Is Fast Twist 270 Win. Really Better?

Welcome back to Ron Spomer Outdoors! In today's episode, we're exploring the intriguing topic of fast twist barrels in the 270 Winchester. Many shooters are starting to turn to faster twist rates, and we're here to answer the burning question: Is a fast twist 270 Win. really better? 🤔
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
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Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.

[@ckoby4341]

Long live the .270 Win.!

[@wisconsinfarmer4742]

It is fun to shoot. just got a couple for the family this year.

[@jonparker4108]

Amen

[@Dreweldeenknives]

I got a 270 Ruger American with a Boyd stock for my first deer/ boy game rifle

[@thomasdaum1927]

It has been around a long time and will be around for a lot longer , way longer than the crapmore cartridges !……

[@jtmachete]

The 270 will never die. Fantastic cartridge

[@fuzztsimmers3415]

Yeah these new cartridges are "better" but remember the sheer amount of 270s out there.

[@skippylippy547]

I agree with you Jeff. I've used my .270 for 50 years and never felt I needed anything else for deer, elk, pronghorn, bear, and wolves.

[@colinkobel2868]

I have been shooting a .270 for over 60 yrs. This caliber has never failed me even on elk. Although I haven’t ever shot much over 200 yds with the belief that it was the effective range. Also, that a person needs to be a good enough hunter to get within good range. So, you have gotten me pretty excited to build a gun with this faster twist barrel.

[@Simon-talks]

up to 200 yards, most any high powered rifle will take elk. We in this industry love hyperbole, ha!

[@jasonshults368]

For the handloader, there are a few powders that get you over 3000 fps with 150 gr bullets in a 270 with a 22" bbl. If you've got a fast-twist 270 with a 25-26" bbl, 3000 fps with a 165 gr ABLR is safely doable. May want to run the drop and drift numbers on a .625 G1 BC at 3000 fps. Or you could shoot the 170 Berger with its. 662 G1 at slightly less than 3000 fps. A faster twist and a slightly longer barrel turns the 270 into a different animal.

[@kencleg7721]

Same w the .06. 26” barrel would give it 200 fps faster

[@kencleg7721]

Good point a good read is Berger’s loading manual longer throats. It’s why the 6.5 x55 shoots so well all of them I’ve had the throat is endless u run out of seating depth befor u hit the lands -.5 always

[@kencleg7721]

Rl 25,26 h1000 not much difference than the 6.5x06 I run 56 ish and 140 Berger vld rl 26 mines a .270 Spec case throat and seating depth so not the Sami

[@invictus3598]

Nice to see the .270 Winchester can still hold it's own against more modern era cartridges. I saw them work in the late 60s and they were real thumpers on deer and elk. Thank you for sharing your comparison findings!

[@russellkeeling4387]

I won't be around in twenty years but it would be interesting to see how many of these new fast twist rifles are still around then.

[@mikemegame1]

Yeah it's always great. My Remington is flat and accurate. The only reason I switched to 6.5CM is I like AR10 magazines. .308 drop is alot at distance but nothing impossible. As far as the drift is concerned for all those calibrs I think it's irrelevant because I'll never get it right anyways

[@kainhall]

ive seen it knock down deer for the last 20 years... my dads rifle idk why these people are saying its old!! 150 grain pills around 3000 fps??? hell ya! . i wish i had that flat shooting 270 VS my 308 honestly lol 270 also has that 556 tumble/break-up at high velocity.... which just makes a mess of lungs/heart

[@russellkeeling4387]

@@kainhall Wondering where you get 150 grain 270 ammo with 3000 fps.

[@Simon-talks]

@@mikemegame1 For hunting, the drop isn't even a real true difference worth noting.

[@adambrown6125]

I am a .270 win fan two different rifles over the years I didn't think we could improve on perfection but there you go.

[@rick9811]

We dearly love our .270's, the Missus' is a 1949 "WCF" in a Fajen Sportsman stock we had fitted to her (she's 4'9") and mine is a 1952 Standard. Nothing beats the feel of an old Model 70 action.

[@warrengreen3217]

I like the 1970-1980 era model rem 700 better I got a 1972 BDL 308 with jeweled bolt smooth as butter

[@CampbellsCoins]

The faster twist will be excellent for the new copper bullets. Seems to be negligible when comparing lead. Great video as always Ron.

[@warrengreen3217]

Not true at all

[@jackymurphy2848]

Thank you

[@nikos6220]

Agreed, but only when it comes to actually being able to stabilize them. I think on a non-magnum like the 270 Win it creates a potential trap for many hunters. Given that most copper bullets need at least need 2300 ft/s to have decent expansion, running heavier copper bullets will further decrease their max effective range.

[@texpatriot8462]

@@nikos6220 except they are still traveling like a bat out of hell to reasonable distances.

[@nikos6220]

@@texpatriot8462 - reasonable - is exactly my point. I ran it through a ballistics calculator. With a 24‘ barrel you‘ll be fine up to 300 yards. But no one will buy such a long barrel anymore in the new fast twist offerings. With 22‘ it’s more 250 yards. But then why again am I shooting a long and sleek Long Range bullet?

[@dadajackyo]

The thing is, as a handloader, you don't have to shoot book OAL. If you get a barrel with a long throat, you can load that 270 much longer, use a slower powder, and push them heavy bullets fast. I loaded the 308 with a 208 A-MAX to 2650 FPS measured with my magnetospeed using RL-17, which is way too slow for most 308 loads, with amazing accuracy. I was loading at 2.930", which is also well above max OAL in the book, but it fit my rifle perfectly, with about 0.005" jump. Savage makes great rifles... :)

[@xstevenx8132]

I was thinking this exact thing. I even came up with a name in case the ammo companies want to sell ammo for it…277 Winchester. Long throat, fast twist. If the military does a full adoption of the 277 fury, the public will too. Meaning more great 277 bullets will be coming. It may not getting it up to super billet barrel burning range but you have a nice feeding action with less recoil that the fatter cartridges.

[@Lexidezi225]

Thank you!! Someone who knows what they’re talking about. I’ve heard these new browning rifles have longer throats and magazines to handle longer oal.

[@stevej2120]

Glad you came back to compare the 150 vs heavier bullets. I was thinking the 270 Winchester just didn’t have enough horsepower to gain any advantage with the heavy bullets. Those belong in the bigger cartridges. I will keep my 10 inch twist 270 and not worry about it. As an added observation, the standard 22 inch barrel very seldom achieves the listed velocity. Mine is usually 100 FPS below rated velocity for both factory ammo and reloads.

[@nebraskaman8247]

Agreed

[@walterwjr947]

It is so nice to see you go in to great detail about the old stuff. It is amazing to see _how much more_ can be gotten from the _OLD STUFF,_ with a few changes.

[@chipsterb4946]

Handloaders can extract a bit more out of those “obsolete” cartridges too.

[@RMC2021]

I built a custom 6.8 Western last year running 175's at 2810fps and it's an absolute hammer!

[@maineoutdoorsman677]

270 will be around long after we're all gone

[@glhx2112]

I stumbled across a Ruger American in .270 Win about 8 years at a price I could not pass up. One of the best impulse purchases I have ever made in my life. It has never let me down.

