Ireland vs New Zealand | The Preview Show | Andrew Trimble & Ruaidhri O'Connor

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Irish Independent

Irish Independent

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 191
@RossoVerdeNero
@RossoVerdeNero 5 күн бұрын
I just love Andrew Trimble. Put his heart and soul into every game, whether for Ulster or Ireland. His dry humour is brilliant, a typical Ulsterman. He was not always on the winning side, but if not, it sure as hell wasn't down to any lack of effort on his part. A great player, and great bloke.
@SMacCuUladh
@SMacCuUladh 4 күн бұрын
totally agree, he has a great sense of humour
@straights
@straights 5 күн бұрын
Trimble is an honest to earth "Lad" Delighted to hear his war stories. The guy clearly loves his rugby. Great player, especially during those two 6 nations wins. Looking forward to Friday night. Should be ferocious.
@angusaitchison8378
@angusaitchison8378 4 күн бұрын
I gotta admit as a kiwi I was happy for that Irish win in Chicago. I gotta admit as a kiwi that was the last time I was happy you buggers won against us 🤣🤣🤣
@patrickyoung3503
@patrickyoung3503 4 күн бұрын
Your comment means something to me . We got the monkey off our backs . Joe Smith started Ireland's upwards March & carried on by Andy Farrell . Ireland have truly arrived in the professional era . We still have a small playing base . Our imports have been a great help to what we have achieved so far . It's a long shot to reach the top without a strong playing base .
@Camcolito
@Camcolito 4 күн бұрын
Good one mate 😅, enjoy the game.
@Jay685toa
@Jay685toa 4 күн бұрын
@@patrickyoung3503 its a long way to the top if you wanna rock and roll
@NikkiBikkiNZ
@NikkiBikkiNZ 3 күн бұрын
Ireland still living in the past, “remember when we won in Chicago”, “remember when we won a series in NZ”. It’s time to move on and look forward if you want to win a World Cup and be successful in the way the All Blacks have with the pressure and expectation they have lived with. There needs to be a new standard. It’s much easier to win when you are not expected to and it’s another to win consistently when you have expectation from so many
@davelangrish9676
@davelangrish9676 4 күн бұрын
Kiwi fan here. Really enjoyed watching this 🤜
@wjpmurray
@wjpmurray 5 күн бұрын
Thanks for a great preview. Andrew Trimble is terrific ,
@peterm..6981
@peterm..6981 5 күн бұрын
..0n Yur Bike !! ......................................
@geoffnelson6756
@geoffnelson6756 4 күн бұрын
What a podcast, best I've seen in a long time Andrew Trimble's anecdotes and insights about 2016 were spine chilling, his shock when playing the AB's for the first time, the power and energy from McCaw and Reid which most of us will never experience or fully understand, frightening, he usually displays his dry wit and humour but his understanding of the emotions and mentality of players was incredible.
@eoinh3816
@eoinh3816 5 күн бұрын
When you hear someone say Furlong has been out of form for years and Bealham is just as good, then it is pretty safe to say you’ve found someone who doesn’t understand rugby. Furlongs breakdown work, maul work, defensive collision and scrummaging is all at another level to Bealham. Thankfully Ireland have picked a big back 5 to cover the loss of Tadgh.
@tvpc3194
@tvpc3194 5 күн бұрын
why did the pick the same back 5 in the last game if furlong was playing ? lol
@eoinh3816
@eoinh3816 4 күн бұрын
My point was more Ireland would struggle with the loss of Furlong more if Beirne was at lock and POM at 6, as then you have an undersized pack.
@danielokeeffe6358
@danielokeeffe6358 5 күн бұрын
Always good to have Trimby on. Great stuff as always Joe.
@thegoat4124
@thegoat4124 4 күн бұрын
Going to be an intersting game! The Irish got pinged in almost every scrum in the WC against the ABs. The scrums will be interesting, as the Irish are coming up against the 2nd best scrum in the world, it's going to be tough!
