Is It 'Morally Disturbing' When Charter Schools Skim Highly Motivated Families?

[@lordruxlinhogie5912]

God forbid that dedicated and enthusiastic parents be rewarded for their efforts.

[@MandoFettOG]

This viewpoint reveals their Marxist viewpoints to the public..

[@illbeyourmonster1959]

@@MandoFettOG and the whole basis and operation of their game play.

[@brianschwatka3655]

@Sudhir Kakar OMG are you serious they have a term for it now?

[@crystalnichols7224]

@Sudhir Kakar All of their nonsense has gotten me remembering a short story I read about a dystopia in which people with any talent were fitted with various kinds of handicaps, to keep them from being any better at anything than anyone else. "Harrison Bergeron" I wish every person in our country would read this story. It's a sort of ridiculous illustration, but so much like the direction the left is going right now.

[@nathanjessup5044]

@@crystalnichols7224 I remember reading that in my class and having my good freind, a lefty get unreasonably upset about the plot of the story. He knew instinctively that it was semi anti left. It was the first time I think he ever did anything in class that confronted his belief system. Good story man

[@hiramesensei3112]

"Skim"? "Morally disturbing"? Public schools do not have a right to your children. Your children have the right to seek the best education possible.

[@honeybadgerisme]

Hirame Sensei public schools Do think they Own the children...! And the right to ignore their needs, ignore opportunities to challenge and nurture, and keep their what-almost $8k per day? They just want the warm body.

[@inalaska1208]

Amen! otherwise what you're saying is Rich parents are allowed to choose where their children go to school they can choose to go to private school but poor kids you must go to the public school that we want you to go to you have no choices.

[@franklyanogre00000]

In Alaska umm...no. poor kids can learn however their parents and the law allows. Libraries worked for Lincoln.

[@DieselRamcharger]

motivation and hard work is evil. shame on you.

[@MandoFettOG]

Only a communist lefty would ever suggest that your excelling children are a public good to be used to better the crappy school they go to...

[@thewhistler71]

How dare the poor work hard to lift themselves out of poverty! They should just accept their place for themselves and their children.

[@michaellowe3665]

Was this a quote from Mother Theresa?

[@passingliaison]

It's the argument being made by people who oppose charter schools, especially the ones with high expectations. It's the same mentality I grew up seeing and hearing during the 70's, 80's and 90's where anyone who was a minority trying to better their lives were seen as "sell outs" or told they were "just trying to be white" by studying and/or seeking success. And when they did become successes, having well paying jobs, etc. were told they "forgot where they came from." All are variations of a "know your place" kind of thinking.

[@Bodge18]

Exactly! If they improved their conditions they'd be wouldn't be good, obedient union-supporting welfare reliant democrats!

[@ellisewalton8701]

@Will G Not everyone in Baltimore is black and not everybody black is the same. If everybody black was the same black women wouldn't be the most educated group in America. You might not even care about school yourself because your statement was ignorant.

[@Ouchthathurt843]

@Will G You're a backwards racist sack a shit, so your opinion is biased. You probably wrote that with zero care and just googled shit on the internet. What a scholar.

[@jnoone3246]

Why do charter schools do better? Huge reason, the deck is stacked in their favor. By the nature of admission to the school: the parents of these kids actually give a damn. At least enough to go through the trouble to get their kid in. You're eliminating the parents (and kids) that treat public education as a free daycare service. The fact that these kids parents engage at least to some degree is a huge benefit to students' success.

[@planbenterprise]

J NoOne One active choice is all that separates public school students and charter students. One. Active. Choice. And all the violence, idiocy, laziness, thugs, addiction, and apathy is left behind.

[@VivaGabe209]

Completely agree! What it also does is keep the bad apples from influencing good kids to become bad kids.

[@skylanh4319]

Nobody denies that. Pro charter people believe that these parents deserve a good school to take their kids. As public schools claim you are stealing resources. But that is not true. You are taking away the kids that are easy and don't need help in order to pass their standard. Public schools create average students. It helps some of those who struggle and holds back those who would be exceptional. If all schools were charter style then you could place students by their abilities. Creating new methods for those struggling students while allowing the motivated kids to reach their potential. I think a big problem for kids that are behind is that they are embarrassed and so choose to not get involved, ask questions or even try. Instead they sit in the back pretending to just be to "cool for school". They would do better if everyone was close to their level. I struggled in language and so throughout my entire education I NEVER participated in outload spelling test, reading, or answering questions when called on. Luckily my parents were very involved and so I learned most outside of class. But a lot of kids don't have that parental support and never learn.

[@coletrain5667]

People who would abuse a privilege like free public education are morally reprehensible.

[@ferraridav]

J NoOne yes, that's the point. Good parents shouldn't have to watch their children suffer just because the majority of people in their school district are shitty parents and couldnt give a damn. The public school system has devolved and gone from education --> daycare --> indoctrination camps.

[@johnpalmer5131]

I find it profoundly ironic that we have a political party that is for a women’s right to choose while the same time opposed to a parent’s right choose with regard to their child’s education.

[@paulcolburn3855]

Here is how I can explain it. For the democrat party, the feminist imperative is fundamental. And the cardinal virtue of the feminist imperative is the right for a mom (and the mom alone) to murder their own unborn in the name of choice. The feminist imperative is all about freeing women from personal responsibility. Now these charter schools demand a huge amount of personal responsibility, the level of which feminism would never expect of ordinary women. Not only are ordinary women not capable of this level of responsibility, only the "leg up" given to a woman by way of her patriarchal husband does she have any chance to attain this level of responsibility. Because the charter school counts on the contribution on the part of a father and (most importantly) a husband, it runs contrary entirely and utterly to the feminist imperative. Therefore, charter school self-selection of the most committed parents runs contrary to the dogma of the democrat party.

