IS CONSTANTIN VALDOR A PRIMARCH? COULD HE DEFEAT ONE IN COMBAT?

[@willkuehler8918]

I always figured Valdor was the Custodian version of Sigismund. He’s just so good he can beat things he shouldn’t have a chance against.

[@ShadowknightEX]

Which to be fair, isn’t much.

[@OGSpaceMarine]

Abbadon: lol 😂

[@Or_Am_I_Alpharius]

@@OGSpaceMarine somebody has to have plot armor

[@Boywonder543]

Brooo valdor never beated Horus in a duel it was a misinformation in the wiki and everybody believed it

[@exspiravit6920]

@@saipranavpalla1467 Not quite. The gap between Primarch and Custodes isn't like a Custodes to an Astartes. A Primrarch will make quicker work of a Custodes than an avg Custodes will of an avg Astartes.

[@colthedrummer]

Interesting. Remember that Custodes always let their opponent live longer so they can learn everything they can about their fighting style, just in case another of their kind turns up

[@skeyedrake5929]

True. But not with uninvited guests looking for a selfy with the big e

[@averyangrycrow4936]

@@skeyedrake5929 what if I were to ask very nicely?

[@jpmetroidkiller96]

I’m not sure but I think that’s only one specific Custodes that does that.

[@SpiritStoneWarrior94-yx3gs]

​@@jpmetroidkiller96 Yeah that was only Ra Endymion, the Custodes who had Drachnyen impaled in him by the Emperor during the War in the Webway. Not all Custodes did that, as far as we know it was only Ra who would take 3 strikes against an opponent to ensure he figured out how the enemy fought so he could figure out the best way to 💀 them.

[@silversurfer8818]

Constantin may have the blueprint for the Primarch physiology, without any warp shenanigans: "Russ drew up to Valdor then. He was a little shorter, much broader, his armour stained and smeared where Valdors was pristine" (Heralds of the siege, P:331)

[@Max-zr7hr]

I was just thinking the same thing. He's physically and mentally probably on primarch level but he doesn't have that primarch plot armor oops I mean aura/warp magic that makes them demi god tier.

[@ironduke5058]

Warp Spaghetti, we call it Warp Spaghetti and the Primarchs are filled to the brim with it. It's why they're so powerful. Custodians don't and it's about the only thing that separates them

[@josephcoon5809]

@@ironduke5058 Sounds like a PRIME candidate to defend the Webway against warp entities as well as being immune to Warp corruption.

[@Va11idus]

I'm 90% sure that Valdor beat Dorn in a spar once, and in many sessions after, Dorn never lost. Valdor was amazed even in the first fight what a young primarch was capable of and what a fearsome weapon they will grow into with experience.

[@jamesespinosa690]

@@Max-zr7hr While he lacks the warp essence of the primarchs. That's replaced with the blessing and connection of The Emperor.

[@scott.ebusiness]

I think Constantin Valdor was the last remaining descendant of the men of gold, the perfect humans, perfected by genetic engineering just before the dark age of technology. That’s why the emperor went to such an effort to find him. Now take the perfect human and give him the the Custodies treatment and you get the greatest human warrior. More perfect than even other custodies who are already pretty much the pinnacle of humanity

[@scott.ebusiness]

Also the idea that Valdor was made differently or had abit extra effort out in doesn’t explain why the Emperor moved mountains and armies to secure him. There must be something especial about Valdor otherwise you could make a couple of Valdors, even 3 and have a Triumvirate

[@BloodyArchangelus]

Btw it is a good idea. Whole concept of custodes looks... old... From ancient golden times, when mankind was young and not cursed by warp..

[@NoName-lo9ym]

Maybe that's what all Custodes really are? Based on the gene template of the Men of Gold. They pre-date the Astartes which were made from scratch, and were pre-dated by imperfect Thunder Warriors. How did the Emperor get the template to make something as perfect as a Custodes? An ancient gene template STC?

[@scott.ebusiness]

@@NoName-lo9ym maybe but as the custodes are made to be loyal to the emperor I don't think they are men of gold but could definitely be based off them regarding their intelligence, longevity and how cultured they are. I don't think the men of gold were an STC but they helped make the STC's and yeah the emperor could have based the custodes of them. I think the big difference is (as far as I know) the Custodes couldn't have children but maybe the men of gold could.

[@Va11idus]

@@NoName-lo9ym correct me if I'm wrong, but custodes were made before thunder warriors.

[@MrJara1018]

Yes he can match intelligence, he prolly doesn’t have hang ups so many primarchs had. Big E had a great love for Valdor no doubt.

[@silversurfer8818]

I think he perceived him as important, maybe even paramount for his many tasks still unbeknownst to us rather than love - Diocletian Coros, another custodes postulated that their creation and purpose was solely to hold back the forces in the webway. What could Valdors prime purpose be? one could ask.

[@stephennorako1807]

prob·a·bly adverb almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell. "she would probably never see him again"

[@unspeakablemind260]

Ettore Ewen is our emphra.

[@anonymousguy720]

The emperor never loved any of his creations, he viewed them as tools to be used not sons.

[@MrJara1018]

@@stephennorako1807 informal slang

[@tedhodge4830]

My understanding is that the Custodes are all each individually created, similar to a Primarch, but without the "special sauce" (e.g. trip to the warp) that went into the Primarch process. So they are vastly beyond Space Marines which are just simply genetically enhanced warriors with geneseed from their respective Primarchs. And similar to Primarchs in the sense that they are individually created and not dependent on geneseed. In terms of abilities, they are generally less than. Valdor is written as an exceptionally capable Custodes, similar to a Chapter Master of a Space Marine chapter being an exceptional Astartes. The biggest difference is that the Primarchs were designed and intended to sire their respective Legions, whereas a Custodes is their own unique warrior, considered insufficient to sire their own Legion but exceptional enough in their own right to be the Emperor's personal bodyguards. Because they do not originate a Legion or produce geneseed, I don't think they're literally Primarchs, but they are all more similar to Primarchs than Astartes.

