Is Cat Noir Being Wasted?⎮A Miraculous Ladybug Season 4 Discussion

[@WarmLillie]

Catnoir… He scarifies his character development for others in season 4. He is true hero.

[@itsiya7234]

so trueee lmao

[@deb9741]

True

[@rushalias8511]

Even on a meta sense he's sacrificing for the good of the team

[@mint_cantsurvivethis300]

Yep.

[@NotSpecAlt]

so true

[@marzd9526]

Sometimes I feel like the writers are treating Adrien just as bad as Gabriel is: hide him away in his room untill you need to show him off for PR, highlighting his flaws to show off how he needs to be better, then never giving him an opportunity to shine on his own (unless it's in your ads I guess). And worst of all they both seem to be trying to keep the kid dependent on others in order to be able to succeed.

[@nkohler5601]

Of course. How else do you expect Adrien to be. He is the "standard hero reward" at the end of the story" much like princess peach is for Mario. The only difference is Miraculous Ladybug lies about it

[@koalalover1410]

For real! Thomas Astruc better not completely replace cat noir. I will stop watching if that happens.

[@khushibagga20]

I agree, his character is sinking too deep

[@bluskyes7954]

Thomas Astruc said he hates Adrien

[@marshasimpson7279]

@@bluskyes7954 oh well the whole fandom hate him as well🙃🙃

[@Dyoni1]

Ladybug: -Becomes new guardian. -Owns all the miraculous -Has all the powerup recipes -Get's new powers -Can share her identity Cat Noir: -Dies/messes up repeatedly -Gets no access to miraculous -Depends on Ladybug for powerups -Get no new roles -Gets no new powers -Can't share his identity Writers: This is fine.

[@MysteriousMagick]

hey their actually opposites now

[@lungam2804]

Not fine

[@marshasimpson7279]

@gamers station same

[@striksjus]

Cat noir should be able to use cataclysm more then once, so that he can save the day without ladybug. And I know that ladybug can fix everything in the end, but an episode where cat noir is trying to win without making major damage, would be an very fresh and fun episode

[@Dyoni1]

@@striksjus he should get a secondary power related to destruction at the very least. Given the luck theme of the black cat, a destructive ‘jinx’ causes everything a person does to become self destructive would fit, as would ‘disruption’ that destroys influence over others, much like the magical charms repel akuma, but applies to effects caused by villains. Example: breaking the paralysis effect of Queen Wasp’s sting, breaking mind control, or even destroying the akuma’s influence over the villain, or destroying the influence over the butterfly/feathers themselves, which would allow both main characters to stand on equal footing.

[@rach2601]

I like how all the characters that are the best written and have so much more potential are the ones that are being disregarded and wasted, ex. Adrien, Chloé, etc. 😭

[@Jennixy__]

@Helau people same it's so scary alya being ladybug

[@cherrytree8528]

I feel like cat noirs going to get akumatised again because he’s jealous that he isn’t involved in a lot of fights anymore. Because on one episode he got annoyed that ladybug was fighting a villain with someone else instead of him. He said “there’s only a two person *something* and that’s ladybug and me”

[@Jennixy__]

@@cherrytree8528 yeah and new episode 16 alya is going to be ladybug so he will be sad or angry that alya knows her secret and not chat

[@quietopinion9637]

Yeah ugh no Adrien isn't as interesting as you think he is. And most of his issues get ignored by y'all just to berate other characters because you have bias towards him. It's toxic tbh

[@quietopinion9637]

@@Jennixy__ Does female empowerment scare you incel?

[@strawberrychocolate9383]

At this point I want Chat to give up his miraculous and Marinette having a breakdown because she lost her partner.

[@nkohler5601]

That would mean she has to care about him. In chess terms Ladybug is the king (most important) and the queen (most powerful). Rena is the knight (most diverse). Noir is the pawn (most common). Nobody cares about losing a pawn

[@strawberrychocolate9383]

@@nkohler5601 You basically explained why their partnership is crumbling. Although when the common piece gets to the side of the enemy, it becomes a queen. So either Chat has to become evil, find out his dad is Hawkmoth or get akumatized to be important 🤣.

[@Dred0n]

@@nkohler5601 oh we do care only you with your bots poor thing thing think it's actually saying they're going to fail and that's why in the end Gabriel got their miraculous is your queen powerful then where is knight Alya then😂😂😂 oh yes she failed big time because of their bad leadership.

[@nkohler5601]

@@strawberrychocolate9383 or if you believe the post on dev 2018 from the director. He will simply be destroyed and written off

[@nkohler5601]

@@Dred0n ??? Not quite understanding your point. Is it that Alya will be the reason the heroes lose? That Marrinette poor communication skills and lack of willingness to see the problem will defeat them? Or that the show just is in a bad phase of writing?

[@kennyobi9871]

Cat Noir getting mind controlled is basically a running gag at this point. I'm ok with ladybug being the focus of the show but every secret which makes the show interesting (Mrs. Agreste, Gabriel's backstory, Hawkmoth) is in some way tied to Adrien. So I think it would make more sense to actually spend time develop him. Maybe he and his dad could start bonding more and maybe Adrien could forgive his dad. Eventually they learn each others secret identities and that could complicate their relationship. Like a Luke and Darth Vader sort of thing.

[@z-one5941]

Clown Noir will never be a true hero. Comparing him to Luke Skywalker is humiliation! The story doesn't need Adrien, no one needs Clown Noir. Ladybug has Rena Rouge now, a far better partner than Clown Noir has ever been!

[@nkohler5601]

That would give Adrien something to do. The director has made several rants about how Marinette is the star. This is just them kicking Adrien to the curb to prove the director right.

[@nkohler5601]

@@z-one5941 regretfully need to agree with you. Don't like it but facts are facts.

[@z-one5941]

@@nkohler5601 As it should happen! Mari is the savior of Paris and she deserves a completent partner, someone far better than Clown Noir... that pathetic excuse for a hero

[@cherrytree8528]

@@z-one5941 I find it dumb how your insulting a fictional character lmao

[@moomoomackandcheese3405]

I feel like Chat Noir could’ve felt left behind by Ladybug without him being an idiot. Like him sacrificing himself for her was always annoying but understandable and always a very sweet gesture but now he’s just being caught left right and center.

[@nkohler5601]

Why develop a character they plan on killing off? Thomas said he would back in 2018

[@dvreaux]

@@nkohler5601 so they can have development and be a good character that he died? Also did u see that tweet for yourself cause that isn't true lol 🤣

[@idealistic6440]

i completely agree.

[@Anthony-fu6cl]

AMEN. That's exactly what I'm thinking. Like, hello writers you can make him FEEL useless, but don't actually MAKE him useless 😒 he's supposed to be an athletic straight A student, but now he's like a meat shield with a pretty face.

[@Anthony-fu6cl]

@@dvreaux on December 2018 Thomas Astruc actually tweeted he will perish in season 4, Idk if he was joking or not. But even so I agree with you that characters need to develop even if they will die because we wouldn't care about them otherwise.

[@abhilashabasu7255]

The truth is that Chat always sacrifices himself for others... He never complains about that, but I really feel bad for him because in his both lives he doesn't get any importance from his loved ones or close ones... It's annoying when ladybug takes all the credit... If chat loss importance then I'll stop watching and following Miraculous : The tales of ladybug and chat noir. I wish this poor lad have a happy ending.

[@usernotfound_____yet]

Facts

[@jonathanrivera4517]

You mean, Miraculous: The tales of ladybug. At this point

[@abhilashabasu7255]

@@jonathanrivera4517 I think the full name of the series is 'Miraculous - the tales of ladybug and Chat Noir. '

[@pepperbby]

exactly, like it's supposed to be ladybug AND chat noir. I hate it when a show can't even keep up with their title

[@jonathanrivera4517]

@@abhilashabasu7255 it doesn’t looks like it…

[@lolopiner8619]

Well I hope that this whole "Cat Noir is useless in S4" leads to an episode where Adrien either fights against Ladybug for being left out or gives up being a superhero and Ladybug trying to convince him not to

[@cherrytree8528]

I feel like cat noir is going to get jealous because he isn’t involved in the fights anymore. Then maybe he’ll probably turn into cat blanc again.

[@nkohler5601]

If they do, it will be framed as Noir being overly sensitive and in the wrong for thinking such a way. After all, how can Marrinette do anything wrong? (Sarcasm) "Marrinette is a character for the show to develop. Adrien is a tool of the show to use"

[@cherrytree8528]

@@z-one5941 I doubt they’ll ever be together in a relationship. Alya is with nino, Mari likes Adrien. Their just bffs.

[@cherrytree8528]

@@nkohler5601 honestly I don’t think ladybug always needs someone to help her. She can manage without help.

[@cherrytree8528]

@@z-one5941 cat noir is useful he just likes to goof around. They don’t add him in a lot of episodes because the only power he has is the power of destruction (I think I spelt it right)

[@snatchingcareers4681]

To be honest Cat Noir’s power isn’t always useful. If you think about multiple situations where his powers were useful to destroy something it’s not a lot. Ladybug’s power is soooo overpowered because she has multiple and apparently has no limits. I think it would be cool if they have him a power up or make him discover his limits of “destruction”.