[@illbeyourmonster1959]

@@paulcolburn3855 Beyond that is the reality that charter school tend to have highly capable people as the children parents which means they are not easily railroaded by school politics based bullshit. I've been told to my face by public school officials that if I didn't like a school rule, that didn't actually exist in writing as they were presenting it, to get a lawyer, as they full well knew I couldn't cost justify it. Now had I been some rich well off parent pulling in lawyer in would have cost them dearly because their accusations were that transparently weak. Point is the pubic school knows through first hand experience just how far it can go with who and not have any meaningful push back done to them for it. Some kid has rich capable parents so they get held only to the writing rules all agree to and no more. Some kid from poorer family, well, not so much. X is a rule break, but unwritten Y and Z is close enough to X to count (but not for the kids who parents can fight back legally) so your kid gets kicked out for a week on a unprovable guilty until proven innocent claim made by the school, despite the fact they can't actually actually prove or disprove any part of it and more of their own argument is self defeating than self supporting. I hate it. I hate all of it.

[@paulcolburn3855]

@@illbeyourmonster1959 : What devil did your kid do such that unwritten rule Y or Z gets him kicked out for a week? And why are you "defending" your kid's shenanigans? If the school wants to suspend your kid for a week for breaking an unwritten rule, then YOU (as the parent) should be insisting that your kid OBEY that unwritten rule. You can hate it, but rules are rules (even if they don't apply to all people equally.)

[@QuelDroma366]

The right to choose is just a slogan. In every other area, they want you to be stuck with the one option government provides.

[@michaelmcchesney6645]

I'm a Republican, but I had a very favorable opinion of Corey Booker right up until he ran for the Senate. Overnight he switched from being a supporter of charter schools and school choice to being an opponent. He needed/wanted the support of teachers unions and that was the price. That was his real chance for a Spartacus moment. But he flipped and lost my respect.

[@Soldierboy54b]

"Where do we get the right to treat anybody's child as a public resource?" (16:15)

[@duncankelly3232]

My thoughts exactly. These unions care nothing about our children.

[@ysdom]

Or that their potential should be stymied because too much potential is a negative for those that aren't afforded the opportunity due to lack of effort.

[@george_cantstandya]

jay well it’s tax code not law and only mentally underdeveloped serfs look to the tax code for their rights. Dumbass.

[@DrCruel]

If you exploit children for your own personal profit, they're a resource.

[@harukasatou1359]

@@DrCruel Like how Marxists and Commies do with Money they didn't legally earn or have a claim to the usage of.

[@dxthnxgglesux]

When you listen to his arguments of single parents can not compete it reinforces the fact that we need families to stay together. The war on family is in large part to blame.

[@ShirleyitsJohn]

Nah, as a person who had an abusive father I'm pretty glad my mom had the sense to get me and my brother out. It was tough for all of us, but she busted her ass to ensure she could provide for us. The problem is people not owning the decisions they make and learning to adapt however necessary.

[@dxthnxgglesux]

@@ShirleyitsJohn So all families that separate are due to abuse? Oh wait no, they do not. Single/teen mother hood, party culture, boredom with ones partner, bad partner choices (bad boy/hot chick), government reward for being a single mom, the list goes on. Nah....

[@ShirleyitsJohn]

@@dxthnxgglesux I don't see any part of my comment that states that's how all families split so not too sure how you reached that conclusion... My comment was in reference to my own situation and to provide an example that the cause of a single parent is much more nuanced than your overly simplistic view of the matter.

[@PAS2010D]

@@ShirleyitsJohn anecdotal stories don't defeat the main point. The destruction of the nuclear family has and always will be about control and the downfall of this nation.

[@4zafinc]

@@ShirleyitsJohn The agreement high correlation of single household children getting involved into crime shows your situation is more of an exception than norm.

[@marklittle8805]

God forbid we punish people who want their kids to succeed so all those who send their kids to be warehoused and not give a damn?

[@marklittle8805]

Well that is it. And the people critical of this want the system to reward those who don't give a damn with more attention. At some point, people have own the failure of their kids. The system should do it's best to reach kids, but quit pretending all the kids are equally motivated

[@STDRACO777]

All this is doing is making it clear that the school, the parents and students are all critical into making students succeed. Many schools allow students to get away with murder thereby making it hard to concentrate with ill-disciplined students, teachers that give up and parents that have never played a role in their children's lives. Recently in my country, the sjw's screamed in delight that affros of any size are allowed in the front of the class. They refuse to see its about abstracting vision for the other children in the class. They also cheered when the pass rate was dropped to 30%. As expecting more then 30% of children is white supremacy.

[@Macheako]

@@spooderdoggy dude....i dont disagree, but come the fuck on, the SYSTEM you are a part of ABSOLUTELY effects your ability to succeed!!!! Its literallly why we join organizations that work, and leave ones that dont. A 'system' has two man inputs. The laws and the citizens. Those are the 2 single most impactful thing in ANY fucking society!!!!!! If our laws are broke then we will be soon to follow!!!

[@Macheako]

@Sudhir Kakar Fuck you. I fucking said the laws were broken. YOU HAVE TO DEBATE ME YOU SLICK SON OF A BITCH!!!!! :P LMAO You can't just TELL ME they're not fucking broken you moron!!!!! 😂😂😂

[@Macheako]

@Lagarto Verde you aren't part of this discussion.....so why don't YOU figure it out, mmmkay?

[@dariusthurman8835]

Parenting matters

[@rcolorado2364]

I think this argument boils down to this idea. Public schools and charter schools are just a babysitter your children will learn according to the parents expectations. Which means parents MUST engage.

[@coolguy-xd1bg]

wrong. parenting is nothing compared to genetics and random environmental influences (diet, friends, uterus).

[@skylanh4319]

Parent involvement is huge.

[@rcolorado2364]

@@coolguy-xd1bg lol great argument. Wrong! Way to show your on the high side of normal.

