Is Gollum Truly Evil? | The Tragic Story of Smeagol | Lord of the Rings Lore

[@matthewanderson9754]

After as long as gollum/smeagol had the ring, which holds stupidly incredible evil power over any who hold it, I think the fact that there was even a piece of smeagol left was more than incredible!

[@markonovak130]

He is a tragic character above all else. When I think of his friendship with Deagol, I'm reminded a bit of Merry and Pippin. If fate would have it, what happened to Smeagol could've easily happened to one of them as well and it makes me sad. He was at the wrong place at the wrong time. He is many layered and complex character and one of the best written in the series. And that says a lot. Whether you decide he is evil or not is up to you. Even Frodo wanted him dead before he actually saw the creature and had pity on him. Hell, even Samwise on Mount Doom spared him after seeing what the Ring did to him, even after all of those betrayals.

[@josephippolito1402]

Truly tragic

[@davida.2947]

I think your comparison of Gollum to a drug addict was very spot on. It’s also of note that the name is very close to the word golem which is also appropriate. In addition I think that Gollum is really sort of an almost parody and stand in for the majority of humanity. If the Fellowship is the high good in the story and Sauron and his army represents the ultimate evil, Gollum stands in the middle, where most of us are, somewhere between grace and depravity.

[@StephenDixon-sy1xo]

He is the best example of an addict I have ever seen!!!!

[@rustydaboyrobot]

The real issue is that Smeagol sees himself as GOOD...and he easily justifies his actions....or hides away from his most evil impulses.... Which splits his personality. Smeagol can REMAIN GOOD and can be a tragically misunderstood victim. Gollom is the place his evil thoughts and behaviors get hidden inside....and as those evil actions mount, Gollom gains in strength and control. When Smeagol MAKES Gollom go away, we start having a hope of redemption...but that is a facade. Gollom can be put away for a time with pure force of will....but Smeagol is also not innocent. He has a desire for the ring. That same desire drove him quickly to murdering his best friend....way before the ring would have had more than a SUGGESTION of influence. Ultimately, this duo personality is used to aid Frodo, where a normal evil character could not...and bite the hand that befriended him because of obsessive desire and hate....also aiding Frodo...though unintentionally. So, Smeagol is evil....somewhat as a Cain. Gollom is more focused, brave, and accepting of that evil that Smeagol possessed...and was morally ok to use it...or immorally ok. 😇

[@hudsonball4702]

Smegol was already a delinquent by the time Degol found the ring. He had been known to take food and was already a known thief on occasion. He was already partially ostracized from his village. This is why his only friend was Degol who was also a bit of a troublemaker in his own right. This is why Smegol was so easily corrupted by the ring's influence.

[@nathanielhellerstein5871]

Gollum's fall into the Cracks of Doom wasn't entirely accidental. Earlier Frodo ordered Gollum. on the power of the Ring, to die if he, Gollum, were to harm Frodo. That happened. So Gollum was ultimately victim of the mind-controlling Ring; and the Ring destroyed itself; and Frodo did not avoid corruption by the Ring.

[@papabird4425]

Very clever!

[@ingloriousbetch4302]

That could be why Gandalf said to not kill him. Had he killed him straight away, the ring would likely not be destroyed, and frodo would've "fallen" so to speak unless Sam would've been able to harm his friend to destroy the ring. Or Frodo would've harmed Sam.

[@kekero540]

Frodo did not curse him the ring itself did it said not to lay a hand on it less he be cast into the flames.

[@TheCretanRunner]

It could be that the Ring commited suicide. As soon as it was back in Gollum's/Smeagol's hands again, it said to itself: "oh no, not this freak again for another 500 years. F* it, i had enough, i'm gonna jump. I can't take this sh* anymore!"

[@josephliddle309]

If not for Smeagol Sam and Frodo would not have been able to get to Mordor. Without Gollum, they would not have found the hidden stair to sneak into Mordor. Then at the edge of Mt Doom, when Frodo momentarily gives in to the evil power of the ring, Gollum bites the ring off Frodo's finger and falls into Mt Doom, thus destroying the ring and Sauron's power, and saving Frodo incidentally. So it is clear that his role was to bring about the chain of events which defeated Sauron and saved Frodo as well. Thus Smeagol& Gollum are tools in defeating evil, even though they are evil themselves. Gandalf discusses this in the book. It isn't brought out in the movie very much.

