Is Jordan Peterson Hollywood’s New Villain?

[@juliojap6470]

Guys, Jared is clearly ramping up quality. please show him some love and support so we can continue to get better and better. There is a Ko-fi link in the description.

[@JaredBauer]

❤️

[@juliojap6470]

It's like Patreon but you don't even need an account, guys.

[@suzygirl1843]

@@JaredBauer Personally, I don't care. I just hate the fact that he denied The West's bad influence on Africa. Sorry but Europe underdeveloped Africa. That's a fact. Africans would do better with zero Western influence. We'll see with China how it's gonna grow into the 21st century

[@maxtheawesome4255]

@@suzygirl1843 I don't know about that since western powers left tons of advanced infrastructure for them to to use, which has largely been abandoned, like the stuff the Dutch left in the Congo. It could have been used to uplift themselves. The same way England largely wasted away after the Romans left instead of quickly developing. Yes, the remaining infrastructure also left Africa divided because all the infrastructure leads to the sea, and yes that has made it so cooperation between neigboring countries is more expensive than shipping overseas, but people like to forget that Africa is a continent. They are not a homegenous, friendly coalition, they are neigboring countries with some of the oldest rivalries known to history. Without these wars already in Africa, the whole slave trade wouldn't have existed. Once they realised their profits, the wars got worse, and the West got better prices. But, this is by no means a Western only problem. Even earlier, trade with Muslims along the Silk Road was also abundant in slaves, for like 400 years. And then there's the cultural decline of Northern Europe from all the slaving in the Slavic countries. It's not quite as simple as you make it out to be. Would Africa be better if the West never went there? I don't think so, because the East was too. Would Africa be better if it was completely isolated? Maybe not, they wouldn't have got nearly as rich and powerful as they did before collapsing without outside resources. And now, many countries a developing which would be impossible without external forces. I'm also pretty scared about China...their envolvement is pretty exploitative. Not a fan.

[@suzygirl1843]

@@maxtheawesome4255 Dude, I'm not reading an essay.

[@Monsteretrope]

Jesus, I'm glad I'm not a public figure. The way people interpret things would leave me speechless (literally, I wouldn't want to say anything).

[@angryherbalgerbil]

That's why "they're" doing it. That's fascisim and tyranny at work. No better way to silence people than to have them apply their own gag out of fear, shame, and doubt. Literally how every evil ideology works.

[@james0805]

Well Peterson is a media attention whore..he brings it on himself

[@djanitatiana]

So true. This is the great harm of the culture war, the chill factor utterly kills creativity, where so many good ideas originate.

[@vaderjohnson1525]

I have followed Jared since his Wisecrack days. I always appreciated his ability to look beyond cliches and integrate different sources of knowledge when analysing content. Not always agreed with the analysis, but I think I have never not-appreciated HOW he builds these analyses and the points he makes. I just wanna say thanks for great food for thought over these years.

[@dhayes907]

Longtime fan myself. Similar obsession with the matrix. Jared is a little older han myself and has read more philosophy. I want to be like Jared when I grow up.

[@dunnowy123]

Wisecrack has really fallen off since he left, tbh. A lot of the nuance and thoughtfulness is gone. It now feels like the department of Critical Theory at your local college nowadays imo

[@TEGRIDY_FARMS]

Just unsubbed from wisecrack and subbed here. Didn’t know he left.

[@RichardAcevedo2814]

@@TEGRIDY_FARMS lol same

[@RaphaelAlejandro]

This is the type of nuanced analysis and perspective we need more on KZbin, life, politics and businesses. We are so superficial, everything is black and white.

[@americasqb]

^^^

[@Dave_of_Mordor]

everything is black and white

[@FINNSTIGAT0R]

KZbin is packed full of nuanced takes on everything. You just have to look, and not just wait until it pops up into your home feed.

[@RaphaelAlejandro]

@@FINNSTIGAT0R Okay.

[@Hemlocker]

@@FINNSTIGAT0R Do you have any recommendations? I have the home page & recommendations tabs disabled (otherwise I'd scroll for hours!).

[@jamesbourgeois1357]

I lost track of Jared after he left wisecrack. I'm glad to have found him again. Quality insights.

[@mattbeatgoeson]

It was an honor to get to collaborate with you!

[@dhayes907]

You just got yourself at least one more view. If you make content on par with Jared, you will get a like and subscription as well.

[@MrExtraordinaire16]

Hey Mr beat, big fan of your video.

[@cadearcher2258]

I’m genuinely convinced anyone who has a foaming at the mouth hatred for Jordan Peterson hasn’t actually listened to him for any significant length of time. He’s definitely not right about everything he’s ever said (no one is) but I’ve had a hard time ever finding a moment when he didn’t seem like he was legitimately trying to discuss what’s true or not. He’s much more nuanced and reasonable than so many people have even listened enough to realize

[@JonathonJDog]

My biggest gripe with a lot of his "critics" is how they call him the Incel King and shit like that. He constantly denounces the idea of lonely men victimizing themselves and blaming women, and tries to encourage them to look within themselves for what needs improving.

[@Thumbdumpandthebumpchump]

That used to be true, but he's been pretty cruddy lately.

[@nobubblegums-1899]

@@Thumbdumpandthebumpchump Yeah, the guy only has himself to blame, what Jared talks as the "sensationalized" view was literally propagated by Peterson himself, by meddling in stuff he had little knowledge about and chiming into whatever topic was trending. Case in point, his obsession with Elliot Page. The supposedly individualist guy lost his mind because someone decided for transition, not to mention labeling the surgeon "criminal", that's like the language used by anti-abortionist to provoke ppl to attack clinics and I haven't seen him attack women/surgeons who do breast enlargement. He literally gives away Ye vibes at this point, it's more sad than frustrating

[@Thumbdumpandthebumpchump]

@@nobubblegums-1899 A near death experience and horrible drug adiction will do that to you I guess. He was never truly great, but he was a man I at least respected. I don't hate him now, but I don't respect him either.

[@burningmagyk4986]

You'd be surprised. My ex really hates Jordan, and she's listened to at least a couple of his videos. She did misinterpret a lot of what he said though.

[@JaJaHerSelF]

Jared I'm in awe of your dedication to a fair analysis!! I sometimes forget that your channel exists and whenever I catch one of your videos in my subscription box I'm enamoured by the level-headed perspective you bring to the table. I actually *gain* something from your videos instead of just feeding my opinions and beliefs back to me ...or hate-watching because I already know I'm going to disagree lol. I really wish you all the best and think you deserve so much more recognition for the work you do.

