Is Catradora Toxic? (Video Essay)

[@its_lemon_19]

8:40 agreed that Lumity is more healthy but I think as a fandom we tend to turn Amity's character into just "gay panic" and make her just "Luz's girlfriend" and not a human being. She is smart, hard working, brave, a prodigy with magic, an athlete, she wants to be a writer, she's shy, a good friend etc. Just felt like a lot of people need a healthy reminder that Amity is a character who exists outside of Lumity.

[@owlbert2020]

I feel like people would remember this more if we had more time with the new Amity outside of Lumity. Which we probably would’ve gotten with a full season 3

[@DishonorableMentions452]

She wants to be a writer? If thats canon they didnt make that very memorable

[@beaniegorll2759]

@@DishonorableMentions452 naaah luz wanted to be a writer lmao amity had no direction in life and was just following her parents demands

[@ghostjam5984]

Yeah honestly I got sick of the owl house because amity was so one note that I quit.

[@saramcmurtrie3955]

She caused the end of the world to spite her. Thank you for saying it she never left her.

[@tuumef1799]

After the season 3 finale, I fully expected literally the whole world to be going after Catra's head. Seeing everyone leave her over the fourth season was a treat, especially when Double Trouble let her have it.

[@saramcmurtrie3955]

Catra killed Glimmers mom and Glimmer blamed Adora for her mom's death.

[@Amityz72323]

It was mentioned in the video....which I presume you didn't even watch...

[@saramcmurtrie3955]

I did my point was a couple good deeds does not make up for that.

[@Amityz72323]

@@saramcmurtrie3955 She got a second chance, whether you like it or not everybody deserves one if they're willing to truly work to correct themselves and their past mistakes. We can see in the future that she did exactly that with time.

[@arandomladywithabadsleepsc1748]

@@Amityz72323 Catra did not redeem herself. Even in the finale, she still thinks Adora left her. “Please *just this once, stay.* “

[@Amityz72323]

@@arandomladywithabadsleepsc1748 ….no…? That’s literally her asking her not to leave her then, doesn’t work that way

[@crumbsintopebbles]

There's a really good scene in which Adora says "You made your choice... now live with it!" I do think Catra was a victim of abuse and deserves to grow as a person, but don't know if dating Adora is going to heal her (or if she even deserves Adora's forgiveness). Personally, I would have made them part ways. Like "You deserve to grow and heal, but you'll have to do that by yourself because the damage you've done to me throughout the years is too big to overlook".

[@dorilefish]

Time for me to give massive appreciation to everything you've just said for the past hour. You were spot on on the analysis with Catradora without denying or erasing the fact of both of their unhealthy mentalities and behaviors. It feels like a lot of the times the fandom would either sweep it under the rug OR try to twist it into something it wasn't. So I was really happy when you've mentioned about some of the fans going overboard sometimes and how some would end up placing a positive light on something that wasn't meant to be presented as positive. I love how you mentioned about Catra and Adora initially starting off in a pretty bad, toxic relationship in the first '2 seasons' of the series because of Adora's mentality of placing everything on her shoulders and blaming herself regardless of circumstances, and then Catra's victim mentality because of her being an actual victim and then continuing that wagon as a false conclusion to why everything ended up this way. Viewing Adora as one of the main parts to the catalyst of Catra's suffering, and her inability to succeed. Especially with her noticing the patterns of once Adora left, everything looked like it was going up for Catra to be able to gain validation and to prove herself as force captain as you mentioned. But then discuss about how both Adora and Catra started developed better habits and mentalities with Adora standing up for herself, and only fell backwards in the Beast Island episode before taking 3 steps forward with herself. And then Catra finally taking time to reflect and start revaluating her behaviors and how SHE have been the main catalyst for her own suffering, and observing on healthier relationships to become better. Initially falling back once Shadow Weaver is back in the picture and then leaves. I love your balance between being compassionate and understanding on the mental toll both Adora and Catra individually, but not using that as excuses for unhealthy and toxic behaviors especially for Catra. As well as mentioning about how different victims having different reactions towards the ship and how their views and feelings about it are valid, and should be taken with consideration. Overall this video was highly well done and thought through, I can't wait to hear more about your Cassandra and Catra analysis video whenever you get to it, and I hope you have an amazing day/night. Thank you for an amazing video 🌟

[@thearomanticshipper4468]

Damn, that’s two people now who have asked for the Catra Cassandra video. I guess I have to do it!

