Iron Man vs. Captain America - The 11-Year Character Arc

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

Hope you enjoyed the video! Which do you think is the best movie in the MCU?

[@prettyclassybear7683]

End game

[@jamesgarrett8833]

Captain America: Civil War

[@amanms1999]

My personal favorite is Endgame. I am not a massive Marvel fan but what they did with Endgame & Infinity war was genuinely amazing. They managed to conclude the whole saga in such a satisfying manner. We've seen other big properties like Star Wars and Game of thrones fail at this aspect

[@thatderp3247]

I love your content, thank you for doing what you do :)

[@ashishiyer1]

pls recommend books that you use for making the videos.

[@albertrr3769]

The tiny little moment in the script that wasn't in the film, where Steve accidentally steps on Peggy's foot while they dance. The last thing Steve said to Peggy before he went into the ice was "I'd hate to step on your-"

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

☝️

[@coooldown8974]

One more example the insane level of continuity and attention to detail in these movies 😮 (here in the script). Nice catch!

[@Zelein]

Oh wauw this makes me kinda upset they didn't put that in

[@darrellchang4942]

This is insane. Especially when you compare it to the Star Wars saga (the sequels)

[@762x69]

that just gave me chills lol

[@JohnnyBRad]

My favorite character growth moment is the back and forth from Avengers: Cap: "You're not the guy to make the sacrifice play, to lay down on a wire and let the other guy crawl over you." Tony: "Everything special about you came out of a bottle." And both of those claims falling flat as Cap is truly special and worthy to wield Mjolnir and Tony makes the ultimate sacrifice for humanity. Man...these are just so good

[@tinashesibeko1]

Most satisfying element of the whole series

[@adde9506]

What's interesting about that exchange is that Cap believes what he is saying, while Tony probably doesn't. Cap is trying to put Tony in his place. Tony is shooting to wound, defensively.

[@VictoryandHope]

What I think is also great about that convo is Tont proves him wrong in that movie. But he also proved him wrong in the first film. Tony was willing to die in his first film. And Steve also established his worth in his own film. Its two people not seeing the other and so much more. I love that scene

[@mzl8643]

Came to write the same thing. Love the films. Love the characters. Love the music, epicness. Love this video✌️

[@bobhobbs4332]

The most AMAZING subtext that runs throughout the films from "MARVELS AVENGERS" TO "CIVIL WAR" is that Tony is JEALOUS of Cap and has been his whole life! It comes out in CIVIL WAR but is grossly underplayed "TONY:Oh? You knew my father? Imaginge that....God I was so jealous of you. If you look back on their meeting in the Avenger you will see the resentment that Tony has against Cap. Its just never blatanly expressed that he jealous of the time and closeness Cap had with his father!

[@TwenteeEight]

A lot of folks say these movies are just bloated crowd pleasers, but fail to realize what they accomplish. An arc that spans +20 movies is something every screenwriter should acknowledge.

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

Agreed!

[@themadtitan7603]

They also seem to fail to realize they're actual thought-provoking MCU movies (Black Panther, Civil War, Endgame and Winter Soilder...) even others offer themes and commentary on the world.

[@themadtitan7603]

@@LessonsfromtheScreenplay Great video analysis, btw.

[@GeneralBulldog54]

MattWillPost I think what the MCU has succeeded in was making an honest to goodness comic adaptation with the event storyline. Basically, take the Marvel Comics concept of their various sagas with seemingly disparate storylines planting the seeds for bigger stories to come with callbacks to previous plot threads. The fact they succeeded in such a global manner is an amazing feat. It makes me wonder what’s to come next now that they have Fantastic Four and the X-Men, itself with amazing plots that coincide through Franklin and Valeria Richards, both mutant and children of these Reed & Sue Richards. How do they deal with mutant registration or, in the current Krakoa storyline where mutants have their own sovereign island nation, how will they deal with their the fact their child is different to the point they have to make that choice of family or safety. A case that only grows when Franklin is endowed with the powers of Phoenix. Really the potential for amazing stories, X-Men vs Inhumans (evolution vs external stimuli), Children of the Atom (which makes sense, Earth just had 3 universal gamma irradiated explosions in Infinite War & Endgame), Project Wide Awake/Weapons + (the project that not only created Wolverine, Deadpool and X-23, but also Captain America, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones and Isaiah Bradley, also could retroactively add in Hulk, Abomination, Winter Soldier and Red Skull) and possibly a genuine Phoenix Saga and Dark Phoenix Saga. I can’t wait.

[@TheTurbanator123]

It's a tv show just high budget

[@bodhisattvaFM]

"He's my friend." "So was I!" Admit it. You just got chills.

[@mish2637]

Omg and in endgame when Tony is ripping into Steve after he gets back from space and he whispers: "No trust, liar." I literally got chills just seeing the pain on Tony's face because this is the first time they've seen each other since their fight happened and it's kind of heartbreaking to see how betrayed Tony feels and how terrible Cap feels about it when you see the guilt and regret on his face. It was a really good scene and their acting was so good.

[@theofrustus3170]

@@mish2637 Hell naw A lab rat is and always will be a lab freaking rat Everything special about him came out of a bottle.

[@mish2637]

@@theofrustus3170 Lol ok then Tony isn't a hero, he's not the one to make the sacrifice play, once a selfish narcissist, always a selfish narcissist. Do you hear how stupid that sounds? Cuz that's pretty much what you just said considering that Tony and Cap literally proved in endgame that both those statements were wrong, he proved that what made him special was his character and heart, he was worthy to wield mjolnir because of his heart and spirit not because he was a super soldier. Plus there's also the fact that there are a bunch of other super soldiers now so being superhuman doesn't even make you special.

[@seandoroja907]

@@theofrustus3170 once a kid always a kid thats your logic

[@devathma]

@@seandoroja907 he's 9,what did u expect

[@kingsleycy3450]

The MCU is smarter than a lot of people give it credit for. Sure some chapters were mediocre, and sure some recons were ass. But its strong main characters keep the direction focused, and the exhilarating payoffs make the journey worth it. I am now beyond tired of cinematic universes, but MCU's infinity saga will always be remembered as a landmark achievement in cinema.

[@dodgyb2001]

Yeah. I mean, even Harry Potter only had 7(8) movies written by one person. The X-men went from pretty great to so-so, and Spider-man's had 2 reboots so far. I've never less than enjoyed the MCU movies, but they managed to tell some amazing stories and linked them together so well, with some amazing character arcs, that you have to admire what they've done just for that.

[@bruhmoment2316]

I doubt it will be the same for phase 4 considering captain marvel is leading

[@blowc1612]

shut up pls you’re just an obvious sexist. Also the next arc will blow everyone’s mind.

[@bruhmoment2316]

@@blowc1612 i dont know if youre joking or not

[@blowc1612]

@@bruhmoment2316 was being factual. You’re a sexist idiot and the next arc will be better than the last one.

[@quocanhnguyen7275]

Meanwhile, Thor: "I'M COMING FOR YOU, NOOBMASTER69"

[@luthegamecat922]

Yeah, Thor has had some great moments but his character arc is practically nonexistent

[@maxim196]

@@luthegamecat922 He should have been the one to snap half of the universe back into existence...such a shame

[@nivaldomonte5441]

Goulactic X specially considering how he blamed himself for not going for the head.

[@Trylena]

@@luthegamecat922 Thor´s arc is about learning he isn't all-powerful and to see the bigger picture. And it isn't finished yet, we have the next movie to see.

[@Extra-dg7uv]

Yeah, they've really just turned Thor into a joke at this point. I get that people thought he was too serious in Phase 1 and 2, but they've taken it too far in the other direction now imo. Thor is just an incompetent clown who exists solely to look ridiculous and artificially inject extra comedy into these movies. And given that Natalie Portman is going to be be hogging the limelight in the next Thor movie, I can only see this getting worse...