[@ZachBobBob]

My issue with Don't Worry Darling honestly is that it didn't lean into it's themes or commentary enough. They could've dived big time into the manosphere/incel communities but instead that stuff is just window dressing. Same with the romantising of the 50s.

[@saisameer8771]

They could've done that if Olivia wilde actually understood the general nuances of what these communities are and why they are a thing in the first place. Problem is she doesn't want to see these types of people as human. I would argue that most of this is really more of a side effect of how social media algorithms work. Instead of uniting people it has created a huge mess of these isolated communities who pretty much refuse to understand each other.

[@williamjenkins4913]

That would be interesting but I have zero faith in Wilde and little in Hollywood's ability to do that without making a dumb hateful men = bad show.

[@cortster12]

Regardless of Petterson as a person, it hurts to hear that sticking up for disenfranchised men makes you a villain. There are so many other things one might pick apart about his character, which I may or may not agree with, but this one aspect isn't bad. It's... tragic. It's no wonder successful male suicide attempts are so high if this is how the average person views any man who struggles in this particular way.

[@The_Catalyzt]

You are definitely over-simplifying why Jordan Peterson wears that villain hat so well. It's not just about sticking up for disenfranchised men, and quite frankly it was his lectures about getting yourself moving while you're at the pit of despair that drew me to him in the first place. His problem is that, for him, sticking up for disenfranchised men means putting down people who are different from him. It means holding up the current power structure that is unfair to everybody who isn't a rich white man. He uses a lot of big words and grand ideas in order to say, out loud, that the current power structure and "traditionalist" values of women and people of color being second class citizens is NATURAL...It's SUPPOSED to be this way, he argues. And the reason why, among many other things, is because of his observations of lobsters outside of their natural habitat... He seems to excel in finding many reasons to infer that lgbtq, women, and darker skin toned people should just stay as they are and not fight for more equality. As a matter of fact, according to Peterson, we WANT to be subjugated by the current hegemony. There's a reason he's become a defacto spokesperson for far right wing groups. You'll find his talking points and ideas spouted by actual nazis. It's THESE people who really take to his messages of "disenfranchised young men." Racists love playing the victim...Jordan Peterson makes it a little easier for them to feel smart while they do it.

[@Hemlocker]

Yeah, the way the media responds to the whole topic of incels often seems a bit sad to me. This is supposedly a group of disenfranchised young men, who feel like they are locked out of the dating/sexual world due to factors out of their control, and the media's response to them often seems to be shame or outright ridicule. I don't blame the incels who feel like nobody is listening to them or cares about their struggles.

[@CuZtuga]

Brother, no one has a problem with trying to help disenfranchised men, it's all the other baggage Peterson has. What does lying about bill C16 and feeding hatred towards trans people have to do with "sticking up for disenfranchised men"? People say the exact same thing about Andrew Tate, almost like his entire persona and rethoric revolves around solely helping men. Get real and stop being dishonest, actually try to understand what point the other side is trying to make. There are plenty of people who can give good general advice to men without being right wing lunatics.

[@Hemlocker]

@@CuZtuga > What does lying about bill C16 and feeding hatred towards trans people have to do with "sticking up for disenfranchised men"? I don't know, you tell us. You're the one that brought it up. Nobody was talking about it. It's possible to discuss/criticise a particular perspective a person has without having to talk about every single belief they have. If you want to talk about Peterson's other views, feel free to start your own conversation about them. And if you really think "no one has a problem with trying to help disenfranchised men", then you haven't paid any attention to how the media talks about incels.

[@brucerash3873]

@@The_CatalyztI’m a white man, not too rich. What would you say of me?

[@VonFels]

Jared, thanks for a full spectrum perspective rather than thw standard black and white/us vs them miopic perspwctive we usually get. This was a much better analysis of this film (which my 17 year old son enjoyed as a 2 -hour twilight zone episode) than most of the surface level vitriolic reviews on the internet.

[@arcarsenal1380]

I mean, that's all well and good. But when you're dealing was a bad faith agent of misinformation division for profit like JP. I Don't think we need any nuance. He's just a bad person being paid to do bad things

[@mileslugo6430]

What about Wilde's character in the movie? She knows about the simulation and participates in it willingly because of her own reasons.

[@Simhaldvip]

Kind of a Freudian slip...

[@oerthling]

Her own very tragic reasons.

[@danielallen3454]

The thing is, while Peterson may not be calling for a system of enforced monogamy, there are fans of his that are and use his words to back themselves up.

[@ArtFlunky]

“So Your Saying: The Movie”

[@charliebailey9587]

I didn’t realize you had left wisecrack, but did miss your balanced reasoning. Glad I stumbled onto your channel.

[@doincody]

I generally can't stand videos critiquing or explaining Peterson because usually his points aren't explained in good faith, but I'm glad I clicked on this one. I think this was done fairly, and without an agenda beyond making an entertaining and thought provoking video. Well done

[@BishopWalters12]

I agree

[@keepingitkianatural]

​@RancorousSea shhh stop challenging the dominant problematic sentiments in these comments.

[@itsirrelephantman]

Peterson is basicly just a bog standard Christian fundementalist at heart.

[@TheVeillin]

Jared I was still watching wisecrack wondering why I didn’t like it anymore. I immediately realized you weren’t there and I searched your name. I’m glad I found this channel. keep it up

[@Wingedmagician]

Wisecrack = the cell “Postmodern neomarxism” aka critical social justice = the virus

[@MrExtraordinaire16]

I'm not gonna lie. My perception kinda mixed up between him and the bald guy with the same orange hair😅. Idk, when I kinda got mixed up and therefore didn't know he left.

[@keepingitkianatural]

You can support Jared without pooping on Wisecrack. I think they are still putting out great content.

[@SeveringJuan]

1:31 I choked on my drink I've only thought of Petersonian things in the context of Speedrun and Shadow the hedgehog

[@corneliusquincydavenportic1913]

"You're a beta male, Sonic"

[@wowman542]

To your point on how films rarely tackle structural problems as opposed to boiling them down to individually bad characters, I'd be curious to hear your take on the disney animated movie "Strange world" as the plot takes an environmentalist angle in tackling how a towns dependence on a resource ends up hurting them in the long run.

[@brymht]

The Synopsis of Peterson's ideas is much more clear and accurate than the Wisecrack video, the good and the bad. Much more clear here. Well done. :)

[@buddermonger2000]

It's honestly quite disappointing for wisecrack

[@BiqNiqq]

Can’t believe I just found this channel. Haven’t heard anything this refreshing and mine opening since you where on wisecrack

[@anthonyscheibmeir2444]

yeah wisecrack took a nosedive when this guy left.