[@elitecrewmate4559]

Honestly, the whole Catadora thing is really disgusting for me. What the show basically tells you is that you should ALWAYS forgive your abusers. Who were repeatedly trying to kill you and your loved ones, abusing you physically, mentally, emotionally, manipulating you just like your step-mom did, who you absolutely hate btw. And even if Adora ¿somehow? forgave her, I think we all forge a little, just a very tiny detailthat SHE IS A WAR CRIMINAL. She separated families, committed mass murders, destroyed countless of territories and a whole kingdom! You CANNOT forgive this, under any circumstance! Catra neither deserves Adoras, or anyones forgiveness really, nor the happy ending. This is what a kids show suppose to teach kids???

[@thearomanticshipper4468]

I think this is a pretty bad faith interpretation of the show. It does not have the message that you should always forgive your abusers. Shadow Weaver is not forgiven. Catra is forgiven because she actually genuinely tries to be better, and make up for her mistakes. I do agree that the show swept under the rug that Catra was a war criminal. There should have been much more of an acknowledgement of and focus on this and the consequences of it. But the idea that the message is that “War Criminals should get a happy ending” is a bad faith one. Furthermore, it’s not a problem that this series has exclusively, and is worse in other franchises (Steven Universe, Star Wars). A core theme of SATPOW is how abuse negatively affects victims’ ability to have relationships with others. It makes sense for Catra’s arc to conclude with her taking responsibility for her actions and finding redemption. If you think Catra should not have ended up with Adora in the end, then I can understand why, but I do not agree, and I explained why at the end of the video.

[@nathanpetrich7309]

@@thearomanticshipper4468 Thank you for saying that the show does not say to forgive abusers, especially Shadow Weaver. People often say that Catra abuses Adora, but it would be more accurate to say that SW used their lack of agency as children to create that dynamic. SW manipulated Catra, she was the source of the toxicity, and removing SW from the equation finally allows Catradora to heal. They understand each others' trauma better than anyone. My sisters and I were abused by our mother. Being left behind with an abuser can _feel_ like abandonment, no matter the intentions of the person in leaving. Thankfully, my sisters never left me on a deserted planet to die, not even when I asked them to. I don't actually care about Catradora as a romantic pairing, but as people overcoming abuse, they are not "toxic" or whatever that means. also consider Light Hope. At a time when Adora is vulnerable, LH tells her she must "let go" and socially isolate herself. She invades Catradora's memories to present images that stoke conflict between them, not unlike how SW would play them against each other. Eventually, Glimmer would go on to activate the Heart of Etheria with LH despite all her very supportive friends saying it was a bad idea, and season five even goes on to compare this with Catra pulling the lever.

[@Aster-Wingz]

People can change...

[@nicholasmocalis589]

​​@@thearomanticshipper4468The main motivation for Catra at the last part of season 5 during her redemption was to get into a relationship with Adora because Adora will take care of her in case Catra relapses or makes a mistake not to actually make the necessary effort to rebuild trust with the other characters or even save or fix the world she damaged which is necessary when you are writing a redemption story so your argument that Catra wants to be better is false. All Catra wants to do is to be in a relationship with Adora which is one of the very few things she actually cares about and are motives that do not heal her core social problems with others nor do they fix the problems she did previously. If you say those things don't matter than that goes against what a redemption story is supposed to mean and you simply want the ship to happen no matter if it makes any narrative sense or is even best for Adora and Catra since both of them being friends instead of lovers would at least acknowledge Adoras pain or trauma that Catra inflicted on her. The problem is that She ras themes of unconditional forgiveness are both extremely flawed and unhealthy since it does not adequately heal Catra because it avoids the necessary means to make up for bad decisions such as Catra rebuilding Etheria or building trust with the other characters which leads to ignoring the severity of Catras past actions and it manipulates the audience into believing that healing can only come through unconditional romance which don't heal Catras trust issues which are an individual problem created by shadow weaver. Catra due to her mental illness may believe at a later date she does not deserve that kind of romance in the first place as well. Catra needs serious therapy by learning to trust herself or others again, avoid violence unless absolutely necessary as well as getting a romantic relationship that does not lead to disagreement, tension, abandonment or violence which happens for the majority of the time when she is with Adora.

[@DishonorableMentions452]

​@@Aster-WingzSometimes changing in the pressnt isnt enough to fix the past...