[@GuthanSlayer]

custodes are more perfect space marines id say than primarchs, they arent all individually made in the same way that the primarchs were made, they are more like mass produced super cars and primarchs are one of a kind. No one can make a primarch any more prob not even the emperor unsure why. But they can still make custodes unsure if that makes sense. Primarchs werent really meant to sire their legions unsure where u got that from, they were meant to lead a legion to be basically mini emperors.

[@augustuslunasol10thapostle]

@@GuthanSlayer bile would like to hit you over the head with his many cloned primarchs

[@stevensanders6696]

@@GuthanSlayer the emperor himself describes the custodes as individual creations, never to be repeated. "Each one of you is unique, a work of art never to be repeated. I am miserly with your lives, where I would spend so many others without a thought" They aren't mass produced by any means. Each of the 10,000 was made individually for exactly what the Emperor wanted of them, his distinct vision for that individual.

[@neiloerlemans1029]

I fairly certain that the custodes had their own level of warpfuckery in their creation, given that there a great length of time talked about in their creation in one of the books somewhere. I'll have to look.

[@Damien_N]

@@GuthanSlayer i remember from “The First Heretic”, the word bearers observing their Custodes watchers in battle - to paraphrase - “they move and fight like us, but they don’t fight together, they fight as individuals. And that is their weakness”

[@Scott90314]

No Alpharius fought him to a standstill without power armor, he did beat Horus during a sparring match, but as that was sparring you know. I have dabbled into the idea that Valdor may be some type of demi-primarch to the custodes, but think the Zeroth or proto primarch.

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

Tbf sparring is still experience and I don't find it hard to say being able to spar with a top tier primarch makes him a match for some of the weaker ones.

[@noneofyourbusiness2437]

The zeroth or proto-primarch was the Angel. And it was a lot more powerful and a lot more unstable than the actual Primarchs. Killed an entire planet of people by itself in one night because it thought that they were unworthy of the Emperor's love.

[@NANA-lq5md]

@Void where is this fight at.

[@andymatheson82]

@Void exactly, plus its mentioned a few times that the custodians like to match an opponents level for the first few strikes of the engagement to better understand their foes before they kill them

[@rankcolour8780]

This sparring thing never happened, it's stuff people want to believe that wound up falsely on a couple of wikis. Probably stemmed from some old lore saying Horus trained the other primarchs and was only beaten in duels by Sanguinias, Russ and another primarch that someone misremembered.

[@michasalamon8315]

In terms of powers and intelligence? Yes. However, in he matter of soul stuff, no. What makes Primarchs special is their souls and their powers. When making primarchs, Emps basically made his own version of greater deamons/minor warp entities. They are independent beings, while Custodes are basically Emp’s, well, deamons. Custodians are unable to rebel against Emperor, just the same way lesser demons are unable to rebel against their gods, but greater deamons like Skarbrand have the power and free will to rebel becuase they got enought warp juice to do it. Simple as.

[@BloodyArchangelus]

Custodians are not his demons lol. They are the pinnacle of human will. They are loyal not because of the warp, but by choice. They share the DREAM. Only Legion of the damned+ Celestine and Primarchs have some warp shenaningas.

[@michasalamon8315]

@@BloodyArchangelus custodians are pinnacle of humanity in the biological way, but they are literally programed to do everything Emps wants toc they are unable to do otherwise. They are literally the extension of his will, just like deamon are the extensions of their gods will. Unless we assume that the ultimate form of evolution humanity of W40k can achieve is becoming half automatons, the custodians are indeed the future of mankind’s race. I mean, seriously, they were unable to see that not everything Emps did was a good idea. And even when he got turned into a vegetable slowly rotting on a golden toilet, they were like „ It must be part of his plan.” Bro. Seriously. How can you have a supercomputer fir a brain and be so dumb at the same time?

[@BloodyArchangelus]

@@michasalamon8315 I would recall you, that 2 edition ago, custodes was black watchers of the wall and do nothing in shame. You can not PROGRAMM people not using magic in universe. Emperor would just programm lords of terra for absolute obedience... you speaking kek stuff. and you sounds like a heretic, so stfu

[@blazingfire90034]

@@michasalamon8315 what? They questioned him all the time they were his advisors and his personal court. He got rid of his humanity and his emotions for the sake of his goal of conquest. We could can probably assume he just ignored some of their advice past a point.

[@JessePatrick-zc8ng]

@@blazingfire90034 he actually implanted human lore and whatnot into them so he would have someone to talk too about old human shit. Read valdor. He’s incapable of not obeying the emperor.

[@Bananaskin101]

I got the impression Valdor could have beaten Alpharius but was testing and evaluating his quarry, given hiow close he got to BigE.

[@vidarye5859]

Same

[@TamamoRespecter]

I feel like Alpharius' secretive nature tends to make people underestimate him both in and out universe. He has so few fights, but one of them is going toe to toe with Dorn, and having a pretty good showing.