[@scottaaker5534]

This is a really good channel. Thanks for making these, brother. Cheers

[@ericharkleroad7716]

Tolkien believed that everyone was redeemable, Gollum was not redeemed but was redeemable. Likewise, Tolkien was keen to point out that most people are neither completely good nor completely evil, even Melkor was not evil at creation, I think he would find the question odd and missing the point.

[@williamstefens]

Definitely tragic, and like all, he carries both good and evil within himself. It is interesting that being related to the hobbits he was so quick to want to take it from his companion Deagal when deagal first found the ring, whereas Bilbo just kept in his possession, but didn't seem to have any initial yearnings for the Ring. And when Gollum was blocking his path out of the mountain, rsther than kill, as Gollum may have done in desperation, Bilbo simply jumped over Gollum.

[@MrJamaigar]

Lots of humans in Tolkien's world are easily corruptible. Some even more so than others. Being closer to men, the Stoors may've been seen as "the black sheep" among hobbit breeds. No wonder Smeagol was nastier and more malicious than the average hobbit.

[@kristinestout1170]

It is said, "Go not to The Broken Sword" to answer a question, for they will say both "no" and "yes".

[@Alice_Tiburcio]

Smeagol is my favorite character of the series. Gollum is... interesting. And I do see him as 2 different characters, so 2 different answers to the "is he truly evil" question.

[@tylermacdonald2894]

Truly a Jekyll and Hyde type of character. Both smeagol and gollum have become dependent on each other for survival. The addiction is the ring and both use 'immoral' actions to get it back. Smeagol is weak but worm like, able to get close, gollum is the one that will get the job done

[@Twiceborn_by_grace]

The artwork at 9:51 looks like snow elf as they are turning into a Falmer from the Elder Scrolls. 👍🏾👍🏾

[@Thaumh]

Physiologically, my favorite version of Gollum will always be the Rankin/Bass one. The idea that The One Ring could transform a Stoor into an anthropomorphic cave newt in "only" 400 years has always impressed me.

[@redtailarts101]

I believe Smeagol was never a good hobbit, and I don't really see him as entirely separate from Gollum. Smeagol is not a good person because of how fast he succumbed to the ring. I believe the factors in determining mental strength against the ring's influence are will power, awareness of what it can do to you, and kindness. How much these each matter is depending on particular behaviors the ring may cause a person to do. Awareness of what it is can stop a person from ever putting it on, or at least choosing to cast it away. Will power can also stop someone putting it on, and choosing the powers it grants over sanity. Kindness can stop someone from doing despicable acts just for the ring. Smeagol quickly caved and choked Deagol to death just to have it. Bilbo had the ring for decades and never once hurt anyone. He normally wasn't threatened with losing it, yet in the first film he only almost attacked Frodo for it, after so long being under its influence. He quickly recognized his outburst was horrible and told Frodo to keep it out of his sight. Frodo also resisted its power for the journey, and didn't kill anyone just to have it to himself.

[@ethanmillward675]

Yes, I’d say he was evil, though not irredeemably so. He committed several murders throughout his life, including eating babies, among other things. He also got corrupted by the ring really fast. No one else murders anyone else for the ring, much less so fast. I think the real tragedy of Gollum’s story is that he’s in a position where he could be redeemed and is going down that path but he ultimately chooses the path of selfishness which leads to his own destruction and nothing else

[@Dr_Cole]

