Is it Wrong to Kill Harold? - Fallout 3 Lore

A quick chat while we explore the Montgomery County Reservoir and Mason Dixon Salvage.
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[@Chronomaton]

Frankly I think a lot of Harold's issues would be solved if someone just got him a radio to listen to.

[@ToXic_WeaponZ]

Get this man a FUCKING medal (im not begin sarcastic)

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

Chronomaton -a fiew hours later Herbert:“Please, i beg of you, not three dog again...“

[@subzerobadass]

@@PancakemonsterFO4 a) Who the hell is Herbert? b) If the rest of the Wasteland can put up with Three Dog, then HAROLD can deal, too.

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

subzerobadass that’s what I said, Harrison

[@jackhazardous4008]

Bingo bango bongo i don't wanna leave the kongo oh no no no no nooooo~ That might eventually be a worse fate

[@nautilusshell2089]

Heres one: treat him like a human being? Side with Mother on one condition: they stop teeating Harold like an all powerful God, treat him like a human. Bring in a radio, people, books, magazines, anything to make him happy without killing him, even going as far as to get him friends.

[@UltimateGamerCC]

well they dont understand that they are speaking to a person, they see him as a miracle or a god.

[@nautilusshell2089]

@@UltimateGamerCC then he can just ask for those things

[@UltimateGamerCC]

@@nautilusshell2089 but he doesnt, what he does ask them for however just becomes a stupid riddle to them, and they are especially wary about bringing people, as well as technology, in any case this does nothing for the constant pain, difficulty breathing and unending insomnia that he is suffering day by day.

[@JossLun]

Yew will grow, listen to him and take care of his needs. I trust her, because they're friends. And she's the fruit of treeminders' society, so they'll trust her.

[@demonpride1975]

so you are going to bring a tree a book that can't turn the pages. i think that would be an insult. secondly unless they get new music, trust me i would want to kill myself eventually. new people, how long has Harold and bob been there, how long has it taken them to seed the trees around them. would these new people keep Harold and bob a secret until enough trees could be grown.

[@otarthemad1782]

There was one line of dialogue where Harold admits to have seen the Lone Wanderer coming by viewing him "through the leaves of other trees." That is an amazing ability... made hilarious by the fact that Harold peeking through other trees leaves makes Bob jealous! If Bob spreads throughout the world then Harold could probably achieve something akin to omnipresence.

[@ashketchup9040]

And then when a forest fire breaks out, omnisuffering lmao

[@lolalona7130]

@@ashketchup9040 don’t forget to mention the many trees we’re gonna cut down as well. Yes he’ll be able to see the world again, but he’ll also witness the horrors we are capable of, which I’m pretty sure he is well aware of, considering how long he’s lived.

[@JoceBeggar]

​@@ashketchup9040 Do you feel horrible pain when someone pinches a little bit of your skin? One tree is like one cell dying.

[@ashketchup9040]

@@JoceBeggar Yeah, so imagine all your cells burning. You can't, thus, omnisuffering lmao

[@JoceBeggar]

@@ashketchup9040 How the fuck would you burn all the trees in the world at the same time? If another Great War happened, but them everyone would burn

[@TooCooFoYou]

Harold’s quest really does play well with the main theme of Fallout 3: self-sacrifice.

[@seigeengine]

Honestly, basically every sacrifice in the game was avoidable and dumb, so no, fuck the theme.

[@AyyyC]

@@seigeengine Nah the theme was well implemented along with all of the other morally grey choices in the game.

[@ctgslayer]

@@AyyyC not the ending

[@istaze_137]

Whatchu mean? I sent Fawkes into the purification chamber

[@dreamingflurry2729]

It is only self-sacrifice because they don't let you use the supermutant companion (who can take the radiation!), which never made sense...seriously, that they wanted needless sacrifice is one of the things people (like me) hated, which also got us Broken Steel :)

[@quinnmoore5985]

I was 100% expecting to find a sapling of Harold to be in the fallout 4

[@patriciairwin9491]

Get to work on that mod please.

[@greatkhan393]

Harold:[notices] Ohhhhh Noooooo.

[@zigzagrebelsftw1528]

Like groot from gardians of the galaxy

[@imakazero]

Well remember fallout 4 is in the commonwealth, 3 is in capital wasteland

[@JKSSubstandard]

@@imakazero His seeds are spread to the wind. They could blow north. They could be spread stuck in the fur or hides of the wasteland creatures. If traders get a sapling, it could be traded north for resources.

[@pieman2435]

honestly, if FO3 was real, I would give Harold entertainment, a radio, a book, anything, treating him as a person, then also go with Mothers option.

[@remr4598]

Your good person

[@catalyst9955]

I’d give him a library and make him a king give

[@bluemoon1693]

I would set up camp next to Harold,and keep him company

[@6400S]

DeelIo, same I would literally be his therapist and best friend I feel so bad for him I am literally about to cry that’s how bad I feel for him, why am I so weird ;-;

[@potatod6085]

Still, he would see all of his loved ones *_die_* that would be a fate worse than death

[@andrasbonitz3491]

The best choice would have been one that was not available: introduce near brain-death to Harold, so he can no longer suffer but his body still works (and thus produce the trees).

[@chainsawpanda2]

WOuld have been a perfect pair of Checks, Science 75 - 100 to explain the theory, Medicine 75 - 100 to perform the procedure.

[@Slowpoke3x]

Stole that from doctor who

[@cheese_walker]

LOBOTOMY TIME BABY

[@4jgarner]

We need to know if the trees sprouted from Harold can produce their own seeds. Or are they sterile? That would change everything.

[@wallybonejengles5595]

That starts with Harold and ends with the masses in brainwashing helmets.

[@dastemplar9681]

Harold would always remain to be my most favorite character in all of Fallout. I always found his humor from Fallout and Fallout 2 so charming. When I saw his name and recognized his voice, my heart burst for joy only to sink on how sad his life has become. But I can never bring myself to put him out his misery.

[@WafflesInTheRain]

He really is an incredibly charming character. Whether he can genuinely share thoughts with Bob, or it’s just the delusions of a centuries old man, the mutual respect that he and Bob share is incredibly touching. He truly sees Bob as his equal and harbours no ill will against him for their situation. Such a well written character.

[@stryker5949]

When I first play FO3 back in 2008 I used to light Harold's ass up. But knowing what I know now I can't bring myself to do it 😭

[@J05TI]

Recognized his voice? His voice and voice actor is completely different in Fallout 3.

[@chrischin_94]

@@J05TI Could be a similar tone and or inflection

[@merentori]

Love him, he's such a goofball and Harold is a great name

[@grenademan2003]

This whole ethical dilemma could be solved if Bethesda decided to add like 5 more options in dialogue.

[@nicrobe9443]

"[Perception 5] Dude, should I bring you a radio or something?"

[@briansantos5806]

@@nicrobe9443 "[Charisma 7] yo, save the Wasteland dude"

[@TrayTerra]

“[Low Intelligence] I have this courier friend, he may have more options for you.”

[@aqz7603]

@Anthony Johnson And? That doesn't change the fact that keeping harold alive benefits the entire wasteland.

[@aqz7603]

@Anthony Johnson Because he can supply food for everyone else just by existing.

[@-gemberkoekje-5547]

Dillema, do you want: -The best for Harold -The best for the community -The best for the capital wasteland

[@leonelvaa3169]

Best for the world

[@cain8088]

Best for me and Harold. I want that barkskin perk

[@mynameberamen1779]

People in the Capital Wasteland kinda suck.

[@tentedkarma7465]

@@mynameberamen1779 not all think about little lamplight and big town

[@R41ph3a7b6]

Best for harold

[@reeceshugrue6167]

I think you forgot that Harold is gaining a sort of 'omniscience' over the passage of time. He was able to see the player coming before they arrived, blaming it on 'boredom.' It won't be long before Harold learns how to use this new ability to it's full potential, escaping the confines of his roots. This ability completely shifted my outlook on the situation. This is why I felt justified in increasing his growth. It won't be more than a few decades until he's beyond that grove and across the capital wasteland, able to see all. Yeah it's making a big decision for him, but he agrees afterward it's for the best + he won't be stuck there for much longer + it's helping life return to the world much quicker.

[@j.jbinks9669]

He agrees that it's for the best because you gaslight him into believing that he's being selfish. Same way most victims of coercion "agree" to their abusers demands.