[@rose-gl4io]

The power of the black cat miraculous isn't destruction, it's bad luc Edit: realised I was wrong, the power actually is destruction 🤣🤣🤣😅

[@Luuni100]

exactly the magic system is so messed up, they’re meant to represent yin and yang but thats barely portrayed

[@Luuni100]

@@rose-gl4io no his power is destruction, bad luck is just what he represents

[@annieandelsieofarendelle3294]

@@Luuni100 They could do something with Adrien learning that he as Cat Noir can spread bad luck

[@rose-gl4io]

@@Luuni100 damn, googled it and it said that the miraculous grants the holder the power to destroy anything they touch, much like how bad luck can be spread through great chaos and destruction. Guess you were right

[@theelitebrawlersbakuganleg4224]

Guess this is why most people just refer to the show as Miraculous Ladybug It's sad but seems true

[@wholesomezuki8261]

Actually America is the few places that call it "Miraculous Ladybug: Tales of Ladybug and Cat noir" In France and other European countries just call it "Miraculous"

[@raolegends4413]

@@wholesomezuki8261 Not true but u do you

[@Popgurliess]

@@wholesomezuki8261 ok from this moment i'll just call it "miraculos"

[@PrismOpal64]

It's disappointing to say the least with how the show treats him, but Thomas insists this is feminism and gurrrl power. idk as a woman myself, it's still kinda sad to see the guys being written as utterly useless in order to make the girls look good by default. I liked it much more in season 1 when they were treated more as equals and relied on each other. Remember when Chat Noir was the only one who could see perfectly in the dark? I just wish they would write him as also coming up with ideas to help save the day instead of being the mindless distraction for the baddies.

[@PrismOpal64]

@gamers station where Thomas will call you misogynistic for daring to want the boy superhero whose name is also in the title of the show to have at least half the brain cells Ladybug has.

[@UnselfishServiceTheater]

If the boy has to be dumbed down in order for the girl to shine, then the "girlpower/feminism" brand is weak. It's basically saying that the girl can't be powerful or capable unless she is surrounded by idiots. Ergo, such a show is shooting itself in the foot.

[@stineandersen56]

Yeah, feminism isn't about women being better than men. it is about men and women being EQUALS. And Thomas doesn't seem to get that. What he is promoting instead, is the toxic feminism that real feminists are trying to stop.

[@lifekindasucksrn6442]

In literally EVERY ep: ladybug and Rena rouge/the new hero do the plan and chat is distraction!! Yay!! This is soooo boring can chat actually come up w the plannnn he was so smart in Reflekta, and there was very little distracting the villain

[@melit.]

I’m fine with this story line as long as it doesn’t end with him being Akumatized. Cause I honestly don’t have faith the writers will handle it well. It’s just gonna end with Ladybug defeating him easily and she’s gonna tell him “you need to talk to me when you’re feeling bad” or something like that. And then toxic stand will make it even worse as they have done in the past. I want Luka to notice Chat’s feeling down and then go to talk to Adrien and be like the Alya to Marinette. I think that would be nicer character wise.

[@stefaniarusso]

Yes I agree with you 💯👌👍

[@miss_chelles1338]

YES! PLEASE make that happen! Adrian out of ALL people needs someone to talk to about his superhero life.

[@nkohler5601]

No. Without the angst Adrien loses most of his character. He has no independent aspirations. Few friends. And even his desire to be Noir partly stems from sadness over a lack of freedom.

[@astrausinha5974]

I agree

[@1AM1AM]

@@nkohler5601 you do realize that if he remains like that his character will stagnate right? That's basically giving him a death sentence and throwing away any potential to the character. He can be relevant without all the angst and sadness, the writers just actually have to care enough to even give him a proper development.

[@OMKHUN]

I really would like to have the end of season 4 contain an episode where Ladybug gives every miraculous of the Box to someone BUT she completely forgots Cat. And so the furious hero turns against Ladybug WITHOUT AN AKUMA, to make her understand that his (would be) hatred tovards him is not from the acuma, but from the feeling of being sidelined. With having such a strong relationship betveen the members of the duo, it would be truly epic.

[@Saberfighterx]

Yes I like this idea

[@Liahxedits0]

But sad at the same time lmao

[@heyyo966]

I couldn’t agree more

[@akshatsharma9740]

yes i want this

[@stineandersen56]

It could even be a lesson of "if you can't beat me when I'm normal, how could you ever dream of beating me if I get akumatized? Would you be able to handle the consequences of what you have done to me?" Tbh, I want some tension and angst between the two, with no comic relief. It would be such a way to end a season, and hype people up for the next one. End a season where we don't know if Cat Noir will help Ladybug moving forward? That would be epic!

[@Lily_Evans22]

I think his feeling (and being) left out is definitely a plotline and not a permanent thing. It'll definitely get addressed later on, which is a good thing, because Cat Noir/Adrien is long overdue some character development. I'm also pretty sure that the majority of the angst and ''serious'' plotlines from now on will centre around Adrien (you know, with his dysfunctional family dynamic, villain of a father, undead mother, unrequited feelings, loneliness and insecurity, etc.) But I agree the writers could've sidelined him a bit more intelligently and not made him look like such an idiot/useless baby so often. Cat Noir went from providing the comic relief to being the comic relief and I really don't like the change.

[@Ajay-jk8xp]

i agree that it's absolutely a plotline, but with the target audience of the show, making him "seem" useless after having all the heroic plots before where he saved the day is a way that they're appealing to the target audience because kids are going to watch the show and be like "no! he's still a hero even if he messes up!" i think the reason they're so obviously sidelining him so hard isn't just because they want to make him seem useless, but they want to show that *everyone* doesn't recognize his usefulness, including Ladybug and, ultimately, himself. they're going the long route for character development and in no way am i excusing their writing but... they want to draw the show out as much as possible, and the way they're doing it is effective.

[@72horses75]

@@Ajay-jk8xp but they shouldn't show that by all of a sudden making him seem like a bumbling baffoon that only gets in the way of the other heroes plans... If they wanted him to feel left out all they had to do was have ladybug and the others just neglect him and tell him to stay out of things; but nooooo, that would make ladybug look even remotely bad and we can't have that. We have to make ladybug justified in neglecting him, which is pretty sad. It's obvious how much Thomas dislikes his own character, even saying that he dislikes him and prefers like all the other characters.

[@stockholmstyles]

If only they let Cat Noir shine in more battles like in the Season 3 finale. He was so badass in that last fight. I'm pissed at the writers for they way they make him look useless and dumb. They need to redeem his character ASAP.

[@stefaniarusso]

Yes that would be perfect 🥰💞👌

[@nekogamer2508]

It won't happen you got to remember chat noir is male so that means he needs to feel bad for what men did to women back then

[@nkohler5601]

@@nekogamer2508 while I dislike the wording, the director has said basically the same thing. My personal quote is "Marrinette is a character for thr show to develop. Adrien is a tool for the show to use."

[@nkohler5601]

They will not. To enforce the neglaction arc the writers what, like Smaty Pants said, Adrienhas to be the fool. Personally I think they were doing it from day 1 but people didn't notice it due to spreading it out better. Master Fu is an example of the microcosm. He has 6 interactions with Adrien in seasons 2 and 3. 2 of which only lasted a few seconds and no implied others. Fu had 19 interactions with Marrinette and it was implied that there were more not seen in the episode Miracular. Between that and the fact Fu never even seemed to consider Adrien as guardian material shows who was the preferred person.

[@akshatsharma9740]

@@nekogamer2508 ok so show him having an operation to make himself female and boom problem solved

[@WarmLillie]

Lillie: “Alya has the extra brains where Adrien start to lose a lot.”

[@lycan8544]

Well dang but Alya’s iq is 100000000000000% also that was my sister who did this

[@Orkprof]

They really paint him stupid

[@strawberrychocolate9383]

I hate it when they make characters stupid to make others look smarter. Let's be honest all the guys are sorta dumb, only max is seen as smart. Marinette, Alya, Nathalie,...make the plans, the boys are just there for fun or to serve the females at this point.

[@springdemon.w.]

@@strawberrychocolate9383 And Astruc calls this "feminism" and goes off at ppl who only ask if they're gonna develop the plot with Adrien and other things unrelated to Marinette being the main protagonist like wtf

[@strawberrychocolate9383]

@@springdemon.w. It's even worse when you think about the fact that Chat is there to serve ladybug. Ladybug can purify the Akuma and get a lucky charm to safe the day, Rena can make useful illusions, Carapace can protect, Luka second chance,... Chat can only destroy things which is useless, even dangerous if Ladybug isn't there to fix it.

[@Allthingsasian]

When you realise even Gabriel is set to get more development in his prequel comic than his own son… But to be fair they shafted Gabriel’s development too so I’m excited to see how they’ll portray him as the protagonist of the prequel comic. But yeah I hope the sidelining leads to something because Adrien’s character assassination hurts my soul.

