Is It REALLY "Just as Good?"...ARX Inceptor vs Underwood Xtreme Defender .380 Auto Ammo Test!

[@billlewis8884]

Your shooting ability, over a vast number of platforms and calibers, is highly underrated....there ain't a lot of "do overs" when the gel is involved....

[@GlennJudah]

The only do overs I have seen is when the projectile curves out of the gel.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Appreciate that. My biggest issue is remembering all the different points of impact on the different guns.😆

[@CookieMonster_1969]

Agreed👍

[@justinburn5740]

Thank you for continuing the 380 testing. It’s my carry 95% of the time, using the LCP max. Not ideal, but 380 is better than nothing.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Definitely.😎👍

[@BoRnMuSh]

@PeterAngles-jq7gr Most people would tell you to carry atleast 9mm for penetrating power and velocity. Too clunky for me though. I want something I can keep in my pocket and forget about.

[@jamesnevitt3400]

@PeterAngles-jq7gr or training some people most people ideal of training is going to a range standing in front of a stationary target and blasting off rounds. I actually been to a training pistol class that requires you to running and shoot behind cover and concealment , shooting on one knee and laying down using on hand on both sides.

[@acid6urns]

@PeterAngles-jq7grit’s just an objective fact that 380 ammo is almost always too slow to expand with hollow points. 9mm is much faster, higher weight, more consistent and better expansion (most 380 HP won’t expand AT ALL). there’s a reason that no one who has a high chance of using their gun carries a .380 as their primary. 9mm is just objectively better in EVERY way.

[@DuvalRypr]

@@acid6urnsthere are many OBJECTIVE reasons some would choose .380 over 9mm. Some are recoil sensitive. Some people have arthritis or other medical reasons they cannot operate a 9mm as effectively as a .380. Take the Pd380 for example, it’s probably the easiest racking pistol I’ve ever put in my hand. Also, most 9mm are bigger than a .380. You can get a smaller pistol with less printing that recoils much softer. The smaller the 9mm the snappier it is. You forgot to mention all these reasons. You just mentioned ballistics. When mentioning ballistics you didn’t mention that the cartridge with probably the worst ballistics, the .22, has more bodies than any other round in history. 9mm of course has more muzzle energy, more speed, and more mass. It’s going to have better ballistics, but when compared to say a .40 a 9mm is lunch. .40 in every way is better than 9mm ballistically. .380 is in the same space 9mm was 15-20 years ago. .380 is an adequate round for self defense. You’re not going to carry it in the woods for bear or hog protection, sure, but you’re not carrying a 9mm either.

[@tubbyshvfd9110]

One thing that keeps me watching….your brutal honesty on the products you test

[@ToolsandTargets]

All this time I figured it was my expert marksmanship! 😲😲😲

[@tubbyshvfd9110]

@@ToolsandTargets 😂 Yeah that to

[@williamwright8594]

That's why I love him too. He's quite hard on my beloved backup pistol, the LCP max, but he shows me ammo for it, so I can forgive him being hard on it.

[@metocvideo]

Using the short barrel is helpful, because both those brands are likely to be used in compact self defence pistols. Tumbling in the terminal ballistics phase is not a problem at all, you certainly don’t want over-penetration in a close range defence round, and tumbling puts the brakes on, and increases the wound channel, so it is a win-win situation

[@rippertrain]

What a likable guy. Great channel!

[@ToolsandTargets]

Appreciate that!😎👊

[@JasonPew]

I would LOVE to see you test the winner of this (underwood) vs the Federal HST vs a standard FMJ. That would be the go-to video for 380 carry ammo. You’d be putting the best round of each “type” head to head against each other. Out of the LCP Max of course.

[@treal512]

Reliable expansion is the issue

[@JasonPew]

@@treal512 I went and actually tested this myself … in 20” of Clear Ballistic gel. FMJ through and through. Just a think line with no cavitation. Federal HST went 12”. The Federal HST is always reliable expansion. Always. Underwood Extreme Defender went 13-1/2”. Extreme Defender is my pick. The 380 needs penetration.

[@craigcook1571]

The ARX did better than I expected. It also looks like it might feed better in finicky guns

[@ToolsandTargets]

Definitely no sharp edges to get caught.

[@bigdawg-cl2db]

I agree. I keep hoping someone will give some info as far as jamming of these fluted rounds in LCPs, but after seeing the hollow points fail because of material plugged in them, I will be picking up some of these ARX.