[@PaperPatriot]

Another note on balance. Thanos was convinced that what he was doing was bringing balance to the universe, and he wins. But by the end he was set on destroying everything, where he loses as Tony and Cap bring balance to their lives. Loved the video!

[@deskryptic]

Great point! Thanos became more of himself thru the arc. He went from someone broken hearted tyrant to death incarnate

[@Napoleonic_S]

that was different thanos though...

[@goji253]

@@Napoleonic_S It was technically the same Thanos (In a way at least, let's not get into how Time Travel in Endgame is basically just travelling to parallel versions of your past and future) but at an earlier stage in his character arc and with knowledge of the future he should not have. It really makes me wonder what, aside from his journey in infinity war, happened between 2014 and Infinity War for him to have become who he was.

[@Nomad-1993]

@@goji253 He lost Gamora's loyalty. Maybe after that he realized an error in his ways🤷. Or maybe he just became lost in trying to carry out a goal that seemed unreachable unless he had the gems.

[@danic_c]

@@goji253 Personally, I think that there was no change. They are the exact same person, and the only difference between 2018 Thanos and 2014 Thanos is that: 1. 2014 Thanos was shown direct evidence that his plan wouldn't actually work, and that all he did was create massive amounts of misery that lead people to want to revert his decision at all costs, and that seriously hurt his ego and that whole "holy warrior who can see the light above all the petty beings that can't see the truth" image he was trying to present. So he lashes out at the world for being ignorant and ungrateful, rather than reconsider whether he was wrong. 2. 2018 Thanos already had two stones and by that point, didn't really face any real challenge from anyone. The time we see him angriest in IW is when there's a realistic chance that the Avengers will take the Gauntlet from him. However, 2014 Thanos doesn't have any of the Stones, and there is a very realistic threat to his goals this time, and that stress and fear of losing causes him to show his true colors.

[@joelwerner7075]

"Oh shoot. They had a plan for a story being told across multiple movies? Is that important?" -Star Wars Sequel Trilogy, probably

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

😬

[@franzkissel1369]

Shots fired

[@christopherjames8290]

Funny thing is they are owned by the same company

[@JohannesLilover]

Hahaha

[@MariaVosa]

Or, you know, not a complete plan just trying to stay true to the characters and what was set up in every installment...

[@DJ88Masterchief]

TL;DW: Perfectly Balanced as all things should be,

[@Karl.Jones.2023]

Why would anyone not want to watch this? The nuances LFTS presents are what make it amazing.

[@lemonringo566]

Thanos is right.

[@pretendtheresaname9213]

What does TL;DW means?

[@MrSurajgeorgeabraham]

@@pretendtheresaname9213 Too Long Didn't Watch

[@ajiththomas2465]

@@pretendtheresaname9213 Too Long; Didn't Watch. Same thing really as TL;DR. Too Long; Didn't Read. It's basically used to give a short summary of something if someone reading or watching something was too lazy to read or watch it all the way through due to length. Often times, it's a form of laziness when it comes to discussion.

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

Cap: "You're not the guy to make the sacrifice play." Tony: "Everything special about you came out of a bottle." They went from saying that to one another, to Cap being able to wield Mjolnir and Tony sacrificing himself for the universe, leaving his family behind. Now that is character development.

[@calebliew5584]

I just can't stop seeing you cause you're everywhere

[@simonegreco1958]

@Ryan Irwin- Diehl "The entire point of his story in TFA was to show that despite being weak, he had more heart and compassion than any other man who was being considered for the program" Actually, it was BECAUSE he was weak that he had more heart and compassion than any other man. Erskine said this. He could appreciate the value of strenght exactly because he was deprived of it

[@mikeg155]

Ryan Irwin- Diehl Wouldn’t even call it a fan theory since Cap being able to lift Mjolnir in AOU has been confirmed so many times now. Whedon hinted it all the way back in 2015 at SDCC, Thor acknowledged it in universe, and Feige flat out said it during a Reddit AMA (he’s also the one who requested the payoff in Endgame). At this point, pretty safe to say it’s cannon.

[@adde9506]

@@mikeg155 By the end of Iron Man, Tony is also always the person to make the sacrifice play. He doesn't fly the bomb into space because of some psychological push from Steve, he does it because it's the only functional option. He tells Steve point blank that he's not going to take the catastrophic option when there are other good options. When the only option requires his sacrifice, he does it. And after TFA, Steve is never the person to make the sacrifice. Cap being able to lift Mjolnir IS canon, but it's canon that suffers from the "it happened in the comics" logic that produced Civil War.

[@icegodsavior8885]

@@adde9506 "And after TFA Steve is never the person to make the sacrifice" So you're just going to ignore TWS where he stayed on the Helicarrier to make sure it would go down, even tho that meant a possibility of him getting killed or severely injured? Or how about when, after the government declares him an international criminal he continues helping in secret as seen in the Comic tie-ins? Saying that Steve is never the person to make the sacrifice is a blatant lie. EDIT: I forgot to mention when he was about to take Thanos' army head on by himself

[@foodngems]

You articulated the character development so well! When I try to explain to people why Captain America is my fav MCU character, I just fumble with words and end up saying "but he growwwwssss soooo muuuucccchhhh"

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

haha. I mean, I think that's a pretty clear way to describe it!

[@masterpenguin8472]

Yeah, not many people have the confidence to say such deep and powerful words.

[@thegamegbs]

It's funny because captian america was always my favorite super hero, and when i watched the first avenger and avengers i thought "this is not my captain america" and since winter soldier everything changed, i love how the characters develops throughout the movies and the ending of his journey is just perfect, real tearjerker that one.

[@noeloumard9106]

@@thegamegbs I hope I don't start the whole Star Wars discussion again, but this is how people should see Luke Skywalker in TLJ - Just like you described your relation to Captain America in the MCU. The "This is not my Luke"-Luke is only the thesis. Rey, the resistance and Kylo Ren are his antithesis and by the end, Luke becomes the hero everyone expected to see :)

[@alexporto5669]

@@noeloumard9106 Problem is, we don't get to see Luke change. He is just diferent by the time of the film. How does the hopeful Luke turn into a niilist ermit? Yes, there is that 30 seconds flashback, but it felt empty, it was not enough to explain the biggest change a character goes through in the saga besides Anakin. The change from the hopeful Luke of the OT to the 8 Luke is extreme, so it's not so easy to accept it just because the movie says it is, we should have seen it all. Episode 7 should have been all about Luke going paranoid of Kylo, it would have been way more believable, imo.

[@thatoneseen]

I find that while thesis-antithesis-synthesis is an easy concept to grasp, it is extremely hard to make this concept work coherently in your story world. Causality is so so important. Such transitions gotta make sense in your world! Take for instance when Captain america changed from being selfless to selfish, he wasn't selfish for the sake of fulfilling the antithesis portion but because he wanted to protect the Avengers (still in character but coming from a different persepctive)

[@oriakumia2526]

Of course the concept isn't a stand alone thing... it works with other story ideas and it doesnt deny the importance of causality

[@shounen17]

It's shaped in re-writing mostly. First draft is usually setting up the events and story beats, and only when it's all in front of you will you see how the themes work into it. Of course this is just me, and perhaps there are geniuses out there who can give birth to fully formed stories from the get go. :)

[@maxclemence4077]

Causality driven by the characters actions is the ultimate challenge to building a script, but when it is done correctly like in the infinity saga it makes the arc have weight.

[@VonJay]

I think the mcu is too character driven to see how things effect the story world. In Other franchises, like tdkt, at about 20% character, and a focus on macro themes, is easier to pinpoint story world shifts because the focus is on the story world. The thesis, antithesis and synthesis still applies In the Dark Knight trilogy, for instance, Bruce's overall desire was to create a symbol that would inspire the creation of other symbols. Thesis: create a symbol that inspires the creation of other symbols Antithesis in the dark Knight: the creation of wanna be batmen in the beginning, and the revelation of the joker -who's after what the hero is after: Gotham - who uses plot devices from the movie franchise Saw on a macro level to influence the story world. Synthesis: at the end of tdk Batman uses macro levels, "what do I have to become to stop a man like that" to defeat the joker. The sonar device. And the antithesis of the symbol in the lie of the white Knight. -in tdkr the lie effects the story world until it is revealed. And the dark Knight rises with Robin and Catwoman, watching his idea congeal. But tdkt isn't really character driven. It is more driven by the designing principle and the story world. But thesis synthesis antithesis still works in these modes.

