Is Ab The Same NOTE As G#? [Practical Consequences Of Music Theory]

[@majorcatastrophe2829]

I'd not thought of this but, wow, yes it's like colour theory where you see colours differently, depending on which colours are next to it.... I like this guy!

[@scottt9382]

This guy is sooooo good. Such a simple channel but great clarity and insight.

[@SyntagmaStation]

The analogy to me is to know whether you are heading north or south, even when you are surrounded by the same scenery.

[@brianfraneysr.5326]

I always go with the key signature. If the key sig has flats I write all my incidentals as flats. If the key sig has sharps I write my incidentals as sharp. This automatically makes the manuscript easier to read, but also shows the direction of movement and therefore, resolution. No hard rules here, you do as you wish.

[@notoriouswhitemoth]

I was just wondering about whether to label chromatic notes as sharp or flat, and happened to come across this video!

[@thelawman4684]

While I love your videos, I have to disagree to a certain extent on this one. If one insists that G# and Ab are not the same note, then one should equally insist that the same is true of every note. The E in the E Maj scale obviously plays a different role than the E in C Maj or the E as an incidental in Cb Major, etc, etc, and yet no one makes that point. There is nothing special about the black notes on a piano. Either we accept that all notes of the same frequency are the same note, or all notes of the same frequency are different depending on their musical context / grammar.

[@roger26714]

I see your point , dude. This is excatly what I had thought.

[@cosimobaldi03]

That may make sense if you compare E with, say, Fb or D##

[@s.vidhyardhsingh3881]

Your video lessons resolve us into people who have a better understanding of music, 👍🏻👍🏻😊

[@donjenaro79]

The best explanation! This concept can free you of copying chord progressions that are 'good' and compose music as you hear it.

[@michaeljywang0619]

Nevertheless, I ageee that Ab and G# are functionally different. E major chord has E, G# and B, not E, Ab and B. And it is good you mentioned that temperament matters.

[@emsaye]

I love this. I always wondered about the deeper theoretical implications of the same pitch/ different note thing. Excellent!

[@therealkenk]

Great video and explanation. Thanks for the clarification.

[@aylbdrmadison1051]

Just to be specific, because clear and concise communication does matter: the notes *are* the same. That's why they are called _enharmonic._ The function of the notes however are not the same, because the interval is different. That's why it's important to name them correctly, and the whole reason why they have different names. Still an important subject and I am happy to see someone trying to make it clear why naming them correctly is so important. ^-^

[@majorcatastrophe2829]

Yes, the same, but the brain (ear?) hears them differently because notes, like colours, are heard/seen in context: that is to say, what notes/colours surround them changes their quality. And this is a real effect so why he says they are not the same...

[@eldjennemo2122]

I am definitely a huge fan of your videos ! The sense of pedagogy and the authentic passion that "are sweating from" your speech make all these difficult & non-obvious ideas so clear and so understandable ! One again, merci beaucoup !

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Thanks!

[@Tibromatic]

I have a counter argument to this. It just happens we start from C and we use sharp/flat in between notes but if you transpose your chords (e.g. use a capo) resolutions don't change at all. So the tendencies you talk about are the same in all notes. It depends on the context of the chords (and the key).

[@tomaszmazurek64]

I always find your videos interesting and you always manage to bring new perspectives even to ideas that I already know pretty well. I am thinking about subscribing to your "Complete Chord Mastery" course, however seeing how it's essentially paid per lesson, I would really like to know how many lessons are there in the whole course before I commit to it.

[@dbuck5350]

I always thought flat or sharp was just a way of showing the direction. Now I know there is a reason.Informative video.

[@theminztrel]

Excellent video Tommaso. Really well explained!

[@franksatya5680]

Loving your lessons. I'm very much a beginner. One thing that I find a little confusing when you draw the red arrows going up and down - this sort of implies that this effect of the notes wanting to resolve up or down only applies to the sharps and flats. But I assume exactly the same principal will apply to the naturals, (when playing in certain keys) but they will not have the same clues to their function attached to them. For example the chords E ... G# ... C#m will have the rising notes B...C...C# In this situation the C holds the tension of wanting to resolve up to the C# but there is no clue in the name. So this functional information is strangely a quirk that only applies when the unresolved notes are not naturals. Is that correct?