@nickjohns1192
@nickjohns1192 4 күн бұрын
It's the scrum I'm worried about 🇮🇪
@thegoat4124
@thegoat4124 4 күн бұрын
@nickjohns1192 nah luckily ABs or the Ireland are facing the Boks scrum again this year!👌🏻
@nickjohns1192
@nickjohns1192 4 күн бұрын
@@thegoat4124 porter isn't as good in the scrum as most people think. I personally think he loses his head too often. He has a massive penalty count. Missing furlong is a massive blow
@thegoat4124
@thegoat4124 4 күн бұрын
@nickjohns1192 yea it is mate! Do what the ABs do when their scrum goes backwards, they are very good at getting it out quickly!
@nickjohns1192
@nickjohns1192 4 күн бұрын
@@thegoat4124 we need to learn that. 80% of the time we spend to long at the scrum. We aim to try bulldoze the opponent and get a penalty when we should be playing the ball CJ standard was brilliant and getting it out the bk and trying to steamroll his opposite
@gmac2977
@gmac2977 4 күн бұрын
Irish guys. Heard the expression. Can't have your cake and eat it too. As a South African its clear ABs have been the best team in the world for years. They are humble and have humility overall as a brand. Don't get it twisted from one or two moments.
@washerdryer3466
@washerdryer3466 4 күн бұрын
Oh look its a SA priest delivering internet sermons to an imaginary church of followers. You deranged nutter. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@SMacCuUladh
@SMacCuUladh 4 күн бұрын
It's the brand part I don't trust.
@Camcolito
@Camcolito 4 күн бұрын
It's easy to be humble when you're always winning.
@gmac2977
@gmac2977 4 күн бұрын
@@Camcolito what nonsense.
@bengormley2517
@bengormley2517 5 күн бұрын
Trimble is fab...more pls
@samplecode
@samplecode 5 күн бұрын
Trimble is always good value. Miss his podcast with the Munster chap with the band.
@PB22559
@PB22559 5 күн бұрын
Barry Murphy was commentating on the Munster -ABs 15 match the other day. He's actually a really good pundit for live games, hadn't heard him as main commentator before.
@volleyunit
@volleyunit 5 күн бұрын
Still does one called potholes and penguins on Patreon. Its excellent and weird
@RossoVerdeNero
@RossoVerdeNero 5 күн бұрын
Andrew Trimble was as tough as teak on the pitch, but was equally a highly educated guy who talks sense about more things than rugby. His input is always welcome.
@AcaciaSands
@AcaciaSands 5 күн бұрын
Most Kiwis and Aussies know f all about who plays in the Irish team, or all the other Northern teams...no free games on tv, middle of the night, other side of world, Japan takes our best now. A new World Comp would could change that...North and South getting more exposure to each other...the Sth African involvement shows the gains go both ways.
@IoaneAle
@IoaneAle 5 күн бұрын
Lets be honest here. NZ lead Ireland 32 wins to 5. They have only started winning since Joe Schmit ( Kiwi coach) changed the way that ireland play. It will be a good game, but lets not crow about Ireland dominating NZ when they have only started winning in the last 6 yrs.
@joemoody7440
@joemoody7440 4 күн бұрын
Who's crowing about Ireland dominating NZ?? That would be outrageously idiotic..
@joemoody7440
@joemoody7440 4 күн бұрын
The irfu as an organisation build Ireland into the little machine it is using knowledgeable kiwis to create better structures making use competitive with the big boys and creating a lasting legacy for Irish rugby to keep growing and thriving! Don't bemoan the success of a small nation to create a competitive environment embrace it like most of your national team players they seem to enjoy and relish the competitive edge between the two sides..
@SmcdMcd-d2k
@SmcdMcd-d2k 4 күн бұрын
No one said that
@geoffnelson6756
@geoffnelson6756 4 күн бұрын
They had them beat in 2013, a minor error and good fortune in a retake conversion robbed them of that one, 2016 was the first win that's 8 years, but really 2013 is when Ireland became a real challenge to NZ. Joe Schmitd really helped Ireland, but it was the funding input around 2008 and players like BOD and Sexton driving standards that made the difference.
@Camcolito
@Camcolito 4 күн бұрын
Any time someone opens with "Let's be honest here", you know a load of shite is soon to follow.
@PB22559
@PB22559 5 күн бұрын
Saying 'you're a shit Richie McCaw' was a compliment to McCaw. Most kiwis probably agreed with POM.
