Is Classical Music Elitist? (Response to TwoSetViolin's video on elitism in classical music)

Рет қаралды 2,935

3 жыл бұрын

I watched TwoSetViolin's video recently talking about Elitism in Classical Music which you can find here:
• Our Opinion on Elitism...
It's a fun and relatable video, and it really got me thinking about this topic that has been on my mind off and on for most of my musical life. As I surfed around for other videos and articles on this topic, I also found this excellently researched video from the new channel "Cult of Musicology." I highly recommend it:
• The Elitism of Classic...
This video is necessarily incomplete! I'm sure I am only scratching the surface of this topic, so please do leave comments and let me know what I missed and what I should address in future followups on this topic.

Пікірлер: 21

@josephl3241 Ай бұрын

Wow, I’m very happy I stumbled upon this video and really appreciate your perspective - especially your comparison to Olympic sports and your point about complexity not necessarily equating to ‘value’. The topic of classical music in the context of the wider world needs to be addressed more. I feel it’s in its own microcosm(s) sadly… and I wonder if there are still some anti-popularist sentiments that prevent leaders in the field from breaking out of these ‘silos’ if you will. But it’s tricky to retain identity and reach others… playing only Debussy’s piano works or other popular pieces also dilutes what else is on offer. I believe the view of classical music being ‘elitist’ is held here in the UK as well. Sadly, there are examples of this… my dad use to book ensembles at a large concert hall in my city. The hall hosted all kinds of music.. and he said that the serving staff were most nervous and unhappy when the classical concerts took place due to comments they overheard. ‘Don’t mind them they won’t understand it anyway’ for example. Of course this is a minority but it is there. Hopefully one day people will be able to roll their eyes at those comments and enjoy the music for its own sake. Still, if classist (not just elitist) people are in positions of power, then it begs the question of whether the music is being performed and promoted for its own sake.

@Ayo.Ajisafe 2 жыл бұрын

Despite playing no major part in my household as a child I never had any difficulty appreciating classical music. But its funny that you brought up Uylesis. I picked it up 10 years ago after seeing it on a list of books to read before you die. I put it down pretty quickly. I felt like I was reading a writer who had no intention of connecting with the reader. A short while after I picked up a friends copy of Heart of Darkeness by J Conrad. I couldn't make it through 2 pages. I started reading Orwell instead and flew through 1984. I made myself a promise that no matter what critics said about a book I would never forced myself to read a book that didn't give me pleasure. And for me it wasn't length or even vocabulary that put me off because I had no problems getting through Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky or Frankenstein (which isn't long but does use alot of unfamiliar words) it was just with Joyce I couldn't connect with him.

@TheIndependentPianist 2 жыл бұрын

Well put. I totally sympathize with the Joyce situation. It took me 3 tries to make it through, and it was only when I read the annotated version here: www.joyceproject.com/ that I really liked the book. There were just so many references that were lost on an American reader born in the late 20th century, that would have been obvious to an Irish reader of the early 20th. Once I read the annotated version, I became really fascinated by the writing, and now I think it is really beautiful and funny-once you know what is going on! Certainly not the most approachable thing though.

@Ayo.Ajisafe 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheIndependentPianist I'll check out the annotated version. Basically, when I picked it up I was making an effort to get back into reading after losing the habit so I think I definitely had less patience. I fell in love with Frankenstein during this period. Fond memories.

@ChopinIsMyBestFriend 3 жыл бұрын

i’m only 5 minutes in but your comment about music education made me think how poor it is. in music classes they never once introduced me to anything i like. i was in choir. thought the music was awful. never once was i shown chopin or liszt. i can’t recollect even hearing beethoven mozart or bach. i remember african drums, the sound of music, hot cross buns, gloria, just simple stuff. i could never imagine a teacher showing a class of young kids chopin’s heroic polonaise. that needs to change. i was just fortunate enough to search it out eventually for myself at a later time than i wish i would’ve started playing piano. also if youtube never existed i would’ve never found what i love.