[@JustKrin]

The thing to take into account is that you have to change a character from the start of a movie to the end, and from one movie to the other. At the end of a movie the character can still have flaws, so you can use those leftover flaws to build on the next story and so on.

[@AlexBartnik]

The thesis, antithesis, synthesis structure reminds me a lot of how sonatas are often explained.

[@p2umpkin]

It’s amazing how much all our forms of art and entertainment truly have in common.

[@corbans5796]

Random but that's also how karl marx described economic structures. (Sorry I'm a nerd)

[@Duiker36]

@@corbans5796 And Marx took them from Fichte, who derived it from Hegel.

[@harryhooper1865]

This being the foundation of rhetoric and poetics since Aristotle

[@arivertoeveryone]

S N O R T *is it easier to imagine the end of hegel references than the end of capitalis?* S N O R T

[@peytoncoleman7747]

I realized how much Tony's death messed with me when I started crying at the scene taken out of context....

[@juliel5594]

Peyton Coleman me too! The tears started streaming so easily lol

[@rahulg5271]

Toney starc has great character Arc. One of the greatest of superhero movies (not comics). Even Batman of Nolan's don't have this amazing character Arc. I think. I also like Steve Rogers but I don't feel that connection with him that I fill with Tony.

[@thatguybob6088]

I remember watching the movie in theaters, knowing intuitively he wasn't gonna make it his contract was up and all that, but still hoping in my mind as we watched him die "maybe he can survive"

[@WannSky]

I was pretty sad when Tony died and I held back the tears. Then the topic of Cheeseburgers came up and it brought me all the way back to the first Ironman movie and how long the journey has been and I just couldn't hold it back anymore.

[@tis_ace]

@@rahulg5271 it is because tony is shown to be flawed like the rest of us, we feel him, and he faces his flaws, he makes difficult decisions and that builds character, that was happening from the first film so yea he is the most complete character of all.

[@fluffypanda6493]

I understand you simplified the characters a little bit to make looking at the bigger picture a little easier, but I'd like to point out that Tony was doing the self-sacrificing thing since Iron Man 1 ("I shouldn't be alive, unless it was for a reason" telling Pepper to push the button to blow the big reactor while he was still on the roof.) and Steve wasn't so desperate to join the Army for entirely selfless reasons (as Bucky points out, "and you've got nothing to prove?") They're both surprisingly nuanced, especially when you really take the time to look at the finer details RDJ's and CEvans' performances. They both did an amazing job layering emotion and personality into each line and expression.

[@JuliaDelbel]

I haven't watched the video yet but does the maker frame the Tony arc as being awful until Endgame like so many other do? Because if so then I'm giving it a skip.

[@fluffypanda6493]

@@JuliaDelbel It's obviously going to be a ymmv thing, but overall the video is pretty fair to him, though it takes a much broader view so some of the nuance is somewhat smoothed over. (It kind of has to, since it needs to cover so much ground) Still, I found it an interesting analysis of Steve and Tony's character arcs, so if you've got 17 minutes to kill, it might be worth a go.

[@yoursonisold8743]

I think what many people don't get about the theme with Tony is that while yes he makes the "sacrifice play" in Avengers 1 it's founded on a very different point of view. In Avengers 1 he sees himself as superior to most of the others and mocks them the entire time. He sees that he is the only one who can save the day by the end and takes the chance. But this is part of his hero complex too, he has to show off that he is worth something in the face of these other heroes. He also has fairly little of substance to lose, because he is still in it for himself mostly. He is not in a solid relationship with Pepper yet and she is nowhere near the battle anyway. Other than her he only has maybe Rhodey to care about and he's also safe. From here on out the near death experience and the fear of it happening again drive Tony to more and more extremes. He did not take the sacrifice play well. He absolutely could not handle it. It gave him PTSD, it made him paranoid, it made him create mistakes like Ultron. He wanted to regain control of his life and of the safety of those he cares about. His complex about him being the only one who understands what's at stake and what's the best thing for the Avengers and the world led to the fracture in ideology of the Avengers due to the Sokovia Accords and eventually he was pretty much the only official public hero left next to Vision(who he drove away by estranging Scarlet Witch) and Warmachine (who is still a solider and loyal to a single country). This all culminates in Infinity War where the heroes lose because they were divided. Cap gave Tony a peace offering, a outstretched hand with the phone, but Tony was too prideful/afraid to take the leap. He never called Cap until the very end. So what about Endgame? Why is it now thematically the time to pay off the sacrifice play line properly? It's because Tony gave up. He gave up on being a hero, he gave up on controlling his world, he just sought happiness and he got it. He has a family now, he has a stable, albeit somewhat glum world. He was lucky as Pepper said. He got to have a happy end before the end of the arc. And yet what does he do? The picture of Peter reminds him of what he left behind to get his happy end. He sees what he was originally fighting for before he gave up. And so he sets out to do something that might end his happiness forever. This time, dying would really be a big loss for him and even attempting to change the state of the world could mean the happiness he already did build could disappear. So when Tony made that final snap, he made the sacrifice play. He sacrificed his existing happiness for the happiness of others, not the prove anything, not because he felt he was the only one who understood what had to be done (Doctor Strange knew, Tony was more like a pawn of fate and yet he embraced this path). Tony never found peace even when he had everything. The only way he could obtain it was to restore what was lost and to end his nightmare for the right reason and with the right means. He could not have saved everyone without his friends bringing the time travel option (Pym tech and the idea) and the Infinity Stones to him. His sacrifice in the face of loss and for everyone else's sake is the true meaning of what Cap was getting at. No wires to cut, no alternatives to find, just plain doing the right thing for the right reasons and giving his life in the process.

[@fluffypanda6493]

@@yoursonisold8743 I have to disagree with most of your take on Tony. Underneath the bluster and quips, he's a kind person that genuinely wants to help people, even if he messes up some of the time. You’ll have to forgive me, because this response isn’t particularly well organized (but it’s not like yours was either.) As I said in my original comment, Tony's been self sacrificing since IM1 when he tells Pepper to blow the arc reactor when he's still in a position to be caught in the blast. He doesn't think he should be alive unless it was for a reason. Then we get to A1, where you say he sees himself as superior and mocks everyone. Have you noticed how he interacts with Rhodey and Pepper, with his robots and AIs, with his daughter later on? He jokes around, does things that'll annoy them into laughing and calls them nicknames. He's testing the water with the Avengers, seeing how they take his form of friendliness. The only one he is particularly sharp with is Steve and that's only because of his baggage with his dad + the mind stone (via Loki's scepter)'s influence. Later, when he's threatening Loki, you can see how much he thinks of all of them (and you might notice he doesn't list himself in that line up). What about the way he works with the other Avengers, when it comes to that final battle, says, "I'm the only one that can save the day?" He's taking orders from Steve and advice from Clint. Making the sacrifice play here isn't about showing off, isn't just as much about doing the right thing as it is in Endgame. He admits later, in IM3, that "You experience things and then they're over and you still can't explain 'em. Gods, aliens, other dimensions. I...I'm just a man in a can." Does that sound like someone who thinks he's better than other people? (And honestly that's the least of his self-depreciating comments) Your read on the source of Tony's PTSD is completely unsupported by canon. He's not scared of making the sacrifice play, he's scared of not doing enough. That's what we see in the vision Wanda gives him, that's his worse fear, that all the other Avengers die, but he doesn't and Earth is being invaded because he didn't do enough. So he attempted to make Ultron to counter a potential invasion from space (one that does in fact happen), but in the end, he didn't actually get that far, because Ultron made himself. (Bruce: Only when I've created a murder bot. Tony: We didn't. We weren't even close. Were we close to an interface?) You aren't wrong that "He wanted to regain control of his life and of the safety of those he cares about," but his so called "complex about him being the only one who understands what's at stake" has more to do with no one taking his concerns seriously than anything else. And he was right! If they had prepared for a threat, if they had kept the team together under the accords, there's a good chance IW wouldn't have ended the way it did. And honestly the split in CACW had less to do with the actual Accords and their ideology, though they were the kicking off point, and more to do with the lack of trust between Steve and Tony and Zemo doing what he could to widen the gulf between them. Steve could have gone to Tony right when he realized there was something more going on, but he listened to Sam and chose not to. "Steve: If we call Tony . . .Sam: No, he won't believe us. Steve: Even if he did . . . Sam: Who knows if the Accords would let him help." Tony could have trusted Steve a bit more and listened to him when Steve made a brief attempt at explaining. (Though I'd like to point out that he was under a lot of pressure, because if Tony didn't bring them in, Ross was going to set a kill squad on them. He's impatient because he wants to keep them safe.) But yes, they lose in IW because they were divided. Steve and everyone else were on the run because they broke the law and if Tony knew where they were and had contact with them, hurt feelings aside, that's kind of an issue, legality-wise and potentially for Steve and everyone's safety. It's better not to contact them until necessary and Tony was working himself up to do just that when something else (you know, aliens invading) took priority. What you had to say about Endgame sounded really poetic and stuff, but really, Tony's always had it in him to make the sacrifice play, has made it multiple times (IM1, A1, A2), it's just that it doesn't actually stick until Endgame. (And if you let me put my Doyalist hat on for a second, all that stuff about giving Tony a family was written in so it could lend weight to Tony dying, because they knew the movie had to end that way.)

