Is Adblock Piracy?

Alright, let's keep it civil in this comment section... please.
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[@mascot4950]

If blocking ads is piracy, spamming me with in-video ads when I've paid for YT Premium to get an ad-free experience is fraud.

[@EduardoRobertoSales]

I loved this comment. You are exactly right. If the business model was intro ads, then double charging would be very wrong.

[@Redicat]

Deal with it Linus I have Adblock and skip all the ads not illegal

[@niffumau]

KZbin ads, pre roll, post roll, merch, like and subscribe, sponsor spots...

[@Svedjano]

Came here to say this.

[@i4n]

So product placements in movies is fraud, too?

[@illixion]

I like how Linus's opinion on blocking ads shifted from "ad blocking is piracy" to "ad blocking *on KZbin* is piracy" to "ad blocking on KZbin is *ethical* piracy". When Luke mentioned that online ads can be malicious, it was ignored. Such consistency.

[@krieginphernjacobson]

I agree with the part on Luke, thats shouldn'thave been skipped over, but i assumed the argument from the beginning was "ad blocking on KZbin (and sites/apps similar to KZbin) is ethical piracy" but was just worded in a way that would get the most attention. Pretty much everyone (i think) knows that it isn't litteral piracy, and adblock functions differently on different sites, so I personally don't see inconsistency so much as that I see clickbait. Ads can be very malicious though so adblock can actually be the more ethical option for some people (imo).

[@whiteeye3453]

Piracy is when you watch movie that was downloaded not skip ads

[@coldbrew6104]

​@@whiteeye3453no logic here, you're just pointing out an example of piracy, maybe look up the definition of it more broadly?

[@sunbleachedangel]

People can be a bit biased when the bottom line is involved

[@whiteeye3453]

@@coldbrew6104 it means that skipping adds is no definition of piracy in fact calling adblock piracy is like calling safe searching piracy

[@setoman1]

I will block all ads everywhere, without exception. I care, and that is why I do it. I have an ethical problem with online advertising, and I believe the entire advertising industry should go bankrupt, and the sooner this will happen, the sooner creators can recover from it. Advertising has served its purpose, and it is no longer welcome.

[@setoman1]

I am a KZbin Red subscriber. Dafuq is Premium?

[@medianoob9010]

without advertising, we will live in a world of only monopolies at worst, and oligopolies at best. That would be a disgusting terrible world to even dream of... You might hate ads, but the world without them would be terrible

[@Crawdoodle]

@@medianoob9010if you have a good product… people will buy your product. You don’t need ads. Look at Tesla. They run zero ads

[@the_undead]

And then 6 months after we kill online advertising, 90% of content across the internet disappears completely because there will be no money to fund the platforms that display the content which will destroy the internet as we know it It would also give dramatically more power to the companies at the top, which would turn basically every industry into a monopoly or duopoly. And this is absolutely not a world you want and if you think you want it then you are an idiot because this is a world where we are all slaves to Amazon or similar

[@bingus4901]

Bro thinks hes a superhero because he blocks ads

[@BigBratMatt]

I would be willing to turn off adblock for youtube if they weren't scam ads. I got a million fake Mr. Beast ads and knew it wasn't worth keeping. I want to support my fellow creators, but it's hard. I want KZbin to moderate their freaking ads and add a report button. "Piracy" or not, I just want ads to be more moderated.

[@actually_it_is_rocket_science]

If you don't like the ads get premium.

[@refractivity3388]

@@actually_it_is_rocket_science That doesn't solve the problem at all, if they would just monitor the ads, so that we don't consistently get inappropriate ads on kids videos then frankly I wouldn't care, now, I don't watch that kind of content, but I can still say that it's an issue from what I've seen.

[@Remls]

@@actually_it_is_rocket_science Not a solution most people even have access to.

[@SoftwareRat]

@@actually_it_is_rocket_science I have premium but if you have this solution pay this ofc for everyone who wants ;)

[@theehans]

They Legit are Deleting Comments.

[@muqtxdir]

says the guy who created a video titled "block every online ad with this - pi hole on raspberry pi"

[@deeperinthered8249]

If I close my eyes and cover my ears while an ad is playing am I a pirate? If I buy a movie I'm told the price first. KZbin never tells you the price or obligation for watching a video. It's never so much as implied that watching an ad is obligatory to consuming content. Using an adblocker should simply never be considered piracy because it just (legally or morally) isn't.

[@nonyabisness6306]

The company buying the adspace has a contract with youtube saying they'll pay per ad shown, skipping it means it isn't shown so youtube doesn't transfer (part?) of that payment to the creator. So far so good. So no not watching it wouldn't break that, only skipping. But viewers have no contract with the creator to watch ads, neither with youtube. That's because the Ad-monetisation are an incentive offered by youtube to increase content so that they lure in more viewers. But they're not payment. But since Linus is making a moral argument...well yeah you'd be pirating by not paying attention. You'd be quasi stealing the investment of the ad company. At least according to one ver rich youtube that stands to gain financially from people watching ads.

[@whiteeye3453]

Exept one there isn't phone adblock and two after dekadę of users using adblock on computer their revenue grow ezpecionally So don't pull me this add is essential bullshit because it isn't

[@SquishyThing]

​@@nonyabisness6306Ad companies pay per click through. Even if people watch the entire ad, KZbin doesn't charge them. They only get charged for that Ad if the viewer clicks it, Which further supports adblock. Even if I didn't use adblock and just never clicked any of the ads, from the advertising company it'd be the exact same as using an adblock.

[@HerecomestheCalavera]

He'd be fine with that, as long as he is getting paid. He'd approve of everyone letting a big LTT playlist run when you're not on the computer so the ads will play. It doesn't matter if nobody is watching it, just as long as he gets paid.

[@RedVRCC]

​​@@whiteeye3453 You can get adblock on android in the form of AdGuard DNS, browser apps that support addons, DNS66, YT ReVanced, etc. If you rooted your phone, there's even more options. You can seemingly get adblock on iOS via installing a profile in settings to always use AdGuard's DNS and I think there are even ad blocking browser apps on iOS too. Not arguing, I hate ads too. Just letting you know in case you ever got sick of ads on phone and wanted an ad blocker.

[@MrzloPoletje]

After seeing that about 20% of the ads I'm receiving are scams, I don't feel bad at all for blocking them all. If google did a better job vetting their ads, I'd keep them as It wouldn't annoy me.

[@Nextempus]

So what you're saying is you're ok with pirating KZbin videos because you can't control yourself to not follow a scam ad? Which is fine if you're ok with pirating KZbin videos, and debatable if you can't control yourself.

[@anonymoususer2634]

@@Nextempus yep

[@anonymoususer2634]

@@Nextempus Maybe, jussssttt maybe. KZbin shouldn't be profiting from promoting scams? Just maybe though :)

[@FlameSoulis]

@@anonymoususer2634 then creators aren't profitting either. You are 100% missing the point: if KZbin doesn't earn anything, then creators can't earn anything either. Money doesn't just mystically appear in thin air. I pay for KZbin Red, and I run Adblock and PiHole. I pay KZbin to not watch ads and that ensures creators still get their share. When I wasn't on KZbin Red, I turned OFF Adblock on channels I supported, but active for others. This was talked about a lot in the past.

[@anonymoususer2634]

@@FlameSoulis yeah Linus isn't making anything? Lol...

[@LegendBegins]

Louis Rossmann has a fantastic response to this argument. The idea that a viewer is implicitly obligated to play (or does it go further? To watch and/or click on?) advertisements that are served to the user when LTT chooses to upload content to a free-to-use video hosting website is ludicrous.

[@rawdez_]

thanks for mentioning Louis.

[@friendlybane]

If only the videos were "free to make."

[@c0p0g]

@@friendlybane If only LTT had other revenue streams.

[@WeinerTouchy]

@@friendlybane Thrn get out of the business. He wants you to watch ads, watch his mid roll sponsor, AND buy merchandise to support the channel. Sorry, not my problem. What would Linus do if KZbin never gave an avenue to get paid in order to make content? Whatever his answer is, is what he needs to do to support himself, not blame his viewers for being g taken advantage of so be can live more comfortably.

[@theehans]

They Legit are Deleting Comments. NO ONE CAN TALK BACK, THEY ARE CENSORING US

[@Haarschmuckfachgeschafttadpole]

He's so out of touch it's scary.

[@ElderlyAnteater]

Cambridge Dictionary: "Piracy: the act of illegally copying computer programs, recordings, films, etc. to sell them at much cheaper prices". Oxford Dictionary: "the unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work." Could be why people think you're accusing them of illegal activity, not projection

[@rppiii6737]

I think it's more about the comparison to something illegal. I'm against ads because I don't want some stranger in my house talking about their politics, products, movies, or content. I watch content creators because I trust them and since they can't screen ads, I just don't want anything to do with them.

[@mr.madnessmc]

Ad revenue make up a very small portion of a content creator's revenue. Most money is earned through company deals, merchandise, and donations.

[@m84winzi]

@@mr.madnessmc But it is still revenue, revenue that is for both the video host (i e KZbin) and the content creator. If every person would use Adblock on KZbin and not have premium then KZbin would shut down. That is a fact. People need to understand that if something is "free" to use there still need to be a source of income. This base income in 99% cases are partially ads. Ads other companies pay to be shown to attract new and existing customers yes?. So if you take away the potential to show that advert the company that paid for the advert no longer get the exposure they paid for. So now they stop doing it in the future thus the income the host gets most of their income from is lost and so is also the part of the income that is distributed to the content creators.

[@uniquename6925]

​@twerking bollocks yes... In fact, the government can't even charge you with a crime unless you distribute it. Torrenting usually auto seeds/redistribute the data as well. So that's where things go iffy in the law afaik

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

@@m84winzi Google would never allow KZbin to be shut down since it is such a powerful tool so they would be more than willing to run it at a net loss if they have to

[@TheGlock30owner]

The German courts disagree with you and sided with Ad Block in a EU media companies lawsuit.

[@0106johnny]

Though they didn't disagree with it being piracy but rather with it being illegal. Two very different things

[@TheGlock30owner]

@@0106johnny No, German media companies sued Ad Block, claiming that they were piracy software. German courts ruled against media companies.

[@ajohnny3561]

@0106johnny Piracy is illegal, tho. By saying ad blocking is piracy, you are in some shape or form, calling it illegal.

[@0106johnny]

@@ajohnny3561 No, piracy can be illegal, it doesn't have to be.

[@The_Gallowglass]

It is no more piracy than hitting mute and looking at another tab til the ad is over. People are not obligated to watch ads for youtube content. The only ads I listen to or watch are the ones that the content creator makes themselves and integrate into the video, in the idea, the hopes that maybe they stand behind the product or service in question. In the old days, if there was an advertisement on television and someone didn't want to see or had no interest in that ad, they would change the channel and go back when it was over.

[@CrimsonFlameRTR]

It is actually. If you block it, it's not served. It's like you didn't even watch this video. Your point was addressed. 13:37

[@The_Gallowglass]

@@CrimsonFlameRTR If you hit mute on TV it doesn't get served. What's your point? I can block whatever I want from going into my mind.

