Is Eliza the Most Underrated Character in Tekken 7? - Wavedash Highlights

[@ThatBlastedSalami]

Accidentally uploaded a 720p version for a few minutes. Sorry if you got double notifications on this.

[@unciervoenciervado]

I can see Frame two times so that's a win

[@redmoon5893]

Underrated yes but there are so many broken characters in the game that makes her look week

[@EXDPresso]

I consider myself pretty familliar with Eliza. She's far better than people gave her credit for. I'd say she's solid mid tier with glaring issues. She thrives on people trying to pressure her with her crazy ch launches in b1,2 - d4 - d1xxdp1. She has a 10f launch with super. So you need to play a patient game vs. her where you also pay attention to her meter. She doesn't have much of a plusframe game and has a lot of - on block moves, like a LOT. I think the community needs to stop getting in the Eliza is top 10 train. She's not THAT good. A lot of the cast have 50/50 wall setups or godlike pressure. So does she, she excells at the wall with d3xxqcb 1+2 which can lead to stupid damage. But a LOT of the cast have stupid damage. Take Hwoarangs throw game f.e. ? Paul's deathfists? Kazuya's electric damage? Hei's omen Etc. Her high damage combos have solid execution barriers slightly lower then Akuma level but nowhere near the same damage. Her divekickpressure isn't real, even at the wall you can jab interrupt, low parry dickjabs, sidewalk/step.. You can fuzzy guard moonglide mixups. So you have your options. It's just a crucial character to know the match-up. D3 range is fine, but it's super inconsistent apperently due to engine issues. Her so called powerful EXDP wake-up is a thing from 2d games. You bait that out and launch. Again, play a patient game, watch her meter before you apply oki setups. She's heavily punishable for any low she goes for except d3 which is special cancellable. She can really stomp players who don't know the matchup, but has a hard time vs. players who do. She's a mixup character with high risk, med-high reward depending on stage and meter. So yeah, definetely not top 10. But way more up than people gave her credit for. I could continue this but this comment long af. Anyway it's nice to see she's getting some attention. She's a fun character to play

[@kirazira7468]

I agree man. She isn't that good. Mg is NOT a true mixup. People that don't know her think it is. Mg 4 is seeable. Can pretty much be fuzzied. If the eliza has meter she is probably going to mg4. This eliza is top 10 thing isn't true. I'm afraid my character is going to take more nerfs because of this thought process.

[@EXDPresso]

@@kirazira7468 I really agree with frame here, she's in a good spot. She might get a damage nerf at the wall if the new S4 move is really good. But then again nothing the balancing team does makes sense. Just wait and see. I hope they'll stay away from anything Eliza related 😂

[@kirazira7468]

@@cero1104 I get that. Changing your timing to mix up the opponent. But even in that your talking about doing something extra just to make what is intended to be a mix up a mix up you know? It's just kind of funny how truly misunderstood this character is outside of people who main her I feel.

[@kirazira7468]

@@EXDPresso I know right! Btw man gotta also say appreciate the tech. You find some really cool stuff!

[@katoblue6282]

EXDPresso rather play raven with the high risk

[@welsh_steel2285]

(won't say anything regarding Eliza seeing as the character is such important Waifu material to some of you...)

[@dearikj90]

In all fairness as an Eliza player, her wall pressure is oppressive. But that is her entire reason for being. On stages with no walls she's almost helpless with and without meter. In neutral her frames are bad enough that almost everything she does is high risk, launch punishable, with mediocre payoff. Combo damage has scaled so high now that her max average damage being 60-70 is on the lower end despite the risk. It is only when she gets someone against a wall that her damage increases noticably. The moon glide 4 buff has people complaining but it's honestly the only reason she's a threat at all, now. Before the move was worthless. It's launch punishable, did not lead to a combo and very linear. The risk vs reward was insanely skewed. Now it's usable and, I would even say, worth the risk. Let's not forget, this character is no Leroy or Paul who could be played well by a brain-dead gorilla. There's a lot of execution for every thing she does, including the MG 4 to instant EX Divekick that has people bothered. Hitting or missing a tiger knee in the clutch will win or lose her games all the time. The character has as much or more required execution than a character like Nina or Julia. That is something taken into consideration when talking about them and should also be taken into consideration for Eliza. TLDR: she's not amazing. She still has the same glaring weaknesses as before but the recent buffs give her something to work with when before she had very little.