[@Thschei]

This is probably one of the best catradora analysis videos I've ever watched. Thank you!

[@UltraVioletKnight]

short answer: Yes Long Answer: Oh my god yes we have 5 seasons of catra being toxic to adora

[@Br1annaFr33man]

I actually had a headcanon that Adora and Catra break up after having a nasty fight, and then get back together after spending a few months away from each other and reflecting on themselves more.

[@owlbert2020]

They would need a lot of counciling

[@_ImAnIntrovert_]

personally having been in a toxic relationship i don't really like catradora but i can now see why other people may ship it. i don't like he ship i still think Catra is an interesting character and although i think her redemption could have been better in Catra's defense it could have been a lot worse.

[@athenafollower]

It is, next question?

[@SoI_Badguy]

Great video (so far, only about halfway through), but "Noelle" Stevenson doesn't go by Noelle anymore. He goes by Nate now. Not tryinna insinuate anything, just a correction. Edit: just finished! Couldn't agree more with your analysis. Glad you pointed out the strange animosity glimmadora fans had... I saw that pop up a lot too, with the avid Catra haters.

[@thearomanticshipper4468]

Yeah, I only realized that about Stevenson in the process of editing.

[@StareachValcin]

I honestly didn't care about Adora being shipped with Catra. I would have been OK with Adora and Catra just being friends again after being enemies for so long. In the end, I am okay with them being a couple only because they did care about each other and it helps to improve their very complicated relationship. This is a good video essay about Adora and Catra's relationship. I really don't think their relationship is as toxic as people make it out to be. It really was up to Catra to repair her damaged relationship with Adora and I am glad that she did.

[@midnightlitroses]

I agree

[@Thebeezzkneezz.]

As some one who dealt with sibling abuse and DV... it IS toxic.. catra was toxic as a child and toxic as an adult. If I was adora I would've left her long ago. Don't forget catra tried isolating Adora even as a child. She hit Lani because she was talking to adora. "You're supposed to be my friend" then scratches and jumps on adoras chest. She psychically attacked and verbally abused adora in a 1 minute scene and in that flash back they are trying to get us to sympathize with.. CATRA. Not adora! They are wanting us to feel bad for the girl who we just saw(successfully) tried isolating her friend and abused her.. like that memory episode is just full of toxic catra... both the girls (and the other hord orphans) were abused by SW And Yes Catra was the scape goat child in this "family" but that dosnt give catra the excuse or right to take it out on Adora... (her practical sister, which also makes their relationship questionable) *edit not to mention catra is never happy for adoras achievements, and seems threatened when she succeeds. Real friends are happy for you no matter what. And this is all BEFORE they became "enemies"... 😬 And thennnn she desperately tries to drag Adora back to an abusive household

[@fstorms]

@@Thebeezzkneezz. total lie, Catra never even tries to retrieve Adora after her defection, Shadow weaver forces her too retrieve Adora. She literally covers for her when she leaves "you are going to bring her back" "i don't think so", she hides Shera's identity from SW, ep 3: "pathetic you're still trying to protect her" and her whole arc is literally trying to find independency outside of Adora. It's not as basic as abuser and victim when there's never been a power Imbalance.

[@fstorms]

@Mridoc You should honestly just watch the show

[@Thebeezzkneezz.]

@@fstorms how is that a total lie if you admitted that it did indeed happen? Where did I says catra tried to pull her back to the hord the whole show. No where because I didn't. I said she kept trying g to bring her back which did did multiple times until she gave up realizing she's always 2nd place. So aggressive no wonder you like catra xD

[@theshinypeliper8813]

The disgusting combination of a Yandere and a tsundere

[@roo1014]

Regarding the bs scene in the final episode of *Catra:* "I love you! I always have!" / *Adora:* "I love you too." Imagine if Adora instead gave the more understandable response "I don't feel the same way" - how do you think Catra would have reacted A.) Would she have respected Adora's wishes and boundaries, gotten sad for a little bit and then moved on B.) Would she have gotten enraged, yelled at Adora, highly likely physically struck her and then walk away feeling entitled to and justified in her hostility She incontrovertibly would've done the second one.

[@owlbert2020]

She would’ve slapped Adora and yelled at her that the world is ending because of Adora abandoning her. Then everything would explode and they would die

[@elisamangili4949]

Fr😭 then Adora would die and she would go up to the others and be like "Oh whatever, why do you care so much about Adora being dead anyways?" Or shit like that😭

[@emofangirl603]

This is probably one of the best Catradora essays ever. Well done!