Over 20 years ago, I completed my PhD in Clinical Psychology. That is also around the same time that the Peter Jackson LotR trilogy started coming out and I read The Hobbit and LotR. Therefore, I view Sméagol through the eyes of a psychologist. Although I am not a Freudian psychologist, his initial reaction is akin to the id taking over from the basic ego. The id is not evil, per se. Rather, the id simply helps a person get what they most want without consideration of consequences or social mores. I think we can see both an incredible pull from the ring on Sméagol as well as some likely impulsive personality which existed beforehand. However, once Deagol is murdered my Sméagol, the psychological framework turns to psychopathology - specifically, what we used to call multiple personality disorder (not referred to as dissociative personality disorder, but the name is not important). Gollum became critical for Sméagol to live. He needed a way to blame the murder on something other than Sméagol, so Gollum was born. He needed a way to justify his lust for an object over his family and Store tribe. The loss of his grandmother’s love and protection was certainly Gollum’s doing. Phase two of his transformation is now complete. From here, Sméagol needs a way to survive on his own, doing things like eating goblins and other intelligent creatures likely unthinkable before the ring came to him. Gollum would keep coming out to take on these roles, thereby protecting the innocence Sméagol believed he still imbued. For most people, we all have “defense mechanisms “ - ways that we cope with difficult life events. I overanalyze and intellectualize (real hard to imagine, eh? 😜). These are developed based on when our first real traumas occur and our psychological sophistication at that time. Sméagol was likely not very sophisticated when he murdered Deagol and thus he compartmentalized his negative traits. The extremity of the ring’s power and his self-perceived terribleness of his actions made the compartmentalization take on an extreme form: multiple personalities. They knew what the other was doing (or did) but, Sméagol especially, felt helpless to take control from - or stop - Gollum. This is what Sméagol needed: a protector that was absolutely in control when the situation called for it. I believe that, more than simply a manifestation of his id, Gollum was the protector and survivalist that Sméagol needed to preserve Sméagol’s young and innocent identity. This is why children who are abuse victims or experience a horrific event sometimes develop multiple personality disorders- it protects their innocent identity while doing what it also needs to survive. Now, could Sméagol be “saved”? I believe he can, as most psychologists believe that we can help even the most traumatized patients. If we didn’t, we likely wouldn’t have gone into this field. That said, two critical things needed to happen: the ring must have been destroyed and he would need to live long enough to have the time to work through all of his trauma. That later part might be his downfall. We saw how quickly Bilbo aged after letting go of the ring and then after the ring was destroyed. Even if there were great therapists with the skills to heal such psychological disorders at the time, it would take years. Therefore, I believe it’s possible but I am not sure if it’s probable.

[@2.Panzerdivision]

The addict comparison is spot on.

[@altareggo]

Wow!! The last time i was this early for one of these delightful Build Me an Army Worthy of Mordor videos, Ungoliant was just finishing eating the light from the Two Trees!!

[@TheBrokenSword]

😂😂😂

[@VTdarkangel]

Gollum/Smeagol wasn't irredeemable, but he was corrupted to the point where any redemption he could have would still end in his destruction. The only difference would be the manner and choice of his destruction. If Smeagol was a little bit stronger, he would likely have jumped into the crack of doom deliberately instead of clumsily falling in.

[@djb9267]

He is not purely evil. He was just in a bigger Plan from eru, i believe

[@aaronboyce6743]

Great video and content yet again.

[@TheBrokenSword]

Thank you so much 🙏

[@AdvancedEdition]

2:22 i dont know why i laughed, but i surely did haha

[@TheBrokenSword]

I’m glad someone did 😂😂

[@markallen2984]

The very fact that Gollum/Smeagol is in conflict with himself indicates that he is NOT a purely evil character. However, just because he is not purely evil does not mean that he is redeemable.

[@joeyroot9519]

Gollum is a reflection of the Human Condition that we all live. Props to Proffesor Tolkien for showing that through writing.

[@kein_indianer]

Evil, he is, if you ask me. Gandalf's mercy concerns two things. First Smeagol as a being and second and of utmost importance his rule and connection to Sauron and the Ring

[@punkypinko2965]

What I want to know is how Gollum defies gravity when he climbs down a steep cliff head first without gripping onto the rocks?

[@bettys_dungeon_adventures9197]

i think he started as a generally good but flawed character which the ring took advantage of to entice him into killing his cousin for the ring. However, I think if his good side hadn't been so strong from the outset his personality would have been completely turned to evil. instead, we see his psyche split in two, BECAUSE the good in him was so strong, especially considering the thousands? of years he was in possession of the ring and under its thrall.

[@cantsneedgaming4591]

I thought it was only a few hundred years

[@BellaCahill]

I think this was spot on. I also agree with you, that gollum is evil and Sméagol is not.

[@LHelms]

Just another recovering One Ring addict.

[@TarMody]

The One Ring corrupts Sméagol's soul, and we see the reflection of Sauron's personality traits in the parallel Gollum character he created. This actually provides a good example of the nature of the effect the One Ring has on an incarnated being. A similar situation would have been likely if Isildur had used the One Ring for a long time like Sméagol, or had the One Ring chosen Isildur as a bearer. He wasn't actually a bad character in my opinion. Because of the One Ring, Gollum's soul (like Frodo but more than that) was badly damaged. If he could go to Valinor after the destruction of the One Ring, chances are he could be corrected, but it is possible that he died before this healing process, as he was of mortal destiny.