[@radscorpion8]

@@j.jbinks9669 LOL that's one hilarious interpretation XDD. Its funny you see "gaslight" where most see "convince with compelling arguments". Bethesda makes games for children not dark stories about victim abuse lol. I don't remember the game dialogue perfectly but I'm pretty sure I don't remember gaslighting harold when I played through Fallout 3. The dialogue in the game is pretty bad. The most they will do is have a sentence like "But the community needs you and so does the capital wasteland!" and then he'd be like "yeah you're right". So...honestly its more likely that the vault dweller just changed his mind. That's what Bethesda would write. They write simple dialogue like that (which thankfully has improved in their recent games)

[@dwightcronenweth7901]

JAJAJAJAJAJJAJA. Lmaoo I really laughed at the gaslight part because it's pretty much what would happen irl and kills the illusion of heroism and beauty behind him agreeing or the wanderer's debate skills/wisdom

[@mankdemelord6974]

@@radscorpion8I agree except the “Bethesda makes games for children” part. There’s a lot of horrific material in Fallout definitely not suited for kids.

[@PeanutbutterTuna]

Alot of people just throw the word gaslight around

[@IndirectCogs]

I always honored Harold's wish. I didn't even realize you could justify otherwise to him after the fact. To me, keeping a person alive in a state they consider torture because it'd be helpful to the wasteland is... terrible. I always honored Harold's wish. Edit: Of course I destroy his heart, what monster would burn Harold? Watching Harold burn was VISCERALLY UPSETTING...

[@syntheticteapot]

Lol so you did watch him burn at least once is what you're saying?

[@IndirectCogs]

@@syntheticteapot I've seen video of him burning. In this video. :P

[@Harry-yx2on]

@@syntheticteapotharold go screaming 😅

[@syntheticteapot]

@@IndirectCogs lmfao awful.

[@bobpengcomedy]

There is a win win situation here, Harold's depressed, because he can't move and is bored right? Get him some tv and some video tapes, get treeminders to read him stories, but a radio beside him or something

[@mr.anonymoose1190]

Yos

[@mr.anonymoose1190]

You deserve a medal

[@JeritHD]

His eyesight might be really bad though

[@lich.possum]

@@JeritHD he never looks at the wanderer so i imagine he can't see at all

[@ahealthydoseofbleach7031]

All he needs is some weed killer and in a couple years he will be freeeeeeeeeeee

[@lordsaveme643]

“Can you imagine THAT? Stuck here for *cen-trees* “

[@rinkisdinkis214]

I hate you for this pun

[@itzbeendakavgaming5632]

>:(

[@jaytheredpanda183]

LMMFAO

[@user-uf6te7be4n]

*_*

[@nautikient2151]

@@jaytheredpanda183 wasn't that funny

[@dr.vegapunk5853]

harold after a few years more he will call himself Deku Tree

[@blueotter5954]

Congratulations, you linked Zelda and Fallout

[@anthonyvannella9953]

@@blueotter5954 if Nintendo's reading this, they need to sneak the Capitol Building into the Hyrule map for their next game

[@wyvernnemecek595]

Here’s my solution: leave his heart exposed, get the Treeminders to hang out with him and help his quality of life** while we (the Lone Wanderer) find Super Mutants to squeeze for all their FEV-contaminated blood. Using that and some Chemistry, we distill the FEV before grabbing a new human being. Over the course of a year (to collect one of Bob’s seeds) we’ll find out if the other trees grow seeds and we talk with Harold to help him cope with his situation. A year passes, a seed is collected, we recreate Harold’s situation with more than a couple human beings who’ll join caravaners and straying Treeminders in reaching other settlements in and outta the Capital Wasteland.With all of this done, Harold can be asked if he’s okay with his life as it is or if he still desires death. If he wants death, we put him down after he spends time with Yew and we ensure that the Treeminders understand that he’s just joining “his children” by taking root somewhere else...and then we kill him quickly. If he’s okay with being alive, we increase his mutation, spurring on the Capital Wasteland’s growth of foliage. The branching out (HA) Treeminders will be doing this as well, essentially creating a cycle to gradually bring greenery back to all of Post-Apocalyptic North America. All of the Harold replicas will be getting far better treatment and will be brought to grow strong, fast and vast. Far from perfect, this is the best plan that encompasses all of the outcomes on hand. We maintain isolation of Harold while improving his situation, giving enough time to answer important questions while the Treeminders get somewhat educated on their “god”’s circumstances, help everyone get closure, expand the greenery’s growth in the wasteland, and bring an old friend some peace in a hellish existence. I know that improving Harold’s situation takes zero effort. Bring him a radio, books, magazines, pip boy games, and just hang out with the poor man. Feed him if that’s at all a possibility so he feels like he’s not in a living hell! This has been agreed on by the community. It’s the rest of it that’ll take some work to complete. Far from perfect, it’ll give everyone a chance to improve everything around them. If Harold still craves death, he’ll have died with one good year outta centuries of hell and there’ll be a newer, less tortured generation to do what he unintentionally did. The wasteland would grow, the Treeminders would become better and Harold would find peace one way or another!

[@Tea_N_Crumpets]

Idea: Take out Harolds Brain, put it in a robobrain, boom, both Bob and harold survive!

[@ozaauliaramadhan1485]

Or maybe make him as a synth

[@Rob-326]

It won't work. The brain in the Robobrain is used as a central processor.That's all, the memories are wiped clean. Oxhorn even made a video covering Robobrains and the disturbing truth behind them. And making him a synth would mean creating an impostor that looks or acts like him.

[@waluigiisbae2889]

But don't they wanna die?

[@snakycarnival9119]

are you trying to make the terminator with natural resources

[@user-uo6fu2ff2f]

200IQ playz

[@adeptkhristossilvae2601]

"Stuck here for centuries" Centrees Trees Me: ha

[@emmaarrow87]

Stuck there for centrees? That (Christopher) wood s-uck. ;D

[@russian_knight]

Christopher woods Woods Harold and bob made a woods Me: xd

[@VK-jy3pi]

I'm in a good WOOD!

[@thaxasaurian]

Christopher Woods No dude no🥺😢

[@Penguinman2.0]

Christopher Woods sksksksksksk (That was a joke btw I’m not a 14 year old girl)

[@eddie_bear666]

I wish there was a way to engineer Harold's seeds to be able to create seed bearing plants so Harold could be at peace whilst still being able to help the wasteland flourish

[@ZtotheMills]

Harold's pain PARTIALLY stems from what I feel is a strong desire to be with people. he loves to tell stories, he appreciates Yew because shes willing to listen. What bothered me.... GREATLY... about Oasis, is that I saw Harold being tormented because the faith built around him made it impossible for anyone to actually HEAR him. They built a wall around him.... the gate doesn't even face him... its built BEHIND him... They completely shut him out... He's been forced to be alone. a man who spent his life wandering and from what I gathered, loving every second of it. has now been sealed in a room, where he can't even see the door. I wanted to spread Harold's influence....I wanted to allow the world to grow.... but I took his life in my first playthrough because those people weren't deserving of him. They were nice, yes.... but that kindness came from ignorance. All of their thankfulness was for nothing, because they couldn't even say it to his face. The game limits the player's options.... but if it were possible, I'd want to solve the problem by showing those people what they've done. Their faith makes them good people on the surface, but they need to see the cruelty and the weight they've put on a single man. They don't seem like they're totally lost, and maybe.... just maybe.... if they're willing to be WITH Harold instead of below him.... Harold could find happiness as well. In the meantime, I'd ask him if he'd be willing to spread.... to discuss it with him... I'd want to come back and give him new stories while watching him grow. All while letting him know that, if hes become too tired.... or maybe the side effects of the growth are too much.... that I'm ready to do as he asked to begin with.

[@ryanhernandez5632]

I always killed him. Its sad but I always hated how he was being exploited against his will, to the point they no longer saw him as human. And whether it was right or wrong for the waste lands I honored his wishes of release

[@mikeehrmantraut1899]

Ryan Hernandez to be free I honor his wish to be free I don’t want him to be a tree his wish will be free

[@ryanhernandez5632]

@@mikeehrmantraut1899 I agree plus I can't imagine what would happen if raiders or groups like the institute would were to take over the area. It be horrible what they'd do to him

[@mikeehrmantraut1899]

@@ryanhernandez5632 OH god that would be horrible if the institute was taking over the area they would probably study and making another bio weapon that would be scary and putting Harold out of his misery was the right thing I don't want him to stay like a tree

[@valeriouscatastros8717]

He is not a human anymore. He is a super mutant because he got mutated at Mariposa with FEV when he was with Richard Grey/Master. He ceased to be human when he became a mutant. He is a tree.