[@mkjirges5405]

@@coolguy-xd1bg of course that plays a factor, but nurturing parents create a far better environment for any child to succeed, regardless of ability and personality.

[@activistgranny2.066]

I went to Japan in 7th grade and went to a military dependent school. I came back to CA after one year and was 2 years ahead of my grade. I hated school in CA it was dull and boring, catering to lowest common denominator. I am grateful my granddaughter gets to a go to a charter school.

[@suleskos.2743]

My (20yr old) daughter had the advantage of a private school education through 8th grade. Her high school education was a wake up call for us both, not only because of the lack of expectations but because of the politics that were brought into the classroom as personal vendettas by some teachers, and she went to the best high school in the best district around. Last year in first grade my son was reading at a third grade level, for three reasons; He was very bright right from the "get-go", I always read to him regularly and a lot, he had a superior kindergarten education. That education was superior because his public school teacher was superior. He is now in 2nd grade, unfortunately at a different school. He had twice as much homework in kindergarten than in first and second grades combined. The expectations are so low its ridiculous. He is a very bright child, his grandmother had an IQ of 150 and his father has an IQ of 160. From a very young age he always observed the world around him in very detailed and different, adult eyes. His nick name is "little old man" because of it and Im afraid if I cant get him out of the typical school he will just end up being nothing more than that, a typical little old man. Aged and frustrated, as I am becoming from worry of what will become of him if the state, the politicians and the teacher's unions have thier way.

[@Teadon86]

@Will G Sad but true.

[@Teadon86]

As one of those who would most likely be grouped together with the lowest common denominator, I've always found it amazing and cruel that gifted individuals are forced to study at the same pace as people like me who can barely study at a normal pace. The disgust and derision showed the gifted is to me incomprehensible. Because without the gifted and driven we would not be living in modern societies and neither would we peel away the secrets of the universe.

[@illbeyourmonster1959]

I'm from the midwest and we get a fair amount of liberal state transplants including from california, whose school record say they are supposedly smart high achievers with good grades. They get put in our schools and almost all test at 6 months to 2+ years behind everyone else here in the same age and grade rankings. It's just wild. It's not the kids or parent fault, but the leftist run state schools they went to and both sides know it.

[@ANPC-pi9vu]

@@Teadon86 The fact that you comprehend that and do not resent it shows that you may not be gifted in academics, but you are very gifted in wisdom. There is indeed more than one way intellect manifests. We need specialized charter schools for people like you, too.

[@maxjosephwheeler]

*They've found the right formula.....Motivated and Accountable PARENTS partnered with Motivated and Accountable Teachers/School Systems.* Taking everyone to the NEXT LEVEL!

[@mrofftopic2802]

It takes a NYT journalist to think that *meritocracy* is a morally disturbing idea.

[@rayr5950]

The government owns your children citizen, we shall mold them all into equally obedient tax serfs and some of them will be mediocre New York Times journalists and serve the federal and state education bureaucracies and the teachers unions. "The aim of public education is not to spread enlightenment at all; it is simply to reduce as many individuals as possible to the same safe level, to breed and train a standardized citizenry, to put down dissent and originality. That is its aim in the United States, whatever the pretensions of politicians, pedagogues and other such mountebanks, and that is its aim everywhere else." - HL Mencken

[@hanamlchl]

It's the same perspective as the notion that it's wrong to extract the most intelligent and motivated individuals from third world countries and import them to America where they can thrive.

[@Razaiel]

@@hanamlchl It's not wrong, but it does create a "brain drain" in their home country that exacerbates the problems. Better that the intelligent & driven people stay there to fix their own country.

[@johnscanlan6337]

Of course the same NYT journalist has zero problem being selected to work at the world's most prestigious news organization after graduating from Yale as opposed to Detroit City College!

[@searose6192]

I would say though, that it isn't wholly a meritocracy. Plenty of bright children with potential would be left without opportunities to thrive due to their parent's disinterest in their education and in many cases, a cultural belife that actively squelches any urge to strive in school. I don't know what the solution is however so...

[@RBG-ez7pd]

You mean to tell me that parents actually have to give a damn for their kids to succeed? I’m shocked.

[@mikebetts2046]

My sixth grade teacher was a former army captain and a religious man. There were occasions when we marched in formation for recess. And needless to say he took no crap from any of the kids. He was perhaps the best teacher I ever had. He woke me up academically.

[@austinhannemann2615]

I went to a charter school and LOVED it! Why would anyone argue against parents/students getting to choose their school??

[@melissagibb763]

I send my kids to a charter school too. We LOVE it. Opponents say that it takes funding away from public schools. But like they say in the vid, who has the right to say my kid is a public commodity?

[@HotVoodooWitch]

Because the kids might end up thinking for themselves?

[@h2oteen]

@@melissagibb763 Charter schools don't even get Federal funding!

[@aidenaune7008]

because the single parent children dont get the extra money that the dual parent kid brings in, the dual parent kid doesnt need as much money, so they take it and use it on the poor kid, but that is not fair to the dual parent kid because he shouldnt be stuck in a system catering to single parent kids when he can excel in a charter school catering to dual parent kids. its the same argument with socialism, give everybody equal because the disadvantaged and lazy shouldnt be left poor, even though letting the more advantageous people improve themselves actually improves eveybody through the economy.

[@jacoblatham7584]

We need to get rid of the Dept. of Education. Public Schools in this country are fundamentally broken because of a lack of accountability for students, teachers, and parents.

[@squarepegroundhole8211]

I would just like to add administrative staff and leadership to you list.

[@KeepItReal33]

William , And ESPECIALLY the “Teacher’s Union” is the single biggest problem, in my opinion. However, anything the Government touches eventually turns to crap. The best thing we could do for education in this Country, is to privatize ALL K-12 education.

[@rayr5950]

The Progressives would never stand for abolishing all that, public education is the 10th plank in their constitution, The Communist Manifesto.