[@christophercase6042]

Second comment, but yes, you should absolutely do a Cassandra Catra comparison video, 100%

[@thearomanticshipper4468]

I’ll screenshot this comment to remember! Just don’t expect it to come out any time soon.

[@Chalastor146]

Yes it is Toxic cuz Catra been a Jerk to Adora when they were Kids Like Catra literally jump on her stomach and slashes her face. Catra does abused Adora and try to killed her,Catra knew what Shadow waver was planning but she doesn't care and Adora didn't know what was Shadow waver was planning. I have heard rumors that Catra ruined the ship between Adora and Glimmer all I know Glimmer is Bi The reason why Catra is Toxic to Adora cuz Shadow waver been abusing Catra as a Kid

[@makar_on]

I think you're less mad at their relationship being toxic than you are mad that your ship got sunk and that's kinda lame.

[@Chalastor146]

@@makar_on wtf are you talking about? I don't even ship Adora and Glimmer,I see them as Sisters

[@Amityz72323]

@@Chalastor146 Did you even watch the video or did you just read the title and post your bullshit.

[@cottontuna1619]

@@makar_on Why do people always use this response, not everything is about shipping 😭

[@misfits9294]

I have a LOT of thoughts on Catra as a character and Catradora; I'm really glad you brought up the context of Catra's behavior, because that really is key. In my opinion: Yes, it was, but then it grew and changed. And while I understand why people wouldn't ship it, or think Catra's an irredeemable monster in this relationship, I disagree. As an abuse victim myself, I saw a lot of my own struggle in Catra; the struggle of unlearning patterns, all that rage and hate and pain, lashing out at others. Obviously it wasn't quite the same situation I don't think I was ever abusive myself but the same feelings in myself I saw in Catra as I followed her journey. I do understand that other abuse victims see their abuser in Catra, but I also want to point out how important her story was for me, and a lot of other people, too. Personally, I see genuine growth in s5, even if I wish they went more into it, and I never saw She-Ra's story as a "forgive your abusers" message but a "break the cycle of abuse" message. And here's the thing people forget in this...Adora's own arc of not letting people be terrible to her and not taking responsibility for everything is a large reason why I'm still on board with this ship. This doesn't diminish that arc, at all, Adora's punch for Catra in the portal is still a meaningful step, and in the episode where Entrapta removes Catra's chip, she makes it abundantly clear and tells it to Catra straight that if she continues these toxic patterns, she will ditch her. The ONLY reason why she reached out to Catra again is seeing evidence she might have changed, and a desire to not let her die to Horde Prime even if they are enemies. People forget this was Adora's choice, Catra didn't manipulate her into doing it and forgiving her, in fact, she directly thinks she DOESN'T deserve that forgiveness. Adora made her own choice on the matter. It is her own choice to reach back out to a toxic and even abusive friend that she understands the situation around what made them that way, and that shown signs of changing. Adora demonstrated her own agency in going back for Catra. She could have chosen not to, and that'd be just as valid. But again this is Adora's choice. And I think, after all the show had for her arc, we shouldn't forget that, and we should respect it. So, yes, it's a very complicated space around this ship, but, I think it's not toxic by the end, and that that's ok. I get why people don't ship it, but just because Adora gets with Catra doesn't mean they're supporting a "get back with your abusers" message there is way more nuance and context there.

[@cml6581]