[@byronlarson5534]

I love the 270 win 140 g hornady superperformance load. 3090 ft/s at muzzle. 2968 muzzle energy. BC is a little low at .495. However, I hunt in CO - elk at about 8000 ft. elevation. Deer at about 4000 ft. Based on Strelock calculations, I still have 1491 ft. lb of energy at 600 yds at my elk hunting altitude. Over 1000 ft lbs of energy at 800 yds at my deer hunting altitude. Both of those distance are well out of my comfort zone. I might take a 400 yr shot if I have ideal conditions and an excellent rest to stabilize the gun.

[@russellkeeling4387]

I also hunt elk in Colorado where I live. The 130 and 140 grain bullets have humanely harvested a lot of elk here. I don't use one but my son uses his to great affect.

[@BjCmeadows]

Great video Ron! I've been considering getting a faster twist barrel for my 270 Tikka but this helped me solidify the confidence that I really don't Need that for my hunting purposes

[@jmgates09]

Get the 270 wsm

[@approachingtarget.4503]

The .270 was the smallest caliber we had in our white tail hunting group for about 40 years. It was considered the teenager round. Obviously, the market is much larger than we had in the cabin. Between the .308 and .270. I believe the .270 is a much better choice. But Than again, I used smaller rounds like the .30-.30 successfully. Iam just a suckered for the 3006. It's my confidence round. If it's not broke, why fix it?

[@tomdonaghy8625]

My 22" barrel and 1:10 twist is shooting 160 grain Nosler partitions out the spout at 2832 fps with accuracy. Pretty hard to improve on this in the real world.., Delighted that the skinnier and longer 270 bullets are finally getting respect, but when a bullet hits the meat, a 160 Nosler partition at these velocities and tight 100 yd groups is just fine. 56 grains of IMR 4831, CCI 200 primers. It will hit about 8" low at 300 yds and that is as far as i care to shoot. It will be carrying about 1600 ftlbs so no elk is safe. Remington 700 BDL left hand bolt.

[@galenhisler396]

I have a 270 wsm but i always go to my 270 just love that round. Great show as always thank you

[@elroyeolsonjr8729]

Just had a .270 built with 1 and 8 twist on a Husqvarna H5000 action. Haven't got a chance to load for it or shoot it but I can't wait to play with it and see what I can get it to do. Love you videos and info and the way you present it, keep up the good work

[@anthonycampbell1913]

nice. been thinking of 1:9 but doing AI for some extra capacity with 165gr

[@claytonstoolbox]

I have a Husqvarna rebarreled in 270 with a 1 in 9 twist. Accurate!

[@Snailz5]

Corrections for you Ron. The highest weight 277 hammer hunter bullet (their high-bc line) that is rated for 1-10” is the 124 gr Hammer Hunter. With 1-7.5” you can go as high as 162 gr. You know how to find the sweet spot by just doing the calculations for the different bullets at different ranges, but I think 450 should be your long range benchmark for a hunting bullet since that’s your espoused maximum shooting range. I think it would be best to look at 150-300-450 for your comparisons. Fast twist 270 may have a sweet spot somewhere in the 130s, but honestly for hammers it could be the 117 gr. You need to pick the range you want to optimize for and compare the offerings. For example, in 7mm for absolute hammers the 140 gr is about optimal from about 400 and in because it’s about the maximum of “functional ballistics” when considering bc and velocity you get from about 280 Rem to 7 PRC. The bc really drops off on the lighter bullets while the velocities are notably lower in the 154-155 offerings. However, for copper I would always skew lighter. I would rather have a bullet that is worse 400 but can still get the job done while requiring far less adjustment hitting considerably harder at 250 and in because it’s leaving the barrel at 200-400 fps faster. We love to fantasize about that long range cross canyon shot, but optimizing for a shot you’ll be taking less than 5% of the time seems like a fool’s errand. Optimize for the 95% while still being able to get the job done for those long shots rather than the other way around.

[@davidmackee8575]

Cracking cartridge the 270 win had one for a number of years does the job well great video once again thank you Ron 👍👍

[@LarryLMelton]

Ron, I’ve shot the same rifle since the mid-1970s: Remington 700 BDL, 270 Winchester. I initially fired 130-grain bullets since that was the most recommended. However, when I learned the advantage of reloading, I found my most accurate load was pushing Nosler 150-grain ballistic tip, using 52 grains IMR 4350. Providing I do my part, I can shoot ½ MOA. I’ve never had a deer walk or run after being shot. They all drop at the spot where they were shot, and as we say in Texas, DRT - Dead Right There! In retirement, I’ve considered hunting something as large as Elk or Moose. I am considering a new caliber if I am fortunate enough to score an Elk hunt. I am looking at the 300 PRC. Big enough to take anything on this continent and still have the reach for the occasional long-range target. Larry from Texas

[@harryniedecken5321]

Or something closer to 375 or 416 perhaps. There are big bears in those places.

[@LarryLMelton]

@harryniedecken5321, I will ask that you grant this ole fart’s need for pontification in his older age. I perfectly understand the point you make about calibers big enough to hunt a T-Rex. However, you do provide me with a platform to diverge into matters that will generate much talk around the campfire while indulging in your favorite adult beverage. You are correct. A 375 H&H is definitely big medicine. A .416 Rigby is, too, but we are not hunting in Africa, and there is a decided penalty in recoil. The 375 has enough juice to take the largest North American Bear. But, then again, the 300 PRC is not a wimpy cartridge. It is my belief that bears can’t read ballistic tables, neither do they care if you can run the 100-yard dash in 9.1 seconds, nor if you have the ability to climb trees like the most agile monkeys. They have you beat in all categories. If you don't have an adequate firearm, your only hope is to outrun the hunting partner next to you. That said, after a quick search, Dr. Google tends to agree that the ft-lb energy needed to bring down a charging bear with attitude problems is around 2000 ft-lbs. Using solid bullets, the 375 can do that at up to 300 yards, the 416 adds another 50 yards (350), but the new kid on the block can accomplish this out to 480 yards. Admittedly, shooting a bear at 480 yards is not something I’ve heard much of, as most bear kills are 200 yards and under. But a charging bear can cover a lot of ground in a short time. If Mr. Bruin takes an unhealthy interest in the flavor of your backside, the additional range of the 300 PRC would be of great comfort. I have a bad habit of arguing with myself, so let's review. Punching a large 400-grain-sized hole into a bear’s tough body would be very satisfying, but as I stated, this comes with excessive recoil. Firing off one or two shots of 416 Rigby might not put you into traction, but to make use of the 416 superior firepower, you must be proficient with firing this canon. You must practice enough that you are accurate but not so much that you flinch every time you so much as look at the rifle hanging in your gun case. At 75 years old, I’m a bit more recoil-sensitive than I was in my twenties. The older I get, the more sensible my brother-in-law's .243 looks. The 375 H&H is probably the most popular caliber carried by those who often go into bear country, and I suspect you will see more professional guides in possession of this weapon. With far less recoil than the 416, the 375 is more manageable than the 416. Also, don’t overlook the fact that you can find ammunition for the 375 easier than the 416 and perhaps even the 300 PRC. Do you need the firepower of the 375 or 416? I suppose that depends on your comfort level with the difference between the two big boys and the much newer 300 PRC. I used the Serria Infinity program to compare the ballistics of the recommended factory loads using heavy, monolith bullets designed for deep penetration of all parts of a bear. The 300 PRC is a flatter-shooting, long-range cartridge that is inherently accurate and can turn out the lights of any bear. With proper bullet placement, hence the importance of being proficient with one’s favorite smoke pole, I don’t believe even the largest and most psychotic bear can tell the difference between the three cartridges. Dead is dead, and any of these three is more than capable of sending the meanest bear to the land of milk and honey. Again, I respect your viewpoint, and it is difficult to argue against you, so I hope we can still be friends should we find ourselves sitting around the same campfire. Larry from Texas … where the men are men, and the women are not, and we don’t need any stinking pronouns.