[@cherrychris5068]

@@valeriouscatastros8717 but the tree has the feelings and thoughts to those of a human. He is still a person but inside a tree.

[@ray_the_red8047]

I use the liniment on my major playthroughs. Harold is still changing and mutating, no-one knows what he will become. His major reasons to die are mainly because he is stuck in one place, I don't think he mentions being in continous pain or anything, it is the fact he has only one view, few ways to entertain himself and has to put up with the treeminders. One thing he does mention is that he knew you were comming. It's possible he will continue to change and be able to use his senses across the entire network of trees and plants that Bob's seeds create. If that is a possibility, then keeping him alive at this point I think is the correct thing to do. He seeks to die because he believes himself immobile, but if the reach of his senses go to the edge of the grove that can be treated. So far his seeds have been left cast randomly via winds but he could request that the treeminders take them further afield to start groves near to other settlements. It is of course a guess, but Harold may not be as trapped as his thinks he is.

[@axlmagnus]

I like keeping him around spreading his influence. He's stuck in the moment. He needs to think about what he can do now use that to move toward as well as think on how he might mutate further as the OP stated. Or I could burn the mutant and let the world heal naturally. I prefer option 2.

[@armoroftruth3166]

He may as well reach to godhood!literaly!

[@ScarletImp]

That’s a good point. It’s likely as the green grows, he’s able to “see” more of the Capital Wasteland than he ever could. After all, he “saw” us coming even though he physically couldn’t move and is only able to look in one direction.

[@thedrunkendragon7151]

and even if he will be a slave, it's one life for thousands and maybe millions if spread far enough outside the area. Some person out there today is suffering already to help us and the future us stay safe

[@DrakenAshen]

I also see a future of Yew becoming the leader of the Treeminders and tending to Herald and Bob, she actually listened to him, and he admitted she made him happy. Piece of cake choice. Always grow. Growth before death.

[@naranara1690]

I just wanna hug him. He's been through so much.

[@Reliford]

He's literally saying "Don't touch me I want to be left alone".

[@thevrknight8935]

"You killed my bestest friend!All I want to do is cry!”Proceeds to have a deadpan face

[@Helpertin]

Still haunts me that i let him live. That was the only place with green growth i had found in the whole wasteland, for all i knee it was the only growth in the whole world. I couldnt throw it away. Hardest choice in the entire game for me.

[@aquariusdreamer]

Helpertin right? It was either kill Harold and make him happy but the wasteland will remain a wasteland. Or don’t fulfill his request and the landscape transforms for the better. I chose the greater good as well.

[@spxdes4223]

@Homelander What was your choice in, The PITT?

[@clickpause8732]

@Homelander How is it any more selfish than killing a man because of your own morals and leaving the entire cult to starve?

[@quidlad8536]

@Homelander you cant make an omelet without breaking some eggs

[@papajohn5279]

@Homelander A month late, but are you being serious? It's a friggin' video game, don't call people "sElFiSh" because of an option they picked in a VIDEO GAME, you're probably the guy who calls people jerks for doing a "bad guy" playthrough. It's a game, guy.

[@HolisticNumbat]

If there was a way to have Harold braindead? Harold wouldn't suffer anymore, his body would still be alive, Bob would still be alive. Bob seems to be a name for the mutation, he doesn't have a manifestation in Harold's brain, like a voice or a double personality. Harold probably wouldn't mind, the green would still spread, only Sapling Yew would be sad...

[@ravenshirwood5201]

That’s a fair option. Not sure how it would be accomplished, but it’s certainly something that would satisfy both the needs of the people and the needs of Harold.

[@TawnyRain2332]

Its probably kinda crappy to suggest this but I feel like eventually he would go insane/brain dead just based off his mental state. That way the green would spread but he wouldn't be mentally burdened, at least anymore. He didnt seem to be in a very stable mind as he referred to his mutation as Bob instead of just what it was so maybe he was getting there and just needed to suffer longer in order to do so? Just my opinion

[@gusty7153]

there was already suppose to be a way convince harold into being happy about his condition. he wasnt in any real pain, just immobilized

[@BlandTomtarOchTroll]

@@TawnyRain2332 I disagree, he has been around since the bombs dropped and imo he seems less insane in this game than in fallout 2. It is too bad we couldn't get to know more about his ability to "see" through the trees, to me it seemed like he was slowly fusing with the tree kinda like the master in fallout one. Tbh they have a lot in common, being dumped in the same vat, being worshipped as gods, being immobile and having slight psychic powers

[@tachankaisgod6689]

TawnyRain2332 I had a fried with a large tumor on his neck he called Bobby. Naming something helps humans be less afraid of it

[@bibby659]

The thing is, while Harold may find it agonizing to stay there in this way, and that in the moment it may be best to kill him, if he were let grow more and to spread more quickly, overtime he may have people arrive that can help him in his predicament or at the least overtime, someone will help him with his boredom.

[@BitesTheDust119]

The people that claim they want what’s best for him wanted to enslave him. What makes you think people arriving later won’t do the same? Making him a slave and saying “maybe someone else would come around” is pretty evil.

[@dukedevlan5457]

​@@BitesTheDust119 he needs to talk to Joshua Graham

[@purpleninja4685]

I have lived through a point in my life were I was suicidal. I was abused my dad and forced to most of the work around the house, from a very young age. So at age 12, I took a razer to my wrist and cut it, in front of both my parents. It wasn't deep enough to draw much blood and I was willing to continue, but I was stopped by my dad. My mom, later that day, talked with me about what happened. I started to understand that even though my life was bitter and mean, I had people that needed me and my help. From the younger kids I read out loud to, to my mother who suffers from depression who loves my smile. I realized life isn't just about living for yourself, its also important to live for others. If you see it like that, it makes sense to help the Capital Wasteland, because Harold at the point when he asks you to kill him can't see it. He is blinded by his own self to see into the future. So my choice is to save him. I say save because he needs someone to show him how to keep living, which is something both the Lone wonderer and Yew show him.

[@j.jbinks9669]

Gg being gaslit by your own mother I guess

[@Nikkstein]

i asked a philosopher and ethnics professor about this. He was legit interested. He said that like most things it depends. Most people can agree that making one person suffer for the benefit of many others is better than everyone suffering.

[@Catonzo]

The thing is you can convince Harold this as well. It lessens his suffering to the point of probably being able to ignore it and even enjoy life. Much like he enjoys having Yew around.

[@wtxcrazydonut]

You seriously think it's alright to torture one person so that others can live a bit more comfortably?

[@wtxcrazydonut]

@Milkycharizard the capital wasteland will be fine thanks to project purity

[@Nikkstein]

@@wtxcrazydonut never said its alright. Neither are good options but itd better for 1 person than 100000 people to suffer isnt it?

[@fangk.7367]

Real Utilitarian Hours who up?

[@zrytun6019]

I modded fallout 4 to be green as a result of harold growing and spreading across the wasteland due to the liniment

[@raynightshade8317]

@@dungeonmaster81_10 Then how is Dogmeat Alive. Is it just Bethesda messing up?

[@zrytun6019]

@@dungeonmaster81_10 damnit my mod isnt lore friendly now...

[@zrytun6019]

@@raynightshade8317 the new dogmeat is a synth maybe?

[@dungeonmaster81_10]

Naw dude dogmeat is like shaggy an ultimate being of power that never dies how do you describe it being unratiated when most other dogs are

[@raynightshade8317]

@@zrytun6019 looking at the wiki other than the first two games he could have survived though 3, Vegas and 4 with a normal gods livespand

[@Vexin980]

I've seen the main arguement about letting Harold live despite him actually coming to terms with it as, "But what if he changes his mind in hundreds of years?" Okay, if he does? Why would he not be able to convince someone to kill him then? Alternatively, the dude may just be depressed and actually want someone to talk him out of it, because that's what the mission seemed like to me.

[@marcoc7388]

For me, deciding to kill Harold is the same that handing a gun to a depressed person who wants to kill themselves, and I'm not even sure that he actually wants to die. 🤷‍♂ He's tired as fuck of the Tree people, but if you have gone through extreme pain or anxiety, you know that at that specific moment all you want to do is die, eventhough you don't actually want it. Bojack Horseman did a great analysis of this in "The View from the Halfway Down", it's really common for suicidal attempts survivors to actually regret their decision at the last moment... So my idea would be, give the man some respect, treat him as a human and if after that, he wants to die, then grant that wish.