@SmcdMcd-d2k
@SmcdMcd-d2k 4 күн бұрын
It’s also a very mild insult
@Camcolito
@Camcolito 4 күн бұрын
Well since McCaw is arguably the best player ever pretty much everyone on earth is just a shit Richie McCaw 😂
@SmcdMcd-d2k
@SmcdMcd-d2k 4 күн бұрын
@ that’s fair
@Dan-e4c5e
@Dan-e4c5e 5 күн бұрын
Andrew "intangible" Trimble. Good lad 😅👍🏼
@kurikino
@kurikino 4 күн бұрын
Good luck to 2 great teams. I shall enjoy the moment
@bickusdickus1224
@bickusdickus1224 5 күн бұрын
Great podcast. Bring on the ABs
@michaelharrison4162
@michaelharrison4162 4 күн бұрын
Trimby is hilarious
@liamwilliams6651
@liamwilliams6651 5 күн бұрын
Tbf the Kiwis are still in their bubble. Whether it is The Breakdown or the Aetoroa podcast. If you ever watch their previews for games, they never do deep dives into their opposition. No names ever get mentioned, they talk very briefly about the opposition and only use their previous games against them as a reference no matter what has happened since then. They just talk about NZ and that is it.
@danmcgivern4057
@danmcgivern4057 5 күн бұрын
No one watches European rugby here in NZ. The games are on in the middle of the night and to be honest no one cares. Even a lot of top level players don't care. Otherwise they wouldn't be choosing to go to Japan to make their coin...
@JohnSmith-wo2fz
@JohnSmith-wo2fz 5 күн бұрын
@@danmcgivern4057 Do you guys ever watch the Japanese league in NZ?
@danmcgivern4057
@danmcgivern4057 5 күн бұрын
@@JohnSmith-wo2fz lol don't be silly
@mierypesado6740
@mierypesado6740 5 күн бұрын
As a kiwi, I'll agree on that. I feel extremely uneducated on global rugby, Irish players etc. outside of the handful of the most famous
@RossoVerdeNero
@RossoVerdeNero 5 күн бұрын
​@@danmcgivern4057if no- one cares in NZ about NH rugby, it just shows a blinkered mindset. Did they care in 2022 when Ireland rocked up and took the series 2-1? Did that burst your bubble?
@aidanmasterson50
@aidanmasterson50 5 күн бұрын
Listening to any of the All Blacks podcast/youtubers, none of the pundits drop Irish player names or talk about Irish threats. I’m not convinced they still know any of our players. They just talk endlessly about themselves.
@joelporter000
@joelporter000 5 күн бұрын
What's with the inferiority complex ? We think Ireland is ranked number one team in the world ... of course we know the great players you have . Stop looking for things to be offended by and enjoy the rugby . Every podcast outside nz goes on about how the all blacks are not as good as 2011 and 2015 teams .. no shit .. but not gonna get my knickers in a twist about it .
@aidanmasterson50
@aidanmasterson50 5 күн бұрын
@ no inferiority complex here. Just an observation.
@tvpc3194
@tvpc3194 5 күн бұрын
@@joelporter000 you seem offended
@bradlewis802
@bradlewis802 5 күн бұрын
Bollocks mate - I work in NZ sports radio and that's all we've talked about this week. How good this Ireland side is and how good their players are. Be honest mate - the Irish are still salty from the quarter-final exit - a week where all Ireland media talked about was themselves and how the All Blacks were passed it.
@Lemonadeorcoke
@Lemonadeorcoke 5 күн бұрын
As an Irishman, I think he has a point. Who fkn cares what they say? They're focused on their rugby like we should be. Oh no, they're not talking about us... who gives a fk. Allblacks have been the best for so many years. Let's focus on how we might be able to replicate that longevity.
@bobmorgan6333
@bobmorgan6333 4 күн бұрын
FFS lads, Sexton has retired, let it go.
@Steph-we8jg
@Steph-we8jg 4 күн бұрын
To be fair rest of podcast analysis excellent 😊
@johnmaguire7361
@johnmaguire7361 4 күн бұрын
Trimple is an interesting guy. They should have him on more often.
@thehipp14
@thehipp14 4 күн бұрын
Andrew Trimble, f*ucking legend!
@MartinCameronHamiltonNZ
@MartinCameronHamiltonNZ 4 күн бұрын
Three things: 1. The All Blacks are re-building; 2. They have been together for 3 months now; 3. They will still have a dagger in their hearts from the losses to Ireland - not just recent ones but going back to Soldiers Field. BEWARE IRELAND. If you're not at the top of your game, you're in for a bad day at the office.
