@alantewebdesign]

just so you know, more shots will give you a much better idea of the actual group. you would be amazed how many "flyers" turn into a trend.

[@damienthomas6655]

So it's basically the same as an EC tuner???!!!!

[@bretnmannn]

being a gun nut and reloader for 40 years this device needs to be used on the 2moa rifles????!!!

[@PolenarTactical]

Very interesting video, my only gripe is with 3 shot groupings - these are statistically closer to random luck than actual indicator of rifle accuracy. I think this is also the reason for such big variance in the group sizes. 5 shot groups are a better representation of what the rifle is or isn't capable but for a test like this i think you should go up to 10 rounds. Yes, i know, ammo is not cheap but bigger groupings would actually give us statistically relevant results

[@otterconnor942]

Eh, 10x3 vs 3x10 groups still have 30 shots, and statistics want as large of sample sizes as possible. With these thin barrels that are only meant to shoot a couple shots on a hunt, the heat will skew results that you wouldn't see for the use case the rifle was designed for.

[@calvinfitty3451]

True, of one 3 shot group by itself. But, a bunch of 3 shot groups will tell the story.

[@jeffreyyoung4104]

When I bought my 1903 Springfield rifle, I always shot ten round groups to see the results of temperature rise, and normally, I would shoot less than one inch groups with a hand held rifle on a table, not a vice mounted rifle as some do for 'accuracy testing', as I wanted to see MY ability as well.

[@PolenarTactical]

@ that's not how statistics works This is also why shooting multiple 3 shot groupings always gives you such big variance in group size. If he shot multiple 5 shot groups the groups would be quite larger but more consistent size from group to group

[@otterconnor942]

@@PolenarTactical it's undeniable that a hunting rifle is designed for 1 maybe 2 shots before you have to walk a ways to shoot again. If we are still using my 30 shot example, the ideal situation is that we're shooting in an underground bunker with the rifle mounted to a large adjustable sled, and very slow firing a 30rd group. So that every shot is a cold bore shot and every shot is tracked by a computer. But by shooting 3rd groups with this unscientific test, there's less mess happening with the results between shots from wind and heat. We can also still measure point of impact changes and paint a full 30rd picture, which is probably why you are saying larger groups are better, because most people don't measure the point of impact changes between groups. By separating the 3 shot strings into their own groups, there's information to glean from that data that is obscured by 5 or 10 shot groups. But a 30 round sample size is still a 30 round sample size.

[@tboy3006]

I think it was really cool you gave this guy a chance to show his product. And it looked like it was worth it. Cool concept

[@mclt8883]

Agreed. Maybe a monthly Video Templete ???

[@0Asterite0]

not enough shots to confirm the thing works. i'd bet it does nothing

[@streamhiker868]

if that system is about controlling the vibration, i had a Browning with the BOSS system that did that some 20 years ago...

[@pistolgrips]

@0Asterite0 It absolutely performed as intended in these tests with these rifles and these cartridges. Even given the limited number of test shots the statistics are clear. The science - the physics - behind the device is elementary. The device simply dampens vibrations resulting in more uniform barrel harmonics. With more research and development this could become “a thing“ for some applications. Had they taken the human element out of the equation and had the rifle in a vice I bet there would’ve been significantly more improvement in the groups. Do you like to run your mouth because you need to feed your ego? Are you the self designated expert today? Do you feel better about yourself now?

[@0Asterite0]

@@pistolgrips cool story bro. nothing was proven. not with the small amount of rounds shot. but you sound like you chug snake oil, so here's a bridge you'd love to buy

[@etherealswordsman3214]

assuming you can find people willing to pay their own fare, or just willing to send their thing out (maybe with some ammo?), more tests like this would be rad to see

[@gregrob20]

Browning did this a long time ago and it's actually adjustable. It's called the B.O.S.S. Ballistic Optimizing Shooting System. You can tune it to "time" the waves of the barrel. Erik Cortina also makes ones that follows a similar concept - the EC Tuner brake.

[@markalex3866]

The B.O.S.S. Works…need tuning time but was loud

[@kentonsassmann1859]

@@markalex3866 Besides time you also need lots of the exact same ammo!

[@cheatinggravity173]

This is is not like the boss. It is not a tuner, it is a muzzle squeezer.

[@kylejheard91]

Yeah the EC Tuner has been debunked by Applied Ballistics.