[@samuelluisdelespiritusanto7343]

Nathalie is getting more character development than cat noir

[@lilymadkins3558]

If I am being completely honest, I don't think it was any better in the previous seasons. Especially whenever a new hero gets introduced, the writers had ALWAYS sidelined Chat Noir to give them spotlight. It happened in Anansi, Style Queen, Maledikator, Partycrasher, Ikari Gozen, the Shangai special and there were so many episodes that made Chat Noir "useless" for literally no reason. I am glad they're at least able to make this a plotline this time. It ties into Adrien's overall arc in the finale about standing up to Gabriel too. As long as the writing is intentional and the angst is good, I'd have no problem with Chat Noir getting sidelined. Though even if the build up for Ladynoir's conflict is well-written, I can't help but fear how the resolution will be handled. Like I really don't want the writers blaming Chat Noir for everything again. Because it's annoying how in almost all the Ladynoir conflicts previously, he's always the one end up learning a lesson or apologising even when he isn't actually at fault. I also disagree that he didn't do much in Truth. It was honestly one of the few episodes where he was actually useful and smart since he was the one who came up with a plan to defeat Luka. We need more episodes like that tbh.

[@itsmellslikeupdoginhere5756]

The ONLY episode thus far. For the smart part.

[@lilymadkins3558]

@@itsmellslikeupdoginhere5756 It's incredibly rare I agree 😂 but I think it'd be fair to include Miracle Queen where Snake Noir took the lead and single handedly deafeated an entire army of mind controlled overpowered super heroes without even the help of Ladybug's lucky charm. That was one of his best moments.

[@aliciagonzalez5434]

I respect your opinion, but they made Cholè look like an idiot in style queen😒 I agree and respect your opinion.☺

[@itsmellslikeupdoginhere5756]

@@lilymadkins3558 season 4 only i mean

[@itsmellslikeupdoginhere5756]

@@aliciagonzalez5434 she was just trying to NOT die.

[@demogorgon8119]

He is my favorite Character so it’s sad to see him being treated like that. 😕

[@cherrytree8528]

@@z-one5941 bruh his just a cartoon character chill.

[@demogorgon8119]

@@z-one5941 Geez whats your problem?

[@Dred0n]

@@decheart6392 you got that right no matter how they try and make him useless people always favor him more.

[@myroseychannel8371]

@@z-one5941 you dont have to get so mad about it. Respect other people's opinions!

[@quietopinion9637]

@@myroseychannel8371 So should you! Some of us just don't like him and his stans are really toxic towards other characters.

[@jacomoss3041]

The same can also be said for Adrien as most Season 4 episodes only see him for one scene in which he is watching a news report of the akuma attack before transforing off screen with only a green light being show.

[@nkohler5601]

Why waist animation on a character that is of no use. Paris has almost nobody living in it as a background character because they aren't needed. Neither is Adrien.

[@Dred0n]

@@nkohler5601 oh shut up because if wasn't for chat noir lamebug would've fail the battle even if she have new person with a miraculous and that's a big fact. Why waste time on a character who can't win the battle on their own.

[@nkohler5601]

@@Dred0n I am not trying to lambast Noir. I do agree that he has been given nothing to do and that is hurting him. All I am saying is that Thomas expressed interest in writing cat noir out back in Dec 2018 and that we may finally be seeing that coming to fruition. I like Adrien as a character for the most part but just because I like something doesn't mean I will ignore an obvious trend his use

[@mariama1735]

@@Dred0n i mean...they both cant win a battle on their own. You don't have to lie to prove a point yk..

[@mcventis9735]

@@nkohler5601 they already have the animations ready they always take the animation from others episodes ypu can see this by in some transformation the character is with an object that he shouldnt be

[@samantha1109]

The way adrien / cat noir is treated by the writers just makes me sad.

[@stefaniarusso]

Yeah me too ✋🙂he deserves to be loved 😍

[@samantha1109]

@@stefaniarusso He does ❤

[@ashleydortch2445]

Same here

[@natka-puppet3782]

I think it's an unnecessary waste of character, I honestly don't like how they present him as a fool or something. of course, that the confrontation between him and lb is important, but I do not approve at all that they waste him and his potential

[@miraculousfan3083]

*I hope you all have one of the best weeks ever. Here is all the information about Miraculous Season 4 Episode 16: **kzbin.info/www/bejne/iIbOo6aXgMdprZo**. I am so excited to see the episode*

[@Luuni100]

people are saying it would be a cool development arc but i dont see that. it will just end with ladybug saying “dont do that again kitty i needed you all along 🥺” when in reality ladybug doesnt need him since shes so fucking overpowered, i mean theres like 10 episodes where you can completely write out chat noir and there would be no difference. the writers can make chat noir feel invalid without portraying him as an idiot, his feelings of anger would be invalid as he cant prove himself as a good hero

[@stockholmstyles]

I would love if Adrien would find out Gabriel's identity then team up with him to bring his mother back.

[@stefaniarusso]

Yeah me too ✋🙂that would be exciting 😀

[@miss_chelles1338]

YES, PLEASE! that was what I was anticipating on for the LONGEST.

[@astrausinha5974]

Yes I also want that

[@yj54]

Me too 🖐️

[@kunsangxd8160]

YES ME TOOO ikinda hate ladybug in season 4 tho she is breaking the rules tho and hawkmoth can find her identy if the breaks more rules .......... and i think cathnoir is being waste 😣😢

[@eivakhanam6292]

Before, I used to be one of those fans who believed that Cat Noir is getting unfair treatment because Ladybug gets the main spotlight and he isn’t in the centre of the show. However, after a while I realised that since they are working on a girls project, I started to accept that Ladybug needs the main roles and then Cat Noir is the secondary protagonist who supports the main protagonist. But, when I watched the episode rocketeer and when we were introduced to Rena Furtive that’s when I told myself No! This is so unfair for Cat Noir. Why? Because first, Ladybug got her power upgrade costume so they should’ve given Cat Noir his too. But all of a sudden Rena Rouge gotten hers instead even though she now behaves like the tertiary protagonist. How does it sound like when the main character gets an upgrade to her powers but then the secondary character is left behind (still in square one) and then the next character gotten a similar position to the primary protagonist? I also want make a suggestion why I believe Marinette’s character is not properly written.

[@Dred0n]

Exactly that's how I used to think too but all this mess in season four is too much to handle they never made alya look useless or incompetent let's see if she's going to get blame for telling Nino her secret. You remember optygami how alya gave nino a miraculous but she made a mistake in the end and how mari hug and comfort her if it was chat noir or would've been a different scenario.

[@quietopinion9637]

@gamers station how??

[@quietopinion9637]

@gamers station And if anything Chat isn't talking to her either

[@randomcomment1286]

@@quietopinion9637 But Ladybug is treating him with disrespect, by keeping him the dark

[@eivakhanam6292]

@@drfrogscript But Ladybug soon realised that her fighting with Cat Noir on heroes day was an illusion by volpina meaning she also knew that Cat Noir was not dead. Also, when she says “it’s time to show everyone that the real Ladybug is back” they should’ve said Cat Noir too (in my opinion) so I doubt that. However, I do agree with your viewpoints on their trust.

[@ashantiquashie6080]

" the deed justifies the end" NO it does not miraculous. IDC what happens in the finale. It would never justify the sidelining of cat noir.

[@Dred0n]

True because it was always like this.

[@cato3277]

I get he’s not the main character. But his name is literally in the title and he’s very clearly not meant to be this heavily sidelined.

[@stefaniarusso]

Yeah I know 😊

[@idk-cd4ws]

He's actually the main character. But I agree.

[@Zilkenian_Davenport]

That's kind of the thing: he IS a main character. Both him and Ladybug are the main characters, a duo if you will. I've seen stories pull this off rather well (Slayers, for example).

[@clarehidalgo]

They be treating their deuteragonist poorly

[@clarehidalgo]

@@Zilkenian_Davenport He's supposed to be the deuteragonist, the 2nd most important main character

[@theelitebrawlersbakuganleg4224]

Chat has definitely been given the back seat and been a bit wasted in this season so far

[@lckyminer_2256]

You may not believe me but, I think they're doing it intentionally (hopefully) for his arc.

[@theelitebrawlersbakuganleg4224]

@@lckyminer_2256 I agree

[@nkohler5601]

@@lckyminer_2256 there is intentionally making a character less important and then there is out right removing their relevance to thr plot. We are hitting the latter. He got more screen time in the new York special then he has in in 12 episodes of season 4

[@amaledition339]

I think him being sidelined is what will give him some character developpement

[@nonchalantblack]

I feel like this is intended for the story and possibly a ladynoir fight

[@drewaxon6827]

I think it is just setting up chat blanc

[@z-one5941]

Obviously no. The writers wanted to show how much better Rena Rouge is compared to Garbage Noir. And they proved that masterfully! Alya is smart, cool, great, competent and useful. Garbage Noir is useless, incompetent and dumb. How can people be so dumb actually like this pathetic garbage 😂😂

[@nkohler5601]

He would need to have screen time to be developed as a character. Right now all he has gotten is angst for 5 seconds an episode, usually after everything is done, and punching bag for the fights.

[@cherrytree8528]

@@z-one5941 bruh just shut up. We can like whatever character you want it’s just a kid show, why are you getting annoyed about it? Let people like whatever they want smh.

[@malazkarar1171]

Them being a trio would've been amazing and added a fresh take with dynamics, like you said. But at this point I just want Chat to go evil already. You might think this is far fetched but his actions in wishmaker beg to defer. It would be cool to see a more Adrien-like reserved supervillain, bonus points if his one liners resemble his dad's.