[@CrimsonFlameRTR]

@@The_Gallowglass Yes. it's definitely served. The TV station can tell the advertiser that the ad played. If you block an ad from playing, then KZbin cannot tell the advertiser that the ad played. How is this difficult to understand?

[@pixlhound]

@@CrimsonFlameRTR so in that case, by not watching the ad, but having it playing, YT are committing fraud. They are claiming revenue from an advertiser that wasn't served to the person, that is worse than someone blocking the ad.

[@bradleymatthews9685]

@@CrimsonFlameRTRthe creator still gets paid if you don’t pay attention to the ad

[@ARG_ON18]

Ads became a plague of the modern internet. There are more and more ads being shoved in out faces with each year. On youtube, there was time when a single ad was shown on the start of the video, now it can be several ads at the beginning then several mid video, alongside with the sponsored parts of the video, which are now usually 1-2 minutes long. Wanting to view free content without ads is not a piracy. I'm ok with supporting creators, but by wasting my time viewing some useless garbage.

[@HatsuneSquidward]

"I don't like the cost, so I won't pay it". I don't disagree with you, AdBlock is warranted in a lot of cases. Blocking ads on KZbin isn't really even unethical. But it's still piracy (even if not in the legal sense)

[@rawdez_]

@@HatsuneSquidward just because some little boneheaded out of touch dude on internet thinks he can call it "piracy" doesn't mean it actually is.

[@Neo_GG]

@@rawdez_ Piracy: the unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work. (Definitions from Oxford Languages) Unauthorized because of the blocking of ads, which are used as the "pay wall" to use the content, which in this case, watching the content from the creator.

[@rawdez_]

@@Neo_GG Linus, you know, i wrote a comment for you. it cost 100 bucks. you owe me 100 bucks now. if you don't pay you're a pirate and should be prosecuted as all pirates should. actually, every comment I ever wrote under LTT video cost 100 bucks each, because I'm saying that now. LTT, you owe me thousands of dollars because you never paid for my comments you have pleasure to read. pay. thats exactly what Linus is doing now. he is putting a price ("you must watch ads") on what is actually free.

[@juzujuzu4555]

@@Neo_GG I'm not blocking ads, I'm just not loading those ads. Assume TV station says that every person needs to send money to some bank account of watching the content they are publishing on the public network. Do you think it's piracy to watch that content and not send money that they asked? In any case all IP laws are violence against the public. If you create something and sell it publicly, it should be public knowledge. Now we are essentially using police and the whole justice system to cause violence to people who do not follow commands created by the person who published something as public knowledge. Because people have been brainwashed to accept this current system, they absolutely cannot fathom how economy could work where IP protection wouldn't exist. There would still be trademarks, as that is like your signature and you cannot do forgery, and espionage would also be illegal, thus you can sell your product for certain period before competitors arrive. Linux and open source software already shows how this sort of economy could work. Science should be public like all knowledge that is published. It's insane to use violence to prevent others to use designs as inspirations, even if the inspiration is to exactly replicate. We already know that trademarks will have support, they can sell at higher price, they have the goodwill of the public on their side. Essentially this sort of economy develops new things more incrementally, smaller updates but more often. It benefits everybody, but the biggest giants who hold the most patents. The use of patents on all but the biggest companies have dropped dramatically. China etc. will copy you no matter what, and your patents can be copied by the giants and then they rob the whole market, and in the end pay you in damages after you win at court. But your business will be lost. Piracy is the morally right thing to do. It's opposing violence, and trying to force the society to develop on morally just place. Obviously it can be just pure selfishness, and most likely most piracy is just that. But the truth still stands.

[@RabbitTV95]

Imagine thinking, corporations will run less ads on their services if people stop using adblock.

[@TheMrlittletooth]

Of course they would. There's a reason why they don't coat a screen with ads.

[@tgdm]

@@TheMrlittletooth Let me tell you of the days of pop-ups and Bonsai Buddy...

[@A_Lesser_Man]

riiiiiiight, and purple people eaters are a thing, too....if you just believe.

[@A_Lesser_Man]

@Kifflom! that requires your acceptance...

[@4450krank]

Some ad blockers allow payment for ads to be shows even if the ad blocker is active.

[@scorpiomelancholia1559]

I'd be willing to turn off my ad blocker when ads ceases to be a thing tbh

[@the_undead]

So you'd be willing to turn off your ad blockers with the internet basically ceases to exist, gotcha

[@scorpiomelancholia1559]

@@the_undead not a con when twitter folds, or youtube ends bro but keep trying

[@the_undead]

@@scorpiomelancholia1559 95% of the websites that make the internet what it is only exist because their owners can make money off of advertising, and then 80% of the content that exists on said websites only exists because the content creators can make money off of it

[@morothar_loki]

Problem/Weirdness with YT: Small content creators can't even be "paid in ads", they have to offer the content for free... This contributes further to the intransparency on the "deal" that we pay in ads...

[@pvshka]

You're right. The huge mistake Linus is making is the argument that ad-for-content is a contractual obligation you've agreed to, when that's not the case. KZbin's ToS nowhere mentions a "transaction", simply that "KZbin MAY serve you ads...", nowhere are you obliged to actually watch, or even accept those ads.

[@contenteater]

Until YT allow all creators the opportunity to be paid for their work, “Piracy” is the only moral answer to stop YT profiting from the ads they insert on smaller channels. 🙂

[@mystith]

@@pvshka Please, enlighten me as to how you would decline an ad, and still watch the video, without using an ad blocker. Ignoring the ad? There's no way for KZbin to even know whether you ignore it, and so that is irrelevant- you're also paying in time, anyway. And again, whether or not it's a contractual obligation doesn't change that, under normal function, you are required to watch ads before videos that serve them- otherwise, you would not be able to watch the video.

[@dalmationblack]

​@@contenteaterobviously youtube should be making money from smaller channels, who the fuck do you think is paying to host and serve the video? running a site like youtube is incredibly expensive, it's insane to think it's wrong of them to not just host videos as a charity

[@contenteater]

@@dalmationblack So you think it’s fair for both channels to be paying “Rent” to YT in the form of their respective audiences having to watch ads (understandable that YT has overheads as some any website). But then YT then only pays the larger channels, not the smaller ones? How would you like to work for free until your employer believes that you have been there long enough or are popular enough before you receive a salary? YT needs Creaters, and Creators need YT. The need is mutual for both to profit.

[@jarik7658]

Tech Tip: You can skip most unskippable ads by clicking/tapping on the "i" and select "stop showing this ad". The ad will immediately be skipped. There seem to be some special ads that don't allow this, but it works for most.

[@SEL_69]

Ah, but according to LTT that makes you a pirate!! (Btw, I do that too 🤣)

[@diaq_]

i do that too

[@D1GItAL_CVTS]

This is just adblocking with extra steps

[@flightlessdutchman6698]

That only happens if you enable personalised ads. If you have that turned off, like me, this doesn't work.

[@diaq_]

I primarily do this on my phone, since I have ad blocker on my computer.

[@TheSlothFather]

"I never said it was illegal guys, calm down, I only said it was literally a crime." The gaslighting from Linus is palpable

[@anonony9081]

In that case ahoy matey's. I would stop ad blocking on KZbin and happily pay the $10 a month for red if they stopped censoring content creators but I refuse to pay into a system that treats its creators like shit. Same with removing dislikes, something that I am not aware of a single person who supported it. It's so obvious that KZbin is only catering to the corporate side of things, my $10 a month means nothing to them

[@actually_it_is_rocket_science]

KZbin's approach is probably the best of just about any video platform right now. Most of the money goes directly to creators unlike TikTok or Facebook. The problem is since we live in a capitalist society companies get to decide where they spend their ad budget. If they don't want it to be put in front of a video that they find objectionable they aren't forced to do so.

[@actually_it_is_rocket_science]

Also content creators that can't have ads can get you to premium money. It's only when they are demonetized for things like copyright claims that they can't. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hoO0h62Get6fmsU if you want to help those who are demonetized because of the content get premium

[@themysticfocus]

10? They charge me 17

[@ghajik.]

i pay $2.5 per month for family lol.

[@theehans]

They Legit are Deleting Comments.

[@adrianf.8889]

Linus... Dude... I believe everyone gets your point. The issue is with the use of the term "piracy". By definition content piracy is not the blatant refuse of participation in a transaction, its the unauthorized (that is without the right) use or distribution of a software or service. Circumventing Netflix is in fact piracy because the content on it is behind a pay wall. That is what unauthorized use looks like. However, Google, the parent of KZbin and Chrome has on the Chrome store adblockers. They knowingly leave them there, because ads are not pay walls. Ads are something you have the right to circumvent. If they were mandatory, then KZbin would just remove the free access and turn everything to KZbin premium. However, you have the right to dispatch them in anyway you like. Call it something else, call it damaging to creators, call it unethical, call it whatever you like but not piracy. The difference is in the user having, or not having the right to do it.

[@b0bhart]

You haven't made a single point there except state that you are right

[@IllNacs]

@@b0bhart Cringe + Ratio

[@Kuriyu94]

Agreed, if he used a word other than piracy his statement might have been better received. Piracy is stealing something digital.

[@craig.9229]

@@IllNacs + cope

[@TheZurc1996]

I agree although I don't understand why people are still upset when at the end of the video he states that he realizes we don't like the use of the word "piracy" and we can call it whatever we want. Did we not get what we wanted which was for him to phrase it differently?

[@akasta]

The German constitutional court has ruled that using an AdBlocker or related technology does not constitute copyright infringement; this decision has been apealed at least six times by one of the largest publishers in the country, but the company creating the ad-blocking software has won each case.

[@PikkaKok]

I think that people have a problem because of 2 things that were at least partially addressed in the video: 1. "Piracy" might not be the correct word here by the dictionary definition. 2. If we start flagging adblocking as "piracy" that might lead to a bad place. I don't really care what we call it but I can acknowledge that google/youtube runs on ads. Thus, when I use adblock, somebody does not get paid. I can live with myself. Linus does not tell you to use or not use adblock and you can make the desicion for yourself.

[@jammaschan]

That's a fair take

[@codycarter2701]

What if we made an AdBlock where people do get paid? I think the assumption of the adblockers is that they all have to work like pi-hole. Where a DNS request for the ad never leaves your network / device. I'm not a browser dev, but would it not be possible to make the request, server serves the ad, but the browser not run that line of code? I guess technically if the server redirects certain portions of the ad to another server they would be able to track it that way. In essence I think that this would be akin to ignoring the ad completely, which ethically I think is fair.

[@jammaschan]

@@codycarter2701 Well, no matter which way the adblock is done, someone is losing out on the transaction, and you gained something out of it. I run adblock, so I'm not against it, but you have to know that even if the creator gets paid through the method you listed, and google gets the ad money to sustain the platform, the people who put ads in will see that a lower amount of people are buying their goods for the money they paid for the ad. They will be less likely to put ads on youtube and then it would affect youtube. I daresay the people who don't use adblock would probably still give those companies enough attention, but still it's not a win-win situation. (I would still use adblock though)

[@codycarter2701]

@@jammaschan I completely agree that someone is losing money somewhere. I think the point that I'm trying to argue is that with other media, such as tv services and radio broadcasts, a person can completely ignore the advertisements by tuning to a different channel or station and then tuning back later. I believe that this is a known risk for any company that purchases an ad spot on these media. I can't remember if they mention it anywhere or it's out there on the internet, but if the switching of a radio channel to ignore a provided ad wouldn't be considered piracy (just harmful to the company that bought the ad), then allowing an ad server to send the ad to your computer and not have the browser provide that information to you shouldn't be considered piracy. Again agreeing with your point that no matter what at least one person in the chain is getting hurt, but one has been aware of getting hurt for a long time.

