Is it safe to charge Li-Ion packs on a lipo setting?

[@TAGE_FPV]

how can this video be made at the PERFECT time for my new lion packs! Thanks Bruce! you rock

[@sleepingbearffg5008]

Only battery to fly long distance..

[@jeramboo8511]

@@sleepingbearffg5008 why only? I can fly 6km + and 20minuts with gopro on a lipo

[@DanielBerzinskas]

lion 🦁 it's li-ion

[@TAGE_FPV]

@@jeramboo8511 well this is two years late, but with Li-on packs, I'm doing close to 20km, 30 minute flights cruising at 110mph

[@allennickles3970]

I can definitely validate this! I bought two Auline 4s Lion packs for my Dji goggles to run on. I been charging them on 1.5/2.amps Lipo settings at 4.2v and it has reduced there life significantly. Versus two other 4s Samsung 18650 packs i built at the same time I bought the Auline packs.I been charging the Samsung 4s packs on strictly on Lion 4.1v .And now the Samsung packs out performed the Auline packs. So it definitely reduces the packs life span. Good video Bruce!

[@fennz]

I've just started using Li-Ion packs and wondered about all of the conflicting information. Thanks a lot Bruce, for once again clarifying things

[@andytaylor3321]

thanks again from canada i just got the zohd li ion pack and didnt know wat was goin on huge help thank u Bruce

[@MnPaul1]

Pretty nifty pack you have built up there Bruce. It needs a "Xjet rules" label.

[@rjung_ch]

👍

[@johnnymaynard299]

You my friend are always informative and that's so much for your time spent putting these video's out . I've learned a lot of good things over the years watching your youtube . You are the best my friend !

[@johnnymaynard299]

Thank's so much !

[@ab_customz_llc]

Thanks for the info. It was good to see that I can charge my li-ion battery on my lipo charger that does not have provisions to charge li-ion packs.

[@mickelson8332]

Thanks Bruce, that's quite clear and has explained why I have only got 87% out of my first Li Ion battery charge. Thanks mate. Mick UK

[@davincifpv3983]

Very very helpful. Please keep on the good work!! Cheers from Auckland and Kia Kaha

[@ConstantineCraft]

Good to know! Thank you for educating me!

[@ficosk8]

I have soldered my first 21700 - 6S pack thanks to your tips :D

[@Ra-zor]

Finally, someone else telling people this information about Li-Ion. Been telling people this for years, and for some reason they wont listen and still charge to 4.2v and discharge to 3v and expect 500+ life cycle but will be lucky to hit a hundred - and then complain!, where as a 90% charge and 30% discharge (even 20%) will hit 800+ cycles easily.

[@yash_ar]

When you say 20% discharge do you mean don't let the pack go less than 20% before charging? Or you mean don't charge unless you're down to 20% or less??

[@Ra-zor]

@@yash_ar Don't let the pack go below 20% before charging... Also if possible draw as little current as possible while discharging, and never meet or exceed a packs rated discharge current.

[@yash_ar]

@@Ra-zor thanks

[@yash_ar]

@@Ra-zor let me ask you something else, do you know if I can swap out a 3.7v Lipo for a 3.7 Li-on in a LED flashlight and expect the flashlight's built-in charger to charge the new Li-on without issue or is this not going to work?

[@Ra-zor]

@@yash_ar If the fully charge end voltage of the new Li-Ion is the same as the old Lipo (usually 4.2v but double check how your torch works), and the new Li-Ion capacity rating is equal to or greater than the old Lipo (C rating), then there should in theory be no problem (but always monitor the first few charge cycle anyway for heat etc...). You need the new cell to have the same charged cut off voltage as the old cell, and same discharge voltage (or lower) and be able to handle the same bulk charge current as the old cell. Also the battery monitor in the torch will probably be a bit off as it will be calibrated to Lipo, with the meter showing a possible slower or more rapid drop off at the upper / lower end of the discharge cycle... Of course everyone modifies anything at their own risk 🙂...

