Is Flesh and Blood TCG Too Expensive?

[@fabledacademy]

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[@HeavensMandate8040]

Sure 3 command and conquer is 300$. In yugioh the chase 3 of will be 150$ each on its first reprint and 30$ on its second. Ive been playing my command and conquers for 3.5 years and theyre still 300$

[@Possu81]

LSS has done great job sustaining the values of mostly precious cards like CnC and we haven't seen any kind of crash. Game like this can't maintain collectibles value well so the value must be preserved somewhere.

[@supercrg2766]

I think that in Flesh and Blood there are two types of people: those who want a healthy community to play and have fun and therefore believe that LSS should ignore the secondary market and make the game more accessible to as many people as possible through reprints of staples, and those who only care about their own personal gains. They want to crush newcomers in armories with their competitive decks that cost close to $1000, accumulate cards to speculate on, and want a secondary market with ever-increasing prices so that their spending (this is a game. It will never be an investment) is always positive and they don't "suffer" from the devaluation that a reprint would bring to their Codex of Frailty set, which, for example, was bought for $300, but with a good reprint would be worth $100. The game is wonderful. It's a shame that its growth potential is being destroyed by the LSS itself, which I feel has already chosen which side of this story to support. Seriously, why not let a newbie use some proxies against your tier 1 deck in an armory? "Oh, it's forbidden." Why don't you just lower the power level of your deck against that opponent then? The studio doesn't care about maintaining a healthy economic environment and many players don't care about each other's fun and community growth.

[@lucasbalog7440]

I am a French player who has been playing since Monarch, I went to the World Cups in Barcelona and Osaka, I am putting together a pimp Ira deck, I am what one would hardly consider a whale and yet I find the game is overpriced. The game is becoming more and more inaccessible, the prices of staples are piling up and increasing every year without any desire for a reprint on the part of LSS, it is unacceptable that CnC is not a reprint in a booster draft in M ​​version all this time. The price of sealed products also increases to the point of asking 120€ for a display of HNT and extremely random ratios, a friend at only 11 M in a case of ROSA, without L, F or Marvel... Not to mention the fact that you find the displays a few months later on sites like card market for 60€ resold en masse by wholesalers which makes the market untenable for LGS... My community went from 12 to 15 players at the start of the year to 6 this fall and we have two players who are going to leave, one on Sorcery and another who is moving to Spain.

[@sgtisbjrn5925]

I think its fine. We can have a game like this for competative adults. Not every TCG needs to be reprinted to the ground, reprinted into spongebob, or have no to little value. This is a nice place for us who like this, for every one else there is a ton of TCGs. I just started playing last week and bought a full competative Ira deck.

[@olivecat2139]

as a new player and living in brazil (where flamescale furnace/tunic rn is almost a minimum wage salary) yes its quite expensive and is what stopping new players to pick up the game

[@wolfiethehusky5062]

I think the price is definitely an issue but it wouldn't be as much of an issue if there were more resources talking about playing flesh and blood on a budget or more stores running lower power events like sealed, draft or commoner more often. Also Lots of other tcgs have similar pricing for cards that rotate out much faster, just look at yugioh players paying 120 a piece for multcharmy. I don't know if flesh and blood has that much of a pricing issue compared to other tcgs when you look at how staples stick around when they aren't game breaking

[@RatPackTXC]

That doesn't work. I tried running commoner for my local shop, only for it to be ruined in three events by a Bulllander deck. No one could brew up fun, new stuff. Now it won't even fire anymore. The player base is what keeps new players out of this game.

[@aesirloki4833]

​@@RatPackTXC100% on you with this. Casual events dont fire and most of the playerbase wont showup (or the regulars at least) Heck, even players dont want to play Blitz anymore... and we have a big scene in my city

[@RatPackTXC]

@@aesirloki4833 I think the game is headed towards its downhill phase. Design is getting sloppy, they're putting things into the game people don't want to see, some cards are in desperate need of a reprint. Enigma super stall winning worlds was a pretty good indicator of the times to come.

[@mcjovies36]

Not enough casual play/alternative cards to replace expensive cards. Like in mtg you can have a pretty powerful commander deck for $100 or less using cheaper alternatives and getting creative. Also commander is super casual so you can proxy for expensive cards if you want and that’s totally fine if that’s okay with your play group. Whereas in FaB it looks like you NEED those >$100 equipments and generic cards to actually be considered competitive. And if you use any cheaper cards, you’ll likely never be able to win in a tournament. As far as proxying, you can’t do that since the entire FaB gameplay is centered around sanctioned games so you need to own those expensive staples.