[@harryniedecken5321]

@@LarryLMelton Just finished enjoying a friendly campfire style beverage and really enjoyed reading your post. Similar to you, not so young anymore. Also have a rebuilt shoulder from a fall in my 30s. I run into the challenge on my end of living in a state that banned hunting with lead bullets, so a few years ago did a deep dive into what this really meant for my .270 , more or less the same as yours. This affected my thinking a lot, but essentially it meant moving up to a bigger hole for the same result. Probably not what they intended. The funny thing is that there is recoil energy which can hurt, but also impulse which is what I really notice, so a .308 hurts me much more than a .270. The bears that I worry about are the ones that show up 30 or 50 yards away, so reaction time is really not much. This happened to me in MN in a hotel parking lot and it is pretty exciting. Fortunately they were busy with the garage dumpster and I decided that taking it out wasn't all that important anymore. If you get a chance, try testing out some moderate loads ( not max out ones ) in that range. You might be impressed with how smooth the push is. Anyway, you are right and I have become biased toward the need to move up in hole size due to the copper requirements. I do fully recognize that various setups in the. 270 - 7mm - .30 cal variety can perform better, but I just can't mentally justify something unless it is "significantly different " vs just 10-25 % different if that makes sense. Have a great weekend and feel free to stop by for a beverage. Harry

[@LarryLMelton]

@@harryniedecken5321 Harry, I just finished a glass of wine. Not the fancy stuff, which after COVID I no longer have a palette for, but common (read cheap) box wine, which has a reasonable amount of alcohol in it. I'm about to go to bed, but I'm feeling a bit bold (alcohol), so I want to express my all-around favorite close-quarter firearm, which, short of an RPG, has been shown to be an exterminator of all living things, human or animal. I base my opinion on 48 years of carrying a firearm in harm's way. I am a retired police officer, and I have experienced, personally and in death investigations, the power of a Remington Model 870 12 ga. using 1 oz slugs. It is devastating to flesh, engine blocks, and hinges on doors. If I were going into bear country and not hunting bears, it would be my bear medicine. It is a weapon that is accurate out to 100 yards, but specifically close range. I can pump out seven rounds of slug (extended magazine) in short order, and nothing on this continent can withstand that amount of lead downrange. There now, I've managed to bleed my excess testosterone, and I'll sleep well. Larry

[@markabbott4943]

Loved the Win. 270 sence my grandfather gave me his 1958 Winchester M70. If you know, you know. I now hunt with a Tika t3 lite stainless. Love It. I load a Barnes LRX bullet (California). 129 grain, b.c. .463 at 3000fps. Max PBR is 315yards with a 7 inch target. Numbers at 300yards look like this. Drop -2.03, wind 5.18 @10mph 90*, energy 1780 foot lbs. What more do you need? All I know is, I eat good! Thanks Ron for the great content.

[@wisconsinfarmer4742]

yeah. never sell it. it is a heirloom.

[@jamesreese1999]

You nailed it on the heavier-weight bullets compared to the 150-grain loading. The thing people forget is that the job of the hunting rifle is to bring down the quarry as fast as possible. A lighter, faster bullet may be more lethal than a heavier, slower bullet. Drag and wind deflection aren't things that game is concerned about.

[@foubert45]

I suspect browning did this to incentivize bullet manufactures to continue making heavy for caliber .277 bullets used in the 6.8 western. Currently the market is small for manufactures making specialized bullets for only 6.8 western and custom 270s. Having more demand for these 165-175gr .270 bullets might justify them producing more. This also paves the path for other other rifle and ammo manufacturers to get onboard because .270Win is easier to get behind than 6.8 western from a competition stand point. But as for hunters upgrading to something new, if you don’t reload for .270win there isn’t much justification to go out and buy a new 270 fast twist. At that point it’s an obvious decision to upgrade to 6.8 western with higher case capacity and factor offerings. *Food for thought Ron: I don’t think modern hunters care/use the MPBR method anymore. I know experienced hunters like yourself have used this in the past when using fixed/traditional scope turrets without having a range finder. But today I think most hunters now are zeroing in at 100 yards and dialing up for longer shots. In other words I think hunters today would benefit by comparing ballistic charts with 100 yards zeros and more accurately seeing the drop differences between cartridges instead of zeroing each for MPBR. Let me know what you think!

[@jaydunbar7538]

I don’t know anyone who doesn’t use the MPBR, granted I live in the north woods of Minnesota so most people don’t shoot over 100y with long shots being 300 yards. Not much reason to make it more complicated around here.

[@ronspomer4366]

I've considered what you're saying about MPBR, but don't agree that it's no longer valid. Anyone using it can take and make ethical shots more quickly. No need to dig out and use the rangefinder, then dial the turret, then make the shot. Just make a reasonable estimate of range and if you judge your game is within it, aim and shoot center mass. You can always add turret dialing or reticle selection on top of MPBR.

[@danielpray9089]

Thanks for the info on the new fast twist. Wondered for a long time about faster twist 270's. Have an older, push feed M70 270 which came to me directly from the head gunsmith at Winchester after some serious safety problems with a special order 300 H&H. Very, very accurate. Gave it to my older son who later returned it to me when he moved out of country and could not own guns (love wins out). After spending numerous hours at our club's sight-in days for deer season, I have concluded very, very few hunters are capable of shooting at anything over a couple of hundred yards, two hundred at the most, regardless of the new and improved equipment they possess. Many brought long range guns with huge scopes and could barely sight them in at 100 yds. Many were overgunned and afraid of the recoil and noise. Most hunted where 100 yds was long but they still had these expensive long range magnum guns. Why? (Live in the U.P. of Mi., most shots are close, but there are still a number of places locally where shots of 200+ yds occur.) Today, there is too much emphasis on equipment which allows hunters to kill at 500+ yds. This seems to be the case with most of the present day gun writers which too many hunters eat up and think the equipment makes them long range competent. Nonsense! Few can use the fast twist 270 effectively. Is good to have it available for those few though. Can see where the heavy bullets can be a better option on larger game at reasonable ranges taking the 270 up a notch in killing power...at reasonable ranges. Still think the standard 270 is a great cartridge for the vast majority of shooters. I like it. Never let me down. I understand your explanation of ballistics at 600 for comparson purposes, but I believe most emphasis should be placed on the shorter ranges, like the 300 you referred to. Thanks for mentioning ranges most hunters use and are capable of shooting. FWIW.

[@bullgravy6906]

I always wonder why guys think they need a 800 yard rifle for elk hunting when archery elk season is a thing. I’ve concluded that they’re great shooters, and absolutely dreadfully, embarrassingly, laughably bad hunters.

[@duck-n-cover477]

One of the best just got more versatile. Your video, "Winchester in 2021" sums it well. Add the new variety to the market and these awesome cartridges are more amazing than EVER!