@lizzyhanahoe4197
@lizzyhanahoe4197 5 күн бұрын
Ruaidhri just said it takes less effort for NZ to score a try, that’s how I have seen it over the years. We occasionally get a try like that, but more often it is with several passes, almost there but need more passes etc etc. why is that? Hope that isn’t a silly question but I have often wondered why Ireland make it so difficult for themselves.
@685_Era
@685_Era 4 күн бұрын
The no dickheads policy it means something else within the team as izzy dagg explained. Also can def see how our boys handle the rush defence. Kick.
@kpocinnede6451
@kpocinnede6451 4 күн бұрын
The second 2016 game was the turning point in the relationship of the two nations. A lot of respect for the black jersey was lost by the actions of some players that day, compounded by the referee not taking appropriate action at the time.
@ZO150ZO
@ZO150ZO 4 күн бұрын
think AB will win
@guesswho6925
@guesswho6925 4 күн бұрын
Discipline the key for this one! AB’s Achilles heel! Blacks go without cards for 80 then they win!
@benkay1390
@benkay1390 4 күн бұрын
Interesting that arguably the ABs worst team in 30 years (few would argue with this - stats don’t lie) is even odds away with the greatest Ireland team of all time. Just saying
@SMacCuUladh
@SMacCuUladh 4 күн бұрын
I can argue that the sky is green and it would make as much sense are your comment.
@Camcolito
@Camcolito 4 күн бұрын
Not quite even odds but ABs are always strong. I'd say this Ireland team is very slightly weaker than last year's but it's close.
@stevebarnes8368
@stevebarnes8368 5 күн бұрын
Ah the anniversary of Trimble beating the All Blacks… there may have been another 14 lads starting for Ireland but let’s go past that 😂
@Wordlygez
@Wordlygez 4 күн бұрын
Sorry boys, I feel your missing something. The difference is not humility or X factor. Its just the jumper means more to us. Good luck, looking forward to a cracking game.
@ctorus
@ctorus 4 күн бұрын
No, it's not that either.
@Lesssvav
@Lesssvav 5 күн бұрын
Ireland have zero excuses here. I wonder how they’ll show up!
@dadofchampions
@dadofchampions 5 күн бұрын
All this BS about what Sexton said the AB's are fake humble whatevers......Nah! Every single Kiwi spoke with Reiko when he told Sexton what he did. Why? For the disrespect, petulance, snide and smug sledging Sexton has shown his entire career toward NZ as well what OMahoney said to a personally 'under-fire' Cane not to forget what the Irish team said to the Boks as they shook their hands after beating them in pool play...... Seriously, O'Mahoney would have known the pressure Cane was under at the time he was touring NZ. Every Kiwi was calling for his axing, he wasnt playing his best AND he was struggling against a better Irish loose forward unit on that tour. For O'Mahoney, there was no smashing him on the field and winning BUT showing some support for him off it if in private....., nah! just more of the what we have come to expect of Irish players - personal and self-entitled sledging! This private-school head up own arse attitude and behaviour unfortunately for Irish rugby is now their 'brand' - What the rest of the world thinks of them. For NZ, Ireland is the new England. We might get beat, we might win but one thing is for sure, whoever is playing Ireland is every Kiwis second best team.
@corny165
@corny165 5 күн бұрын
So POM is a bad man because he echoed what NZ'ers were saying about their own captain? How does that even make sense. Why aren't you filled with self loathing so? FWIW I'm not a fan of the distasteful stuff on either side and I agree that the human element for Kane mirrors Sexton's experience. Not nice for either of them. One more thing, what Etzebeth said about Ireland thinking they were already in the final is 100% bollox. Rassie is brilliant for the mind games and that's his fabrication.
@Steph-we8jg
@Steph-we8jg 4 күн бұрын
It's called sportsmanship look it up. What kiwis say about our players upto us. BTW if that's how you see O'Mahony's comments why so upset by Reiko? Can't have it both ways. Jonny was finally honest enough to come out and admit he was a sore loser. Quite liked him in that interview 😊
@Steph-we8jg
@Steph-we8jg 4 күн бұрын
​@@corny165no it wasn't Rassie not Eben who is known as a fierce competitor and a straight up bloke Other boks have also echoed what he said No Irish player has denied it as far as I know.