[@sanniepstein4835]

Absolutely. Standards were higher when education was a completely local affair.

[@honeybadgerisme]

Jacob Latham agree and also disagree system should go? yes lack of accountability is in resource management--why do principles make 6-figure salaries but classrooms cannot have aides? Teachers barely make above poverty level? Kids cannot have music class, art class, or sometimes even p.e.?

[@SevenRiderAirForce]

Rich families send their kids to private schools and are never guilted about "leaving the public school behind."

[@SevenRiderAirForce]

@@VHale-yz7hc Really. I stand corrected. What do people guilt you about? And who's the type of person to do it?

[@zombiestory6353]

@@SevenRiderAirForce no-one gives the any guilt they may feel some but that is them to be honest they are more likely to be proud of it and feel they've done good for their child then to feel guilt. I went private schools

[@ruthlessreid9172]

We celebrated single motherhood and we have received it in abundance.

[@bevs9995]

better than murdered and abused women (and children)

[@justifiably_stupid4998]

But it isnt fair that students who want to learn to actually get an education. Everyone should struggle in subpar public education equally - /sarcasm.

[@searose6192]

That's the argument you endlessly hear against homeschooling as well. As if we have some duty to sacrifice our children to a crappy school just to ensure they have more money pouring in. No thanks.

[@hullbreach33]

I see no problem with this. I worked for several years in one of the "inner city school systems". It was an utter shit show of feral students, loser parents, and the dumbest collection of human beings Ive ever seen that collectively made up the faculty and administration.

[@andrewgonzalez6208]

hullbreach hahah yea. Nyc Public schools suck.

[@rustlecompton]

and these staff believe they deserve a raise every year and can never lose their job

[@maniacal_engineer]

but all that faculty is represented by the union

[@astarisborn9820]

💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯!!!!

[@andreamahogany4252]

LMAO😂😂😂

[@STDRACO777]

No its not. Parents should be judged for not being motivated enough to put their children in charter schools.

[@silveravnt]

they will be

[@BuddyGLee]

Wow. Good one.

[@STDRACO777]

@Philip Alexander Jach Its good but for that you need a full time parent at home. That is very scarce these days. And just because they have a parent at home does not mean they are motivated to help their own children, unfortunately I have first hand experience of this. Some people have children to prove a point and not to create a successful next generation.

[@STDRACO777]

@Sudhir Kakar did I say just because?

[@STDRACO777]

@Sudhir Kakar my whole argument was that its not a certainty..... You have a much better chance if you have both your parents though.

[@Ceobeatmaker]

The main thing is this...I asked white liberal teachers (I'm black independent) can black and brown children have the same opportunities to change their educational outcomes if offered. They ALL said a variation of no...one literally said "Why leave the failing school district? Why not stay and help build it up to where it could be?" That let me know right there who my real fight is against if I want anyone who looks like me to succeed in this country. BTW this is not a blanket statement for a political affiliation, just an anecdote of what has been consistent in my over my years in the profession.

[@sanniepstein4835]

Even if libs' argument were fair, it doesn't work in practice. Smart kids do not make their classmates more intelligent, curious, or motivated. They just become bored and discouraged themselves.

[@honeybadgerisme]

Black & brown deserve just as much opportunity for a stimulating atmosphere as any other color! Good on you standing up for success. I hope you are a teacher. You sound awesome.

[@RavenStorm332]

Because progressives are racist and they don't want their children near minorities.

[@kauiahsing-gray8550]

". . . where do we get the right to treat anybody's child like a public resource?" This, alone, seems to trump this entire question.

[@redram5150]

When I was in public high school, my teachers vehemently fought school choice for no reason other than they did not want “... to get stuck with a school of low achieving students because our district was cheap and felt that would occur” That isn’t an argument. Their employer being shit shouldn’t have any influence on anyone seeking a better option which they are paying for.

[@melelconquistador]

They drag us down and disenfranchise so many. Ironically they push many to go to college and universities that are likely inflated institutions.

[@CaptainBones222]

It's their goddamn fault for choosing to become pubic school teachers. Kids don't have to pay the price for their mistakes.

[@asldfjkalsdfjasdf]

never forget that the parents sending their kids to charter schools paying for the public school through their taxes as well - see reply from Nuby

[@asldfjkalsdfjasdf]

@Nuby oh thank you for the correction. i was not aware of that

[@sharonritchie7115]

My kids are high achievers in school and sports but if I wasn’t married and able to stay at home for the first 13 years to lay the foundation, they would not be the people they are today. I pushed them HARD to learn to read at age 3-4, socialized them, had them in several different extracurricular until they found their individual passions. A single parent rarely has the time or the resources to get the same results. Unfortunately, after 13 years, my husband was laid off and I started working several jobs. I’m no longer home in the evenings. The older two have a strong work ethic and are totally self sufficient. My youngest (a boy) needs a fire lit under his butt to get motivated (although still doing well by today’s standards), so I am concerned that without more oversight, he may not be as successful as the first two. Parents are an integral piece in the success of children.

[@BM-fz9yc]

Our culture and economic state has made it very hard to have one parent able to stay home and raise their kids. We are seeing the effects of this now.

[@bobthemagicmoose]

I have been involved in multiple public schools for a number of years and it is always the 2-3 problem children that consume 95% of a teacher's time and energy. We absolutely must add discrimination in our schools and stop pretending every kid is the same. We don't need to ignore the problem children, we just need to give them a different system then the others. But we are too concerned with appeasing teachers unions and distorted visions of "equality" to find real solutions.

[@aaaaaauyt]

Not equality, but equity ….

[@rhekman]

@3:50 "she [the student Tiffany] is delivering the results we need". That story perfectly demonstrates the brokenness of public education in the USA. A "school" in the sense of the building, the faculty, the teachers union, and the school board don't "deserve" anything. Plenty of teachers are focused on the individual students, but too many institutions are just focused on how they get more government money flowing through their doors.