[@kevinmoore4845]

Tolkien always articulated the fact that the ring ensnared Smeagol. No one starts their day wanting to kill their friend or be exiled from their family. Gollum paid for his evil.

[@random22026]

Very astute, in depth analysis! 🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌

[@TheBrokenSword]

🙏thank you!🙏

[@random22026]

@@TheBrokenSword 😌😌🙏💌

[@patriciaariley5810]

Gollum aka smeagol saved middle earth.

[@therakshasan8547]

The oath sworn to By the Ring is what threw Golem into the cracks of Doom .

[@evilchampionyeah1691]

''Azog sent me here'' keep up with the vids guys! Love it

[@CaptainUnusual]

I like to think that Gollum's death was semi-intentional. Almost like an addict who overdoses on purpose. He couldn't not take the ring, but once he had it, maybe part of him saw the opportunity to do good by destroying it.

[@jamesburgess8097]

If Gollum did NOT die, and the Ring was destroyed, would Smeagol have mostly returned to being a Hobbit again?

[@chucutitan]

He killed even before he possessed the ring. Bilbo possessed the ring then Frodo and Sam but they never moved to harm another hobbit or other being. Gollum was evil.

[@benbarklow1645]

I don’t think he or anyone else is truly good or truly evil. Like Gandalf said, even the very wise cannot see all ends. We all have both light and darkness inside us.

[@richewilson6394]

I'm more curious as to what would have happened if the ring was destroyed and he still was alive. Would he still keep on being himself or would he just die from the shock? I like to think that him falling into the fire was a way of purifying his soul so that he could join the afterlife in peace.

[@MrMortull]

I imagine that he would experience the same "lifting of a weight" that Frodo did, but it would be a painful and horrifying experience for him; there was little left of his mind that wasn't entirely bound up with the Ring. I imagine an emotionally incapable, spiritually numb creature barely able to move himself to any action. I also imagine that Frodo would take him home to the Shire, where Smeagol would partially recover and they would remain confidantes as the only two people in the world who could truly relate... my real doubt is whether or not he'd be able to find any sort of peace in himself, possibly by accompanying Bilbo and Frodo on the last ship to the west.

[@papabird4425]

​@MrMortull yeah, he'd probably just starve to death devoid of purpose and drive.

[@ixiairisborne1695]

I think that, were it a case of the ring going rolling over the edge, Gollum would have jumped over after it, either as an act of suicide or because he was *so* close to getting it back after years of its absence and he just couldn't even think straight enough to realize he would be jumping to his death.

[@ixiairisborne1695]

To more aptly answer your question, I think that he'd go on being Gollum, possibly even becoming worse. He wasn't simply performing the will of the ring; after all, he was separated from the ring for decades, IIRC, while Bilbo had it. I think, if there was any change, he'd become even more bitter and hateful because They destroyed his Precious. If he found his way back to The Shire, he'd probably spend the rest of his life murdering hobbits out of overwhelming spite.

[@stitch3163]

Tragic character without a doubt. He was very sensitive to the ring’s power and killed Deagol as a result. He succumbed to its evil and lived a very, very sad life. I have always felt sad for this character.

[@ianheins650]

Nice work dude

[@krwj0717]

If Frodo had been strong enough to destroy the one ring as originally planned. Would Smeagol/Gollum have been offered a seat on a ship leaving middle earth. Since he was a former bearer of the one ring.

[@aratus1622]

Good question. I wonder if the offer would apply all who bore a ring of power?

[@denisedesireeannaneumann9804]

I think he would have died soon after, since the ring extended his lifespan in an unatural way. I do not know how long a Hobbit can live to be honest, but I am sure over 500 years are definitely too much. The movie depicts this by showing how fast Bilbo suddenly starts to age after Gandalf took the ring. At first he wanted to explore the world, but instead he had to take a rest since it was not possible for him anymore to walk a long distance.