[@michaelinglis8516]

I really appreciate this lesson. I've not been completly clear on this until now.

[@NunyaBidnez]

Interesting insight!

[@AnOldGreyDog]

OK, I'm coming to this video really late. It makes sense, but am I correct in saying that the issue of resolving or not _must_ be a function of the harmony provided by the other notes in the chords? If you strip out the harmony, there is no way to distinguish E-D#-E from E-Eb-E. But does that mean that it's more a function of the resolution of the chord, rather than that bit of chromatic movement, or is the non-diatonic note enough on its own to signal the need for resolution, and the rest of the notes help determine whether it does resolve or not? Do you need all the chords, or is the final chord enough to provide context? What if you don't play the first one? So, instead of C-Fm-Am, you just played Fm-Am, would there be resolution then?

[@michaeljywang0619]

I think the reason you have the C→E (chords) resolved upward is because you played a high G in the C chord, followed by a high G# in the E chord. So you already have an upward motion (that's the reason, rather than the chromatic note being sharp). If yoy play the chord sequence C→Ab→Bb→C with the highest notes of each chord being G, Ab, Bb and C, it will sound resolved, while all of the chromatic notes are flat ones; yet it resolves upwsrd. Again, it is because I intentionally let the highest notes of each chord going upward.

[@jackmeginniss6327]

I haven’t viewed this but I will say that they have the same pitch. This reminds me of my early jazz lessons when I played a C triad in root position and my instructor asked me what chord I played. I replied C major and he responded “Are you sure? Where are you going?”. Point understood and well taken.

[@ottolehikoinen6193]

If the piece is in E, B, or F# major it's G#, if the piece is in Bb, F or C minor it's Ab, If the piece is in between, transpose.

[@littlefishbigmountain]

What do you call the note that E#, B#, Fb, and Cb resolve to then? Following the convention of giving it the next letter would that mean that, for example, E# would resolve up to F#. It would be impossible for E# to resolve to F natural because they’re the same pitch so in that context our ears would hear them as the same note and it would not resolve, obviously. But if it was called F instead to follow the sharp resolving to the next letter it would create ambiguity about what is F natural or F# which cannot happen, so it must be called F# because E# and F#, along with the other three pairs, are only a semitone away from each other unlike most other sharps and flats which are a whole tone apart. It’s actually really obvious when you think about it because those are also the four notes that are a semitone away from another diatonic note, so it makes sense that their sharps and flats are too, just like the naturals. I guess I just answered my own question 😅 I’ve just never thought of it before tho because I’ve never heard or noticed that accidentals continue on their way to resolve their tension (raising higher or dropping lower). I also wouldn’t have noticed it if not because of the clear and simple way Tommaso has laid it out here and my happening to have thought about it. That being said, there are other ways to realize that as it is hiding in plain sight. This is also a total tangent to the video. But seriously tho, his videos are great. Top notch 👍

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

You are correct, indeed, E# resolves up to F# ;-)

[@littlefishbigmountain]

MusicTheoryForGuitar Thanks for taking the time to read that and reply, and keep up the good work, man! 😄 You are a skilled teacher and a charming person

[@malloc_01]

Just another awesome lesson - thank you 🙏

[@nordfaen]

EXACTLY!!! THANK YOU :)

[@damien6685]

Absolutely fascinating

[@obecojb]

Great for bass players to understand the harmonic part of their job.

[@williamross6477]

When working with chromatic intervals, movements and resolutions I tend to think of the motion first, then the accidental. Upward minor seconds can create a strong, warm resolution, while downward tends to be softer and cooler. From Ab there is only one minor second, G, since Ab->A is an augmented unison (and that's not really a thing). Similarly, G# can only move up a minor second to A, not down to G. I see music not as a collection of notes, but a collection of intervals. Ab and G# may share the same frequency, but that is irrelevant. What matters is where they are going. Choosing to use Ab or G# doesn't mean that we resolve down to G or up to A, respectively. Instead, choosing to resolve down to G (via minor second) means we use Ab and choosing to resolve up to A means we use G#.