[@jammaschan]

@@codycarter2701 no I completely agree that it isnt piracy. I think piracy is just a bad word to describe using adblock. From what Linus says, he kinda realizes using the word piracy wasn't that correct either. I do understand what you wanna say though.

[@itogi]

Thank you Linus. Because of you I will now download an adblocker AND an ad skipper

[@raawesome3851]

Why?

[@Remls]

@@raawesome3851 He mentioned KZbin Vanced / Sponsorblock in this video.

[@raawesome3851]

@@Remls so? He said it's still piracy.

[@Remls]

@@raawesome3851 wut You asked why they were downloading adblockers/skippers. Whether or not it is piracy is irrelevant.

[@Muxeroth]

@@raawesome3851 and?

[@kmmmsyr9883]

Adblock is justified self-defence. >Most ads are "targeted" ads that don't respect my privacy. >Ads slow down web pages and increase the resources used by my web browser. >Some ads prevent me from seeing the content on web pages. >Some ads have sexual themes that I don't want to see. Plus they don't even verify my age before showing me the ad. That is literal sexual harrassment, and even sexual abuse of child if the person who is seeing the ad is below 18. >Some ads are literal scams. >Some ads are literal malware. I always have my uBlock Origin on. Installing it is the first thing I do whenever I install a web browser and I never turn it off unless it breaks the web page I'm viewing. Having an adblocker is like locking your door at night, it's a necessary thing to do when viewing any website.

[@_dopelgander_9646]

Google have options for targeted ads.

[@martinvicencio7656]

so, according to Linus if you change channels between commercial breaks on tv you're a pirate

[@effefffffffffffffffffffff]

And they also seem to be just fine with you blocking ads elsewhere on the internet. It's only wrong if you are blocking ads on youtube. What a joke of an argument.

[@PrinceRoyceFan667]

You pay for TV though

[@jaymo7703]

@@PrinceRoyceFan667 Broadcast TV is free.

[@demonpride1975]

@@PrinceRoyceFan667 and yet still get commercials who knew, 2023 is a thing you know if i pay for tv then i should get zero commercials. that is why i stopped paying for it.

[@A1stardan]

​@@effefffffffffffffffffffff it's only piracy if you block ads that aren't helping me make money. Meanwhile, I'll also make money by selling merch, sponsor ads, other monetary means, but still want more money from ads 😅

[@MrRoko91]

I'm not using ad-blocker but I agree with Louis Rossmann's take on this.

[@MiguelX413]

What is it

[@ajmarecki]

@@MiguelX413 yeah what is it

[@eriktherandomstuff3368]

Yeah I think Louis had some good points.

[@jerichosainte]

Agree, regardless of the morality of it, it's not piracy by definition and shouldn't be claimed as such. The extreme of this being the case reminds me of the black mirror episode fifteen million merits.

[@marcellodepaula4749]

It's complicated i understand linus and i think he has a good point. Louis also has some nice takes , however i gotta stick with linus on this one. I mean not in the legal way nobody gonna arrest you because of addblock however you do watch a content that you aren't paying, and making content costs money, and ads are a way to pay for it, this hurts especially small channels that depend on ads to keep going. I get using addblock on sites that keep weird ads like those with porn or scams, however it's not the case here.

[@CheshireTomcat68]

I'm glad to know that skipping the rest of an ad doesn't stop the creator getting payout. It was always a question I'd never seen an answer to.

[@TheElly750]

Call it piracy if you want (even tho it doesn't fit the definition). I call it internet security and protection.

[@krimmAnims]

how does it not fit the definition?

[@rawdez_]

@@krimmAnims There is no bargain I agree to when loading a random webpage or watching youtube. I just go to the website and ask it to serve me it's page, it says sure and gives me the html/js/css/any linked resources, and then my browser goes "I'll load this, this, and this and the rest is known junk we don't need". Never was there any agreement. its NOT piracy, because there is no bargain associated. there is no price tag and so there is no piracy

[@lukatag7612]

@@rawdez_ The ads are the bargain. It's not a free-to-watch website.

[@ExcedereInInfinitum]

@@lukatag7612 If what you say is true, then youtube shold block users that bypass ads with an anti adblock feature, so we could see what happens to the site.

[@lordofcheez5]

@@krimmAnims look up the definition then you will figure it out my guy!

[@Tankrat6]

Linus, when you said using adblocker was piracy, people are getting hung up on the legal ramifications of that term. Piracy is the abuse of copyrighted material and it carries a hefty fine and jail time, and also opens offenders up to large lawsuits. Since a lot of us associate the term "piracy" to digital copyright infringement during the DMCA lawsuits on LimeWire and it's users. In other words "piracy" is the unauthorized sharing of copyrighted content for or not for profit. An example for today's piracy is torrent uploading of a movie. But the torrent downloading of a movie is legally theft. Your Netflix example was theft. Now if a person who was a subscriber to Netflix then recorded movies off Netflix and then shared them by uploading them, that is Piracy. I would have highlighted that use of adblocking is the "deprivation of your company's income" or the short hand "theft of income", since that is what is happening not "piracy".

[@notjoss]

Yeah I think Linus made a mistake assuming most people wouldn't think of the legal definition of piracy, rather than a more subjective meaning of the word, when I say fraud or assault, those words are backed up with a legal meaning to avoid ambiguity. Saying a word with a legal meaning and a non-legal meaning in a context where the legal meaning is probably more likely to be used was the entire issue on twitter.

[@rawdez_]

its not even "theft of income" because actually nobody ever agreed to watching ads for "the privilege" of watching stupid lienus content. do you see a legal agreement between you and lienus to watch ads every time you open a page in browser with an LTT video? no? you know why? because its not there. its just lienus' HOPE that people would watch ads and bring him revenue, nobody actually obligated to watch any ads to watch content on youtube. saying that people who do not owe you shiz are pirates just because they don't do as you hope/expect they would is a very bad attitude. from now on I actually would ignore any content from lienus because a) his stupid mug and b) his stupid filled with sponsors and overpriced crap videos don't deserve anyones time and should be ignored just like he and his stupid opinion on youtube ads.

[@jeffnew1213]

I am not turning off Adblock for KZbin ever, and might pay for a solution for blocking KZbin ads (but not to KZbin) if I had to. I block ads in general. They do not target me. They are of no interest. Equating ad blocking with piracy is an poor comparison.

[@BigPeter93]

I wish I was as self entitled as you are.

[@jeffnew1213]

@@BigPeter93 Practice!

[@InfinitoTemporal]

Common jeffnew1213 based moment

[@Kni0002]

Screw ads

[@jeffnew1213]

@@Kni0002 The uBlock Origin browser plug-in blocks KZbin and most other ads. They promise to keep updating the code as KZbin tries to thwart them.

[@Mysterious_RSA]

We get bombarded with ads on every aspect of life, on a daily basis. They are everywhere... I came home from the hospital today and I got half a song, a bunch of ads. The trip was about half an hour in a car

[@Zwank36]

Piracy is when you steal someones content, copy it and sell it. Blocking ads on KZbin isn't Piracy, its not even copyright infringement. Sick to death of media attempting to warp this perception. And FYI I roll with YT Premium and Adblock (because I don't want ads or viruses).

[@krimmAnims]

@@NetDive finally someone with a brain

[@MautreXvids]

But when a channel have ad on the videos, the channel have made the deal with the viewer that the content is free if you watch the ad. If you don't uphold your end of the deal it is not your content to consume. He said that he don't mean the legal definition of piracy so why are you even making you argument about that? He said it piracy inte the way that you take what you want without paying.

[@GamingLovesJohn]

@@NetDive Adblocking is not piracy though from a legal perspective.

[@MetalY2KMusic]

Technically piracy is just acquiring things without paying for it. You don't have to distro it or anything

[@Zwank36]

@@NetDive Yeah. but you’ve infringed copyright…

[@BrandonShere]

The definition of piracy: "Online piracy is the practice of downloading and distributing copyrighted content digitally without permission, such as music or software."

[@62433N]

We should also be looking at the definition of advertisements. We are asking for the same moral standards by putting advertisements in the same place of a purchase payment or a subscription payment which is absurd

[@BigPeter93]

You can use whatever word you want but it's at the end of the day you're consuming content that you didn't pay for by blocking the ad.

[@iamsad4228]

@@BigPeter93 boohoo, the guy who spends 200k or whatever on cameras/computers, doesn't get my 0.15$ contribution. Oh no how ever will I sleep at night

[@RafikisAnts]

probs even less than that

[@ZeranZeran]

That's not what happens when people block Ads. I'm not downloading anything, I'm refusing an additional piece of media I don't want forced on me. I pay for my internet monthly.

[@Ultrajamz]

I can choose to block whatever I want entering my network.

[@_aullik]

In that case I have pirated the internet. I'm watching sponsorship messages in your videos, but I'm not watching ads everywhere. Eventually the whole ad business will collapse anyways. Really wanna know how the internet is going to work then.

[@actually_it_is_rocket_science]

Paywalls and pay for features

[@SimonBauer7]

@@actually_it_is_rocket_science ...that get bypassed anyways. i guess it is more like selling your data

[@theehans]

They Legit are Deleting Comments. NO ONE CAN TALK BACK, THEY ARE CENSORING US

[@theehans]

help plz

[@ExZ1te]

Download sponsorblock extension don't need to watch sponsorships anymore

[@Oxyon84]

I think the big misconception is that somehow a viewer has business with LMG, while in fact the viewer has business with YT. How the LMG business with YT is arranged is not important to the viewer at all. When you sneak in to a concert you are stealing from the organization arranging the concert, not from the artist. If the artist has an agreement with the organizers to get paid per sold tickets does not really matter. It's just the organizers putting the risk on the artist. Like YT does with content creators. It's funny how content creators feel like they own YT, while YT just needs to make money for Google.

[@EduardoRobertoSales]

I do have KZbin Premium, but disagree with Linus. If a platform wants to put their content behind a pay wall, then do so. You compare yourself with Netflix, but do not adopt the same business model. The reason people are on KZbin is to build a following and be accessible to a large audience. I don't want to waste my time closing abusive ads in every other site I access. KZbin have (or had, I think it failed) premium series behind its red subscription, you could opt to produce content to that platform if want your content behind a pay wall, but of course won't because is way more lucrative to have a mass following and do sponsorships, like the channel success indicates.

[@LegendBegins]

Great commentary on the business models that most people miss.

[@mossup-]

for the extra content i went to floatplain, adding youtube red for some people is another subscription they can not afford as there is allready so many other subscriptions required to play games, watch movies etc. i think money from ads should be seen as a bonus rather than a revenue source.