[@Accuracy1st]

270 Win, 25.5" Hart barrel, nearly 60 gr Superformance powder, 130 Barnes TTSX, 3380fps

[@ronlowney4700]

😁👍🔥

[@ronlowney4700]

So, is it the Lilija or Hart barrel that you like best? Have you tried Schilen barrels yet? 🤷‍♂️

[@Accuracy1st]

@@ronlowney4700 My first aftermarket custom barrels were Shilens. My first every 1 hole caliber size 5 shot grp was from a 7mmRemMag, 24" #4 Shilen barrel, 150 gr Nosler Btips of a healthy dose of IMR4831. I've had excellent success with Shilens. Both of my 280 Rem have 24" #3 contour Shilens. I don't like any one barrel make over the other if it will shoot to my satisfaction. The thing about my Hart barreled 270 is I can't find anything it doesn't like - all sub MOA

[@ronlowney4700]

👍 Schilen used to work for Hart barrels, so that is why I asked! 😯

[@richardminer1863]

Will never replace my 1925 model 54, best 270 ever made. Nothing but one shot kills on every type of game I hunt.

[@butterbeansbarstool5414]

I'll never be without a 270

[@chriscompeau1952]

Suppressed Remington Model 700 chambered in .270 is my EDC.

[@heinrichstoltz1356]

Agree. There shall always be a .270Win in my hunting setup.

[@GordonKimPrince]

G. Kim Prince, Retired USMC I watched your program on the new .270 Winchester. I've been shooting the .270 Winchester Copper Impact at the range. Using 130 grain bullet, Velocity is around 3000, at 500 yards about 1970, Energy is about 2590, at 500 yards about 1120. I have very good results- low recoil for me (I'm 88 years young). It is true about the rifle you use, my Vanguard shoots my listing. I've shot a Mossberg and Ruger, very close but a noticable difference, the Vanguard was better (I'm biased).I just thought you'd like this info for your records.

[@jmgates09]

Thanks for your service have you took any game with the copper impact yet??

[@GordonKimPrince]

@@jmgates09 No

[@duck-n-cover477]

Thank you for continuing to teach that lower weight copper bullets can perform as equivalent to heavier traditional lead bullets.

[@John-w3v2d]

You can still hand load the 160 grain Nosler Partition in the 270 Winchester. Its a semi spitzer so it will stabilize in the standard 1-10 twist barrels.

[@bobkat1663]

Great Show. Been calling them on this , wonderful news.

[@eduardoolaechea]

What's the point in killing the beauty of the .270 Winchester for getting the performance of a 6.5 Creedmoor? I'd stick to the 130 grain bullets and take advantage of the extended MPBR, which in many situations is more desirable than a slower high BC bullet.

[@ronlowney4700]

🤣 The 270 Winchester will make that 6.5 "NEEDSMORE" eat it's lunch! 🔥 Their is No comparison in either performance or versatility (a wider range if bullet weights), because the 270 Winchester wins every time! 🥇

[@caseymonsen3535]

Ron's analysis of 150 grain 270 bullets versus heavy, high B.C. 270 bullets for hunting applications (focused on energy) at sane distances is spot on. But what if we extend the tale of the tape out a few hundred more yards to see the difference B.C. makes? For my purposes and values, a better comparison to the 270 than new and insanely overbore 27 caliber cartridges is something like the 6.5 Creedmoor. The 165 grain offerings Ron is analyzing for the 270 compare very well in speed and B.C. to 143 grain offerings in the 6.5 Creedmoor. These new 270 bullet bullets paired with fast twist barrels make the 270 Winchester an excellent choice for target applications while taking nothing away from it for hunting applications. What is exciting to me about fast twist 270 barrels and high B.C. 270 bullets is not the difference they can make for the old 270 Win for hunting at sane distances. Ron accurately points out that the difference within 600 yards is negligible. However, it is exciting to consider what the new, high B.C. Bullets can do for 270 Win shooters who want to make really efficient long range target guns out of their old 270s without retooling their reloading set-up. The cost to re-barrel my old 270 Winchester and buy a box of high B.C. 270 bullets is much less than buying a new 6.5 Creedmoor rifle, a new set of dies, new brass, new bullets, and different powders. I submit that a refreshed 270 Winchester is a more versatile tool for a target and hunting rig than a 6.5 Creedmoor. I can now successfully be a one-gun, one-load 270 Winchester man with a bullet like the 165 ABLR. Really exciting! I'm grateful for the 6.8 Western, 277 Sig Fury, and 27 Nosler. I'll never own any of them, but their existence has breathed new life into my dear old 270 Winchester. All things considered, a modernized 270 Winchester sets a higher standard than ever for efficiency and utility. My $.02.

[@wesleyviola2823]

Imagine what the 6.8 western could have been if they loaded it for the entire .277 projectile selection. With the lighter 130, 140, and 150gr bullets it would almost duplicate 270wsm. 200ish fps faster than a standard 270 and very flat. Perfect for deer and pronghorn sized game. Then load it up with the big heavy 160, 165, and 170gr bullets and you have you have a great round for elk, bear and other big game. It really could be the one .277 cartridge to do it all.

[@russellkeeling4387]

I used to be a real velocity kind of guy, but then I hunted many animals for many years and have changed the way I think about external ballistics. I agree with GunBlue490 when he says the sweet velocity is from 2700 fps to 2900 fps and a good sectional density in the bullet for the game you are pursuing. I tend to be able to eat more of the meat with the less capillary damage caused at those velocities. I believe if I can't get within an ethical shooting distance then I'm not much of a hunter. In my opinion the advent of the range finder has made almost all rifles long range shooters if you have any idea of the ballistics of your firearm. You know there has been a lot of people taking up the old 45/70 again and they tend to believe that old pumpkin thrower is a long range rifle and it's pretty slow.

[@Off-target-xy6bx]

I never thought about that but I believe you are right. The 6.8 western if given the whole variety of bullet weights would probably take the biggest range of hunting. Light bullets for even coyotes and the heaviest could probably handle anything that walks in North American. They probably have a home run but only went to first base. I think they are missing the boat.

[@bigdogdjango]

@@russellkeeling4387yer the ol’ sharps was considered a long range rifle back in the day but even with a range finder the trajectory of 600gn .458 bullet isn’t very forgiving and takes a lot of skill to shoot.

[@kurtiscressman9348]

Wow good info. Always wished i could shoot the heavier bullets . Makes me feel alot better about my 145 grains. They got it right along time ago.

[@russellkeeling4387]

I harvested the two largest elk I ever took with a 139 gr. bullet and a 140 grain bullet from a .275 Rigby. It does not have the velocity of the .270 so I'm sure the .270 with take whatever you want with the smaller bullets. My son sure does. The .275 Rigby is a .284 diameter bullet.

[@Megellin]

I have a load for 150 grain 270 win that one of my dad's friends worked up for him years ago. It took them months to customize that load to the gun (Winchester model 70 featherweight), and to this day even when I play with newer powders and bullets for it their load still rains supreme for deer hunting. I can't deny it just has that perfect combo and drops big whitetail on the spot! Sure does kick like a mule in that rifle though, so I would avoid handing it to a first time shooter!