I disagree that Catra grew and changed. I don’t consider her to be an irredeemable monster, in fact I have no issue with her being redeemed. My issue lies within how her redemption arc was executed. I understand that Catra is meant to be relatable to abuse victims who are struggling to unlearn patterns, deal with rage and pain, and stop lashing out at others. For those of us who relate to Catra though, we still have to understand that the fact that she herself was still abusive and she never changed her behavior, and that getting together with Adora the way she did was the worst thing for the both of them. I understand that Catra’s story is important for some people, but then it should be acknowledged that Catra as a character deserved better writing. I didn’t see genuine growth in season 5, and while you could argue that the message of She-Ra was “break the cycle of abuse” instead of “forgive your abusers,” the message was not executed well at all, as we never see the abuse cycle be broken. It would’ve at least been better if Catra and Adora did not hook up in the end, and perhaps if they became friends or if Catra went her own way like Cassandra in Tangled the Series did. Then you could argue that the abuse cycle has been broken since Catra will keep her distance and work on herself, perhaps meeting new people along the way. I don’t think people forget Adora’s arc of not letting people be terrible to her and not taking responsibility for everything. We actually are well aware of this arc is this is a major reason why many people are not on board with the ship. Catra continues to treat Adora poorly until the very end, and Adora just takes it, never learning to love herself or place her faith in her friends. I agree that Adora punching Catra in the portal was a meaningful step, but she took many steps back in season 5 when she started simping for Catra out of nowhere. Making it abundantly clear that she’ll leave if Catra continues this behavior was also a good step, but again she takes several more steps back when she allows Catra to treat her and everyone else awfully for the rest of the show. People don’t forget that it was Adora’s own choice to reach out to Catra. We know she has an overly forgiving nature, and that’s okay. Many protagonists from kids cartoons are like that. We also know that Catra doesn’t think she deserves that forgiveness, but her attitude for the rest of the series backtracks on that as she exudes sentiments of entitlement, ungratefulness, aggressiveness, and nastiness towards the people who saved her and took her in even after all she’s done to them. Adora choosing to reach out to Catra is fine and we respect it, but what loses us is when she starts randomly simping over her and then makes out with her. We don’t respect that since it’s absurdly tonally dissonant from what we’ve previously seen and even out of character. I think the ship is still toxic by the end since nothing was shown to prove otherwise. I understand that there’s more nuance and context to the ship than just “get back with your abusers” but the people who support it need to understand that there is also complexity in how abuse victims felt hurt and confused by the ending, as the message was executed very poorly and the show deserves to be criticized instead of blindly praised in bouts of toxic positivity.

[@jakedavidheilemann1208]

I think the toxicity and the resolution of said toxicity is really well addressed within the show itself, and how you read it shows a good read on your own self in general.

[@asiamaster3000]

Thank you for this video essay! It certainly helped put into order a lot of thoughts I've had that have been just floating around in my head. I also liked how you considered both sides of the argument. While I personally don't ship Catradora, I also very much accept that they were always going to be end game. For literally the same breakdown you explained about other ships falling apart otherwise hahah. I think conceptually I am onboard with Catradora because I always believe that redemption is possible for broken characters/people - but you hit the nail on the head with Zuko being one of the only strong examples of redemption being given enough time to be fleshed out and 'earned.' I am not against Catradora, I was more against the timing of it. But also understand it had to happen when it happened cos. Saving the world doesn't really wait. LOL

[@nicholasmocalis589]

The more correct term is shame is what Catra feels rather than guilt. Guilt means you have a sense that you want to be responsible for your own actions and want to consistently change for the better while shame simply means you feel bad immensely for what you are doing but you have no idea how to take responsibility properly which is Catras behavior. The reason her redemption to me doesn't work is that she doesn't really feel guilty for what she is doing otherwise she would be telling Adora I want to rebuild Etheria for what I have done or I would ask what it would take to make up for the bad decisions I made. She feels ashamed instead which makes sense since her sacrifice for Adora is in her way the only way to atone for her misdeeds or believes there is no other option and is understandable due to her trauma but even that aspect is not explored that much. Catra does not feel responsible because she believes Adora will take care of her so she does not have to take that external responsibility. To Catra why bother taking responsibility if Adora will be there to take care of me as a friend as well as pick up the tab if I make a mistake. Shame means you believe that your options are limited when it comes to what you can do in a situation so the only thing you can do is either do nothing or have somebody else take care of you. When you feel guilty you believe that there are options available to make up for your bad decisions which is what happened with Glimmer. The comics made by the fans handled it alot better because you see more of Catras self hatred and what is going on in her head and you see her actually feel guilty for what she has been doing. In the show she is still too focused on Adora and not on the other people she has hurt so she is not being with the best friend squad because she feels genuine guilt but because she wants to be in a relationship with Adora only that's it. Evidence is when she questions adoras martyr complex because Catra asking "what do you want Adora" is not only questioning Adoras unhealthy mindset but is also literally pressuring Adora to be in a relationship with her as if Catra is what Adora wanted all along which is not appropriate given the life and death/mind control situation that all the characters are in. Supporting evidence is when Catra cries and says that Adora chose shadow weaver and that Adora doesn't want her. Mara was better at giving Adora that advice since Mara gives Adora a choice to love someone individually. Catradora as a romantic relationship is and will always be a combination of reylos enemies to lovers, fifty shades of grey abuse + manipulation and twilights self victimization + forced romance. If they were friends it would be completely fine since it would at least acknowledge Adoras pain or trauma she suffered but a romantic relationship is a complete joke since narratively there is no reason for these two to romantically love each other unless Adoras pain or trauma is ignored from Catra. The only logical conclusion of them being together is having the same emotional and social development but if that were the case then scorpia would be in a romantic relationship with Catra. Tension conflict and disagreement can happen in a romantic relationship but for the majority of the time Catra and Adoras romance are those three factors that negatively impacts a relationship especially a romantic relationship. Them being friends would reduce that tension substantially since both characters would be allowed to grow on their own terms without having to constantly or unnecessarily fight over and over again. Catra also individually feels entitled to Adora because she wants it the way she wants it to be so you changing it to squandering doesn't change much. Adora through most of the series wanted Catra as a friend or at most a close friend. To paraphrase Atu shei films: Anti Catradora fan: What were Catras main motivations at the end of season 5. Catradora fan: To get into a relationship with Adora. Anti Catradora fan: Ok and. Catradora fan: And??? Anti Catradora fan: And to not make up for the mistakes that she made during the war because she has Adora to take care of her in case she does make a mistake. Catra in the background: Whatever as long as the stupid war is over I will have the relationship I wanted since childhood.

