Is a new geopolitical battle developing over Electric Vehicles? | Inside Story

The US President is backing striking auto workers - worried about jobs and wages in the shift to electric vehicles.
The EU meanwhile is investigating China's subsidies for its electric vehicle sector.
So, are EVs becoming another geopolitical battleground?
Presenter: Sami Zeidan
Guests:
Steven Erlanger, the Chief Diplomatic Correspondent in Europe for The New York Times.
Andy Mok, Senior Research Fellow at the Center for China Globalization.
Ferdinand Dudenhoffer, Professor and Director at the Center for Automotive Research think-tank.
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#ElectricVehicles #EVs #US #China #EU #TradeWars #AutoIndustry #Tesla #ChineseEVs #TechWars

[@colafish2152]

When the Western have advantage they talk about free trade, when the Western lost advantage the practices all kind of unfair restriction.

[@twood2032]

Yes, the US, EU and China all have subsidies for their EVs, yet China's subsidies is not ok. What a joke.

[@zenlei8258]

@@twood2032 Did China pay Tesla cars made in China ? It is total lies China subsidise Tesla made cars in China. China did provide enormous subsidies to EV car battery maker such as BYD, CATL etc.

[@khein2204]

They would talk about human right soon

[@oceanwave4502]

On Reddit, they have no problem with the West dominant in: SWIFT, IMF, WB, Semiconductor, Airplane (Boeing, Airbus)... They said the world should be thankful because they got these products and services from the West. :)

[@sihksahmir5635]

free speach free restriction free decision what else?

[@yeetian2774]

China ended the subsidies in December 2022. And Germany just announced a 110 billion EUR subsidies towards their EV.

[@GROGU123]

The U.S. currently has $7,500 per EV made here. Obama also funded quite a bit to Tesla years ago during the great recession. All car manufacturers foreign or domestic must play Tesla for zero emission credits if they don't sell enough zero emissions cars. For example, Stellatis(forrmerly Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep) alone paid Tesla $2.4Billion dollars for zero emissions credits between 2019 and 2021 for both U.S. and E.U. Many of these legacy auto manufacturers like VW still sell a ton of ICE cars. So they still have to pay zero emission credits to Tesla unless they can sell enough EV's. They aren't simply getting huge influxes of cash like Tesla is getting to make EV's.

[@iggy5347]

China china china .always china .we should give china opium like in 1900. So they become lazy and we become rich and great again like in 1950

[@gpsfinancial6988]

@@GROGU123 Stellantis had the option of selling cars that pollute less, they also had the option of paying the Government fine, instead they made a choice to buy credits from Tesla.

[@Ysa-Andy]

China's previous industrial policy did not directly affect electric vehicle manufacturers, that is, it did not subsidize specific manufacturers, but subsidized consumers at sales terminals. Therefore, automobile manufacturers can only obtain industrial subsidies if they make better models to attract buyers.

[@theowink]

Fck cars I selling mine and already bought a electric tuktuk No need for long distances .

[@summertech2014]

I just came back from a visit to China, my first after covid. The pace that China is moving towards automation is staggering. Ask an average westerner about China's factory, she would conjure up an image of sweat shop with thousands of lowly paid workers cramping in inhumane conditions. That was true before and is still true in some sectors but those factories are leaving China in droves. China is simply not cost competitive anymore against countries like India, Cambodia and Vietnam. China wants those factories out as well. Instead China is building highly automated factories of the future, retraining their workers and creating new competitive companies as a result. Chinese EVs are a great example. But I have also visited modern fully automated factories making all kinds of other products. Increasing productivity is the right way to increase worker's earnings. Not unions, not political interventions, not chest-thumping leaders. Make the hard transition and a better society will emerge.

[@johnnywalker4203]

Well said

[@eugenec7130]

"Increasing productivity is the right way to increase worker's earnings. " Can't be more right! The Americans really need to drastically change their attitude and mindset in this 2020s. They should not cling on to their old habits of wanting more pay with less work. It is not only China which is competing with the US on cheap and good quality products, the whole of Asia, and even Africa, is competing with each other with cheap and good stuff.

[@tonywei423]

Best comment so far.

[@archstanton5973]

*Don't include KLEPTOCRACY incredible! superpower! india! IN THAT LIST as KLEPTOCRACY india! superpower! india! IS IN THE TOTAL PROCESS OF DESTROYING ITSELF......* *IF you REFUSE to believe me simply block out all the TRASH GARBAGE WESTERN "media" TRASH ABOUT "incredible superpower DEMOCRACY india IS GREATEST GDP STORY EVER!"....... and instead DO SIMPLE research ABOUT HOW ALLLLLLLL CORPORATIONS ARE RAN OUT OF 'incredible! superpower! india! BECAUSE incredible! superpower! india! IS NOTHING BUT AN OUT-AND-OUT OPEN KLEPTOCRACY AS OF 2023........*

[@Joherandez-jz4jn]

So what is China going to do with all those workers that'll be out of a job with the current trend to automate everything?