[@trevorkolmatycki4042]

Hey Ron! I honestly think the practical MV difference between running 150ABLR vs. 165ABLR in the 270WIN is more like 100-150fps. You used a 218fps difference by choosing the tippy top 150ABLR MV in the Nosler data of 2918fps VS a conservative guess for the 165ABLR OF 2700fps. I honestly believe that 150ABLR 2850fps 165ABLR 2750fps Are more realistic and achievable in practical terms using good reloading practices like favouring stability and consistency over extreme velocity. Interestingly… assuming these revised values. The 150ABLR reaches 1500ftlb at 530m and the 165ABLR does so at 570m Both with retained velocity over 2000fps. It appears that the only really good reason to go with the fast twist 270 is if you are dead serious about running thee absolute heaviest and longest bullets available for longer range hunting Giant Moose/Elk/Bear. For everyone else hunting mostly deer and the odd elk with the usual 130-150gr bullets… yes, the standard 1:10 twist is better. Cheers!

[@actionjksn]

Boy that Nosler is a damn hammer. I also like that Western.

[@thepracticalrifleman]

From my experience, the 150 gr also had an inflated BC. Still, it’s perhaps the best bullet for a .270 Winchester.

[@jaydunbar7538]

Best is 130, no competition. It’s what it was made for and it shows.

[@ronlowney4700]

🤷‍♂️ It just depends upon what species you are hunting as to what weight bullet you would choose! Both work fine and I have almost 1/2 century of experience with using both! 🤑

[@fjb4932]

I load the Sierra 140 grain Tipped Game King. With a claimed BC of near .500 and damn good accuracy, i think, in the words of Vinnie, "...you'll be more than pleased."

[@ronlowney4700]

🕵️‍♂️ Hummm...well I prefer the 136 grain Lost River J-36 bullet (B.C. 0.650) with Reloader 26, going 3,150 ft/s! At 500 yards, it is still carrying around 2,000 ft lbs of energy! Run the numbers in the Horneday Ballistics Calculator and see for yourself just how good the performance is with your hunting conditions, as a comparison to what you've suggested! 🤑

[@kikbuttowski]

The .270 is a legend, and will always be know as just that. The 6.8 Western is all it has been hyped to be. I love mine.

[@davidking6663]

My 270wby and 270win are of my favorite rifles

[@thomasdaum1927]

A fast twist 270 , well now the 6.5 crapmore is now obsolete !……. Sorry , the truth is not always pleasant !….. Thanks Ron for all your hard work for us !

[@Lexidezi225]

6.5 needsmore is a pos weak ass cartridge. I know plenty of people trying to hunt elk with them

[@thomasdaum1927]

@@Lexidezi225 Exactly , these people bought into the hype and that’s why the pond shops and gun shop used racks are full of 6.5 crapmores ! Oh too soon ?………

[@NomadicHacker.]

I thought this was going to be a game changer.. we often talk about how new cartridges are essentially a fast twist option of an old cartridge. But it seems that might not always be the case. Case design and case capacity matters. Great video as always

[@ronjones1414]

The game changers are the slow powders and the improved ballistics of lighter bullets, best of both worlds.

[@jaydunbar7538]

Case design absolutely matters, we understand how powder burns much better now. Getting a more efficient case gets more velocity from less powder.

[@Simon-talks]

Nothing is really "changing the game" though. Physics is physics and animals aren't being dropped any quicker now than they were 100 years ago. Hyperbole is fun to read though.

[@ronjones1414]

@Jay Dunbar I've tried to find scientific experimentation to demonstrate this to no avail. As would be expected. The case could be a sphere, would make no practical difference and I'm not convinced of even an observable difference.

[@ronjones1414]

@@Simon-talks they are being dropped by smaller bullets and lower capacity cartridges. Over 100 years, the 30-06 150 grain has gained 3-400 fps.

[@mikerichards8400]

Magnificent video, great reasoning, and you are showing us an important depth of wisdom. Thanks.

[@conservativesniperhunter7439]

Well it’s about bloody time someone brought out a fast twist 270 Win factory rifle. The bullet manufacturers have been slow to producing bullets suitable for a fast twist 270 Winchester cartridge. It seems like the rifle and bullet manufacturers have been holding off making rifles and bullets until one or the other started producing them before they also got into the act. I have been wanting someone to make a feast twist 270 win and bullets since the early 1990s. It’s been a long wait.

[@jjgriffin3275]

270 win shooting the 140 SST is Thors Hammer on game!

[@ronlowney4700]

🤣Though I Love my 270 Winchester, the only "Thor's Hammer" on game is the "Thor's Hammer"! How do I know? Because I was the one who was the first to have/invented the "Thor's Hammer" Cartridge! 😜

[@ronlowney4700]

🤠 If it makes you feel any better, I still prefer the "good old" 270 Winchester for hunting though! 🤑

[@donaldanderson3249]

Yeppers I will just stick with my good old 270's

[@ronlowney4700]

🤠 Even if our hunting conditions and numbers are a little different Ron, the conclusion was the same! 👨‍⚖ Good Job! 👍

[@csjrogerson2377]

C'mon Ron. The 270 is never going to die. It is a very good cartridge and rifle combination. The current standard twist rates (1:10) match the current max bullet weights of 150gr are fine and nothing needs to be done. Custom barrels of 1:8 or 1:9 have been available for decades and have been used for heavier 175gr + bullets. Their BCs are good, their SDs are good but the velocities are low (ish) and so they are not quite so flat shooting. Change the case from 473 to 512 and the velocity problem goes away, but there is more recoil and you now have a 270 PRC, or a 68 Western or a 7 PRC. All in the same ball-park.

[@lawrencecardente533]

It's time to fast twist the the 270 WSM and 270 Weatherby.

[@jfess1911]

To really take advantage of a fast-twist 270 WSM, it needs to be in a standard action so more of the bullet can be out of the case. In a true short action the ogive will be limited to a max of .76" as opposed to the .935" of the 6.8 Western.

[@timbjork2098]

@@jfess1911 does the bullet really need to be out of the case more... I would think you just set them in farther ofcourse the real issues is if the contour of the bullet will tell how far it can set back.

[@jfess1911]

@@timbjork2098 It depends on the bullet, but seating longer gives more powder capacity anyway. The problem is the short ogive in the 270 WSM spec that only allows the bullet to extend 0.76" from the case. That is a pretty short ogive, and even slightly shorter than the 270's 0.8". The easiest way around that is to load long, if the cartridge still fits, that is. Some 6.8 Western bullets, for example can have an ogive of 0.935". The 6.8 Western is just a 270 WSM modified to use longer, heavier bullets. When a 270 WSM is in a long enough action, it could use those bullets too.

[@ronlowney4700]

🕵️‍♂️ FYI: "Frontline Rejects" recently did a video on using his 270 wsm and 1 in 10 twist barrel shooting a 165 grain Nosler ABLR bullet accurately (out to 500 yards) with a velocity of 2,980 ft/s! That ought to work for you, right? 🤷‍♂️

[@cyrusbaker6229]

Great information Ron! I especially appreciate the comparisons and data you present in your videos. I think I will continue to be satisfied with my .270 Winchester as is; pretty much the same with my old 30-06. There are a lot of good or even great cartridges out there now, some I have experimented with and shot, but there is no reason to quit on these two "old" calibers.