[@miss_chelles1338]

Oh my God yes! I agree with everything you said! I know that sounds messed up, but it was something that has been going on in my head for a while now. Ya know what's funny?, I've actually always had this scenario my head where Adrian joins this team of super-villains from like another universe or whatever, completely abandoning everything he's ever known in his own world. Guess I better make that fanfiction senerio turn into a reality. 😂

[@malazkarar1171]

@@miss_chelles1338 hook me up when you do. This kid need to feel 2 things: feral (checked). And in control (we waiting..). Time to goin interdenominational thugs i guess 🤷🙌😼

[@1AM1AM]

At this point anything different from what he is now would be better for him.

[@malazkarar1171]

@@1AM1AM oof🤣💔

[@mariabeatriz2666]

Yes, it's an interesting idea. But I didn't want him to join his father. It would be like he was controlled again. I prefer an anti-hero, who works alone.

[@Wolfheartgal]

Personally, the writer in me is just screaming: "PLEASE HAVE SOME PAYOFF FOR THIS BECAUSE OTHERWISE, I AM GOING TO LOSE IT". And I have said in other channels and will say this till the end of time: If the show's point is to be a superhero show with romance in it - show us WHY the love interests need each other either in civilian or in hero form! Show us that they make a great team and that Chat is needed for everything to work out because they are equals. Show us why the relationship between Marinette and Adrien is meant to be even though it feels more one-sided than ever. I know that this might have some payoff, but it does not feel like we are anywhere near close to having a satisfying payoff because of the lack of screen time ON HOW ADRIEN FEELS ABOUT BEING LEFT OUT OF THESE THINGS OR HOW HE FELT IN SOME ADVENTURES! At least with Truth, we can see he is annoyed about being stood up for patrol. From what I can see, we have not had any time for him to express how he felt about the new heroes or even if this impacts him more than he is letting on outside of Rocketeer, but even then, that is a small snippet of his actual feelings. I guess what kills me about all of this is yes, we are supposed to be focusing on Marinette. But I get hung up that they are supposed to be equals - per Thomas's initial description of the duo. And right now, it feels more like the Marinette show and just praying all of this sidelining is going to pay off because otherwise, it doesn't feel like it will and just waiting his potential to just adding more fuel to the flame about the Senti-monster Theory, and we are going to have our hearts crushed. Sorry for the rant; it just feels so unfocused in some places and too focused on others that it feels like this will either lead us to have the rug pulled under us or have a mediocre season finale or reveal - neither of which I wish to see.

[@oceandawn26]

Marginalizing the main male protagonist to make the heroine look stronger is a screenwriting mistake I've noticed often in recent years. If the message of the show is supposed to be 'Girlpower!', it would be better to see Marinette not being afraid to ask for help from a partner of a different gender and strengths, Cat Noir. At least it would model a situation girls will face in the real world - having to work with a variety of people.

[@Wolfheartgal]

@@oceandawn26 Totally agree. To be honest, I know from personal experience trying to take on everything your own to the point of breaking down and not asking for any help - as a girl and gender be damned who I ask for help - is not strength. Asking for any help from anyone - guy, girl, genderfluid - it does not matter. But the way they keep saying Marinette is strong and able to handle things on her own where as the show says otherwise, is not "girl power". It is stubborn pride at this point in the writing.

[@kiwifruit5286]

Adriens become what female characters are in other superhero media; a character who the audience is told is useful but in reality is just a useless love interest who needs to be saved

[@grinko1222]

Nah, even Lois Lane has more respect than Adrien. Still terrible writing with the genders swapped

[@lutheroid]

I think that its ok to have him backseat for some later episodes of the season to have the ladynoir fight but not to make him an idiot always needing saving. I love him to pieces in this show, Cat Noir in Stormy Weather made me love the show. He shoulnt always be weak, needs saving every episode and useless. The miraculous are yin and yang. His character has become more like a regular hero.

[@nkohler5601]

They have to make him look useless to build up Ladybug and Rena as competent. Making Gabriel competent would make him too hard to beat. Kickimg Noir down is easier. Also he has been possessed by some on 9 occasions by my count. And Master Fu never truested Adrien with anything. As far as we know he only interacted with Adrien 6 times vs Marinette 19. 3 of the Fu/Adrien interactions were only a few minutes long. Fu also never even seemed to think about training Adrien, resererving all of his time and energy for Marrinette. We are just seeing what has been subtlety hinted at for the last 3 seasons. "Marrinette is a character for the show to develop. Adrien is a tool for the show tomuse"

[@redram6080]

Speaking about Stormy Weather when was the last time he actually used his abilities that aren't cataclysm? In that episode it is implied that he has night vision but I don't think he ever used it again. He also has retractable claws but in one episode (I forgot which one) instead of using those claws both him and Ladybug forgot those existed and they used a spoon lucky charm instead.

[@ChocolateLoveKitten]

@@redram6080 Feels as if even the writers forget the abilities that they assign to their characters.

[@bonneke93]

With the writers giving Ladybug the leader and chat noir the sidekick. I'm speculating the writers don't know what yin and yang means. Last time I checked yin and yang is about balance. One can not live without the other. They shoehorn that in our face the whole series, but keep contradicting itself. And the dumb "TheY ArE MaDe For EaCh oTher" bullcrap need to stop too. If they finally get the identity reveal Andrien can become extremely disapointed. Imagine him finding out the love of his life knew everything about him, his schedule, where he is. Private things regular fans don't know about him. I can keep on ranting. But I will not for the fandoms sake.

[@Dred0n]

@@nkohler5601 and you think that's s good girl go sit your ass down what you're talking is pure bs in each comment.

[@TheFlamingGamerYT]

I’ll be honest here, I feel like this is setting up for a Chat Blanc 2 episode/story to unfold in a future episode. If it’s not actually a sequel to Chat Blanc entirely, it’ll definitely be Chat Blanc-esque, since Cat Noir is starting to get upset that he’s not involved in much of the battles anymore. I don’t have hope that things will turn for the better somehow, but rather Ladybug will have to fight Cat Noir because he got akumitized due to her negligence of not needing him much. Our guy deserves better, but this definitely is far from that

[@KavinCatastrophe]

Well this is What Happen when only one Of your two heroes can Onky De Akumatized or DeAmok a Villain. Your Story is Built around Ladybug being the only that needs to survive if we have a Chance at winning

[@michalelkin-bronner13]

cat noir can just catclm the akuma or amok

[@KavinCatastrophe]

@@michalelkin-bronner13 Yes But Unlike ladybug she Has Two Power. Lucky Charm to get Passed the Villian Defenses and Her Yoyo powers to Purify the Akuma. Catnoir Cataclysm is Use MOSTLY to Get pass the Villians Defense. So unless he can Use Cataclysm Twice he has to basically Fight a Villain without no Powers until he Frees the Akuma. And No he Can't Cataclysm the Akuma Object because that not the Same as Destroying the Akuma he Freeing them From the Object.

[@michalelkin-bronner13]

@@KavinCatastrophe he can use his power more than once when he is an adult

[@giovannirafael5351]

I'd love to see Adrien and Nino's friendship explored, maybe Adrien could even tell he is Cat Noir?

[@leafmagix5294]

I really feel that S4 could have been executed with chat noir feeling pushed to the side, insecure ect. WAY better. The idea was there, and it's a good one. It would have made the story more interesting, compelling, and made for a good plot point. The execution was what failed, it ended in a big flop

[@quietopinion9637]

not really it would feel like S2 again more Sadrien which doesn't make me feel for the character AT ALL.

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

@@quietopinion9637 So your a demon?

[@screw_a_username7491]

@@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian yeah, she comments on people who like Adrien all the time.

[@nemoys_]

I really dislike it when the fans say that they hate that chat noir's being sidelined this season because honestly? that's literally the point. the character himself is AWARE of the fact that he's been rendered pretty useless, it's clearly building up to something that bodes much more importance between episodes 20-26. We're going to be receiving some major character development from adrien's side and hopefully some sort of angsty showdown ladynoir as well? I really like the way they're handling his decreasing sense of self worth in the team, it's done very well. HOWEVER, i don't enjoy the way they've been treating him so incompetently in episodes such an megaleech, where he's seen as less competent than the literal one-time heroes.. it's sad but i dont think the writers know how to physically display his lack of importance is a more nuanced way.. all in all i feel like this is all hopefully going to pay off and likely not stay permanent

[@nkohler5601]

But it will. The writers have been making Noir incompetent season 1. He has been taken over by a villain on 9 occasions and taken out completely to be rescued at least another 5 times. The only difference now is that there is some one competent to fill the gap. Also if the dec 2018 post is to be believed, cat noir will be destroyed at the end of the season. They are just reducing his screen time to make it more easy to take.

[@iblack7132]

I think it's just to quick to judge if they screw up this plot line then we could say they just sidelined him for no good reason and if they manage to pull it off in a good why then we have nothing to complain about

[@redram6080]

@@nkohler5601 I don't believe he's going to die and get replaced but you are right that him being an incompetent sidekick has been a problem that has been there since season 1.