[@clintonrugut9656]

It’s all about a rule-based international order until you get beat at your own game

[@havencat9337]

exactly...

[@haoli5779]

The US manufacture will keep falling as long as the The US$ dominance the international trade currency position.

[@unreliablenarrator6649]

Europeans, particularly Germans. have enjoyed 30 years of high sales and profits in China. Now the tables have turned because Europeans have resisted EV technology even when they were surrounded by Chinese and Tesla in that market. Perhaps EU and US should subsidized petrol less and the future more.

[@antoinepageau8336]

Al Jazeera is maybe one of the last media companies to actually present objective well informed guests. Thank you Al Jazeera, you set the bar for the older media companies who have fallen.

[@rabuanmantine8522]

The others are propagandists rather than media

[@peterwong4779]

The biggest mistake of German politicians to be directly Russian enemy for ever not only sent helmets but sent tanks and a lot of weapons to kill Russian in Ukraine , Russian never even forgive + Forgot ,, Cheap resources never ever get from Russia even,, German people pay highest prices 😢

[@siyingli8454]

Chinese EV industry is really competitive domestically not just in export. And every country offer subsidy.

[@KayyHong]

China is not whining about American subsidies to farmers, subsidies to foreign companies to build plants in America, to buyers of automobiles made in America. America sanctions Chinese companies with ties to the military. How about American companies with ties to it military and there are so many of them?

[@User-007imwnx]

What subsidies did the US and EU car makers receive?

[@siyingli8454]

@@User-007imwnx EU Green car innitiative as an example launched back in 2008. and i believe there are more if you research. A lot of countries are starting to subsidy the EV industry now, it is a bit rich to accuse China for doing it while they only started or want to do it now.

[@User-007imwnx]

@@siyingli8454 So before you actually know it, you already claimed 'every country offers a subsidy'? Loll

[@icephoenix5466]

Yeah but countries can’t be independent and act free within China but China expects beneficial trading terms. Doesn’t sound fair to me.

[@HKChineseCanadian]

I can't wait for the arrival of Chinese EVs in Canada. Then we can have some affordable quality vehicles for ordinary Canadians.

[@nelyambao7796]

Not going to happen. US wont allow it

[@CharlieBrown-zr9wk]

100% bro

[@MMA-gb6to]

so true

[@mariahewitt9787]

E-cars, E-scooters, E-bikes are selfcombusting, and burning down homes!!!! The fires cannot be extinguished!!!

[@JC-in1fy]

Not if they price their car EV like they did in EU.

[@klarkewang]

Let's face it. All these are because of China, game changer... lol

[@wnklee6878]

US workers want more money, less work, and are expected to produce cheaper cars. Makes perfect sense.

[@NafoDato]

Everyone has to making a livable wage, unlike the Chinese workers who make $2-3 an hour.

[@jerryorange6983]

Look at French. It's possible to do if you work smarter. They work 35hrs a week, + 30 days of paid holidays. Results they don't need to work many jobs, in 4 days a french workers makes what British worker does in 5 days and French make more money. Their old age pensions are quicker and higher. A good hard work is a stupid thing to believe in today's world. We need to work smarter with better profit distribution. Simple as that. The question is whether people want to better themselves or slave for corporations.

[@heyking8583]

​@@NafoDatoyet Chinese citizen live more comfortable than average US

[@CharlieBrown-zr9wk]

are you sure@@heyking8583

[@NafoDato]

@@heyking8583 I disagree with that assumption.

[@nholmes86]

EU commission is being selfish.

[@Stoner_AlexChen]

The experts never talk about the technology.EU's ev cars cost way more than China's,because EU is behind in the term of technology.

[@widodoakrom3938]

True

[@jellyd4889]

What technology please? Only batteries. That will change when other battery tech arrives.

[@Stoner_AlexChen]

@@jellyd4889 you should ask VW what did he pay for from Xpeng.Bought Xpeng's batteries?Xpeng doesn't produce batteries itself.

[@alexd302]

They were asleep at the wheel whilst China (and Tesla) was eating their lunch.

[@EduruChan]

@@jellyd4889huawei ads is the best..better than tesla..nice try

[@irokpe6977]

The problem here is that big european businesses invested in oil and gas related businesses. They don't want to switch. But china saw a future in EV earlier on and now they're a giant in the automobile space

[@mariahewitt9787]

Really? China is flooded, crocodiles are hard to catch. 😮

[@iggy5347]

China china china .always china .we should give china opium like in 1900. So they become lazy and we become rich and great again like in 1950

[@markbernados7945]

china has the advantage of everything. lower cost, highly developed automotive factories, resources, locally produced batteries, largest lithium mine and refineries, and massive research and development, and innovations. The rest of the competitors are way behind due to restrictions and patents.

[@mariahewitt9787]

@@markbernados7945 Watch : China Uncensored.