[@louisp_g3670]

I'm to the point to think meter is useless and only gimmickly-based in infinite stages.

[@Atibu]

I like my sleepy vampire girl.

[@jjwrx8]

@POPE OF ORA A weeb would hate her she's not Japanese you fool!

[@KenshinOsu]

@POPE OF ORA Yikes.

[@SleepmodeKNB]

Eliza probably seems so underwhelming compared to Akuma and Geese (at least in terms of meter usage) because she’s the only 2D character who was a Tekken character first -- Tekken Revolution Eliza was a very different beast (and arguably more interesting, but that’s another can of worms). I also think the point about Eliza being strong with walls in play is interesting, because I think it’s true, but I also think it’s true for literally every character to some extent. So much of Tekken 7’s design seems so focused on interacting with the wall (screws make wall carry trivial, wall bounce being a thing are two obvious ones) that I kind of wonder why there are any infinite stages in the first place. The question is less “how good is your character at the wall” and more “how much is your character hurt by a lack of walls” imo

[@LokiTheAnsuz]

I'm with Frame here. Under Arya's logic, Xiaoyu is also top tier, but she is certainly not. She has no poking game and her evasion is gone after all the AOP nerfs (mids buffs)... Also, almost everyone is dangerous at the wall xD

[@jordanvanlief7349]

Nina is kind of similar where she loses a lot of her threat on stages with no walls. It becomes much harder to play at her effective range when people can backdash forever.

[@r0n1n-]

Arya: top ten Frame: top ten shitiest Arya: top ten with walls Frame: top ten shitiest

[@free_playstation_2]

In all honesty for 99% of players in Tekken, the tier list doesn't matter. Only the top 1% know how to deal with more characters and their options. Gigas is definitely the worst character, but you can still reach higher ranks easily, just because nobody knows how to deal with his options. Anna, Lei, all of those characters are quite low tier, but casuals wouldn't say so. Hell, for a good example take a look at 3rd Strike, Yun and Chun are the absolute top tiers with only winning or even MUs. You still see the japanese scene bring out different character picks such as Urien, Ken, Hugo... Eliza may be underpowered but you can definitely have fun with her on your average ranked match.

[@sharkythesharkdogg9732]

As Arya is explaining the MG4 low to ex dive kick to wall combo, it's playing in the background. And it does......64dmg. (Looks at the rest of the cast in comparison.) For spending a bar of meter. And starts with a move that is launch punishable. Yes its main MG mixup option is safe, but both moves are side walk-able. So IF the combo works in that scenario, yes, now you're at the wall and now she can mix you up. However, once at the wall, unless she has another bar, D3 exqcb1+2 isn't a concern, which eliminates a lot of her scary wall mix up. Plus, I've had people backdash the d3 out of clean hit range even when their back was to the wall. So then Eliza get's punished for something that should have been clean hit. She's not broken. She has to WORK for a lot of her big damage stuff. It's still not the same big damage as the other 2D characters, and it's doesn't even compare in execution and risk/versus reward when compared to a lot of the cast. Particularly the new DLC crew. She needs a third meter bar, or a Bloody Horn that's worth spending the meter on (like Deadly Storm), and maybe a safe low poke. If you're not going to do that, then give her a little more to work with in the neutral. She had something when ff3,4 jailed on block, but now it's hard. There's no real safe approach tool she has outside of MG2, but when that connects they get knocked away again. Also, fix the hit box on her Rage Art.

[@ThatBlastedSalami]

It's an unseeable low

[@sharkythesharkdogg9732]

@@ThatBlastedSalami Hey Arya! First thing, just because I mentioned you please don't think it was supposed to be like an attack on you. I really appreciate all your hard work and enthusiasm in the community. I wasn't saying that in anger or anything. Online, I'd firmly agree yes. Offline, sharp players can fuzzy it under certain situations since the frames can vary. I'm not saying it isn't strong, but it needs meter for any form of wall carry unless I'm mistaken. I liken it to DJ's hellsweep combo most of the time, only you can never fuzzy his. She'll get solid damage, but not wall carry unless the situation is right. Once she has meter, try to stay aware and start walking. With DJ, you realize you're close to the wall, and start walking if you think they're going to do it. It's not apples to apples, but it's kinda similar.