[@LZRFPV]

Thanks for sharing! Was just about to charge my first Li-Ion and I saw the 4.1 end voltage and I had to do some research

[@baggszilla]

Yeah me too! My iCharger allows me to up the end voltage to 4.2 with a little warning label next to it. So I'm going to charge my LiIon pack on LiIon charge mode but up the end voltage to 4.2/cell.

[@achintyapednekar4842]

Thanks man that was a great informational video. I am using a pro range 3s2p 5000mah 18650 battery pack for my underwater rov project and do not have a dedicated li ion charger, fortunately my college has a li po balance charger so i can temporarily make use of that and charge my battery at 3amps. Thanks a lot man!!

[@CliffHarveyRCPlanes]

Very informative Bruce, when I saw the 'Ad in 5 secs' pop up I thought this isn't right then the Patreon Zapper appeared 👍Brilliant stuff, perhaps a zap sound effect would be good as well 😁

[@grumpyrse]

Super advice Bruce as always. Keep on with the good work.

[@raffman4266]

What a very beautiful and informative vlog!!! Thank you sir!!

[@alexgrovejones]

Thank you so much! This is exactly the video I needed and answered all the questions I had plus more!

[@alphanationgaming5481]

Helpful thanks for the video!

[@rctom1]

Good explanation , for more punch I can recomment the Molicel INR21700-P-42A . Of course the weight is a bit higher but you can pull 45 A constant/peak 70A with 4000mah capacity. In the 18650 category the VTC6 with 30 A and 3000mah is best choice imo.

[@vulturedroid9804]

Handy info from a trusted source sauce you choose hehe

[@terryblackman6217]

Thanks for sharing this Bruce. 👍

[@revb0]

Spot on Bruce, great presentation and info.

[@MCsCreations]

Great tips, Bruce! Thanks a lot! 😃 Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

[@Meckamatt]

Most new lipo chargers can be changed in settings for the cut off voltage and also charge voltage comes mostly to temperature hotter conditions mean higher peaks on packs. Thanx for all the vids xjet 🤙

[@nikolajc7617]

Thats not whats it about.

[@Angelum_Band]

Please do a video on LTO batteries. I would like to hear your opinion abut them.

[@barrelracer318]

Extremely informative. Was just charging my my traxxas 3c lipo, and I noted that pack bloated a slight amount. I quickly disconnected it and made a salt water bath for it. It was a used battery given to me, so I don't know it's history. I went to the local hobby shop and even the attendant there said how much he hates lipo batteries. I agreed as I have a nimh pack I purchased in 2012 that I still can use today. I maintained it properly, and my cc02 with its sport tuned motor gives me about 1h45m dive time consistently. I asked the dude if he sold li-on batteries. He said no, and didn't know if they made them for rc or not. I may go and look for some. My aged onyx 5000mah 7.2 nimh pack is showing its age slightly, and now I am down a traxxas pack. So I may be doing some battery hunting.

[@stefanhenningsson6304]

Great information. When are you going to put up your review of the Jumper T Lite?

[@RCModelReviews]

Probably this week... unfortunately I lost an SD card with lots of my review stuff on it so I'm re-shooting stuff :(

[@stefanhenningsson6304]

@@RCModelReviews great news, not that you lost your SD card but that it's coming. Enjoy your Sunday evening!

[@paulcucit2786]

SD cards often go missing eh! I heard that someone found yours and posted the footage on their channel (with a disclaimer that it's not theirs of course).

[@xboxice2005]

Charge on lipo settings with those cell for years no issues,but I do agree with the information in this video 😊

[@juliancroft4288]

Top man Bruce.

[@Jetsect9]

Your videos are the best! Thnx learned a lot

[@tamilkeerthi]

All your video are very useful ad thoughtful. Thanks for this as well.