[@Legoreaper2007]

Well, Netflix dosent have ads because it's a subscription that you pay monthly( I think)

[@blankbackgroundimage457]

I know I'm one month late but I disagree. The ads ARE the pay wall that you pay. LMG has a lot of other sources of income, but not all yt channels do. Not all people have their channels just to build a following and no other reason. Some of them actually created their channels BECAUSE they want to make money.

[@franticblue9376]

Piracy is copying and distribution blocking or skipping adds is not the same

[@michaelwilliams2329]

“the unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work.” Is the definition. You watching something outside of the perimeters set in place to obtain said content is an “unauthorized use”.

[@michaelwilliams2329]

Will you go to jail? Of course not it’s an adblocker. But you have a fundamental misinterpretation of what “Piracy” actually is.

[@theehans]

THEY ARE DELETEING OUR COMMENTS, IF YOU SEE THIS MESSAGE ITS BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN DELETED

[@thetechrealist]

@@michaelwilliams2329 unauthorized use is without the right. You have the right to not watch ads you dunce.

[@frozenturbo8623]

@@theehans Spam crapton and you'll end up getting deleted, That's a you problem.

[@deano_s2k]

Piracy IS illegal by definition, so you're wrong there. I am not pirating your content. I am parsing what I do and do not want to see. Just like how I have the freedom to choose to skip through any moment of this and all youtube videos.

[@Ryan-093]

Ah yes, parsing access barriers is a favourite of mine too.

[@ragtop63]

Wrong! The relationships define the obligations. The relationship between a creator and KZbin is not the same as the relationship between the viewer and KZbin. The viewer DOES NOT PAY the creator. The viewer is not obligated to pay KZbin (it's a free platform). KZbin does pay the creator. KZbin is OBILGATED to pay the creator (if said creator meets the min requirements for monetization). They are two completely different relationships and one does not have anything to do with the other except for how KZbin chooses to create the revenue needed to fulfill its obligation to the creator. KZbin could choose to sell merch to fulfill that obligation instead of using ads but the viewer IS NOT OBLIGATED to buy said merch. Sorry Linus, you're just wrong and your personal feelings on the matter are getting you this flak.

[@CheatDayKerry]

Wow didn't realize that fast forwarding through commercials is pirating .... That's ridiculous. Linus is so convinced and pretty sure he's alone. Wish I could see the dislikes.

[@FlergerBergitydersh]

He specifically said that wasn't piracy. The commercials and sponsor spots you fast forward through still get him paid. The ads that you block don't, because they physically don't exist.

[@SchwachsinnProduzent]

The current like to dislike ratio is ca. 700 vs 900 (with the "Return KZbin Dislike" addon)

[@HughMungoose]

@@FlergerBergitydersh If he gets paid for the fast forwarded ad then Linus becomes the pirate.

[@mrcrackerist]

now 1100 vs 1200 with "return dislike button" extension

[@RWKropf]

@@SchwachsinnProduzent I wonder if this ratio would be changed if most people were able to see the dislikes without an extension. For example, I tend to simply ignore something instead of hitting the dislike button cause that button is pretty much useless now (without everyone downloading an extension).

[@yarbskoo7217]

I feel like this is a misuse of the word "literally". Literally, piracy is just shorthand for copyright infringement and applies to unauthorized downloads of software you have already paid for, out of print media, and programs that were never made available for purchase in the first place. Not wanting to pay for things is a common motivation behind piracy, but it is not the definition of piracy.

[@windicatedtaren2485]

If you're going to correct someone get it right

[@SurgStriker]

I think an additional viewpoint to consider is that when you buy something-you are told how much it costs so you can decide whether or not you want to buy it. if the cost is too high, you don't buy. As such, youtube should have a more stable and open 'cost'. As in a set rule for how many/how long of commercials there are for videos. I realize part of it they leave up to the content creators (they can add some in, choose where they show up mid-video, at least they used to) but there is just absolutely too much variance. And it changes over time. I got really tired of 2+ minute "dr squatch" videos at the start and end of every video like i used to get. And some creators would have literally 2-3 ad breaks in the middle of a 5-7 minute video. But you don't always get that information up front, almost like you are supposed to pick an item you want off the shelf, they go up to the register and have to start the transaction before they tell you the cost. Question i have though, how does it actually work as far as ad payments-if you press "skip ad" does youtube/the CC get less revenue? What if you have an ad blocker that starts the ad then cancels it after 1-2 seconds. There might be some middle ground people could reach if we knew the details on it, like an ad blocker that would only skip after it hit a specific time period that would give youtube/the creator full payment, while not forcing the viewer to sit through it all. Mid-video ads can get really annoying too when you aren't sitting at your computer while you watch, then a 2 minute ad pops up so you have to get up and move back to the computer to press the skip now every few m inutes when a new set of ads comes up

[@onemorepsi]

I'll stop blocking youtube ads when they stop demonetizing creators based on their content.

[@Vartazian360]

And censoring so much stuff out there. And heavily slanting search results in favor of only views they support.

[@theehans]

They Legit are Deleting Comments. NO ONE CAN TALK BACK, THEY ARE CENSORING US

[@SchwachsinnProduzent]

In a way that demonetizes all creators a bit and levels the playing field a tiny bit. Content creators, who don't lick KZbin's boots, have to get sponsors of their own (mostly Raid Shadowlegends) to get any ad money anyways. If more creators work directly with the companies wanting to advertise, Google's power to just take away all their income, just because they don't like them, gets greatly reduced.

[@ricahrdb]

Aren't you basically also "demonitizing creators" by blocking ads on their videos?

[@mrbust999]

@@ricahrdb nah bro, not watching ads equals KZbin doesn't get paid.

[@TheBarrej2006]

Blocking ads is similar to not paying a suggested donation. You are under absolutely no legal or morale obligation to pay it (or watch the ads), but you need to understand that the people where generally expecting to get that, and structured their organization around that. That is on them, not you, but if you want them to continue to operate the way they do, that model needs to continue to work for them.

[@eastjavaID]

But, I pay premium and still have in video ads?

[@kipter]

Blocking ads isn't piracy and piracy isn't bad

[@halocraze9839]

Why not? Why should you get something for free?

[@jotarokujo312]

@@arottedfruit Based

[@HDTDNOVIV]

​@@halocraze9839If ad companies could force you to watch an ad before every breath they would.

[@halocraze9839]

@@HDTDNOVIV but they can't

[@Alpha-kt4yl]

@@halocraze9839 Maybe they can't force ads down our throats right now, but if we let them they will eventually

[@HyperGadgets]

I think Louis Rossmann has had the best take on this issue.

[@Sn0wman_308]

Agreed. I just watched his video right before this one and I gotta say... I kinda lost some respect for Linus. He's coming off really butthurt over nothing. I hate to say it, but... I'm not watching KZbin videos to pay the content creator's rent. I'm watching because I'm bored. Supporting creators should be OPTIONAL. If you don't like not getting paid, don't make the video available for free.

[@Sn0wman_308]

Agreed. I just watched his video right before this one and I gotta say... I kinda lost some respect for Linus. He's coming off really butthurt over nothing. I hate to say it, but... I'm not watching KZbin videos to pay the content creator's rent. I'm watching because I'm bored. Supporting creators should be OPTIONAL. If you don't like not getting paid, don't make the video available for free.

[@Jack_Saint_Archive]

I do agree with Louis on this issue. I think Linus is using the wrong definition for piracy.

[@dekumutant]

The problem here is there is absolutely no contract regarding watching ads on a video. I pay for premium so i'm not actually doing this but watching an ad is in no way equivalent to paying for a ticket. This contract to view an ad doesn't exist. I understand that ad sense supports you and as a viewer i can choose to watch an ad to do that but watching the ad is NOT the default state.

[@tanujgangrade]

Actually, it is. The KZbin terms of service do mention that the platform may serve you advertisements on videos. That is their charge for viewing videos on KZbin without any sort of payment in real money. The currency of the charge is seconds. It’s that simple. Again, you do have the choice to not pay (by using an adblock) but i think it’s fair to say you are viewing content without paying for it, aka piracy.

[@norkris8729]

@@tanujgangrade Key words being: May and Piracy( take som1 elses content, making copies of if and selling it or just handing it out)

[@krimmAnims]

@@norkris8729 so the thousands of pirated music I have stored on my ipod is now not considered piracy? sweeet!

[@norkris8729]

@@krimmAnims If you got it from som1 that copied it, they did the pirating :)

[@dekumutant]

@@tanujgangrade Nowhere does it state that it's their charge. The possibility of being served ads does not make it a payment for consuming the video. It is not as black and white as a transaction for a service. Which is piracy if you get around that.

[@Finkelfunk]

What a hill to die on. Now Linus, please explain to me the following: If I use an adblock, it is piracy, okay. But what if I don't use one and just skip your sponsored segment manually? Is that piracy? Okay what about me leaving the room while the ad plays? Is that piracy? Because sure as hell the advertiser does not want me to do that. If I click the "skip ad" button, which makes you automatically not receive any revenue, is that piracy? Is it piracy to close my eyes and stick a finger in my ear while going "LALALALA" during the ad? Again, not what the advertiser had in mind and if they'd knew I am doing that they sure as hell wouldn't serve me advertisements. Is it piracy then to not pay attention to the product? Is it not precisely the same if the product wasn't the least bit relevant to me or is that now the fault of the advertiser for me not being remotely interested in their products? Or is it about your revenue stream? So as long as your revenue stream is not influenced this is all fine with you and not piracy? Ask your sponsors how they would like it if everybody just skips the sponsored segments of your videos and I think you'll hear pretty much the exact same thing. My point here is the following: The people that claim piracy are usually just the people losing revenue, trying to somehow guilt trip people. I get it, it sucks losing that revenue stream, but would the advertiser not have a point if he were to claim the same? So is the implicit attention-contract for advertisements now the standard? Well then we are back to square one of not even being allowed to skip sponsored segments. Your entire point is practically meaningless because you define piracy from your own arbitrary point of view. If we were talking about a legal standpoint we could argue about it but you basically just pick a position that hurts you financially and then decide to make that the standard when this is, again, completely arbitrarily chosen.

[@62433N]

Even from a legal standpoint, advertisements cannot be considered as a means for payment. You can sell ads. That’s for sure. But you can’t make people pay to not watch ads. KZbin Premium is not KZbin without ads. It’s KZbin with KZbin red videos (only for premium subscribers). Plus, you don’t get to see ads as a bonus. This is the same for Spotify too. The premium users get to download music offline + they don’t get to hear ads. But that does not make free users skipping or blocking ads pirate. What would make them pirate is if they were using other means to listen to the music or watch the KZbin premium only videos from other websites and distributing it. Here we can clearly see a pattern similar to stealing. And that’s what makes it piracy. Ads are like luxury to businesses that can afford it. Which is why putting up ads cost money. Have you ever paid money to see an ad? I guess Linus did. Otherwise he would not put it in the same place as a paid subscription and ask for the same moral standard by calling it ‘piracy’ with his delusional Netflix example

[@petrolfever]

You taught me about pi-hole, therefore advocating blocking your own ads. oops.

[@ST3ADYxKICKS]

Is it stealing if you are at a conference and they have freebies bundled with advertisements and you remove the advertisements to leave at their table and take the freebie? No, not it’s not. For the same reason this cannot be classified as “Piracy” or “theft”.