[@robertshay9951]

Also, older pistols were not designed with HP ammo. (Didn't exist) So if you got an older pistol, these may be want you could use. Older Walther pistols come to mind PPS,PPK, and the Mauser HSc and the 1934 berrettas.

[@geoffb5]

AFAIK Lehigh Defense, recently bought by Wilson Combat, makes all the Defender bullets. They, Underwood and Black Hills load with them. Inceptor makes the ARX bullets. They, and NOVX load with them and Ruger used to. You are doing the best ammo tests online at this time. I hope one day you might get some Sinterfire special duty home defense ammo in 9mm, 380, 45 acp or 38 special to test. They are similar to that Federal Syntech you recently did.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir. I have some in a few calibers but haven't tested em yet.😎👍

[@FtoBlack]

​@@ToolsandTargets yes yes yes

[@johnkellmer5133]

I'd carry the Underwood in my EZ. Just a bit more barrel (3.68 vs 2.8) in .380 makes a big difference to terminal performance, I think.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Totally agree. The EZ is a great gun.😎👍

[@truthhurts7836]

I still don't have a 380, but I still appreciate all of the testing no matter what the caliber👍

[@ToolsandTargets]

Appreciate ya, brother!😎👊

[@michaelrains2268]

Often in the hot South Carolina summer, I carry a Ruger 380 max as well. It won't fire +p loads, but for a get off me gun, it serves my purpose and has plenty of magazine capacity .

[@randyduncan795]

All this 380 testing might have some of us pondering an intervention. What makes it so valuable is for those who need that LCP/P3AT mousegun for denied areas. This caliber requires the best of ammunition especially in those guns although it's funny that plain old FMJ will outperform a number of the "self defense" expanding rounds. Thank you for putting a massive amount of time and effort into your project.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Appreciate you, my friend.😎👊

[@cjsteele9594]

FMJ is what i would use for 380.

[@isaaccutlip5815]

The interceptor is what I keep loaded in my dad's keltec p3at

[@Theright2bheard]

I live 5 miles from Underwood’s Manufacturing and pick up my Underwood Ammo there direct. That being said there great people making good ammo. I do know a “max” with I do use for certain times as my carry. I think your spot on using a FMJ on a .380 for penetration. But the video shows me the turbulence on the underwood with penetration. Just order a box to see my grouping. Thanks for the down home no hogwash videos I like ‘em.

[@tendraftsdeep]

Just wanted to say how magnificent your camera is! Been watching football all day and now watching this is super sharp and clear. Thanks for this great info

[@ToolsandTargets]

Appreciate that, brother. Funny you say that because I was watching one of my videos on a TC the other day to see how it looked and noticed the same thing when i swapped back to cable.😎👊

[@ericbergfield6451]

Glad to see this specific test, as Inceptors aren't a cartridge you see tested very often

[@realquiet3269]

There have been many tests with these fluted designs. With gel, water or meat and orange targets... for the most part they do not over penetrate like an FMJ and are barrier blind, some show through windshields of cars. For the 380, I carry the xtreme defender rounds. It just makes sense to have that type of performance. The LCP Max is awesome for pocket carry, amazing little pistol.

[@ToolsandTargets]

😎👊

[@electrochubb]

It appears he has got rid of the little Ruger...since this test.

[@nojoeoutdoors4623]

I just can't get on board with these new fangled rounds lol. I'm too attached to lead core hollow points.

[@ZootyZoFo]

I am watching all your videos before buying 4 boxes and for me it’s still the Defender because I trust monolithic copper going through barriers more than a bonded bullet and that additional energy doesn’t hurt either as every bit counts on this round. I would love to see how that bonded bullet performs going through various barriers compared to the monolithic copper. Great video as always and thank you for your extensive testing of the .380 that seems to be getting more popular every year due to ammunition like these two being available, I have a Ruger LCP II and this along with my Glock 43 covers all my carry needs no matter what I’m wearing.

[@semichiganandy2127]

Thanks, great video. Several years ago, Ruger sold 9mm ARX rounds (possibly other calibers, I'm not sure). It was around the time that these fluted rounds first came out.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Interesting

[@lonewanderer3603]

I never bought the bigger common calibers, but I have some ARX in 38 special.