[@ThatBlastedSalami]

​@@sharkythesharkdogg9732 No worries, but I think 64 damage plus wall carry is remarkably good for a low. That combo wasn't even particularly optimal. The fact that you need to be in moonglide first is mostly a disadvantage, but it's a strong approach tool in itself. The point I was trying to make wasn't that Eliza lacks weaknesses, it's that she can cover her weaknesses with the correct gameplan and make the opponent play on her terms, which is the sign of a strong character.

[@sharkythesharkdogg9732]

@@ThatBlastedSalami I somewhat agree, with a caveat. A strong character can effectively cover their weaknesses and make the opponent play on their terms. I'm not sure Eliza's gameplan is particularly effective, at least once the opponent gets to know her. You play Steve, so you know in the right hands with the right knowledge and execution, his gameplan is incredible. He can be a monster anywhere at any time. You also know without those things, he's very difficult to use. I think even in expert hands, Eliza isn't able to execute a solid gameplan. She's high stakes with mediocre rewards until she gets a wall. But I mean, even Gigas is a monster at the wall. While she can certainly control some aspects of how a character approaches her, it's not foolproof (as a fool I should know). I wouldn't say she can completely cover her weaknesses at all. Throw too many darkwaves and you eat a King capital punishment, or a Julia sidestep f+3~1, or a maybe a Hunting Hawk, and lots of other sidestep WR moves. Backdash her divekick pressure, then get back in her face. Bait out a b1,2 or the exDP. A good backdash shuts down A LOT of her up close shenanigans. She does have reasonably strong midrange keep away, but I feel even her up close keep out is just okay. The fact that MG4 a practically unseeable low goes back to what frame was saying about in season 3 that it's her party piece. It completely changed her playstyle (again) and got people interested. She needs meter to capitalize on it, just like she needs meter to capitalize on most situations. Her neutral almost always leaves her at negative, and her keep away/keep out comes with options that are almost all risky in their own way. I never feel like I'm playing safe Tekken with her. I feel her weaknesses outshine her strengths, but it's fun to debate these things. Thanks again for the great videos!

[@MrOzzification]

In all honesty I think that title goes to Raven. But IDK if the Tekken community is ready for that conversation. Many people say Raven is bad or think she's just another Yoshi that's all gimmicks, no neutral and just dies to people that know the MU. But most of the community also has 0 idea how Raven actually works. She's a lot stronger and more neutral-based than many would have you believe. TMM flat out admitted that he knows nothing about Raven but still goes on to say she's only good online and can't do anything against people who know the MU. Despite the fact that Tissuemon was the #1 ranked TWT EU player for 2 consecutive years.

[@ThatBlastedSalami]

Raven is definitely up there too. Just a few too many hitbox inconsistencies.

[@olhur]

That Whispered Salami

[@ohacade408]

Is the game footage using some kind of mod? The framerate, lighting, shadows and motion blur look amazing.

[@fishes002]

Frame is so hot 💋 lol

[@ArtofBrian]

What about Salami?

[@jeremystery]

🤮

[@princekatchafire9104]

Frame is mine back off bitch

[@Stilllife1999]

@@ArtofBrian beating it.

[@ArtofBrian]

@@Stilllife1999 😐😐😐

[@omegax4192]

I'm a proud Eliza main

[@SrAlanBriz]

Since you guys live close could we ever expect to see some sets between the two of you here on youtube? That would be rad

[@Saiche1337]

Sure her wall game is really good, but getting people tp the wall is the problem. You basically just have to pray that your opponent fucks up. She doesn't have anything to oppress her opponent with that actually gets them to the wall. Her lows are terrible, her pokes aren't good, and her CH game is mediocre. Playing against an opponent with good movement is a nightmare with her because she has poor tracking and divekick 4 has terrible range which is one of her best moves. Her gameplan in neutral feels like its just how many times can i press b+1, 4 before my opponent kills me or I launch them and make them guess at the wall.

[@63skarduken]

I wonder what are elizas good matchups?

[@louisp_g3670]

I totally agree with FrameWhisperer says. Eliza seems incredibly strong against people who don't know her, but once against some guy who knows what to do and who is really good at this, i's a nightmare to fight as her. There are sooo many reasons for this, don't let you impressed by the big damage you see.