[@cheatinggravity173]

@@kylejheard91 I like Eric but the guy puts out so much misinformation/ disinformation about his reloading practices, basically saying he doesn't follow hardly any of the meticulous practices alot of the bench rest shooters do, so that he can say his good results are due to his products. When I saw his vid of him doing some sloppy reloading for a match, I knew there was a bs artist at work. I tried the boss tuner years ago, and wasted alot of ammo chasing my tail. You might get more 3 shot groups that are smaller, but the groups are all over the place. So if you take your pet setting that seems to make smaller 3 shot groups, then shoot a 20 shot group, it's exactly the same size as not having one. Furthermore, first round shot consistency wasn't as good (maybe because of the brake, which I think magnifies slight charge weight differences)

[@JJ-iu5hl]

And just like that, you increased the number of new product emails in your inbox by 10x

[@clinkerclint]

In his book The Art of Rimfire Accuracy, Bill Calfee talks about slugging all of his barrel blanks, and finding tight spots. He would cut the barrel at the tight spot and make the tight spot the muzzle. Bill made some of the most accurate .22s on earth.

[@michaeldalbis4631]

What is slugging please?

[@clinkerclint]

@@michaeldalbis4631 driving a soft lead slug down a barrel. You can find tight spots and inconsistencies. It's also a way of measuring bore diameter.

[@quarterminutemagnums]

Been saying - and doing - this for years.

[@clinkerclint]

@quarterminutemagnums Hey man! I recently found your channel and really enjoy it!

[@cymanca]

Fascinating test but I am always puzzled why the source of greatest error, human, is not eliminated through the use of a locking or clamping device to more accurately reproduce succeeding shots The film industry piloted the steady cam , why not a similar device for weapons?

[@madmat990]

Yeah, that's an ER collet. Used in milling machine tool holders for end mills and drills and such.

[@ShaneBabb]

Yep, I have a CNC machine. Looked very similar to those.

[@MrMadeinthe80s]

I was going to say the same thing. Looks like a collet to me.

[@graycenmashburn3]

Said the same thing to myself when I saw that. Pretty cool use case!

[@Stubones999]

Now BATF will want you to register your collets!

[@madmat990]

@@Stubones999 LMAO! "It has slots in it, it's a suppressor, OMG!!!"

[@Chris-te7uk]

Barrel harmonics is settled science. Your barrel vibrates like a guitar string when fired, and whips from side to side, and or up and down from the pressure wave. You want the projectile to exit the muzzle at the exact point of one of the extremes (the point at which the barrel whip slows to a stop, and starts to return in the opposite direction). For this split second, the barrel is motionless, until it starts to swing the other way. This is why you have accuracy nodes when working up a hand load. You get closer and closer to one of these "accuracy nodes". There are all kinds of various designs of barrel tuners on the market...and they DO work.

[@Chris-te7uk]

Just to give a better visual of what I'm talking about...imagine throwing a ball straight up into the air. It is going to start slowing down until at some point, it stops completely, and then starts to fall back down. The point at which the ball slows to a stop, is when you want your projectile to exit the muzzle. Hope this helps somebody.

[@mrs.vasquezz]

I don't believe you

[@markfergerson2145]

@@mrs.vasquezzGo right ahead and don’t believe, extreme high speed video shows it clearly.

[@markfergerson2145]

There’s also “breathing mode” in which the barrel diameter changes slightly, and unevenly along the length of the barrel if it’s tapered. But yes, the point is to force the muzzle to be a node of all of the modes of vibration. (A node is where the excursion is zero.) Adding a lot of mass to the muzzle is a very basic way to do this. If the makers of this device have access to tungsten they can make it perform even better without making it larger, but at the expense of making the gun front-heavy. As in all such things there will be treadeoffs.

[@Chris-te7uk]

@@markfergerson2145 It's not about the weight. It's about timing. It's about timing the exit of the projectile to match one of the "extremes" of the vibration. Adding weight whether it's just a little bit, or a lot, changes the frequency of the vibration. That's why they call it a "tuner". You are tuning the vibration to match the projectiles exit.

[@tman3831]

Barrel weights or muzzle weights have been around as accurizers for a long time. Idk if squeezing a collet down on a barrel would do anything. But hanging that weight off the barrel is well known to change the harmonics of a barrel and at times help with dispersion and at times stringing

[@romain.lacroix]

You can also put a bayonet on the muzzle and poke holes in it. URSS actually did it on Mosins in the 70s and competed hard with the FR-F1 for the 1st place in ”friendly” military target competition. If I remember well, US asked for a changement of rules and ban of certain rifles...

[@gordondelacroix253]

​​@@romain.lacroixit wasn't in the 70's. It didn't compete with the frf1 either It was from 1947 to 1957 that the Russian were dominating in the 300 3 position international rifle shooting. Back in the day you had to shoot a standard issue rifle, but the bayonet use wasn't planned in the rule set, so the Russian modified their beyonets to get more accuracy. Not only by doing what you said, but by sharpening them and by compressing into the barrel via a Big screw going through the socket. In 1957 these restrictions were changed to basically the rules of today : rifle limited to 5 kilos, 3 pound trigger and peep sight. So you could get a built in tunner instead of these kinds of tricks.