[@metaphortheg7248]

wiscrack has really gone down downhill since your departure, this is most level headed and maybe unbiased review of a movie I've seen in a long time on youtube. I hope you keep posting quality reviews like this.

[@casusolivas]

starting for trying to defame J Peterson... very poorly btw.

[@futurestoryteller]

Not true at all, I've watched two of his videos on his channel so far and they're both false equivelency, golden means bs takes. If anything it makes me wonder whether his exit was truly of his own volition. I suppose he would need this mythologizing to build a loyal audience for his personal channel. But given his work on Wisecrack I'm disappointed to see his unfiltered pop criticisms.

[@hebercluff1665]

@@futurestoryteller your comment confuses me. I found this channel just now. Can you tell me what you mean?

[@futurestoryteller]

@@hebercluff1665 He attempts to be even handed in a comically over-compensated way. In a video where he breaks down memes - which might be all you need to know, frankly - he criticizes a left-wing twitter user over their use of the phrase CRT. Critical Race Theory. Apparently an advanced law school elective designed to teach students the ripple effect of prior discriminatory legal practices on current law. I may be wrong on some details, but while Jared might pedantically assert that these details are actually important - assuming he cared what I had to say anyway, the fact is that the actual, original and intended meaning of the phrase does not matter. This is not how it was used, it was used to insist that children (not law students) need to be taught the history of racism in this country and how it effects our culture today. So arguably it is the same basic idea. Jared claims this misrepresents the right-wing position against teaching CRT to children, by reducing it down to an opposition to teaching kids the history of racism. Even though there is _more_ than enough evidence to support the argument that this is exactly what they *are* doing. Especially since they have no reason to oppose CRT being taught to children in the first place because CRT is not being taught to children, CRT by this purist's definition _can't_ be taught to children. He criticized someone for a misdefinition set by oposition in bad faith by arguing that *they* are setting a bad _precedent_ by misdefining the word so that they can argue in "bad faith" that opposition is doing what they _are _*_self-evidently_*_ trying to do!_ No reference at all to where this concession or misattribution originated, just "that's ridiculous, lefty, CRT isn't being taught to children, come on." That's the argument! That's already _the_ left-wing argument when these terms are set for this conversation. So why not argue against the party resetting the terms? He just needs to dig up some random leftie to criticize so he can do his best impression of the Neutrals from Futurama He calls these memes "thought terminating cliches" I couldn't believe that one reaction so much that I scrolled through and found him trashing somebody who said the "The people who say you won't get pregnant if you don't have sex are the same people who believe a virgin gave birth to their messiah two thousand years ago." Setting aside the myriad ways we can discuss this as an actual conflict in logic, the fact remains, this clearly IS meant to be nothing more than a funny observation, and not an intellectual conversation starter. Jared is actually the one acting in bad faith by treating it as anything different. He thinks it is of no value to to criticize in this way. So what is the value in focusing in on these "criticisms" narrowing the field of view far and away from the actual issues at hand. Just like it doesn't make sense to criticize Olivia Wild's movie by claiming it makes the same mistake Peterson does while all but taking Peterson at his every word regardless of how his actions contradict them. Makes it seem like the movie can be hypocritical, but Peterson can't.

[@hebercluff1665]

@@futurestoryteller I see. First, I do appreciate that you have an in depth response to my question. I have a personal grudge against people who self-righteously assert their opinions on people without having the respect to actually explain their thoughts. Pressing your opinion without taking the time to do this means that you don't respect other people's autonomy and free will. I mean, I don't normally like talking about politics - not because I don't think it's an interesting or relevant topic, but because most political discussions comprise of a bunch of children all but screaming their opinions at each other. Anyway, so reading your comment did make me feel happy. It's good to see that some people are ok with just explaining their reasoning rather than taking offense at someone questioning them. ______ Now, about your comment, you are referencing many videos that I haven't watched before, so I can't really refute or agree with you. (Frankly, I probably won't watch them, simply because I found this video - thinking it was a simple movie review for a movie I hadn't heard of before. Plus, I respect Jordan Peterson for the most part, and I saw his name on the video title.) However I still have SOMETHING to say, at least. ______ First off, content creators of any kind (KZbinrs, journalists, movie directors, even politicians) will thrive in their industry more if they cater to humans' instinctual thirst for conflict. People like to watch one person verbally rib apart another person - hence, all the "[insert person we like] DESTROYS [insert person person we don't like]!!!" videos you'll find. To conclude that point, I suspect that so many people watch videos like that because, more than looking for enlightenment or self improvement, they're looking to be entertained. Frankly, watching someone sit back and batter someone else's movie into oblivion IS entertaining. But to me, that's all videos like this are - entertainment built to satisfy human instinct. (I went on this tangent as a response to you mentioning this guy attacking a meme.) ________ Now, as for your point about CRT, I really think there's a lot of confusion about that topic on all sides of the political spectrum. Heck, I'm confused too. I hate the kind of arguments that only exist because nobody can define a word or phrase. Instead of whining at each other over what CRT means, isn't it better to just forget the label and take about raw ideas? So instead of trying to define what it (CRT) means, I'll just say this. Teaching people the natural, historical effects and realities of slavery is completely necessary. However, using the history of slavery as an excuse to hate white people is reprehensible, since I believe that hatred is evil. Basically, I've heard some say that CRT is just a desire to teach the realities of slavery, and explore how the history of such a thing can still be felt today. If that's what it is, then it's a good thing in my opinion. However, I've also heard others say that CRT is a racist philosophy that asserts that black people are good, white people are evil, and that white people today should feel personally guilty for what other white people did decades or centuries ago. If that's what CRT is, then I can never support it. All that line of thinking breeds is resentment on all sides. It's the kind of philosophy that can only destroy - not build. Anyway, I like to stay away from the term "CRT". Words or phrases that don't have a concrete definition, or that nobody can agree on.... ... What's the point of using those words? Anyway, I just think that children should be taught the good, the bad, and the ugly of history. I don't think children should be fed political activism of any kind. After all, teaching children political activism makes the subject an emotional one for them - not a rational one. It hurts them a lot. Trust me. My middle school history teacher was a very "American nationalist, conservative" old lady. I won't get into the specifics, but I lost the ability to critically think about the subject for a very long time. (Nowadays, I don't really love America, but I don't hate it either. The more I look at it, the more the US just seems like a country full of normal people, and founded by normal people.) For the same reason that I hate conservative activism being taught in history class, I also hate progressive activism being taught to children. People should just be encouraged to think for themselves, then talk things out like civilization adults. ______ Now, as for you talking about this guy pretending to be fair and centrist in his videos, yet being heavily biased and looking for faults where there were none, I'd like to just say this. I don't really think that anyone can talk about anything without being biased. However, it's good to at least TRY to be fair minded. To me, being fair means that you allow other people to have their opinions - giving them free space to express themselves. You can try to convince them, but you inevitably have to walk away WITHOUT MORALLY CONDEMNING THEM. It's far too tempting to chalk up your differences to "It's all because they're a horrible person! If they were a good person, then they'd agree with me!" Now, I don't know if this KZbinr is: 1) trying to be fair, yet failing. 2) feeding off of humans natural lust for conflict so that he can get views. Those are the only two options for me since, by nature, I think that nobody can completely succeed at being fair-minded. The best we can do is try. ________ Anyway, I don't really know if any of your points are valid, and I'll probably never know (since I'll probably float my way to another portion of the internet soon enough). However, you have a long, thorough response to my question, and I appreciate that - hence, I'm giving you the same treatment.