[@Dred0n]

Let's see because these writers always F up something in this show I'm going to patiently waiting and see if he gets a development like alya😒.

[@nemoys_]

@@iblack7132 exactly!! I think it's far too soon to make brash statements

[@simpleteaa]

ngl, I kinda feel bad for Cat Noirs Character :(

[@nkohler5601]

Wait till the end of the season where he dies. That will really get u

[@Dred0n]

@gamers station don't listen to her she's a chat noir hater thomas Already deny it that it won't happen and people told that hater the same thing but she's still repeating the same BS.

[@nkohler5601]

@@Dred0n I didn't know it was debunked. I haven't seen a redaction. Could you tell me where to look?

[@quietopinion9637]

I don't

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

@@quietopinion9637 Yeah. Because your a demon.

[@EYYYYYJustin]

The "What the fuck have I done" look Marinette will have on her face when she realizes it's all her fault Adrien will definitely get Akumatised into main timeline Chat Blanc will feel so satisfying. You neglect my precious cat, he starts scratching at everything that moves. You deserve this Marinette.

[@z-one5941]

Um, no. Mari did nothing wrong. It's Adrien's fault. If he was somewhat competent and useful, Rena Rouge wouldn't have replaced him. Alya is useful, smart, trustworthy and cool, things that Clown Noir has never been and will never be. You're just a toxic Clown Noir stan and can't see how useless and terrible Clown Noir has always been. He's so pathetic 😂😂😂😂

[@dvreaux]

Have you not seen what Marinette has been through? How is it her fault if she doesn't even know cat noir Is feeling this way. Marinette has suffered alot throughout season 4. Yet you show nothing. Marinette doesn't deserve any more suffering. Your wrong

[@cherrytree8528]

@@z-one5941 why are you being so rude over a fictional character? They can like cat noir if they want to ._. You’re the toxic one because you’re literally just being rude to every cat noir fan like CHILL he’s a FICTIONAL character. If they like cat noir that’s their business not yours, grow up.

[@KirstenFaithy]

@@cherrytree8528 tell me about it! That person is so rude

[@reclusivemt5299]

@@z-one5941 sorry they are toxic? Seems like you are the one that’s toxic. Mind you you’re hating on a fictional character. Chat noir has done nothing wrong none of the characters have, it’s called poor writing. The writers have a poor sense of feminism as they don’t know how to write a female character and a male character equal. Adrien is very interesting and has an interesting life that would be great to see both him and ladybug side by side instead of the show always kicking him to the curb.

[@animated_finn]

Honestly I just wanted Chat Noir to have the ability to “purify” akumas. I mean it makes SENSE. He DESTROYS the evil inside. It would be similar to how Hawkmoth evilises them and it could show the evil sparkle/ circle things going out of the butterfly and into his ring. And the more akumas he purifies the more his power can expand. Examples of power upgrades I thought of (in a vague order of progression) (Playing into his night vision ability) Chat Noir would be able to see where the akumatised object is, highlighted by a green outline to him. Able to shoot his cataclysm like a projectile (similarly to chat blanc). Able to shoot a small cataclysm (bearing a very uncanny resemblance to plagg) which would follow the akumatised object constantly until he either de transforms or it hits an object at all . It wouldn’t follow it STRICTLY, but more loosely so if someone passes a corner at the last second it would hit where they would’ve used to been. Able to shoot his cataclysm as lightning/ electricity (playing into the electricity theme he has). It would function exactly like the normal cataclysm but he can use it multiple times. Each time he uses it, it speeds up his time he has left until he detransforms.

[@Orkprof]

MEGALEECH: He joins the fight and immediately starts whining that LB isn't there. Acts as a distraction to the enemy and falls to them after a couple of minutes, AS USUAL. GUILTRIP: Aside from the fact that he falls to the guilt-bubbles TWICE... He's got sharp cat claws, ffs! He should have been the only one able to climb out of the sentimonster and save the day! But no, Ladybug's got a pickaxe, so.... CROCODUEL: They forget they have a power-up that lets them fly just to have an excuse to summon a new hero, who in the end doesn't do anything Chat Noir couldn't have done by himself. Worse, they give Tigresse *his* usual job, i.e. be a distraction for the enemy; but where he'd normally resist a couple of minutes before being defeated, she gets rid of TWO akumatized in... ONE PUUUUUUUUNCH!

[@nkohler5601]

I do agree with you for the most part. I think this has always been the trend the when when they need something to happen or a new hero, that Nior's basic usefulness falls like a stone. But they at least tried to balance it out over a longer period so it wasn't as noticeable. Adrien's interactions with master Fu is a perfect example. By my count, Fu and Adrien interacted 6 times between season 2 and 3. Marrinette and Fu interacted 19. That is a 3x more. I have actually come up with the saying "Marrinette is a character for the show to develop. Adrien is a tool for the show to use"

[@darkchocolatemuffins9727]

I'm absolutely pissed about this whole disrespect towards Cat Noir as a main character, but, I feel like they're prepping for his ultimate understandable betrayal towards ladybug. These are professionals writing this show, so I wont be quick to criticize, I'll trust that they did this for a reason. And there had better be a good damn reason for this, ABUSE towards him, YES I WENT THERE😤

[@coldbutsweet9748]

I hope that they handle it well and in my opinion I think it's fair of you to call it abuse.

[@nickioleary8577]

I get why they’re doing this to Chat, but I agree that it feels like too much

[@Sugarsoleil_uwu]

I do agree that it’s really harsh that Adrien/Chat Noir is being sidelined but honestly I believe it’s the point. Setting this up to show something bigger in the future. Like how Chat got mad and hit something out of rage when Rena Rouge and Ladybug had a plan together. Honestly I’m really intrigued as to where his development is gonna go, maybe antagonistic? Or betrayal or flat out raging because he’s being kept in the dark. It’s gonna be exciting that’s for sure.

[@86thfloor2]

COMPLETELY AGREE! It really feels like the irrelevance of Cat Noir could have been a really great plot point, but instead it feels like he's just being overlooked in favour of other, under developed characters. I'm enjoying the tension between him and Ladybug, but that tension is so hit and miss, because sometimes he just doesn't seem bothered by being left out. Very frustrating! Interested to see where Season 4 ends up leaving it.

[@soscarlettitwasss]

I feel like this is being done on purpose to give Chat/Adrien some character development. There is high chance that he finally snaps at LB somewhere between episodes 20-26. And I feel like sidelining Chat and showing him gradually getting angry and feeling left out is more realistic than showing him suddenly snapping in one episode, and I actually like how this plotline is progressing steadily and makes sense

[@summerbird7570]

Its not so much him being side-lined thats the problem as I too like the angst but , its bringing chat down through the writing to make him look less capable which is the problem. You don't have to take chat down just to make others look better .He can hold his own , he is very smart , he is a very capable hero however , sometimes with the writing they bring him down to seem stupid or like he is a rookie. Yes, he does make mistakes here and there as he gets ahead of himself , he has little freedom in his personal life so as chat he sometimes doesn't know where the line is. They do it so often and its annoying . It makes it almost seem like he's a bad hero and Fu made a mistake when that's not the case . With minor tweaks here and there this will be fixed to do the same thing without making him seem less competent .

[@JesusIsTheSonOfGod_john316]

We know this show has *0* character development

[@lilymadkins3558]

@@JesusIsTheSonOfGod_john316 Eh the show always convincing character development in my opinion. It just wasn't enough in the previous seasons because the show followed an episodic format so the result of zero continuity felt like 0 development. However season 4 with it's linear storyline has been so far really great with developing all its characters.

[@JesusIsTheSonOfGod_john316]

@@lilymadkins3558 good point

[@nkohler5601]

@@summerbird7570 Adrien has always been simply fight the hords and get mind controlled by the villain to make them seem like a threat. His intelligence in a fight has only appeared one or twice. Other then that he is the comedic relief. This season is just taking away the funny bits.

[@snape-itachiel6167]

Adrien\Cat is the BEST character in the series and I feel like although he's being pushed down by the creators right now he's destined for greatness once the series will reach its climax because his background story is so messed up and complicated

[@le_shooty759]

The fact that Adrien/chat noir is being sidelined is so fucking bizarre to me. It’s quite obviously his story, his father is the villain, his mother is the one that’s being kept in his basement he has no idea he has, it’s all centered around him and his family.

[@haydhelmahesh7667]

Adrien is one the most smartest students in their class ,his lowest grade is an A- . And he is shown to be dumb just for the audience to see ladybug is BETTER!!! in the name of women empowerment !!!!!!

[@nkohler5601]

I'm not sure of it's "woman empowerment" so much as "Marrinette is too perfect to fail". but just because a person is book smart doesn't translate to real world use. Lots of people who have 8+ years of study on master degrees get pointless jobs because their field is so narrow it may as well be useless. No matter how smart they are.

[@smartcookie1806]

@@nkohler5601 Marinette’s failed many times before. Maybe not always long term, but it has happened.