[@EnZoFPS]

and it gets even worse trying to say that "not all piracy is illegal". Piracy is literally unauthorized distribution and/or use of copyrighted material.

[@Jack_Saint_Archive]

Yes, I agree. Also AdBlocks are not considered piracy by the law.

[@wut_the_fug]

Terms of service violation? Yes. Piracy? No. Confusion of semantics? Very.

[@skia5635]

People who pay for KZbin Premium have to watch your sponsored segments in videos, so you're pirating those people in another way.

[@frozenturbo8623]

Meanwhile, the "Pirates" are using Ublock origin with Sponsorblock.

[@BigPeter93]

To be fair content creators have to do in-video ad reads BECAUSE people started using adblockers. I miss the good ol days when KZbin Red was a thing and adblockers weren't.

[@skia5635]

@@BigPeter93 I don't think so, there are videos on LinusTechTips and Techquickie dating back to 2014/2015 that have sponsered segments at the beginning or end of them; uBlock origin was created in 2014.

[@skia5635]

@@BigPeter93 So I don't believe in the argument that adblockers forced content creators to do sponsered segments.

[@CyberLillix]

@@BigPeter93 bro adblockers have been a thing long before youtube red lol

[@klanecko]

So if ad block is piracy, then skiping a segway to sponsor with double tap is also piracy 😁😁😁

[@OctaviusGeorge]

Guilty of both

[@Ryan-093]

Yes that is correct. All the pro-adblock people are simply trying to argue that water isn't wet and they look foolish doing so.

[@misham6547]

Linus still gets paid for the skipped sponsor, but not for the skipped adsense

[@rawdez_]

@@Ryan-093 Linus, you know, i wrote a comment for you. it cost 100 bucks. you owe me 100 bucks now. if you don't pay you're a pirate and should be prosecuted as all pirates should. actually, every comment I ever wrote under LTT video cost 100 bucks each, because I'm saying that now. LTT, you owe me thousands of dollars because you never paid for my comments you have pleasure to read. pay. thats exactly what Linus is doing now. he is putting a price ("you must watch ads") on what is actually free. there never was any contract or agreement between anyone and LTT that people MUST watch ads to "pay" for a LTT content view. and it never even was implied once before. if he had at least a disclaimer at the start of every LLT video that there is actually a price in the form of watching ads then he could say shiz that he is saying now about "pirating" his content with ad blockers. until then he must stfu about "pirates" just like you should. its like giving out things for free and then saying "its implied that you owe me now, pay, if you don't - you're a bad person, a pirate", so if anyone is looking foolish now is total jokes like lienus and dumb people who defend him like yourself.

[@HughMungoose]

@@misham6547 But then Linus becomes the pirate because he got paid for showing an ad to nobody.

[@ChadeGB]

Linus is one of the most argumentative people I've seen, he really struggles to admit when he's wrong about anything, even when he's clearly wrong. There is not one description anywhere, except from Linus's mouth, that would call blocking ads piracy.

[@pixlhound]

not to mention the fact that YT doesn't prevent you from watching videos when you don't have an account. By not signing up and by using an adblocker, you haven't entered into any kind of agreement with them, so therefore, you can't break rules that you never agreed to.

[@noha7688]

Piracy definition: "the unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work." Adblock is against KZbin ToS. Going against ToS makes you unauthorized to use KZbin. KZbin is someones work. So adblocking is piracy.

[@pixlhound]

@@noha7688 nope, you're wrong. You don't have to agree to KZbin's TOS in order to use the platform, you don't have to create an account either, therefore the TOS cannot be enforced. KZbin is NOT someone's work and adblocking is, by definition, NOT piracy

[@TallicaMan1986]

​@@pixlhoundexcept the vast majoirty of people using adblock do have accounts. Like you.

[@pixlhound]

@@TallicaMan1986 who said I'm using adblock? How very presumptive of you. Besides, people having accounts is irrelevant. Simple fact is that you don't NEED an account, and therefore, they cannot enforce it.

[@Vercingetorix45]

No, Linus. From the Cambridge dictionary: "Piracy: the act of illegally copying computer programs, recordings, films, etc. to sell them at much cheaper prices". So, adblockers are not piracy. You can say you don't like them, but they are not piracy. Your example about the Cirque du Soleil doesn't make any sense, a soda and a hoodie cost only a fraction of a ticket, while buying any merchandise from ltt store gives you much more money than watching your entire video production filled with ads. Do you really think the Cirque du Soleil wouldn't let me in if I donated a million dollar to the circus without buying a ticket? Also no, watching ads is not part of the deal, this isn't mentioned anywhere in the KZbin's terms of service, while the monthly fee for Netflix or Spotify or any other paid platform is clearly expressed before subscribing. This is also demonstrated by the fact that KZbin itself doesn't block adblockers when it would be quite easy to do it, or at least to make it harder to use them. Every information we have, from the Terms of Service to KZbin's own behaviour, demonstrates that every video available on the platform is free content, with ads that you may or may not watch at your liking on some of the videos. If you want the deal to be "in order to watch this content you need to pay", move exclusively to other platforms where the content is not free to watch, because this is simply how KZbin works. I understand that as someone in your position you must take this stand, but you are not right on any aspect of this and you know it.

[@piotrwadoowski1280]

@Julien Franc well pointed out. Only thing that I would like to add is that using the KZbin as most popular videos site per its terms of service is free of charge. The ads are generating additional revenue for YT and yourself(video creator) but claiming that removing them as additional and unwanted content is piracy is a way overstatement. Especially from someone who is on receiving end of revenue. I think that most of the reasonable people will get why you have said that but IMO you're wrong and this approach contradicts a lot of things and content that you have released till now.

[@Torguemada]

@@piotrwadoowski1280 Not additional revenue, the only revenue.

[@piotrwadoowski1280]

@@Torguemada I disagree. The main revenue for them is your data.

[@thetechrealist]

You know what I do when I have a bad take? I Double Down! ~Linus

[@Nik-rx9rj]

He did the same thing when he used Linux. It just makes him look so bad.

[@xyzqsrbo]

I still don't get how this is a bad take lol

[@007FighterStreet]

Ah yes, the classic argument of, my definition is different than yours, even though my definition is not standard, so therefore I am right by my own definition of the term. Then let me cherry-pick stupid comments to try and solidify my point.

[@radix4801]

I mute my TV during commercial breaks, am I pirating television shows? "Making unauthorized copies of content" is not the same thing as "tailoring my experience to my likes" and there is no legal, ethical, or technical way those things are the same. I'm surprised Linus is doubling down on such a bad take. I totally get why he WANTS people to watch ads, but that doesn't make it the same.

[@friendlybane]

There's a difference between avoiding an Ad and blocking it entirely. This was explained in this video but you ignored it, of course.

[@ILoveWomen]

The difference is the TV company still gets paid when they emit an ad. When you block ads on KZbin, the KZbinr doesn't get any money from you

[@radix4801]

So he's mad that he's not getting paid for an ad that people aren't watching anyway. He's upset that he can't inflate his ad watch numbers, and get more money than he's entitled to. Who's the unethical one, now?

[@SolidSt8Dj]

The fuck are you talking about? Ignoring an ad, and blocking an ad are not the same thing. And maybe watch the video? Your exact point gets addressed. But if you want to hate and speak out of your ass then please continue, it's entertaining to say the least.

[@friendlybane]

@@radix4801 I think you are just confused or refuse to see the point. It's been explained clearly.

[@patrickgoodhart9294]

I feel like all of LTT should be forced to watch 120 hours of KZbin without adblock or youtube red on their corporate pcs and tell us all about the wonderful ads they watched.

[@rawdez_]

THIS

[@SolidSt8Dj]

But it's STILL PIRACY. Just because it's a really shitty experience, does not make it not Piracy.

[@PikkaKok]

I feel like nobody watches / understands the video.

[@theehans]

They Legit are Deleting Comments. NO ONE CAN TALK BACK, THEY ARE CENSORING US

[@piguyalamode164]

@@theehans Maybe because you have posted comments that look like spam, like the 10 duplicate comments spammer purge detected from you in 5 clip videos.

[@FluffySylveonBoi]

That car argument in the thumbnail is so dumb I can't even. If I could download a car, it would mean copying existing car, not stealing it xD

[@Sunbro123]

Moral Piracy is not a thing. If you are so scared that people are using adblockers then hide your content behind a paywall. There is absolutely no moral obligation to watch ads in exchange for free content, and no, it's not piracy in any form. By that logic, going to the toilet during commercial breaks on TV is also piracy. Also, you are not only paying with ads, Google is also harvesting user data, in addition to showing you ads (I know both are related).

[@Crimswin]

My only problem here is you considering content that has an ad on it to be free, and saying there's no moral obligation to watch the ad. If it were free content it wouldn't have the ad... That's your payment for watching that content... Like fuck giving google any more data than they already have sure. But content with an ad isn't free... That's the point of the ad.

[@SolidSt8Dj]

No it's not? And maybe watch the video before you speak out of your ass because this exact point gets addressed?

[@lazypenguin69]

Damn, bad analogy. With TV it doesn't matter if you're watching the ad or not they still got paid the exact same, with youtube the youtuber gets paid with each ad "watched". A better analogy would be "its like if you can download a app to your TV to skip ads, and watch 100% for free" His point makes sense, by using an ad blocker you're just freeloading. Pirating may be a harsh way to put it, but it's probably most accurate too

[@TheRavenEffect88]

@@lazypenguin69 Exept Ted Turner tried to make this exact argument with VCRS allowing you to fast forward past commercials claiming you are obliged to view the adds to watch whatever show you were watching. So lets say you are obliged to watch adds, is it piracy if you just let it play out and walk away from your device or just mute it? Or must you sit there and consume the ad, in full with your undivided attention? Because that seems to be the argument you are making here.

[@lazypenguin69]

@@TheRavenEffect88 quite legitimately the EXACT opposite augment i was was making. did you read the comment? i could have probably said it in a better way, but how did you get it so opposite. no one cares if you watch the ad or not on tv it doesn't make the broadcaster more or less money if you watch them or not. with youtube its different some one using a ad blocker directly makes the youtuber less money than if you were to let the ad play. dont have to watch it, no one cares if you actually buy the product or not they get paid by the ad existing as long as its played.

[@SchwachsinnProduzent]

I have to say, the addon to see the dislikes helps quite a lot on this video. Current votes: 16 likes, 21 dislikes Edit: Now it is 222 likes to 372 dislikes (for those without addon)

[@Dtr146]

It's a hot take. But Linus is right though. If Everybody's blocking ads on KZbin. KZbin has to run more ads. Add block is the whole reason why instead of one five second add at the beginning of a video we have to watch two.

[@NexusXP]

@@Dtr146 People are blocking ads for a reason. Mainly because KZbin does not check what ads they showing on their platform. I have gotten several very inappropriate and obvious scam ads on the app and website.

[@kopasz777]

@@Dtr146 If everybody is blocking ads then doubling them... still doesn't work?