[@nychellebrewer]

"Kids learn better in an environment that valorizes achievement"--yes, absolutely, I would agree with that part.

[@carbonfibercrypto2919]

crabs in a bucket pull the ambitious ones back down

[@Doitallgp]

Based in China great analogy

[@ifbfmto9338]

Having two parents gives you a better chance? Wow who would’ve guessed...........

[@TheHeretic2011]

I agree completely. Motivated children SHOULD be held back to the standards of the least motivated. That way the lazy students don't feel bad./sarc

[@williamcowan4936]

I went to a charter school and graduated high school. Honestly if it wasnt for that school I probably would have never graduated.

[@m0rchaintm0rchaint60]

"... when you take that child away you're damaging the public school system.": When you don't take that child away you're damaging the child. Which are we here for? But we're not damaging the public school system either. We're exposing the children that need additional help to the light of day. We have more people focused on trying to find out how to help these poor performers. While they're among high performers who are being dumbed down we can't analyze their actual needs in education.

[@Schlabbeflicker]

A common theme in publicly operated charter schools is that, after a time, parents who actively participate in their children's education self-select into these schools. More often than not, those children tend to be White or Asian, and come from stable, two-parent households. Absent parents from failing schools will then politicize these parents as "racist" and advocate to have their children "redistributed" to other "poorer" schools, despite per-pupil spending being identical across the district. They believe that intelligent children will bring their own children's test scores up, despite the negative effect it may have on the charter children. On top of that, they intend to squeeze the benefit of active parents who volunteer for their school and "redistribute" it to their children so they don't have to volunteer themselves. The entire attitude against charter schools reeks of entitlement and, effectively, racial marxism. Why should talented children succeed when the "fair" choice is for everyone to fail together? Utter insanity.

[@GIboy1990]

What's morally disturbing is threating violence towards someone if they dont give you money based on the value of their property, and then telling them "you child must be educated here."

[@JIYkp]

Some people just don't want to admit nobody is actually systematically oppressed in America.

[@jimleedy8029]

Thank you Reason! Excellent analysis and while there are no easy answers, let people make choices and live with the consequences.

[@DaveWard-xc7vd]

If public schools would have skimmed off the violent and disruptive children we wouldn't need charter schools.

[@Komagb]

"Did you get to choose; do you like your choice?" That about sums it up. It's called FREEDOM.

[@dankghoul1438]

8:30 - 9:03 This is why marriage is a necessity when it comes to rearing a child.

[@mer7260]

Lol I only picked this because I go to a charter high school 🤣 I just want to clear some things up. First of all we are not a public resource. We have the right to go to any school we wish, and we don't HAVE to go to our local public school. They don't have own us. My school did have a lottery, and it was random, first come first serve. There was a waiting list. We have longer days and more homework, and more rigorous classes for sure. It's not morally disturbing because families have the right to go anywhere they wish. Yes, my school has bridged the gap between middle class and poor families and wealthy class families. We also do have no tolerance policies for almost everything, fights cheating etc. However, we do have a bussing system and a free breakfast and lunch program for all students. I do live in an area where 80% of people live under the poverty line. What I disagree with is the cherry picking of the parents. Not everyone in my school has 2 parents, 2 cars, etc. Not everything in this video is completely accurate for all schools, but for some I'm sure it applies.

[@qpurple4194]

I’m kind of curious are all charter schools the same ? For NYC charter schools, the school hours from 8:10-4:30pm Is it similar for you as well ?

[@mer7260]

@@qpurple4194 during physical school it was 7:40/7:50 to 3:15/3:30 for high school. I live in nys but not nyc. However we only do online now and it’s 8am to 2pm with lunch break. Also charter schools aren’t all owned by the same people, they are different organizations and have their own sets of rules like dress code etc but do have commonalities.

[@qpurple4194]

Life is true unfair Our schedule is the same even during online (;´༎ຶٹ༎ຶ`)

[@bwake]

We all benefit when the most gifted among us reach their full potential. Nobody who contributes to the world captures all the value that they add. The people to whom most of us object are those who exploit their positions to extract more from others than the value of their contributions. This would include those who have insider knowledge, and those in a position to do favors for or obstruct the rest of us. This includes those who we increasingly must hire to game the system on our behalf.

[@drmahidhar1876]

It is ‘morally disturbing’ when kids have to go to schools like this to avoid bangers and bullies who tell kids trying to improve themselves that they are acting white.

[@BM-fz9yc]

Absolutely. The nyt journalist who wrote that doesn’t care about the well-being of the children in question

[@destroya3303]

I disagree, people leaving to charter schools doesn't hurt those left behind, they are putting more resources into growing what works, allowing more opportunities for more kids to change schools.

[@heidikurz6609]

My children go to charter school and are thriving! I would suggest it for anyone

[@Bicloptic]

Skimming = chose to go. So immoral.

[@MonaLisaHasNoEyebrows]

The teacher may complain that their job is harder but ask a “Tiffany’s” parents whether they’d like her to have a better chance of more upward mobility at a charter versus staying at a school that underserves them to be a “public good by setting an example for other kids”.

[@JDSeg693]

So lazy parents do there children a disservice.. imagine that.

[@francisaugistino701]

If only there was an opportunity for families to have one at home, and one at work. I wonder what tool could be used? It’s as if there’s a correlation between having access to frequent and fair raises, just as executives have enjoyed. Executive raises have gone up more than 1000% while regular workers haven’t enjoyed a pay raise since the 70’s.

[@holocaust_2.0]

If you are against school choice, you just want to drag other people down.