[@nkohler5601]

@@smartcookie1806 Marrinette has failed but has been allowed to fix or learn from her mistakes. Ladybug's only ones I can come up with are being overly aggressive when calling out Lila (she apologized for in oni-chan) losing the bee miraculous (later recovered) and leading hawkmoth to Fu (not mitigated but Fu was training her to replace him so expected) Adrien nor Noir have been given such opportunity. While his mistakes have been mostly smaller in scale they have been far more numerous and repeated. Marrinette is learning from her mistakes. Adrien is not

[@haydhelmahesh7667]

@@nkohler5601 that is because the writer's decide to do so , I always feel like Adrien is made more dumb to prove marinette is better . Like reflektadol , and desparada etc. But no hate on marinette I love her with my whole heart I just think this is just lousy writting

[@haydhelmahesh7667]

@@smartcookie1806 marinette may have learned from her mistakes and changed but she never seem to face many consequences to her mistakes . And in the context I meant that marinette always seen as a superior to cat noir and is better at everything , they are supposed to be partners , but till now there haven't been much equality between them .

[@mannyegarica12]

It feels like the show writers are slowly pushing Cat Noir/Adrian out of the superhero team. Even though he's part of the main story since his father is shadowmoth. And we might get chat Blanc 2.0 personal health or Adrian becomes the new Hawk moth deep in the dark future

[@nkohler5601]

No. They are just preping us for writing him out of the show entirely

[@miss_chelles1338]

@@nkohler5601 bruh, know they're not. they know for a FACT that if they do that the fans are going to Riot. Even if things might look bad right now, it's obviously leading up to something. I can easily tell.

[@miss_chelles1338]

@Indigo Lampo I mean.... yeah. But like.... is that a problem? Okay, before you come at me, I'm not taking about *everything* that you said is not being a problem in the show. I actually agree with you for the most part. I guess you could say, that the way how I look at it: Adrien will finally grow a pair and stop simping for ladybug. (Even if it is for the time being unfortunately). That's actually why Im looking forward to a chat blanc 2.

[@johnnemblem]

I can only hope that this all leads to Ladynoir fight that builds both of their characters and will probably lead to a reveal and them being closer and finally be true partners. And then they’ll still have the whole will they won’t they thing cause of course

[@nkohler5601]

They were never true partners. Even Plagg has said so.

[@Dred0n]

@@nkohler5601 yeah because lamebug can't be trusted and she doesn't know how to work when it comes to partnership.

[@nkohler5601]

@@Dred0n first. We seem to really be disagreeing on this Ravanique. Thank you for a conflicting view point to talk over Second. Marrinette is able to work with Alya quite well. She just doesn't seem to see Noir as a full person. Merely a sentient tool for her to defeat Shadowmoth with. An analogy is people value their horses (noir) for a trip but feel more deeply for their traveling companion better. Marrinette just doesn't Noir on the same level as she does Alya.

[@quietopinion9637]

@@Dred0n Sexism bro

[@Dred0n]

@@nkohler5601 Yeah but can't defeat a villain on her own she always want help if wasn't for chat noir she wouldn't reach where she is and alya would have probably be somewhere in the dust. But I'm not in the future it's going to ladybug and chat noir team of superhero🤣😂😂😂😌 so troll continue stay pressed.

[@philippemaurice8782]

Chloé fans: "First time?"

[@JohnSacapano]

Cat Noir has been a comic relief throughout the show who was barely taken seriously- whilst Season 4 lessens his exposure, it drills into the audience the stirring of his negative emotions- before we saw him upset but we rarely saw him angry. Season 4 shows him show a side to him that we rarely got to see, and exacerbating his feeling of abandonment catches up to him since he became Cat Noir, which makes for a more compelling story for his character.

[@eeveewafflez1768]

Chat is going to be "relevant" no matter what as long as Hawkmoth is his father, that's how I feel. Once they take away that fact, there's probably little to no way to make him as relevant as he was before (not saying it's impossible but the chances are slim with this writing). He's such an underused character that he basically depends on Hawkmoth's relevancy (and soon reveal) to be "important" himself

[@miss_chelles1338]

THIS right here! actually... I never really thought about it that way before, but considering that the ml fans always use the whole "agreste household mystery" thing as an excuse as to why Adrien's character is more "interesting" than Marinette's, I wouldn't be surprised of that's the case.

[@eeveewafflez1768]

@@miss_chelles1338 Yup and its sad. Like don't get me wrong, his household situation isn't the only thing that makes him interesting, but it is the biggest thing and it makes him important to the plot besides being the MC crush. I just truly hope after the season finale with everyone speculating Gabe will no longer be Hawkmoth, Chat will be able to stand on his own as someone important

[@Skevatheo]

I think it would be best for Cat Noir to leave the team. He should be his own hero.

[@demogorgon8119]

He can even destroy Akumas with his power. Perhaps he can save Paris on his own to prove his value to everyone 🤔

[@Skevatheo]

@@demogorgon8119 even if he does so, something tells me he still won't be appreciated. If that happens, then he'll surely leave. Too bad for Ladybug.

[@Skevatheo]

@gamers station thank you. Though I don't think it's actually gonna happen. I can still hope...

[@Skevatheo]

@gamers station yup. That's what I meant. How much more biased can Thomas Astruc get?

[@Skevatheo]

@gamers station he's never gonna do that. He's just gonna call as misogynists and cry like a baby! I'm a woman myself and I don't get his idea of "feminism".

[@meganrushworth8321]

I think the worse part about not giving good character development to chat noir is it could effect Adrien’s as they are the same person

[@electrobob992]

This might cause cat noir to be so sick of how he's being treated and do something that would also free him of his secrets. Specifically he'd think: "Since you're right it could cause hawkmoth to target us if we reveal our identities and you have OTHER heroes to partner with... I quit...... Here is my miraculous, I don't want to be teamed with someone who doesn't even TRUST her closest teammates" But unlike in the special, he does it in FRONT of her, leaving her shocked.

[@quietopinion9637]

lol he's also at fault for assuming shit

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

@@quietopinion9637 Choke on a Sugar cube!

[@kardelenkoc9746]

i think cat noir should be as important as ladybug because the shows name is miraculous: ladybug and cat noir. also they are yin and yang of the miraculouses: they are the center piece, they compliment each other, they are equal

[@karkloll]

No its not miraculous tales of ladybug and catnoir Its Miraculous tales of ladybug and *RENA ROUGE*

[@arash.a2358]

I feel like all this is for a reason,creators know that the Fandom loves chat noir, so my guess is all this is going to lead to a huge confrontation beteween ladybug and chat noir most likely in episode 22. And that most likely marinette is going to somehow find out that chat noir is adrien in the same episode.one more thing I want to add is that in the season 4 finale description it Says that "will marinette reveal her identity for the sale of love". As far as I remember marinette never Wanted adrien to fall in love with her just because she was ladybug,so the reason she is going this far is because she knows he is chat noir This is just my theory

[@nkohler5601]

My theory is that Noir loses the ring in 22, either to shadow moth or ladybug, then will be destroyed in 26 like Thomas said back in 2018. The creator's know the fans like Noir but the director Thomas Arstic has went on record that he does not. The show is just getting ready to dump the creator hted character.

[@arash.a2358]

@@nkohler5601 maybe felix steals his ring

[@cherrytree8528]

@@arash.a2358 felix will most likely use the power for bad and not good.

[@blazelazin5752]

8:50 LOL Isn't that already happening, most of us viewers call Miraculous Ladybug and Catnoir only Miraculous Ladybug. For me I call it "Miraculous" to keep it at balance.

[@lemonpoppyseed3169]

I wonder if Cat Noir does have a way to capture an akuma that way he would be equal to Ladybug, but plagg never had time to tell it to him because he transformed way to fast for him to say it (Origin 1) And plagg doesn’t know that Adrien doesn’t know how he can capture an akuma. But I could be wrong.

[@iamawesome4026]

He can just cataclysm the akuma instead of letting ladybug do it all the time.

[@lemonpoppyseed3169]

@@iamawesome4026 True. But I’m wondering if he could have another power, like ladybug does we’re he can just kill/capture the akuma and is different than the cataclysm.

[@YouveBeenMegged]

He can destroy the akuma, he just can’t fix everything afterwards. They should have had it where Cat Noir is the only one who can get rid of the akuma while Ladybug is the one who fixes the damage.

[@lemonpoppyseed3169]

@@YouveBeenMegged I agree. Bad scrip writing. It would’ve made the show more interesting.

[@lemonpoppyseed3169]

@Indigo Lampo I agree with you. He shouldn’t be appealing to toxic feminism, men and women are equal. Hopefully the show makes some adjustments and make Cat Noir and Ladybug equal in the near future.

[@AdaHazard]

Completely agreed, and more than that, you pissed me off in this video by describing ways this could have all been so much better hahaha. How dare you make me sad with your much, much better ideas!