[@TheRoomforImprovement]

I’m impressed that you approached this topic with such a nuanced perspective. People seem very split on the subject and there are times where I feel like I’ve traded one echo chamber for another. Thank you for proving a balanced perspective is possible.

[@ionceexisted]

Hey Jared! Its so good to hear from you again. And thank you so much for this balanced and refreshing view. Eye-opening to the tidbits behind the arguments and POVs

[@isurcantu5560]

Damn I didn't know you were back I never stop watching all your old videos, it's great to finally find you!!!!

[@ChrisSudlik]

Peterson knows precisely how big a factor capitalism is, he works for capitalists in the worst way.

[@joeblaster8770]

It would of been more interesting if it was her idea to enter the dream world and Jack was doing what she told him to.

[@DaBigBrozer]

That's a whole movie based on the "so what you're saying is..." Meme

[@robertlustmord1636]

A point of contention. If economy is the issue, then why us third worlders don't have this declining marital trend, and only dipped during lockdown? I think it's equally reductive to downplay the socio-cultural factors and critiques. It seems to me that this is only prevalent mostly on 1st world and western societies.

[@Kylephibbsky]

That's an excellent counterpoint. Blaming the economy also ignores that generally speaking married people tend to generate and retain wealth much better than single and unmarried couples. It's a not insubstantial reason why black Americans have struggled to create and maintain generational wealth (notwithstanding other factors). It's also a big reason why the general economic fortunes of the poor white, black and otherwise across the west has been getting worse in almost direct correlation with declining marriage rates. It isn't as simple as "feminism bad" nor "capitalism bad" there are comorbidities that are pushing everyone down both culturally and economically.

[@myteli]

While I agree with the majority of this criticism, I would argue Wilde DID try to strike a more nuanced approach to her characters. The story failed to fully flesh out the antagonists motives in exchange for an effort to create a big plot twist ending.

[@konstantinosstag6436]

In what way would you say she tried to create nuance?

[@myteli]

@@konstantinosstag6436 none of the characters were 100% bad or good. The wife had a thriving career but neglected her personal life. The husband was ideal until his career wasn't exactly flourishing. The founder believed he held the solution to these "modern problems", but executed it in an immoral fashion.

[@konstantinosstag6436]

@@myteli I see. I haven't brought myself to watch it just yet. Thank you for your input.

[@writingpanda]

Excellent analysis! I appreciate the work you put into this video.

[@esteb6544]

This felt very wisecracky. Jared era Wisecrack. Keep it up! And The Beat Goes On is an awesome channel too!

[@LightsOnTrees]

I did not know you'd come back to making videos. Extremely glad to have had KZbin throw you in my face, all the best my man.

[@Lovetsonmarq]

I just noticed that you have a channel! I used to watch you host wise crack back in my teens . I'm so glad to found this

[@chrismeetswest]

Jared, buddy. I’d love to get your thoughts on Tar. I have to say Cate’s performance kept me engaged for the majority of the film and I thought there were a lot of beautiful scene compositions, but by the end I was let down by the final act and felt like it didn’t deliver on its potential.

[@BishopWalters12]

Good movie, I agree that it kind of lost its way in the 3rd act but it was nice to see a modern day movie show the problems with cancel culture and these Zoomer adults that are so childish that they view people from different centuries with a modern day mindset.

[@chrismeetswest]

@@BishopWalters12 I thought that was where we were going, but by the end I felt they muddled their messaging with her infatuation with her new orchestra member and her cancellation. I also felt that it kind of lost track of itself and what it was trying to say in the end. I'd say we got a "new age" structure about the classical composer. Still some good acting and beautiful shots.

[@ryankay8653]

this is by far the most balanced critic I've ever seen in any medium

[@jonnyleeg4058]

I want to thank you for this video. As close to objectivity as anyone can be.

[@e.w.3989]

it sounds like a great concept that doesn't go anywhere.

[@daltonbedore8396]

because its hollywood. they are funded largely by the same corporations that create thecurrent dystopia we endure

[@tanishpanjwani3117]

Hey Jared. I have followed Dr. Peterson's work for quite some time, and I can say this is one of the best and moderate critiques I've come across. It does not assign labels, but explores how ideas can be pushed to their extreme without balancing nuance. I appreciate your work

[@dhayes907]

Your inner space and outer space are reflections of each other. You have to master your self before you can hope to master the world around you. You have to have at least one vague truism in a self help book before you can throw your opinions in as fact.

[@stevenpictures1]

wisecrack just isn't the same without you.

[@Mysticmegster1]

This is definitely a fair and balanced review. Yes the social factors do need to be taken into account. And I do like the irony that to protray Alice and Jack as being happier in the 1950 s simulation and miserable in the 'present day' proves the exact opposite of the film s intended message

[@azeemkhan1066]

it doesnt prove the opposite point. the simulation isnt real, that's the point. incels who think theyd be happier in a more hierarchical 50s because their imagination of it isnt real. how do you come to the conclusion you did? it's a massive cope

[@marocat4749]

I mean he isnt happy, and its fake and was never real. But guess thats on themovie to npt make clearer

[@Mysticmegster1]

@@azeemkhan1066 the simulation may be a dream world but the idealised version of relationships it protrays, is made to look more appealing than the real world. The film should have been clearer about its message.

[@azeemkhan1066]

@@Mysticmegster1 lmao you cant possibly be this dumb. this has to be a bit

[@oerthling]

Alice clearly isn't happy in the Dreamworld. And that she was miserable is something that Jack claims, but Jack is just justifying her enslavement. Yes, she was tired from work after doing long shifts, but she also clearly said that she loved her job. And it was clearly a more fulfilling life for her. It's Jack that was miserable. He's gaslighting her. Probably not even understanding that he does.