[@JJ_SDWR]

Good test Tools. I carry Underwood 95gr XTP +P in my Bersa when I carry that gun, even if they dont expand beautifully they'll work like FMJs and they're moving fast.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir.😎👊

[@gwidwock]

When I carry my Glock 42, I fill it up with Underwood Extreme Penetrator +P. I've also shot them out of my Ruger Security 380 but Ruger says "NO" to +P ammo from that gun so I don't shoot that anymore. 99gr 380 HSTs in the Ruger now. Great 380 video , thanks!

[@ToolsandTargets]

Appreciate that!😎👊

[@paulstone472]

I used to be a fan of the ARX ammo. In some guns, they worked perfectly. In others, I had problems. The problem is the shape of the bullet. The side of the bullet is rather flat and doesn't curve until you get near the tip. In some chambers this causes the bullet to engage the rifling before it's fully chambered. In one of my pistols, the slide would not even go fully into battery. And in some guns, even if it did chamber, the bullet became firmly lodged in the barrel. I couldn't cycle the slide to eject the live round. The only way to clear the gun was to fire it. And that is worrisome considering the possibility of pressure spikes. I simply quit using them.

[@900stx7]

Ruger sold a version of the ARX a few years ago. I noticed with a newer box the flutes were much shallower that the old box. I contacted Ruger and they actually changed their projectile because of feeding problems with certain guns. They said it didn't affect performance. The depth of the flutes were maybe half the original. I never had any problems with either ammo.

[@900stx7]

I used the Ruger ARX .380 myself for awhile. The earlier boxes of ammo had much deeper flutes than the newer. I contacted Ruger about it and they said it was to help with feeding, said it didn't affect performance. Wonder if you had the earlier ammo ?

[@MB-jg4tr]

You deserve all the rewards this channel gives you. I thoroughly enjoy watching even if the particular video isn't relevant to me. Thanks again

[@ToolsandTargets]

Appreciate the support, brother!😎👊

[@reagan9320]

Love the videos brother. Keep them coming! I carry a 380 daily. A browning black label 4.25 in barrel. You would love it!

[@kyrozudesoya1829]

I don't know if you've tried out the Security 380 but I'd highly recommend looking into that. It's not too small but not too big either. Can basically have a Glock 26 sized gun in 380 or put in an extended mag for higher ammo and better grip. SUPER easy to shoot. It being easy to rack and manipulate makes it a nice beginner pistol or communal gun that can go from CCW to nighstand gun very easily and affordably.

[@ToolsandTargets]

I actually checked one out at my local shop the other day. It's actually bigger than I thought it was which aint a bad thing in my opinion. But since I already have the EZ which is about the same size, I don't know how much use I'd get out of it.

[@pewpewTN]

They actually make the Glock 26 equivalent in .380 now. I think it was just this year that it came out.

[@thomascronan9964]

My hands suffer from art ritis. Can't close hands on the smaller ones. This ruger works fine!

[@kentuckywindage222]

​​@@ToolsandTargets I've been 👀 eyeballing an EZ for the wife. Car accident we had years ago left her with a weak grip. Do you like yours and is it 9 or 380? Guy was hit, (and lucky) a few times with 380 years ago. Jerked his tractor trailer door open and dumped on him. It missed the vitals and he was out in a very short time. Not that a hole where one isn't supposed to be won't do the job. It was more than likely cheap ball. Can't remember. Anyways I figured 115gr Critical Defense she could handle. If not have you tested the Critical Defense lite? 90 gr I think? Thanks in advance.

[@antoniotula262]

​@@pewpewTNYup, G28

[@l.a.3887]

Both rounds did a great job for the 380 as always a fantastic video thanks Mr. Tools extreme defender of course 👏

[@OldTimeRevolver]

Great video Tools, My EDC is an LCR .38 special +P but I will often have my LCP .380 for backup so I find these tests very useful.

[@stevenabshire]

Where can I buy one of those kick ass hats?

[@ToolsandTargets]

It's actually Cleetus Mcfarland branded. He's a car youtuber.😎👍

[@GreyShooter]

Of those 2, I'd go with the Underwood. If I were carrying my Tisas , I'd carry Winchester white box. It's got a 3.9 inch barrel. But my EDC is a G 33 with Underwood 124 grain Plenty of penetration and expansion with with it. Great test, as usual. Keep it up.👍👊

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir.😎👊

[@won8135]

They are similar, damage and penetration. I have both ammo types and have run over 200 through my 380 pistols. The difference, and its a big one, is that the underwood xd has misfed in all 3 of my pistols. G42, lcp max, kahr cw380. Only a handful of times but its happened. The arx has yet to misfeed. Clean in all 3. 9mm too. Ive had a few underwood jams where the arx always run smoothly. I run the arx on those grounds. Thanks Tools. Appreciate you.