[@pofotiouzois]

Wow! Very helpful. Thank you

[@user-rs8zg8ey2b]

Regarding long range, rcg guy gtrick90, built a 4S2P (4s-7000) pack and put it in his wing wing z84 (840mm foam wing), he flew a ardupilot autonomous mission over the ocean, 50 miles out, and 50 miles back (100 miles total) in 4 hours, with a quad 1750kv motor, pretty impressive.

[@stefangranath3841]

Love this, thank you!

[@fpvmoss-o9i]

That was super helpful thankyou

[@perryg8383]

Thanks for all this info!

[@paulizzo2605]

Hello Bruce, thanks for this video. very clear. However I wish to know how do you connect the wires with the connector to the lithium batteries f these are still separate, please?

[@dylanforney780]

Bruce, Have you tried the Molicell P45’s ? I’m building some 3 and 4s packs soon. They have yielded impressive results for the ducted fan gurus. Thanks for your wealth of knowledge.

[@tramsgar]

Using a script!! Love it! Thanks, Bruce.

[@qck57594]

Great Info thank you.

[@GTARC_au]

Excellent info mate. Cheers. 👍🍻

[@baggszilla]

Thanks Bruce! My iCharger allows me to up the end voltage to 4.2 with a little warning label next to it. So I'm going to charge my LiIon pack on LiIon charge mode but up the end voltage to 4.2/cell.

[@angelisfpv]

I’ve been waiting for this video for so long!

[@bugre29]

Thanks, good knowledge!

[@simonsutherland814]

Excellent thank you 👌🏻

[@steveblackbird]

Awesome info Bruce and LiPo/Lilo/LiFe safety should always be #1!! People if you've ever seen a fully charged 6S 5500 Mah battery go up....It's frightening......! ***EDIT*** Most of my Li-Ion packs are protected by a small circuit on the battery itself (So they are slightly longer) so it doesn't really include me as I have an extra level of protection built in with mine. I've always used the appropriate settings as I didn't know, the chemistry had changed slightly with Lithium-Ion batteries (18650's etc) Never really do long range stuff... too scared I'll lose a model lol. I use them in near everything... torches/work lights.. cheap chinaquads (Great conversion!!!), battery banks. I did learn something today though...lol. Check the batteries data sheet.! Well if I'm not mistaken, most electric cars use these cells in massive banks to power them.. (As having one huge battery unit, under the occupants of said car would literally be a class action waiting to happen...) Let's not forget the humble Laptop computer. Powering those, for what 25+ years? Solid advice, as always mate and Thank you...

[@Zener_Diode]

I learned something, thanks!

[@lasersbee]

Good Tutorial Bruce....

[@JESchnake]

Great informational video. Thank you

[@loc4725]

So charging (not discharging!) LiPo's on the Lion setting is a good idea for cell / pack longevity?

[@JimBoomer]

Absolutely! It just depends on your use again. I mostly charge my FPV batteries to 4.2v just because the super short flight times but a lot of my RC car batteries I usually only charge to 4.1v since RC cars last so long on a charge.

[@loc4725]

@@JimBoomer Excellent, thanks! I was a bit concerned because LiPo's have a specific charge cycle but if it's the same just with different terminal voltages then I'll give it a go.

[@1Hippo]

Yes, all Lithium batteries use the simple CC-CV charging method, so it is basically just a power supply with current and voltage limits (and BMS/balancer for multi cell). Most chargers allow to set the current and realize the voltage limit in these LiXX profiles, but on some you can also configure custom voltage limits, that is the only differences between profiles. PB is similar, only NiMH charging is completely different (delta peak detection). A downside with lower voltage limits is that it takes more time, even though it puts less energy in. Depending on the internal cell resistance it will spend much more time in the CV phase and low current. That is why like to use 4.2V instead, but stop charging early, then the cell voltage drops down to about 4.1V after a few seconds. Still charge it fully from time to time and let the balancer do it's job to make the cells equal. This trick is often used in modern consumer electronics, the battery controller monitors the pack capacity and stops the charging already when the expected capacity is reached, to skip the lengthy CV phase for the last few percent and improve longevity at least a bit with lower idle voltages. They go up to 4.4V while charging though, which wipes out all longevity improvements there...