[@manjugangwar7245]

He also lies too so yaaaa

[@michaelzappacosta9529]

A pretty good showing of the inside of his skull lol

[@jamesespinosa690]

Yeh, unfortunately that book was a real shame. I wish they didn't have one of the twins killed. It really makes no sense to me that they would fight one of their brother primarchs 1 on 1. They should be smart enough to know that's not a fight they can win. Only Lorgar is weak enough to consider taking on in a fight. And that's assuming he doesn't pop his psychic powers and go chaos super Saiyan during the fight. Which is unlikely considering his plot armour.

[@CloudSephiroth]

Valdor is the Emperor’s favorite son. He was chillin with the Big E and Malcador - the Big E’s BFF - for the longest. Makes sense that Valdor is Primarch of the Golden Legion

[@christianhellicar3104]

Would Valdor come out on top? We already know the answer, he did. Success isn't only measured in combat prowess, & although a great warrior, that wasn't his purpose. The Primarch's were built to lead the Space Marines & conquor the galaxy. Valdor was meant for greater challenges. The fact that his reputation remains is evidence that he was the best of all the Emperor's warriors.

[@TheBlastmeister]

I always just thought that the Lost Primarchs were just Valdor and Omegon. I'm sticking with that belief until they reveal the Lost Primarchs.

[@karldergrosse-333]

I quite like this theory

[@rob3617]

Only problem is in Dark Imperium RG said there were 20 primarchs. 9 loyal, 9 traitors and 2 that failed. I REALLY wish they would tease some more lost primarch lore

[@silversurfer8818]

Constantin predates the primarchs, he was there during their creation

[@renegado8588]

@@rob3617 not 2 that fail, the second legion primarch lost The eleventh primarch dead. Different things.

[@cuban-being3087]

Pretty sure Leman murdered the other two

[@yourapeeinguy8263]

No hes not a primarch as we know them, I always thought maybe he was an actual grandson or descendant of the emperor which is why the Emperor went so out of his way to get him. He might have been some kind of test run or something. BUT what we do know is he is more than "just a custodes" and that alone is huge. I do think he could probably beat Lorgar and maybe Alpharius.

[@PeachDragon_]

It's stated that he would've become humanity's best even if he was never enhanced, that's honestly insanity.

[@Tattoosbykenneth]

I think valdor could have been the emperor’s first son. His first naturally born son. So he wasn’t designed from the beginning. Only upgraded once he was found.

[@Max-zr7hr]

I personally like this idea and it would explain a lot about why the emperor sought him out so hard

[@muzanjackson8827]

The emperor has actual natural children and he doesn't know they exist. Also, valdor was found in the 30,000s I think since he snatched baby valdor at the beginning of unification

[@MalleusDaemonum]

Yeah... Whereas the Emperor has been alive since 8000 BCE. Or thereabouts. I'm pretty sure he would've gone through the experience of fatherhood sometime in his early life. It not staying with a woman to try to raise a normal family, then definitely at least having fathered a kid or two before moving on.. So, yeah. He's probably exactly what we're told he is, one of the emperor's earliest creations? :)

[@JonyTony2018]

@@muzanjackson8827 The Sensei aren’t canon anymore. However, Valdor being a reintroduction of this idea would be great.

[@Tyrazaphael]

​@@muzanjackson8827 The Horus Heresy happens in 31k. Valdor already helped the Emperor build nearly the entire Imperium before then.

[@nikot.9920]

Though I am a space wolf through and through, Valdor along with Sanguinius are 2 characters in the Imperium I highly respect. Valdor has his flaws, but he means business and commands respect from all without needing to enforce it. Does he command the same authority as a primarch, yes. Is he one, no. He's a different creation of the Emperor entirely. For me this is what I see him as and why he has my upmost respect. FOR THE RUSS! 🐺🤘

[@aloaloings5596]

space furries get lost

[@davidallamericananarchist9220]

@@aloaloings5596 are you a Dark Angels fan by any chance?..

[@aloaloings5596]

@@davidallamericananarchist9220unfortunately i am filthy xeno scum. deldar and nids

[@fambofambo7940]

***makes sense as to why Malchador would force choke Horus before speaking his name. Valdor has early memories of the emp speaking to him. The emp reprogrammed and made him forget his origin. Or he could be the PRIME of the Custodes

[@freerichie25]

Could be the 2nd. It was said that the primarch of the 2nd was a serious and hardcore dude

[@SteelRealm]

Imagine being the Emperor, and using the totality of your millenia of talent, skill, learning and psychic warp powers to create the primarchs. Going so far as to make deals with the gods of chaos. And at the same time, finding out that a human child was born into existence that was just a smidge less amazing then your 20 artificial god clones. You'd want to see it and possess it. Valdor is the pinnacle of human physiology, and the custodes are very likely picked from candidates that most closely resemble him in whatever genetic traits are necessary.

[@saltyshackles5227]

Yes or biological son of the Big E. If you know what happens during the Unification of Terra then you know Big E values Big V...ALOT.

[@insertedgynamehere]

My theory about that is that he saw valdor would do something very important in the future.

[@TheRealCartman1]

I've always thought of Valdor as the ultimate example of humanity, a 1 in a trillion chance of many generations of genetics coming together naturally to produce the perfect human which gave the Emperor the idea to create his own versions of perfection, the Primarchs. No idea how this would fit in with the timeline but it's my head cannon.

[@rnrbishop]

As i understand, the Primarchs are built from scratch with assistance of warp voodoo, the custodes are upgraded humans but with the most painstaking genetic upgrades possible on a living being. Compared to space marines who are entirely normal humans with a modular upgrade kit applied.

[@rumraket38]

But, what REALLY happened? Did Alpharius ever actually fight Valdor? Did he really not wear power armor? Do we take Alpharius at his word on ANY subject? These questions need to be settled. I must emphasize, we are told a story about Alpharius, by Alpharius. What do we really know?