[@LogisticallyMisrepresented]

The arx does seem slick in the feed process. I use it also when the price isn't inflated.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Good to know.😎👍

[@dougcutler4948]

Good to know. I don't want my wife EDC to malfunction.

[@billjohnsonseattle]

Try the Underwood XD Platinum versions…. They have a coating that is supposed to reduce feeding issues & prevent oxidation of the copper bullets.

[@Mbartel500]

Nice comparison, I favor the Underwood ammo in this test for the extra penetration. Underwood also makes a 100 grain hard-cast load, that should do very well in the gel. Don't know if you've tested it yet, but a comparison between the regular and +p version of the 100 gr. hard cast would make an excellent future .380 video. I'm still amazed at how clear and clean you keep your gel blocks.

[@ToolsandTargets]

I tested that hardcast .380 bill sent not too long ago. I need to check out some more. Appreciate ya, my friend!😎👊

[@danlindgren4290]

If I remember right, that +P hardcast went through both blocks and exited with velocity. I wouldn’t carry it. I bought 3 boxes before I saw the video. I’ll probably see how many water jugs it will go through.

[@louisirwin2474]

Always appreciate the demonstration, his reviewing the results , and really great enjoyable way he delivers the show. And, yeah, his marksmanship is just amazing.

[@tominnorcal]

That ARX was sold as Ruger ammo a few years back but for some reason Ruger stopped selling it. I tried some. Tended to shoot low in some guns and okay in others. Pretty good stuff in terms of reliability. I’ll guess the ARX is the same stuff.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Someone else mentioned that too. Pretty interesting.😎👍

[@majoroz4876]

Could you discern any DIFFERENCE in recoil between the two loads ?

[@johnnyv.223]

Great comparison, Tools. You never disappoint. I'm thinking(dangerous, I know) that the ARX Inceptors might be a good choice if someone's wanting something that doesn't over-penetrate, like in an apartment building or elsewhere, to minimize collateral damage while defending.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Appreciate that, my friend.😎👊

[@Bob-lq9ys]

Good test, not real bad for 380, thanks for sharing

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir.😎👊

[@timmothyheroux]

Thank you for all the 380 testing with the short barrel LCP and LCP max. And the comparison using the longer 380 EZ to show what we are loosing on velocity and expansion from using the smaller LCP. ❤

[@jwash3rd]

I like the ARX in my tiny Taurus TCP because of the light recoil. I think that they're just hole-pokers.

[@YellowHammer26]

👍👍appreciate the test, if I owned a 380 I would use either one of these. I use the extreme defender in 38 spl.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Nice. I need to do some updated .38 tests.

[@Opiemus]

They both look pretty good to me, my problem is that I can't find any in my area. 🤔 By the way I watch you religiously and I appreciate what you're doing. I carry my LCP Max with me everywhere although I've got several other pistols including a Glock 43x they're just too big to carry in the front pocket. I went with the Galloway Precision Sigurd trigger along with a 13 lb spring and a stainless steel guide rod. Probably the best money I've spent so far on my LCP Max. 👍

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir. Upgrading the trigger on this thing makes a huge difference.😎👍

[@michaellavaughnrobinson]

Love the 380 test man, i carry a bodyguard and youve saved me money and taught me a lot, thanks again pard.

[@RichardCranium321]

While at the range recently I was trying the Dicken's drill & I was horrified by my shot placement with the first mag of 115fmj from my Glock 19 clone, at 40 yds I only put 6 out of 10 on the PAPER of a standard silhouette and only 4 of those actually in the silhouette, but no Azone hits and 4 complete misses. I am a fairly good pistol shot so I thought maybe it was just cheap FMJ so I tried it again with S&B 115gr and similar, disappointing results... so I loaded up 10 rounds of my carry load: 90gr +P Xtreme defender 9mm. This time I put all 10 rounds inside of a 6" circle, 3 rounds were touching. Then, this week I saw a video where a guy couldn't hit steel torso at 50yds with his $5000 2011 when using 115 ball, but nailed it when using 124gr FMJ and 90gr copper solids. Could you possibly do more (3-5 round) distance shots on steel torso in that 50-70yd range when testing defensive loads like these? Everyone usually focuses on terminal ballistics inside 30 feet, but we're seeing further engagements with smaller pistols (45yds/Glock 43x) which means accuracy and consistency of ammo is more important than ever. Unfortunately it gets expensive to train with your defensive loads.