[@DarrylPowis]

Great video Tommaso!

[@PlayTheGuitarra]

Good video but I thought you were going to talk about the microtonal intonation differences between enharmonic notes because they do exist and to non fretted instruments like a violín or the voice Ab and G# do not actually sound the same...There was an essay about The Beatles describing that one of the reasons their unhortodox use of harmonies worked is because they got vocally all those microtonal differences right with their voices...To me it's a fascinating subject and as a singer you sometimes get the note right but you know that if you sing it slightly sharper or flatter you will get a very different emotional response and effect... Cheers from Argentina. Matías

[@marianstefanov4453]

THANK YOU! GOD BLESS YOU!

[@binface9]

Enlightening!

[@xcheesyxbaconx]

Great video. I have a small concern though. Say you're in the key of Eb major and have the progression vi -> V, giving the notes C Eb G -> Bb D F. This doesn't sound like a resolution, and in fact reversing the progression to a V -> vi sounds much more resolved. The composer needs to keep in mind that the root doesn't resolve to the leading tone, even if the root has a flat.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Good point Gerald. You are correct that in the key of Eb the note Eb does not resolve down. There is a difference between the alterations in key and the alterations not in key. In the video I talk about the alterations not in key. In your example the Eb is an alteration in key: to play in the key of Eb major you need to flat the E, A and B notes to begin with. In this case you are using sharps and flats simply yo indicate what notes are in the key. In the video, when I talk about resolving dissonances I talk about out-of-key notes (or alterations not in key)

[@JanBolhuis]

Thank you. Great video which I need to watch more than once :)

[@nosson77]

This doesn't seem to be the full picture. The examples that are given are all going back to the tonic and therefore sound resolved. Where as if for example you were using a secondary dominant like this chord progression: Am Dm B7 E. The D# note in the B7 chord goes to the E note in the E major chord yet it does not sound resolved because it's not going to the tonic note. On the other hand if you played Cm Fm Ab C Then the Eb note in the Ab major chord resolves up to the E note in the C major chord. Having said all that I think the explanation is that in the first case D# is resolving to E bit the E major chord itself needs to resolve. Or put another way the D# resolves to the E in the context of the chord but not in the context of the key. As for the other example I don't think the Eb note that is resolving to the E note but rather it's simply that the C major will sound resolved in a Cm key at the end of a cadence. And the resolution in this case is not that strong because it's not coming from the 5 or 7 degree of the minor scale.

[@discipleofluigi]

What, then, can be said of double sharps and flats? Are they too indicators of resolution or direction?

[@saftobulle]

You’ll have to think about the notes according to the key your in. So in F# for example you have the notes F# G# A# B C# D# E#. Between F# and G# you have either an Fx if it resolves up to the G# or a G if it resolves down to the F#, between G# and A# you have either Gx or A following the same principle, etc.

[@saftobulle]

So shortly, when sharpening a sharp you get a double sharp and when you flatten it you get a natural. Similarly, when you flatten a flat, you get a double flat, and when you sharpen it you get a natural.

[@philw8049]

Nice ty very helpful

[@kukumuniu5658]

cdef g# a b - harmonic minor cdef g a-flat b - harmonic major

[@matthias18gr]

Wot?

[@komfykulakaw6458]

I think you made a mistake C D E F G G# B is the Harmonic Major C D D# F G G# B is the Harmonic Minor . or C D Eb F G Ab B. in context I use flats when going down and sharps going up. or if it resolves differently on variants.

[@FullMetalDMZ]

Komfy Kulakaw I think you can’t have G and G# in the same scale because G# resolves to A (there’s no A in C harmonic Major), like it’s explain in the video. You can have Ab that resolves to the G.

[@kukumuniu5658]

I don't made a mistake :) I just use two scales with just one # or b,in other words: - ionian sharp 5, is third mode of harmonic minor(abcdefg#) - ionian flat 6 is harmonic major.