[@thegermanpotato5405]

@@marcoc7388to be fair, he has been sitting in the same spot for 20 years and is constantly being used as a slave to help the people, if you were told you had to sit somewhere for hundreds of years, not being able to sleep, or eat, or do anything a normal person would do, would you want to live? For what. But ya I get what your saying, or typing I guess.

[@UCanCallMeJesus1]

I usually go with tree mother laurel. Since it's the one that's best for the most people. Harold isn't upset and we can tell him how much he matters to everyone. It's the best option even if its not the most moral. I love these morally ambiguous quests!

[@TheGameDomeGuy]

This is a bit of spoilers but the ending of fallout 2 does says bob creates fruit and bobs seeds can survive in even the most iradiated and dry places in the wasteland

[@inzyniertv9305]

bob will save the wasteland. Make Harold live and grow more

[@sheogoraththedaedricprince9675]

No one should eat his fruit or his nuts. Pun intended.

[@sheogoraththedaedricprince9675]

@@axlmagnus It's an abomination and must be destroyed!

[@redpolscorp]

After that he'll truly be a plant.

[@thesaucylorax]

If you kill Harold without burning him Bob/Herbert are still green and thus alive so I can assume he is still producing seeds so He still grows just at the same speed as before meaning it would still happen slowly

[@rage_2000]

*Institute:* Growth! For the greater good! *F4 Brotherhood of Steel:* Kill it! It’s an abomination! *Railroad:* We must keep it as a secret from the other factions! *Minutemen:* -there’s a settlement that- ...Actually you are the leader, you decide

[@therealdoy99]

I would have been interesting for Fallout 4 to have like a creation club, or possibly DLC where you travel to the Capital Wasteland because the Brotherhood wants to eliminate Harold for being a mutant, an easy target, but maybe Harold objects this time because he sees the beauty of living and helping others. (assuming the Leaf Mother Laurel is the canon ending)

[@spookyscaryskeletonsmith2840]

kill the tree, and use it to help out our settlement. ill mark it on your map.

[@demonpride1975]

no if you are the minutemen you would have no time to work through this dilemma. because another settlement needs your help.

[@rage_2000]

@demonpride1975 yeah, the position of the Minuteman would’ve indifference

[@albatross756]

Rodri G But couldn’t one argue that Oasis is in itself, a settlement? Make Bob make more seeds to expand Oasis and the Capital Wasteland, nay, the whole world shall become one big settlement!!!

[@aytothakay]

5% Damage Resistance?! Hold my treesap

[@xaedeo6549]

Lmaoo 😂

[@Napoleon_based]

“He’s just standing there..MENACINGLY”

[@QuinnEthanR]

I understand where you're coming from when you say that siding with one of the treeminders is worse than burning Harold. However, I feel like that's a gray area. Going out of your way to exploit a man's fear to kill him is absolutely horrendous

[@Casandraelf]

why not just destroy his heart if you're going to kill him? it's kinder

[@optimisedoptimist9922]

@@Casandraelf Speedrunners usually kill him with fire since it's the quickest way to finish the quest. Some people also deliberately choose the more evil option when they are making an evil aligned character, it is an RPG afterall.

[@Casandraelf]

@@optimisedoptimist9922 oh, I know that. Speedruns are all about beating the game as quickly as possible. I meant for more general playthroughs

[@The_Sock_]

what if there was a way to pull him apart and make him into an ent of some manner, seperate out his hands, implant his heart in his body, maybe trim out his branches and give him some metal boots so his feet cant take root again and let him mill about the wastes. Hell, the Brotherhood of Chicago might take him, they have sentient deathclaws for fucks sake.

[@gusty7153]

there's actually suppose to be an option where your suppose to convince harold to live since his strain of fev is what's allowing all the plants to grow back

[@andrest8552]

I killed the treeguy because: 1] they were using him as an idol to worship. 2] he was in torment.

[@andrest8552]

@Logan Waltz 😂

[@icankickflipok]

But not because he asked?

[@jescruz5465]

aRE YOU MOHAMEDAN?

[@AverseKO]

Jes Cruz what?

[@jescruz5465]

AverseEX AverseEX Mohamedan, destroy idol, behead infidel, church to mosque, oppress women

[@rollinnollin546]

My reason for killing Harold? People survived the Great War, they’ve survived the aftermath so far. Throughout time people have struggled to meet their material needs, and yet that did not mean their lives were miserable and meaningless. I think Humanity will be fine without or Harold (or just doomed to repeat history with or without him)

[@milesjohnson150]

Is it strange that I come back to visit Harold after going out on adventures? I feel I owe it to him after using him like that. If only they'd remaster fallout 3 and maybe add a bit more too

[@samedwards3285]

13:56 imagine scavenging the forest and hearing this

[@execute6200]

hella creepy

[@Assassino275]

@@doubleaa7368 WHat does that even mean

[@muzictv3933]

The day the bars closed that was my reaction

[@aeroanosupremo]

The big foot be having his time with his girl

[@DatMentalGamer]

Nightmare fuel

[@Jebbtube]

I sympathize with Harold's suffering, but given the state of the world, I feel that encouraging his growth his ultimately the best option. If the game allowed it, I would allow it, I'd spread the forest, but force the Treefolk to acknowledge him as a person, to work with researchers of the Wasteland to bring life back to the land, and to promise Harold a release from his suffering at some point in the future when things are stabilized, even if that means waiting decades to centuries. Sadly, these games simply aren't that nuanced.

[@wtxcrazydonut]

What kind of a world are you building if its foundations are built on this?

[@trilooogy6586]

@@wtxcrazydonut i mean from what i'm seeing he has a pretty good idea, making harold the foundation of the new world is a good even though he already is a foundation for the treefolk and he hates/enjoys it. Because he likes his time with Yew, hes still human so i'd say give him things that he can listen to or watch or do something and maybe some people would connect with him like yew did and he can both save the wasteland and have a happy life. And i get the point that if he has to wait centuries for himself to die that everyone in this generation would be dead and new people could use him for bad or even torture him for fun, but my solution for that is have like a family tradition of going to see harold and hang out with him and be kind folk, and for people to protect him. Also i get that people like the lone wanderer wont be around to govern what happens so you just train select few to be like him, boom and then harold is happy/safe and the wasteland is restored. And when everything is green is harold wants to be put down so be it he at least deserves his request after basically saving the wasteland.

[@ryanmackenzie6109]

@Anthony Johnson well.. I mean.. He would quite literally be saving the life of everyone in the wasteland. Certainly, forcing him into this kind of thing is wrong in a society like ours where things alright, but when the future of humanity depends on it? When one singular person can restore the area of hundreds if not thousands of people AND the future generations..? It is for the greater good.

[@Riccool]

Programmer here. it's not about nuance. it's about code. doing something like this would take a lot of time, effort and space for something only a small percentage of people would see. whilst i would love to see more of that kind of stuff in the future. back then it was simply not achieveable

[@aydenmichels3543]

@@Riccool I would have to agree with you, as much as i would live to see that option it just wasnt possible or plausible to do back then, such a few amount of people would see that effect and probably even fewer people would think about doing this option. Now if they made this a mandatory mission in the game that would be a different story but because it isnt I wouldn't waste the time, effort and space in the code to do this.

[@Platinumstyx]

I think letting him spread is the best option. He says he san see you coming to him in the grove and can see through the trees. He says problem is not being able to "eat or read" pretty much he has no entertainment, but he likes when Yew comes to talk to him. When his forest spreads all over the wasteland he will be able to see everything, find entertainment everywhere, become the capital wasteland and turn it into the capital grove. This may even make him new friends that will come to him that he could enjoy talking with and hear story's from. It's a win win for everyone.

[@RangerOfTheOrder]

In the context of the limited game choices, you're right. In reality, the best possible outcome would be to convince Harold to willingly allow himself to be used for the betterment of the wasteland.

[@user-vk9sx5zv9b]

Blud hasn’t heard of deontology 💀💀💀

[@nocturnechanson]

Fallout three is full of places where the speech option you want isn’t there. Such as when James asked why you left the vault, there’s no option to say they were trying to Kill me.