[@stineandersen56]

As a writer (or rather someone who dreams to become a published writer), seeing the way Cat Noir is being treated as a character by the writers, is heart breaking. I get that they want tension between Ladybug and Cat Noir, but Smarty is completely right in the fact that they are doing it completely wrong. I don't want to see a Cat Noir who keeps failing, because he suddenly lost half his brain cells and skills, and therefore becomes the comic releif. I want to see a Cat Noir who doubts his role besides Ladybug, and starts to rebel. I want to see a Cat Noir who trains and tries hard to do even better. I want to see a Cat Noir who will ignore Ladybug's orders, and try and fix things himself. How cool would it be, to have an episode where the tension between the two can be felt so vividly, yet Ladybug doesn't understand why Cat Noir doesn't want to listen to her advice? And Cat Noir, through that entire episode, is just so done with being set aside and replaced, that he tries to show Ladybug that he doesn't need her help to succeed. That he is a good hero and can be more than just the helper. And he doesn't succeed, not because he need Ladybug to succeed, but because they both need each other, and need to be able to trust each other and work together. It doesn't need to be an episode that fixes everything. It could even be the start of Ladybug noticing the rift between them, and could be where it gets worse. Because, in most cases, things need to get worse before they can become better. I want to see Ladybug having to actively work to get Cat Noir's trust back. I want her to have to show him, that he isn't being replaced, that he is still important. And I don't want it to be easy for her either. Because, the trust they need to have in each other, to be able to work with each other in such a dangerous environment, has to be unbreakable. And with everything that Cat Noir has been feeling, to get that trust back will take time and work. These are just my thoughts on the matter.

[@J3X50]

One of the reasons I keep watching this show is in hopes Cat Noir comes out on top. Prime example of wasted potential.

[@Glacialgaming]

“They might aswell change the title of the show and remove his character tbh” Don’t Jynx it.

[@yazeedali8885]

You guys realize that he will definitely be useful later on since his FATHER is HockMoth right. But still that later on and there has been reported to be 7 seasons of Miraculous Ladybug and CatNoir so I hope that they don't treat him like this until then because I truly love Cat Noir

[@thunderbro7218]

I’m pretty sure his lack of usefulness is the point that way he’ll turn into chat blanc later

[@sarahkimberley9375]

Season 4 is now 'The Adventures of Ladybug and Rena Rougue'. So tired of Alya and now shes gonna be Ladybug! 😵 Ladynoir ship is sinking 🚢💥

[@Advikavwgmail.com23]

Yeah it will exciting to see alaya as ladybug but ath the same time I am feeling sad for catnoir...

[@anonanon5046]

I wish they would have a moment where Chat discovers some new aspect of his powers and starts to use them or something. Marinette/Ladybug has had so many moments like that. Especially when Master Fu was still around. Whereas Chat has had no development in that department. He has had the same skills since the beginning of the series and has used them the same way. Where Ladybug is discovering new ways to use her creation powers and learning about the Miraculouses, he hasn’t progressed at all. They should definitely have an episode where he hones some skill that will help him against villains so that he won’t continue to be beat by them constantly.

[@MythicallyUmbreon]

I agree with you. To add to that, He needs a upgrade too. Like I know being a guradian and all gives some advantage to marinette. But she should help Chat Noir get a upgrade too. Or give him so kind of access of what he can do with his powers now that she holds the information for being a miraculous guardian.

[@o.8.p149]

Oh wow all the interesting characters are being sidelined

[@quietopinion9637]

Not really

[@o.8.p149]

@@quietopinion9637 Adrien, Felix, Lila, Chole, sure Alya is now getting time but only appearing in one episode or only being a focus in one episode isn’t being in the front

[@DasharStar]

If he becomes an anti hero personally I wouldn't be mad about it

[@paola_valcheva]

I think that they cant defeat any villian without him cause in every episode ladybug has to be covered which is cat noirs thing. In other case ladybug is not feeling complited without him like in the new york special. Maybe there is gonna be a return of cat blanc because he couldnt be left in the dark anymore and then ladybug realises that cat noir is realy special character for her. But im expecting: there is a villian outside, ladybug and the other heroes TRYING to defeat tha villian, they desperetly need cat noir, adrian seeing all of that but sitting on his sofa watching TV,plagg eating his cheese but at the same time he is worried about paris and adrien doing nothing. IDK WHY i want this but that will be something like a sweet revenge on ladybug for lefting him on second tought. idk just an opinion. Besides he is so cooooool especially when he is adrien. With plagg they just break it down. Im totaly in his defense

[@cherrytree8528]

Well ladybug did defeat a villain without anyone so she can.

[@paola_valcheva]

@@cherrytree8528 true

[@nkohler5601]

If Adrien exists only to severe as Marrinette's cheerleader then is he a character or just a prop like Ladybugs yoyo? I don't want you theory to happen, mostly because the writers have not show the ability to to that line and make him sympathy in such situations. It will end up making Adrien petty and spiteful rather then down trotted and misused. Copycat, glacius and everything with Lila have proven they have no capacity in justified actions. Only for his advice and actions to result in the worst possible outcome

[@paola_valcheva]

@@nkohler5601 (actully i could add that but the comment would be very long) from one of the scripts for episodes i learnt that adrien sit in front of the tv and watvhing the news like what i said in the comment

[@Dred0n]

@@cherrytree8528 who?

[@theaboveaveragefangirl]

I really hope Cat Noir being wasted is buildup. But the writers are pushing it to far and have him act out of character. And whatever this is foreshadowing better pay off. We all don't want to see our favorite character being wasted for a stupid reason.

[@karencarter18042]

I think you have to count lies and truth as one episode due to them being the same day and Adrien can't be everywhere .

[@ashleydortch2445]

I guess is why they making Adrien/cat noir so useless is so they can make Marinette/🐞 and the other girls look better and superior. Also make the other boys look bad and stupid.. I know the show is aim at girls but still cat noir needs to be treated better. At this point they should just remove him and replace him with alya. Hell I won't be shocked if they ultimately do it.

[@Silver-Kaitou]

Short answer: Yes. Long answer: *_YES._*

[@tytotech9498]

This may be hopeful thinking, but the fact that they're pointing out how poorly he's being treated, he may get a huge development.

[@cristyflaherty4902]

I think Cat noir will have a major moment going forward because he has been building up not being useful and sidled so there will most likely be a point where he breaks and something will happen like he will be akumitized, break down and talk to Lady bug or just be his own hero instead of working with her, or (my favorite) he stops being a hero and Ladybug will wounder where he is and later Ladybug sees what she was doing and he something will happen that they can't defeat without Cat noir and Ladybug will try to find him so she could use Calki to find him and say she wants to talk and Cat noir will say something like "You have all of them so you figure it out because you clearly don't need me anymore." and that could be where she figures it out or she finds out before and apologizes and tells him she needs him.

[@nekogamer2508]

Highly unlikely remember he is male and Thomas Austruc thinking men getting character development when the show has a female lead is misogyny

[@tytotech9498]

@@nekogamer2508 Which, high key, kinda sexist if he thinks a female lead can't hold up if men can develop too.

[@Hoveai]

It would interesting is Adrian finds out something about the miraculous before Marinette such as the angrier he is the stronger his Cataclysm, but the quicker he would de-transform after. In a fit of anger he could end up destroying a whole building. Ladybug tries to miraculous ladybug but the building remains destroyed. Later Tiki tells Marinette that Plagg's power erased the building completely unable to be restored. Luckily the building was empty or all the people inside would be erased too.

[@Psychoangel-d23]

Let´s be real here, they upstaged almost every character just to make marinette/ladybug look amazing. Hell now cat is just the clicheé "dorky sidekick" who is mostly there for comic relief. dont expect it to change anytime soon since they dont seem to be capable to humble ladybug and have others take the lead for once.

[@lilacthorn4333]

Maybe they are setting him up to be a villian. Not an akuma but an actual villian.

[@zukoshonour5964]

Smarty pants: "You can see his disapointment, I hope they follow up with it" Al Smarty Pants: *Complains*

[@zukoshonour5964]

btw he said that in the Optigami review

[@fakhrinasution7547]

To make me feel better about chat being sidelined i think of it as build up for a return of chat blanc But i know this could be wrong since i really liked chat blanc as a villain character and i just want to see more of him

[@WarmLillie]

They are doing a good job with Rena Rouge importance and also Catnoir feeling useless and lonely. The problem is they doing bit too well and can’t balance it out. They good at making duo and squads. But they need bit more work together for a trio. If this imbalance keep up, all I can say “Miraculous: Tales of Ladybug and Rena Furtive, Featuring Catnoir also Miraculous holder DLC.”

[@nkohler5601]

They are just setting the stage for writing Cat Noir out at the end of the season

[@randomcomment1286]

@@nkohler5601 Why would they do that, the only reason this show got enough attention, is because of the confusing love square, and they can't drag it out without Chat Noir.

[@nkohler5601]

@@randomcomment1286 they can. By making season 5 about resurrection of Adrien they can change the stakes of the battle from merely keeping tnr city safe to a more personal story of rescuing a lost person important to the hero. The old book series Animophs has a large sub plot about the character Marco rescuing his mom who I controlled by the alien parasite. Lasts nearly 30 books.

[@randomcomment1286]

@@nkohler5601 I guess that could work, but yet again, Adrien has died and be resurrected by Ladybug's lucky charms a dozen times. At this rate, killing him off would be lazy shock value.

[@almasshamsudeen2888]

Can someone please say me the full form of 'DLC' Sorry

[@itsmellslikeupdoginhere5756]

Also I've pretty much lost all respect for Creepinette/Assholebug at this point for her blunder during New York. She knows that she's Chat's Kryptonite and yet she still ripped into him mid fight. Which ended up killing Uncanny Valley.

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

Exactly!