[@iggy5347]

@@markbernados7945 china dont spend money on unending war like iraq afghan libya syria war. The US spend $8 to $10 trillons for this war. If the money spend on industries then the US will be much more advance

[@rockysolid7762]

If you can't compete fairly, tax, ban, sanction or probe them ,😃😁

[@faterrorism]

last but not least, kidnap the founder's daughter

[@jonpaul3868]

Send them drugs like opium like in the old days Ming dynasty. Coz the white canot compete for vases😂

[@CharlieBrown-zr9wk]

Always fighting against what good for little people In Canada the average price for new vehicles is 67 thousand dollars 😢😢

[@ululukululu450]

I will never understand why Canadians don't revolt demanding Canada be made a part of the USA. US$1 = CA$1.3 Salaries in the USA are higher while the cost of living is cheaper. Cars in the USA are in general 15-20% cheaper than in Canada. Houses 50-60%. And the worst thing, any Canadian with any sort of ambition migrates to the USA at the first chance they get. What's even the point of Canada staying independent and poor when Canadians would be infinitely better off as Americans? I will never understand the stubbornness and irrationality of anti-Americanism by Canadians.

[@fjz8470]

Wtf how are you guys still alive?

[@chopinmack5418]

Tesla started building its Shanghai factory in Jan 2019 and started the assembly lines in Dec. 2019. One million EV's were built between Dec. 2019 to Aug. 2022 . And another one million were built From Sept. 2022 up to early Sept. 2023 . Most of the German Car companies are working together with their China partners at present in this race . Cars from Japan will fade out eventually .

[@scarlion2101]

Europe is open to competition, but the competition must be to our advantage, not disadvantage.

[@davec110]

you forgot to add if the US has an advantage the EU bend over and asks if the angle is good enough. US subsidises their batteries to tax breaks for consumer purchases as well to play catch up.

[@anshuraj4277]

China subsidies industry illegally

[@HopeIsFleeting]

So you're saying we made the rules but we don't want to have to follow them? Seems fair...

[@duncankowable]

Competition must be fair. As long as i'm the winner, the competition is fair.

[@Hello-ln8wh]

有意思，那30年前徳国英国欧盟汽车进中国时中国有利吗？特斯拉进中国时中国有那个电动车企?

[@nexusyang4832]

Tesla has all sorts of subsidies and various tax credits here in the US. Is that any different than what China is doing?

[@duyataksis5210]

China bad. China baaaaaad.

[@johnnywalker2870]

US and Europeans think that "rules are for thee, not for me"!

[@GROGU123]

Tesla doesn't get much in subsidies any more. They'll get some to continue to build out the supercharger network. But they still have to expend alot of their own money to go along with those subsidies. So it's not like free money. Tesla gets a bone in the form of Zero Emissions credits. They sell these credits to all the other car companies, and they make hundreds of millions per year off these credits. Stellantis alone paid Tesla $2.4 Billion dollars between 2019 and 2021 for zero emissions credits in both the EU and US. The EU has the same zero emissions credit scheme.

[@KayyHong]

And America is even subsidizing foreign companies such as Foxconn, TSMC and others to build plants in the U.S. and then it whines about Unfair Chinese subsidies.

[@somponesakdy826]

Totally different.

[@Wendy-nm9zw]

Get out of the electric car market ... while you can. Government is in the middle rethinking the whole EV issue because of economical and environmental worries of toxic batteries.

[@nehcooahnait7827]

My economics teacher, who is German, called German politicians “pathetic” over this.

[@user-nf7og9bg6b]

I feel that the US and China expert are more precise when they are talking about their opinion and government policy, the EU countries are so diverse, so the EU expert is so jumbled compare to other two, not only because he lack of specialized skill, but also because EU is in a mess in many categories.

[@oceanwave4502]

I won't say Russia will get out of the war intact, but EU is more and more bogged down with the war and its consequences (energy crisis, inflation, deindustrialization, and recently refugee influx, thanks to food crisis in Africa, probably due to the war).

[@lozkko]

While there is one Federal policy regarding EVs in the US, state policy varies widely. EV penetration rates among US states are probably as disparate as in the EU, if not more. California vs North Dakota? Fairly similar to Sweden and Italy....

[@taos728]

I’m a vw id4 owner in China, the ev subsidy policy is fair to all brands in Chinese market, the policy just makes ev makers cakes bigger

[@zenlei8258]

Is it the same as VW making ICE cars in China have to pay China EV cars maker carbon credits about $7500 per cars ?

[@dijikstra8]

@@zenlei8258 So stop making ICE cars or stop complaining. Nothing is stopping the EU from implementing similar regulations.

[@mohammadnasrati7645]

Inshallah China will bring back the pride of its neighboring countries and those who were constantly being bullied mentally for ages

[@swimbod21]

Inshallah, they will put you in concentration camps.