[@romain.lacroix]

@gordondelacroix253 I’m pretty sure I heard this story in the Prouteau interview by Ian McCollum on Forgotten Weapons. I surely shortcut the story and mix, but then the Mosin way lead the path for the FR-F1. For the barrel compressing, I was unaware of it and I have hard time to understand the effect on harmonics or heat shift...

[@gordondelacroix253]

@romain.lacroix Well the "full version" is from a letter dated february 27th 1973 from mister Jean Fournier... Which was one of the most influencial people on the frf1 project ! If you want a good document about barrel harmonics, I recommend the article by captain P. Quayle in the 1st of January 1927 issue of the American rifleman. You can find it archived for free on the net.

[@Mrcaffinebean]

I had the same thought, but I have to imagine this guy tried that first. Would be easy to test.

[@richwood8650]

You don't have to guess where the center of each hole is. Just measure from inside to outside of holes and have same measurement of center to center.

[@fjb4932]

Few, very few understand this concept. Some go in the opposite direction, as in measuring from outside to outside and then calculating a subtraction of the bullet diameter. I'm suspiciously convinced there are even those trying to infuse the earth's corellius effect into the equation to confalute it even more . . . ☆

[@6point5by55]

Yeah, edge to edge is more accurate when it comes to groups.

[@fjb4932]

@6point5by55 , I'm not sold on "... more accurate..." . Either it's a accurate, or it's not. Kind of like a "near miss". It's either a hit, or a miss . . . ☆

[@RTmadnesstoo]

Even easier is measure a single bullet hole then reset the caliper to zero. Now you can measure edge to edge but get the center to center value.

[@ShastaBean]

@@RTmadnesstoo ^ this - more precisely though...set the caliper to the caliber of the bullet and then zero it (hole-size can sometimes be misleading depending on the bullet & paper being used)....then measure the outsides, as you suggest...and that's your true group-size. Extremely useful, even necessary, when the group is stacked and impossible to know where the centers are and can't do any inside/outside measuring.

[@FragrantVagrant69]

So glad your channel is doing well. For those of us that stayed behind in SEO land it is amazing to see you perform even better than the niche site days - keep killing it!

[@approachingtarget.4503]

Since I was introduced to barrel harmonics. I have equipped my tools with something similar. Acting as both a squeeze and a dampener. It works with thin barrels. As rifles increase in price. Most will also have a far superior barrel. The better a device like this works, the worse the barrel of that platform is. Same practice high-end automobile racing has been used for engine harmonic balancing. First ones used a rubber ring. The second variation used internal rubber ball bearing. The latest dampener is fluid filled. I repeated that onto my rifles. It worked. Next phase is to build in a fluid dampener with open cavities to help reduce recoil at the same time as taming barrel harmonics. 1/4" groups out of a TC compass with over 1000 rounds through it. The accuracy is in the barrel and action....period.

[@RFF308]

Action in what way, which part?

[@1980Baldeagle]

And ammunition. That needs to be consistent as well.

[@prone_wolf8871]

​@RFF308 you have lots of reading to do....

[@prone_wolf8871]

The saying is bullets,barrels,and brass...... but should be ....fire control...barrels...bullets ...brass

[@PaulM-d7k]

It's a tunable harmonic damper. I had a Mini 14 Ranch rifle that had one straight from the factory. It really works.

[@ericb.4358]

Hmmm... Browning used to have a BOSS brake that was MICROMETER style adjustable. I had one on my former 300 Win Mag. Browning A-Bolt and it DID improve the accuracy of ANY factory ammo I tried, sometimes amazingly so.

[@jason200912]

Why the hell they discontinue it

[@tommymorgan9926]

Ericb, I have a BOSS on a Browing A-Bolt II. I was able to get it to tune loads between 1-1.5” but couldn’t get sub MOA with just the BOSS. I bedded the rifle in a new stock and it has now recently become a sub MOA rifle after 25 years of struggling with it. The BOSs definitely works on my rifle, but I did have more that one issue besides poor harmonics negatively effecting bullet consistency. That factory stock had to go.

[@ericb.4358]

@@tommymorgan9926 Yeah, I had a gunsmith bed my A-Bolt with MARINE-TEX B/C I liked its ability to always withstand water. After doing it he liked it too.

[@dbuckner902010]

Good fair test and good on you for bringing someone on the channel and giving it a try that’s how we become better shooters and understanding our rifles

[@anthonyburke5656]

The”thing” is a “harmonics dampener”. You can achieve the same result by fine tuning the barrel length AND by carving the barrel to cut the harmonics by cutting the material that propagates the wave harmonics (that also has the effect of lightening the barrel).

[@daviddemand6856]

Bartlein barrels has resolved all my accuracy issues.

[@quarterminutemagnums]

Excellent.................