[@crash8542]

I wouldve gone with the mothers option, because Harold does realise that he eould be helping thousands, possibly millions of people, and creating a brighter future for the wasteland

[@gsamov]

"he eould be helping" good job

[@RivianOwl]

Yeah, i think like that too

[@souko3455]

Idk about him but if I'm him, it won't really effect me cuz standing there doing nothing for decades seeing your love one dies will emotionally destroy me even if I know that I save a lot of people... but those action is being force by someone else and I would feel like a tool. but idk since I'm a one selfish human being

[@rahulsar2030]

@@souko3455 but he wouldn't be alone for eternity. Of course he will see his love ones die of old age but he will also see new life being born as well( I mean the offsprings of the worshipers). So that will keep on healing the wound of herold. But it would be tragic if his entire family is slaughtered by raiders or enclave. Then it would be a hell to live in.

[@souko3455]

@@rahulsar2030 idk man, it's like you found something that you love but then it disappear. Then you found new person you love then it disappear again. Idk about other people but I would be insane if that happens. Living a life where you know that your love one will die over and over again and you have to experience every single lost for decades would make me crazy insane. I would feel really depressed. It's like my life now where I still feel lonely even though I have family and friends, only the closest people makes me feel truly happy and that guy have to experience losing that special people over and over again. The worst thing is that he can't do anything about it. He only can stand there doing nothing when that happens.

[@midnightmoon6439]

I've never played Fallout 3 before, but I can relate to Harold on an emotional level. Being stuck in one location all your life and being deprived of everything that makes you human isn't a life, it's just endless and ever-growing pain. If I met Harold in the horrifying and tragic state he's in, I'd let him speak everything that's on his mind and follow his requests. He's being exploited as a resource against his own will, which is a terrifying concept to think about. Despite his mutated and horrifying state, Harold deserves to die peacefully while being granted humanity and dignity instead of being treated like a slave.

[@reduced1383]

This is probably the most beautiful part of the wasteland that shows the best side of the nature and people and has the hardest decision in the entire franchise in my opinion

[@RPLAsmodeus]

Harold was my old friend from The Hub. Of course I carried out his request.

[@grandmasterhashmixtapemast910]

Get a room, you two.

[@kutagore]

@@grandmasterhashmixtapemast910 wot?

[@bradwhite5884]

Me seeing Yew after killing Harold: "I'm sorry, little one" Yew: "You did it, what did it cost?" Me: "A friend and a solution for the wasteland"

[@somebutter6755]

I wish you could convince the treeminders to give Harold food, water, and entertainment. Like at least give him a radio or have someone go out and feed him occasionally.

[@tentedkarma7465]

Thing is he's in pain all the time

[@isvvc_]

This quest raises a number of great ethical quandaries that rack my brain to this very day

[@riptofen6015]

"burning Harold to death is the evilest thing we can do" *proceeds to cook Harold*

[@Cybernaut76]

Please don't take this the wrong way but....In the world we see in Fallout games, why would you care if someone calls you....EVIL? It is just a wee little bit temporary damage to karma points, nothing more. After the bombs fell, it took a maximum of one month and most of the police officers realized they are no longer receiving paychecks (or that automated salary system continued paying them with worthless toilet paper known as dollars instead of caps) so they tossed away their uniforms and badges and went home. That means it is not like anyone will arrest you for murder if you burn Harold. It is not like you cannot kill a Radstag or Yao Guai without the next thing being someone asking for your hunting permit. Also, I have sold LOTS of homemade Jet in the Commonwealth with zero consequences. Having realized this, it is not actually so heavy to play Fallout games.

[@bitterman7258]

@@Cybernaut76 the world may be dead in the fallout universe, but people still have morale and the sense of what is right and what is wrong

[@Cybernaut76]

@@bitterman7258 Yes, but morals is much more flexible concept in the post-apocalyptic world than it was before the Great War. Also, there is no longer the same law than there was before the bombs fell. In some sense, it may be good, in some sense, bad.

[@bitterman7258]

@@Cybernaut76 while yes the wasteland is fucked and there is evil in it, people with morals and hope still exist on it and they're the ones actually trying to make a difference, and as long as those people exist in the wasteland, you cant burn alive a talking tree without being considered evil

[@Cybernaut76]

​@@bitterman7258 True enough. However, I think you can get away with a lot of psychopath stuff (such as the things you can do by installing Depravity and Diary of a Madman) if you do them wisely. It is not like CSI will come and investigate and then get you or anything.

[@ch0pper116]

What tipped it for me was Harolds ability to "see" us coming. he has a connection to the trees and plants that sprout from Bob and it's an ability he is still developing. So he still has more to achieve in his life. and by spreading the grove of tree further and further out, Harold is able to see more and more. Given time he would not only provide green resources for the wasteland, but connect to it. See all the people and experience a large civilization. And help it with the spread of information and assistance just like he used to before he found Bob. I only wish you can point that out to Harold, he might even agree to it. And if it becomes too much, his heart is still vulnerable by not being crystallized in sap.

[@bobbybologna3029]

yup he may become a full blown god at some point.

[@ch0pper116]

@@bobbybologna3029 it's not even about becoming a god. Harold was a caravan leader, supplier and trader of goods and info. he knew the only way we survive is togeather. He was always selfless till the day he was mutated and after. Given an option to see the benifet and not be talked at and worshiped like a god, but instead talked to as a human, he could do great works for the world.

[@kalengell1871]

Thank you, this is the reason I went with Laurel’s choice. Harold isn’t as alone as he thinks he is.

[@arctrooper9615]

ch0pper116 hmmmmm good points

[@athenacrow4564]

Kalen Gell that’s the problem though. He *wants* to be alone. He is tired of the Tree Minders who don’t treat him as an intelligent person with bodily autonomy and it definitely doesn’t seem like he wants to be treated like a god.

[@Ducks4lif3]

Man this is seriously a master class in the ability of videogames to create untapped experiences compared to other mediums. Its a genius quest.

[@Skarletbloom]

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities."

[@seigeengine]

I mean, I agree, but I also feel like whoever would say that is likely to then say something completely deranged that I would disagree with strongly.

[@proudlywild1491]

Ur telling me that if atlas was real holding the sky and he told u I’m in pain shoot me you would kill all life on earth for one dude

[@mettatonneo1147]

13:57 Jesus, that scream!

[@mlgsnip3r661]

XD

[@sassychumpkins4639]

Heheh

[@michealward7992]

@Dreamedorgen 3 No, he's going Ultra Instinct.

[@npcvillager8703]

Secret boss battle! Spriggan Ghost Harold appears from the burning ash.

[@savvytrout4782]

I wonder what he was like as a human

[@why4119]

I would want to die if I was a tree

[@CompactCowboy]

Why? Agreed

[@kolehansen5975]

Fuckin same

[@mariusandreassen6477]

Why? But What if you were in Harolds shoes and not just a tree

[@fumarc4501]

Why? I wouldn’t. Being a tree sounds peaceful.

[@kolehansen5975]

@@fumarc4501 yeah but you'd probably be in pain never moving just sitting absorbing rads it has to get boring after years of pain and boredom

[@420mralucard]

As I usually make characters with high intelligence and science, I always roleplay that they use the Laurel's liniment to accelerate his next seedling cycle and use them to synthesize new plants with the BoS spread them across the waste, then help Harold peacefully pass.

[@shmeeble318]

tbh it's one life for thousands maybe millions and the ending proves that it wasn't the worst idea to keep him alive

[@gr1m720]

I if given the option,would take his dna reseacrch into it or get one of many scientists in the games to help,then kill him,gaining humanity back to harold,and make a thriving wasteland

[@Lqw17]

Exactly that's what I thought

[@jamescolm1133]

I wish there was an option for he tree minders to treat him like a person instead of a god cause the only person he likes is the one person who treats him like abuman

[@solrhopalocera5704]

The only ones with the technology to achieve this are “The institute” and barely anyone in the entire wasteland know about their existence. Even the lone wanderer doesn’t know they exist. So ya, that’s not really an option.

[@gr1m720]

@@solrhopalocera5704 there was the scientist guy who wanted something from harold

[@solrhopalocera5704]

@@gr1m720 ya and i believe the institute is the only one that can actually do anything with harolds DNA. DNA needs highly specialized equipment which only the institute has. equipment made from scraps really isnt gonna get anything accomplished

[@silentpaw]

Personally, I go with Laurel and use the Liniment on his heart. After all, Harold admits his wishes were selfish in the end. Though I wish there was another option. I would want a way to destroy Harold's Brain. If we leave him braindead and his body lives on he will no longer suffer and Bob can carry on.