[@Sam-dm4kz]

I have a friend in Chicago owned a Trucking Company with 30 Trucks, he bought 2 Chinese electric Trucks like Volvo and Peterbuild These electric trucks performed excellent his profits went up 40% on 2 trucks. He decided to replace all trucks to electric, he asked electric company that he is going electric and wants to revamp his electrical supply to 3 phase and gave load calculations, electric company came running to him and said WHAT do you know how much power you are requesting it’s 5 mega watts, half of Chicago uses 5 mega watts. We don’t have the grid to supply you that kind of power. WHAT OMG. I have 2 trucks right now and there is no problem. We have problem your draw is skyrocketing when both trucks are plugged in after your shift is over, these batteries are huge. City refused to supply power and told him to move out immediately and buy 20 acres put up a Solar Plant for your business. This is the only option. You know what he already bought 50 acres 40 miles away from Chicago and moving with all electric, he said he can recover his money in 3 years cause no engines, no transmissions, no Motor oil, no Transmission Oil, no changing batteries every 24 months. He is happy camper.

[@aleonyohan6745]

Lies

[@lighthousesaunders7242]

Interesting story, thanks. Punctuation would have made it even better.

[@elmohead]

Lies. Chicago uses 413TWh a year.

[@jetli740]

@@elmohead maybe you miss the point, the powerline to this guy truck company cant carry more than 5mega watt. and depend on distance it would be very costly to do the upgrade with unknow certainty how long the trucking company would exist.

[@teoengchin]

I find it strange that none of news outlets reporting on this issue seems to realize that the best selling Chinese made cars in the EU are actually Teslas

[@mastertrend4685]

The media of world are controlled by US.

[@ken-mb5cp]

Elon bad. Don't mention Tesla.

[@duyataksis5210]

For now. The new Chinese automakers like BYD, Nio, Li, Xpeng are far superior to Tesla.

[@mariahewitt9787]

Selfcombusting E-cars, E-scooters, E-bikes, available all over the world? I'm so excited. NOT!!!!

[@GROGU123]

Tesla plant in Germany makes 3000-4000 units per week. So you have to subtract about 16,000 vehicles per month from the total, which will equate to how many of the Tesla's come from China. In June 2023, Tesla sold about 29k model Y's in Europe. So roughly half of Tesla's in Europe are coming from China.

[@Qwuiet]

If subsidy is the only reason why Chinese made EVs are cheaper, why can’t Europe offer more subsidy? Isn’t European countries the richer countries? subsidy is just an excuse for the less competitive European EVs

[@dan-bz7dz]

The main reason is actually the green licence plates that allow you to drive any day of week.

[@Alarix246]

It's hard but comical to imagine that the UAW workers are "trying to save the American dream" by fighting for 32 hour working week, while China didn't even start a five day working week. The Chinese work six day week and we didn't even start talking about the wages difference. Even if the Chinese subsidies to car industry apparently ended in 2022, just these facts make it ridiculous to even try to compete!

[@guochi]

一些大厂是“996”。

[@NelsonGuzmanGarcia]

I thought we must let the market do its thing? Capitalism 101 right?

[@EvilChineseTrollbot]

The natural state of "Capitalism" is that 99% percent of the people are poor, and the 1% of the people are rich. It is only because of "American Liberalism" do you have a an "American Middle Class".

[@anshuraj4277]

Does China? No

[@NelsonGuzmanGarcia]

@@anshuraj4277 of course, for Capitalism to suntain itself, it needs the State. Anarcho-capitalists and Libertarians seem to forget that.

[@anshuraj4277]

@@NelsonGuzmanGarcia Ofcourse

[@karlmin8471]

China is the biggest vehicle market, two times larger than US market, nearly three times larger than EU market, and is still getting bigger. Chinese consumers prefer local companies more than foreign companies.

[@widodoakrom3938]

True

[@dugowf766]

No they don’t , VW had a 50% market share at one point, and foreign brands are previously seen as better. However the domestic market is also super competitive so companies have had to be very good to survive. This is what the advantage is - intense competition and an only the fittest survive mindset.

[@carinatao9974]

@@dugowf766BYD has already dethroned Volkswagen and becomes the top 1 best selling vehicle this year in China. History made!

[@miaomiaotoo]

China has many imported cars, & still successfully made Chinese brands EVs. China has many imported phones, & still successfully made lots of Chinese phone brands, does EU, US lost confidence? 😅

[@nannangao7256]

that's the point. Actually China welcomed Tesla as a competitor to make China's EV company improve faster. That's why China EV is here.

[@somponesakdy826]

EU and USA are not losing their confidence, they are losing their designs.

[@Bryanbkk]

@@nannangao7256 and of course, to steal their technology. 😂 No matter, the world is better off with more EVs.

[@jetli740]

@@Bryanbkk steal technology? who dyd or catl steal battery technology from? maybe they steal from your country now your country dont have that technology anymore. only ignorance fool keep repeat steal technology

[@louisemann3306]

The US offers subsidises too but that's different, it's one rule for the US and another for China. The Chinese expected this would happen, that's why they ended subsidies last year. The EU should complete rather than to follow the US example of using sanctions and coercion to destroy competition.

