Is Black Forest what we hoped for? - Board Game Review

[@VoidVerification]

All your criticisms were positives for me: I hate the card mechanism in Glass Road (the success of an action I choose majorly depending on other players' decisions), but love the resource wheel. I want the building tiles of Caverna, but with a less rigid worker placement mechanism. I like the idea of "feeding your workers" coming back in a less rigid form in the shape of having to produce enough provisions to move your worker across the board; this is part of the overall puzzle. I already bought the game and wanna get it to the table soon. :) I really appreciate your open criticism and acknowledging that your dislikes might be other people's likes!

[@BoardGamingRamblings]

That is super awesome to hear, and I feel that is what I want to accomplish with the reviews. So that you can get a feeling of the game, and see if it will be for you! :) Not all games are for everyone, so we try to help out in finding what you’ll like! :)

[@RaduStanculescu]

That is the first time I've ever heard Caverna called rigid, it's really surprising since I've played Agricola a lot and compared to that you can pretty much do whatever you want whenever you want in Caverna.

[@VoidVerification]

@@RaduStanculescu You can't, you still have to place a worker on one of the pre-set placement spots that stay the same all game once they're uncovered. If the one you want / need is blocked, tough luck; wait till next round. And that to me feels rigid. (Same as in Agricola.) In comparison, the worker placement aspect in Black Forest is much more open because you can a.) still use one action you want by placing a worker next door, or b.) use the merchant to put the desired action somewhere more convenient for you. Furthermore, I love the spatial aspect of moving your workers across the map for getting actions not available in your current location.

[@RaduStanculescu]

@@VoidVerification Caverna though has several spots that do similar things, it's pretty much the opposite of Agricola. Even with 2p you have several spaces where you can grow, several where you can put fields down, several for weapons actions, etc. Agricola has one spot for grow from round 5-8 to round 12-13 even with 4 players, one for rooms, etc. I feel like Black Forest with having to travel, with moving the special tile (don't remember then name) to replace an action, is considerably tighter than Caverna (though definitely not Agricola-level).

[@RaduStanculescu]

It might simply be my familiarity with Agricola making Caverna feel much looser, granted.

[@tehpickle1250]

Take a shot every time Johannes says "resources" 😵

[@BoardGamingRamblings]

I wouldn’t reccomend it 😂

[@coalitionofseekers9572]

I got alcohol poisoning

[@damfino22]

The idea of discussing a euro without the mention of resources is as realistic as discussing how life sustains itself on earth without mentioning oxygen or water. 😂 Great review!

[@EltWilder]

I feel like Glass Road is a masterpiece (having played 100+ times at two players) and one of Uwe’s most unique designs. I was looking forward to this game for years, but I’m not sure all the stuff it adds improves the game.

[@Max-pj9km]

It's very good, try it, specially if you like Glass Road.

[@redchuchee]

Thank you for your honesty.

[@BoardGamingRamblings]

We always try to stay honest, no matter how we feel :)

[@jogumby]

Thanks guys, kind of what I thought from other reviews as well. Ok game but not worth an investment. Hearing about the luck factor is a big ding. I first saw the wheel mechanism in Ora et Labora by Uwe and I love that game. Great video!!!

[@RedEyedGhost1]

I agree with the 6.5 on this, but I do like how fast it plays. I'm keeping it for now, but could easily see moving it along if it doesn't end up getting pulled off the shelf.

[@nchlsrdmr]

Yeah I was thinking this, the card play in GR was so cool, no idea why they’d remove that part of all parts!

[@BoardGamingRamblings]

Agree!

[@Duxa_]

I think the point of jobs is a catch up mechanism for other players? When you reveal one it gives a way for other players to catch up (since you are ahead on the wheel). Also at one point you use “hardly disagree with me” and I think you meant to say that a lot will disagree, but “hardly” means almost nobody. So I think you said the opposite of what you meant to say. 😅

[@hiho8084]

I agree Johannes. The cards are more fun in Glass Road. I really enjoyed that aspect of it.

[@BoardGamingRamblings]

Yeah, this didn’t work out that well for me! :(

[@magus32]

I disagree with Johannes and hate the cards from Glass Road.

[@thelinuxlich]

I considered this kind of a gateway drug to Agricola, Feast for Odin, Ora et Labora...it's medium weight, doesn't overstay its welcome and while the jobs are indeed very random, it feels like a plus that may or may not fit your current strategy in the game so ignoring it isn't a detriment to win the game.

[@draheim90]

I really liked this one. I like the cards in Glass Road but prefer worker placement, I thought they did the buildings better here than in Caverna (which I also really like), and I found the jobs to be an exciting element. I can see the other perspective though and your criticisms are definitely valid. I’m finding I’m more okay with a small injection of luck in these sorts of games than some others are, I’m almost happier to see other players pull off nice plays/big moves and do well than I am my own success. And it’s not always as fun for me to just win a game because I’m a better strategist or more familiar with the game (i.e., if someone else wins due to a little luck, I’m all for it - I’ll enjoy their enjoyment). Might explain why I don’t personally find the cards in Hallertau to he problematic either.