[@Zanthanee]

Great video.. I have a question? Why does the same note ( just written 1 octave up or down for example) occupy both a line and a space?

[@MrTlewen]

I have no idea what this guy is talking about. But I like his accent!

[@jonaswortmann5467]

Thx for sharing very helpful

[@MenkoDany]

ok but what if I flatten the progression, then Gb -> G wants to resolve to G#/Ab?

[@kazohin]

Great video. I guess you're talking about accidentals here, not key signatures. For example in the key of A major the F# can go to E or G# equally and doesn't resolve to G as it's out of the key.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Yes

[@jeremiahlyleseditor437]

Thanks for this. It was a help. You might do 7 videos covering the seven modes. That would be helpful

[@mariebcfhs9491]

Fm: F Ab C Am: A C E is actually very famous

[@1000eyes55]

Yes they are the same note depending which way you are going down is flat(b) up will be written sharp (#) the term is enharmonic

[@RandyBakkelund]

Very great video! Could you maybe consider making a video on Modal Chord Progressions and how to make resolutions or some type of cadence with the 6 modes besides ionian?

[@leaccordion]

Simply put the spelling of a major C chord for instance is C E G. C E Fx would be incorrect because F double sharp is a kind of augmented 4th and not a fifth. Incidentally look at the circle of fifths and you will perceive the correct groupings of notes. Another clue is tonic, super-tonic, mediant, sub-dominant, dominant, submediant and leading tone. Degrees must be respected...I II III IV V VI VII. Do you get it! A C7th is dominant ( and not major, as in CM7 ). So if you have an A# instead of a Bb it could be seen as a C6th augmented. That's why spelling is important and the key signatures show that fact. Whether a note resolves up or down is irrelevant unfortunately because the enharmonics are the same soundwise,.... but the logical visual order is skewed on the staff and in the mind.

[@michaelhansen8959]

Ha, very nice. Another secret in the notation of theory music

[@supertonicguitar]

Excellent explanation!

[@MrFree-vj8qj]

next video you could explain the difference between Ionian and the major scale for example

[@domagojoinky8262]

On fretless instruments like violin or in sung music G sharp and A flat are not equal notes, not even in frequency. G sharp is played slightly higher and pulls our ears to A while A flat is played slightly lower and pulls our ears to G. In equal temperament G sharp is equal to A flat in pitch or in frequency as it is played on the same key on piano or on guitar or bass with frets it is found on 4th fret of E string.

[@MVH5150]

Ok so if I'm not learning sheet music this doesn't matter at all ? Because I'm learning and sticking to the circle of fifths because it's shows the right scale notation for those keys because it's just makes things easier then to try to remember the right scale notation. Now if I'm improvisation with a other guitar player and I say we are in the key of Bbmajor and and the guy learn and played in that in A# major it's wouldn't matter since it will sound the same and only when I want to learn sheet music and be a musician, I would have to learn what you said in the video correct please reply back because I'm going crazy about the sharp and flat keys if I should learn it or because its making me feel horrible if I don't learn the right way

[@lawboss]

Small problem with your 'logic' -- Yes, the chords C - E - Am result in an ascending resolution in pitch...( G, G#, A pitch from one of the notes in each chord) BUT when I play the same Chords in reverse (Am - E - C ) the result is a 'descending' resolution in pitch (A- G# - G). Even though the G# (in my descending example) descends and resolves to G, one still wouldn't notate the G# as Ab. And yes, the 'tension' in the descending example still resolves (goes away--to use your words).

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

To my ear if you play Am E C the tension does not resolve.If you play C E Am the tension resolves.

[@lawboss]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Fair enough.

[@williamross6477]

E -> Am is a perfect cadence in harmonic/melodic minor, which creates a very strong resolution. E -> C (and C -> E) functions as a chromatic mediant motion which actually takes you further from the key center, building more tension instead of resolving it.