[@christophercase6042]

One thing I find ironic (and tone deaf) is a lot Catradora antis are spreading the 4Chan lie that ND and Molly were abusive because Catradora was supposedly based on their relationship. All the while they use Lumity to pit against Catradora, when Molly herself (who was supposedly the "Catra" of the relationship) writes for "The Owl House", and directly wrote "Enchanting Grom Fright", "Knock Knock Knockin on Hooty's Door", "Eclipse Lake". On top of that, ND and Dana are friends IRL, so it's very unlikely that they'd want their shows or ships pitted against eachother.

[@thearomanticshipper4468]

Wow, I didn’t realize people personally attacked ND and Molly. That’s pretty shitty.

[@christophercase6042]

@@thearomanticshipper4468 Feel free to use that info when you get to making that Cassandra video; IMO it'd really highlight the ignorance, and even the malice spread by antis.

[@catst9927]

I believe you are not condoning abuse simply by like something that has abuse in it. Obviously, if the work portrays the abuse as horrible then the work is not either. But even in case you do, as long as If you don't apply it to real life then no harm done. A way you can do that is just by listening to what people say about it. You can be told what you can and cannot apply to real life. A lot of stories have magic. However I know you don't believe or don't believe anymore that magic is real. I will say though that good representation is still important though, because you can't figure out what love looks like without a reference. But if you know the difference between fiction and reality, then your fine in my book. Note, I believe that this does have limits. it's not she-ra or fifty shades. I think you would be on the line, if you really really love n**is tanks. Like you are all over it. You are suspicious. You can like their tanks and not condone the h***cast. But with the people I have met who really like n**is tanks, they normally don't. I can't think of over the line example off the top of my head but I know that it's there.

[@GalaxiaStarsBOBLOX]

3:10 this image is so goofy 💀 Like wtf

[@starlight_studios550]

People don't always hurt you intentionally. I had issues with my parents and forgave them. Forgiveness is possible

[@kingjamization]

Catra destroyed reality and killed Queen Angela just because Adora relized the horde is evil

[@karin1111]

PLEASE make that video on catra vs cassandra I beg you

[@denise6240]

Watch She-Ra masters of the universe comic dub it is kind of a continuation of the show and I enjoyed it shame the the KZbinr who was posting it didn’t continue the series but it is pretty good and explores a whole new territory with the characters we know and love but I don’t want to give away to much and spoil it for people who might actually want to check that out

[@starlight_studios550]

48:45 THANK YOU SOMEONE FINALLY GETS IT

[@rejecthumanityconverttomon1891]