[@MrBuns-yi2hk]

People who misunderstood JP's feminine/masculine chaos/order are missing context. It goes in to the philosophy of yin and yang and the duality of life.

[@PeverellTheThird]

People who don't understand metaphor

[@teamhammerbros8466]

no you are clearly the one who doesn’t understand the metaphor. calling feminism chaos and masculinity order is about as fucking retarded as it gets. take a step back. realize what feminism is. is it chaos? no………. not even close.

[@Hemlocker]

I've noticed that people seem to reflexively assume that anyone's saying order=good, chaos=bad, and that therefore man=good, woman=bad. Actually, the very fact that someone has this reflexive assumption might say something about their own implicit beliefs.

[@teamhammerbros8466]

@@Hemlocker that’s the definition🤦‍♂️

[@Hemlocker]

​@@teamhammerbros8466 No, it isn't. Neither Peterson nor any dictionary I've checked says that the definitions are "order: good, chaos: bad". It would take you about 60 seconds to Google this.

[@Raktasdelespacio]

Loved this as usual! Not sure if this happened to other people, but your sweater seems to create sort of moiree effect on my screen. Glad to see a level headed critique of Peterson.

[@lionheart4424]

Amazing video Jared, I missed your content and I am happy to find you again in KZbin!

[@AdamDoster]

Jared hypothesized that our current problems are not due to feminism or incels, as the Peterson and Wilde arguments suggest, but rather due to economic uncertainty of this era. Does Jared further explain this position elsewhere? Is this relative to some other era with less economic uncertainty? My view is that there has been a gradual improvement throughout human history, so I’d be interested to hear a different perspective.

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

short answer: while overall poverty is extremely reduced globally since decades back, the gap between rich and poor is ever-expanding. plus, fascism is on the rise again in several countries incl USA.

[@rodrigocardona7807]

JARED!!!!! Welcome back bud

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

Can all channels in left-YT please start educating everyone about both the: (1) difference between right-authoritarian vs. right-libertarian; & (2) difference between left-authoritarian vs left-libertarian? It’s long overdue. People aren’t cattle or sheep: They will understand if we educate them. Though we need to educate (& learn) about all the nuance.

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

For example: Two different left YTers, Step Back & Anark, who both recently released videos on this topic, made horribly inaccurate videos on the subject. Just atrocious: They both expressed basically no interest in logic or empirical truth. We are in a deplorable state for left YT…

[@thomascheckie2394]

Listen kid there is a lot more to politics than just a simple XY axis designation of your beliefs. You need to get off reddit and instagram and start reading actual books

[@Lilliathi]

That's just one step better than the typical left vs right view. Our political stances are made up of many spectrums that interject at many different places. Left (cooperation/social responsibility) vs right (competition/personal responsibility). Progressive vs conservative. Authoritarian vs liberal. Environmentalist vs industrialist. Globalist vs nationalist. etc. The only reason people (especially Americans) keep lumping these all together into left vs right, is because of the two party "system". You're either blue or you're red. Most democratic countries however, have at least 3 parties, some have like 20. The voting system has to be changed to address this, but neither party will ever do that, because they don't want to invite competition.

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

@@user-wl2xl5hm7k i have 600 channels i sub to on youtube, no time to watch everything. can you debrief me on what SB and Anark did wrong?

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

@@transsexual_computer_faery Sure! Just go to the Anark video, Anarcho-Capitalism is Not Capitalism, and you’ll see my comment thread there. It explains everything thoroughly. And his response was not relevant- and did not address the info I stated. And he did not respond to my adequate criticism from there. Enjoy

[@Shinyshoesz]

Jared, from the bottom of my heart, thank you. Loved you over at Wisecrack and happy you showed up in my feed! The world has to move eventually to meet and question so much more critically than what our current spate of art and criticism is doing. We're often drawn into the allure of fractionating ourselves into categories that battle one another in a somewhat fictional internet space while leaving larger collective (and often much more physical and real) issues which need everyone's attention to the side. We can't do that forever. Thanks as always for the fair and insightful critiques ;)

[@whiteinge]

Small correction: Peterson didn't get emotional because _he_ was being villainized for standing up for the disenfranchised. He got emotional because the _disenfranchised_ were being villianized. (All the media coverage of that interview missed that nuance as well.) In the full interview he talked about himself being villianized with a laugh and an eyeroll -- he's used to that by now. He got emotional when talking and thinking about the disenfranchised people. This interview happened to be high-profile and clip-able, but he's had multiple, similar emotional responses in other interviews when talking about times when (usually) "disaffected young men" approach him after his public speeches to tell him how he's given them direction for the first time in their lives. He cares, deeply, about people and when he does get emotional it's often when he's thinking of individuals.

[@guest_informant]

This. 100%. As far as I can tell JBP has gone off the rails a bit recently but when he first came to public prominence his consistent message was one of empathy and _care_ in general for men in general and for young men in particular. The Guardian of all publications did a great video series interviewing people who had been positively affected by his work.

[@rlsxs4ever]

first, no. he gets emotional in lots of different instances, not only because "disaffected young men" are being "villanized". that, i suppose, is because he is a very unstable individual who seems reluctant in seeking the very help he believes he can offer to other people while simultaneously exposing himself with all those issues. second, only because said young men feel his advices are good does not guarantee they are good. they are mostly common sense, such as "clean your room", "have an active life", "walk with a straight posture". when he tries to go deeper, into topics such as causes to human suffering and how to alleviate them, he either talks pseudoscience, religious (christian) self-help or political right-wing fearmongering. and i don't believe he acutally cares for the people who look up to him. he may have convinced himself that he does, but i actually believe he likes the money more

[@daveSoupy]

@@guest_informant ever since he came back from his coma he hasn’t been the same. Really short and sharp with the people around him and his talks.

[@steven5054]

Nonsense. Peterson only cares about the "disenfranchised" men who revere him. If you happen to be part of a disenfranchised minority with whose politics don't agree with his reactionary right-wing politics then watch out. And his emotional outbursts when talking about those alienated men who revere him talk more to his narcissism and Messiah complex than any real care. This was the same guy who wanted to found his own church with himself as its figurehead remember?

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

@@rlsxs4ever "gets emotional [...] because he is a very unstable" Burned his bra just yesterday.

[@scientistsalarian480]

I agree with your point about our economic situation. But relatively we are richer and more prosperous than any outside have ever been. I understand that we should always strive to do better, but I believe lack of gratitude and modern excesses are just as much to blame.

[@simianinc]

Thanks - I really enjoyed this analysis

[@EinsamPibroch278]

Now I understand why Jared isn't at Wisecrack anymore, he's too level-headed for the SJW loons he left behind. There is none of the High Production Visual Graphics on display as it would be on Wisecrack, but Jared can still captivate us on his voice alone. He shares his Ideas with great profundity and intelligence, not with platitudes that we would already agree with.