[@tylers.4506]

​@quarterminutemagnums Where did you get that rifle building for dummies book again? Need to send it out to the so called "Rifle Manufacturers"

[@ronws2007]

I am reminded of the Hornady podcast about whether or not tuners help. A suppressor or a muzzle tuner will improve groups but they could not tell if adjusting the values on the tuner was helping anything. The improvement by tuner, regardless of setting, was indistinguishable from just a suppressor or even a brake.

[@EtherFox]

It's weird when people phrase these data points in the way you are. If suppressors didn't have tax stamps, and brakes didn't significantly increase side blast, you'd have a sterile point. But, conversely, without a tax stamp and all the NFA tap dance bs, or without being a douche to your shooting friends and while being able to be used in neutered States. If it is stupid and works, it ain't stupid.

[@ronws2007]

@@EtherFox Those are not my "data points," they are from the Hornady podcast that I will link. Also, I think what you are saying, though phrased oddly for me, is that if it were not for the NFA, which I had not mentioned, then more people would get a suppressor and also have better accuracy from having a weighted object on the barrel. Which almost agrees with the point I shared from Hornady. kzbin.info/www/bejne/morcg56wisaoqJo

[@jnasty_og1641]

A lot of people talking about this already being invented and fair enough. Just want to say I have never seen anything like this before so thank you for having him on the channel and thank you to the commentators who mention the BOSS and tuning systems already out there.

[@albundy7459]

It hasn’t been invented before or he would be sued for copyright infringement. There is something different which makes it a different product. The only thing that’s the same is the concept.

[@imaflymydroneatit]

That piece is called a collet, it's used in cncs Edit: Cool. I wasnt around 70 years ago when steam engines were a thing.

[@chipsterb4946]

😜 I was just about to type the same thing.

[@TheStig505]

Looks like a TG75

[@gonerydin4225]

Predates CNC machines by several decades.

[@machiningcoolstuff9124]

And manual machines, way before cncs....

[@chipsterb4946]

@@machiningcoolstuff9124 I was thinking “steam engines probably had collets somewhere inside.”

[@GaryShaver-mx5sj]

Specifically an EC tuner Break. Which has worked well for me, and reduces recoil

[@brucepaxton2471]

You would call that a collet.

[@John-uo1qf]

It's just a barrel tuner.

[@mclt8883]

You recognized that also !! Its a collet.

[@jolkraeremeark6949]

It's a Whatya Collet.

[@rickvann3489]

The BOSS system worked people gripped because of noise they made a CR BOSS it is basically a harmonic barrel tuner. All you had to do is take the recommended sweet spot go in or out and see where your groups went and simply adjust. Box factory ammo shot as good as hand loads it shot 3 shot groups all touching.

[@tripplebeards3427]

To help you measure your groups, a little bit better just measure from the inside edge to the outside edge from the farthest two shots. Saves guessing on where the middle is on both of them.

[@kyhermit]

That is a good idea, I never thought about doing that.

[@54Rocketeer]

Engineers method

[@338Alphadog]

That’s how a carpenter finds center of studs. Anything he needs to center. Not amazing, common sense and experience

[@savagefury69]

Don't forget to then subtract the diameter of the bullet

[@tripplebeards3427]

@@savagefury69 that would be incorrect

[@douggolde7582]

Think of a gun barrel as a transmission line and the expansion wave as an impulse signal. When the expansion wave hits the end of the barrel it stacks up to twice the original intensity and reflects back. This device is basically a termination impedance.

[@df302]

That's an interesting way to think about the operating principle. Though I doubt it's a helpful analogy for most.

[@timx1733]

Kind of...but what really makes it work is the weight. Adding a 1 lb weight to the end of a hunting rifle barrel is a no go.

[@Chris-x8g1m]

Great video. This inventor came to the right channel. Backfire will hit million subscribers soon!!!! Keep it up and keep it honest!

[@tripplebeards3427]

That patriot is hilarious. I used to blame it on bedding for accuracy issues on most my rifles. I had a Remington 35 Whelen that wouldn’t shoot better than 1.5 MOA with several ladder tests. Alot groups were 3.5” plus. I slugged my barrel and it was in the large size at .358” . All my other 35 cal rifles slug at .357”. Thrn I meaured all my “claimed” .358 diameter projectiles. my Barnes TSX tipped. They were .357” . The .358” Norma 250 grain projectiles were undersized at .3565”. My Hornady 200 grain projectiles were also undersized ar .3565/.357”! They all were sent back to the manufacturers and replaced in the last few months with the correct .358” diameter projectiles. I had the same issue with 180 grain Speer a few years back. They were oversized at .3595 to .363” and crushing my case necks when trying to set them. After I received the replacement Speers that were the correct diameter my first three, three shot groups I shot measured .3” to .4” at 100 yards with a random starting load to just recheck my zero!

[@timx1733]

Interesting experiences. I have not seen such variances in 30 cal or less bullets.