Honestly the entire catradora relationship is "abusive" falls off when most of the "evidence" is when these two girls are literally in a battlefield on the opposite side of war fighting each other because people will always bring up catra did this and fought her and this and that but forget that adora also attack catra in war and fought and target her too , there's a whole ep in season2 when she disappointed that scropia is in charge instead of catra cause she was expecting catra to be there. I find it even more surprising when people don't even realize that they both hurt each other in the first ep adora victim blames catra for shadow weaver abusing her which catra upset of course tells adora she is a people pleaser, most antis will ignore entirely what adora said and just sees catra reaction as "insulting her for no reason" which leads me to believe that most people just watch the show solely through adora lens and didn't try to put themselves in catra shoes ever which leads to misunderstanding of catra entire story if u look at her character through adora pov.Also people tend to ignore one of the most significant episode the promise which at the end is when catra breaks off her relationship with adora and sees her as a enemy from now on and adora also accept it for her false destiny as she ra meaning that anything from there on now is they view each other both as enemy's. Hell I wonder if those people interact with anything outside of children media cause two enemy's fighting each other doesn't equal abuse especially when there is no power Imbalance, especially in context when there both equal on the opposite side of war. The fact that people are still recycling these bad takes with zero reading compression of the story there reading is concerning enough for me, especially with a ship like catradora which is not rocket science to understand there conflict and the main issue of there relationship and what message the creator is trying send

[@cml6581]

This couldn’t be anymore false. Most of the “evidence” is not when these two are “literally in a battlefield on the opposite side of the war fighting each other.” The evidence is of Catra going out of her way to torment Adora while Adora only ever fought Catra out of self defense and her attacks are not even remotely comparable to the personally malicious ways Catra tortured and tried to murder her. Their fights were always one-sided and never equal. People ignore that even though the two considered each other enemies, the dynamic involved a blatant power imbalance. Adora never tried to hurt Catra nearly as much as Catra tried to hurt her. Catra didn’t just “attack” Adora- she hurt her in ways that were purposefully personal and malicious, and her actions are eerily reminiscent of how abusers treat their victims. Usually in enemies to lovers stories, both parties are at least on equal footing and are typically driven by an external factor rather than a personal vendetta. What Catra and Adora had was essentially Catra having power over Adora and torturing her while the latter was helpless and weak. Adora only tried to harm Catra out of self defense and held back when fighting her. Meanwhile, Catra never held back once and crossed Adora’s boundaries constantly in extremely creepy ways (such as drugging her and using her as a weapon). In addition, usually there’s the aspect of both characters being on different sides. Catra doesn’t even believe in the Horde’s cause. She’s well aware that what they’re doing is wrong but fights alongside them anyway due to a desire for power and revenge on Adora for “leaving.” Adora wanted her to come with her and hesitated to hurt her, while Catra willingly stayed with the evil Horde and just wanted to cause Adora suffering out of spite and personal anger. I find it surprising when people attempt to claim that they both “hurt each other” as if what Adora did is even remotely equivalent to the abuse Catra put her through. What Adora says to Catra in the first ep is not at all comparable to Catra physically and emotionally tormenting her and trying to kill her over and over out of pure spite and malice. Most people watched this show blatantly through Catra’s lens and don’t even attempt to understand Adora as a character but rather victim blame her. I seriously wonder if people coming to these conclusions have interacted with anything outside of children’s media since they clearly have no media literacy or critical thinking skills whatsoever. Adora and Catra are not two enemies fighting each other. Their story is of an abuser vs. her victim and a mere viewing of the show makes the inequality and power imbalance between the two obvious. The fact that people keep defending this show’s shitty writing and making such claims about Catra and Adora’s relationship is deeply concerning. It’s not rocket science to realize that the “conflict” and “message” catradora was trying to send completely failed on a writing standpoint and was an awful message to send to children on the creator’s part, especially impressionable ones who want representation.

[@rejecthumanityconverttomon1891]

@@cml6581 and u obviously just misinterpreted catra entire character and adora dumb ass go rewatch the fucking show talm bout her entire motivation was adora when there’s a whole episode going against that veiw point

[@rejecthumanityconverttomon1891]

@@cml6581 by that logic lots of big enemies rivalry we see in media is abusive

[@cml6581]

@@rejecthumanityconverttomon1891 It depends on how they’re executed. The trope isn’t inherently abusive, but it can be (which is fine) as long as the relationship eventually becomes healthy if it’s one an audience of children is meant to root for to save the day and feel represented by (like in She-Ra’s case).

[@Jataro_kemuri16426]

0:56 wow girls can be buff too I like me a strong woman 😒

[@oreootter]

Stevenson also worked on Tangled

[@Icy-be5vl]

13:48 Because she is afraid to admit that Adora is right. Shadow Weaver was always telling Catra that Adora is right. Adora is better. Catra was afraid of people calling her worse because Adora is right and she isn't. This is what army does to people.