[@1LonePuma]

It's been my experience with the Win 270 is unbeatable-without destroying your shoulder. There isn't anything in North America, including Alaska. Sure you can get more powerful calibers, but how dead is dead and for less money?! You can keep all your AR'S while I stick with a sniper high end scope. (Leupold Scope) before I gave my 270 to my son, each round was not only in the center of the target, but if the rounds weren't touching-they were going through the same hole. The barrel was fitted to a Mauser bolt action, but not a 98 Mauser action. To get all the specifics on the barrel, I'd need to have my son get that foe me, but as I remember-it was a 26.5 length, slightly heavier than a shorter barrel with 3 lands and 3 Valles for stability to reduce any harmonics. I had about $700+ in the barrel and action, made in Origan and .my fancy Roberts stock machined in the compa y who builds Robert's Stocks. It was something to behold, however, a bit heavy. I'm attempting a second one...Lolo. I could honestly say-one shot-one kill, at any range. That said, I never shoot any game in the heart, it's too messy! I''ve always aimed just below the ear, lights-out!! 👍☺️

[@gk5891]

The first deer rifle I ever bought myself was a rough around the edges Winchester M54 in .270 Win. I definitely have some nostalgia for the old girl. I think it says something that I have a .257 Roberts AI and a .280 Rem AI so I felt the need to improve them. My .279 Win is just the way it was originally designed. That said if faster twist can expand the range envelope (higher BC bullets) and the game weight envelope (heaviet mono metal bullets) making it more competitive in today's market so be it.

[@Lexidezi225]

Heart shot is where it’s at man not much of a mess at all. Unless you like to eat the heart 😂

[@ronlowney4700]

🤠 Yes, Ron, I only want the heavier 270 bullets so that I can hunt Bigger Animals, like Bison and Moose at close range and just retire my 30-06! 👴 I Love the 30-06 performance too, but it really tops out at 168 grains for long range hunting! For that, I would rather use my 270 Winchester and a well constructed 150 grain bullet! As I said in the podcast, the Reloader 26 Website shows that you can get between 3,020 ft/s and 3,040 ft/s with every 150 grain bullet (like the good old Nosler Partition too)! So, you are right, the 150 grain bullet is still the best long range option for the 270 Winchester! 😁👍

[@russellkeeling4387]

I don't really agree the 168 grain bullet is the top for long range shooting in the 30-06 unless your intention is to shoot at animals beyond ethical ranges.

[@ronlowney4700]

I won't shoot anything over 500 yards! But, Nosler also makes the 190 grain ABLR bullet, which is perfect for elk! You may want to give that a try? 🤷‍♂️

[@mikehass2229]

I don't understand the infatuation with having a fast twist barrel. The 270 Winchester case isn't designed for the long high Bc bullets. If that's what someone wants, why not just buy a 6.8 Western that already has a case designed to shoot long sleek heavier bullets. For the average hunter that keeps their shots under 400 yards, shooting high bc bullets and having a fast twist barrel doesn't gain you anything. Now, if you're a long range shooter, then it definitely makes sense. I think the 270 Winchester is perfect the way it is. A 150 grain partition will take any elk or moose with proper shot placement.

[@ronlowney4700]

🕵️‍♂️ Why not the 6.8 Western? Because the 6.8 Western isn't performing at the advertised velocities! The 270 Winchester can come within 50 ft/s in velocity, have 1 more round in the magazine, is cheaper to shoot, and does it with about 5 ft lbs of less recoil! That is a Big reason Why the 6.8 Western isn't selling! The other reason is the 7mm prc! The 6.8 Western is essentially dying as we speak! 💀

[@mikehass2229]

The 6.8 Western isn't doing well because Winchester's marketing team isn't very good, not because it's not a good cartridge. If you are going to a fast twist 270 Winchester, you're defeating the purpose that it was designed to do which is high velocity for delivering hydrostatic shock and quick kills on game. I'm talking strictly from a hunting perspective. I see no need to have a fast twist 270 to shoot high bc bullets. People are too wrapped up in that nonsense unless of course you shoot past 500 yards on regular basis and practice a lot. Otherwise you aren't gaining anything when it comes to hunting at reasonable distances. The 7mm prc will be a flash in the pan too. The long range crowd will jump on it but I'm sure most people who already have a 7mm rem mag aren't getting rid of it for a cartridge that's harder to find ammo for. The Prc cartridges don't interest me whatsoever. From a hunting perspective, they don't do anything that other cartridges don't do that have been around a lot longer. Out to 400 yards which I'm comfortable shooting at, the 6.5 prc isn't better than my 264 win mag or 270 Winchester. The 7mm prc isn't better than my 7mm wsm and the 300 prc isn't better than my 300 win mag.

[@ronlowney4700]

🕵️‍♂️ You "Assumed" incorrectly! I want to shoot the 165 grain Nosler ABLR out of my 270 Winchester at "Reasonable Ranges", at elk, to retire my 30-06 and just use 1 gun! The 150's (Nosler ABLR) is a better "long range bullet", just like Ron said! Be careful what you "Assume", as you were Wrong! 🤪

[@ronlowney4700]

Also, as far a the "Death of the 6.8 Western", besides not performing as advertised, is the popularity of the 7mm prc! ☠

[@mikehass2229]

What exactly am I assuming? You are probably in the minority with wanting to retire your 30-06. Why would you do that anyway? I would want to use every gun I own for something. Explain to me what I'm wrong on since you apparently know everything. I think you are just blowing smoke and are full of a lot of hot air.

[@headless0ptomist198]

A relative of mine built a .270 AI with a 26 inch 1:7 1/2 twist barrel and a long throat back in the 90's when he blew out his shoulder and couldn't shoot his 7 mag anymore, to this day that is one of the best rifles I've ever shot and hunted with. It fed a little funny until he put a Mauser action on it and I don't remember how fast it was but with a 150 grain Nosler Accubond that thing had a point blank range of about 325 to 330 yards with 200 yard zero and would print clovers at 300 yards consistently so if you missed it was 100% your fault. Since he refused to make another one or part with his I'm kind of excited to see where this goes.

[@jmgates09]

How is a 270AI have never heard much about it but for a custom rifle it really interests me

[@duck-n-cover477]

Amen brother! You answered a question on this inepisode 77 :) the manufacturers *sometimes* listen. We have the "rise and fall 6.5 CM" to thank for teaching a lesson about group think and herd mentality about the latest and greatest versus the tried and true.

[@scottstruif3939]

This would apply to your fast twist 25-06 with 134 grain as well.

[@cervus-venator]

Thanks Ron, one of my favorite cartridges. I appreciate the info.

[@ronjones1414]

There are still a bunch of hunters who don't bow to energy and believe the increased mass improves lethality. I say keep your range reasonable and any of the loads mentioned kills things dead.

[@FrednDeeDee]

My deer hunting partner once shot a huge porcupine with his 270 Winchester and turned the critter into 5 big separate hunks of former porcupine. That impressed the heck out of me.

[@Calaveras32Spcl]

Fast twist, with a long enough through, will allow heavy for caliber slugs with a high BC. Make it a good mild recoil alternative to the 6.8 Western.

[@warrengreen3217]

The original 270win was not on its way out and its not going anywhere same as the 30-06 to many are out there and people love them

[@bojik2616]

Bonded ballistic tip? Seen elk stopped cold with a 270 just fine

[@JohnDoe-uc8gz]

Used 270 Winchester since early 80s with PERFECT results on whitetails. With 30-06s, 338s, 45-70, 30-30s etc my 1st choice is my Sako finnlight in 270 win.... Drops deer fast, really fast.... Low recoil for precision shots, flat trajectory and plenty of power... Alot of so called better cartridges have come and gone since the 270 win was introduced in 1925, but I can honestly say at ranges up to 500 yards it gets the job done period....