[@shutian_666]

Yes, just like the International Space Station and Huawei, China people later built them themselves.

[@tallest4eva]

Who is to blame for the EV lead China has? The political right in the West. Conservative politicians funded by big oil and car companies striving to maintain the status quo and protect their profits fought EV adoption in the West for more than 2 decades. The old system with big oil companies and complacent car companies were resting on their laurels. China looked at the market, realized it would be stupid to invest in trying to compete eith legacy car companies with ICEs, so they decided to invest in the future; batteries, EVs etc. Now the west is hand wringing and grasping at straws to justify not competing with Chinese car companies.

[@MGZetta]

The idea of EU is focusing on high end luxury cars and the US is focusing on big pickups and SUVs while China focuses on affordable cars is interesting. Doesn't mean they can't make all of them, just means they can deliver you the best on the market. China is open to western cars and Chinese people still have brand pride where they ride western cars for status symbol but if the west can't accept Chinese cheap cars, it's gonna be an ugly trade war and can't deny the possible rise of national pride where they start boycotting western products.

[@mutually_assured_destruction_]

clearly you have no idea about chinese ev cars. anybody knows a bit of what chinese ev cars are in sales would tell you they compete in all price range including luxury high end cars.

[@MGZetta]

@@mutually_assured_destruction_ it doesn't mean they beat western competion. lol. just because west makes cheap cars doesn't mean they're better at it than china.

[@TheRedc0met]

You are right. People are starting to see the hypocrisy. Western products are losing market share in China.

[@rabbitazteca23]

did US not give its chip industries? Why did EU and US not criticize it for doing so?

[@spider6660]

RIP Volkswagen in China, the brand's largest market.

[@karimroufaou3579]

The truth us that European legacy automakers feel they lost the battle for competitiveness in the china market. Now they are lobbying to be able to protect their traditional market that is EU

[@rabbitazteca23]

China has lots of affordable EVs like the Wuling that no car manufacturer in America is yet to be able to produce given the costs.

[@justindressler5992]

Fortunately in Australia we don't have a car manufacturing industry here anymore so hopefully we get cheap Chinese cars here without massive import taxes.

[@davidrichards1741]

China EV cost US$8K in Malaysia today. Basic but reliable. For 11K you get more luxury, and for a bit more, a 405HP EV that will wow you, like a girl with loose plain clothes that cover a body to die for. In both cases, it's suprise and woo-hoo!!

[@justindressler5992]

Actually what amazes me is that we still charge luxury car tax in Australia making German cars vary expensive here. I'm amazed Germany and Europe haven't complained about that

[@eoky]

Europe is adopting protectionist policies 😅

[@xingzhang3185]

Chinese car selling in EU expensive 50-200% more than Chinese domestic, so is that unfair competitive??

[@PrashantKumar-sr3tu]

Unionised western countries can NEVER compete with China or India in any industry or category. Long Live India & China.

[@iggy5347]

You asian need to be colonise again and we loot your wealth. We are the most powerful military in the world . We loot $45 trillions from india and $ 20 trillions made from selling opium to china

[@sjhassjh3941]

Don't lump India with china, Vietnam exports more than lndia

[@jasonhow8604]

Does it has anything to do with India?

[@cuckoonut1208]

Sneaking India in there. Nice try Kumar. They may have the numbers but their states are run by very evil leaders.

[@rcpmac]

You clearly are ruling class. I’ve seen industry in India, filthy, dangerous, using child labor in hazardous conditions. We don’t need to go back to the 19th century.

[@ogdababy3196]

Let's face it. Everyone loves affordable these days I know the fact that NIO Chinese EV is close to Tesla the only difference is the software Nio has a far better range and Battery charging and is also cheaper for EV EU cars not for me I prefer to choose Tesla its stylish and quicker to charge compare to german car

[@XiangJi]

Fair interviewer and informed guests, props

[@kentershackle1329]

Chinese will win, hands down.. More variety, Cheaper ..

[@anomalysyndrome3235]

China EV with competitive price and quality, helping EU to push green agenda and commoners can move away from fosil fuel more faster.

[@tonymcdonald6482]

I worked in the auto industry for many years. Designing, testing and bringing any vehicle into production involves a huge investment. That cost has to be recouped by selling a very high volume of vehicles at a profit. So having a product which the market wants, is affordable and the market is large enough is basic. No car company is vertically integrated and makes every component inhouse. Many, many variations of supply chains leading to assembly and delivery to the customer will remain to suit circumstance. Models and platforms and component systems will be shared between assemblers to reduce investment cost and improve ROI. It is definitely not about having local battery manufacturing!

[@goatrockhunters8000]

Imagine having an interview like this on any MSM network in the US.

[@jesusaguilar4585]

In the US, without a nationwide infrastructure development plan for recharging station electric vehicles are only useful for local commutes. Even the there has to be the infrastructure to meet the demands of electricity so as to not crash antiquated electrical grids. Here in California we experience blackouts during summer on a regular basis due to high electricity use for air conditioning.