[@tripplebeards3427]

@@timx1733 the only variance I’ve seen is in Barnes bullets over the years. I’ve had/have .243 and .308 XLC and TSX both undersized by a thousand’s diameter. Accuracy was horrible with the 243 in 2 guns. Couldn’t even hit a 4’ target at 100 yards. Fifty yards I had 2’ groups. The .308 TSX averaged 4 to 6 inch groups at 100 yards. The best groups I’ve got. With the undersized .358 and .308 Barnes were 1.5” and that wasn’t consistent.

[@timx1733]

@ interesting…my xbolt in 243 often shoots 3 shot cloverleaves @ 100 with 85gr TSXs running about 3200fps. But sometimes 1” groups with 2 touching. I may start measuring diameters just to see if there are variances. Funny, that xbolt shoot 1 ragged hole with Federal Lue Bo’s 100gr SPs and 85gr HPs. But i don’t shoot much factory ammo.

[@tripplebeards3427]

@@timx1733 I’ve had that too with several ladder tests. I don’t know what causes that but I just rule that group out and keep working up and down the ladder. Some suggested that the bullet started crooked when seating I don’t believe that. It’s probably more due to diameter variance. I don’t really worry about the bullet weight, but the diameter variance opens my groups up. Don’t think most measure the ODs.

[@aaron8937]

3 shot groups tell you nothing. Backfire is very data driven, they should know this.

[@uzbekistanimale]

As they've shown in the video they are shooting enough groups to get to the desired confidence interval... If you don't know anything about stat you should stop regurgitating that phrase

[@Ithaca1937]

I agree and that reminds me of this video I saw a while ago: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gITbo2x3faqFldU

[@auggiedog5]

It works as a harmonic damper Like on a racing engine !!! I have never had my best shots from a tripod, use a soft front rest and your shots will be much better!

[@willbibbee338]

One of My gunsmithing instructors had some solid reasoning on why this works for cheaper rifles. Most cheaper barrels are thinner and button rifled and have bad or no stress relief. So when they cut threads on the muzzle after rifling they inadvertently release some stress around the crown of the barrel. He measures that with a gauge pin test just like this guy suggests. This happens to make the end of the muzzle open up so squeezing it back should really help. But it’s honestly just fixing something that the manufacturers did to it in order to put those threads on a barrel that thin with poor heat treat and stress relief in the first place.

[@careycustomrifle]

Great test. There is always room for improvement with any product. Just a note, I have more than a few suppressors, every one will change the group size on any rifle I have, to the better I might add.

[@imthedisturbedone]

Clamp on muzzle brakes kinda give the same results i have found. I use the KahnTrol muzzle brakes and they have definitely improved my rifles accuracy

[@Tmgarrison1]

It’s just another form of a barrel tuner that is huuuuge. Glad you gave the guy a chance to show his product.

[@russr]

a tuner works by "moving" the harmonic node of the barrel... this will have "some" of that effect due to its weight, but the big effect is the tightening of the bore at the end... some custom barrel makers will do this by hand lapping a barrel and doing it less at the muzzle, "taper lapping". this can be shown with pin gauges. this is why the best barrels are cut rifled. they dont have the stress issues that cause the "trumpeting" at the end of the bore like others.

[@meetim6271]

It's just system to add mass to the end of the barrel to modify the dynamic response. It doesn't 'squeeze down' the barrel tip as such.

[@redline870]

What did I learn from this video? 3 shot groups are useless for analyzing accuracy

[@henrykfu]

Graph indicated 5 shot groups but the video only shows 3 shot groups.

[@geofforick7870]

Ruger had one similar on a Target Mini 14. Limbsaver or someone else had a tuning rubber that slipped over the barrel and was slid up and down to tune the harmonic frequency of a load. This is what hand loading does when you change a 10th of a grain in the powder charge. Factory ammo is just whatever it is and this is for that. A hand load optimized in a rifle will probably not be improved much by any tuning device as it has already been done with the load charge, bullet off the lands measurement and fire formed brass that is just neck sized. Reloading isn't to save money, it's to make the best ammo for YOUR rifle!

[@johnb3685]

Statistical significance would be at least 3 10 shot groups. Preferably 5 to 10, 10 shot groups. 3 shot groups dont count. Neat that you gave him a chance though.

[@Maine307]

key word "prototype". the willingness to continue to improve and try. i say, they got the right idea. dont giv eup and see where you can take it.. maybe it will work out.. i like it when people care and want to ta make things better.. maybe in 2 yrs, this will be the " end all be all".. i bet he apreciates you allowing him to test it, with out bias.. i bet he got good results to continue his work.. great video..

[@FellerCraftsman440]

If you have a lapped barrel, with a uniform bore diameter all the way down it, this probably won't work. The collet is tightening the bore at the muzzle, so the bullet is fully engaged in the rifling just before it exists, and won't have as much chance to yaw as it comes out.