[@Faerie_Kim]

I agree. Well said.

[@Faerie_Kim]

Also, interesting take: She-Ra has helped me feel again and have hope, passion and desire again after numbness left from soul crushing manipulation and emotional abuse. I can admit that I'm hot for women with Catra's character traits and that this is something I need to admit and deal with without giving up on ever feeling hope or passion again. Also Catra allows me to express that desire and still be safe. And I have hope that I might find what I need without being led into the darkness again. Catra after all is more like what I thought I was getting. The reality was always more cold, cruel and manipulative than the raw damaged emotion of Catra. Catra just needs a big hug really.

[@Icy-be5vl]

33:50 But this is not even Catra. She is only in Adora's head. Adora is the only one sees Catra that way because this isn't Catra

[@thearomanticshipper4468]

Finally! I was beginning to think KZbin would never let me air this!

[@StareachValcin]

A slight correction to your video. When Adora went to rescue Glimmer from Horde prime, she clearly wasn't aware that Catra was there too.

[@thearomanticshipper4468]

@@StareachValcin I know she wasn’t. What I said was that Adorable was not concerned about Catra. She didn’t know where she was and never thought to look for her.

[@StareachValcin]

@@thearomanticshipper4468 actually you heavily implied that Adora wouldn't try to save Catra as if she knew that Catra was with Glimmer. That was the main point that I was trying to correct. You are right that Adora wouldn't think to look for Catra at that point in the story.

[@thearomanticshipper4468]

@@StareachValcin I still maintain Adora wouldn’t have gone out of her way to save Catra from Prime. She hesitated doing it even after Catra saved Glimmer.

[@StareachValcin]

@@thearomanticshipper4468 I agree that at that point in the story, Adora wouldn't be likely to go rescue Catra if she knew she was with Horde prime, but she would be affected by it. Just look at how surprised Adora was when she learned that Catra was with Glimmer, and how affected she was after Catra apologized for everything. Even when Adora was rightfully suppressing her feelings for Catra, her feelings couldn't help but come out when Catra was in danger, especially when she helped save Glimmer and apologized, giving Adora hope that there was still good in Catra.

[@nicepeeva1048]

No. It's not toxic .

[@yennazvengerbergu5742]

great video, lots of good points!

[@marcosortega3350]

46:53 You slipped up!

[@joleedavis9933]

Okay but then fighting isn’t Catra abusing Adora. It’s them being enemies on the other sides of the war. If Catra fighting Adora is abusive, so is Adora fighting Catra. And the time she scratched Adora in the horde is when they were six. This review is still missing a bunch of context and twisting things against Catra

[@joleedavis9933]

Also “Catra didn’t suffer enough” huh??? She literally was brainwashed, stripped of her autonomy and sense of self and killed. How much more do you want her to suffer? And Angelica chose to sacrifice herself. It’s not. Catras fault. Not everything is Catras fault

[@sakinahmuhamamd7791]

@@joleedavis9933 she wouldn't have had to make that sacrifice if CATRA did not rip a fucking hole in the universe and caused everything to like collapse into itself\self destruct.

[@elisamangili4949]

​@@joleedavis9933Still, they were best friends, yet Catra didn't think twice about trying to destroy the universe, abuse and kidnap Adora and her friends multiple times or blame Adora for everything just because Adora had a different opinion from her. Also Catra verbally abuses Adora even when they go back to being friends and her ways never really change.

[@doratheshade]

​@elisamangili4949 I'll repeat what I read once here. This show is about an obsessive Yandere almost killing everyone and getting her way at the end. I really hope Adora doesn't think on having friends because Catra clearly didn't learn anything

[@joleedavis9933]

@@doratheshade tell me you’re a moron with no media literacy without telling me

[@Icy-be5vl]

Ellie and Dina from the last of us 2 are toxic and evil! Not Adora and Catra who were raised in the army and doesn't know different life than fight. Catra was raised in the army and she was abused. Her behavior is understable compared to Ellie from the last of us 2 who had love. Support and she still became psychopath so who is truly toxic here? And I compare Catra and Ellie because they have similar character but Catra's behavior is understable. The only reason why Adora din't ended like Catra is because she wasn't abused like Catra was and also because she met Glimmer and Bow. If someone is truly evil here. It's Shadow Weaver!

[@cherrycola542]

TLDR?