[@BoardGamingRamblings]

Super happy to hear you’re liking it! 😁 I love that people like different games!

[@nirszi]

I agree, the addition of the randomness of job really elevates this game.

[@bushibayushi]

I adore Glass Road with 2 players for many reasons, but its biggest selling point is playtime: it has SO MANY decisions packed into a 30-minute experience. Basically it's an extended filler. Black Forest looks like a 90 minute game that would compete with Agricola, Caverna, Hallertau and that's not an easy task ;).

[@a-c-m]

Interesting review. Does does this compare to Oranienburger Kanal in your view (given that it also features the ressource wheel)?

[@alicia1465]

Whej I first heard of this game years ago, I expected a big, heavy game with multiple resource wheels. I will likely just stick with the fun card play of Glass Road.

[@nirszi]

The randomness of the jobs is what elevates this game for me, but I do find the resource management often frustrating. Somehow I like Oranienburger Kana's wheel better. At the end of the day this feels like many other Uwe games... just ok.

[@fabianscholz8821]

Interesting. Together with Hunter and BBG this is the third review i watched which calls out the same critic points. So Glass Road just seems to be better and Blackforest is a pass for me 😊

[@kitcarpo4745]

Most common word of the month: "Resources" :D

[@BoardGamingRamblings]

I don't think it was even used once?

[@kitcarpo4745]

@@BoardGamingRamblings It's important to be resourceful.

[@iTimik]

You said resources so many times. Is the game about resources? I'm looking for a game about resources? Does this game do that?

[@BoardGamingRamblings]

No resources in this one 😅

[@nkorppi]

Try Agra.

[@Edtheworst]

Does this compare with Ora et Labora?

[@RedEyedGhost1]

Ora et Labora is hands down better. But it's also significantly longer.

[@georgeresso6835]

i think more often than not when a top designer has someone co-designing the game ends up a mess..ex. undergrove

[@madhujith]

Uwe is enough for me to cull 😂

[@BoardGamingRamblings]

Haha! Good that we can have different tastes!

[@kitcarpo4745]

How would you two compare this to Bitoku?

[@stephenfromspielberg]

I was interested in your opinion of this game, but YT killed it: 5 sets of brain dead, totally irrelevant ads in as many minutes is just too much. I shall be checking my "local" brick and mortar game shop when Black Forest hits their shelves and decide then. Analog is the new digital.

[@BoardGamingRamblings]

Wait, what? There was five ads in five minutes? I always try to space put ads during videos, and never have them too close to one another, so I have no idea why that happened! :(

[@BoardGamingRamblings]

Thank you for commenting this! I just checked, and something weird had happened. I did change it now, so it should be better! :)

[@elqord.1118]

It’s fine but ultimately super flat and boring

[@boriskirov3953]

You complain about randomness in those tiles, but your are ok with totally random card play in glass road? Sounds like double standards to me...

[@BoardGamingRamblings]

I wouldn’t really call it a double standard, more of a different kind of randomness, and we are annoyed by some kind of randomness more than other :) Also, I disagree about the cards in Glass Road being that random. It’s all about what cards you want to play, and also trying to outmaneuver your opponents and trying to guess what they want! :)

[@yarondavidson6434]

@boriskirov3953 - Generally the actions of other players are not considered "random" when it comes to game terms. And for what I think is usually a very good reason. Like you, other players are supposed to consider their options and try to do what they think would be the best play for themselves. So, you can similarly consider the gamestate of those other players, as well as what you know about their preferences and playstyle, to get a good idea of what they're likely to do, which then you can use when considering your own action. This is of course not a guarantee, like an open card on the table, before you make your decision decision, would be. But is also not random, because there is a level of possible predictability to it. This would be closer to random on early players, because if both you and the other players know the game less then it's harder for everyone to know what good play for them (and others) would be in each situation, and because you also have less knowledge of the usual preferences of the other players in similar situations. But it improves the more you know the other players, the more you know the game, and the more the other players will know the game. So becomes even less random-feeling over time. Which is very much unlike just pulling a tile/card from a pile/deck of them. Where the option of what comes up is entirely random between all the possible options. The chance of any specific tile to appear next is equal between all the tiles. The chance of another player choosing to play one card over another is different depending on the game state, and you can estimate those chances (knowing their situation, and knowing them to know how they behave because they also know that you know their situation). Of course, some players can be a-holes and decide to play their cards randomly. This usually means they're not interested enough in the game, or are too tired to pay attention to the game, in which case maybe not a good idea to play that game with them at the time. It might also be an intentional strategy in games where guessing the other players actions is important, but usually not a very good strategy since it gives up all knowledge and consideration that this player can use, in exchange for hurting just the part of knowledge and consideration that their competitors can use. Or, TLDRl; version: If playing cards in games like Glass Road feel totally random to you, you're probably not paying attention to the game (or playing with other players who don't), and/or need to try playing a little bit more to get a better sense of what everything does. There are very very very few games where not making any choices (because choosing which card to play when is the major kind of choices Glass Road has for players) is a viable strategy.