[@chetruane]

5:37 this is that meme where the car is powersliding into the exit

[@larrycornell240]

So E# in C# major wants to resolve up to the fourth? This theory is ad hoc. It’s a rule of thumb at best but does not explain why we end up calling C, B# in G# major.

[@diosdadoapias]

In reality, and using the same guitar chord shape Ab and G# have the same placement of fingers on the strings and frets so they produce same pitch and frequency or enharmonic. What is being explained in this video is an intellectualized difference between Ab and G#.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Every difference is "intellectualized."

[@slimbohernandez2827]

This is a non-answer. To the title of the video. The question is are G# and Ab the same note. Yes. G# and Ab are the same note. All this video does is explain that the function of these notes is different depending on how they are named. Its a good explanation of what it means when you see a G# or an Ab (or any # or b) in melody or harmony. G# and Ab may not function the same, but they are the same note.

[@jment34]

The answer is correct but this is a very longwinded and difficult to follow explanation. Counting out intervals on a piano keyboard would clarify this faster. It will also show the student that there are double flats and double sharps occasionally.

[@Gnurklesquimp]

I like a lot of non-functional harmony that has many clustered semitones, often I establish something as the ''home'' (Even if things don't lead you there through conventional western means), and I'm not sure what to call it when, for example, there's a 5, a 4, but also a sharp 4/flat 5, does anything go in that case? Or, if there is indeed no real orderly way of naming that note, is there an arbitrary preference that is generally agreed upon for the sake of clarity?

[@AntHenson]

Ten months later and that Eb still hasn't resolved. Damn you.

[@kurturoland]

1+1=2? No, it depends on the context. In a binary system that question doesn't hava a meaning. So, if I want to consider the common general and practical rule/system who doesn't know music theory, I would say YES. We are musicians, talking with another musicians, my answer will be NO. In the end is a dialectic issue that we can apply to everything in our lives (politic, economy, love heart broken problems...). Adoro il tuo canale, specialmente questo ultimo formato.

[@paulhansen5053]

Thanks for the good video -- I get it about upward and downward movement. I'm still at a beginning stage and noticed that the listing of major and minor triads starting with natural notes, shows F-Ab-C for Fm, C-Eb-G for Cm and G-Bb-D for Gm. However, on the major side it is D-F#-A, A-C#-E and E-G#-B. I thought this is because when we go up one half-step, we get F#-A-C# for F#m, and correspondingly going down a half-step for Db-F-Ab for Db major. So, is this simply to keep the note names consistent (DFA, ACE, etc), or is this also upwards and downwards movement?

[@paulhansen5053]

Thus, do we always say F#m instead of Gbm? Or always say Db major instead of C# major?

[@paulhansen5053]

Sorry, another question -- D#m is shown as D#-F#-A#, but it could also be Eb-Gb-Bb, or any combination of these. Is there a right way to think of it?

[@lesneak02]

J'adore tes vidéos et je ne comprends pas l'anglais vas-tu les faire français ? Bien sûr continue bravo

[@maruko8324]

I know I'm late but what about those notes that are full step? Like B to C, E to F and Vice versa? Are they also called, B#, Cb and so on? Like during our resolution to some tension in other chord progressions??

[@williamnathanael412]

Yes, I think in D major, E sharp resolves go F sharp.

[@subramaniamchandrasekar1397]

Why a song in A# root is called B flat? This time it is not moving up or down. Regards?

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

Because the key of A# does not exist, as it would have 10 sharps - 4 'simple' sharps and 3 double sharps (A# B# C## D# E# F## G##). The key of Bb has only 2 flats instead (Bb C D Eb F G A).

[@guilhermecampos8313]

This lesson is very eye opening... or should I say ear opening?

[@hgsamp]

Well, in the case of not fixed intonation instruments ensembles (strings , trombones, vocal ensembles, etc.) you will also hear that the frequency probably will not be exactly the same between sharps and flats because as this instruments allows "microtonal adjustment" the musicians tends to move to "pure intonation" ... Thats is very noticiable on strings quartets or even trombone ensembles.

[@dhaneshs131]

Interesting

[@davideliasguitarra7112]

They function different but sounds equal!!