[@oryxconceptual]

One thing I think people have grown to expect of tekken is that it has to be extremely balanced and that unless you play one of the top 5 characters you’re fucked. I think a lot of people fail to see the how the game works. Fundamentals in tekken are SO important that top tier character or not you will win or lose based on your skill and knowledge of the game. There is only ONE broken character and that is fak. But even with his hit box issues and crazy good tools, he can be dealt with just fine if you learn how. That is the whole point of tekken. Learn how

[@lazytommy0]

Im not at all familiar with Eliza but i respect those who main her. She is difficult to deal with unless you study anti strat

[@therandompizaguy]

Master Raven is the most underrated character imo

[@mibbzx1493]

Characters actually need to be nerfed to Eliza’s level. Shes a balanced character with obvious weaknesses but that what these DLC are. Overpowered. Leroy, Fakumram and Zafina even Marduk are a nightmare for her because 2 errors against them & thats game over because they have ridiculously high damage are spoiled just because you brought them.

[@edwinatwell7423]

I really think that Frame Whisperers argument was just...obscenely weak. "What if they don't fuck up the approach, parry your lows, know the match-up, and catch you on one of the 3 endless stages of this 15+ stage game when you don't have meter." Like Jesus Christ dude. Literally every character loses in that situation. If someone completely outplays you and shuts you down with robot like accuracy and has completely dissected your character you will lose with literally any character. Even Akuma or release Leroy.

[@best_dad_ever5716]

Many people play her in Indian tekken community....they beat everyone with eliza thats why everyone is picking her.....fuck bad frames....she is good at keepout, has good high crush and evasion , can pressure also with dive kick, has good mixups and on top of all this 2d bullshit and cheap setups.....she is definitely underrated....let alone wall game

[@boitahaki]

Eliza Kreygasm

[@actuallyhard315]

Leo is massively underrated buff Leo plz thanks

[@Tulkeleth]

40 top 10 characters sounds about right since almost everyone is busted in S3 XD

[@redmoon5893]

I like how everyone like to shite on the character he play XD

[@President_Shin]

The broads a body sniper from the air

[@redkhamelejoon1599]

MASTER RAVEN

[@princekatchafire9104]

Buff alisa!!!!:P

[@Stilllife1999]

Better buff irelia

[@chiefkamachi1]

Totally agree with you Arya! Recently Ive been playing her a lot and she has crazy potential that is hidden behind execution and offensive reactions. What I mean by that is reacting to when a d3 hits from far or from close range, reacting to optimal jump in 2s and 4s but most importantly reacting to instant divekicks. If you hit an instant divekick with good execution you are at +14 no matter how close or far you are, which makes divekick, 2,2, dp possible. If you hit an instant divekick on the tip of their foot you are at +15 which means you can confirm that into b4, dp which gives a full launch! I think no one is using her to her full potential yet.

[@EXDPresso]

There is no way you can hitconfirm the hit + range for specific frameadvantage to reliably use b4xxdp1 after divekick4. Which is the reason you don't see that. You have 1 specific setup for that on right techoll wake-ups which is also unsafe to attempt. Dk4,1xxdp2 is the safest to go for and still hitconfirmable. People on pro level have been playing her since lauch. She's pretty well explored

[@chiefkamachi1]

@@EXDPresso if you cant do it doesnt mean everybody else cant do it. Just a reminder, Knee put Akuma at the absolute bottom of his tier list in season 1 because he thought it was impossible to do those combos.

[@EXDPresso]

@@chiefkamachi1 This is not about me. This is about the game. You can't do it because there is no "tell" of exactly how plus you are and the risk you take commiting to b4xxdp1 is too big. Sure, you can "twitch" hitconfirm and gauge where you've hit to take an educated guess. But that's all it's going to be.. a guess

[@BruhSpammer90]

just fix her D3 and double its clean hit range, give her a low poke that doesn't kill her on block, fix her RA's range or give her a RD,

[@DeadLock247]

please make a video about lars

[@t7justkc64]

Just buff her d3 make it similar to akuma and then we're all good.