[@paracletelux]

Fluffy Panda Good lord that is a lot of words to say that nothing is ever Tony’s fault.

[@Sthuthukile]

I saw Tony's death coming from a mile away, and it seemed like I'm the only one who was okay with it. Not that I wasn't sad, but it made his character arc come full circle. And it was a kind of poetic symmetry because RDJ himself saved Marvel, and his character saved the universe.

[@jairusjackson7799]

Same, I didn’t cry because I saw it coming. Even when the snap happened in Infinity War, my immediate thought was, they’ll be back. They can’t let this many characters go, they’ve still gotta milk some more money out of them😂

[@brysonturner6019]

4:30 THIS is why I love the MCU so much. Tony and Steve's arcs could only happen if they met and opposed each other. Their arcs are going in opposite directions and both require the other in order to move forward. Implicitly Pretentious talked about this in his Tony and Steve video, but I LOVE how well you lay out the structure in this video.

[@brysonturner6019]

@Snehil Shrey First off, Tony made the decision in The Avengers under a very stressful situation. With Endgame, Tony KNEW even before the mission he might not come back alive. THe fact he's gotten to the point where he can acknowledge that and make peace with himself to go through with it is an insane amount of development. As for Steve, I take it you subscribe to the Two Caps theory. I'll just say I subscribe to the Alternate Timeline theory. This isn't to invalidate your opinion. I can understand where you're coming from, but I wanted to give my reasons for why I disagree with you. Hope future MCU movies will be better for you!

[@icegodsavior8885]

@Snehil Shrey I swear ppl just say the stupidest things on here. In what way was Steve a villain? Was it when he sacrificed 70 years of his life by crashing the Valkyrie into the arctic? Was it when he stopped Hydra once again in TWS? Was it when he spent those 2 years between CW and IW taking down terrorists while also being hunted by the government?

[@icegodsavior8885]

@Snehil Shrey You mean how he learned to finally live his own life instead of living for others with someone who was still in love with him (which was proven by how she still carried the same picture of him on her desk). None of what you claim to have happened is anywhere near villainy

[@soulwarrior]

I'm watching this, very intently, trying to make sense of what you're explaining. The scene with Cap comes up where he's saying "Avengers ... assemble!" and I got goosebumps again. It's crazy how much of an effect that movie and that scene in particular have on me. I feel sorry for people who can't get excited about Marvel movies.

[@theantimillenial]

the assemble line is goosebumps but when he handles mjonlir like a boss, that's pure euphoria

[@BrennanJ96]

I can’t believe we almost didn’t get that “I am Iron Man”, like it seems so perfect that it would have been a shame if they missed that.

[@eyeyamjstn628]

Yeah, I agree... but if you think about it. Thanos said “it is not what is lost but only what is is been given”. So if we never got “I am Iron man” then wouldn’t we not know what we missed out on?

[@RoanCritter]

I have to say, all the stuff on Cap and Stark is cool and deep and all (not trying to play it down, it's still awesome), but I LOVE the editing on this video! The timing of the music, scenes, shots, lines, it's tight and really well done! Kudos on that!

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

:D Thank you!

[@MeBeCreepy]

“He, ya know, solves time travel” 😂 that will never stop being ridiculous how fast it was

[@dimitreze]

yup I rolled my eyes hard on the theather

[@Ryoufriggingserious]

Well...he is Iron Man.

[@nuclear_hawk]

@@lukeshiru It's not so much to do with how quickly he solves it in universe, but that he cracks it so quickly after it's even established as an option in the movie. The scene where Tony cracks time travel occurs (and I'm not joking here) 9 MINUTES in film time after Scott explains his idea to Steve and Nat. It feels cheap. Time travel has never been a possibility in this universe, and 9 minutes after it's mentioned it's suddenly doable.

[@shamusquinn3891]

Guys, guys, guys, the “How” and “How long” of it, I promise you, don’t matter in the wider scheme of things. The film concerns itself primarily if not entirely with the emotional stakes around that revelation - what it means for Tony going forward. Don’t believe me? Rewatch the scene. See how quickly the camera pans away from Tony’s victory and lands on...Morgan. The thing he stands to lose should he present this success to the other Avengers, should he choose to take the selfless action. That’s what they want you to care about.

[@Torus2112]

What helped sell it for me was how RDJ played his reaction when it was solved, you can tell he was utterly shocked that it worked out so smoothly. I agree it was a bit rushed from a filmmaking standpoint but they probably figured they had to do it since the movie was pretty long already.

[@connorbrennan4233]

If only Thor had a character journey as satisfying as these two.

[@ACKSDAWG]

Thor had one of the craziest character journeys in all of the mcu.

[@connorbrennan4233]

@@ACKSDAWG Crazy, but not wholly satisfying.

[@LegendaryCaptain]

@@connorbrennan4233 yeah very inconsistent to say the least

[@Spider-Nefilo]

For me Infinity War and the first minutes of Endgame were the PEAK of his character arc. Cause after that everything went downhill for me

[@priyanshuranjan3088]

I personally loved Thor's character arc. it's just it has many tonal inconsistencies because he was handled by 5 different directors all of whom had different takes about him. One thing that differs Steve & Tony's arc from Thor's is that even with different Directors their character remained same. They just evolved & writers build around these characters instead of changing them according to their surroundings.

[@alyssagrace4279]

this was absolutely amazing analysis wowowow i love how their character arcs intermingle with each other

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

Thanks! Yeah it's really awesome writing.

[@houston-coley]

This is easily one of the most definitive videos about the grand, overarching story of the MCU. Loved it, man.

[@90giddi]

I adored the idea of the entirety of the MCU being divided to a storyline structure, I wonder if other cinematic universes in the future would implement and maybe develop it further. Absolutely fantastic video btw.

[@jorgeamadosoriaramirez8953]

We would need another universe as expansive and well fleshed as this one. I'm not holding my breath.

[@lemonringo566]

@@jorgeamadosoriaramirez8953 expansive AND EXPENSIVE. It's unlikely that we will get another one of cinematic universes like these any time soon. It needs time, money, consistency and the ability to make good stories while not getting persuaded by higher ups who want quick profit.