[@Bistoink2009]

I could watch these things all day! These are definitely the most solid ammo tests on KZbin, IMO, and the most entertaining. I'm unconvinced that these fluted rounds are an improvement over the better performing JHP's, but I give credit for innovation and trying a new idea. Ayoob seems to like them for the .380, for whatever that's worth.

[@btyhntr]

I have a bersa thunder 380 for my edc. It has a 3.5 inch barrel, longer than the max. I always carry the underwood extreme defender ammunition, it's my first choice for 380 ammunition.

[@tundranomad]

Not much of a .380 fan, but I love your channel! Keep it up!

[@ToolsandTargets]

Appreciate that, brother.😎👊

[@chretired]

Interesting test results Tools. Just wish some manufacture would produce a round for these small short barreled firearms. We need good speed, bullet weight, and penetration. Maybe someday. Thanks again Tools. You be the man. Be vigilant and always be safe my friend.

[@brianc1701]

Really enjoy your content, thanks for another great 380 test! Would have liked to have seen a comparison between the performance of the LCP Max and your 380EZ to see how much difference the longer barrel would make.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Appreciate that. 😎👍

[@chrismorley9127]

I'm with you, FMJ for my 380 pocket rocket! Sometimes I'll carry the EXD. Thanks Tool.👍🇺🇸

[@ToolsandTargets]

Appreciate ya, brother!😎👊

[@paulprenzlow2920]

I run an intercepter first it chambers better from the pull back underwood after that for the speed and it is more fluted both will probably work on bearers and the distance I consider a threat out in the public. Home defense mosburg 500 double 00 buck. We’ll have a 9 as well in truck. 380 pocket carry. Be safe my brother. Tools you the man. Showing the love from Mississippi

[@hoffpbass]

Tools, feel free to rant any day. You usually have me rolling 🤣 The hollow back of the XDefender will ensure the lighter portion of the projectile will drag behind the mass -- keeping it from tumbling. As usual, I don't have a 380, but i would use the Underwoods all day.

[@ToolsandTargets]

😆😆😆

[@davidjernigan7576]

Surprising the Labradar picked up the inceptor all the way out to 50 yards being they are that funky copper polymer composition

[@ToolsandTargets]

I was surprised at that myself.

[@charlesmckinley29]

Tools your going to have to start a chart like the “Torque Test Channel” to rank and keep track of the various ammos you test. Thanks for all your work bringing us great content.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you sir. Would have been a lot easier to start that from the beginning. Now the backlog is huge.😆😆😆

[@charlesmckinley29]

@@ToolsandTargets I’m sure there is a retired data geek that is subscribed. Ask if someone would do it.

[@raybo34]

I would choose the ARX simply because of the shape of the round looks like it would feed better than those squared edges on the Underwood. The 380 round I like the best is the Defiant TCX if I am going to pay any kind of premium for a 380 round. I still think the flat nose FMJ gets the job done in 380.

[@TheRealJBMcMunn]

RNFP is highly under-rated. I think the meplat provides similar effect as fluted rounds for a far lower price.

[@Jeremy_Walker]

That’s funny… exactly what I’m looking at. What looks like it’d feed best.

[@cw2a]

I grabbed a few boxes of these projectiles for reloading few years back. I have a couple calibers they shoot pretty well. ❤❤❤

[@ToolsandTargets]

Pretty interesting stuff.

[@cw2a]

@@ToolsandTargets I have wanted ta push the lil 380 bullets hard in the 9x45...

[@pewpewTN]

I bought a bunch of those ARX rounds for plinking yesterday. They were actually cheaper than normal FMJs. It was $19.99 for a box of 50 FMJ's & $8.99 for a box of 25 of the ARX. I also bought a few boxes of the ARX in .45 ACP, but they only have 20 per box.