[@danielsmith762]

I feel like Alpharius should be read "Alpharius".

[@dac314]

He could probably beat a decent handful of them in sparing contests, Dorn or Guilliman or Lorgar, but I really think it's a matter of intent. If the Primarchs wanted to kill him, they likely could. And if Valdor wanted to slay them, he would likely struggle.

[@QenaitheCustodianGuard]

I think valdor let alone any single custodes would bite of way more than they could chew if they picked a fight with a primarch, custodes are effective killers of basically anything below primarch-level. But the primarchs are simply too fucking op, the emperor made the custodes to kill space marines (speculation by a custodian) to bad he did not make a few super custodians to deal with his entitled "sons" aswell.

[@QenaitheCustodianGuard]

@Void that's my standpoint aswell, I love the custodians and play them on the tabletop, but the primsrchs were made to be on another level and they very much are.

[@zingercheese3454]

He would not stand a chance against Dorn. Dorn killed Omegon and defeated Fulgrim. Absolutely no way.

[@Va11idus]

I'm pretty sure he sparred with Dorn once early, remarking on how incredible it was that he was so strong despite being so young, and that he did best Dorn the first time, but would never replicate that victory, despite many other sessions.

[@higharchbishopofteatasting6217]

I don't think Valdor would win a 1v1. But him and a few others? I think that's a much closer match.

[@jkee9760]

Well, alpharius easily would have s studied valdor before he decided to attack. So he learned his movements and training

[@AlphariusOne-k5e]

In the new Alpharius book, I would say Valdor outmatches Alpharius when the war games are being played out.

[@ruinerblodsinn6648]

It’s weird to say this, but I never thought about CV could be a Primarch. Great idea.

[@Rheinguard]

If Khaldor Drago can, I believe in Valdor's skills as well. As to whether he is a Primarch, I think not.

[@kubapiwowarczyk599]

Ward doesn't write this though.

[@askel-1]

It would make sense the Emperor would have the foresight to place a hidden primarch as a secret safeguard.

[@FormerGovernmentHuman]

If certain theories are to be believed then that was Omegon(Alpharius) who has the same powers as Big E. That is alot to unpack for what it could mean in the fight and the lore at large. Valdor could make perfect precision strike but if his target isn’t actually what he sees then he may never land a blow. Alpharius claims to be unarmored but he also says it’s all a lie, and has the ability to make people see what he wants them to see. He was the first primarch found well before Horus and trained by Malcador and the Emperor, supposedly. Omegon (real Alpharius) could potentially be second only to the emperor but will never allow people to see his divinity or unlimited power.

[@arbeione]

The only Primarch I think Valdor could beat is Lorgar.I think the others would be too much for him. Great video, definitely gets you thinking about the possibilities.

[@keingdougie24]

I think he’s on the level of a primarch, but he’s not a primarch. His physiology is likely as different to a primarch as a custodes is different from an Astartes. To me, Custodians are just humans at the apex of our natural physical evolution. A good example of this can be found in Issac Amisovs “The final question” Where as space marines and Primarchs have organs of cybernetic means

[@randomcenturion7264]

Could he beat some Primarchs? Probably. However, I'd say there are at least five that could either fight him to a close match or outright kill him.

[@lord_haven1114]

There’s no way. Not if it were a fair fight. There’s only 18 of them for a reason, and 10k custodes. Primarchs (even the weakest one) is levels above the best custodes in every way. They were always supposed to be the tippy top and so everything they do impacts that much more. Just like an astartes shouldn’t be able to defeat a custodes 1v1. It would just lessen everything that makes the custodes special.

[@glitchlife4639]

I think Valdor is one of the 4 original primarchs, the protoprimachs. I also harbor suspicions that he might be some form of blank or Pariah that has control over his ability.

[@thashadowspawn]

I am happy to see my friend brotha David's artwork in your videos!

[@truffelnootje]

“Constantine is a primarch” Rogal Dorn: it is not gringe father, it is keg!

[@IdioticSynergy]

No it is not Gringe at all.

[@alexanderm8880]

I personally think Valdor is the only non-psycher biological son of the Emperor, possibly used as the template for future Custodes. In that sense, he could be called the Primarch of the Custodes.

[@balintmiklosy9138]

Well, the emperor had many biological children, collectively refered to as the sensei. They might have became canon though, I'm honestly not sure.

[@alexanderm8880]

@@balintmiklosy9138 I was aware of the sensei but I thought they were all psychers on some level?

[@balintmiklosy9138]

@@alexanderm8880 I'd be surprised if any biological child of the Emperor was non psychic to be fair. And yes, the sensei all were psykers.

[@alexanderm8880]

@@balintmiklosy9138 What if the mother was a blank? :p

[@Chief_Keith]

Think of it this way, the primarchs and space marines potentially could have been replaced and thrown to the side by the big E. He never ever seemed like he would do that to our golden boys and Valdor. A space marine is to a human what a custodes is to a space marine. Therefore that same line of thinking should include Valdor.

[@clementbianchini8651]

A Valdor vs clone Horus might be interesting, primarch have these god like souls taken from the warp that both Valdor and Horus's clone lack and Abaddon actually defeated the Horus clone so if the Despoiler can i believe Valdor can too

[@seancase71]

He could possibly beat a Primarch due to his skill, he could possibly get a decapitation or something. But I think he probably loses more often than not. The Primarchs are too op, angron lifted a titan off himself, logar took a direct plasma hit from a titan main gun, their bodies are just too much

[@ironduke5058]

When did Lorgar take a hit from a Titan main gun?! And he survived??? Which book does this apparently happen in

[@seancase71]

@@ironduke5058 oh geez, i can't remember the name. It's one of the books where logar is fighting with angron I think it's the one where the go to angrons home world and he becomes a demon prince

[@andreidraguloiu2587]

@@ironduke5058 horus heresy series. Betrayer. the book where angron becomes a demon prince.. and the titan is from the ultramarines.. and he also fights guiliman in that book

[@josephcoon5809]

Taking a “hit” from a titan main gun sounds more like warpcraft rather than physical durability.