[@MrExtraordinaire16]

OH MY GOD how did I just come across your channel today. I saw the tag line and I was imediately under the impression this was gonna be very pro or anti peterson. I wasn't expecting at all a balanced view point in this situation. No wonder, considering this is from the same guy who was able to make a fair assessment of God's not dead In wisecrack. Good job man 👏.

[@Lilliathi]

Fair and to the point, well done.

[@Vasiliosx2]

It may be that I don't understand because because I didn't see the movie and I missed something, but I don't get how Olivia Wilde is making the same mistakes as Peterson. Peterson is critiquing the state of society, where Wilde is critiquing his ideas. So, while it makes sense to evaluate Peterson's ideas in terms of systems and causal effects, it makes less sense to evaluate Wilde's work in such a way because the topic of critique lacks such insight.

[@Questionthis1]

9:51 “She doesn’t provide any context for why men feel this way” OH but she does, Jared. She uses Jack as a symbol for larger socioeconomic commentary, as characters tend to represent larger concepts that are bigger than one individual, giving that character traits that are common among groups of people, the character is a sociological representation not an isolated individual person. Frank for example is inspired by Peterson, but he’s NOT Peterson, he’s a personification of what ideas popularized by Peterson AND OTHERS would look like when manifested as a person. So Jack then represents the ideas that lead to a man engaging in harmful sexism from a place of positive intent. He’s the closest person to Alice, he wants a fulfilling sexual and social life with her at his SIDE, he wants to be a provider for a woman who provides for him. He’s failing to meet the image of masculinity that he is told by other incels he needs to be, and it makes him feel inadequate in his own life and his own ability to provide when his failure to hold a steady, good paying job means Alice has to be the bread winner to provide for both of them. He feels emasculated by her calling the shots and being the higher earner. What’s most powerful is the fact that he’s the last person Alice suspects of being behind the conspiracy. She trusts him enough to run to him when she discovers the truth, she tells him something is wrong and they need to leave together, to go be happy together someplace else, and when they get in the car he betrays that trust and it’s not easy for him. Wilde took a really thoughtful and nuanced approach to not fully demonize men and I think fairly represents the reasons why men who are sexist or privileged don’t see themselves as being that. She could’ve made Jack a way more petty and insecure person who is vindictive or chauvinistic but she didn’t - she nuanced him to make it clear he’s doing what he thinks is best for both of them, not being aware of the ways in which he was robbing Alice of her agency. This isn’t and individualistic decision, Jack himself represents the common male response to an institution designed by the philosophy of men like Frank The organizational institution is represented by the environment of both the dimly lit and dank real world in contrast to the clean and “unchaotic” environment of the simulation itself. These environments sub-textually communicate everything we need to know about the institutions that exist vs the ideal institutions uncles want to see. The argument that she didn’t do enough to show WHY Jack wasn’t as empowered as Alice in the real world aren’t relevant because it’s not Jack’s movie, it’s Alice’s. Jack’s movie already exists in other forms across pop culture, this isn’t a movie where that needs to be explored because it’s not really men’s “moment.” Saying that the larger organizational structure that made Jack this way isn’t accounted for is the philosophical equivalent of saying “all lives matter” at a Black Lives Matter rally. You’re critiquing Wilde based on what she didn’t explore in the film, not on the merits of what WAS.

[@daltonbedore8396]

great comment

[@VonJay]

Haven’t watched the movie, and I love Jared, but this sounds like a better interpretation if interpretation without watching is possible lol.

[@Baccanaso]

Afaik Peterson isn't out here telling men to kidnap women. He's just controlled opposition to stop men from lashing out at societal problems.

[@mcgullible5212]

Jack doesn't just fails to meet the image of masculinity protrayed by incel. He's a loser. He fails the image everyone would expect of a man. Everyone looking at him and his behaviour would think he's a failure. He's objectively a loser. Putting the blame on incels is such an easy cope out. He is an incel. Incels could not have popped out of thin air. Something made them and it could not have been other incels. This is what Jared is saying by it just stops at the bad guy(s), there's no exploration beyond.

[@cortster12]

I've actually never seen a movie that delves into "Jack's" movie. It's always shallow, and any time a man in something is shown as even slightly like an incel they're the villain, pathetic, or just an afterthought. I'd love to have some examples of movies that show the daily struggles of these kinds of men in an actual thought provoking way.

[@rebeccatrishel]

7:56 This isn't Peterson's position at all. He doesn't ignore structural equalities.

[@Hemlocker]

Yeah, the dude has probably written and spoken about the oppressive nature of facsistic structures more than most people who make this claim.

[@thomascheckie2394]

I have to say I only appreciate your content more since you left Wisecrack. Well done

[@buddermonger2000]

I'm still not on board with the whole "failings of capitalism," but I appreciate the analysis and that you actually went ahead and attempted to give a well-thought-out take instead of just the easy Peterson bashing. And I do like that you prefaced it with "the most hysteria-inducing" as I believe that's all I ever hear about if I hear any leftist critique rather than a whole rundown. And you didn't even give one, but you looked at it honestly instead of just the worst extreme of the idea. It's starting to look like my command of the English language is failing, but I'm actively picking up a second language, so that might be part of it for a while until I'm better with them. TL;DR Same old Jared, we love you.

[@angrychair5864]

Breath of fresh air to hear ponderate people regarding jordan peterson. Keep up with the great content

[@dhayes907]

Its great to hear somebody who is familiar with peterson be critical of him while not misrepresenting him. I wish more people could be critical of people they disagree with without taking it to an emotional place.

[@igormorais4192]

You're an extraordinarily clear thinker. subscribed

[@6ixpoint5ive]

Man, Jared, I miss you in Wisecrack SO MUCH! That channel has gone down hill since you left. Your points are consistently more balanced, researched, and thought out,; you're able to understand different perspectives as well as criticize them, without belittlement or mud slinging, and you understand your own flaws within an argument and where we could ALL learn a little more. I try Wisecrack every so often, and they're not bad mind you, but they feel more and more like budget VICE than anything on the level of what they used to be when you were there. Michael's a good guy, and I don't doubt he's trying, but it doesn't have the same richness that it did when you were there. Anywho, I'm thankful you're still going strong. Wishing you all the best - hope you're enjoying life in Finland!

[@armellebiampamba4257]

Small channel. Well-edited content. Balanced views. Subscribed.

[@musickfoto22]

Jared, you're such a bada$$! Thank you for these videos. I never feel talked down to or forced to think one way in your videos. Just the information and philosophical context of the media. Keep it up!!