[@ToolsandTargets]

They are definitely priced nice.😎👊

[@MeMadeIt]

Another good test, Tools! 👍 I've got a small stockpile of Xtreme Defenders and Xtreme Penetrators - Defenders for Summer, Penetrators when the winter coats come out. Other than those, I'm with you Tools, I would be carrying flat-nose FMJ in my Sig P365-380 and EZ380. For me, no JHP has proven reliable enough in 380. They either expand and fail to penetrate sufficiently or fail to expand and act like an FMJ. If I'm paying a premium for ammo, I too expect it to do as it claims 99% of the time. I luv the HST in my AR9, 9mm pistols, and 45 ACP pistols, but not in my 380. 😞

[@ToolsandTargets]

Agreed. Thank you sir.😎👊

[@billys4625]

Would be a awesome test to see which is better between the Inceptor in 380 9mm and 40s&w vs the NovX engagement extreme in the three cal. to see which performs better

[@jinyatta4103]

I always enjoy the fact that you continue to test "mouse gun" calibers, as next week I'll be picking up a Beretta Tomcat and my Christmas gift to myself is going to be a Beretta 80X Cheetah.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Nice. Love my fde Tomcat. I saw they have some good rebates right now.

[@g54b95]

I EDC a Tomcat Covert. DeSantis makes a great pocket holster for it with little rubber nubs all over it. It works better than the Sticky holster I tried.

[@pewpewTN]

​@@melissasmess2773 Lmao, please stop believing Fuddlore. No round is bouncing off a leather jacket, not even .22 Short. Unless you're shooting at a few hundred yards. The frame cracking thing was at higher round counts of the original model. They fixed that problem a long time ago.

[@TheZombieburner]

@@pewpewTN Anybody who thinks a 32 ACP is gonna bounce off a leather jacket is smoking the electric lettuce. As for the frame cracking, I didn't know they'd fixed it, but glad to hear, I'll pick one up.

[@robwilson3749]

Merry Christmas.

[@tonycolca2241]

Thanks for doing all this testing very interesting it appears that some ammo may have a powder better suited for a short barrel gun.

[@farmerbob7585]

Appreciate all your videos, but especially your .380 reviews. It’s my every day go-to. And don’t ever get rid of that hat!!

[@chrissewell1608]

I think its great to see manufactures trying new bullet designs, to make improvements. I wonder if someone will make a segmented bullet like these, that would pentrate, expand, then explode into a conical pattern? Maybe they have already?

[@zhukov1224]

i am from belize, i recently bought a ruger lcp max 380, it shoots perfect, 100% acurate, shots go exactly as aimed, the sight are awesome, very controlable weapon, not snappy at all, exellent trigger, 24 inch penetration using seiler & belot fmj round nose ammo, no stoppages, deadly and acurate at 15 yards, ruger lcp max is a very high quality product..kudos to ruger!!!

[@ronaldbarnes8302]

Very similar performance. Not a huge fan of light per caliber projectiles but not bad for a 380. Thanks for another awesome jelly test Tools!

[@ToolsandTargets]

Appreciate ya, brother!😎👊

[@jmichaelcarbonniere9549]

Great test, Brian! While I expect the ARX will do the job in most instances, I wonder about it's ability to withstand extreme cold and barriers. It doesn't usually get *that* cold here very often but all it takes is once... so I'll be sticking with the Lehigh copper bullet. I'm actually getting an average of 1200 fps out my dinky AMT Backup, which really surprised me, although I am using the +P version. Still, these rounds are very shootable considering their velocity. Once the bullets slow down below 800 fps they will no longer throw gel or tissue out of the track, so if they tumble after that point it's actually a good thing as it creates a slightly larger wound channel. By the way, those recovered bullets are reloadable! I reloaded a 90 gr 9mm bullet 5 times before I lost it out the top of my test rig! That's 6 times that bullet was fired! I do my best to recover all of my Extreme Defender bullets whenever possible! Cheers, jc

[@cgsimons1187]

Gun Sam made a recent video where he uncovered what is actually going on with these fluted tip bullets. It happens so fast that we are unable to see it without a high-speed camera to capture the footage and play it back in slow motion. Apparently, when these bullets strike the gel, the flutes destabilize them, and they tumble. So, the tumbling is what causes the damage in the gel and reduces their penetration over a typical FMJ. The two bullets in your test for this video being found backwards in the gel was beyond mere coincidence. The length of these bullets is definitely a relevant measurement, and it is nice that you did that. 👍

[@ToolsandTargets]

They're not meant to tumble. That's not a "feature" but bad stabilization that isn't meant to happen. There are manufacturer and other high-speed videos out for years that show this. Just another reason I've never really been 100% sold on the stuff.

[@rico300zx]

I’m definitely sticking with the extreme defender. Then the second choice would be Winchester white box per year recommendations.

[@pcrealty]

Both can do the job, I reserve the 380's for my daughters. We keep the ARX's in the Smith & Wesson M & P 380 Shield. Thanks for the comparison.