[@zerstorer335]

Having been something of a Tiffany, this speaks to me. As early as first grade, teachers were telling my parents to send me to school with additional books so I could have something to do because I was getting the work done so quickly. And later on I became one of "those kids" EVERYONE wanted in their group project because they knew I could carry them all. That last part left me feeling quite exploited. I imagine that's how students who are left in schools that aren't helping them can feel. They've got so much potential but the environment isn't helping them maximize it. For me, even though the work became extremely hard, I felt I was in a much better environment when my parents were able to send me to a magnet program filled with kids like me. I got more out of school because I was in an environment that could push me and my classmates better. So yes, it may be injurious to the public schools to have these options that take driven families and students away. But schools are there to serve the CHILDREN and be there for the children's benefit, not the other way around. If unmotivated kids become motivated because there was a higher-performing student in the room, I didn't see it. They were more than willing to write those motivated kids off as being weird, being nerds, being uncool, and various other things to assuage their ego. Families were what pushed students. And if a family is willing to push their student further, it's important to have somewhere for that student to go.

[@tomforsythe7024]

Ivan Galamian was a gifted violinist. His family had the resources to send him to the best teachers in Europe. Just another example of the rich getting all the benefits, right? Because Galamian was given such an excellent education, he was able to revolutionize violin pedagogy, making it easier for everyone to learn the instrument. The whole world benefited, not just the rich kid. Similarly, giving highly motivated kids access to the best schools will benefit all of us.

[@777Looper]

Assuming that the competent and privileged operate within a worldview that values service and productivity over corruption and exploitation.

[@tomforsythe7024]

@@777Looper I hear you. Events since I posted this comment have made me more sympathetic to your viewpoint. There are exploitative and corrupt people in positions of power, and always have been. There are virtuous people who get screwed over. None of this can be corrected by preventing gifted children from going to the best schools. The best hope we have is training the best and brightest to the top of their potential. That includes inculcating them with moral courage to stand up to exploiters.

[@tomforsythe7024]

@@777Looper The best antidote to the corrupt and exploitative is the decentralization of power. The more power is in the hands of the few, the more likely those few are to abuse it.

[@777Looper]

@@tomforsythe7024 Amen.

[@davidmiletic6647]

"You suffer 2 hours through homework". Idiotic mindset.

[@maximilian200057]

It also promotes the idea to students that homework is a bad thing.

[@davidmiletic6647]

@@maximilian200057 Yes.

[@reagancapwell685]

@@maximilian200057 you do know homework has been proven to do very little to teach students

[@RascalKyng]

It is conditioning to make good worker units whom do not critical think...

[@davidmiletic6647]

@@reagancapwell685 No.

[@qhack]

A merit based society will always be better off than an altruistic society. This applies to all parts, including the education system. Yes, some will be left behind. I would rather have the smaller numbers left behind by charter schools, rather than the massive dumbing down of the public school system we have now.

[@pmodi1104]

education is an investment, we should be able to control that investment however we choose, kids shouldn’t be forced to go into public schools if they don’t want to

[@genli5603]

It’s like Social Security. Horribly inefficient, wasteful, and damaging.

[@valkryie-5129]

7:25am to 5pm is literally longer than my work day and then they add homework on top of that? That's not teaching that's cramming and it results in massive burnout.

[@dankhaze4207]

So Charter Schools demand parents do the things that they should, as parents, already be doing.

[@friendlyone2706]

The first question that should have been asked "Where would you send your child? Your nieces and nephews? Your best friends' children?"

[@Sarahopal]

Even the name of the video, it sounds like someone complaining "it's no fair! Just because they are willing to work harder doesn't mean they should do better" It's literally the American dream. Work hard and you Can do well. I hear people saying equality of outcome would be fair and they are SO wrong.

[@Windsweptzariel]

It will be scary if we come to a point in our society where people who work harder or are more talented will be held back so everyone can be equal.

[@Sarahopal]

@@Windsweptzariel I agree totally. It's what we get from generations of "participation trophies" and parents who are so worried about their kids feeling Any sort of pain they shield them from life. Then those same kids get into the real world and are incapable of dealing with it. They've had equality of outcome since birth, and college certainly didn't teach them any different

[@honkhonk8009]

@@Sarahopal Only people that reinforce that type of mindset on children is your generation. Getting mad that kids are visiting their friends places without asking for permission, and creating a whole generation of socially inept retards.

[@michaelmcchesney6645]

I think this discussion was the most honest discussion of charter schools I have heard. I may be a year late, but I just bought the book on Amazon. An elementary school teacher I know said to me recently that real school choice would destroy the public schools because the parents that really care about education would leave and the kids with the least interested parents would remain. She has a point, but I agree with Mr. Pondiscio that it doesn't give the schools the right to force those students to stay to help the students that struggle. I think the single greatest factor in determining a student's academic success is their family/home life. There will of course be some that overcome terrible adversity and succeed anyway. But my experience was that the students that were the least interested in school had the parents least likely to show up at a parent teacher conference or even answer the phone when I called. The teaching methods I was instructed to use focused on "heterogenous small group work." In other words, after a mini lesson the kids will break up into groups with ideally 1 above average student, 1 below average, and 2 average. I think these teaching methods were designed more to help the below average students. We had some very bright kids, some of whom missed the Bronx Science entrance cut off by only 1 or 2 points. But there was little to no enrichment for the brightest kids. The emphasis was on remedial work for the struggling students. That is of course very important. But I think the brighter kids deserve the opportunity to be challenged. I had some very bright black and Latino students that had near perfect grade point averages. Those 2 things together usually lead to acceptance at and scholarships for some very competitive colleges. But they found themselves in classes with kids that had much more rigorous educations to prepare them for college. They could have, should have been better prepared by their school.

[@davidalbricht3773]

So my takeaway is that one of the best and most important privilege is to have parents that care about you. Seems sort of self evident.

[@ggarza]

The only difference between charter schools and other public schools is that they close bad charter schools. Bad public schools never close. Many parents get trapped in these schools and can’t leave even though they desperately want to flee.