[@grantgarbour]

I'd say allow her d3 to launch with 1 bar like akuma, but I fucking hate akuma so make akuma require 2 bars to launch as well. Also yeah buff her range a lil bit

[@Bloom_HD]

10f launcher with meter. Pure 50/50 mid low wallsplats at the wall. Quick long range mid that knocks down and wallsplats aswell. Has DP as the best panic move in the game. Ridiculous "fake pressure" from her instant divekicks "but they're hard oh noes ;( ". But I suppose d3 clean hit is bad so she must be low tier. after all, What top tier character DOESN'T have an unseeable highcrushing low that launches on normal hit? Man I really wanted T8 instead of S4... There might have been a chance to have a 2d free Tekken

[@Senumunu]

dude T8 is not coming for quite a while. it will be a next gen game and probably not even release within the first year.

[@Bloom_HD]

@@Senumunu I know. Just wanted to see the light at the end of the tunnel you know?

[@Senumunu]

@@Bloom_HD the sooner they put out the teaser the bigger the expectations relative to release date. If it was up to me I would drop a trailer 1 month before release and that's it. This hype shit is toxic as fuck.

[@DWIP798]

The 10f launcher requires 2 bars, she has 2 10f ch launchers too, but you won't see them much because it requires good reaction and execution. The mg mix-up is not a 50/50 it's a 20/80 : all options from mg are beaten by ss/sw but her homing high. Exdp requires one bar and is launch punishable. Yeah her pressure is fake, she only has 3 moves that gives + frames ob divekick 4 jumping 2 and jab and that fake pressure only works at the wall. D3 doesn't launch on normal hit and if you talk about mg4 it's 18frames if done the earliest possible up to 25 if delayed, so not always unseeable, needs a metter to launch and the combo does low damage. Now, she's not bottom tier but she's not top either, mid seems reasonable

[@Time2GoHam1995]

I wouldn’t call her DP as one of the best panic moves in the game. Her/Akuma’s DP aren’t invincible until the 8th frame, the same amount of time it takes for armor to kick in for most armor moves. Said armor moves are usually not launch punishable unless they are also launchers.

[@sheeneemee]

She's still low tier imo, a character with lows that are all launch punishable cannot be good fundamentally. She has very little range on anything outside of dark wave and some other tools, the frames are the worst in the game, huge execution barrier, and she's much more dependent on meter and walls compared to geese and akuma, she requires 2 bars to do anything substantial, and even her options out of meter are unimpressive imo. tmm said "Eliza is really good at" 2d bullshit" but the only nugget I can find is her d3 becoming a launcher with 2 bars, and given that we have akuma who does the same thing with 1 bar, it's just not very impressive. Eliza is weak, and I'd like to see anyone attempt to convince me otherwise.

[@jessISaRicePrincess]

I'm still gonna say she's trash so they hopefully buff her

[@shenelljohnson74]

They buff a 2D character everyone riots

[@MrLyniek]

I really hope they will fix broken 3+4

[@Crazybark]

Anime sections still gone

[@dawn3257]

Why do you wear sunglasses in your house?

[@t1mson1c]

Cause he can

[@justajackal3574]

I know a game reviewer who does that because he has some problems with his eyes. Especially when he is streaming and sits in front of his lamp. So it may just be that, a protection against the bright lamps that a lot of video creators use to light themselves up.

[@ThatBlastedSalami]

Mostly to make fun of Spag.

[@dreday6320]

Exactly. You're absolutely right about her being top 10. She can control the pace of the fight. Framewhisper counter is that once somebody figure out her game plan, she is not as good. But that can be applied to any character. You do not want to be too close to Eliza and you don't want to be far. 2D in this game dominates

[@edwinatwell7423]

This is why you have a main and a pocket pick.

[@AntifragileStar]

I think I saw arslan stream testing out Eliza the s3 buff is big wall dmg and the crossup 10 hit can insta kill like geese agreed on a wall stage top 10

[@parzy7764]

10 hit only hits on tech roll left so if she jabs then jumps while ur splatted roll right

[@RenegadeVile]

I don't know about underratee but her design is terrible, voice grating and gameplay garbage.

[@shenelljohnson74]

What? Does that have to do with her appearance lol

[@RenegadeVile]

@@shenelljohnson74 What does what have to do with her appearance?

[@best_dad_ever5716]

Everyone knows eliza players cry for no reason....she dominants online and also good offline ....only the Eliza pros(Chanel ,etc) have the reason to cry .