[@IndividuumNot]

comparing a competetive tcg format to commander is absolute nonsense though.

[@mcjovies36]

@ true but I’m saying the only option in FaB is competitive so there’s no way to make it “cheaper” unless people started to adopt more casual play so players can proxy or create decks that aren’t super over powered and instead just fun to play against

[@sgtisbjrn5925]

@@mcjovies36 Good cards will always be expensive. Having expensive cards also helps LGS/LSS with people buying displays. There are a lot of competetive alternatives you can play competativly at your LGS. If you are taking FaB as a serious compteter you will need to travel, rent hotels, etc, so a 1000$ deck should not be a big issue.

[@aesirloki4833]

​@@IndividuumNotNo its not. We can make parrallels with MtG and FaB, even tho they are different, they are still trying to appeal to a similar customer/player base. MtG has a competitive side and a casual side, mostly comprised of EDH but also other formats. FaB is striclty 1 type of format. Competitive. I said 1 type and not 1 format, because theres CC, blitz, LL, etc. Even at armories level, you can play casually. Ive tried, nobody shows up or everyone builds the top decklists they find. We were promised PVE and UPF, it barely gets any support in cards, hero nor products. Life happens and people dont want their hobby/game to be an expensive chore on top of everything else.

[@aesirloki4833]

​@@sgtisbjrn5925But youre still talking about a competitive players market. There is no incentive for newer players to test the waters without going balls to the walls end goal of having a tournament deck. There is no "casual" decks, only temporary lists before you can aquire the upgrades for the deck.

[@melineeluna]

It's a TCG. If it's not infinitely reprinted to keep the secondary market price down forever, it is too expensive. Every TCG is too expensive. Game pieces costing over hundreds of dollars is absurdly limiting for competition. The business model demands that it will become too expensive.

[@Mezha07]

And at the same time scalpers and long time fans who spent so much would probably complain if they kept reprinting it's just a sad thing in TCG's honestly

[@Blutyr8]

I would argue that the only TCG that isn't expensive currently is Pokemon. Every TCG is too expensive in my opinion. It's simple really - if you like a card game, you'll buy the cards. Same with every other thing in this world... However, noone can argue that a cardgame that isn't growing in popularity won't be more and more expensive.

[@jeansebastienmarx2754]

By far its one of the most expansive tcg out there.

[@kitkat4892]

Ive played the majority of card games, i think theres a whole class of card in fab that are 20% inflated in value. Commoner is the format my play group has the most for, but would love to see more heroes that are capable without generics. Generics have such high value cuz theyre eternal and compatible across heroes! Just too expensive, need cnc around 80 😅

[@jams9023]

As a new player to Flesh and blood and have playing all the other tcg's flesh and blood is uniquely expensive for new players. The increase in competitive nature in the game runs prices so high and the lack of reprints is so dry that getting into it is extremely hard. Other trading card games have reprints and if anything it brings more money directly into the game studios hands. LLS can and should make changes to their reprint policy if they care about new players getting into this game.

[@themisvoul1045]

it is the most cheap game for new players, it is expensive to play competitive. Most drafts you pay just for the price of the packs not extra as we see in mtg, lorcana etc. Armories are cheap, many blitz and CC armories you play for free and the atmosphere is much better, you are not just going to lose and leave with your intro deck as it happens in yugioh mtg. Also cards don't become worthless after 2 years as in most games. I have 10000 mtg cards, cards form the 90s, over 2000 rare-mythic-foil etc and the cards with an individual value above 0.20 are less than 20 in 10000. Also you can buy boxes for as low as 55, what is expensive with that?? You don't need the 1000 cost Uzuri deck to play the game.