[@jeffsnyder7290]

Peter Jackson did a wonderful job of showing the inner conflict of Gollum/Smeagol by presenting it as if there were two separate beings, so it's tempting to think of 'him/them' that way. But there is only one. Smeagol's evil nature, which was there before the ring, was then amplified by it, consuming him and ultimately taking control of his personality. Frodo's tenderness and mercy (plus the fact he possessed the "precious") resurrected memories of Smeagol and allowed some sliver of decency to emerge. In the end it was Eru-Illuvator's Will that Gollum's doom was to play his part in the destruction of the ring, and free himself in the process. It was the only way he could be saved.

[@riclemus5353]

Bilbos age quickly caught up to him after leaving the ring to Frodo. Why didn’t the same happen to smigol after losing the ring?

[@loraelstad8941]

I think the age process only began catching up to Bilbo in the absence of the ring, but not super rapidly. It took a decidedly quicker jump in age after the ring was destroyed. I feel like if the ring is still out there after you’ve had it in your possession, yes it’s effects that gave extended life would begin to slowly fail, but the addiction to it would remain a driving force. I think once that property the ring has, in desiring always to use beings to help it return to Sauron, was gone from the world entirely, THAT’S when all its preservation would suddenly completely stop, sending time hurdling back to claim those it had touched.

[@maylabrown4584]

The reason Bilbo's Age Progression was more rapid than Gollum's is due to the fact that when Gollum possessed The One Ring it was not "active" as opposed to the time of the Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring where Sauron has been actively looking for it causing it's effects to become stronger and due to Bilbo's length of time possessing it during it's "active" state caused him to have a far heavier relapse than compared to Gollum. Were it not for the inner strength of Frodo as both a Good Person and a Hobbit, as well as Sam, both of them would have ended up succumbing to it far, far faster than either of them combined.

[@kekero540]

@@maylabrown4584Sauron had always been looking for the ring though. You could say that the ring would have been wailing reaching out and grabbing anything that could take it to its master. Unfortunately for the ring if found a creature so full of self hatred they refused to seek power and hid under Moria for a couple centuries.

[@maylabrown4584]

@@kekero540 Sauron was not looking for it to the extent he did before the Fellowship left on their quest, during the time it was with Gollum it was dormant for centuries and only left him once Bilbo came around. It still laid dormant with Bilbo until decades later, a little bit before Bilbo would leave, it had awoken and Bilbo started feeling the effects of it. That's why when he gave it up, he had rapidly aged by the next time Frodo saw him. Gollum had been under the Goblin Town for some time and if the Ring had been awake in any great capacity then it would have been signalled some suspicious from the Goblins above who would spiritually be under the dominion of Sauron.

[@ct1600a]

I dont know if he was completely evil or not, but I think your comment about addiction is the closest. He had the ring for a long time, and it really twisted his mind.

[@robertcoplin2830]

To some degree, Gollum/Smeagol exists in all of us.

[@Bringmeoneofthosechickens]

Have you eaten many babies lately

[@uglybob7505]

Not evil as such.......a product of some bad luck unfortuantely......bless him.

[@ixiairisborne1695]

Prompted by other comments, I'll make an addendum: As for redemption, if Gollum survived the destruction of the ring and Mt Doom, and there was anyone around willing to put in the effort, any redemption would take as long, if not longer, as the time he was enthralled by the ring. So, someone, likely Gandalf, would have had to decide to have him as a creepy little pet for the next thousand years, slowly helping Gollum excise all the harm the ring had wrought upon him.

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

John Garth has suggested that the character of Gollum carries echoes of the "night-haunting, man-eating" ogre Grendel in Beowulf.

[@paulcindyzimmerman6131]

Regarding how quickly Seagol killed after finding the ring, I think the ring was particularly vulnerable for corrupting. It had been lost for a many centuries. It wanted to be found. Deagol and Smeagol were unfortunate to find it leading the ring to rapidly take over. I believe others would have also been affected.

[@lewisbull891]

I agree it's not an easy straight forward answer and it's some ordinary addiction,, the ring holds evil power over whom ever holds it as is pointed out by Gandalf. The ring was intent getting back to Sauron and purely using smeagol.

[@runswithmooses87]

Personally I think Sméagol made up the personality of Gollum. as a way to alleviate the guilt he felt from time to time. Sméagol didn’t kill his cousin Gollum did, Sméagol didn’t try and kill the Frodo in spider web Gollum did. It’s away for Sméagol to explain away his guilt to himself. And like it was explained the ring can not give idea’s only bring to the surface what was already inside. And I get the idea Sméagol evil/dark thoughts where not as buried as for down as people like to think. Good evidence of this is Bilbo even though he resisted the ring it still brought dark thought to the surface and Frodo too.