@corny165
@corny165 4 күн бұрын
@@Steph-we8jg If you believe it and don't see the psychology of trying to get the Irish to bite you're a fool. Simple as.
@joemoody7440
@joemoody7440 4 күн бұрын
You people are hilarious! So incredibly deluded
@Niko7739
@Niko7739 4 күн бұрын
Great balanced arguments by these irish experts! AB’s have x factor by the bucket loads but still need to execute, AB’s by 10. The Irish are a well oiled machine but need yellows which is highly probable to sneak in a win.
@SMacCuUladh
@SMacCuUladh 4 күн бұрын
Need yellows, lol. You mean you guys like to cheat because you can't cope.
@Niko7739
@Niko7739 4 күн бұрын
@ “Stop being a baby, you big baby… baby” Roy Keane :)
@atoms-to-atoms
@atoms-to-atoms 4 күн бұрын
The best games in rugby are when Ireland or France play the All blacks ...Capetown
@tomgreene1843
@tomgreene1843 4 күн бұрын
Should this not be all coloured ?
@elhefe808
@elhefe808 2 күн бұрын
This aged well 😂😂😂
@vesitagoiaega6334
@vesitagoiaega6334 4 күн бұрын
Johnny and your coach cost you the game against the ABs in RWC 1/4 finals. Johnny with 15 minutes to go, did not do anything to inspire the team, apart from passing and passing and passing the ball, hopefully the receiver will do something magical that will win them game. Should have being replaced.❤❤
@Steph-we8jg
@Steph-we8jg 4 күн бұрын
Still think we would have won
@Camcolito
@Camcolito 4 күн бұрын
As an Irish fan, agree 100%. Sexton was running on empty for ages, no matter how good Sexton is, a fresh Crowley is better than an exhausted Sexton. Also Mack Hansen was played when he was clearly injured, leg wrapped up and everything, looked like he just got out of a hospital 😂. Some major blunders from the coaching staff that game...
@guth6839
@guth6839 4 күн бұрын
I think Conan is a loss - He can break locked defences in contrast to other back row options - without that Coombes or Conan Direct carry threat Ireland can be stopped on the gain line for too long a period.
@Edgycoo
@Edgycoo 4 күн бұрын
theres no worries down here in nz. We know the team is clicking and ireland are done.
@Steph-we8jg
@Steph-we8jg 4 күн бұрын
Gotta disagree Ireland seasoned and we're not there yet
@Edgycoo
@Edgycoo 4 күн бұрын
@@Steph-we8jg england just beat ireland so dont underestimate england and dont underestimate how under cooked we were vs the boks and I cant overstate how much ireland are currently overhyped but they are under prepared right now and we will get the upper hand but not by using underhanded methods. We will rise up and click and dominate.
@joemoody7440
@joemoody7440 4 күн бұрын
Find some humility you sausage!
@joemoody7440
@joemoody7440 4 күн бұрын
​@Edgycoo Ireland just beat SA how have you lads got on against them lately ?? Calm yourself down..
@Edgycoo
@Edgycoo 4 күн бұрын
@joemoody7440 Ireland beat a rusty boks team first game up
@cFlats
@cFlats 5 күн бұрын
🐧
@Richie-j5p
@Richie-j5p Күн бұрын
Ruaidhri O'Connor OMG does this excuse for a sports journalist even know rugby exists outside of D4. His contributions are always the same just like the tripe he writes in the Indo, Leinster players this Leinster players that while all the other quality insights he spouts about non Leinster players are based on a few videos he watches of them. Stop spoofing and just say you know nothing about all the other rugby players in this country outside of Leinster.
@thetalentedmrfitz
@thetalentedmrfitz 4 күн бұрын
NZ by at least 20
@SMacCuUladh
@SMacCuUladh 4 күн бұрын
50 at least, 60 sure. I'm gonna put a bet on, NZ by 150 points! Clownfish.
@thetalentedmrfitz
@thetalentedmrfitz 4 күн бұрын
@ Temper, temper! Deep breaths Paddy, deep breaths!
@effyeff
@effyeff 4 күн бұрын
@@thetalentedmrfitz🤣🤣🤣
@SMacCuUladh
@SMacCuUladh 4 күн бұрын
@@thetalentedmrfitz Projecting much?