@TheIndependentPianist 3 жыл бұрын

Wow, that is a very powerful story. I'm very glad you did eventually find this music, but you are totally right, something definitely needs to be done to address this lack of breadth in the education system. It is encouraging that people like yourself, who are self-motivated, can make use of current advancements to really expand their horizons. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

@shelleybinkley4266 3 жыл бұрын

So... the perception of classical music as "elitist" seems to be a particularly American thing. I haven't traveled in Asia, but having traveled in Europe, classical music and art in general seem to be more integrated into the social fabric and culture. Audiences, particularly at opera, which is what I attended most, can be quite boistrous, especially in outdoor settings. They clapped after solos, sometimes drowning out the next part of the piece. I also noticed audience members of all ages present. What do you think? Is classical music perceived as "elitist" in non-American cultures? There's an unfortunate absence of music education here in the early years: preschool-kindegarten, up to about 4th grade. So complex music can seem unapproachable to those who don't grow up with it. 60s-80s rock-n-roll was the soundtrack to my early existence, but I always enjoyed classical music and wanted to learn to play piano. It was out of reach financially. I got a job at 14 and bought my own guitar and some guitar lessons, learned to pick out a few Bach short pieces along with some Beatles songs. I didn't seriously come to classical music until well into adulthood when, finally earning decent income, bought myself a 104-yr old upright Steinway. That's when I really began to delve into classical music, teaching myself to play piano. So there's nothing wrong with rock and roll but 4:4 time and repetitive chord progressions get pretty monotonous after a while. I can't tolerate much pop music these days. And gone are the lyricists like Bob Dylan, Joni Mitchell, and Nick Drake. (I apologize if that seems "snobby".) As I played more classical music I listened to more and more complicated pieces. I find classical and jazz not only extremely relaxing and relieving of anxiety, but also allowing access to a wide range of thought and emotion. Your book analogy is perfect. Now, I always have classical and jazz on in the background, it's the sound track to my life. But I also really enjoy sitting at an orchestral concert, opera, or jazz performance and immersing in the full range of emotional and intellectual experience tapped by live performance of more complex works. There's nothing so uplifting as a live performance. So after this long-winded circuitous prelude, here's my point: I wish I had easier access to classical and jazz music as a kid in school. I think it should be part of the American school curriculum beginning in preschool. For all kids, not just kids who live in wealthy neighborhoods. I think it would make us all more empathic and able to access a richer range of ourselves and each other. Plus I think our kids would be smarter. There is a certain mathematical aspect to music. If "muscles" aren't worked they won't develop. And, rather than being seen as "elitist" it would be more integrated into the American psyche. It's unfortunate that the anti-intellectualism of America has resulted in a disdain for the higher aspects of human capacity. I hope channels such as yours will encourage more young people to appreciate and learn classical music, and again make a plug for you to consider developing a curriculum for young kids, even just some videos you could farm out to the local public schools. Detroit and MI are some of the major music hubs in this country. Music has a larger role in public education here than in many other states. I feel sad for the student you mentioned who just wanted "simple songs with words". Perhaps s/he would come to a greater appreciation and expansion of themselves had they had exposure to more classical and jazz music as a child. I hope your course gave him/her pause to re-think it. Thanks again for another wonderful and thought-provoking video.

@TheIndependentPianist 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the wonderful comment. You hit on some very interesting points. It certainly seems to be the case that classical music is much more of an integral part of "normal" life (along with all of the arts) in European cultures than in the U.S. And of course if you go to Asia, to places like China... Well, western classical music is practically a craze over there! They can get remarkably excited over the concert experience, and the demographic of the audiences is often times remarkably younger than in other places-not that I have anything against older audience members myself! Your points about the need for more freely available music education from the youngest ages, also brings up another point which I think is often overlooked-that music of subtle construction seems to encourage introspection and empathy. I can't really speak to this scientifically, but it does make sense when I look at my own experiences with music, musicians and audiences. This, along with the power of much of this music to relieve anxiety and calm nerves is a powerful aspect which shouldn't be ignored, and I think it can be a large part of why we want music in our lives in the first place. It is certainly a major reason why I have wanted it in my life since I was quite young! Anyway, thank you again for watching and for your comment.

@Remour Ай бұрын

Classical and jazz music isn’t the only form of “complicated” or “intellectual” music. Other genres can achieve those heights in their own ways.

@leonhayes188 9 ай бұрын

Only if you want it to be

@shelleybinkley4266 3 жыл бұрын

Side note: Millions of people appreciate classical music without realizing it. What would Star Wars' Darth Vader be without the John Williams' soundtrack? An old man with an ill-fitting CPAP device.

@alanrobertson9790 3 ай бұрын

Generally the people who say classical music is elitist don't like classical music, don't like elites or the people who like classical music. Allowing noise at concerts would not be an improvement.

@SMCwasTaken Ай бұрын

Their tastes are just bad because all they listen is recorded ADHD stimming sounds