[@zingercheese3454]

@@josephcoon5809 This was the case in the book. No warp craft.

[@fixedG]

It'd be cool if there was a temporal, causal loop type of thing where he was one of the two lost Primarchs who was scattered not just across space but back in time to before Unification. That could explain why the Emperor sought him out specifically, because he psychically recognized something very special about him. Then, realizing he was creating a child Valdor with the other Primarchs while adult Valdor already existed, having foreseen them being scattered by the Warp and needing to hide the influence of the Warp and his own foresight into the matter, he expunged that Primarch from the records and clouded every's memories.

[@michaelhowell2326]

I think the time a World Eaters marine punches straight through a Custodes's Auramite armor and through his carapace into his chest. Followed closely by Angron holding up a titan foot.

[@Nick-wv1wo]

Wasn’t the World Eater killing a Custodes a mistake from the author? I thought the author mistook the Custodes for some royal human guard, not an actual op Custodes

[@filwilliamson9149]

@@Nick-wv1wo That would explain a lot about that book. An unarmed space marine punching through auramite is utter bullshit.

[@randomcenturion7264]

@@filwilliamson9149 That's not forgetting the time Harlequinns supposedly killed DOZENS of them, on the way to talk about The Beast. And again, it was later, after a while, stated it was another mistake, but the mental image of laughing elf clowns cutting through Custodes like a hot knife through better, is still an irksome one.

[@henryviiifake8244]

Valdor is arguably the best non-Primarch Space Marine/Custodes, but *he's no Primarch.* Valdor's wariness about Rogal Dorn in _Nemesis_ (due to Dorn's annoyance about the secrecy of the Assassin Clades), and the fact that a less experienced and unarmoured Alpharius outmatched him (while he was wearing armour) count heavily against him. P.S. What's with people sleeping on Lorgar like their favourite matress? Gulliman is widely considered about average amongst the Primarchs in combat ability but he and Lorgar fought each other to a standstill in _Nemesis_ (and, no, Lorgar wasn't even using his psychic powers against Gulliman either). Even if we assume _all_ the other Primarchs would either defeat or tie with Lorgar (in pure combat, perhaps more would defeat him than not, by varying margins), that *does not imply that Valdor has a chance against him.* Even though he is the "runt of the litter" he still tanked a Titan's plasma cannon to the face. 🤷‍♂️

[@danielsmith762]

I thinks it's mainly because we hate Erabus oh so much, so by extension Lorgar bites the big one as well.

[@henryviiifake8244]

@@danielsmith762 Lol Erebus is a 💩 to be fair

[@j4nk3n]

Valdor vs sanguinius definitely not, he would have to take on one of the less combat savy ( I say that but they are all beasts haha ) primarchs

[@spookyghostwriter3110]

Lorgar would probably the easiest one of them to beat in a fight. Hell, if Curze had seen the true form of the Gal Vorbak beforehand, I think he would have let Corax kill Lorgar without lifting a finger.

[@j4nk3n]

@@spookyghostwriter3110 yea lorgar always did strike me as being one of the more weaker primarchs in terms of combat ability, he's too busy preaching the word of chaos undivided to worry about things like wielding a sword etc etc!

[@BloodyArchangelus]

Valdor would not fight sang at all, as sang would not fight valdor. they would just share wine..xD

[@j4nk3n]

@@BloodyArchangelus haha probably mate!

[@randomcenturion7264]

@@BloodyArchangelus What a sight that would be.

[@CoolCraftCool]

It wasnt that soon after Horus was found as the line is actually about Russ not taking the Custodians that seriously however when watching Valdor fight Horus his opinion shifted. For me if you impress Russ with your combat skill that says something!

[@braveheart40kglasgow56]

The reason you can't find the quote about Valdor beating Horus in a sparring match is because I made it up years and years ago on Wikipedia. I got removed constantly and I simply kept editing it back in. I did the same with Russ and Sangiunius as well. Username was Thor12 if I remember correctly haha pretty sure I got blocked or banned. I was always getting told to add in proof. I did this over the course of a good couple of years when the blacklibrary forum was active...I was a fanyboy. People always ref it now so it's officially cannon 😃

[@dcbluenose1873]

I always thought of Valdor as the 'Primarch" of the Custodes, and because the Custodes are more powerful than individual Astartes...

[@chriscurry761]

I think Thunder Warriors would have a few choice words about him.

[@animez9669]

It would be a close fight. And that says alot.

[@cesarjoughin]

I honestly love the facts that your voice isn't super sped up, but maybe it's too slow haha, but I love a nice chill voice

[@Caesar446]

“I cant think of anybody that can say a bad thing about valdor” - well given that he was instructed to bring magnus back in chains and instead went all executioner on the thousand sons. Spending the strength of both legions. I would say he’s more than a little bit a muppet!

[@randomcenturion7264]

Well, he is The Emperor's favorite ass-kisser. Makes sense he can be just as Dense as Big-E.

[@lord_haven1114]

It isn’t even a question in my opinion. There’s 20 (18) primarchs for a reason. It would be silly to have 10k troops almost as strong or as strong as primarchs. So I’m good with keeping primarchs levels above custodes in every way (even the best of the custodes) due to how few of the primarchs there are.