[@theehans]

They Legit are Deleting Comments. NO ONE CAN TALK BACK, THEY ARE CENSORING US

[@theonionsystem7779]

I try say fuck or fucking and KZbin is like "please be more kind to others, don't be rude" it's really annoying I want to say what I want

[@grzesiek9514]

Adblock is not optional it’s necessity. Internet is full of garbage and sometimes there is no “premium” option available.

[@JonathanLundkvist]

Well, a few months back we had the "LMG is not your friend" and this is pretty good proof as to the truth of that statement. I would however have hoped that he as a person would be able to understand why people chose to block ads and not hold the people who helped him grow to the level he is today in such utter contempt.

[@jammaschan]

I mean if you watch the video he understands why people choose to block ads and he doesnt hold people who helped him grow in contempt?

[@DeepSpaceNetwork]

I normally agree with linus, however, I cannot disagree more with this statement.

[@gemstone7818]

digital piracy just means copyright infringement, thus if ad blockers don't constitute as copyright infringement they don't constitute as piracy

[@rosco3]

15:30 one major issue with this. You're not the one writing the contract. You have an agreement with YT and viewers have another. If in that contract it was explicitly described that you MUST watch ads then yeah, piracy. But it isn't. You don't dictate what the contract is, google does. And they are clearly not doing anything to stop ad block

[@krazycharlie]

I can't remember having signed any kind of contract with Google nor KZbin to watch ads. What's more, I don't feel neither legally nor morally obligated to watch them, so I just skip them or block them.

[@joshyazg2120]

@@krazycharlie It's probably in the 70 thousand page TOS behind a hyperlink when you make a Google account. Still, I agree with the rest of what you said and unless Google is going to do something about it, I'm going to keep not caring.

[@BigPeter93]

@@krazycharlie no shit. If you could work for a million dollars or have a million dollars given to you, which one are you going to choose? It's human nature to choose the path with the least resistance. The whole point of Linus' video was to get people to acknowledge that philosophy. It doesn't matter if you do or you don't, but smat least say it like it is.

[@JackPyro333]

@@BigPeter93 But we disagree that "like it is" is piracy. So why should we acknowledge something we don't agree with should be acknowledged in the first place? That doesn't make sense.

[@samw5924]

His model is flawed. A content creator makes videos, uploads them to KZbin and monetises them to make money from anyone who views the ads run on them. They do not have any sort of deal with KZbin or any viewer that they must watch the ads to watch the content, only with KZbin that the ads will be shown before, during, and/or after the video. KZbin doesn't promise that every viewer will watch ads and nor does any viewer. Effectively they are putting free videos out there in the hope that enough people for reasons of convenience, apathy, or support will watch the ads. Linus starts with the premise that ads are the price of watching youtube but that is not how they are presented to viewers and without that communication and obligation it is not so much a price as it is a suggested donation (albeit one that is very heavy handed compared to Wikipedia for example).

[@mossup-]

This makes me think that what Linus is saying is that KZbin are false advertising which would mean KZbin is breaking the law.

[@samw5924]

@@mossup- why do you say that? You mean that KZbin is advertising itself as free when really you have to pay by watching ads? That's why Linus is careful to say he's not talking about legal requirements just that he thinks there's a bargain there that isn't being respected when you use adblock

[@mossup-]

@@samw5924 Its just what it made me think of, youtube has in the past prided it self on providing content for free, in earlier days of youtube ads didnt exist, so now Linus is basically saying that we should be paying for free content so either the content is free or it is not, these videos are provided free so why call people pirates when they are not and then in the next video kzbin.info/www/bejne/bKjLeIqVbs6bfrc admit to also using adblockers, does that mean Linus is pirating content too? this whole situation is something that should never have been brought up in the first place but was. I dont think Linus understands what the definition of Piracy is. KZbin is free.

[@62433N]

The moment you make watching advertisements as a voluntary action to compensate a means of payment (monetary) it no longer fits the definition of advertisement. Advertisements are by design involuntary. People are not obliged and not to be expected to pay attention to it. You as a businessmen can spend millions of dollars for an ad. Because you are paying for gaining outreach which will result in more people buying your product. There can be a platform who’s business is to sell ads (Say KZbin or Facebook for example). They can take your money and in return show your ads to people who uses their platform. But you cannot expect people to have to watch your ads. Because it’s your luxury to have. You’re lucky that someone saw it. You’re lucky that the algorithm hit someone who needed just your product right then and they saw your ad. But you can’t say that someone is pirating because they watched your video but not your ads. Or someone blocked the way for your ads to reach them. See how KZbin and Spotify are designed. They show ads to their free users. But they don’t show it to people who pays a subscription fee. But is that all? If you think so, here is where you start to think mistakenly. KZbin premium users or Spotify users do not only get ad free experience but they also get KZbin red videos and higher quality + offline downloadable music (respectively). That’s the main business model. The ad free experience is a bonus. Not the main model. If it was, then the things you call ads would no longer be ads. There would other wise no reason to call KZbin to be free or a free app from the AppStore that shows ads to be called as free. Because for it to be free it cannot have any monetary transaction bound with it. But yes, they can make your life inconvenient instead by showing you ads. If you want you can pay the app developer a tip to stop the inconvenience or stop the ads your own way. So, if you choose to skip or block the ads you cannot be committing to piracy. It’s just that you are choosing not to see ads. If however, you choose to listen to the same high quality music only available to premium Spotify users by any other means. Or see the KZbin Red videos for free by other means which were meant to be watched only by premium users. Or you download an app with additional features only available as a purchase but for free from another website. This is where you can bring piracy in. Because you can clearly see the pattern of stealing. You can’t be a pirate because you chose to not leave a tip for a street performer or not leaving a tip for twitch streamers. Advertisements are very very different than what a lot of the people here perceives them to be. English isn’t my native language. I’m sure that’s already been evident by now 🙏

[@BigPeter93]

@@62433N You were close. It's piracy because you are skipping the ad. Skipping an ad is not the same as not watching an ad. In order for them to get paid an ad has to play. You can turn down the volume or leave the room while the ad plays but you can't stop the ad from playing.

[@kvernesdotten]

I mean this conversation is pedantic af imo. Comparing adblock to sneaking into a venue without a ticket? Seller sets the price, not buyer? Make ALL of your content Floatplane exclusive and see how that goes then. When doing business on a free platform I think you kinda have to consider that a cost of doing business, you get SOOOOO much back from it. Also theres the thing where adblock does legally not fall under piracy (in general, there are niche exceptions). Imo if adblock would be considered piracy on par with stealing copyrighted content from a publisher and that this is the "payment for the service" then I think that needs to go both ways. No more collecting and selling data for Google and KZbin, no more sponsorships for channels. I mean, we pay so why should we have to sit through it right? And, if this is not a legal matter, who gets to define what piracy means then if not the actual courts. I know its been very popular to make up your own meanings for words and demand everyone else accept them in the past decade, but you are the last person i thought i'd see do that. And yes, this is a completely ridiculous notion, but I think its just as ridiculous the other way around too. We all know this is not how the real world works. 18:25 - oh okay so having 15 mill subs and consistently over a mill views on every video from making your content easily accessible has nothing to do with what deals your sponsors give you, and thus not affecting your bottom line? Do you really think that you would have the same reach and the same numbers if your content was gated behind a subscription fee from day 1? Or even if you went paywall exclusive today? Or if there was 15 min of unskippable ads and sponsor segments for 10 min of content? I have all the love for you Linus, but come on, this is bordering intellectual dishonesty. The alternative for most people out there is to find something else to watch, and you know that very well. Then everyone lose. Piracy is theft. In order to prove theft, you have to prove concrete loss. I think youd be hard pressed to do that in this case. Mostly because you gain hell of alot more from things being this way, than you lose from it.

[@jacobamador7989]

I use KZbin Vanced now for quite some time. I never used to. But about a year ago? KZbin finally pushed me over the edge. Enabling ads on every single video on KZbin wasn't the breaking point, but then having multiple ads upon ads was. If they never did this, I never would have pursued a solution.

[@Dutch_fellow]

With the unskippable one minute of ads youtube introduced they were doing a cashgrab. That's when I've drawn the line.

[@bradley3549]

People tend to forget that the content creators have some control over the ads displayed on their videos. Some creators basically turn on maximum ads and boy is it annoying. Where as other creators don't monetize their channels and the ads are far more tolerable. Which is kind of like, if you don't like the cost of something, don't buy it. If a channel is full of ads - sorry, not watching your content.

[@JBBrickman]

1 minute add? i dont even mind 4 minute ads wtf

[@yaudahloginkuyy9443]

@@JBBrickman 1 HOUR ADS how about dat ?

[@B0nd3n]

i got a 35min unskippable ad yesterday on my phone

[@Yuckyuck1870]

I love how a multi-millionaire who also owns a business near half a billion dollars who never has to see ads again. I find it annoying that watching their videos isnt enough, they need extra time and your money aswell. LTT is covering his own interests which is making more money at the expense of your time and sanity.

[@blackbradhz299]

7:13 "I never said that it was illegal, I said it's piracy(illegal)" And doubling down he goes - [laughing out loud] C'mon, did you really think this type of incoherence would slide!

[@BigPeter93]

He also reiterated that he does not mean the legal definition of piracy. He's talking about the culture of piracy, which is to get as much as you can for as little as you can give.

[@blackbradhz299]

@@BigPeter93 Doubling down, aren't we!

[@nonyabisness6306]

@@BigPeter93 Try calling someone a rapist or murder and adding "but not legally!" see how long it takes for someone to sue you for slander. In fact that exact thing has happened multiple times before. Word have definitions for a reason, they have legal definitions you cannot abuse without consequence.

[@noha7688]

@@nonyabisness6306 So OJ Simpson isn't a murderer because he was found not guilty?

[@raxcentalruthenta1456]

This is one case where I'm kinda pissed with Linus. Not everyone wants to engage in the predatory ad ecosystem. That's why people buy merch or donate as an alternative. You clearly didn't take that into consideration. That some of your merch income is from ad dodgers. Calling people who are trying to avoid predatory ad systems pirates when they are TRYING to give you monetary gain via other avenues is not cool Linus. More money than you'd get from their video views regardless. Louis Rossman did a great video calling this out. This argument would go a lot differently if ad systems weren't so predatory.

[@b0bhart]

Calling someone a pirate isn't a insult, it's just stating a fact. If you take it to be an insult then that's on you

[@rawdez_]

@@b0bhart Calling someone a pirate is saying that that someone is breaking the law and should get legal punishment for that.

[@Ulgarth84]

Pirates are cool, yarr! 🏴‍☠️

[@rawdez_]

@@b0bhart Calling you a ... isn't an insult, it's just stating a fact. If you take it to be an insult then that's on you

[@craziej2k1]

@@rawdez_ only it's not breaking the law. It's like if someone says "I'll give you £10 upfront if you watch my dog" and you take the £10 and then walk off - not illegal but a sucky thing to do.