[@alexd302]

Without the Tesla supercharger network is what you mean. A road trip in my Tesla is a breeze in the USA.

[@jesusaguilar4585]

@@alexd302 I don't doubt it but charging stations have to be as abundant throughout the country as gas stations are. There's also the question of having the infrastructure to produce the high demand of electricity if all vehicles go electric in the future.

[@thesecondgroup]

These western countries make us laugh sometimes. Firstly, did any western country acknowledge the complaints of developing nations when they were complaining bitterly about gargantuan prices of western car brands? Secondly, did any western country see the need to pressurise these car companies to reduce their prices? They rather claimed developing nations were poor and hence the reason for their inability to purchase big western car brands. Thirdly, did any western country complain about unfair practices be it pricing or government subsidies when it was only their cars that were gaining huge market share just a decade ago? Do western countries think this world only revolve around them? No. If they're cheating the rest of the world, they call us dumb, fair trade etc.

[@kabandaayubmuhsin]

Wooow this is an amazing response to the Western arrogance 😅😅

[@dengist8172]

Literally everyone gives subsidies including the US and EU. It's a cheap move

[@davidrichards1741]

Here in SE Asia, american cars are non-existent now, and japanese dealers are closing down every week whilst Chinese EV dealerships open new location every month. And why not? The Chinese cars cost half as much and have equal-to-better quality per local consumer reports.

[@kelvinking4022]

The question is: if EU cannot complete with Chinese and Tesla,how are they going to sell their cars to the world.

[@littlebrothermoneywithmich6178]

They won’t sell EU cars across the world. They’ll sell that over-priced out-dated ICE cars to Europeans.

[@TheRedc0met]

By pushing a narrative that Chinese EVs are garbage and cheaply made.

[@doug3691]

I'd like to see a mainstream outlet like this one interview Sandy Munro, an expert on Lean Design, and a consultant for various Chinese automakers some years back -- and it really shows now! Constant innovation is something the EV industry is displaying, mostly due (in my opinion) to Elon Musk and Sandy Munro. Getting everyone to a sustainable future -- primarily BEV's, solar, and battery storage capacity -- is mainly going to be about the economics of it becoming clearly favorable. (Even though the moral argument is also quite strong.) And rapid innovation, rather than subsidies, will be the main driver of those favorable economics -- like the price of a fully (or battery) electric vehicle. If they all cost 80k+ forever, only so many people'll be able to afford them.

[@mikehamm648]

I heard the workers complaining $30 per hr is not enough to live on, really? Most of America doesn’t make that much an hour. Bring on the robots

[@jellyd4889]

Good arguments and reasons from everyine. These ev startups have big advantages... no legacy vehicles...a tiny amount of parts to deal with... simplification.

[@glenwjohnson809]

These people will inflict suffering on their own people just to hurt China 😅😅😅😅

[@James-mw7zv]

As usual and as expected US is wayyy behind the curve.

[@ramys.4313]

Not only the chinese have the best battery technologies and better access to raw materials but also they're more and more good in design quality of manufacturing and finish. The chinese have a paved road to dominate the world market of smart cars.

[@iScoopyPal]

The next complaint would be China stole EV technology from countries that produced more expensive and less advanced EVs. Once China dominates the EV industry, the West will change course and declare that EVs are not green. No matter what the West does, China will move on with Asia, Russia, South America, and Africa. These new markets are ripe and China controls the design, raw materials, and the supply chain. The West will struggle with both combustion and EV engines. They don't have petroleum or electrical energy and yet, they restrict themselves from acquiring them. Most importantly, they rage war with their biggest customer which is China. The only solution is to complain and cry foul. Until they wake up and behave like real adults, don't bother them. Sun Tzu said that if your enemy is making a mistake, let him carry on.

[@AbuShivaToyib]

Losing in a competition using all means is what happens in a country that claims to be very democratic

[@eplugplay8409]

Tesla disrupting Auto Industry RIGHT IN FRONT OF OUR EYES!! Tony Seba 10 years ago was right and it's coming into fruition! You haven't seen nothing yet, wait 2 years when Tesla releases the 18k car EV that will be far better performance, efficiency, low maintenance, and safety.

[@njmeteor]

Just came back from a trip to China. Every cab and Didi (Chinese uber) I took while there were electric. Every. Single. One. Even in 4th tier cities, and in villages all the scooters have converted to electric as well. Basically what you see on the road are Teslas/Chinese EVs and German luxury cars. Very few mid-range gasoline vehicles.

[@hellouser5498]

No Japanese or Korean?

[@vurujak]

my left ear really enjoyed listening to this

[@stepheniwundi9159]

These people 😂 they sold the world vehicles that were overpriced for over 100 years and now they are crying 😢😅😂

[@moemimouni679]

FREE MARKET MY ARS.