[@007twm]

I'd be happy with either one but they aren't available in my local gun stores. Underwood would be my first choice however. Thanks for the review.

[@PatriotPaulUSA]

I still like the solid copper, Le High, Underwood, Wilson Combat bullet. Especially for wintertime carry. Like Tools said, these are not fazed by clothing at all. (The Underwood loading specifically, seems to be the best FPS)

[@jameslooker4791]

Fluted bullets mostly cause damage from their rotational energy. The flutes still cut and tear as they tumble. 1100ft/sec=13,200in/sec 1:10" Twist=1 rev/10in 13,200/10=1,320rev/sec=79,200 RPM

[@tinkertalksguns7289]

Good test. My only thought is I've seen ARX bullets fragment in gel and I worry about what would happen against bone. I think I would err on the side of the solid copper round.

[@tinkertalksguns7289]

BTW I had a friend test some 9mm Extreme Defenders on feral hogs. He said the tissue damage was consistent with that produced by a 9mm JHP, so these do seem to work in tissue as well as gel.

[@pewpewTN]

​@@tinkertalksguns7289They've been tested in tissue several times that have been documented, so I'm pretty confident that they do.

[@ToolsandTargets]

😎👊

[@steveh7108]

I've been waiting for this comparison for a couple of years now. As well as someone to do some accuracy tests with the super lightweight rounds.

[@ToolsandTargets]

I don't know if I'm the one to do accuracy tests. I'm definitely not too great with this LCP.😆

[@steveh7108]

@@ToolsandTargets 😊👍

[@Dwayne7834]

Thanks for the gel test. Both was good the underwood seems to be a little better. 👍

[@trustnot9]

Great test, and a day after i picked up a glock 42. I'm going to order a box of the underwood. Thanks for a great video and it helped me decide on the rounds i'll be carrying in my backup 42. Good job as always.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Nice. Thank you sir.😎👊

[@trustnot9]

@@ToolsandTargets Your welcome. Your info helped me alot. 👍👍👍

[@allenbolen9705]

I have some of both of these. I only payed 9.99 for the ARX.25.00 for extrem defender they are + p. Little more penetration with the + p. Another great test!

[@thecocooreo]

I carry my G42 often with Underwood Xtreme Defender, it's great little round for .380

[@marlow769]

The tumbling of the X-Treme Defender bullets isn’t too concerning until you’re trying to hit something out past 25 yards or so when a tumbling bullet is like throwing a knuckle ball. Hitting a charging bear is going to be difficult enough without the bullet floating all over the place. I wonder if the larger calibers (10mm) have the same tumbling issue.

[@shevetlevi2821]

This was exactly the comparison gel test that I wanted to see. Thank you sir.

[@moshedayan9049]

More more more!! Thank You Have you ever shot 45 supers? Thank You

[@ToolsandTargets]

I haven't.

[@googoo-gjoob]

11:47 the ARX surprised me. almost as good as the Xdef. have you done (if so, i missed it) a head to head ARX vs Xdef in 9mm? id love to see that. you & i both love the HST but due to excellent performance in the gel AND significant weight savings, i now carry the 68gr Xdef.

[@3rdpig]

Honestly, I'm not sure either of them are enough better than FMJ in 380 to warrant the cost. If I had to pick one of them I think I'd pick the one that was on sale. The only reason I'd carry a 380 at this point in my life is either to have a backup or loaner gun or if I needed deep concealment. Other than that, my mouse guns gather dust in the safe.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Yeah, hard to really justify the cost difference.

[@palmettocynic8482]

I load the underwood XDefender 68 gr in +P in my Springfield 911 380 and in the spouse's Ruger LCP purse gun. The lighter bullet also cuts the weight of the entire package when carrying.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Nice 😎👊

[@Aaron48219]

AWESOME! I've been waiting for this video, you know I love some good .380!

[@walterjohnson2031]

Anytime you fire the same bore size , weight range and velocity performance will be very similar. I have found little difference in performance as long as velocity is within 10 percent. Bullet weight starts to make a difference only after the range increases. However anytime you have a heavier bullet at the same velocity as a lighter bullet, the heavier bullet will always outperform the lighter bullet. In 380 the Underwood 90 grain Lehigh Bullet that makes 1185 fps from a 3.8 inch barrel is all a 380 can offer. At normal pistol combat ranges it all you will need unless you’re a big game hunter.