[@simondalton3726]

Sméagol rolled a 1 for his saving throw when saw the ring. 😊

[@2.Panzerdivision]

Gollum/Sméagol is the patron saint of all broken characters for a reason.

[@coreyfro]

Did Smeagol throw gollum in to mount doom? Are we certain that he didn't play a part in the final struggle?

[@caseynash9729]

Andy Serkis did a great job playing Gollum/Smeagol. As for evil it took the most willful to resist the Ring.

[@idanshemesh-rn3wy]

As you suggest, the answer to the question whether or not gollum is a truly evil character is simple and it is a yes. On the one hand you are right, smeagol wasn’t evil, but the way the ring influenced him over the years led to a point in time that his very existence has become dependent on the ring. I believe that one if not the main ideas behind gollum, was to demonstrate to readers how evil and undeniable was Sauron’s power

[@Huskytabby]

What-if video idea for you to do: What if Gandalf never fell at the Bridge of Khazad-dum and continued with the fellowship to Lothlorien and on forward?

[@sdragonfly5549]

"The Woodmen said there was some new terror abroad, a ghost that drank blood. It climbed trees to find nests; it crept into holes to find the young; it slipped through windows to find cradles." The answer is yes. The One Ring grants power according to one's nature. Smeagol already had the capacity for less than moral behavior in him. So even the Smeagol side was corrupt from the off even if Smeagol also had that spark of hope for redemption. He was too far gone to be redeemed and sneaking into cradles, killing innocents, there's no saving that kind of being. Also one can argue that it was the influence of the ring that corrupted him. Fair enough. But elves were corrupted by Morgoth and twisted into Orcs. It's not their fault that they were corrupted but they are still dangerous and evil.

[@josephmizzi24]

The ultimate fate of a redeemed character in literature can vary depending on the author's intentions and the genre of the work. However, in general, a redeemed character is one who has experienced a transformation or change of heart, often overcoming personal flaws or moral failings, and has made amends for past wrongs. The fate of a redeemed character can take many forms. In some cases, the character may be rewarded with happiness, success, or a positive outcome, such as finding love or achieving a long-sought goal. In other cases, the redemption may come at a great cost, such as sacrificing one's own life for the greater good. In tragedy, a redeemed character may meet a tragic end, often because of the character's earlier actions or because of circumstances beyond their control. Ultimately, the fate of a redeemed character is often determined by the narrative arc of the story and the author's thematic intentions. A redeemed character can serve as a symbol of hope, demonstrating that redemption and growth are possible even in the face of great adversity. Alternatively, a redeemed character may highlight the consequences of one's actions and the importance of taking responsibility for one's mistakes. Since Sméagol/Gollum is not given the chance to redeem himself and is 'accidentally' killed off by J.R.R. Tolkien, without making amends for past wrongs, not taking responsibility for his mistakes, etc., then we must consider him to be truly evil, notwithstanding the unintended 'sacrifice'.

[@Twiceborn_by_grace]

Cicero (from Skyrim) : Let’s kill someone! Gollum (not Sméagol) No, we brings them to her, Precious! *Gollum Gollum*

[@granthudson5447]

When Smeagol defeated Gollum "go away and never come back" I think he never went away, it was a good path, but wasn't until frodo tricked him at that pool with Faramir. seagol could of turned and any point if Gollum can use that situation to influence Smeagol. In the early days Smeagol might of already had his split personality Gollum he was already weak minded.

[@doyle_the_warlock]

Bad or Good we all agree he a great character.

[@jamesharmer9293]

Driven mad by the ring. He's schizophrenic. Two different personalities in the same body. Sam catches a glimpse of this when he sees Gollum/Smeagol talking to himself in two different voices.

[@GaiusMarius65]

My interpretation of his good/evil nature comes down to how much and how easily the ring corrupted him. Sméagol’s first act upon encountering the ring was cold-blooded murder. He went on in that vein for centuries. Bilbo’s first action was to show Gollum mercy when he could have easily killed him, and even after decades with the ring his basic personality had not devolved like Sméagol’s had. Sméagol was at heart a narcissistic sociopath and the ring simply made use of that and twisted those traits to its own ends. He was evil at the start and in the end he was entirely irredeemable.