[@sm.saadarefin2879]

A bit off topic but what rifle weapon is this on the video? And how or where can I get this rifle on the game?

[@AuroraLalune]

Agreed

[@sayethvexus8332]

In other words, you want to turn the tree into a vegetable.

[@TDenterpriser]

So you would give Harold a lobotomy?

[@IDontKnow-lo2tu]

@Scorpio 1971 it's a lever action rifle from the Point Lookout DLC

[@deshtie4058]

the wise mystical tree

[@pete7615]

That one NPC sounds exactly like the Vault-Tec representative in the beginning of Fallout 4.

[@jakejohnson718]

Who knows, maybe Harold's mutation will go so far he literally becomes an ent

[@UltimateGamerCC]

in a sense he was in fallout 2, now he is rooted in the ground and looks to be stuck there the rest of his days.

[@heilmadon]

Becomes the mighty hiss tree

[@michaelenz7039]

Maybe in fallout 5(not 76) hewill be an ent

[@noahrivera2904]

Ent??

[@VictorLima-mv4ni]

Yeah wtf is an ent

[@toadallyawful]

In my opinion, Laurel and her liniment is the best option for Harold and Bob because Harold complains about not being able to go anywhere and with the liniment spreading the seeds out further Harold could see through them. (If Harold is right about his claim of being able to see through them)

[@andersenar2166]

I don't see how seeing trough them helps, yeah it could be entertaning but its the wasteland and all you find is missery all around.

[@melanienebula2550]

What if he’s a Sadist?

[@restlesswretch3555]

Any stimulation is good stimulation at that point.

[@reaperofzombies9698]

He could also watch humanity regrow. Be a source of wisdom He could listen to radio. Have books read to him. He is suffering from mental illness. And is suicidal. Ethunisation has already been found to be unethical. But lets all talk about how the suicidal person wanting to die means killing him instead of treating him is the only right option.

[@jamescawl6904]

@@reaperofzombies9698 a paralyzed lonely man wishes to die? Why not grant him peace?

[@bossbaby7603]

Good God when I I saw Harold burning to death it broke my heart :'(

[@waluigi9263]

Same

[@seigeengine]

"Harold can no longer speak to you." Literally the single best line in the entire game.

[@JacobiusNH80]

A good option would be to accelerate Harold's growth and then go tell Harold that by staying alive and growing many others could thrive. Society could even begin to rebuild. Also, he can still spend time with Yew and maybe make other friends. I would also tell Harold that as well. He does say that spending time with Yew makes him happy, so he isn't totally lost and unhappy. He does still have some happiness in life and people around him that do care about him. Even without accelerating his growth, he still serves a purpose to the Oasis community and I like how that is included if you don't kill Harold. He realizes that the community needs him and he seems to find some peace and reason to live in that. I'm sure he would be very happy to hear that he could help others in the Wasteland as well. The Treeminders can still protect him since he really can't do so himself and maybe the community will grow, whether Harold keeps growing or not. If anyone shows up to see Harold who wishes to harm him or just treat him like an experiment, then kick them out. Harold is still human and has emotions and should be treated has a human. Only allow those who respect that Harold is a human and who respect the community to stay. And why can't The Lone Wanderer visit Harold and bring him items like books and whatnot? I understand Ox's view here, but to me killing Harold doesn't benefit Harold or anyone else. I don't view Harold as a slave. He just is miserable having to be rooted in one place with only Treeminders (except Yew) as company. He wants to be treated like a human and not a god. I see hope in letting him live; hope for Harold, Oasis and the rest of the Wasteland.

[@joebenzz]

13:56 Let's be honest we all did a save right before trying that XD

[@dominicelwell5468]

the first time i attacked him it was with the shishkebab and he burned down

[@scottmccoy6383]

When I was younger burning him to death terrified me.

[@papa.scabby]

Okay, but can we talk about the sap that Tree Father Birch makes you drink? If it can stop the growth of a tree, then what does it do to a human being? ..Damn...

[@daanm3869]

I think it makes humas live longer. Or make them braindead like the other treeminders.

[@wyattunrue5354]

Probably makes them sterile

[@rahulsar2030]

Can't say what it does to them. But 1 drink from that sap will not make them braindead, I mean when lone wonderer drank the sap but didn't lose its intelligence. Also Herald is not a human anymore. The effects it has on herold will not affect the humans.

[@vinalia]

Hajime Hinata harold does say that it was made by one of the treeminders, it either makes them high (run around crazily) or make then unconscious and wake up seeing his face and become terrified

[@MisterJohnDoe]

There’s a random encounter where you meet a trader who presumably went through the same ritual. He talks about Harold like he’s a God like the other Treeminders would while moving his head around in a strange manner, so he must’ve went insane or delirious or something from it. When you finish speaking with him, he dies a moment afterwards. I guess the results from drinking the sap can vary, and you were lucky enough to not go through the same things as that guy.

[@baronvonkaiser9912]

since harold seems to be extremely lonely, they just move the center of their village to where Harold is and stop treating him like a god and start treating him like a person. administer the stuff that makes him grow and then get that water purifier to work and everyone including Harold benefits.

[@tentedkarma7465]

Not really since he's in pain all the time

[@baronvonkaiser9912]

@@tentedkarma7465 give that boi some aspirin

[@PedroSilva-gj1qt]

@@baronvonkaiser9912 Nah, he's just hungry, give him some snickers

[@christian1491]

Killing Harold is just sad and I kinda felt his pain, his deaths is one of the most memorable

[@thegreatandpowerfultwily394]

The thing is that he doesn't care about becoming a tree. He just sees no more reason to live after 2 centuries of wandering the wastes; all up and down the former U.S. If you let him live, you can tell him how the people around him look up to him, even Sapling Yew loves to talk to him at night. In a bleak world like Fallout's... I think they're overdue for a new god like Harold. To make them feel safe. To make them feel that, maybe... life can get better.

[@kiprasmedeisis5159]

Interesting as you actually have just described how Christianity came to existence in the first place. We know how it well turned out with that one.

[@bobbybologna3029]

Thing is Harold is being selfish when you meet him, he doesn't even bother considering those that rely on him, especially Sapling Yew who looks up to him and finds comfort in his being there. Then there's the matter of Harold getting Omnipresence from the plants. @Kipras Medeišis - Yeah.. the USA was birthed from it and is still considered the most free place in the world. Damn those Christians.

[@kiprasmedeisis5159]

Samuel Reyna And yet Americans were the ones to bring doom to the wastes as well. My point on how religion is born, wasn't an attempt to say that Christianity by itself is bad, but that it was designed to be used to direct masses. It is very likely that more and more Father or Mother take desicions FOR their god, more and more they are going to become gods themselves in people's eyes.

[@kiprasmedeisis5159]

My mistake, misunderstood you a little bit :p

[@brandon9172]

@@kiprasmedeisis5159 They wouldn't become gods. They would become prophets. Also, you're forgetting that Harold is immortal.

[@indifferentsmiley]

My philosophy is this: Harold is an individual, if he wants to die, especially for the amount of years he's lived and the restrictiveness of his situation. It is ultimately his decision on what he wants for his own life. Birch and Laurel are both forcing something on him he doesn't want. Burning him isn't evil, it's exactly what he wants it's painful and frankly a bit tortorous, but not evil since it's what he requests (though you can also destroy the heart too. There's that option also. Which is a faster death). Regardless of how he's killed it fulfills his request. But one other thing: it's clear death isn't really what he wants. If it was, Yew's presence honestly probably wouldn't make him happy. It's likely what's making him miserable is having to listen to everyone's problems and being treated like the one that's going to solve them since he's worshipped as an idol. If there were options to convince the worshippers to provide him with entertainment like a radio and treat him more like a friend than a god, I think it would do him some good. And even after that, if he wants to die, he should be granted the request, but I don't imagine he'd want to if his other needs were met and he was just treated like a person and given the same human decency of privacy, boundaries, and respect.

[@user-qp5yu1zq1m]

Man I wish this was in Fallout

[@ArtOfTheAncients]

One word= Centaurs

[@PATDkiid]

Um, He explicitly and firmly states that he does not want to burned to death because it would cause him extreme pain. We also learn from Yew that it’s his worst fear and he worries about it constantly. So that does bring us to the conclusion that burning him is evil and does not in any way fulfill his clear request to go into the caves and destroy his heart.