[@NeglegentDischarge]

You should do more of these humoring inventors. Give them a shot at free advertising at the consequence of genuine testing

[@ShastaBean]

If trying to be precise (as evidenced by reading numbers to the 1/1000) set the caliper to the caliber of the bullet and then zero it...then measure the outside-to-outside of the whole group...and that's your true group-size. Extremely useful, even necessary, when the group is stacked which makes it impossible to know where the centers really are and can't do any inside-to-outside measuring.

[@E1337Jerk]

Now I'm just gonna say it you always do a great job and get a large data set. I know I know ammo time ect boys these numbers arnt just 5% you have some real improvement on sub par and just om guns. Would love to see more data. Just based on what we can see I can see the potential. You got grandad old 06 that's killed more deer and elk than open day in Iowa, but she's old getting tired and not what she use to be slap this bad boy on and take 1.8 inch group to something usable out side 75 yards. Great work as always hats off to Mr Fitz

[@sambrose1]

I think the thicker the barrel the less effect it will have. 1 because the already massive barrel doesn't whip and open as much. 2 it will take inversely more strength to close the barrel. 0.500 steel will take 4 times more force than 0.250 to move.

[@thomasdaum1927]

Is it possible that the Mossburg has a scope or rings or base issue ? Have you tried putting another scope on it ? Is the barrel touching the forend somewhere ? Hard to believe it shoots that bad . With the groups jumping around that much it seams like something is loose somewhere . Thanks for doing the test .

[@jonarnett3018]

The fact that you are shooting a crappy scope and your rear scope ring isn’t all the way on the rail says a lot. Oh and title lock scripted sales is telling also lol 😂

[@stuartmarkman769]

Does the barrel need too be threaded too use the device?

[@atfsux]

Sounds like another variant of the harmonic balancer concept. I remember having a Browning A-Bolt with their BOSS device that functioned by different processes, but achieved essentially the same result of tuning to the specific ammo. But this seems much more adaptable to a wider range of rifles and doesn't require tuning to each and every loading.

[@clinkerclint]

Is it the collet or is it the weight? Both? Would be cool to see the same test run again but with a suppressor vs naked.

[@MrGsteele]

A barrel, when a round is fired through it, oscillates. It is anchored at the receiver end, and free to "swing" at the muzzle end. It behaves in a manner characteristic of what is called a "cantilevered beam," swinging back and forth; some high-speed camera videos show this barrel movement at the moment of firing. The accuracy effect you experienced is the result not of barrel compression, but rather the presence of a heavy weight at the end of the barrel. This weight has two effects: 1) it damps the barrel oscillation, which is always present in a "cantilevered beam" when it is subjected to a displacing force, by virtue of the greater mass causing a smaller AMPLITUDE of displacement of the muzzle in response to the applied force from firing the weapon, and 2) it "tunes" the oscillation such that at the moment the bullet exits the muzzle, the RATE of lateral displacement of the muzzle is at a minimum. The end - the muzzle - of that oscillating beam (the barrel), vibrating, obviously goes through a sinusoidal velocity swing; at the maximum velocity, a bullet exiting the muzzle is thrown off-axis more than when the muzzle has stopped and is preparing to move back the other way. At that point, the barrel does not impart a lateral velocity to the exiting bullet, throwing it off the line to the target. Note that the bull barrels commonly used in benchrest competitions likewise damp the oscillations by virtue of both stiffness and added mass, to eliminate to the greatest extent possible the disruptive effect of barrel vibration on accuracy. These things have been used by benchrest shooters for ages - some adjust like calipers, forward and back, so that the oscillation characteristics can be tuned to the load being fired.

[@congerthomas1812]

My first question is how many rounds before it needs tuning? I believe lapping the barrel would be cheaper and longer lasting.

[@YourSoundStudios]

Is the barrel resonance issue that this device seeks to address also why some rifle barrels are larger at the end?

[@michael.klavers]

I have a 1-6x24 Leica with l4a reticle on my 308. I went this way as my range would always be within 200m and the option to go to 1x allowed me to use it for stalking as a red dot only sight. Also it kept my rifle complete at about 2.7kg

[@davidstuck2866]

so, have you tried a limb saver barrel deresonator? I have to wonder is just how much better the gun would shoot with just adding a weight on the end of the barrel.

[@cjrodriguez34]

Keyword: Baseline. Heavier barrels help control vibration by keeping harmonic waves smaller, thicker and shorter barrels will usually cancel/reduce any benefits of this device, as they are naturally more accurate. Now for pencil/lightweight barrels, this could be a game changer (without factoring heat or other inconsistencies, which degrade accuracy).

[@Lacquerhead-TX]

Thanks for that! Always interesting to see new-ish ideas tested.