[@ThatMainframeDude]

Gollum was the hero. Frodo & Sam would never had made it without Gollum's help. Frodo gave into the ring in the end and it was Gollum (by accident) who destroyed the One Ring.

[@xaviotesharris891]

If Smeagol was corrupted by mere sight of a shiny gold ring before he had even touched it, he came to that equation clearly and easily corruptible, and worthy of little pity. I mean, just a little enough pity to give him props for OD-ing on it, basically, and saving the world.

[@DutchLabrat]

There is also the Judas paradox. Like Judas Gollum was essential for the resolution and influenced by a godhead to do what they did. If Gollum was placed in the world to play this role by Manwë himself to play this role like a hired actor then where was own agency? And without agency where can there be guilt?

[@michaelsmyth3935]

An uneasy Yes, on being evil. The One Ring had a murderous effect on him immediately. He was jealous and greedy before his Cousin found it.

[@user-yd7me7ns1o]

I was taught, do not believe what people say, but what they spend their time/money/energy on. Smeagol was redeemed when he took the one ring from the corrupted Frodo, and tripped by Eru Ilúvatar into the fires of Mount Doom. - He did not need to want to destroy the one ring, he simply destroyed the one through his actions, even if it was by accident. Thus the hero of The Lord of The Rings was Smeagol when he destroyed the one ring, Frodo was revealed to be the villain and needed to continue seek redemption afterwards.

[@miaththered]

Much like Mairon, every single time that Providence gave him a chance, he chose evil. Thus is the power of the ring. The wielder always chooses evil, even when they are good. It twists their vision into a vile parody of whatever they held dear. Even small dreams like those of hobbits are corruptible and don't forget, he was a thief before he was a murderer.

[@davidsmith1310]

When Gollum said 'and we mustn't let him (Sauron) have it (the ring)' was it because he wanted the ring and knew he could never get it off of Sauron or was it because he knew what Sauron would do with it and didn't want it to happen?

[@BrianEthridge-wg6ko]

Anybody messed up enough to develop a split personality is going to be pretty well irredeemable in a situation like he's in. They didn't have psychotherapy and he would never be trustworthy again no matter where the rain was there or destroyed or not. That's directly why his split personality golem was made to be able to make the hard choices to get what he needed because smeagol could not. Golem personality would do whatever the hell it took to get what he wanted and stay alive.

[@1002Ecaps]

Going by scene in the movie Smeagol wasn't good person before the ring. He immediately kills his companion over the ring. Ring couldn't corrupt Smeagol that fast; he was already a dangerous psychopath.

[@blueandluna2627]

I think Sméagol might have been told or ordered something by Sauron when he was being tortured. I reckon he was told to stop Frodo because he make an appearance right after they tell you about his time In Mordor

[@lisacook8235]

This portrayal of Smeagol as an innocent puzzles me frankly. He had only to glimpse the Ring in his friend's hand and he murdered said friend to get it. He hadn't possessed the Ring at all; it had no time to work on him even remotely as with Boromir; there is no mitigating factor here. True Smeagol probably would not have murdered Deagol for an ordinary piece of gold; nevertheless that he responded so instantaneously to the Ring's lure with homicidal violence speaks volumes and places him near the other end of the moral spectrum from Bilbo or Frodo.

[@MrMortull]

I think it's a bit of a copout to draw a hard line between Smeagol and Gollum... the full split between the two identities is a brilliant piece of cinema interpretation but is just that: an interpretation. Smeagol is heavily dissociated, but still fully aware of Gollum's actions and bears the moral/psychological consequences of them (which goes some way to explaining Gandalf's view of him). That said, would I call Smeagol/Gollum evil? No. He isn't evil, just a weak-willed victim dragged down a path of corruption and destruction by a power he didn't have the courage or will to resist... much like Grima. [edit] A bit of pure Tolkien Theology just occurred to me: Smeagol, corrupted as he may be, is NOT one of Morgoth's (or even Sauron's) creatures. By definition as one of the Children of Eru, he *always* had a choice and was *always* redeemable. The good professor himself repeatedly waffled back and forth on whether or not even ORCS are entirely evil, and apparently increasingly leaned more and more towards the idea that they're hideously corrupted right down to the bones but still not completely beyond saving.