[@iagobkstar]

I'm gonna flip the script and tell you another hot take: targeted ads and selling customer information is exactly the same thing as digital human trafficking. And I'm not gonna let myself be trafficked, thank you

[@qwertyioup195]

Seeing Linus get so upset over semantics is genuinely hilarious

[@marcbuerkle]

Yes, hilarious and frustrating! An advertisment is NOT like a ticket or subscription fee. Linus uses a false analogy for his examples, because on youtube there is no entry ticket you have to pay, the ad is NOT a binding requirement for watching videos. If it would be like a Netflix subscription, then there wouldn't be any free accessable videos on KZbin. ALL videos where closed up behind an "ad watching wall" and you would need to ACTIVELY CONSENT to watching it, like with every other ticket/contract on the internet. It CAN'T BE piracy, because you are loading it up on a website where it is NOT a requirement to watch ads. If it was in the ToS of KZbin and you would klick a button which says: I exchange one ad view for getting access to the video. Then it would be a different story! What actually is piracy, if you would sell your videos online and I would buy them, copy them and provide them for other people on the internet, so they can watch without paying. The worst part is, that Luke doesn't get it, either he really did not think about it or he plays the neutral one to not piss off his boss.

[@nebby3]

​@@marcbuerkle This exactly. Other sites have ways of detecting adblockers and preventing those users from accessing the content. I would concede that working around these adblocker-detectors could be piracy of that content. This would be the same as getting around a paywall. Piracy entails unauthorized distribution or reproduction of the content. Watching a video on KZbin with an adblocker is still completely authorized... because KZbin itself allows it.

[@qwertyioup195]

@@marcbuerkle all of the twitter threads and this video do are obfuscating the issue by changing the conversation to semantics and morality rather than financial impact. I also love how Linus says he didn’t call you a bad person for committing “piracy”, even though the word piracy is synonymous with doing bad things.

[@zekiz774]

@@qwertyioup195 he himself was caught pirating a movie.

[@Big.Rig.]

@@zekiz774 he’s even made tutorials for setting up addblockes

[@DampeS8N]

Ad blocking is a vital security feature. If the advertising industry cared about consumers, they would have cleaned shop long before needing the solution of ad blocking. Should people selectively turn it off on certain sites? That's their call. Security issues through ads have happened on major platforms before. I'm sorry, an industry can't poison their own well and then complain about people not drinking from it anymore. If they cared, they could have pushed for regulations, instituted trust programs themselves to self regulate and paid for systems that would vet ad safety. But they didn't. They went full bore into multiple systems with dubious security practices and paid the price for it. They opened their own can of worms. Is using ad block piracy? Literally not the point. It doesn't become the point when it harms your bottom line. I realize the initial comment was a direct response to someone, so you aren't saying this out of the blue. But calling things like this piracy will cause a chilling effect on people's actions. Some people may decide not to use ad block, or to turn it off, when doing so puts them at personal risk. You've chosen your business model, you can elect to focus on people's safety over your bottom line. You can say "I'm not going to engage with this option I have for monetization because it actively harms users, I'll advocate against it instead." but that isn't the choice you made. Which is fine.

[@kght222]

i adblock everything. you always burn in ads anyway.

[@Goob_V10]

For me, the biggest issue is calling it “piracy” because it implies I accessed the content illegitimately, or by circumventing the legal distributor of it. This is not the case here. There are no rules/laws/terms that require viewers to have ads on their screen. On a technical level, you could have a service that forces viewers to watch unskippabble ads throughout the video, just like television, but that seems like a really bad idea for obvious reasons. On that note, when I’m watching TV and a commercial comes on, is it also piracy if I change the channel? Those programs rely on ads as well, but that isn’t piracy. I can see where Linus is coming from, and I somewhat agree. There’s a sort of “handshake” involved with online content. Yes the content is freely accessible. But it’s not “free”. They need to get their money from somewhere. We all know this. So it wouldn’t be fair to say using ad block isn’t at least a little iffy, ethically. The counter point from people who use Adblock, myself included, is that a large portion of ads are just straight up malicious in one way or another. I think this is one of those situations where we all do pretty much agree on the issue, but the word “piracy” has thrown it sideways. Not blaming Linus, he was just speaking his mind. If anything, it was just a bad idea to bring it up and a site as god awful as twitter.

[@SolidSt8Dj]

Once again, watch the video next time. 1. It's piracy, but it's not illegal, in fact, they've advocated for blocking ads many times. 2. If you change the channel/mute the tv, etc, that's NOT piracy, because the ad has already been purchased/paid for. If you buy a newspaper and then throw out all the pages with ads, that's not piracy. What would be piracy would be breaking into the printing room, and printing a copy that has all of the ad slots blank. You accessed the content illegitimately by blocking the ads, therefore piracy. But ignoring the ads is not piracy.

[@raawesome3851]

It's piracy. Not illegal, but it's still piracy. Don't care if you don't like it, but you are pirating it.

[@altcosenza]

Just admit it. It's piracy, but you don't care. I don't care. A lot of people don't care. But admit it. It's simple. It's not Illegal, but it's piracy. What is illegal and what is not doesn't matter in this case, That changes everytime. It can be legal to block ads today and be illegal tomorrow. But that doesn't change the fact that it's piracy and most people don't care.

[@itsasadbunny]

@@SolidSt8Dj Piracy by definition is Illegal, so we shouldn't use that definition for this specific example. Because by law you cannot get sued or go to jail for skipping ads while you can for torrenting a movie. We can use a different term because Linus is correct that people shouldn't be skipping ads and that adblock on KZbin is unethical. But it is not Piracy specifically because it is Legal to do so. Words can have different meanings sure, but that is if it is explicitly mentioned in the English language. Everyone I think here agrees that adblock is unethical towards KZbinrs, but we also shouldn't call things they aren't. Reason is simply because you don't want to mix definitions of different words together which can lead to policies changing towards including adblock as piracy and it getting removed from the google store since we now consider it piracy.

[@sznt8648]

​@@SolidSt8Dj It cannot be "piracy, but not illegal", because piracy is illegal. That is like saying "murder, but not illegal".

[@Diggnuts]

Blocking an ad is theft.... But selling a prototype you promised to return is an auction? Are you on drugs?

[@djorgs]

Linus, you're a smart guy, but I know you're better than this. You KNOW how charged of a term "piracy" is. I grew up in a world surrounded by PSA's screaming at me that "piracy is illegal." Don't patronize your viewers by getting into semantics. Instead of dying on this hill, you will see more success by acknowledging that you didn't communicate clearly and just move on.

[@shponglefan]

Controversy drives viewership. I think he knows exactly what he's doing.

[@HylianProtagonist]

This is so true. Given Linus’s analogy, one could infer that using the built in “Skip Ad” button is piracy because you watched the video without viewing the ad. Piracy is definitely the wrong word to use, given the full meaning of the term. Linus is smart enough to know this. I’m sure he realizes all the legal ramifications, but chooses either knowingly or unknowingly to ignore the legal use of the term and focus on the meme use of the term. The courts will not care about pirate memes, but they will care about the theft and profit meanings of the term piracy.

[@rawdez_]

@@shponglefan i actually would stop watching as much linus videos as possible to not see his stupid mug. starting with WAN. because F linus. also I installed SponsorBlock just because of his crap. so thanks to him, I guess.

[@lukatag7612]

@@rawdez_ Wow, you're such a big boy

[@rawdez_]

@@lukatag7612 Wow, you're such a linus fanboy. you very like little bearded men.

[@conormurphy4328]

It’s the difference between walking into a free museum without giving a donation vs walking into a paid museum without buying a ticket. While both mean that the museum doesn’t get revenue from you one is a questionable moral move and the other is illegal. That’s the difference between ad blocking and piracy.

[@G3HP]

I think people are mad cause it is a kind of shit argument to equate Ad blocking to piracy. The difference might be subtle in the mind of Linus, but it is there, and that is what's got people mad. For starters, there's a difference between bypassing an explicit paywall and an implicit one... for example, if I steal a sweet from a shop, I have stolen that sweet, period. If I take a free sweet from a charity drive without leaving a donation, I haven't actually stolen anything, as the sweet itself was free. I mean sure, it definitely would make me an asshole, but no crime has been committed, there's a difference here. This is especially true in the virtual, when the thing you're "stealing" has no actual scarcity; you could theoretically steal infinitely many copies of a virtual item and not have it affect that item's supply. Secondly, there is no contract between the user and creator to watch (or interact with) the Ads put in front of them. If I go to the bathroom during your video's Ads, similar to how I would with TV, I have still skipped your Ad as far as your engagement stats would be concerned, as KZbin only cares about people who interact with Ads, not people who just mindlessly skip them. The Ad blocker just takes out the "me leaving to do other stuff" part out of it.

[@Bradenbier]

You do not know how anything works. 1. This is not a conversation about stealing, it is about watching something without paying for it (KZbin ads on a free account). If you take a sweet labeled as free and there is no form of payment aka a donation then you have not stolen anything. KZbin serves ads to any account that is not paying for a subscription therefore it takes you watching an ad as payment. 2. this whole second point makes no sense if you go to the bathroom while an ad plays then the ad has still run, KZbin doesn't care if you click on the ad or not if it plays it counts that's why clicking skip ad also counts as watching it. It's like you didnt even watch the video as most of what you said was brought up and debunked.

[@62433N]

KZbin does not take advertisements as payment my dude. KZbin takes free account as a platform to sell ads. You can see those ads or not see those ads. It is the creator’s luxury to be able to show those ads to free users. Not seeing the ads cannot result in piracy. Not paying for Netflix’s subscription and still watching the same content for free is however piracy. Just like watching KZbin Red videos by other means is piracy. Do not confuse ads with payment. Advertisements cannot be considered as payments in any form. Not even impliedly. Otherwise it will no longer be considered as ads. Advertisements are ways of gaining outreach by businesses that have the luxury to do so. Which is why it costs money to put up an ad. But it doesn’t cost money to see one

[@Bradenbier]

@@62433N Why do you think apps and any website shows ads? It's so the app or website can make money, its a business, they are selling you content on their platform if you watch an ad that is the payment required to watch it pretty basic info, I also never said I personally consider it "piracy", but it is breaking the rules and you are getting something for free that is behind a wall wether its a paywall or an advertisement. nothing in life is free dude, there is always a payment and that payment is an ad or a premium subscription.

[@buckbucker8020]

If using adblock is piracy, then YAR HARR HOIST THE SAILS!

[@jackmccool9911]

@@Bradenbier its toootally not fraud to the fact that they still give ads to people who pay money to youtube premium that promises no ads. Its just unfair that way, i respect your opinion of it but my opinion is that its fair to have an adblock when the businesses are getting billions and the workers still get money from it take it or leave it. KZbin is even paying content creators (workers) less money like they don’t care about there creators to much with a favor in bigger more influential creators like cocomelon, markiplier, and more. Adblock is definitely killing money, but its not business ruining type stuff. KZbin will still make money as you can’t get adblock on TV or whatever you’ll use like DS, nintendo switches, and probably more.

[@jorgeaura2890]

If it's not illegal then it can't possibly be called piracy.

[@Darkphantom9090]

The word piracy can have a definition different from its legal system use

[@SrIgort]

This. Saying piracy isn't a crime in some cases is the same as saying that stealing isn't a crime sometimes. It literally doesn't make sense.

[@ChicagoPaul2020]

@@Darkphantom9090 that's not how that works

[@mrbust999]

Piracy is stealing, no one is stealing anything.

[@illegalalien6542]

@@SrIgort The law would beg to disagree...