[@lordravenblade]

Also, everything I've seen recommends the Xtreme Penetrator specifically because of the reason you said.

[@kentwilliams3326]

The performance of the ARX would depend upon the rifling because the ARX, because if it's shape, will favor one rifling rotation and not the other. Also, the +P .380 Underwood lists the muzzle velocity as being 1400 f/s. 👍

[@peady64]

You're the best ballistics tester on all of KZbin. Fear the Jelly Contraption!!!

[@joemokrzycki2006]

Congrats on the 50k Brother

[@ToolsandTargets]

Thank you again for every time, my friend!😎👊

[@chrisryan8863]

Hi. I am newer to your channel and have appreciated your channel. I use the Underwood extreme defenders in all my pistols as primary carry. I usually use the heavier grain ones for the 380 though because the pounds of pressure on the very low grain is really low (about 200 pounds or so).

[@GlennJudah]

Much thanks for the testing ! Always great and useful information!

[@ToolsandTargets]

Appreciate ya!😎👊

[@sparhawk5515]

Currently I use the extreme penetrator but I appreciate the comparison. I would use the defender over the inceptor. Would you consider redoing the .45 acp with ammo inc jhp? I was impressed with its performance and price. Unfortunately you did it without cloth on the gel. That seems to make a big difference.

[@ToolsandTargets]

Should be able to handle that. Any certain barrel length?

[@sparhawk5515]

I have a fairy’s with a 3.5 for concealed, but I’m more interested in the five inch barrel if I had to choose since that’s the length of my “I mean business “ firearm. 🤕

[@TNcountryside]

Very informative. Thank you, sir. I just bought some ARX.

[@johndilday1846]

I have the ARX currently for my wife’s EZ pistol. It seems to be more accurate and offers less recoil for her. She is very recoil sensitive so that’s what I have her pistol loaded with. I have heard that these rounds were designed to offer more damage than regular FMJ in flesh. .380 is not known for expansion, so it doesn’t concern me that these didn’t expand at all. I wonder if the Tumble Upon Impact rounds might be a better choice?

[@donniejobe5662]

Great review … Ruger .380 Max is my favorite backup gun to my G48 MOS.

[@gsmith4295]

Thanks for your .380 ammo testing especially with the LCP Max. I carry my LCP Max with the NOVX engagement extreme and Liberty civil defense rounds alternated in the mag so I can get the best of both worlds of penetration and fragmentation. Both shoot well out of the Max. The NOVX is pretty much the same round as the ARX. People say you shouldnt alternate rounds because it makes you look like a criminal... well most criminals arent buying expensive ass rounds and I rather have the best defensive rounds i can carry when carrying my Max. plus the light rounds keep the gun nice and light.

[@billdye3530]

Tough to choose between these two. Speed was good & at about 3 to 6 inches in both had a good wound cavity. Just don't like the tumbling. I would stick with the Underwood Black Cherry Hardcast for penetration. Close on these. Thanks. 👍 🙏

[@ToolsandTargets]

These had almost as much as the hardcast...🤣🤣🤣

[@billdye3530]

​​@@ToolsandTargetsDidn't they name a cereal after these rounds that tumble Flute Loops. 😂😂

[@darkdaze3860]

Nice shooting! I heard it ping the steel too!

[@ThatsOPV]

i have over 300 rounds through my max. over 300 on my glock 26. the ego in me wants to just keep 26 as edc but my range data shows im waayyyy more accurate with the lcp max (about 20%). that reasoning and the fact its more comfortable to carry is why i keep the lcp max as my appendix carry. the glock 26 will remain in the bag as my plan b or backup. im still going to carry both. but these videos help me alot . once im 300 rounds through this dagger itll be my bag gun. longer barrel and all.

[@Raphael-eu7cw]

I keep Ruger lcp Max in my pocket loaded with underwood Xtreme Defender Ammunition. I'm confident in close range it will do the job. I think the ARX will do the job as well. I do notice trigger pinch with stock trigger so I'm considering the trigger and spring upgrade.

[@ToolsandTargets]

The trigger upgrades are totally worth it and very easy to install with their video.😎👊

[@mikebrown9997]

I carry the .380 either in my back pocket or an ankle holster if I am using my shoulder harness or on my side carry.

[@ToolsandTargets]

😎👊

[@CornFedGrimlin]

good video. Neither round was super impressive, but either would do the trick Underwood a bit more impressive, but their heavier option would be my preferred choice