[@bin-siewlim2191]

BYD Seagull - US$12,000. Chevy Bolt - $40,000. How to compete. US offers rebates.

[@ALWH1314]

Chinese EV price is higher in Europe is higher than the price in China, so there is no export subsidy. This is just another Chinese discrimination excuse, not surprise. Many European EV are made in China or owned by Chinese (e.g., MG, Volvo, London Taxi, Mini Cooper, BMW, VW…), it’s hard to block them all. Cheap labor is the stereotype of describing Chinese manufacturing. In general, EV is not cheap, so buyers don’t shop purely on price, car has to be reliable, strong performance and design. Chinese government spend money on building charging stations, give EV cheaper registration fee and rebate to buyers, this is not direct subsidy to car makers; and every single country does the same thing.

[@natbirchall1580]

China has always been an open market

[@joneslo5572]

Sanctions will eventually hurt those who imposed it. Sanctions make countries being sanctioned to be self reliant, innovative and develop their own more superior products !

[@joneslo5572]

@@kira-le9qr don't be ignorant!

[@elmohead]

​@@kira-le9qrusa ban china from getting EUV, and now theyre gonna make sub 1nm chips using particle accelerators.

[@jetli740]

@@kira-le9qr north korea got hypersonic missile far more advance than the US, they been bully,sanction by the US for the last 70yrs, their aim is never again so their goal is weapon and defend.

[@Analytical_Visionary]

excellent discussion on the current state and the future of EV market

[@ICEMAN_GT]

Well, if EU consumers prefer paying higher prices for EVs, then why not?

[@bafostiti7125]

So does employment not get affected in areas where EU and US export their vehicles ,isn't business about competition or it's only ok when the big guys do as they please with their products in other countries Why are they worried now about China EV cos they the ones who pushed for EV

[@alan.c889]

The ICE automakers have a disadvantage because of the legacy costs of supporting the ICE vehicles and pensions associated with retired workers as well as the unions push against automation and in favor of manual human labour. If you go into new electric car factories, you will see that robotic machines do most the heavy work with speed and precision, old unionized factories will never let their factories automate for competitive advantage.

[@LemyAng]

Trade war from the EU with China is suicide, especially for the German car industry. The German car industry has been busy manipulating emissions for too long. In the USA alone, VW had to pay a fine of 30 billion euros. If VW had put this money into car battery research and production technology, VW's electric cars would probably be number 1 today.

[@odysliu9102]

nice interview, great host and guests.

[@mackbedunduk1305]

EU should cancel Free Market regulation forgood 🤣🤭

[@allenaxp6259]

The US, EU, and China are all major players in the global EV market. The US is home to some of the world's largest automakers, including Tesla and General Motors. The EU is a major market for EVs, and it is also home to a number of leading EV manufacturers, such as Volkswagen and BMW. China is the world's largest producer and market for EVs. EVs are a key technology in the fight against climate change. Countries that are able to develop and lead the EV market will be well-positioned to address the climate crisis.

[@MMLL369]

What figures are show us the obvious is, traditional major automakers are losing the game at the moment. New startup EV automakers have the advantage that they do not carry the burden of transition like the traditional automakers; smooth transition from ICE to EV is difficult, they need to continue on ICE car production & sale to keep themselves running, while investing into a totally brand new EV sector and the worst? Each new EV they sale cancels off a ICE sale, with the latter far more profitable. Korean EVs from Hyundai and Kia are rather young automakers as well, they stand out because they too hold key battery technologies. Do you think climate change is really an issue to politicians? Nah, maybe at the initial stage in the 90s, it has always been one of the talking points to curb third-world countries like China, India, Indonesia.

[@zenlei8258]

@@MMLL369 New start up EV cars maker in China are bankrupt now. Only BYD, Nio survive.

[@JigilJigil]

And China is investing heavilly on building new coal plants to generate the electricity for those EVs.

[@MMLL369]

@@JigilJigilBS and a lie. China has announced it will not build any new coal power plant in 2021.

[@widodoakrom3938]

​@@JigilJigilchina will surpassed both France and USA in nuclear power plant

[@Secularworld60]

There is no difference in a government subsidising a domestic industry or imposing a tariff on imports

[@henrysmith1464]

The anchor man shot insightful questions indeed. The three interviewees are all matter of factly style with individualized perspective. Their way of talking politics are quite interesting too.

[@edmondov]

Legacy automakers are just not capable of building affordable EVs

[@mikafiltenborg7572]

.... Or make profit selling EV's 😂😂😂

[@bobcharles7716]

The bottom line is that you can't penalized China for think and investing ahead and being right about it! The is the goal of capitalism, silly!

[@s.c8410]

The "rule based order" means the US can change the "rules" any time it likes.

[@bobcharles7716]

@@s.c8410 The reality is that it look like the US can lie, cheat, and steal all it want can change the rules at any time. China will still come out the better. Just look at the chip war, and then before that the trade war, and before that the International National Space station thing.....