[@TheGreatWhiteNorth1]

I think the harmonics thing is only in effect when you have an irregularly machined barrel. I have purchased and sold, hand loaded for, and shot somewhere near 100 guns in my life, and a few things stood out amongst all the manufacturers ive owned: Certain manufacturers ALWAYS had incredible accuracy no matter the barrel profile, or the stock type. Most notably was CZ. Pencil, bull, tapered, long, short cheap plastic stock, wood stock, chassis...every CZ shot holes in holes. That leads me to believe it was how they machined their barrels. I was told, with no source i could find, that the inner bore slightly tapers to the muzzle, and as such, squeezes the bullet tighter, until its the smallest at exit. Where other manufacturers with looser tolerances might have a high point in the middle of the barrel, and when the bullet gets squeezed past that, is now "loose" going out the muzzle. This unit seems to me like it forces the muzzle tighter into a cone, so its not really related to harmonics, but it "chokes" the bullet upon exit.

[@masonl.8859]

I have a browning A-bolt with the BOSS tuner on it. It works very well. I’m able to tune different loads down to sub moa.

[@bdbeats7209]

This is a really interesting device and concept. It's crazy how many things obscure things can become variables in the accuracy of a firearm.

[@benjaminpitre5353]

Extremely neat concept. I hope it pans out for this guy.

[@timx1733]

It won't.

[@darrick1395]

Have you tried other scopes on that rifle. Made sure nothing is contacting the barrel inside the stock? Is the action torqued in the stock. The point of impact shift and erratic groups would make me think that something mechanical is wrong. Do you have a video in the archives of shooting this rifle when you got it? I will look back and see if I can find that video. Thanks for the content!

[@Timberdam]

So i'm not an Engineer or Physicist but your explanation was correct ! Barrels vibrate like a tuning fork, The thinner the barrel the more vibration . This is why a heavier barrel is usu more accurate, less vibration ! Different loads have different barrel Harmonics That's why people Handload ! So it's a " HARMONIC DAMPENER " Cortina has a EZ TUNER and Browning had a BOSS ! Interesting Concept ! Seems to help !

[@jamiecarter9357]

There has been a ton of statistically significant work done on this type of tech with large groups... like 30 to 100 rounds. Watch Hornady's episode on "Your Groups are too Small." 3 shot groups don't mean a damned thing and 5 to 10 shot groups don't mean all that much in terms of statistical significance. If the groups were fired at a single target, the composite group with the point of impact shift would be much less impressive, I'd guess.

[@narref04]

"The Harmonizer" Device looks like it worked beautifully. i think that looking at slightly bigger groups (5/8/or even 10) and also going with a sled to remove as much user variance as possible

[@ritchiewalker6194]

That little steel thing that has slits in it is called a Collet, there used for holding milling cutter in a holder in a metal mill also to grip dowels that need to be removed with a slide hammer

[@curteaton]

When do we look at the Tikka Ace stock?

[@shooterscott]

Pretty cool concept and really cool that they are pushing the envelope.

[@codywalker2927]

3 round groups, aren't groups.

[@jeffhutchins7048]

Very common to cut and crown a barrel at a tight point in the bore. They always shoot best there. SOUND engineering.

[@RTmadnesstoo]

It's called a 'Collet'. Your welcome. How much of the change is just from the weight changing the harmonics of the barrel. Percentage-wise, that weight at the end is quite large 'forcing' a node on the standing wave, basically stabilizing the point of exit.

[@robs4517]

According to the military, that much variance in shots is caused by the shooter, not the equipment.

[@Real_YODA_Man]

@backfire very interesting. For true statistical comparison, run a test of the same rifles and same ammo but with an equivalent mass attached to the end of the barrel. Additional mass effects the vibration/dynamic behavior of a beam (the barrel is essentially a cantilevered beam)

[@lenbaker3559]

The weight on the end of the barrel dampens the vibration osolations. The longer the barrel the lower the frequency, like a tuning fork.

[@cjr4497]

I have 1 Simms barrel deresonater on my 17 hmr and 2 deresonaters on my 700 Mountain Rifle in 280 Remington. They helped tremendously. I can actually squirrel hunt with fmj's out of my 17 and the 280 is no longer picky. It shoots Barnes TTSX 1/2 moa. Shit works. I am not surprised this thing works

[@southhalltreeservice]

Love my dad's handded down threw inheritance, citations Custom made .280rem.

[@jefflemaster2850]

Didn’t Browning have a similar design? The Accu-Tune or something?

[@floridadad2817]

This would explain part of why accuracy improves with a suppressor. You have a nut compressing the muzzle and more mass up there.

[@HappyHunter-l4z]

Would removing a little from the length of the barrel and cutting a target type crown help accuracy without the device?

[@consentofthegoverned5145]

Glad to see someone using Mean, SD and p-values- A 3x larger sample size would likely get you well above a 95% CI.