[@solrhopalocera5704]

Bringing life back to a dead wasteland so humanity can stop savagely fighting and murdering for scarce resources is way more important. In reality, there are no easy decisions. If we all lived according to the, “morals over necessity” philosophy, 90% of everything we’ve accomplished as a species and problems we’ve solved would still exist.

[@KvngLeroy1]

@@solrhopalocera5704 bringing life back wouldn't change anything though, people would still be as ruthless before. When the world is rebuilt in a few thousand years it'll be a wasteland again

[@gagaplex]

Uh, seeing that thumbail: Don't torture him to death with fire. That is all. One can make a good case for any of the other avilable actions.

[@magnoliamagpie1151]

Whenever I think of fall out 3, I always think of Harold. He just makes me so unbelievably sad tbh. I wish there were more options that the player could do for him. He honestly sounds so... lonely. They should honestly let more people talk to him, like Yue. Or get him a radio to give him updates on the world around him. Harold would probably feel so much better if they treated him like a human being rather than a Messiah. I even wish the Oasis would reach out to the wastelands to find scientists to separate Harold from the Bob conglomerate and give Harold back some autonomy. It sounds like he misses being able to do what he wants. I just feel really bad for him.

[@JXEditor]

Do you think the Biological Research Station at the Sink in the Big MT could clone Bob’s seed pods?

[@Jay-dp1jn]

That's actually really smart

[@johnflinga4680]

Big mountain can do anything

[@discordmarauder]

If they can make cazadores I’m pretty sure they can make a tree

[@JXEditor]

DiscordMarauder I’ve no doubt they can make a tree. The question is, “Can they make a tree that won’t try to murder people?”

[@discordmarauder]

Good question...

[@dagothur2666]

Oxhorn Hey, Oxhorn can we start putting up polls on the videos so the community can vote on which choice we think is the best option.

[@sawyer3818]

VictoriumStudios 78 the BOS suck

[@friendsquadzulu]

@@sawyer3818 got eem

[@SofaPop.]

That’s a wonderful idea

[@jackhazardous4008]

What happened to the poll feature, everyone was using it then suddenly stopped.

[@KawaiiCanadafreememes]

@@sawyer3818 How will the BOS ever recover

[@sway9935]

My character is all about "the ends justify the means" but harold is the one exception

[@birdfire0011]

I always destroy Harolds heart, as its the humane thing to do if I remember his story from fallout 1 or 2 he didn't choose to have the plant growing out of his head, but he did choose to keep it

[@datri3e110]

"Can you imagine being stuck here for cen-TREES"

[@sau1_g00dman]

._.

[@ultimatezx1889]

haha

[@bl4cksp1r1t4]

Stupid raider humour

[@OkamiZone]

I hate the whole "The needs of the many, out way the needs of the few." argument. The problem, in the real world, is that people would never sacrifice themselves for others. By others I don't mean family and friends; people won't give up their life for strangers. Humans aren't innately evil, but we are selfish. We don't want people to suffer in Africa, but we do nothing about it.

[@AlyxTheFluffy]

Y Tho

[@thetwistedsavant5821]

Personally i'd let him grow. Yes there is the 'using him as a slave' argument, but like he said himself, there are times when he can still be happy. I think he could have a life that's at least more happy than not if he was just able to get a bit of help to experience 'normal' life again. Have people to talk to (who don't see him as a god), bring him a radio, flip through a few pages of a book with him, maybe feed him? (Hestill has a mouth, teeth, and tongue after all.) All sorts of things to give him a life he can at least somewhat enjoy, all while knowing that he is (with any luck) making the WORLD better for people.

[@Noah-gk7rn]

I think his happiness should be out of the question when letting him live. Here is an idea, stand still for a couple minutes, hours, days, you can't eat, you can't drink, and you definitely can't sleep, no amount of books or people could bring you enough happiness if you had to experience that for hundreds of years. What if you side with laurel, after a couple years he would be completely surrounded in himself, forever alone in the dark with nothing to company him. If you let him live it's for anybody but him, don't try to rationalize it.

[@thetwistedsavant5821]

@@Noah-gk7rn He CAN be happy though. He says so himself when he's talking about the kid. I'm not saying he could have the best life in the wasteland, but if one kid can make him happy i'm sure people treating him like he's not a god could make him happy too. Treat him like a human helper instead of a god and he just might find a good purpose and meaning in his life. You can say "try standing still for a long time without food or sleep" but that's ghouls in a nutshell. Being a ghoul sucks, that's unarguable, but if you could at least be a tree-ghoul with a purpose you could still enjoy living.

[@Noah-gk7rn]

@@thetwistedsavant5821 What happens when he loses an audience though? This is a post-apocalyptic wasteland bound by no laws of man, some super mutants could role around one day and decimate the tree cult, potentially leaving Harold alone again, and what if that doesn't happen, did you even read what I said, maybe you did, did you think about it? Do you think you could find happiness hundreds of years alone, or worse yet surrounded by people who can't give you the one thing that every living being seeks eventually? Death?

[@-gemberkoekje-5547]

@@Noah-gk7rn You kill raiders every day in this game. They are bad people, but still people, and you dont know what they think or do when you are not around. All of them probably with relatives who dont have them anymore. You have done worse as a player in fallout 3.

[@Noah-gk7rn]

@@-gemberkoekje-5547 Just because you kill people trying to do harm to yourself, makes it okay to let someone rot and go insane in eternal loneliness then?

[@Atonac]

I haven’t gotten to him yet but I will end his suffering. And I’ll even drop some of my best stuff just for him.

[@stephenknizek2651]

My friend, President Eden, assured me that Harold’s service to the Capital Wasteland would be a welcome boon to the Enclave.

[@Snavels]

I side with Laurel, after I explain everything, he comes to terms with it and seems to be happier after it finding a new purpose in life.

[@TW-sh2un]

Maybe he’s okay in the moment, but what about 100 years later, or 100 years after that. He’s stuck in one spot for eternity. In real life, a few days of solitary confinement in prisons can destroy a persons mind. Imagine months going by where nothing happens at all and you’re entirely alone. That’s just endless suffering

[@aceadamgaming405]

Tim W still, he’s in the middle of a massive forest with birds and insects. That’s completely different from solitary confinement.

[@reillywalker195]

I ended up making the same choice when confronted with this quest, and I got the same takeaway. I couldn't bring myself to kill him, so I did what felt like the next best thing-to give his life new meaning by making him grow faster-and he actually seemed glad I didn't carry out his original wish.

[@Xo-3130]

@@TW-sh2un The little girl may help with that. Who knows when she grows up she might help make things comfortable. A radio to listen to and a few people to just you know... talk to and listen. Sure they might still worship him but at least its better interactions.

[@TW-sh2un]

Emp United You realize since he’s essentially immortal that the amount of time she spends with him is a blink of an eye? That little girl grows up and keeps him company for maybe 80 years. The colony will be dead within a couple 100. He could live for 10,000 years or longer. That’s 9000+ years of no interaction, just staring at the same wall, unable to move or end his state in any way. That would be a living hell for any conscious mind

[@lewis251100]

here's an interesting follow up question: Could we wait kill Harold XX years later when the other trees have covered most of the wasteland and perhaps start developing seeds of there own?

[@nah4467]

That's what I thought but remember he's bored but his leaves are his eyes so by siding with Laural he can see and watch othee wastelanders. It reminds me of Caleb's fate in Fallout 4 but much more complex.

[@christianjohnson5379]

@@ryszakowy but if you accelerate his grow, tree start covering the wasteland within decades.

[@goldendon511]

@@ryszakowy and dont forget look around him those trees grew within 20 years that large because he was there for around 20-30 years so they already grow at an extreme rate

[@bierlichen1]

@@ryszakowy The trees are growing because of Harold. They weren't growing before Harold.

[@GrimDaTroller]

lewis251100 I was thinking that same thing

[@reiphas]

In my first playthrough I expanded his growth, but holy crap, It took me days to make that decision. And I still regretted it. If only those idiot Treeminders treated him like a person leaving him alive wouldn't feel so cruel.

[@proudlywild1491]

On the bright side u sorta saved hundreds of people and helped millions

[@terreliv]

1. Tell Harold you've got a plan. 2. Sap him. 3. Dose him with Med-X. 4. Start hacking off tree parts. 5. Cauterize the skin there for good measure. 6. Graft "Bob" onto one of his kid-plants. 7. Liniment the new Bob.

[@lorddemonoss3945]

I did everything I could to help the treeminers. But Herald asked me to end his pain. So I did.