[@johnking975]

Thank you for making this video!

[@olafschermann1592]

Charging to 4.1V extends longterm life significantly. Thinkpad notebooks have a software where you can limit the charge. I set it to 80% max. and after 8 years still had 2h runtime. Regular users have 50% runtime after 2 years.

[@mikeking1951]

thanks for that

[@ashleyarundel3134]

Nice one Bruce!!

[@josemarb]

Thanks a lot to clarify on this

[@dannyb2349080]

Great video, I’m new to the hobby and this helped me out a lot . Batteries are too expensive to burn them up because of a lack of knowledge. Thanks for the great video

[@nick92065]

Thanks for the information I have two battery chargers neither one has a setting for lithium-ion. Only for Lithium Polymer.

[@Steve-O_FPV]

Thank you. What about parallel charging LiIon?

[@petebuttons210]

Very useful info. Thanks.

[@Rcschim]

just found this vid because I wanted to know what ppl charger their "modern" liIons at. I often set 4.18 as endVolts - since those last 0.02v seem to take forever on the VTC6 at least. I have a huge list of 6S packs for 7" longrange drones now - and I noticed that LiPoHV have a pretty decent WH to weight ratio - close to the LiIon ones! Do you have experience with HV lipos? Is the overcharging to 4.35 very bad for those cells (even if they are made for this - it's probbably just a marketing thing and they will wear out sooner than normal Lipos?) thanks greets, Mario

[@k1ortia]

Excellent explanation. Would i be right in saying i need to charge my Li-ion packs and half their current capacity? 10500mah would be charged at 5250mah or 5.2amps? cheers

[@FlyingFun.]

Spot on, import addition is storing fully charged is very bad for battery so store at 50% and charge just before use is best,requires some planning and not always practical but most damage is done to a cell whilst sitting fully charged for long periods.

[@justinelaceup7553]

Almost in a perfect timing💯⚡

[@dadabooey]

Very helpful video 👍 great information.

[@Migueldeservantes]

Thank you very much! I was really needing to know that!

[@atomicskull6405]

Hey Bruce have you seen the lipo powered mini spot welders for making li-ion packs that have been showing up on Bangood and elsewhere lately? They typically cost $30-$50 and from what I have seen on various KZbin reviews they actually work well.

[@alphacharliekilo5976]

When you measure internal resistance what values should cause concern? Values are typically much higher than lipo even when new.

[@RCModelReviews]

If my Li-Ion cells start to get above 22mOhm then I consider them to be getting tired. Of course when measured on *my* charger -- different brand chargers can produce wildly different figures for internal resistance because it's a figure that depends very much on the state of charge and the current being used to measure that IR.

[@franciswong26]

@@RCModelReviews Hello! This is a great video! Regarding to the internal resistance, I found the value is different when in charging and not in charging. So which one should we take care of? And at which value, for LiPo and Lion, should we need to consider replacing them? Thank you!

[@albertburton4151]

Great instructional video. My 26000 2 cell Li-Io battery does not have a balance plug. When I set my charger to charge it, it says connection error. How do I charge this battery?

[@wrstew1272]

Bruce- where do you source these good cells? Great stuff you are doing!

[@RCModelReviews]

Here in New Zealand I sourced my LG HG2 cells from PBTech. I couldn't get any of the Sony cells, everyone has sold out.

[@MartinVenter371]

Very nice video!