[@blackwhattack]

@@alexlang5390 DC will regroup and try again. They have the money and the IP, Marvel is currently challenged and will be judged by the high bar it has set itself, and can struggle without setting themselves up for success with great characters like Cap and Iron Man leaving a weakness and demand for a franchise to take over. I'm not holding my breath, but if I were DC I'd just scrap everything and do something cool. Make the bad guy win and just reboot the whole thing :D

[@themadtitan7603]

Yeah, one could argue the MCU follows a traditional 3rd act structure Phase 1 is the first act; introduction and establishment of characters. Phase 2 is Act 2 or the mid-point: challenge the status quo of the established characters to develop them furthur and introduce new characters. (Civil War could be put here despite being a Phase 3 movie) Phase 3: Act 3; end the stories of the characters as well as the established foundations of the universe (Avengers divided in Civil War, Asgard destroyed in Ragnarok) only for them to find a common truth at the end of the journey

[@adithyasudheer1561]

The reason why marvel is the only ones to succeed is because they truly care about making films and cares about the characters. Others saw the money marvel makes and got gready and tried to replicate it.

[@AntonWongVideo]

It seems as if Thor got the "sitcom treatment" with regards to his arc. Each movie, he's arrogant which gets him into trouble. Only by dealing with that does he save the day. The next movie returns to a similar Thor who's slightly more improved but still a little arrogant. It's almost like a sitcom character! I'd love to hear an argument against that, tho. I think we can all agree that Bruce/Hulk got pretty lackluster character development compared to the rest of the original avengers

[@hollandscottthomas]

I really like that Thor gets broken down from this self-important Shakespearean demigod into a schlubby, neurotic man-child because of his own arrogance. He's being built back up again now, but he'll be very different to where he started. Hulk is a little more direct/obvious, since he managed to achieve balance off-screen but his stories were initially about the conflict between his two personas so I actually prefer that they chose to show him working harmoniously for most of the ENDGAME runtime.

[@kraziiXIII]

Take a look at Lauren Crone's video on Bruce Banner and you may feel differently about his arc. Its viewed through the lenses of the Ennegram types but the analysis is so spot on and Lauren's incorporation of the Ennegram is explained so seamlessly. Bruce's arc is actually my favorite of all the Avengers because of it!

[@bamflyer]

I don't remember the exact term, but there a philosophy to his character growth and it's based on repeates tragedy and small improvement, it's ancient Greek I believe

[@nont18411]

Saying he got a sitcom treatment is quite insulting though. The real sitcom protagonist still get more respect by the writer than Thor.

[@Extra-dg7uv]

@@nont18411 Yeah lol. Like seriously, Thor is the only Avenger who does exactly NOTHING in Endgame to contribute to victory. All he does is whine like a little bitch and get his ass spanked like a red-headed stepchild.

[@herison7554]

8:05 to achieve balance, you say? A Thanos-approved method of writing character arcs

[@themadtitan7603]

Indeed...

[@crush41gb]

I always loved that the only one Tony can muster a word to while he's dying is "Hey Pep." ❤

[@viniciusferrari2653]

When Tony makes the decision to do the snap and kill Thanos, he is put in the exact same place that Captain once was, when he dove that plane into the ice. I believe that the main arc for Tony throughout the whole series was exactly that: make him do that choice, the choice Steve made 70 or so years ago. Even the consequences of the choice were the same: Steve sacrificed his whole life together with Peggy, and so does Tony with his life with Pepper. if that isn't just poetry and awesome screenwriting, I don't know what is.

[@JDog2656]

Except there is a difference: Tony had plenty of time with her. Cap was busy with the war. Also, the fact that Steve survived and kept fighting until after Thanos’ defeat. Only after returning the stones and the opportunity presenting itself after all is said and done was when it was taken. Even then he had to remain safe just secret to maintain the integrity of the timeline. Reliving things like the Red scare, 9/11, etc. His life with Peggy still served a greater purpose and he still passed on the mantle of Captain America to a worthy successor. Tony on the other hand put himself in that position in the end. By which I mean if he had made better choices like not making Ultron or the Accords, things likely would have been different. By attempting to control the outcome every time, he only made things more difficult. There is a reason why Dr. Strange and Steve ended up where they did. They embraced the reality we all should: it’s not about you.

[@chance_ondriezek99]

“And I am... Iron Man”. Sacrificed himself to save everyone in the universe. The actions of a real hero, and by far my favorite character in the MCU.

[@adithyasudheer1561]

@Ryan Irwin- Diehl it was personal because we grew up with Tony. We see him change and become a better person. We see him realizing his flaws and rectifying it. We grew up with him, and theres nothing to be ashamed. The whole world cried

[@benvoliothefirst]

@@adithyasudheer1561 Hell, I'm crying NOW, just watching that short clip again!

[@spiderneil]

"You're not the one to make the sacrifice play. To lay down on a wire and let the other guy crawl over you." Tony Stark - Gives his life to save the universe "You're a laboratory experiment, Rodgers, everything special about you came out of a bottle." Steve Rodgers - Lifts Mjolnir (Thor's Hammer)

[@Karas540]

@The Bandog there's a sexual joke somewhere in there

[@mikeyh6379]

Usually, I’m one to write off Marvel movies as less than cinema, but you’ve made some really great points here and you’ve changed my mind, at least on some aspects. Thank you for sharing.

[@l.tc.5032]

get out of here scorsese

[@brysonturner6019]

If you want any more videos that do things like this, you should check out Implicitly Pretentious. He's done character essays on alomst every MCU hero (and even some villains) that detail their journeys and what they mean extremely well.

[@ThejusRao]

@@leplus1 I genuinely wish I could heart this, lol. So true. Even more so when you consider he hasn't even seen a single MCU flick, and he's still being judgemental about them.

[@cabronmalisimo]

@@ThejusRao Funny how the industry replied by giving the full Scorsese treatment to Joker...

[@GetOverHer3]

Yeah I mean they are action movies that make a lot of success and money... so they gotta be shit. Right ? How about the part where Paul Thomas Anderson said that from time to time he watches videos of Endgame's first screenings, to see people's reactions to the best scenes and remind himself of the power cinema can have on people.

[@bikramarora1819]

Phase 4 has a lot of mechanical and structural issues with its storytelling and characterizations, but I think another factor that’s working against it is that there’s no one left that has the gravitas that these 2 characters had.

[@kixter490]

I love Cap and Tony’s arcs in the infinity saga, this was such a great summary of them!

[@plark9283]

I feel like people never really get why Steve goes back. They always say “he spent like 4 movies trying to get Bucky back, he wouldn’t just leave him.” And they say “oh my god if he looks at that dumb compass one more time I’m gonna lose it.” He fights for Bucky because Bucky represents his past, it’s all he has left of his past, especially once Peggy dies. He continues to visit Peggy, but when she dies, Cap goes all out and breaks up the Avengers to save Bucky, because he is the only part of the life he lost that is left. It’s never really about Bucky. It’s about the life he never got to have. It’s seen through his vision in Age of Ultron, it’s seen through him visiting the exhibit at the museum, it’s seen through him always having the compass. He goes back and gets his chance to be with Peggy and have the life he always wanted. And who’s to say he didn’t go and save Bucky, and fix all the stuff that goes wrong in the future and make a new timeline? There’s no way of knowing, because we just don’t see the story. And to anyone who says that this turns Peggy into a prize for Steve, completely ruins her arc from the show, and the relationship she has there, who even knows if they stay together?! Maybe he goes back, dances, and moves on, because Peggy’s happiness is more important to him than him being with her.

[@thedefinitive6296]

While I do agree with one of your points, one thing I think you got wrong was that Steve didn't break up the Avengers for Bucky. Steve was actually going to sign the Accords because of Bucky. Tony told Steve if he signed, they could get Bucky put in a mental hospital instead of a Wakandan prison. Steve nearly signed but when he learned Tony was holding Wanda at the compound, that's when he refused to sign. But ultimately, no, it was never really about Bucky. Not to say Steve doesn't care for Bucky, but Steve was definitely fighting to hold onto his past because he was ripped out of his time and put into ours all because of the choice he made to crash the plane in an act of selflessness. He learns balance throughout his time with the Avengers, however, and bookends his character arc beautifully.