[@DBat-sp1tp]

Tolkien was truly brilliant in having Gollum/Smaegol go down with the ring rather than have Frodo destroy it. Smaegol got his precious back and Smaegol was released from the grip that the ring had on him. I don’t think it could have happened any other way.

[@punkypinko2965]

Why didn't Gollum become a powerful dark lord since he had the ring for so long? I thought everyone became powerful who possessed it? Why didn't he wear the ring? Why didn't he become a Nazgul? Why did the ring affect hobbits differently than everyone else?

[@Draconisrex1]

Corrupted and conflicted. Tolkien did a great job with the Gollum/Smeagol character.

[@BMBKA1977]

I would say Gollum Smeagol is totally corrupted by the darkness of the one ring and Eru Ilúvatar delivered him in the and of that darkness as the tool that brought the one ring out of existence!

[@leemcgann6470]

Everyone has some darkness deep inside.

[@christianv7177]

I thought the Gollum Game was canceled. I hope wtill releases. Looks like a unique and thrilling stealth game

[@gillianlovell9578]

Release date is May 25th

[@jensphiliphohmann1876]

I don't think Sméagol is inherently evil but he's definitely selfish above average. It's mind-blowing how quickly he is corrupted as soon as he first sees (!) the ring Déagol has just found. It takes something to murder one's best friend because one covets a precious what he just found. I wonder if it could have happened the other way around, Déagol killing Sméagol because he didn't want to share his find.

[@DazDillingerCox]

Azog sent me here!!!!

[@legionarybooks13]

No one being is ever absolutely good or evil. Sauron, and even to an extent Morgoth, did not start off as evil. Gollum / Smeagol is perhaps the most "human" character in the entire saga, as he is the most conflicted and flawed. In Tolkien's letters, he states that NO ONE could have ever willingly destroyed the Ring. In the end, it broke Frodo, after all. Surprisingly, Tolkien actually blames Sam (who he considers the "hero" of the story if having to narrow it down to one person) for Smeagol's failed redemption.

[@kaidorade1317]

I wonder which one of the “two” entered the Hall of Mandos: Gollum or Sméagol?

[@rhysowen830]

It's a Jekyll and Hyde situation but there wouldn't be a Hyde if Jekyll didn't have evil in himself. Same for gollom and smegol. Gollom wasn't the one who killed his cousin the evil was always there. It just manifested with time and guilt and loneliness

[@svengvg]

Azog sent me here!

[@komah7909]

I'm thinking that (If Tolkien made a heaven or hell in LOTR) that Smeagol's manipulative side (Gollum) went to hell, while Smeagol (His good personality) went to heaven. Because I'm thinking, if Eru Illuvatar is supposed to be a mimic of God, then he would be a little merciful towards the tormented creature. That's just my thought.

[@comesahorseman]

He was a product of the Rings' influence.

[@kitsunekierein7253]

If you think about it from a drug addiction perspective, gollum kinda overdosed in the end....

[@wensier1413]

Azog sent me here ❤❤

[@joedelafranier278]

After 500 years he has no clue how to redeem himself and both entities are nearly opposed to each other.. But like all beings we have both good and evil.. but we are short lived not nearly the " eternity "of 500 years none of us can imagine what that would be like .. Do not judge or be judge by others

[@jimbombadill]

Gollums most horrible act most be that he actually took human babies from cradles and ate them...and that was when he had lost his ring. The murder of Deogal can be somewhat explained due to his desire for the ring but killing babies cant. A problem with this video is that you actually seemed to talk about movie Gollum and not the book version...the huge gap between evil and "good" Gollum is bigger in the movies than the books where its more suttle and of course much more well done.

[@CrookedRosePOD]

In active addiction rn smh but ima bounce back though. Hes not purely evil it should be easy to show especially in Tolkien's world lol he would be at the very bottom if so

[@fred20097]

In the video, broken sword asserts that Smeogal was good-natured and friendly before he came across the ring. Where in the literature does it say this? I don't remember coming across it, but that doesnt mean it doesn't exist. I thought that Smeagol was quite evil already. Neither Frodo nor Bilbo murdered anyone straight after they came into contact with the ring. So i always thought smeagol was pretty nasty from the start.