[@amberm4178]

Blocking forced and unwanted content from getting to you is not piracy. However, running windows without registering it and using it to test systems for 6 years IS piracy.

[@asdf51501]

Blocking ads is “piracy”? I disagree. There’s a difference between seeking out content I didn’t purchase (i.e. a vpn and BitTorrent), and blocking unwanted data that someone wants me to view.

[@JBBrickman]

but the creator doesn't make money for his work, if you use an external program to get around the platforms ability to monetize his hard work. Obviously like he said its not piracy thats just the closest word to describe the situation.

[@nonyabisness6306]

@@JBBrickman It's not work. Work implies there's an employment contract or at least a product being sold. This is not the case. Monetisation is an insentive offered by youtube to get people to make content for their platform, it's not payment. KZbin could pay people by the view, they don't, precicly because they don't want that sort of contractual employment.

[@inscrutablemungus4143]

@@JBBrickman It doesn't matter. Ethical or not, _it isn't piracy_ . All adblocking does is prevent redirects to a server that serves said ad. You have to right to stop a redirect on your own browser -- in fact, you have the right to not go to any url or subscribe to any service you don't want to, AFAIC. While software piracy in the style of torrenting a movie still has problems wrt to user freedom, it is fundamentally different because someone went out of their way to create and distribute an unauthorized copy of a copyrighted work. LTT can choose to put all of their content behind a paywalled service. If they do and you somehow obtain an unauthorized copy, that's piracy. However, they provide it on youtube and expect to run code on my personal device that redirects to an ad. Choosing to stop that software from running on my device is fundamentally different from creating and distributing unauthorized copies of something.

[@Pizzasniper]

I think the only way to make this better and clear things up would be for Linus to dress up and speak like a pirate on the next wan show 😂

[@RealLoki]

Beautuful 🤣

[@hacked2123]

If you think of things as money/labor versus ads it makes more sense. LMG charges $0.01 for people to view a video, since the user isn't going to pay it, then a middle man steps in and will pay the user $0.011 for watching 1 minute and 30 seconds of ads, which is paid directly to LMG and KZbin, blocking the ads prevents any labor being done, crediting a $0.011 deficit for you watching it.

[@TheMadJoker87]

there are many fair points for both sides of the argument, but for me is extremely simple: i am NOT a product, and not allowing other people to treat me as one can not be called unethical under ANY circumstance. hell, treating people like that should be unethical, but nowadays is called a "business model"

[@kenneth_mata]

While true, bussiness see that when you don't pay for a product, you are the product

[@bradley3549]

All things considered, I think this model is better than the alternative. The entire internet could be paywall after paywall, instead of just half the internet.

[@BigPeter93]

You ARE a product. If you use a service and the service is free, then you are the product. If you use Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, KZbin, Tiktok, Google, etc, you ARE the product.

[@indiepyx]

You're not entitled to my money, nor ads are entitled to my viewing. I'm also not entitled to your content either. If you don't like people not giving you money/watching ads, then get out of KZbin and become Floatplane exclusive. Also, why don't you post how much you earn in contrast to your employees? I'm sorry but I'm not letting myself be guilty tripped by a rich CEO.

[@Etheoma]

No ad block is not piracy; priacy is specifically the "illegal copying or distribution of copyrighted material via the Internet." you can say it's morally equivlent to piracy if you want. I still think you are wrong, but that agument is at least syamantically correct.

[@TheLazyJAK]

Rossmann did a good job of dismantling this argument on his channel if you'd like to see the other side of this

[@TheYoutubeUser69]

based rossmann is based as usual

[@27Binx72]

I have zero obligation to give you or anyone my time. If I don't want to spend it watching predatory ads, then I won't. If that makes me a pirate or a criminal, then so be it. Could not care less. Sounds like you need to do a little soul searching if such a large part of your business model relies on the predatory nature of ads. Creators that support that shit can keep crying. Edit: Would like to add - "LMG is not your friend" goes both ways. Your viewers don't owe you anything.

[@TheSpoonyCroy]

Man you are getting caught up on the feelings there my man. They don't even say its a bad thing, just that it is piracy. "Would like to add - "LMG is not your friend" goes both ways. Your viewers don't owe you anything." I mean ads are there to pay for the video going around them is technically circumventing a function of getting revenue so by definition piracy "the unauthorized use or reproduction of another's work." The first portion is the most relevant. You are getting caught up on them calling it piracy when they really say its not a big deal and even they do it.

[@27Binx72]

@@TheSpoonyCroy That's fair and you articulated it in a friendly and understandable way, so I appreciate that. I get they need to make money. I guess ads just feel like such a shite way of doing that because of how predatory and generally scam filled they are. Ads are so overly obtrusive now and often full of malware. It's not this channels fault of course. Google really needs to do a better job of moderating what ads are shown and how frequently. It's clear they're (Google) very much catering to corporate entities and just aren't very consumer friendly as a whole. I suppose my main issue with Linus's delivery was how seemingly accusatory and aggressive it came off to me. It sucks that 18% of their revenue is tied up in this crap and hopefully people continue to support creators through other avenues. That said, I think it's understandably frustrating having to deal with several ads per video, click bait, sponsor spots, sponsor videos and merch shout outs in every single video. Personally, I'd much rather have more control over my data and not be tracked/monitored by God knows how many entities, but that's a larger problem with the current state of the internet as a whole. It's reached an insane level of toxicity and I think government needs to catch-up and legislate what these companies are doing with our private information. Edit: TLDR - My main problem was mostly with his delivery. It came off as equating the usage of ad blocking to some sort of criminal activity punishable by law when no such contract exists between advertisers and users agreeing to watch ads.

[@TheSpoonyCroy]

@@27Binx72 "I get they need to make money. I guess ads just feel like such a shite way of doing that because of how predatory and generally scam filled they are." I'm not really seeing much of a solution here. We live in a capitalistic world. They need money and lets be real here less than a single percent of people who watch videos will ever buy merch (which is probably the best way to support content creators currently besides a patereon). Seriously look at this comment section. There was around 15k views and about 952 comments that is about a 6% engagement for something as mundane as putting words in a box for free. This is higher than the regular wanshow which had an engagement of 1.4% via views to comments. So thinking about someone actually putting dollars from crap a youtuber sells puts one in a very small minority. So having a passive source of income is probably a good thing especially for ones who don't really sell merch "Personally, I'd much rather have more control over my data and not be tracked/monitored by God knows how many entities, but that's a larger problem with the current state of the internet as a whole." That ship has long since sailed and I would argue this is because people just want everything for free on the internet. This isn't to say free things can't exist on the internet since there are a ton of open source projects and I am glad for people who put their time and effort into such projects but I can't expect those to be the norm. We have this issue with the news these days as well. Its all expected to be freely available on the internet that there is very little reason to go to the original source and once they don't get enough revenue to support its own staff. How is it expected they can keep going on? Unless you truly want to go to a sub only site, which most people aren't. The ad watching and data what is being traded instead of a standard sub fee. Hell knowing some corps they will double dip the shit anyway. "That said, I think it's understandably frustrating having to deal with several ads per video, click bait, sponsor spots, sponsor videos and merch shout outs in every single video. " I get but again as you said "they need to make money" and call to actions like those are a way for money. I find it people like to provide justifications on why they are allowed to do something and try to put themselves on a podium on why they are much better than X. So it seems people who taken issue with Linus' point are getting annoyed they are being called pirates when they technically are but to them pirate is something worse. Hell the whole pc gaming scene is a nightmare with all these people trying to justify why their version of piracy is "fine" when it really isn't. I can understand some argues and agree with some like outrageous prices in foreign countries but at the end of the day its still piracy even if you just did it to "Demo" the game (for 20+ hours). Luke and Linus are speaking pretty candidly about it and don't even say its a terrible thing directly. One can comes to the conclusion with some of the examples but ehh.

[@SeddersShots]

@@27Binx72 it sounds accusatory because its a fact that(clearly) lots of people do not like to accept that the “free” things they enjoy like KZbin, twitch, pornography, etc. All cost something and if 100% of people decided to utilize software that shut down the way those sites do make money because its “intrusive” or because they feel they dont owe any time to anyone if they don’t want to watch ads or w/e those “free” things will simply cease to exist. And instead of putting up with the annoyance of watching ads they’ll have to pay a subscription fee or simply wont have that content exist. In other words, imagine for a moment that 100% of people did what you are doing to omit a particular revenue stream(legally or otherwise) for some form of product, if that product can no longer exist as a result then whatever is being done is a problem. Then there is the fact that people still feel entitled/expect KZbin to continue to be free and available. None of them are actually taking a stand against intrusive ads and bad policies by stopping using the site, its a problem fairly unique to the internet that you can just keeping using something while refusing to engage in the thing that allows it to exist, but thats why so many arguments fall flat. “This ad policy is unacceptable and I dont want to support it” should be the same as saying “I no longer use KZbin”. But it isnt,

[@27Binx72]

I'd be happy if everything were just behind a paywall then. I only use the internet for a few select handful of things. I already support the creators I watch that have migrated to Twitch, plan on getting Red if Google cleans up their act, pay for a couple of streaming services, etc. Hypothetically, if LMG or others migrated to a pay to watch only platform and that meant no ads and constant advertising, I'd be fine with that. Edit: I still think part of the solution is legislation dictating what these companies can and can't do. I think most would agree that ads and predatory practices online are worse than ever. I don't think, "well it's capitalism" is a good excuse to just let anything happen. I'm not a capitalist, so that's not a legitimate excuse for companies to violate consumer rights/privacy. The US needs to catch-up with EU laws. Edit: Like many others have stated as well, we don't HAVE to support practices we don't agree with. I won't pay for Red or watch ads as long as Google continues to cater to corporate entities over viewers/creators and implementing shit nobody asked for, like the removal of the dislike counter.

[@tinu5779]

So if I go to toilet while the ad is playing is it still piracy? If the ad is showing some text but the person can't read is it still piracy?

[@BichaelStevens]

I'm with Louis Rossman on this topic. Boo, Linus!

[@RonaldinhoPopper]

Imagine believing that viewing ads is a required form of payment. Imagine being called a pirate for refusing to be annoyed every 2mins by shitty scam spam.

[@mr_beezlebub3985]

Ad block stays on no matter what. So many ads are either a scam or something that would give you a virus if you clicked on it.

[@A_d_e_k]

Linus' opinion on this topic is like the one from a very religious person, who tells you that not believing in god is standing by the devil's side.

[@DOSeater]

No it's more like saying that if you're not religious you are an unreligious person, he's not making any judgement on the people who do it just saying what it is

[@A_d_e_k]

@@DOSeater disagree on that...

[@rawdez_]

we all need a little bit of hail satan! snowmen in our lives though

[@treysmith3170]

Also when you go to watch a movie they explicitly say you have to buy a ticket. KZbin doesn't say you have to watch the ads. And not all videos have ads.

[@BigPeter93]

To play off your analogy. Some movies require paying for a ticket and some movies are free. The free movies tend to suck compared to the movies that require a ticket. The same goes for KZbin.

[@eneco3965]

@@BigPeter93 So all the videos I've watched on youtube have been shit because I didn't pay for them?