[@kellharris2491]

Who is stupid enough to say that Peggy is a prize? If anything looking at her own series and all she did creating shield, getting Steve back was her prize. As she said when she died she had a family and no regrets. She was just sad for Steve.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Except she didn't get Steve back kell.he got her back.

[@kellharris2491]

@@fightingmedialounge519 you could say they got each other back. The point is both characters where characters in and off themselves. Both had their own personal goals and lived their own lives.

[@wksnxkeksnd]

youre completely right about this

[@Nick_Scratch]

Something in my eye...

[@michaelalvez5880]

This video is..... something else dude I'm literally in tears.

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

:D

[@moeezahmed7168]

Isn't this the most beautiful Marvel video i have ever seen . Tears flowing down my eyes . Two most beloved marvel super heroes indeed . Great Work Micheal, this is one amazing video.

[@syedajaveria7615]

Yeah right omggg

[@syedajaveria7615]

50 rupya kaat over acting ka

[@syedajaveria7615]

Nai dekhega micheal

[@syedajaveria7615]

Apka comment

[@elhopper3735]

The fact that Tony pretty much invented time travel just to save Peter, who he sees like a son, is probably one of the best parts of the movie

[@calebgonzalez3426]

Michael sure loves his midpoints

[@Bobbytheman98]

Literally am developing a script where two opposite characters meet and team up and the story develops around the type of people they become. This video helped further some of my ideas.

[@Zionswasd]

Sick, what's the eta son?

[@hermannbeutelspacher840]

Bob Bobbertson for an “artist and novice author” as yourself apparently punctuation isn’t a big deal. Instead of calling the lifelong work of some people “trash”, perhaps you could try to recognize that there is different material for everybody to enjoy. So hopefully the guy you were replying to will make his script in his own style.

[@siddharthkhirwar7192]

@Bob Bobbertson Watch the video as a whole . The screenwriter of Avengers: Endgame himself states that the parallels between Cap and Iron Man were intentional . And no , themes cannot come out of any piece of entertainment for no reason , lol . Sure , anyone could come up with any random theme for a film , but there will be very little or no example to support the theme . If the said theme is well structured and the script has plethora of evidence to support it , then the theme is very much intentional or close to what the filmmaker wants to express .

[@Bobbytheman98]

Bob Bobbertson I respect your opinion about it but I respectfully disagree I think his take on the infinity saga was really good. I’m not making a superhero genre or anything close to it but I am making a story where two characters arcs will define the story and the direction that it will go into within the shows seasons. Yah and to make something entertaining. That’s the mission haha. Of course I want to make it in my own style that’s all I got. But for sure this video has been inspiring for me in more ways than one where I can think more about certain elements I can use

[@Bobbytheman98]

Zionswasd An action thriller about hold of a semi- futuristic world where tech has made a revolutionary stride in not just our devices but in human interaction and our perception of reality.

[@KrishayAgarwal]

This was completely out of the blue so when I saw this pop up on my recommended, my face instantly lit up. Great video from start to finish, thanks for covering possibly my two favourite characters of all time! I'd also like to point out how much they complement each other, to the point when they are looking for each other in Infinity War(Tony trying tactical approaches on Titan and having to rely on Star-Lord and Cap trying to separate Vision and the stone and having to rely on Banner) Edit: Seeing this made me realise it's about damn time you do a video on The Mad Titan himself

[@KrishayAgarwal]

@Bob Bobbertson didn't get you mate

[@trouts4]

Okay, so I've had major issues with Steve's ending ever since I saw Endgame in the theatres. I found the ending to be bittersweet at best and tragic at worst. I felt gutted that Steve was relegated to being returned to the past instead of be a part of the future that he helped rebuild. I felt gutted that he was removed from everyone he had befriended, from his surrogate family, from the best friend he had risked everything to save. I felt gutted that Steve made this decision because I had been watching these movies and seeing a different Steve than the Steve who made that decision. I felt he chickened out and reversed on any kind of character development. I was really mad, walking out the theatre. After some time I stopped being mad and just started being sad and disappointed. Fact of the matter is that I didn't get closure, I couldn't get closure. My reaction to his ending made me realize that he was my favourite character in the MCU because why was I otherwise so upset? And I used to think Steve was boring. Crazy. I just wanna thank you for this video because I don't think I saw the forest for the trees. This is a short and succinct analysis and I can finally see what the writers were thinking. I don't know if I fully have closure yet, but watching this made me realize that I was internalizing myself with Steve and not letting himself be his own character making his own decisions, not letting him complete the character development that I ultimately didn't want to see because I knew it would make me sad. It's been over a year and I still think about Steve and his ending often, I can't seem to let it go. But after watching this video I think I'll get there, in time.

[@TheLittleFangirl]

I feel the same way, and I suspect that is because for Steve getting a life does not necessarily equal Peggy anymore. Although narratively Steve letting go from his need to always be the hero makes sense, and no one condemns him for stepping out (which is also one of the main dilemmas superheroes face, and it's so interesting to see it play out when that dilemma eventually comes around), the choice about how to step out doesn't sit well for me. On one hand, Peggy has been dead for a couple of years now, Steve has been shown to, obviously, regret having to leave her, but he's still happy she got to live a good life, form a family, etc. On the other, Steve's main priority has always been keeping his friends safe, and especially, saving and then later keeping Bucky safe. It's just baffling to me that he would completely forget about his dusted friends (Sam has also been a very close friends since The Winter Soldier) and just after getting them back go into the sunset with Peggy, who we know had a very very happy life with a husband (we also know this character, we've seen him in Peggy's TV show), leave everyone who loves behind to fulfill his one selfish wish (since this movie? Why did she become so important all of a sudden, he hadn't mentioned her since she died in Civil War) and leave a peaceful life. Especially since we did not see any interactions between the three of them (I get that we should interpret that Bucky knew Steve's plan, but still, it would've been nice to make that a little clearer, I long for more Bucky content), it comes out of nowhere and doesn't align with his character journey, where he sacrificed everything to help his One Best Friend who is now leaving behind to deal with all his PTSD with Sam alone. Sorry for the long rant, I just needed to vent

[@halfpintrr]

The-LittleFangirl I agree. Like I understand perfectly what you’re saying. That’s why I’ll never get over it. It feels like a regression, not growth.

[@kraziiXIII]

@@halfpintrr agreed. It was a regression for a man who worked as a grief councilor after the Snap. It just makes no sense with what we've learned about the character.

[@trouts4]

@@TheLittleFangirl I feel exactly the same about everything you said. I'll have to accept that I won't get closure unless I reconsider how I view and think about Steve's character arc. This video gives the best answer but I don't think I'll ever be fully satisfied. Peggy was obviously important to Steve but I feel like he dealt with that already which is why it feels like a regression to me. I know the whole point of his arc is to make him less selfless and more selfish but while Tony got the balanced synthesis I feel like Steve still swayed to far into the selfish end of the scale. He's leaving everyone who cares about him behind to spend his life with a woman he loves but who he also KNOWS got a happy life after he died. I don't know if I could ever self-insert myself into that which is ultimately why I don't like it.

[@eldenwarrior489]

I personally loved the ending for Steve because I think most people got his character arc wrong. Not about a soldier laying down his life for everyone else, he’s been doing that since his first movie, and character arc is going from point to another, so where is his arc? His arc is of a soldier, whose always been on the battlefield, learning to go home. It’s what Ultron mocked him for: “A soldier that can’t live without war”. And by the end, he does. He lets himself be happy and lay down his shield, passing it on to someone who won’t let what he represents die. The way I see it, Steve stops being an ideal and starts to be a person. Which, in my opinion, was the most beautiful and fitting end he could’ve got.