[@Mezha07]

@@themisvoul1045 you're right it's cheap for the commoner format and entry, but expensive in competitive but what happens if your lgs is already at a level like that for being competitive and the same few guys just keeps dominating or winning because they have a more invested deck than the others, in our lgs prizes or the packs are given as snake draft or only the top few in which case i feel so shtty because it feels like i'm just helping them get packa since the entry covers the packs being prized as, i just want to play the game and the players at our lgs just wants to play with packs on the line instead of casual at this point i'll keep my deck and be casual and just never join, and if i don't join and other people start to not join then the game dies cause they won't have enough to even play, it's sad but fck it feels bad if the top people keeps winning with the same deck, and if you're like me who fell in love with a hero or class that has been so sht for the past year i feel like i'm just contributing my money for the top players to get first dibs on the snake draft or packs, ngl the amount od money is pent on entry i could've just bought myself a case or a box fck it feels so shtty

[@themisvoul1045]

@@Mezha07 that is happening with all tcgs, in FAB is not so intense and you can keep your main deck and keep practicing for a longer time. in mtg and yugioh you literally cant play the game most of the times.

[@Mezha07]

@@themisvoul1045 ye it us happening at every tcg no matter what their model is and honestly it kills more communities than you might think 60-70% of the people i use to see no longer comes at our lgs because a select few dropped high investments on meta top tier decks that the "You decide your own fate" factor isn't there anymore meaning the same guys keep winning they get the extra packs and prizes that everyone payed for and everyone else feels sht they keep spending to literally bot gain anything, I already started selling of my pile, binders and promo cards, i'm slowly peacing out of the gam and will only keep 2 of the decks i really fell in love with despite them being sht, tpp tiers and meta be damned it felt bad honestly, when the mega is just constantly sht and when you try to buy cards to counter it only for them to switch to another Top tier OP class then i feel like investing to counter the other deck became a joke because no you're telling me to reinvest to sideboard against this other deck, i'm not even interested of going to proquest or those kind of events i just genuinely wanted to play the game casually and locally with a kick to it but nah we get hammered

[@bengenesis1989]

Unfortunately from my experience with the community after 1 year. Competitive is the "only" way to play this game. Nothing wrong with it, but I feel that anyone coming in to play should know that the general community is min maxing the game. Take it or leave it

[@kimakashi]

yes

[@IndividuumNot]

compared to other sets... thinking about it... id rather have the market and reprint policy like it is in fab than in mtg for example. yes, it is expensive to get a fully competetive deck. even though the difference compared to other tcgs isnt insanely big. mtgs modern format always had decks event way above whats listed in this chart. sometimes standard is fully of expensive decks and the moment you dont play one of those fotm decks, you could also just be playing a precon. same end result. the entry level is by far way more convenient in FaB though. you can buy a 5-10€ blitz or 30-50€ armory deck and if you feel like invest maybe another 20-50€ to upgrade a couple of cards so that your hero can actually do his "thing" more reliably and start having a ton of fun. you cant do that in magic the gathering. except very niche cases where a format has a super cheap metacounter deck. that deck will most definitely rotate out or drop down in viability and most of not all of the cards you invested in are pretty much worthless / the investment is "lost". in FaB you will be able to "recycle" most of your investment. that is the big selling point to me. you can use some of your equipment on other heroes/decks or even classes and the generics are always universal. even if your hero might end up in living legends ("rotate out" of the classic constructed format) you can sometimes make use of those cards at a later point once they release a "fixed" version of that hero. bottom line: i wouldnt be sad if cnc´s etc would be more affordable but not in exchange for the health of this tcg. making chase cards easily accessable for everybody would most definitely mess with the game because there wouldnt be any incentive to crack open booster boxes anymore. which means lss would have to create other incentives to crack packs. like doing it the hasbro way and give us extendedborderalternateartspongebobcracklefoil treatments to chase after. so yeah id pass on that.

[@themisvoul1045]

as a guardian player I hate that the whole class is based on Cnc and that they don't reprint it or that they are not creating better cards so that these few expensive generics become more cheap but is not the end of the world. You only need the 500-1000 cost deck if you pay to play in big CC events, otherwise it is not necessary.

[@Mezha07]

@@themisvoul1045 it becomes necessary when your LGS mostly have players with those 500-1000k decks then anything less would never be fun or competitive enough

[@themisvoul1045]

@@Mezha07 by your many complaints I am not sure you understand the design of the game and have any experience on the worst ''big 3'' gameplay games. How you spend your money is different that the game design, I personally have a collection that at any time worths more than the money I have spent and even though I rarely play the game, I always can get 1 or more wins, without having an expensive deck.