[@infantrymasterWIC]

Reminds me of Mephiston - in the books (I think Darkness in the Blood) they say his psychic prowess was on par with a Primarchs, high praise.

[@eddysplosion]

I don't know much about Valdor. But the fact that he's been alive for so long and not slowing down (to my knowledge) tells me he's something else. Possibly a love child between the emperor and an eldar since no one else could communicate with him psychically he found a soul mate. Also custodes armor resembles banshee armor.

[@mobilegamersunite]

He's a primearch killer. At least that's what I think he was made for. The time when the emperor turns on the space Marines just like he did the thunder warriors he had slaughtered. Custodes exist to clean up the mess 😂

[@VictoryDragon]

Fun piece of trivia that Rho missed here. Valdor didn’t fight Alpharius. He fought Omegon. The first 2 lines of that novel are, “I am Alpharius. This is a lie”. The book is told from the perspective of Omegon, who refers to himself as Alpharius throughout the book, but tells you with those first two lines that he’s actually Omegon. It’s done to make a point.

[@spsawyer22]

See, I look at it as Alpharius and Omegon swapped multiple times as they are wont to do. Thus the current living Primarch of the Alpha Legion is Omegon. Who is actually Alpharius. Pretending to be Omegon.

[@KevBoughen]

I've always thought that Valdor was made to be the last line of defence against everything including primarchs. I don't think we've ever seen him go all out. I know he predates them but the emperor seems to have always planned on them, so it makes sense he would have a final safeguard.

[@plasticbudgie]

The valdor and alpharius conflict was actually a test sent by the emperor, he knew Valdor wouldn't die but told him to go a little hard. I know this because some Bro in the local saloon on domanansihk told me.

[@MrFallenone]

7:09 uuuuuh. He was with his legion from their inception. Spreading their webs over the growing imperium from the very beginning.

[@ornado4773]

From everything i've ready about Constantin and the Custodes and Primarchs - no he's not a Primarch not at all. Is he strong enough to defeat or kill one? Absolutely he could. He is the Big E's weapon turned into a person - manipulated to be the perfect commander and soldier and constantin KNOWS THIS BUT DOESN'T CARE. He was given a spear that FORCES YOU TO SEE THE LIFE OF THE THING YOU SLAYED - every demon or thing he kills he takes upon their memories and ESSENCE and he is still WHOLE. He is STRONGER then a Primarch in almost every-single-way. He's jusut missing that key component that makes them-them the warp shenanigans because of that though he is uncorruptable and will fight until his bitter end.

[@TheGateShallStand]

All I'm saying is that he could beat Magnus is chess, but not Horus in battle

[@seelenverkaufer4861]

Because he is a big NEeEEeRd. Lol. I'm just kidding bud.

[@DarkNaifu]

Valdor is definetly a cut above, and I think it all has to do with his secret past. If GW is finally going to explore that, then I can't wait. I used to have a theory that the primarchs were all heroes/generals from the ancient past (think Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan) who the emperor had a run in with and became friends with, thus why he brought them back as primarchs. Anyway, old theory, but I think it could still apply to Valdor. Back to the question however, I think Valdor is to the custodies what the primarchs are to the space marines. And I don't mean that in a literal sense, but a power one. I think Valdor was given a little something extra that does put him on par with the weaker primarchs.

[@pixelgun4789]

Chaos and Horus: gets to the palace Palace: Happy Custodian noises.

[@im2randomghgh]

I think the Alpharius fight was mischaracterised here somewhat. Valdor broke through Alpharius's guard pretty much immediately, then Alpharius changes tactics and tries to attack. In the time it took alpharius to stab once, Valdor stabbed, drew his spear back, parried, and turned on the spot. After the fight even Valdor calls Alpharius "almost a match". The fact that Alpharius acknowledged that Valdor is incapable of arrogance lends credence to it too. I don't think Alpharius being inexperienced is a factor either, because primarchs are born with their skills. Perturabo understands machines he's never had explained to him and Alpharius said it felt like he was born to hold a spear or some such.

[@SyberStain]

My theory is Valdor Could be a prototype Primark, like the Thunder-Warriors were for the Astartes but not unstable, and why the Emperor went to so much effort to obtain him is most likely down to him being present in the visions of the future, where he wipes out the chaos as he would go to pretty much any length to do so, for all we know the BigE know he would become the king in yellow and may even be part of his plan all along

[@cardboardcutter3415]

Valdor was around before the Primarch project. He was around when the 20 capsules were “stolen” away from the Emperor.

[@Coproquim]

As the Valdor/Alpharius fight was only like 3 strikes each, its very possible that Valdor simply didn't realise that there were other beings as capable as himself in combat, and therefore pulled his punches as he. assumed he was up against nothing more than an enhanced human, after all being a master warrior and tactician, he's know that it's stupid to display the full extent of his skill in the opening moves

[@Pocgamer]

I think that Valdor and the Custodes might be an example of what the Emperor was aiming for when designing the Astartes, and may have been used as a starting point for the Primarchs.

[@Alastair_]

It was said he could go toe to toe with the smaller Primarchs but honestly I can't see him taking out the big ones like Russ, Angron, Sangy etc

[@doomguy9049]

Isn't he supposed to be bigger than russ and a head taller?

[@Katthewm]

Possibly dumb idea, but could he be the son of a primarch? Maybe one of the lost ones? Him being the emperors grandson would explain all the love.