[@bobbybanks1385]

U have a charger suggestion I got to clones and the let me down both times

[@richardkelly5522]

Very interesting thank you for information

[@netherlander3996]

Keep on the good RC work

[@jalpa9642]

Thanks that information that's really helpful to everyone......! =)

[@endtimes5288]

That's useful thanks much

[@trevorimpulsebuyguy6398]

Great video! Please make more

[@rougeneon1997]

Also. I bet a FPV pulse-jet plane video would be epic. Do you still have any?

[@RCModelReviews]

Shhh... things are happening... :-)

[@maverickswe]

On the Isdt chargers you can change final charge voltage in the different battery settings. Final voltage is key not what profile you use on charger.

[@P-Bee]

Many modern chargers let you tweak the desired end voltage for each battery type. So for example on my ISDT charger I can set my LiPo batteries to charge to a maximum of 4.15V. I always do that when charging the night before flying because the less time spent at 100% the better. It only makes a difference of a few seconds of flight time but the batteries will likely have a much better lifespan. My best batteries are LiHV (4.35V per cell) that I have never charged above about 4.20V. They are 4 years old seem like new.

[@damianwyczakowski2491]

Did you use balance charge for it ?

[@AEROERGO]

Very useful video Bruce!, i wonder if you can explain how to recycle them from laptops battery packs, i have few of them and very ofter they just have one bad cell and the rest are ok for make a pack like yours. Thanks!!

[@Meonlymeagain]

I have got 100 or so cells for used laptop batteries and yes get about 75% that can be used again but many of the cells have specs that indicate discharge rates less than 5amps max. I do not think you would get much life out of recycled laptop cells if used as high amp draw applications. It could potentially cause battery failure with bad consequences.

[@RCModelReviews]

as chico7000 says, laptop batteries tend to be low-current types and some of the older ones may even be 4.1V cells. They're fine for using in transmitters or as a pack for your FPV goggles but I wouldn't use them for a flight pack.

[@AEROERGO]

@@RCModelReviews I see, so which Batteries do you recommend? i saw many counterfit ones in china´s web shops, so i don´t trust on them , and i can say the same for the packs i already made, now i am using them for the benchwork camera and maybe to power a slope glider.

[@MickRatanapanyo]

Just got my first LR 3200mAh 4S1P packs today! Can't thank you enough for this video Bruce. I'm curious about charging/discharging in parallel like LiPos.. can this be done?

[@TheNavyseamonkey]

I like recovering knackered packs on a nicad setting when im feeling dangerous and a little cheap

[@YupHio]

Nice

[@gmivisualsjason3729]

Looking forward to part two of the outlaw

[@justinslaight]

Hey nice video, ive curious about this, so what kv motors do you use on you 5" quads for the 4s li ion?

[@RCModelReviews]

Just using regular 2300KV motors.

[@justinslaight]

@@RCModelReviews Thank you!

[@mikespeedyfpv321]

Great video I learnt a lot nice one for the information. 💯❤️🙏👊👊 I just got into FPV I have flown my first six packs on the last pack i crash but all good it just needed a new prop a new battery strap and the battery but the battery 🔋 lipo 6s still works but when I got home I checked the 🔋 and one of the cells is dead, Is it worth me trying to make a for 4 cell pack because the lipo pack is new I've only charged and discharged the battery 6 times or should I just dispose of it correctly and leave it alone. 🙏👊

[@RCModelReviews]

I've converted quite a few 4S packs to 3S by removing a dead cell and you could do the same with your 6S pack by removing the dead cell. However, be very careful because accidentally shorting one of the good cells could ruin your day.

[@mikespeedyfpv321]

@@RCModelReviews ok thanks for the reply much appreciated I'll give it a go just wonder if you have a wire diagram just as reference if not that's ever so much i love your channel take care hope you have a great day 💯❤️🙏👊👊

[@needmoreboost6369]

Off this topic slightly but a few years ago I had a cheap 4 port 6a turnigy charger and towards the end of it’s life it started charging lipo’s to 4.4.3-4.4v and at first I took advantage, as I was mostly doing speed run’s! but unfortunately the cheaper batteries like red backs and zippys didn’t last long! but a futaba align battery and some Traxxas batteries are still tight after many years.