[@TheRockStar04261999]

That was a fairly unbiased review, that's awesome, from one Jared to another thank you

[@alfonsoandresriosrobalino9511]

I missed this type of analysis. Thanks man!

[@juliojap6470]

Jared is live RIGHT NOW on twitch! Come ask him anything or just chat and hang out! The link to his twitch is on the description ❤️

[@Abadia86]

Jared! only you can deliver such insight in these confusing times! And so balanced in speech, Man thanks! For real, needed this ✌🏼

[@ZombieBobSponge]

fantastic analysis. Thanks for being nuanced!

[@kobiromano6115]

This is actually methodical, well crafted, intelligent and deep. How rare!

[@averagejoeshmodudeguy4467]

So good to see Jared again, it's been to long

[@Droppman]

Jared, you’ve done it again!!

[@Buckwheat0]

Bro this is such a good and fair analysis, it's such a breath of fresh air. Can't wait to see how this channel grows

[@michaelmaage]

An always great and insightful video. I'll go check your colab review of Full Metal Jacket out

[@LR-zz9sf]

Since movie is boring and shallow, this was the only way for Wilde to market a movie and get people curious enough to check it. This is how nowadays Hollywood sells products.

[@daltonbedore8396]

thats a good point. "jordan peterson" as a buzzword

[@feebleking21]

Although I quite like Jordan Peterson myself, this is the best critique of his ideas that I have seen.

[@jasonbelstone3427]

Peterson: Its feminism! Wilde: Its toxic men! Jared Bauer: Guys, guys, you're missing the real problem; We're all broke-ass ni-

[@georgegach7]

Excellent thought-provoking commentary

[@themasstermwahahahah]

Man this is so much better than the current stuff that Wisecrack is putting out. Getting some actual nuance and analysis of different positions and coming to a synthesis at the end, instead of just engaging with an extreme/conventional view and beating a dead horse.

[@NaqibSyahmi]

Clean your room can be a good approach but can also be dangerous. All religions have this 'change yourself first' approach and in the end they'll turn into a Cultus

[@sanket.solanke]

Can you elaborate how "clean your room" , "get you sht together" or "change yourself first" can be dangerous??? I'd argue not doing those things is certainly dangerous.

[@implokusmaximus]

Jordan Peterson is the reason I own a home. I'm so lucky to come across one of these videos that talks about responsibility. Thank you, Jordan Peterson. And thank you Jared for this videos

[@Ninjaananas]

Could you not have asked your parents to teach you about responsibility? You do not need a far right-wing grifter for that. Have some self-respect.

[@Hemlocker]

​@@Ninjaananas That's not how developing brains work. As children and teenagers, we don't think to ourselves, "my parents aren't teaching me about responsibility, let me ask them about it". If we aren't taught something by our parents, or we don't have any, then not only are we not taught about it, but we're not taught to even think about it in the first place. It's unreasonable and frankly disrespectful to tell people to just "have some self-respect" out of thin air. Many people don't have that luxury.

[@Ninjaananas]

@@Hemlocker There is straight up no excuse to take this schizophrenic drug addict as your guru. Take any other celebrity and they are very likely a better role model. Peterson just panders people to manipulate them.

[@Hemlocker]

​@@Ninjaananas I just don't agree that "taking __ as your guru" is something that people consciously choose. A lot of young men come across someone like Peterson and are drawn in because they haven't come across anyone else (whether at home or in the media) to fill that gap. The alternative is not to tell people "just don't be brainwashed bro", but rather to: a) openly explain why they're a bad role model; b) provide better alternative role models. Then again, maybe you're not actually trying to enact change in the world, and are just venting frustration. Which is understandable. Either way, have a good 2023.

[@Ninjaananas]

@@Hemlocker It is true that they are drawn in by him. He is a grifter, after all. Drawing people in to manipulate them is his goal. But self-reflexion is a moral duty of anyone capable of it. A little bit of critical thought should make you realize that cleaning your room is common sense. That is exactly why we must speak up against Peterson. I am here to show that he is a bad role model. And we cannot trust American education to warn people against people like Peterson because the dominant parties want people to be exactly as they are right now. Disorientated and manipulatable.

[@dylanclark9903]

Jared- ur so smart and awesome- love ur content (even though I spaced a solid few minutes seeing which people on your portrait wall I recognized)

[@cameronmitchell8180]

Amazing content

[@jackmistiff5300]

Happy new year Jared! Always makes me smile to see a new video!

[@Mr_Case_Time]

Regarding that quote about the end of capitalism- the natural inclination to gather resources is a holdover from relatively recent evolutionary stages. If you you can end that instinct, you can end capitalism.

[@juliojap6470]

Jared is live on twitch RIGHT NOW. Come chat with him. Link in the description ❤️

[@LokiBeckonswow]

always great to hear your thoughts on all modern situations Jared, big fan of your work dude 🙌

[@hinnakoto]

thank you for the levelheaded and deeper looking into this, i feel like this movie has generated a lot of conversation/analysis but a lot of it feels a bit facile

[@Skyhigh864]

Red Dead Redemption perfectly sums this up “they will just find another monster, they have too. To justify their wages”. I somewhat understand vilifying someone like Tate and Trump even if it’s lazy and just bad. But vilifying Jordan has never ever made sense to me but I guess it’s like J.K Rowling. One thing said all of sudden your evil.

[@teamhammerbros8466]

one thing said. can’t imagine a single statement that is sonatrocious you cannot take someone seriously about anything anymore? “i hate black people” “that nigger is retard” “i love hitler” “gay people should be burned at the cross” i could keep going. so now let’s apply this to Jk Rowling. “I am a terf” meaning she hates a particular group of people. it isnt much different than racism or homophobia. is it violent? no. but it is repulsive and ignorant.

[@alexandersolodovnikov4840]

Great work, a very nuanced take on the film. Special kudos for trying to correctly present Peterson's views even when they leave much to be desired. So many people on the left are trying to paint him as a monstrous right-winged Boogieman while in reality he is more of a very mediocre philosopher-psychologist who's way over his head.

[@nonono9194]

If he's very mediocre what does that make you

[@Wingedmagician]

Masterful psychologist (this is not just my opinion is borderline just factual if you look it up before his notoriety) mediocre everything else.

[@woobiefuntime]

He is smart but he is dangerous in a subtle Way .

[@Baccanaso]

@@woobiefuntime far from it. Actual dangerous people see him as a stooge to stop the pendulum from swinging to more extreme views.