@thetalentedmrfitz
@thetalentedmrfitz 4 күн бұрын
@@SMacCuUladh Clearly not but you do you angry guy
@Fletcher806
@Fletcher806 4 күн бұрын
Wow. Is it me, or do you Irish have a massive fixation on the ABs humbleness and you guys desperately wanting to be known by name, by your AB opposition? I can't believe these are the talking points for over half of this show. And then there's the usual jab of being "sucker punched" at the RWC. I like many thought the quarters was a 50/50 game and the ABs had a good chance of winning it, and that's what happened. The better team won in the day with everything against. Okay, maybe Ireland were only playing at 89.9%, but that was offset by Mark Talea not playing and two yellow cards. This particular show seems to dwell on the negative and nastiness too much at times. You're the No. 1 team. Be happy with that and the way your team is playing and keep moving forward. In a hundred years time and if roles are reversed, let's check in and ask the "do you know the names of the ABs players" question to the Irish players. This is the same talk as last year and on other Irish sites as well. I think you guys aren't reading the ABs right and you're quietly dismissing them and their abilities. Ireland have good players, but I don't think they're as dominate over the ABs as you guys might think. Most players are evenly matched. Difference will be, match fitness, pace of the game, and individual skill. Ireland need to click quickly and defend tightly. ABs by 20+ for me. They're due.
@washerdryer3466
@washerdryer3466 4 күн бұрын
Wow. The massive NZ fixation on their own self-proclaimed "humility". 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@SMacCuUladh
@SMacCuUladh 4 күн бұрын
It's just you.
@Fletcher806
@Fletcher806 4 күн бұрын
@@washerdryer3466 Wow, somebody's salty...🤷‍♂
@Fletcher806
@Fletcher806 4 күн бұрын
@@SMacCuUladh Oh cool. Thanks, I was beginning to worry. Now I can sit back and enjoying the game Watching Brian O'Dris.., Brian O'Man...umm, Brian and the other Irish backs do battle Cortez, DMac, Barrett, Reiko, Talea, Caleb and Jordan. Paul O'Con, Paul O'Dris... Paul someone will have a great battle with Vai'i and S. Barrett...
@SMacCuUladh
@SMacCuUladh 4 күн бұрын
@@Fletcher806 I think you've had a stroke.
@HairBall-e9g
@HairBall-e9g 5 күн бұрын
did Joe bring the thumbnails with him from OTB ? pure rip off even the logo is in the same spot 😂
@atapene
@atapene 5 күн бұрын
Straight out racist saying howlett would have done his homework but the brown boys would have had no idea. Incredible
@liamwilliams6651
@liamwilliams6651 5 күн бұрын
Jesus it must be a miserable life you live if racism was your take away from that.
@atapene
@atapene 4 күн бұрын
@liamwilliams6651 ...says a racist guy who thinks nothing of casual racism. Sad
@nickjohns1192
@nickjohns1192 4 күн бұрын
I'm pretty sure he said the back boys Say day when softies pull the race card as soon as possible Andrew is probably the furthest thing from a racist it's just your too bloody soft
@SMacCuUladh
@SMacCuUladh 4 күн бұрын
Grow up.
@plutopulp
@plutopulp 4 күн бұрын
They're all blacks.
@michaelflynn5123
@michaelflynn5123 5 күн бұрын
Was a fan of Joe ! Heard him talking about politics yesterday! Knew nothing about! Will have to doubt him on on rugby! If he that I’ll informed about real life
@leonardodavinci7425
@leonardodavinci7425 5 күн бұрын
A fan of the orange man I see?
@gerardbenson1844
@gerardbenson1844 4 күн бұрын
It's going hurt for a while
@SMacCuUladh
@SMacCuUladh 4 күн бұрын
@@leonardodavinci7425 Not a fan of reality, I see.
@Camcolito
@Camcolito 4 күн бұрын
Was never a fan so hearing him talk the same clueless bollox about American politics as the rest of the Irish media was no surprise at all 😂
@SMacCuUladh
@SMacCuUladh 4 күн бұрын
@@Camcolito Well we live in an age of massive propaganda and Newstalk are neck deep in it. I wouldn't be too harsh on Joe for believing what he's told to believe.
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