[@Anthanos89]

Might be a great option loading the tighter twist rate .270 with the longer projectiles made for the 6.8 Western

[@bobjohnson7207]

Good Ol' Browning Best there is Best there was Best there will ever be. Jack was right about the 270 Winchester.

[@funkla65]

10" twist won't work with some of the bullets from the 6.8 Western & 277 Fury, so people insisting "grandpa's cartridge is just as good" are going to have to try this. I kinda think magazine length will be an issue, though, unless they're doing it in an H&H length action.

[@Simon-talks]

I loved Grandpa ;(

[@JTPyrus]

I would take a 150 grain handload from a .270 with a 26 inch barrel over a .308. Handloads are important for the older rounds bc the factory ammunition is watered down. Thats is if you have a modern rifle. I think that 270 will, beat the .308 which is usually chambered in 22 to 24 inch barrels. >270 has more case capacity and could rival the wsm version if loaded with the right powder in a long barrel and compressed a little. Lets try it. I don't have that gun yet, but I will get one of those brownings.

[@cedarhillkennels3252]

Bergara has always had a 270 win in the B14 hunter, I have one, and they still offer it. Don’t know about the faster twist barrels though, but yes, bergara makes a 270 win

[@newerest1]

I wish they made an Hmr 270

[@donaldshaffer5165]

Love my 270

[@jw3946]

I have a 270 WSM with 7 1/2 twist using for target 1000 yard shooting and an almost identical 6.8 Western with 7 1/2 twist barrel. They are both very accurate. The only difference is the 6.8 Western is 12% more efficient. Less powder usage. I expect the same with a 270 Winchester, about 12% less efficient than the 6.8 Western. It will though be very accurate. Good decision by Browning.

[@mdd1963]

There are many starting loads for .270 WSM that perfectly replicate the .270 Win..

[@jw3946]

Absolutely. I love my 270 WSM with a 7 1/2 twist barrel. If a 6.8 Western, 270 Winchester and a 270 WSM have a 7 1/2 twist barrel they all shoot about the same, but the 6.8 Western is more efficient.

[@murphymmc]

I've never owned a .270, I've always been interested in it as I've got friends who love it. The new 6.8 Western has a lot of appeal. It's one of those "you can't go wrong with it" calibers of with there are several. The .277 Fury is a bit of an enigma. Politically driven comes to mind. Most manufactures could make a bolt gun to handle the 80,000 psi pressures without a lot of modification. i think it was a goofy choice and will be changed. They really, really need to talk to the guys in the field more often. Thanks Ron, you always give us good content.

[@shitsngiggles8371]

The 145 eldx at 3000 fps is the right answer. I don't believe the nosler ablr b.c is as high as they claim anyway so those numbers are skewed.

[@CaptainCreampie69]

Companies just need to make all their barrels with a 1 in 5 or faster twist. No such thing as “over stability” unless you rip the jacket off the bullet. Plus you get a tiny bit of extra friction to help slow the bullet down and thus burn the extra powder if you prefer a shorter barrel. What you gain in rotational velocity compared to what you lose in linear velocity is very worth it. Use it with a monolithic bullet like a CX or Barnes tipped TSX or go into the Maker Rex which turns into a small blender blade when it opens up creating massive wounding channels.

[@Simon-talks]

Settle down Beavis, uh huh huh, uh huh huh

[@gregshuttleworth4465]

I have a 1x8 twist 22-250 and no matter what I can’t get 60grain bullets to shoot well. 80 grain match kings .75 all day long

[@bigdogdjango]

I know Brian Litz agrees with you re: no such thing as over stability. However there is a phenomenon I have observed and read a little about regarding the time it takes (read distance) for a bullet to “go to sleep” sort of reach a condition where the amount of yaw induced on a bullet on seperation from the muzzle along with the destabilising effect of imperfect gas flow around it on transition is greater with longer bullets which require faster twists. I don’t know if the same effect would be present with lighter bullets from that same fast twist. What I do know though is that bench rest competitors in the past have biased toward barely stable bullet gyroscopic conditions presumably to minimise this effect on short range precision. But depending on the level of precision required this may not be tangible enough to matter.

[@Gearsofchocolate]

I am SOOO excited to hear browning offer a faster twist rate in a factory rifle!! I am gonna have to most definitely add a 270 Winchester to my collection now!!!

[@whiteyfisk9769]

Yes, how did people use 1 in 10 twists 270s for almost 100 years. What were they thinking. Definitely gotta jump on the latest fad, anything else just wont work. Hornadys marketing team and that idiot on Back Fire said so!!!

[@skippylippy547]

@@whiteyfisk9769 LOL! 🤣🤣🤣 OMG that's hilarious.

[@bigdogdjango]

@@whiteyfisk9769 Whilst funny the backfire guy has also made videos showing that there is little appreciable difference between a 6.5 PRC and .270W out to 600yds. When comparing the highest BC factory offerings. I kind of view him as a balanced commentator. Each to his own though.

[@Hondayo77]

let's be honesty the 270 win 308 and 30.06 arnt going anywhere. Every local ammo supplier has these cartridges on the shelves. They have put more venison on the table than the prc cartridges or creedmoor could dream of.

[@nikos6220]

For Copper bullets this fast twist trend is a potential issue, especially in non-magnum cartridges like the 270 Win. Given that most copper bullets need at least 2300 ft/s to have decent expansion, running heavier copper bullets will further decrease the max effective range on game.

[@ronlowney4700]

But, copper bullets aren't the only bullets made! 🤷‍♂️

[@nikos6220]

@@ronlowney4700 absolutely correct. But Ron is such a fan copper bullets, that it is worth highlighting this potential downside. Those fast twist 270 Win will be awesome with really good led bullets out to ethical hunting distances

[@duck-n-cover477]

Not sure it made much of a difference, but I always liked that Remington and Howa offered 308 Win as 1:10 and Sako/Tikka as 1:11, but Wincester/Browning stuck with 1:12.

[@burrco3086]

Great vids, I've never owned a 270. I'm a 30 cal guy. But great vids!! Much respect learn a lot

[@idahoweez7242]

The .270 is a tried and true caliber.

[@jeffreygraf3358]

While some of these new cartridges are commendable, it seems like they are trying to reinvent what is already a very good wheel.

[@earlchesnut9017]

I agree totally

[@russellkeeling4387]

Firearms manufacturers have to keep selling firearms. They create new trends. Just look at the 350 Legend, it was named a legend even before anyone had a chance to try it out. It may end up a legend but maybe not a good legend.

[@wisconsinfarmer4742]

@@russellkeeling4387 in that way, we're all legends of sorts.

[@9999plato]

If a high rate of twist was the key to Q's new 8.6 blackout it should work well here. I still love my .270 bargain Weatherby/ Howa..

[@bendennis8773]

I came to a similar conclusion a few years ago when i was thinking of having a custom barrel and saw that a faster twist was available in a .277 bore. At the time i was comparing it to the 6.8 Western and with heavy bullets 270 Win cannot keep up. I ended up loading the Hornady 145 eld-x in my existing 270 and it has been a great compromise of decent BC without giving up all the velocity. Now I would be more likely to do a 7 PRC as it is capable of using high BC bullets at moderately high velocities with reasonable recoil. Its really similar to the 6.8 Western but 7mm bullets offer more options and the pronghorn, deer and elk can't tell a .007 inch difference anyway.