[@Mezha07]

@themisvoul1045 in my personal opinion i think just being in a 3rd world country like ours is a disadvantage most of the people who play here usually play enough for just a cheap format and are either students or young adults, so when some people who have bigger disposable comes bringing domineering decks it just pushes away the casual community the lgs used to have, not everyone's the same whether you managed to build a convenience deck that can front up to those Metas, it just happens and as much as i have complaints we already just accepted and, we just walk away when they ask to play for packs if they want to play casually dure but when they ask for tournament play 60-70% passes out and walks out that's a sad sight to see

[@aesirloki4833]

Ive been playing since the end of Monarch before ToA. FaB is 100% and expensive game to play. The game has, of course, a competitive aspect, but there is no casual aspect apart from maybe commoner. Armories are always competitive, even when the promos are meh and even then, when its a more casual setting, people dont come because the incentive is not there for them. The competitive decks are for the most part very expensive and the reprint of the major cards are very scarce and underprinted. CnC should be 50-75 top. Weakest link is from one of the most recent set and is waaayyy too expensive. And that for the generics. Generics are too scarce for a market that really wants them. Talented equipement also tend to be too expensive and not very useful until they decide to reprint a hero that plays it. Example : Furnace in Dromai/Fai. Was crazy expensive untik Dromai rotated. Shot up when Hunted was Spoiled but were not sure the new heroes will play them. My point is that if the game focuses too much on the competitive market, it will lose many customers/players because its too expensive, too competitive and not worth it for the people that just want to have fun at armories when everyone else is bringing fine tuned top tier meta decks.

[@huggybearrapgod5920]

My name is a little softer, but you can just call me huggy if you see me in the future 😊 -hugi

[@fabledacademy]

I hope we see us in the future, maybe at Calling Prague :)

[@huggybearrapgod5920]

@fabledacademy I will be there in london! 😊

[@ultimaterare3146]

LSScmade commoner for a reason and they support it! No TCG has to be expensive

[@TemporalDelusion]

I was considering making a move to it, but it has an extremely small playerbase here, all who are fairly deeply invested, so even to start it would cost me as much or more than starting a more "premier" TCG that has the popularity. I'm still interested in the game, but I'm not interested in "investing" into all this crap of dubious actual value. It's kinda ironic really. I hate that cards get constantly devalued in a game like yugioh with a cycle of expensive cards getting their value destroyed over and over again. Maybe that's the reason I'm so averse to joining another game with this kind of cost, even if the cards hold value for now.

[@danjomik83]

The game isn't expensive, Warmonger's is too expensive.

[@LightBringer88]

Yes.

[@ezmacnsteeze]

Yes

[@ZippSoloTCG]

by the way bro runick stun is not even $185 like $100 if that, MTG depends on the format Standard is like $60

[@btookie350]

Didn’t this guy post a video just a month ago complaining how he lost tons of money “investing” in FaB because the sealed boxes and singles he bought cratered in price over the last couple of years? Seems pretty self-contradictory to complain FaB is too expensive for players while in the same breath complaining that prices are crashing… Other than 1st edition WTR, ARC, and CRU, ALL other sealed FaB products are selling for below MSRP. You can buy 2-5 year old sealed boxes for below MSRP (significantly so in many cases). Name one other Tier 1/2 TCG where you can buy old sealed products for less than MSRP. Instead of buying singles, buy sealed and pull those single yourself. Here’s a thought experiment: if LSS reprints these key cards in new sets, guess how much each booster box is going to sell for? Yes, close to MSRP! Whereas there is abundant supply of old sealed boxes containing these key cards for sale for LESS than MSRP. So what exactly are you asking LSS to do? Print specific chase cards to demand and sell them a la Magic’s Secret Lairs? For those asking for massive reprints, just take a look at Force of Will or the Sorcery debacle right now to see where that leads. You keyboard warriors aren’t the ones who’re going to be suffering the financial consequences of your suggestions. FaB is growing in popularity faster than ever and the LSS team is doing a fine job steering the ship.

[@fabledacademy]

I never complained that priced are crashing and that is why I lost money. To be clear here: I changed ways how I think investing should be done right and what percentage of my collection I want to be in speculative TCGs. Regardless of FaB being the second most expensive TCG it is still my favorite. Prices crashing for collectors and being to expensive for new players to join the competerive scene are also two very different things and nowhere near.