[@tophatring8445]

Yep yep yep

[@Lylabear12]

You Make no sense

[@_prince._.zenx_4352]

The show from the start made ladybug more powerful even thought they literally have the same power. But as chat was always like captured by the villain and ladybug being more professional they liked ladybug more. When the show creators understood that they showed ladybug more attention they started to change it with chat blank. Yeah they showed her more attention. All Ladybug ladybug ladybug. They didn't make something important for chat only ladybug....but chat can be useful! He just needs to be serious! Ladybug is just giving out miraculouses even thought she can do it herself with cat!

[@h4ppysunshn317]

He is my favourite character

[@myname793]

Well it's sad that you don't see his heroism in Rocketear. And how venerable he is when it comes to his friends. Cat isn't weak in Guiltrip. He isn't "useless" how you call it. He just can't bare the thought of being Nino worst guilt. The same in Rocketear. Him leaving his stuff is an act of courage. Of pure love for his friend. It's absolutely in character. In wishmaker he is already on his last straws of sanity. He gave up due to that. He constantly has problems with his identity. So he wavers and gets hit. This is an indicator of him slowely falling apart, not being "useless". As for other episodes - Adrien is feeling worse and worse. To execute this well, you need to make the audience feel it with him. So Rena happened. She is everything Cat isn't. She knows who Ladybug is, she has a loving boyfriend, she is able to relive some stress from Marinette. And that makes Cat a little left out. It is really necessary for building up his finale. And no, he isn't useless now. You can say even Ladybug got sidelined by Rena in few episodes, but as we watch them - we are doing it from Marinette perspective, so of course we see her on screen more often. In the Bubbler, Rocketear and Hack-san she is slowely getting less and less involved. I'm not saying the writing is perfect, but there is a reason it is like it is. We will be able to fully judge it after the season ends.

[@lenastorm6280]

Let's be honest: The only one who cares about Chat Noir (not Adrien) is Plagg! Not even Ladybug cares about her partner.

[@glitchyfox8706]

I'm pretty sure he is going to either quit and give his ring back to ladybug directly after he finds out about his dad and mums situation. Or he find out after and does what he can as himself

[@sofiasartstudios6618]

Honestly it is such a shame that the show consistently fails to develop the very interesting ideas that are already there, especially with Cat Noir. It is so easy to see where it could have been done better and just makes you question what's going on in writing/production. I desperately hope they can spin things around, especially considering they have already explored new avenues this season, but I doubt Cat Noir will get the attention he deserves. His character has so much potential and such an interesting background to explore, which makes it all the more frustrating.

[@quietopinion9637]

Interesting how? Wow evil parents go bruuuuh it's nothing new

[@sofiasartstudios6618]

@@quietopinion9637 that’s true, but I mean exploring it further. We all know his dad (and maybe mom, another potential plot point) is evil, but that adds nothing to the show because they never use it to create tension. Adrien never notices weird things at home. They have NO issues hiding their identities even though it should, logistically, be really difficult. And that’s just one wasted theme. Adrien should, logically, have really bad social skills due to being isolated his whole life, and they mention that in passing, but we never see him struggle. He also never seems to struggle with putting up the “perfect child” front all the time, except as Chat Noir. Surely it would be painful to constantly bury your real self away, no? But that’s never shown, only glossed over and made to be simpler than it is, and that’s what frustrates me :/ but I totally get your point

[@quietopinion9637]

@@sofiasartstudios6618 Actually you make some valid points about why I can't sympathise with his character anymore because he had no realistic struggles as Chat or Adrien. Granted he is now struggling again with those said social cues in S4 with how to address Ladybug about his role in the team but I just get no tension from his character at all & all this build could've been solved had Marinette shown her struggles about Chat Blanc and Adrien questioning his dad more. I'm not even sure Adrien knows his real self anymore because even Chat has always been a mask for him too & I honestly really hate how people came for Kagami for not liking Adrien's "real self" that was proof that he himself divides these personalities a lot. I just wish Adrien trusted his friends more because the reason why people judge Chat more is because he doesn't actively work to change his role. All this could've been solved had Adrienette been shown as better friends then constantly talking about romance. Like the best fics I know are when Marinette gets to comfort Adrien or vise versa but we just don't get that and that further divides them as characters. I just think both Adrien and Marinette are wasted because of the romance aspect of the show.

[@sofiasartstudios6618]

@@quietopinion9637 Exactly! He has struggled more this season with being sidelined by ladybug, but we don’t see exactly how it impacts him in his everyday life. If these vulnerabilities were explored it would make him easier to sympathize with, like you said. Also yes, I would love to see more friendly interactions between Adrien and Marinette because it would really help establish a strong friendship where they can share their struggles (even if not directly about their secret identities).

[@AslanArkin]

I miss S1& S2 so bad😭 I've been watching this show since the first season aired and I instantly fell in love with all the characters (especially Chat) I remember screaming and jumping in happiness when they kissed in dark cupid. I remember being so genuinely sad when Chat would sacrifice himself to try and save Ladybug. I remember actually tearing up when Chat said "Whoever she is, I love that girl." In the origins episode. I remember shipping MariChat so hard, because I wanted them to get to know and love the real them. I remember rooting for them so much, looking at fanart, watching sad shipping videos, watching those fan videos about the future of the series. I remember waiting almost 3 YEARS for just a second season, with so much anticipation. .....And Now? I'm just really sad. I used to love this series and it's character's but now It's like I don't even know who they are supposed to be anymore. Marinette/Ladybug are no longer the shy girl that just wanted to help because she could, finally gaining confidence in herself and her abilities. She's just a selfish person now. Adrian/Chat Noir are no longer the lonely, akward new kid with a good heart or the wisecracking but always dependable partner. He's just a empty shell, a plot device. This is not the series I fell in love with anymore. It's just really sad to see what's happened to it. I Miss the old Miraculous 🐞🐈‍⬛❤

[@RodrigoSilva-cy4no]

I understand and appreciate that the writers want to build a team to change the dynamics of the show. But the thing is, they still have many things to build and develop. This show has had 3 entire seasons. Yet a person could simply watch the origins episode, a couple of other episodes from season 2 and the last episode from season 3 and then they could season 4. Their understanding of the show wouldn’t be affected in the slightest. This to say that prior to season 4 there have been very few episodes where important development happens. In other words, LB and CN have basically the same relationship and so do Adrien and Marinette. So even though the past seasons were more focussed on them, it still feels like their characters need a lot done hence why the idea of building a team and bringing other characters isn’t right for this point in this show. The way I see it, we first need to see the culmination of Adrien and Marinette’s characters arcs, as heroes, teammates and as the love interest of one another, which includes the reverse of the love square and maybe the reveal. After getting this done, then I’d be more than happy to see more heroes getting to shine at the cost of Lb and CN, because their characters would be complete. Right now, I don’t think Alya is bringing anything fresh to the show, mainly cause we haven’t really seen anything. Up to season 3 very few things changed. So I feel like we need the screen time for both of the main heroes to grow. They’ve had 3 seasons to do so and did nothing literally. Now they want to force changes into the show because episodes were getting very repetitive. Maybe instead of spending 3 seasons writing unimportant episodes, they could have written episodes that connect and relate to each other, making meaningful contributions to the plot. All of this to say that I’m mad that CN is losing screen time, not because I don’t like Alya and not because I hate the idea of a team, but because CN is yet to have meaningful development.

[@leoniemelodie7]

I 100% agree. Please... I miss Cat Noir's character from season 1 so much. At the time the only thing that was frustrating was that him and Ladybug weren't very close, they were like coworkers, mainly because Ladybug treated him this way. I miss Cat Noir's enthusiasm to beat villains, his acts of heroism out of pure kindness, his massive strength (more than ladybug) and how fun and exciting his parts in the battles were (He was so extra, when recently his "goofy" moments feel off, like the miracle box goal). He was a serious threat that didn't take himself seriously. The romantic arc too! The tension.... Now, it'd just sad. Their relationship is focused on their friendship, which is fine, but it's not developed enough. They don't hangout, they still know almost nothing about each other, the trust they've built is questionable, they don't act as the coordinated duo they are written to be. Cat Noir's good sides aren't apparent these days. The way they write him is clearly different and I'm not happy at the moment. I hope it changes for the better.

[@goblinnun]

The writers do things for a reason, something big is probably gonna happen at the end of the season

[@victoriaescobedo5458]

I want Chat to become mad at Ladybug for leaving him in the dark, and then realize that he can be better off without her and his father's approval.

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

Yes!!!

[@loiiysailor1177]

he's getting mad slowly

[@harrisonblanck4658]

This is just my thoughts but maybe all of this Cat Noir being wasted is leading to him becoming Cat blanc in the main timeline. I mean back when season 4 was being teased they mentioned that what Marinette did when she had to go fix the future was going to affect the current timeline. So maybe this is what it is building up to Cat Noir's eventual Akumatized for the season fours ending or maybe sooner who knows but this is what I am currently thinking in my mind,

[@nkohler5601]

Or if we listen to the dec 2018 Twitter, just kill of Cat Noir completely

[@thellamamaster9252]

The next episode doesn't bode well either. Alia is going to briefly become ladybug, and what do you want to bet that she is going to be actually competent unlike Mr. Bug. I just hope Cat Noir actually helps her out