[@arcamemnon9193]

15:55 "If you take Tiffany and three or four other kids like that out of my south Bronx classroom, my job is harder not easier." Tiffany is not your teaching aid, how dare you think to harm her future for your own benefit as a teacher. The only thing morally disturbing here is your opinion of what Tiffany's reason for going to school is. She's there for her benefit, not yours. Ivy league schools only take the brightest students and help mold them into leaders and successful adults. By forcing Tiffany to stay in a failing public school you steal her future and her only real chance to get ahead the way Ivy league schools help the best and brightest get ahead. Until the failed public school system is trashed and something better comes along, Tiffany's only hope is a charter school, she does not belong to you and it is not her responsibility to spend her childhood as a motivator for less ambitious kids simply because it makes your job as teacher a bit easier.

[@Windsweptzariel]

Before my niece got sent to her charter school she was in a public school where she was in charge of helping another student learn because she was ahead and that student was behind in class. She was essentially playing the part of a teachers aide. This was not fair to her as a second grader.

[@jackmccoy7435]

I find it ‘Morally Disturbing’ when parents aren’t motivated and dedicated to their children’s education.

[@GIboy1990]

This much I know. My future children will not be attending public school. I am a product of public education and therefore have the foresight and experience in public education to make an informed decision. I was both homeschooled and private schooled. My time in public education outside of athletics has done absolutely nothing in preparing me for success in adult life.

[@GIboy1990]

@Sudhir Kakar I lived in one of the top school districts in the country. I grew up in Maryland

[@GIboy1990]

@Sudhir Kakar kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZrSk3ZsibiLgtE check em out. Our education system is based on the prussian industrial model. Teach basic necessities, instill discipline, train subservience to authority to work in the factories. Its grossly outdated in the information age.

[@chosenbyyah88]

I had my daughter in charter school and although it’s an option , it’s not inherently a better option. A parent or parents have to be involved and on top of the policies and what’s being taught. I took my daughter out of that charter school because they didn’t meet my standards and were pushing subpar material and slowly got into critical race theory. Ultimately, education is the parents responsibility. It starts at home. Do not hand over your children to any institution and be blindly confident that your child is going to be taught and fostered with knowledge. Anyhow, a small private school was a better option this year but my ultimate goal is homeschool because the entire system is bogus.

[@glennwatson3313]

The thing is the charter school system made it easier for you to find a different school.

[@bevs9995]

i went to a cheaper private school and was homeschooled for 1 year: Private school was better. Its not like my mom could teach me how to code and read music.

[@brindlebot]

I went to public school which was a mess - I learnt nothing at that school but luckily enjoyed going to the public library which is where I taught myself how to get into college. Got lucky and made a little money as an adult - I sure as anything send my kids to private school. To me it doesn't matter if a school costs 5 dollars or 50,000 dollars - or even free but there's effort to get in. The simple fact that there is a barrier to get in (whether financial or effort) keeps out the losers.

[@SincerelyAMother]

This has led to a FULLY CHARTER SCHOOL DISTRICT in New Orleans. The charter schools are failing tremendously in New Orleans. Out of 76 charter schools, only 5 of the charter schools are successful in New Orleans. 3 high schools 2 elementary schools Charter schools are not always the answer.

[@ozzvilla9226]

It’s this type of mentality that held my son back because he was reading at a high school level in elementary!

[@gmeister03]

Wish there was a charter school here

[@Monsuco]

I find it "morally disturbing" that a bunch of wealthy New York Times writers find it acceptable for them to be able to send their kids to nice schools but express a desire to torpedo the efforts of parents in poorer areas to do the same.

[@couchgamingnews9379]

My school turned into a charter and now it seems the students are actually learning.

[@718EngrCo]

What the teachers unions are really saying is that hard working students, and parents that care should be forced to stay in a public school that will guarantee they will fail.

[@jerrellwong4631]

Lol the audacity of these people who say that intact families with present fathers who are invested in their children's future should not have the choice to where their kid goes to school lol!

[@BlazinTigger]

I did way better in charter schools! The district system screwed me because we moved allot in our city, so the school district forced me to go to specific schools. Side note my friend Brittany lied about where she lived so she could go to our high school, and she graduated, I had to move to a ghetto school and I got beat up and ended up dropping out. Our public schools are crap! And saying “giving kids a better option will hurt the already failing schools” is a immoral argument! How can you care more about money for a school (administration and staff) than you care about the education a child receives?

[@nonservitium]

Educational eugenics. I have no problem with that.

[@daniels.3062]

What a very thought provoking interview

[@bentait2462]

God, if I'm ever under scrutiny, let it be by someone as sensible, reasonable and eloquent as Robert Pondiscio.

[@gblargg]

It's almost as if they're using this limited resource on those who will benefit most. What if I told you that welding schools only had people who wanted to learn welding?

[@Not_a_witch]

I went to one of these schools for middle and high school. No drama, everyone just went to class and went home and did homework

[@pashrak6064]

Public school teachers should be happy charter schools are taking their good students away. That way they can focus on the students that truly need them and mold them into being future public school teachers. They should feel right at home molding these low achieving students into the low achieving teachers of the future because those students represent them when they were that age.

[@cj-nyc2057]

“Programs for the gifted are racist because it’s mostly Asians and whites “ -- Comrade Bill diblasio.

[@fruitoftruth1723]

I'm a teacher whose worked in three charter schools in Baltimore city. This is absolutely correct. The notion that parents and students (and by extension, the taxpayer) owe ANYTHING to educators like myself, or to schools in general, is ludicrous. Parents owe the best possible future to their children, and if they have to achieve that by putting them in a better school, what is the school system to say "No, we don't allow choice because that might hurt other students."? I have a channel where I talk about some of these issues. Check me out!

[@ConfidenceinChrist90]

I taught at a charter school and I saw great results with the majority of the kids I taught. However, it’s stressful on teachers and often times I would be depressed and not be motivated to do this work the next day. Send your child to a good charter where teachers are appreciated and not over worked.