[@Metalsonic91]

If the Hersey had been lost and the emperor was unable to leave the golden throne Valdor would have been the last line of defence between the traitors and the emperor he would have funneled eternity gate The real question how many traitors would have fallen before Valdor did

[@darkage5]

So I read the comments and someone made a few good points. He could be a Proto Primarch template without the warp meddling. Yes each Custodes is an individual creation but they still follow a similar template of creation i.e. modification, extra organs, etc, which is t then altered to suit the man. Don't forget that in situations like the Dark Angels. Any man that was too old to go through the process to become an Astares, went through a genetic modification process that got them close enough to the Space Marine template. This was also good enough to make Luther powerful enough to all but beat the Lion. So circling back around to if Valdor could beat a Primarch. I would say the answer would be yes. But which one is the question. My money would be on him absolutely clapping Lorgar. The Lion would be next on the list for the reasons above.

[@markmueller-rougier3098]

One possibility aside from the fact he was something special based on what the emperor did just to get him, is he was a test of all the science the emperor was going to use to make the Primarchs with none of the warp magic. Or maybe even just less of the warp magic.

[@NemesisMarine01]

Hail to the Prince of Mankind.

[@ianjankus8090]

I think Valdor probably gets into a Batman-type prep scenario. I think after studying his enemy, and arranging the fight appropriately on favored terrain, or engaging an enemy who has already been fighting, while he is fresh, he has a fighting chance. However, going toe to toe with these peer or above-peer enemies without prep is a losing proposition. I don't know if its just an honorific, but in 'Valdor: Birth of the Imperium' they refer to the rebellious leader of the Thunder Warriors as their "Primarch" who he defeats with seeming ease. I doubt however, its anything more than a title like "leader" or "captain".

[@Diarmadhim101]

Lorgar was found as a child by "The Declined" on Colchis. Kor Phaeron beat him as a child and when he realized how special and resilient Lorgar was, he had the guards beat him with mauls. I'm not saying you're wrong based on this though. I agree completely with your thoughts on him.

[@jackharvey9808]

“I can’t think of anyone who hasn’t anything bad to say about Constantin Valdor” *Rogal Dorn has entered Chat*

[@toi_techno]

Valdor fighting a primarch would be like a JCB that can move its hydraulic arms at the speed of sound fighting a CAT loader that can more quicker

[@saltedllama2759]

Valdor was a Primarch in all but title. While he wasn't "programmed" with the ability to lead armies and fleets, he was every bit as gigantic (over 11 feet tall), fast, strong, and skilled with a weapon. He was built to be loyal to the Emperor's personal safety at all costs and that's it. He also was around before the Primarchs. When Erda the perpetual revealed that there were 25 test tubes in the Emperor's basement, and we know that only 20 were used for the Primarchs of the Legions, we have to ask what the other 5 were for. One could very well have been LE2 - the prototype Astartes made not from the genes of a Primarch, but entirely lab-hatched and later became Erda's personal bodyguard. A few could have been failed experiments, and one certainly could have, at one time long ago, belonged to Valdor. Skill and ability alone aren't enough to challenge a Primarch, as no Astartes could do it; not Sigismund, not Abaddon, not Kharn, not Sevetar...all of them had encounters with Primarchs and got hilariously whooped with little effort from the Primarch. It's also the sheer physical prowess and durability. The Primarchs are repeatedly described as being able to flip over 100-ton shipping crates with one hand, withstand blows from god-weapons and endless bullets, incapable of being ill, all have psychic potential, absurdly mammoth intellects, and moving with speed that puts the fastest Aeldari to shame. They are also described on numerous occasions as being 50% taller than an Astartes (sometimes more, in the case of Magnus, Jaghati, and Vulkan), and three times the bulk. So we are talking about beings hand-created by a deity with the help of perpetuals, dark age science and the Warp, who are 12 foot tall or taller, weighing well over a ton and with exponential ability relative to their size. These guys would dwarf Hulk or Juggernaut in size, and Superman would bounce off of them like a crumb. Fans mistakenly used to think they were similar in size to Astartes, or perhaps just slightly bigger/better, but that's not the case at all. Even Alpharius is much larger and more capable; he is just a master of illusion, misdirection, and deception (but his own brothers can sniff him out; yes, Dorn killed the real Alpharius). Valdor is described in every way very similar in stature and ability to the Primarchs. He isn't just a "slightly better" Custodian; he was around when the Emperor needed to end the Thunder Warriors - soldiers who themselves were described as physically more imposing than an Astartes, just far less stable - and Valdor was his executioner. He killed the best of them with EASE. In 1-on-1 combat, Valdor could hold his own with the Primarchs, and that's because he's made a lot like them. Perhaps just without the Warp taint.

[@michael3595]

Would be great to see new lore from GW on how the custodians were created and why Big E chose to develop primarchs as legion commanders instead of using Custodes.

[@richardnash1224]

For me, I feel he could have beat Alpharius in that match. He didn't know who Alpharious was and he wanted to get more information about him before he killed him. He could have shot Alpharious in the back while he was still watching the Emperor arrive but he choose to engage him in combat. His need for knowledge and understanding of this new threat greater than the kill. Chances are he would have also known Alpharious was a Primach once he saw his face. The surety of Alparious is down to his own self belief, he hadn't truly been tested and in that short fight, Valdor didn't really try to kill him. He was boasting in his own head how he had hidden his plan from the Emperor and Malcador, but still, Valdor knew where he would be.