[@danelmore6553]

Good. Though I struggle with the general interpretation of Cap during Civil War. I can not agree that he has "swung too far away from the trait/flaw of self-sacrifice", because I do not see his stance in that film as being much, if at all, about self-interest. Ideologically, he is standing up against what would be a clear step toward authoritarian "registration and monitoring" of people based not on what they have done, but based solely on what they may have the potential to do. On a more personal level, he is trying to protect a man from unjust execution, which is also far more indicative of self-sacrifice than self-interest. There is no time in human history where registration and "monitoring" of individuals based on what they are, as opposed to what they have done, has ever served the cause of civil liberty, or a free society. It serves only to perpetuate an illusion of security - We all know the quote about a society which is willing to sacrifice the former for the latter, losing both and deserving neither.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

Except still self intrest, because it's self intrest. Morality and selfishness can co exist.

[@danelmore6553]

@@fightingmedialounge519 So your entire assertion is that it is, because you say it is. Do you actually believe that such an argument is a valid way to dispute one presented with data? Even if that data is partially dependent on subjective interpretation, I supported my interpretation with examples taken from the "reality" of the events we watched in the movie. Your interpretation is backed up by nothing except the apparent belief that stating hyperbole as fact which would apply to all contexts. If your assertion applies as you wish it to, then we would need to accept that literally no act can be done which is not in one's own perceived self-interest. Perhaps that is so, but that is not the same as "morality and selfishness can co-exist". This would mean, even if you are arguing from a purely philosophical perspective, your second statement still does nothing to validate your initial assertion.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@danelmore6553 no, I'm arguing from the perspective of actually knowing the definition of words before using them. Something I'm finding is rare on the internet. Data is only relevant in a discussion if the theises isn't fundamentally misguided. What makes what cap did civil war a self interested action was because it was primarily motivated by his own personal interest rather then the or wants or needs of anyone else. To say it's not that term because of your own moral alignment is gross over simplification, and far more hyperbolic then anything I ever typed.

[@danelmore6553]

@@fightingmedialounge519 So you discount entirely any consideration of even the possibility he is opposing the Accords primarily because he earnestly believes it is not in the public interest to register people for "monitoring" based on nothing more than what they MIGHT do. If you were half as enlightened or intelligent as you seem to believe you are, I suspect you would improve your tact, and possibly one day you might even sound as wise to others as you do to yourself. You trying to validate your perspective by insinuating your grasp on the English language is superior to my own, articulates fully your belief that conversation, and by extension everything in your reality, is a zero-sum game. You stating "morality and selfishness can co-exist", as though it actually supported your initial statement in any way, or disproved mine, is as pure an example of hyperbolic rhetoric as can be expressed. If you do indeed actually "understand what words mean", then I dare say it is further evidence that you likely have difficulty understanding context.

[@fightingmedialounge519]

@@danelmore6553 I'm disregarding it because I actually paid attention to movie and I understand the English language, something you clearly seem to struggle with on both ends. The irony of a person desperately trying to sound well spoken while willfully misinterpreting the movies characterazation is incredible; especially when that person accuses someone else of having poor tact. The directors and writers have stated they wanted Steve to come off as more emotional and selfish. While it's perfectly valid to say that their attempt felt poorly excuted to you, saying that's not what Steve was suppose to be is objectively incorrect.

[@ClaymorTerorist]

Man, imagine thinking the MCU wasn't the most impressive feat of cinema. These last few weeks have been really hard for myself (along with soooo many others) and all those emotions came out when you replayed Tony saying "I...am...Iron Man." You articulated so eloquently the beauty of the arcs these two characters went on, combining self-sacrifice and a sense of duty with a healthy skepticism of those in power and self-confidence, leading to an end result of the world being saved and an earned happy ending. Thank you so much for your videos, I appreciate everything you do and the bright spot you (Michael and the whole LFTS team) provide us.

[@chawla1126]

@Snehil Shrey and people like you are pure triggered haters, who hates the success of mcu.

[@ArthurAveiro]

This is a really good analysis of these great characters. It seems like everytime I hear someone talking about Cap and Tony they inherently think that Tony was always an asshole, undeserving of our empathy or sympathy. It drives me up the walls, because I think it's such a cheap way to enjoy these movies. The whole point is that they are three-dimensional, they learn and grow and change, and they have good motivation for what they do (most of the time). I've even heard people hating on Cap's ending! Mainly because he didn't stay with Bucky I think? Idk, those people are weird.

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

I definitely agree people are weird.

[@Zhung36]

I think they just don't really understand the characters' underlying structure. Maybe send them this video? ;)

[@devilsadvocate4081]

People who don't like cap's ending are Shakespeare who knows everything about writing and whatever you do will be wrong to them. Its just stupid.

[@startrekmike]

@@devilsadvocate4081 I think it is actually a different problem. A lot of the people that I have met that just don't like Marvel movies are very much of the mindset that doing so makes them counter-culture on some level. They think of comic book movies as mass market trash and that they only are made to make money and have no artistic or narrative goals beyond that. In some ways, they are not entirely wrong but they forget one key thing. Movies that are built for fun and entertainment can also have very real emotional meaning for people. They can say more even if they are made by a giant entity like Disney, Sony, or Warner Bros. Sadly, youtube has a part in this as well. Channels like CinemaSins, Red letter media, and the like are all pretty focused on cynicism for the sake of cynicism. They constantly use comic book (or even just mainstream films in general) as punching bags in a way that encourages their audiences to dismiss said films without any thought.

[@Atlas-FM8]

The only complaints I’ve heard about Cap’s ending is they don’t believe he’d knowingly just sit to the side for decades living a normal life while all these atrocities happen (Hydra taking over shield, Bucky being tortured and brainwashed for years, etc) and not do anything about it.

[@muskaan3711]

This was good analysis of their character arcs. I like how both their characters are first introduced as opposite of each other, but slowly grow to become just like the other one. Iron Man and Captain America are like two sides of the same coin.

[@wksnxkeksnd]

exactly

[@TheGourdKing]

Even a small clip of Tony making that sacrifice hits me right in the feels.

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

Agreed.

[@willemdimas4909]

The editing in this one is absolutely top-notch. Amazing work!

[@1FrostySlime]

Great Video! And thanks to Michal and the rest of the lessons from the screenplay team for making it!

[@robbiemcneish4459]

14 hours ago?!

[@1FrostySlime]

@@robbiemcneish4459 Patrons get early access

[@dammagrilla]

The implication of Tony's "You don't deserve it" in Civil War is that Cap wasn't "worthy" of the shield... Mjolnir has entered the chat...

[@mask.surname2225]

Why would you dislike this brilliant video, just why..?

[@karinaloz]

I have spent this quarantine watching all the marvel films I missed out on when they came out. Once I finished, I found myself watching through the whole saga again, a little older and wiser from the last time I saw them. Great video! I thoroughly enjoyed your analysis on the character arcs on both these characters. It was great timing to say the least 😊.

[@JuanCastillo-yi4sc]

This was great, I thought I was crazy because I repeat the saga over and over just to watch Tony and Ironman grow.

[@pascalprima1659]

Your essay is beautiful, I'm crying at the end WELL DONE!!

[@kelleyotwell]

Thanks for this video. I had never thought of Tony and Steve's narrative arcs crossing like that. It's cool to have more insightful thoughts about a film series that means a lot to me. Just joined the Patreon (should've joined much sooner). Keep up the great work!

[@JCtheMusicMan_]

The most impressive feat you have accomplished here is delivering the essence of a 23 movie story in 16 minutes. I was moved to tears multiple times. I see Producer in your future(On second thought, you already are producing brilliant content)! Can’t wait to see more compelling content.

[@DhruvPatel-gs8db]

How do you manage to blow my mind in every video? But, this time it was related to something very personal to me and you won my heart.

[@Migzter05]

This almost had me in tears. Such good story arcs.

[@efroster123]

Michael, this is an amazing video essay! It’s really making me wanna rewatch the Marvel Cinematic Universe (again and again). Keep up the amazing work!