[@newmoneymarcus]

If Ford is losing $30K per EV unit how much cheaper are the Chinese building them? Why do they need subsidies if they are building them so cheap?

[@elmohead]

Ford buys Chinese batteries, that's why.

[@ted_butler]

Excellent guests. Excellent information

[@alitwitter]

China has advantage because it has complete control of the EV supply chain(robots, batteries, AI, Metals and electronic chips) plus relative cheaper labour and vast domestic market.

[@carinatao9974]

Pls the raw materials refinement and processing for making batteries are also dominated in China

[@Eric-zo8wo]

0:38: 🚗 The EV sector is becoming a new geopolitical battle as the US struggles to compete in the global electric car market and the EU and China clash over subsidies. 4:52: 🚗 The battle between automakers and auto workers in the US will impact the country's competitiveness in the global EV market. 8:23: 🔋 China and Elon Musk have a competitive advantage in the electric vehicle market due to cost effectiveness and battery expertise. 12:33: 🔌 The role of government is crucial in the development of the electric vehicle ecosystem, including charging stations and other necessary infrastructure. 16:45: 🌍 There is a global trade battle looming between the EU and China over unfair subsidies. 20:58: 🚗 Allowing Chinese EVs into the US market could benefit American consumers with inexpensive, safe, and well-designed electric vehicles. 25:11: 🔋 The challenge and opportunity of prioritizing national battery production in times of crunch. Recap by Tammy AI

[@steven4315]

Retired UAW here. We know that fewer jobs are better than no jobs. Had two factories close on me, both due to the lack of investment. One big issue is the big three are building new battery plants with massive government subsidies. They say these are joint ventures and want to pay these workers less. We say these plants are big 3 owned and should be available for UAW to transfer to as engine and transmission plants shut down.

[@zenlei8258]

The problem in US is due to Wall Street greed. Wall Street CEO demand high pay and not dedicated to help company become strong and profitable like Toyota. The American CEO are all over paid obscene amount.

[@steven4315]

@@zenlei8258 As you can see from the comments, most Americans support multi million dollar wages for CEOs while their employees get just enough to get by.

[@caryandrae9952]

The reality is american govt will talk about protecting jobs only if close to election. Other times the protecting jobs are mostly political bs as their interest is mostly support their pay masters which are the lobbying companies

[@duncankowable]

In East Asia last few years you hardly see any American cars anymore.

[@davidrichards1741]

5 billion Asians, and they all hate US products and mostly hate the US too per a recent New Straits Times poll in singapore.

[@maftab3818]

Full support China

[@Leitalks]

Chinese president Xi Jinping is an INTJ, that's why China became so competitive in EV. ❤

[@TheRedc0met]

He's more of INFJ because there are no vagrants or homeless living in the streets. No mass shootings or school shootings either because guns are banned.

[@mariamiry6459]

thank you , 👍

[@whatwhat3432523]

South Korea makes fantastic EV cars. From what i have been testing lately i feel Kia, Hyundai, Mercedes, Volvo and BMW have the best EV cars. The first two have really good cars, and with affordable prices.

[@honestjoe632]

While the legacy auto makers have been enjoying their huge profits from ICE vehicles, China moved forward. The automotive traditionalists are like dinosaurs while new auto companies have new legacy costs and could see themselves becoming assemblers of multiple OEM’s in the future

[@sistajoseph]

The cost are why they send the jobs to China in the first place. Costs differences are driven by social differences.

[@danielgriffin8132]

Small affordable is the key, not large, expensive trucks that ordinary people can't afford starting at the bottom, not the top .one really good product beats multiple bad products every time.

[@kevinkwok7626]

Germen government has subsided over 115 billion euro country car industry, Another hypocritic act. Around the world, governments are also vastly promote new energy industries and provide subsides and what is different to Chinese government does.

[@shilongtang549]

天啊，请的什么专家

[@Alarix246]

3:45 "China is by far the greatest EV manufacturer." But in reality, nobody stresses the obvious point that none of these except for Tesla and BYD are profitable. Nobody can forever support a non-profitable business, so... surely a consolidation of Chinese car industry must happen fist as well.

[@antonymwangi4986]

They would be profitable if they wanted. It's the same way Amazon reinvests everything to not pay taxes and expand fast

[@oumourihadadi7609]

That's really the case. Amazon made the choice to be non-profitable over many years, the result it gains market share really faster than competition, and killed physical shops in some areas. No thinking about profits earlier gave them time to reinvest and compete within China and now they chase them outside China in their doméstic market

[@karlmin8471]

Tesla, BYD, and LiAuto actually.

[@Alarix246]

@@antonymwangi4986 you may be partially correct. Some could, others couldn't even if they tried.

[@kongking5048]

EU and USA have to accept and respect the country which can produce better EV.

[@eugenec7130]

China must be obscenely rich and charitable to subsidize the Europeans with EVs. The world is hoping that the United States would compete with China in subsidizing the poor countries in EVs.