[@cogline9]

Valdor may be like a Primarch in many ways but keep in mind that he was born like a normal human from a mother and father as opposed to the Primarchs themselves all being grown from just a clump of cells. I believe Constantin even comments on watching these cells dividing, multiplying and getting bigger in the book "Valdor, Birth of the Imperium." I'm of the mind that Valdor is a freak example of the next step of human evolution that Big E has been so fiercely trying to hurry the creation of. Constantin was just an odd happenstance that happened randomly but the Emperor was able to recognize (perhaps with his psychic abilities) hence all the effort Emps went through to aquire Valdor.

[@theabomb8305]

I think that Valdor is to the primarchs what the thunder warriors are to the astartes. He may be a prototype because I think that we see that he discusses the creation of the primarchs with the Emperor of Mankind

[@aaron4135]

He is basically the personal body guard of the emperor he could easily teabag half the primarch’s. The emperor searched for him specifically and developed him specifically to be his right hand, he is better then most in combat and also smarter then most of them.

[@flaviomonteiro1414]

For me Valdor is top tier... Physically and Mentally capable as any of the Primarchs, with the plus of being more experience. But one thing I do believe Valdor lacks, is the "Primarch Aura" the one capable of inspire, make people few awe, fear... What make the Primarchs "perfect generals" wasn't only their ability to fight, but their ability to lead and/or well use some warp fuckery to do the job.

[@philg8994]

It stands to reason that if a Custode would molly whop a regular Space Marine, the equivalent of a Primarch for The Custodes would be at least as strong if not stronger than a Primarch.

[@DD8842]

I think he's got the most free will of all of the Golden Boys. That alone I'm sure is a hell of an upgrade. I don't think he's a primarch because if the big e had one already he wouldn't have needed to make his sons.

[@greatamazinga]

I don’t think The King in Yellow is a Primarch, but he is a step above them, just as The Emperor intended!

[@Jagonath]

Don't know if he's a Primarch, but Big E was born in Anatolia (Turkey) and Constantine was born in Constantinople (Turkey). In Birth of the Imperium, its strongly implied that the Emperor launched a super secret, important mission, to recover Valdor. So perhaps he intended Valdor as a "proto Primarch" that he could upgrade, if necessary. Primaris Custodes, anyone? I fully expect a big reveal in the last two Siege of Terra books where Valdor f*cks up one of the traitor Primarchs, probably Magnus. We've had Dorn vs Fulgrim, Khan vs Mortarion, and will get Sanguinius vs Angron. Who does that leave to face Magnus? Plus, Magnus is "weakened" now, so on par with Valdor (even if he isn't a full Primarch). It makes even more sense that Valdor has the Emperor's spear, so we'll likely see flashbacks where Valdor learns the truth about Magnus's fall to chaos.

[@CoolCraftCool]

In Primarch combat a few seconds is a very very long time!

[@DandySlayer13]

Could Valdor be a proto-Primarch and a templete for the future Adeptus Custodes that would follow him? It could explain why the Emperor went so far to retrieve him in both cases. Maybe he decided after Valdor that unquestioning obedience and loyalty was not something he wanted in his future warmachines/sons that would help him in uniting and uplifting mankind and that it would be better suited to his personal guard?

[@RadarLeon]

imagine if constatin valdor was the primarch of the custodes ... basically only person better is the emperor ?

[@AtamskArchadian]

I’ve been wondering the same thing about Constantine since reading Penitent.

[@tabbyplays930]

If you're fighting in melee with swords... don't you have to have the physical strength to actually take the fight to the enemy? I'd say yes.

[@brianhurley890]

I've always felt the custodies were the emperor's first successful step towards the realization of his primarch project. And among the ranks of the custodis. Valdor stands alone, and Above...

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

Depends on the primarch I'd say. Lorgar? Yeah, he'd beat Lorgar. Russ or Sanguinius? No, likely not.

[@danielsmith762]

Maybe Russ, if he got under his collar. Russ makes missteps when angered. Valdor has little/no feelings. Sangy though, completely different animal. He can fly, see the future, etc. Outside of the lion I'm not sure who could beat him in skill.

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

@@danielsmith762 agreed. Constantin has the skill and tactics to take a primarch if he manages to undermine their composure. I don't see him matching their raw strength and speed tho.

[@mawdeeps7691]

@@danielsmith762 the khan and the lion in sword skill are better pretty much all would beat him in an outright fight to the death though

[@MichaelBrown-rg8oi]

I believe he has reached his best potential and would argue that equals him out with most of the Traitor Primarchs who had that natural ability but never reached their full potential while I would argue when they joined Chaos it just enhanced their natural ability. I do think he would be near the middle of the pack of Primarchs when it comes to the overall balance as I do think he is an overall better commander than most of them and would argue he would be a better at building/expanding a civilization then most as well.

[@Lady_Merlin_]

I think that valdor was the peak of what could be done to an existing human being in terms of alteration, and the proof that if the big E wanted better, he would have to start from scratch rather than alter other humans to become the primarchs

[@driton4titon557]

If it came down to a fight the emperor would definitely be watching great video 👍

[@____________838]

No, and likely only the ones that weren’t particularly combat focused… (I’m looking at you, Lorgar)

[@ethereall187]

im seeing the lost primarchs as a kane and abel situation. one good and one evil, valdor being the good but failed to stop the other from committing an atrocity. they were then disciplined by the emperor, the evil one being destroyed and valdor loosing his title as primarch

[@agentorangecb1]

Primarks are intentionally above and beyond, on a different tier. That doesn't diminish Valdor at all but i think significant shenanigans would be needed for him to best a Primark

[@hitbycars]

Valdor, unlike the Primarchs, was not super egotistical or arrogant as he never needed to be called “son” by the emperor to know his value, while the 21 Primarchs all needed to have their egos stroked in some capacity