[@Zelein]

These video essays are so exceptionally well made

[@TheoJay615]

I completely missed how they swapped rulesets in civil war. The characters were written made it so that I didn't even bother to think about it! Props the marvel team.

[@WhiteWoodEnt]

I love the quality of the footage that you use.

[@LifeOfRiza]

"So he, you know, solves time travel." LOL only tony stark 😭 fantastic breakdown of the series, i just finished rewatching and this was SO spot on! Marvel puts so much effort into their characters and the humanity behind them and that's why they'll always be ahead of everyone else

[@miguelarceo5269]

Marvel has one thing that other cinematic universes don't have, patience. They created two amazing character arcs that spanned over the course of 11 and 7 years, plus the changes each character had felt natural instead of forced. Not to mention Robert Downey Jr and Chris Evans did an amazing job showing the changes in their characters.

[@aizazizzat6060]

looking at this and looking at the direction the MCU has taken after the infinity saga. Makes my heart squeeze tight in my chest. Its mostly gone to shit now. Can barely watch the older films without the looming shadow of the new ones leaving a distaste in my mouth.

[@thesummaryguy3911]

I always loved how tony goes from more of an individualist to a company man vs steve becoming a company man to more of an individualist. Also I always kinda liked how everyone constantly looks up to steve as this amazing person because he generally does the right thing, but the only person he lets down pretty much in the MCU is tony.

[@ChuckD008]

This just makes you appreciate even more what the MCU accomplished.

[@russellkid117]

What's really beautiful about Stark's sacrifices in Avengers vs in Endgame, is in Avengers he is someone who almost doesn't care about his own life. He does, but he is reckless with it - for him, his own life isn't the ultimate sacrifice. The ultimate sacrifice is only possible once he has a family, so his decision in Endgame carries so much more weight than the first time. This time he has everything he ever wanted (and needed) and is willing to exchange it for the greater good.

[@TheOfficialoddity]

This was so well done. I love the thought that was put into my favourite movie franchise ever. Thank you!!

[@SHMOUSEY86]

The writing, casting, directing, and acting for the Infinity Saga are unmatched throughout film-making.

[@MestizaMetaphor]

Thank you so much for making this. You've helped me understand something I had kind of sensed but didn't know how to word. This saga is a modern American epic. Captain America and Iron Man exemplify the two big traits of our culture, headstrong individualism and selfless dedication. These come into conflict in our culture all the time. This is a philosophical story about our society's ideals, anthropomorphized. Their arcs, as you've so wonderfully described, help us see how these seemingly opposed traits can be synthesized and balanced for a more harmonious, but not homogenous, American people.

[@DoctorandtheDoll]

This is one my favorite videos you've ever made. Thanks, guys.

[@pedrolanna1551]

I also like how, in Civil War, Spider-man serves as another parallel to both Steve and Tony. When Tony fist meets Peter, he asks why is he doing this, and Peter tells him straight "When you can do the things that I can, but you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you." and Tony looks away. Even tough that's another way of saying "with great power comes great responsibility", what matters is that's exactly what Steve told Tony, that because they have their power they have to stand against those who will do "bad things". Tony knew this, he knew the kid was already a natural hero, someone who didn't even hesitate to use his powers to help others as soon as he got them, who thought like Steve did and, even knowing that, he would charmed and use the kid to attack Steve, that's why he looked away. I was hoping that, in "Far from Home", Peter would be feeling like he disappointed Tony and that he would never be able to live up to his expectations and, at his lowest point, he would be presented a old confession video from Tony (maybe from when Peter died), apologizing to him for making him battle with Steve that day in the airport, and telling him that he knew he was a true hero from that first time they met, more than he ever was, and that his greatest regret was having failed him, robbing the world the chance to see the amazing hero he would have become.

[@allasian452]

That would have been great but it didn't happen. They removed a lot of emotion...

[@Nikkiflausch]

Top notch analysis, one of your best ones yet! Tony's pretty much perfect arc is the reason I suspected his finale to happen pretty much exactly the way it did in the end. I felt really proud of predicting that ending down to quite a number of details, and no matter what people say about the MCU movies, I think it means they are actually pretty well written - or at least it means they're written in a coherent, consequent way.

[@puzzleofmizuki]

Thank you so much for making these videos! I always turn to your videos to becoming a better screenwriter to enter the professional world of film!

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

:D

[@matthewgonzales5077]

I still got goosebumps when Cap said “Assemble.”

[@StrifeGarza7777]

Wow, this seems like a love letter a bit to Tony and Steve; still a wonderful review of these series of films and character arcs; always love LFTS. The thesis, antithesis, and synthesis reflect a Heidegger style philosophy; embracing the synthesis of conflicting ideas. If anyone wants another example of this, watch the 1995 Ghost in the Shell film for an amazing expression of this shape of acts

[@tedguanzon3499]

After rewatching the MCU for a thousand times already, I just noticed that the music which Peggy and Steve were dancing with on Endgame, was the same music on Winter soldier which Nick Fury played when Fury crashed on Steve's apartment, looking for help .

[@nightsurgeon23]

I'd share this video with everyone having a hard time understanding the appeal of these movies, it may not be their fault, but they shouldn't be left believing that they are shallow spectacles of action and visual effects, when they clearly are much more.

[@kmarr68]

This was amazing. No matter how many times you watched the movies, no matter how much you know the characters, this was so well dissected and explained, I'm amazed at the characters and character arcs all over again. Thank you.

[@alexpattle96]

One of your best videos yet, and that's saying something...

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

Thanks Alex!

[@alexpattle96]

@@LessonsfromtheScreenplay My pleasure!

[@pguth9]

This might be the best video essay I’ve ever watched...perfect summary of an amazing character-driven blockbuster series. So good. Thanks LFTS

[@RAGrae]

And here I thought I couldn't appreciate these movies more. Loved this.

[@dacmister]

I almost cried in this video essay more times than I have almost done in full length films. Bravo. Beautiful work and insightful as always.

[@dylanrea1463]

It's gonna be so hard to not have these 2 in the MCU. However their endings were fantastic

[@vishalnetha]

Bro you just articulated the reason why i love these characters... cheers!

[@STNG17-]

MIND BLOWN!! Never even realized the story was this deep.

[@Tripledashhh_]

This video essay was PERFECT! Under 16 mins? Made it feel like an hour compared to other channels that spend 2 hours on one topic and still make it not as intriguing as this video! Thank you for this!

[@deadbars8755]

please do some Paul Thomas Anderson movies. I'm sure you'll learn a lot of writing and characters in his films

[@zhariv9402]

Thanka a lot fot the audible promotion U made like, last year, I'm thinking of writing scripts and U are one of my great inspirations, a lot of the things I learnd about this area came from U, and I'm reading "Story" by John Truby and learning a lot! Thanks for everything.

[@iamkarthik585]

Tony and Captain gained sythesis and Thor gained weight perfectly balanced.

[@lucaspoon4202]

And Hulk lost some weight

[@Volatilevinnie]

Man, this one hit different. I've seen many MCU analysis videos, all with different and new takes, but this one is definitely up there.

[@motionflixentertainment7153]

Endgame's message was, “Fighting isn't always a way out of a problem.”

[@allasian452]

still did fight lol

[@hellozup]

I love your writing and editing as always... Plus the way you narrate this really soothing and easy to understand (I'm a non-native English speaker). Thank you

[@salvsays]

This was beautiful. Thank you

[@LessonsfromtheScreenplay]

:D

[@maribeljerez-bennett9353]

I'm so glad I watched this video. What a wonderful summary of the creative arch and cohesion of these films. Thank you for putting all together for me. I had never seen it as a creative whole. I feel so much more respect for the writers who contributed to the journey. 🙂

[@btk2034]

Not even a second and I’m already judging this is gonna be another masterpiece from Michael. Great content!!!

[@purplesoccerfrk1]

You summarized their characters so well, I cried more watching your video than I did in the theaters.