[@gps9679]

This is probably the most honest yet correct depiction of J Peterson I've ever read

[@isabellaalvares3159]

11:47 and 13:58 are gold. Couldn’t have put it in better words

[@dvklaveren]

Without looking much into the movie itself, this critique does not appear to be very honest and it is ironically doing the same thing that the review is saying the 'Olivia Wilde' side of the culture war is doing; Giving a bad faith interpretation of a view the subject never claimed to hold. It also seems a lot like you're saying that the movie would be better if it made the men in the movie seem like unwilling victims of societal factors that makes ideologies like Peterson appealing. But that is, from your own review, just not something the movie is at all concerned about. I even think that if she had done so, you'd have a critique that would emphasize the importance of individual choice and claiming Olivia Wilde paints men with a broad brush. The movie is concerned about the horror of a single cult of men practicing a bad faith version of Peterson's teachings. Something the movie does not appear to be presenting as the norm, but a realistic individual choice. Why would any of the men have to be empathized with for being willing slavers? I haven't watched the movie, but it doesn't seem like the men in the movie are claimed to represent men or even lonely men, but rather a warning about what a specific group of lonely men could do. Not even necessarily those who follow Peterson, but a group of individuals who follow a Peterson-esque character who takes certain ideas to a new extreme. This critique seems to look for a movie in which the villain is society, but it is already established in the movie that society is a villain, but the solution that Jack comes to is abhorrent and victimhood by society does not absolve him. And as far as I know, Wilde never claimed that individual choice is more important. Just that an abhorrent, misguided individual choice in a societal context happens to be the thing that is examined in this movie. Whether Peterson should be held liable for bad faith readings is kind of irrelevant to the movie, it seems? So I don't know if that's something Wild or the movie can really be critiqued for. I'm rather disappointed with this review. EDIT: And before anyone says anything; I have at points confronted people for mocking men who tried to engage a romantic relationship with someone they didn't know was already in a relationship. Them saying it was pathetic and alarming when they had literally not done anything wrong yet. I am 100% sympathetic to the idea that lonely men are unneccesarily made into a boogeyman. Ironically, I think that the movie that Jared claims he wants to have seen is one in which Jack is a tragic figure for choosing to enslave his wife because of society, I guess. If anything, that would be an even more misandrist. I dunno, this review just seems really short-sighted to me. The counterfactual is the exact thing that Jared would criticize as typical of leftist Hollywood influence also.

[@daltonbedore8396]

im not sure i agree, since i also have not seen the movie. but this is the only comment with any pushback so i enjoyed reading it.

[@KatieBadenhorst]

Thank you and agree 100%

[@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl]

So you didn't watch the movie and yet you make claims as if you actually watched it

[@KatieBadenhorst]

@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl I mean I watched the movie and they didn't say anything I disagree with sooo... Also if you think they're wrong "you didn't watch the movie" isn't a good rebuttal.

[@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl]

@@KatieBadenhorst oh she is correct . If you give Olivia wilde a very charitable interpretation. She herself makes sure that she gives wilde best interpretation possible

[@ShawnWeeded510]

There's also his relationship to far right ideas in general. As a psychologist he's on point but his political "prescriptions" are purposefully vague seemingly out of an unwillingness to be held to anything he says.

[@teamhammerbros8466]

literally as a “psychologist” the man talks in too many subjects that has nothing to do with psychology.

[@1massboy]

11:41 - 12:06 Exactly Jared. Which is why I have so many problems with Jordan Peterson/economic libertarian types to begin with. Granted yes. We should always try to improve ourselves in our lives. But we should never ignore/avoid the systemic problems in our society.

[@artyomloukashov636]

"Clean up your room!" is the one the advices. Esprcially, as it was said in a context of a lecture on metal disorders. But that discourse is so sirreal it's mind boggling.

[@NahuelPavano]

Great video! In this time of the year, with family reunions, i had some heated discussions with my family over various subjects, it all comes down to left vs right, or our perceived notions of the left and right. I love this kind of analysis that i can show to the most right or left leaning member of my family. Sorry if there are mispellings, greetings from argentina from a big fan! (I would support you but Argentina)

[@alanhernandez1473]

I started watching wisecrack for a casuality but I continued because of you, when I watched your videos I recieve an invitation to share and to learn, I don’t want to compare but the with the new guy of wisecrack I felt like he’s saying to me “I am a philopher believe”, felt less like a place to learn an share. Because of that I’m grateful you have a new space.

[@kylegrey1071]

Solid critique. I will say however, I have met and heard of men who 100% romanticize the 50s out of a desire to have the women in their lives be more subservient to them as well as the more accepted racism of that era. Maybe if the movie explored the longing of lost privilege held by some men in the world today it would be a more successful social thriller.

[@DeLaSoul246]

Agreed. I have actually never once heard a conservative-leaning man romanticize the 50's specifically because of the low housing prices, job security, GI Bill, etc. They romanticize the "work ethic" of the "masculine men" and the role of women as housekeepers and mothers, which is what allows them to devote themselves fully to being "masculine men" in the first place. I don't see any conservative men out here advocating specifically for more accessible home loans and college education or better policies for job security. They advocate primarily for society being built up from its alleged atomic unit: the nuclear family, wherein women are financially dependent and subservient and thus "men can be men."

[@zorastin]

yeah sure you have kid. in the last 6 years quite a few women have acted like shitheads and need to do better and treat men better. men literally hold the world up and keep it running in many many ways that women dont. it has been disgraceful the way men have been treated and talked about in the media. i doubt those made up men you are talking about want a 50 s style women per se as they would really just like women to stop being so hostile. 99 percent of men have very little power. it is the ones at the top , the richest who have all the power that includes some very shitty women. the patriarchy is lie and most people know it so the left need to gets its shit together and treat men better. i have a degree in sociology and politics and am center left i have seen this unfold over the last 30 years as the left has made it beyond stupid for a man with any sense of pride and interest in their future. there is no longing for lost privilege, who told you that lol men were always disposable and still are. you really know nothing educate yourself about history and mean properly not this youutbe divisive rubbish where you clearly get your education. god you know we have big problems to solve in the world and dishonesty aint going to solve it.

[@williamjenkins4913]

Have you really or did you just interpret what they said in a hugely unfavorable way? If you say you did ok but most the time I find it is just bad faith interpretation when I hear claims like that.

[@unknownsword9042]

@@williamjenkins4913 This person can see inside people to know their true desires! They are like a superhero, and will save us all with their advanced morality.

[@helloneighbour2408]

bro thats like a small minority of people. If a lot of people thought that way, the world wouldn't be what it is

[@EmperorDxD]

I wonder why she changed the movie so much the original script the one I read was incredibly well done I was sure this was gonna be a hit