[@jmgates09]

True that wouldn't any game tell the difference 7prc is a great cartridge I have one in the cheap mossberg but I like the 6.8 western better wish all the companies would get off they high horse n make some rifles and ammo in it my buddy has one in a xbolt and it might be my favorite rifle I've ever shot but I'm scared to get one cause it's just not getting any support from anyone I don't even see any ammo from winchester on the shelves for it anymore

[@todd0695]

Encourage you to license a copy of QuickLoad and run some numbers. A properly chambered, fast-twist 270 Win is within 100 fps of the 6.8 Western in the long-for-caliber bullets. You'd be hard pressed to find a practical situation where you could tell the difference.

[@gigharborfishinclub989]

Best sensible comparison I’ve seen. 270 was well designed and effective which is why it’s been so long lived. Best for everything? Nope. Effective on most everything? Yep

[@todd0695]

QuickLoad estimates a 270 Win with a 26" barrel shoots a 170-grain EOL in front of 58.8 grains of Reloder 26 (100.3% fill ratio for a COAL of 3.500", which has an ample 0.306" shank seating depth) at 2,962 fps (peak pressure 64,794 psi, just under SAAMI), which will retain 1,500 ft-lb of energy to around 950 yards under realistic autumn Rocky Mountain hunting conditions. I guess that 2,650 fps number on your chart comes off a factory box. But anyone shooting a 170-grain bullet in a 270 Win. is likely handloading a re-barreled or custom rifle (with the faster twist), so they're likely to know enough to load an EOL to a somewhat longer COAL than SAAMI, in a longer barrel (and perhaps a longer throat) that can take full advantage of slower-burning powders. I think your comparison would be more educational if you calculated what a careful handloader can do with the right bullet and powder in a carefully chambered, fast-twist, longish-barreled 270 Win. These numbers make a 270 Win. a terrific long-range hunting rifle and a very efficient cartridge. (Exactly the same story for the 280 Rem with a 168-grain VLDH and a max load of RL-26, same COAL, same barrel length: 2,962 fps retaining 1,500 ft-lb out to 900 yards.) A similar analysis of the 6.8 Western with the 170 EOL and a max-pressure load of 64.5 grains of N560 (same length barrel, same shank depth) gets you to 3,044 fps, 82 fps faster than the 270 Win at the muzzle, at a cost of some extra powder at the same peak pressure. Trade offs? A little less kick from the 270, and maybe you can carry one more 270 round in the mag. Otherwise, as a wizened old gunsmith once told me, "You can hold the difference between those two cartridges in the palm of your hand." I hope more rifle manufacturers will take note and start offering chamberings in faster twist rates and longer throats that cater to long-for-caliber bullets and their attending COALs. And I hope you'll spend more time informing your viewers about the possibilities of re-barreling their 270s to run the long-for-caliber bullets at 1,000-yard muzzle velocities. You don't need a 6.8 Western to get there, just a new barrel and a good gunsmith.

[@jimedick9496]

I’m not re-barreling my 270 Win. I love my rifle the way it is, there’s no way I’m going down that road. So, my love for the .277 brought me to the 6.8 Western. I have purchased plenty of ammo to last me 20 years, and I don’t have to hand load for my 270 Win just to shoot those high BC bullets. My 6.8 Western already does it. So, I have best of both worlds by owning both. I’ll say this, I really do like the short action over the standard. I didn’t think I’d even notice, but I do. Another thing I’m liking about my Western is the weight rifle. It’s considerably lighter than my 270 Win. There is almost 3 pounds difference between these two rifles. Other than that, I love both my rifles. So pending on what I’m hunting, and more importantly, where I’m hunting, dictates which rifle I choose. Half the time I’m hunting the steep canyons in Hells Canyon area, so I prefer the lightweight Western. When the terrain isn’t so rugged, then I take my 270.

[@KingLoopie1]

I was just at Browning's site and you really need to pay attention to the models. X-bolts are pretty much the same action but Browning puts faster twist barrels on only some of the models... The rest have standard twist. Pay syren to the specs for each caliber you're considering! I'm glad they're finally stepping up with the faster twist barrels though! 👍

[@jmgates09]

What models do they put the faster twist in if they put a 1in8 in the 270wsm I would really love a nice xbolt medallion in one but don't want the 1in10 twist

[@KingLoopie1]

@@jmgates09 looks like the LR models, hells canyon, target models and more have the faster twist. The traditional models can have the old slower twists.

[@thomasdaum1927]

Thanks Ron , the figures tell the story ! I feel sorry for the people who sold their 270 and bought a 6.5 crapmore !……

[@aaronwilcox6417]

I own a couple 270win rifles because of logistics for factory ammo and reload components, and it simply works. I could care less about the history or romance surrounding it or Jack O'Conner fella. It simply works and folks who have a nice 270win don't need a PRC cartridge or a new 6.8 western to go hunting. People should instead buy really great footwear, maybe some really great optics and learn to shoot their 270win and let these overpriced new rifles and cartridges sit on the shelf. Don't let these marketers take the hard earned money from ya.

[@reloadingfun]

Ron, im afraid your speculation on the velocity the 270 will have with the heavier bullets may put a nail in the coffin. It looks like you could be off by quite a bit.

[@stefanandermann7864]

The .277 fury is the only true gamechanger in .277 performance. The 6.8 western is a little better, but not enough to warrant trading out. Thanks Ron.

[@ru2yaz33]

Got to remember you have more options on newer powders. Not surprised Browning/Winchester introducing the faster twist rates because of what Hornady and others have done by bypassing the 68 Western with they're line of PRC ammo.

[@jmgates09]

Hornady needs to get off they high horse and make a 170 or 175 eldx for the 6.8 western that would be a bad bad boy

[@jaydunbar7538]

@@jmgates09 hornady will as soon as there is sufficient demand for them to make the investment, and thus far Winchester and browning have seemed to stop pushing the push for it so why should hornady do their job for them.

[@Magnum_Express]

I've always wondered why 270 bullets topped out at 150, but now I'm thinking the ammo and rifle makers knew decades ago that the 270 win just didn't have enough speed to take advantage of longer bullets even if they did give it faster twist. Sometimes when it ain't broke....

[@bullgravy6906]

I just got a pre64 .270 and it’s beautiful. And recently I acquired a browning hell’s canyon speed in .30-06, 1:8 twist rate. It is a bad mofo!

[@daithi1966]

Great episode. I'm a fan of the .270 Win and the old .30-06 Spfld and walnut stocks, but if I were buying a new rifle today then I'd have a hard time not going with 7mm PRC in a tupperware stock.

[@kindsir2734]

Hi Ron, I also punch numbers regularily...not really overly impressed with the modern chamberings and fast twist barrels. I am impressed with the new powders and bullet lineups. The .270 wcf, the 150 albr pushed by Reloder 26 is an elite round anyone can shoot well and importantly, works well with a 22" barrel. A repeating mountain rifle should not sport a long barrel, not in this sheep hunters arsenal. Been there , done that for nearly 45 years now

[@chillingout8854]

Love the .270 win. Had a tikka t3 in .270 and it loved the 130 gn Nosler BT bulets. Now there are higher BC bullets for the .270 im tginking about purchasing a Browning Western Hunter Long Range rifle. 24 inch barrel with a 7 inch twist 😊 Be nice to try and work some loads with some nosler 170 grain BTs and the 165 grain accubond.