[@chitailun]

This is how simple become complicated.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler" (attributed to Einstein)

[@3inch3swid38]

Hmmm

[@tenshin111]

I love your videos but this ones doesn't make sense. You've already said in the opening of the video that in the equal temperament G-sharp and A-flat have the same exact pitch / frequency. So they are the same note. If they were different notes, we would have more than 12 chromatic notes available which we don't (as long as we're talking about our contemporary 12-tone music system). The name of the note might change based on the context but that's just it - a context. It's still the same pitch.

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

A note is more than just a frequency. A note is more how your brain interprets that frequency rather than the frequency itself. Music theory simply reflects that. There is a reason why we have this strange notation that distinguishes between Ab and G#

[@mrstrypes]

What if I played a progression such as A E/G# G F#m A. Wouldn't this be an example of G# walking down? Or not because there is still tension?

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

The tension increases when you move from E/G# to G. Try to play A E/G# A and you will hear the tension being released. Again, G# CAN move down, no problems about that, but the musical effect is not a resolution (which is cool if that's the effect you are after)

[@mrstrypes]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Cool! But what if a song were in F# and the progression was I V IV ii I. Would that be an example of the G# moving downward into a resolution? (F# C# B G#m F#)

[@MusicTheoryForGuitar]

The ii chord does not resolve to the I chord in tonal theory. Also, the alterations in key (the sharps and flats you need to create a key) do not imply a tendency to resolve up or down. The video is only about the alterations not in key.

[@mrstrypes]

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar That's awesome! Thanks, my friend. Love your channel!

[@cajonaconaquetebotou]

Is this for a diatonic context or it always happens?

[@kukumuniu5658]

I have an idea for another example how one frequency can be two different notes, it all depends on the context and reference point which is tonic. C# and Db = one frequency BUT if we play scale c locrian then we have Db because the locrian scale has flat second and if we play b aeolian then we have C# because aeolian scale have natural second :)

[@user-ejsfidcknk]

where are you from

[@NullCreativityMusic]

Bbb said Hi

[@drifloonsupremacyassociation]

Oh, sheet. Here we go again

[@jjrusy7438]

to cleanly fit theory, both designations have to exist

[@CheapPartscaster]

TLDR Yes they are exactly 100.0% the same (pitch).

[@ileryon4019]

According to my piano roll.... there is no Ab

[@tocadolly2197]

Same exact note, different nomenclature to express context. There - I saved you 11 minutes!

[@wizardito7741]

So, why dont we delete those flat and sharp, to put a frekin name to those frecuencies?

[@AbhiBass96]

Meantones ruins this for us xD ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@cimerioporinternet5989]

El titulo viene en español lo vere cuando aprenda ingles bye

[@TheMentalblockrock]

A flat is slightly flatter than G sharp. I allways bend them slightly to account for this.

[@leaccordion]

Nonsense! Let your ears be the judge. Pianists don't bend notes.

[@TheMentalblockrock]

@@leaccordion Ans thats why pianists sound slightly out of tune in certain keys.

[@TheMentalblockrock]

@Verty In different keys they should be bent sharper or flatter.

[@TheMentalblockrock]

@@leaccordion Someone should invent a piano with a bending lever, much like electronic keyboards have pitch and modulation levers.

[@shinji391]

Yes. I just saved you 11 minutes. But if I'm referring to an E Major chord, the 3rd is G# because E minor's third is G.

[@DvdLr7943]

Summary of the video: only in theory is not the same.

[@littlefishbigmountain]

That’s actually not what he’s saying at all. I mean, no offense or anything. But he said, and then demonstrated, how our ears can hear the difference by listening to the tensions we feel Although saying it applies to every single note is a little mind-blowing and makes me want to experiment to see if that’s really true

[@larrycornell240]

BTW, I’m a big fan of these videos, this one just seems to try to reach a bit too far.

[@TheMoka4]

Can u please tell me how to play faster without having to pay for a course? Lol Thanks

[@TheMoka4]

@Verty very shit answer..... Lol