[@tehyosh]

what charger are you using in this video?

[@YTFPV]

what would you recommend for those battery for setting SONY VTC6 18650 high quality cells from flywoo exlorer and also for storage what would you recommend ? Thanks

[@AbdulAleemShekhani]

Love you Bruce! :D

[@jacquemeier2005]

Cool

[@ronniepirtlejr2606]

I've been vaping for over 5 years now. I use only the 18650 batteries. I found out that if you want your battery/s to have a long life? Charge them at 4.2 Volt 500 milliamp. Constant current, constant voltage. Let them cool off first before charging. Can you charge them faster? Sure you can, At the cost of the batteries lifespan! If you don't like waiting for the slower charge of 4 hrs. BUY MORE BATTERIES! You can learn a lot at the Battery University website!👍🇺🇸

[@RCPhysics]

Excellent video. Great explanation as always. I've just recently started playing around with 18650 cells and they have a lot of potential. Have you played around with using a BMS board in your home-made packs?

[@padroooo]

From what I have read a BMS on an airplane or a quad would not be a good thing because when it gets to the cutoff voltage the motors would just quit and you know the results.

[@Ryet9]

My "Vape specific" type chargers have always charged to 4.2, just checking my "Gyrfalcon All-88" now.. clearly says "LI-ION" and batteries currently in are sitting at 4.2, never seen this 4.1 in the 6yrs of me using 18650s & 21700s (not for RC), but then it's a dedicated charger for just single cells of various sizes not an "RC specific" styled multi-cell charger.. interesting to note, if I ever make a pack I'll b sure to put it on Li-Po if my charger only goes to 4.1

[@Vousie]

Yup. And yet, my lipo charger's liion setting by default cuts off at 4.1v. But that's only the default. Like on RCModelReviews' charger, mine also has the option to change the cut off voltage. So I could set it to li-ion and set the cut off to 4.2v. And the real question of this video, that he didn't answer is: Is that any different to the standard lipo setting?

[@Ryet9]

@@Vousie I don't think so, it's not like it puts in "LION" power that is incompatable with LIPO power 🙃️

[@listerdave1240]

@7:55 It's not that lithium-ion lasts longer than lithium-polymer but the form they are packaged. What you are comparing is pouch cells vs cylinder cells. Even with the exact same chemistry cylindrical cells will generally last much longer. The reason is that most pouch-type cells suffer from delamination long before degrading chemically as there is nothing substantial to keep the layers in good contact with each other. Any gas that is generated collects in pockets between the layers pushing them apart thus reducing the active surface, reducing capacity and increasing internal resistance. With cylindrical cells this cannot happen except in extreme overheating situations. The metal cylindrical shell is strong enough to prevent the layers from being pushed apart causing the excess gas to find its way out of the cell rather than pushing the layers apart. The disadvantage of cylindrical cells is of course that they are considerably heavier for a given capacity and will usually have a lower C rating due both to their much smaller outer surface area as well as higher internal resistance due to having one long continuous set of plates rather than many layers paralleled. (The latter issue has been solved recently by Tesla but AFAIK no one else is using that solution)

[@justinw523]

@ RCModelReviews I have a Li ion 500mAh 7.4 battery and I have the ISDT 608AC charger, what settings should I use to charge my buttery at? On my screen it has… Task- Charging, Chemistry- Lilon, Condition- 4.10V, Cells- 2S, Current-0.5A

[@mercurymoyes4018]

How long is too long to leave a pack fully charged? I'm trying to fly every day so no storage charge used, although having a hover in my small lounge with a 5" is great for dusting its just not as fun as ripping round the back yard:)

[@asenbien]

Hi, I cant find the buid video of that Li-Ion battery. Some link or date when it was published? thank youu!!