[@WillLeviMarshall]

I believe that most thinner barrels shoot better with a weight on the end I don’t thing the barrel restriction does anything. This would explain the zero effect on heavier profile barrels.

[@bassetthound2008]

My guess on what's happening is that most of these high runner inexpensive hunting rifles are button rifled. Button rifling has a tendency to flare out the rifling at the end of the barrel. This device brings the muzzle back down to the land diameter spec and that's why it makes it shoot better. My guess is a thicker barrel that is done by a competent gunsmith will not see much improvement due to the difference in the manufacturing processes. That's my best guess based on a few years in the engineering field.

[@StuninRub]

Nope, the flared out part would have been cut off, most barrels off the line is not to size. A 26 inch barrel for instance, comes from 30 inch stock that has been cut to size.

[@kathrynleaser5093]

I agree with the button rifling.

[@waldgeist3234]

Actually, a good button rifled barrel is often more accurate than hammer forged barrels.

[@jigyko]

Yes, correct. We turn bbls and any bbl that has any stress in it will bell mouth at the thread or even when profiling to a thinner dimension. We use the highest quality buttoned blanks and we see a couple tenths at most. If you’re looking for upmost chance at precision we always suggest a larger muzzle thread.

[@StuninRub]

@@jigyko That's a load of shit.

[@mythos000000025]

It kinda reminds me of an offshoot of the teludyne tech barrel technology...or the falkor defense dracos barrel(licensed from). Yes squeezing the barrel to tighten the seal will help velocity but I'm not sure the added weight is reducing barrel harmonics..could be wrong though.

[@timx1733]

I think it's the opposite...the 1 lb weight is dampening harmonics a little. Problem is, different loads produce different harmonics, so being just a weight doesn't work universally for different ammo.

[@blackbeard0323]

It's a harmonic dampener, is the same concept as the weight hanging off the end of a palma barrel or the same reason you get accuracy when a suppressor is added. They used to machine the barrels heavy at the end back in the day to provide more harmonic consistency. Old tech idea, new toy.

[@Provocateur3]

That steel item shown at ≈ 2:00 is a collet. It's used in machine shops, usually in a lathe.

[@drifterbbb3649]

It is a TG 75 collet. They are used largely in milling machine tool holders, but lathes can use them too, usually in the form of a straight shank collet chuck.

[@MarvinTurner-oc4ml]

This looks like a new type of barrel tuner that works a little differently but achieves the same result as the other barrel tuners on the market. The others are selling quite well so I think this one will sell once he has it ready to distribute.

[@lukeclement1981]

Very cool concept. So we can conclude that thinner profile barrel are easier manipulate with a “muzzle force multiplier” Funny thing I used to have a a 22-250 with a browning boss

[@nicholasnapier2684]

So why are you trying to control barrel whip is that what that device is going to do from the compression which it throws the barrel around?

[@PrecisionRifleNetwork]

Thanks for the vid Jim. So it's basically a tuner but not called a tuner? "What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet." - Shakespeare. Tuner, dampener, whatever you call it, it's just manipulating barrel harmonics. (aka a tuner) Tuners in general will not work on straight or heavy taper barrels.

[@timx1733]

It's not even a tuner, it's just a weight.

[@mrmidnight32]

This video is a perfect example of why 3 shot groups don’t show you anything. And why most places require a 5 shot group before they will annotate how accurate a rifle actually is. Any gun can shoot a small 3 shot group randomly. A accurate rifle will shoot small 5 shot groups consistently.

[@kendallsmith8144]

I feel like this has great potential to be the attachment mechanism for suppressors and muzzle brakes.

[@sombojoe]

Is this different that the regular “tuner” barrel attachments that are commonly used in precision rimfire matches?

[@randomconstructions4513]

I think this probably has to do with mostly lowering the fundamental frequency of the barrel harmonics, and a little bit of whatever improved precision of the end of the barrel gets from the squeeze. I would have preferred to see larger groups and then had a standard deviation value taken off of those for a more accurate comparison.

[@montana375cheytac]

I think you should test this with, without, and suppressed and see if it's the weight or the actual device improving the accuracy.

[@mrmcbeth]

What's the difference between this and a tuner?

[@matttravis6364]

Hello Jim, I was wondering what is the caliber of your Howa 1500 that shoots poorly. I have one in 300 Win Mag and I am struggling to find a bullet and load that it likes. It is frustrating to say the least.

[@reapercarl5047]

Its crazzy to me that it acturaly worked, an if your taking 1 shot any improvment to acuracy is what you need, of course multible shots multible targets or a need to be quiter might outway it but i would defo want 1 as a option

[@thomasfrederikdreyer]

Would a muzzle tuner not be better?

[@cato7669]

This is why I love this channel 👏 that was very interesting and impressive 😁

[@SDGLFDNC]

That looks like it would be fairly easy to manufacture. A collet is easy to make or find. I may try this as a barrel adapter for my 10/22.