[@syntaxerror4683]

Agreed

[@evgeniblanchard675]

Comprehensible choice .

[@sharonhilton8670]

Yo don't burn him! Wood is important! No wood=not a lot of places to live!!!!!! One like=save Harold

[@lorddemonoss3945]

@@sharonhilton8670 I didn't burn him. I just blew his brain out.

[@Silver_wind_1987_]

@@lorddemonoss3945 head shot...quick easy....painless he felt nothing

[@armouredalex7590]

Its a hard question but I killed Harold as he wanted as it was his decision he would kill himself if he could and I would probably want someone to end my misery if I was trapped in one spot for eternity but thats my opinion

[@michaeljones7916]

Actually, the irony is if he could move enough to kill himself he wouldn't have been depressed in the first place. He was a ghoul so he was gonna live forever anyway one place is as good as any other.

[@banginbadger75]

If you decide to burn him to death his scream is truly horrific and disturbing.

[@demonpride1975]

@@michaeljones7916 but the question is, would it be true mobility, or would it be the ability to simply turn a little bit, or maybe use one arm.

[@vellinghem2187]

The whole ethical argument behind Harolds desire to die is a load of Brahmin shit. This is a situation where there’s no right answer...but it varies from person to person. From community to community that’s in harolds company at the time. That’s how i see it...from where I’m standing if I was the lone wanderer and Harold asked me to kill him...looking at his entire situation I’d kill him without any hint of doubt in my decision. I’d feel guilty killing him...I’d have to live with that choice all my life knowing I killed what seemed like someone who’d be a good conversationist and someone who’s seen this nuclear war from the very beginning. that I couldn’t help in any other way..but I’d know there’s no other choice in the matter and I’d do it again. Anyone who thinks letting one person or a small group of people suffer for “the greater good” as shown from that scene in Hot Fuzz will literally never have to worry about being in the shoes of the victim. No one in human history has ever found themselves in a situation where they’re trapped against they’re will in some shape or form and thought “naw you know what? It’s fine..I don’t mind this..I’m helping other people...my suffering will benefit society.” No one..and Obviously, That’s why people who think to keep Harold alive for the greater good will be totally fine with it until it’s they’re turn...a turn they’d never have to fear arriving because Harold is trapped for all eternity. Harolds desire to die obviously stems from extreme boredom, irritation, unable to eat, sleep, walk around. He can’t even move enough to end his own life OF COURSE HE’D WANT TO DIE!! Since Harold was a ghoul before he was obviously going to live for what seems like an eternity. Why he never minded his situation before is because he had total control over his fate...he was a regular person like all of us. Take that control away and what are you left with? A thinking person trapped in a body that’s no longer yours because you have no control over it. Others will say “oh Harold will have company” “what about Yew she’s Harold friend” “Just get Harold a radio, a book, friends, do stuff for him.” Well guess what? He’s still got NO CONTROL over his own actions. Who the hell would want to live they’re life being cared after not able to do a single thing for yourself?? And I do literally mean a single thing...I don’t mean jobs or labor. Also these people in Oasis will die..eventually. Yew will die..eventually. You can argue future generations of humans will care for Harold as the treeminders did. Guess what? People don’t know that..the lone wanderer was able to figure out Harold’s not a god..just a man trapped in a tree...able to produce unlimited resources for all time. so that means plenty of other people could figure that out too. And humans can become fucking evil scumbags. If not Raider, slavers, talon company. Any faction of evil intent find Harold and take advantage. But even future treeminders could. Hypothetically speaking...What’s stopping a treeminder from say 150 years in the future to suddenly realize “Oh wait...you can’t do anything, we don’t need to worship, or even care for you..like at all. No you will serve us no matter what” And then they will reap the rewards from it. If Harold could move and break himself free of bob/Herbert then all of this would be muted as he’d lose the only reason to want to kill him self and continue on with his long life. But since he cannot. And all of the books, humans, radios, music whatever in the world would break ANYONE eventually into wishing to just die. Besides if that were me I’d be sick of hearing the same old songs on the radio, or talking to the same people, seeing the same sights by 3 years if I’m lucky. What makes Harold who’s BEEN in this wasteland for two centuries already any different? Harold is suffering an eternal Hell of having no control over his own fate..that he must rely on the mercy of wastelanders or the goddamn cooks he’s stuck with to do for him. No amount of company or entertainment will ever EVER make anyone wish to be alive at that point. So yeah...I’d kill him, the old ghoul’s suffered enough at this point.

[@gabrielkyomen4782]

I agree that destroying his heart it's the best but i believe that perk it gaves it's actually a clue that the lone wanderer will turn himself into a tree just like Harold in the future. The cycle will repeat

[@TheJabbate1]

Reminds me of the short story "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas." An entire city lives in a fairy tale-like bliss all at the cost of keeping one child in perpetual agony.

[@starvoyager2094]

I love that Story! But it was never explained why the child had to be kept in such horrid conditions. They way they described him made me really sad.

[@MunciMunci]

Why didnt harold just say "Bother me when its important, and get me a radio!" Problem solved.

[@demonpride1975]

because he's tried to tell them stuff like that, they don't listen to him.

[@NathanKirby2001]

It's worse than prison he litterlay cannot do anything

[@NathanKirby2001]

Figure out how to free him

[@bobthebuilder1360]

@@NathanKirby2001 I mean he can always grow

[@twopackssugar8519]

Cuz nothing they can bring up is important to him

[@BAGELMENSK]

Life is slavery to existence, to yourself, and to those around you. In the end, if you can convince Harold that his life is worth living in service to his people or to the Commonwealth, it will be better than his pointless death. Maybe someone should consider reading some books to Harold? He seems interested in reading and that would be yet another way to make his life bearable. Other concessions of this nature should be made in order to keep Harold happy, if only as a compensation for the immense service he provides to the world.

[@reaperofzombies9698]

The man tree does literally nothing. How... Exactly is he enslaved? Bc he is depressed and noone is killing him, instead caring for him. I dont understand this point people are trying to push

[@BAGELMENSK]

@@reaperofzombies9698 He literally can't move from that spot he's in. It is not enslavement to any master or person, but enslavement to the predicament he is in, no real control over his life.

[@jonathansteppig4116]

That's an awfully depressing way of looking at the world. I disagree. People enslave other people, that has happened; it still happens. But are we really just slaves to our own lives? Are we slaves to everyone in our presence? I don't think so. I say that the only thing that can enslave you besides people are the bad decisions you make, and falling into despair because of them. I mean no offense, but that's what your point of view sounds like.

[@BAGELMENSK]

@@jonathansteppig4116 perhaps enslavement is a harsh term for it, but in the end that's what it is, it doesn't prevent us from being happy or successful or anything else, it is simply part of the rules we all have to live by.

[@mikee143]

Maybe the treeminers could have shifts to keep him happy through reading to him and having conversations instead of praising him like a god as he has no care for that. PS: It is definitely enslavement if he is being forced to do something he doesn't want to do

[@deviousslugcat4201]

You say "Dead burt trees" While you have an Overgrowth mod. lol

[@craigcraig8907]

It's not wrong, the man has lived two full lifetimes in one spot, death would be a gift. Having said that, I always strengthen his heart, his soldier seed program is what will bring the land back to life.

[@hunter5822]

He feels through the trees so you should expand turn him into a god.

[@crypto1223]

But if he expands, and no one learns that Oasis is the center of it, people will just think the trees have miraculously made a comeback, and will start cutting them down for lumber with no care for whence it came. Harold would be a god only to the Treeminders, to the rest of the capital wasteland, a myth.

[@momgirlcop1]

crypto1223 well considering 3 dog knows about it( and he is the general source of information on stuff about the wasteland for most people in the area) I’m pretty sure people will likely find out that oasis is the source of it all, and the capital wastelanders will also likely spread information about oasis

[@allfiction8905]

Disagreed

[@senorlechuga8832]

I stopped his growth and I regret it. He said he could see through leaves so accelerating the growth would help him discover new places ;-;

[@officialroxxmusic]

Harold needs to practice his ability to see through all the plants and he wouldn’t be so bored. Between that and the company of Yew and the Lone Wanderer plus his followers if they visit, his life would be much improved.

[@1goofydude]

Spreading him across the wasteland would lead to more ways to entertain him, and I think Yew would help with the whole "they look for deeper meaning" thing and help get him things he wants that would make his life easier, or even enjoyable.