[@alicekatess]

I listen to an Indian man speak on the radio ask a very interesting question about public schools. If we removed all Asian and Indian students test scores how well would our public schools really be doing? Hmmmm... unfortunately I know the answer.

[@honkhonk8009]

Our school started getting a massive boost in ranking and funding because we started getting flooded with international exchange students. As a result, alot of people go outside their catchment areas to go here. But in reality, i know 3 teachers in my school that have failed math 12 more than once, and the district superintendent already ran the school 40 million in debt. I dont wanna sound racist, but in my entire life, i only know one white kid thats been consistently getting A's in my school. And hes not even white, hes Portuguese. parents honestly need to start slapping their kids bruh. How tf you gonna let your kids wild out with zero discipline, and expect them to have a decent future.

[@dameyandbailey9457]

WOW!! This is a great interview, great information, and it’s hardly been watched! 😢

[@paulpetersen7041]

And private or magnate schools don't?

[@mrg8255]

So what bully for them.listen up public schools start motivating students.

[@YukitoOnline]

Not just the students.. Also the parents, the parents should hold accountable for their kid's actions..

[@michaellowe3665]

Promoting exceptional kids with motivated parents may have the effect of leaving the rest behind, but it helps them too. Not having the highest achievers in the same class allows the teachers to slow down and work with the kids that need more help. Teachers may deny this because they have to move at a slower pace and work harder, but if the kids need that, it is exactly what they should do. When they are doing their job right it should seem harder. I think this guy is missing half the story.

[@Windsweptzariel]

Michael Lowe Yes and it gives those who are near exceptional the chance to shine in class.

[@sanniepstein4835]

Good point.

[@didles123]

The rest who are left behind will almost certainly be in a worse off position. When all the parents who care leave, the school just reverts to a zoo. In general we can say that segregation hurts the lower percentile because they can no longer free ride off of the infrastructure created by the the higher percentile. This is why blacks fought so hard to enter segregation. They knew it would be a net benefit to force white people to share their infrastructure with blacks. Libertarians can be pretty naive about the ruthless nature of ideology, that they want to point out the silver lining of be a loser in their paradigm.

[@notyourtypicalfarah7194]

@@didles123 These school district are entirely black and brown. It has nothing to do with whites.

[@didles123]

@@notyourtypicalfarah7194 I didn't say the school districts were white. I was making a comparison.

[@DB-tt6xz]

Thomas Sowell wrote "charter schools and their enemies" . guess what? the same kid that gets into charter schools and the ones who apply and dont end up drastically different. The kid that applies and doesn't get in struggles and the kid that gets in succeeds

[@OUTERPANGEA]

That is the parents responsibility. Stop using children as a public resource.

[@DB-tt6xz]

@@OUTERPANGEA I apologize. I don't quite understand what you are saying here. Are you saying I should stop using kids? Or public schools should stop using them? Or Thomas Sowell should stop studying them? Or are you saying education is up to the parents? Sorry, short text is a tough way to convey and communicate. I apologize for my ineptitude. Please instruct me or clarify. Thank you

[@conservativelens]

They get to choose their students, and they can put out disruptions. Public schools don't have that option or don't use that option. Think about how great public schools would be if behavior problems were eliminated.

[@conservativelens]

@Ken MacDonald Thanks. I think.

[@jasongraham8250]

How dare parents unfairly privilege their children by being married and reading books to them.

[@barrygeeful]

I like to say that we educated our daughter but her school was a great help. Parents are all-important. Our daughter is happily successful in all aspects of her life.

[@guytrout7101]

Being a retired public school teacher, everyone has the right to learn no matter how it is done. At a government public school, charter school, private school, church school or home school. The right falls on what the parents want and accepts. For charter schools that has a lottery, so bid. If a charter school's expects work, so bid. Any thing of value requires a comment. The parent, the student and school HAS TO BE COMMITED TO THE COMMENT OF LEARNING. Anything short of that is a waste of time and effort. At the root of learning, learning is a way to elevate and expand a person's understanding and knowledge, it can not be taken away. Then the person has the set of good tools to start on the road of live. Nothing is ever guaranteed, it rests on the person will to succeed. Public education has no tie to each student, they think so but no. The main problem with public schools is politics control. Be it from the government, unions, and personal attitudes of teachers and school administrators and board. A decent and honest government, good management and results. Bad government, like socialism, bad results. It is up to parents. Student's must not be left to the school, which ever type it is. If you want crap you can find a lot of public schools that teach crap. IF PARENTS WANT A GOOD EDUCATION FOR THEIR KIDS. YON MUST STOP THE LABELING LEARNING AS A NEGATIVE IDEOLOGY BASED ON RACE, CLASS OR WEALTH. If not, the poor attitudes and opinions of the parents will handicap the kids.

[@grimupnorth9336]

Tiffany is not there to make your life easier, especially if you are failing her and dragging her down!

[@uncaptured7646]

Very informative interview. My only complaint is the sound quality. It's not just a volume issue. Turn up the highs, drop the mids and lows, and then you'll have more room for a volume increase.

[@commonsenseconservative3226]

So having two working parents leads to success? 😲

[@savannahannasb14islander33]

"Students who choose to go to charter schools" WE DON'T CHOOSE OUR SCHOOLS!!

[@savannahannasb14islander33]

@Andrea Mendenhall Not by the students. The parents make the decision for us. Or that's just mine...

[@flightTime123]

This is a great conversation, but I hate the continuing generalization that white kids are inherently privileged. Like sure, maybe in New York City the vast majority of poor people are minorities. But go to a small Midwest town and it’s mostly white people who are mostly poor.

[@joe42m13]

that's true, but population density and relative poverty are much much higher in major urban centers so the impact is seen and felt there

[@phil5569]

Excellent view into the charter school dynamic. VERY informative! Great video!