Is Kafatek's MC4 the Best Espresso Grinder?

[@michaelfabian3414]

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[@_Chev_Chelios]

Please compare the MC4 to the Lagom P100.

[@rlb2444]

Thank you for the review! I have owned my MC4 for around three months. I concur with all that you have said about it. The burrs are now broken in and it's even better. Essentially there is zero grinds retention. All I ever find when I clean the burrs are bits of chaff. The quality of the grinds that it produces is light, fluffy and easy to work with. Then, there is the consistent details that brings it all together producing a cup that you feel is extracting the flavors distinctly. I no longer use the conditioning tool but use one very short burst of distilled water from the spritzer. Michael you do an extraordinary job in presenting your opinions of the grinders that you test. No waste of time, directly to the point! Great job!

[@michaelfabian3414]

Thank you!

[@revolutiondance1141]

How many Pounds of coffee do you think you put through the MC4 to get it well seasoned??

[@javonazul]

Congratulations. Big bump in the quality of the video, becoming a fan.

[@michaelfabian3414]

Much appreciated! I should've stepped up the value long ago instead of insisting on shooting with my phone against a wall lol

[@sebastianbjoernestad]

Just wanted to say that you've really up'd your videos! Much better videography and also seem to be better structured. One of the best coffee channels ever! Thanks for making these interesting videos ;)

[@maetheechongchitnant810]

I've been following your channel because I think you are very knowledgeable and you are one of the few that put more focus on higher end gears, which I really love. And now I see that you've improved the production quality of your video quite a bit, which shows that you're getting serious about making videos, and that made me want to give you some of my constructive feedback. First, while I love the information that you're giving, many time I feel like a lot of it can be shortened or presented in a more interesting/entertaining way. Your videos are not long and packed full of information, but sometimes I feel like I'm just looking at your face while you talk for half the video. This video, for example, I didn't even get a good look at the grinder the whole video, which is a shame because I noticed that you put work into your lighting and setup good shots to see the burrs. I see so much potential in your channel, so please keep doing what you do and keep improving your videos. I'll be here watching 😊

[@benhuynchris]

Hi Michael, Thanks for the analysis on the MC4, great work you do. FYI: James Hoffman did this experiment on the Niche Zero that you might like to reference and try testing yourself to verify results if one bean (feed rate) vs steps in grind make a difference in a grinder. What James did was first make a very course grind through the Niche than adjusted the grind to fine for the final grind. This is not the workflow the majority of us who just wants espresso would want to do, but with the Niche experiment this might help verify your analysis with the final cup profiles to verify if there is a difference in multiple step grinding. Seems you both are seeing similar results that multiple step grind is the difference maker vs feed rate. I have not tried James Hoffman's method as I have a Niche. But I'm a newbie into espresso and still learning basics. But I would be interested to hear someone else on James level of knowledge and ability to try this. Hope you do a video on it and let us know your thoughts!

[@Janoeliop]

Best coffee channel in a while!

[@coffeeistheanswer5923]

Thank you Michael! Great video and awesome to see how you take time to answer all the detailed questions here in the chat.

[@Fedelia86]

Thank you for these very well educated and informative in-depth videos!

[@pablo-zn1mg]

You know, I thought I had reached the pinnacle of coffee/espresso youtube channels by watching James Hoffmann, Whole latte love, Seattle coffee gear and the like... but then you uncover a new, even higher level of 'niche' products, that aren't even sold by retailers and are out of stock all the time, and an audience that is interested in the upmost minute aspects of their espresso and are willing to pay thousands upon thousands to get a slightly different flavour profile. What a crazy world we live in. Interesting, but crazy.

[@ethiopianbuffman]

Why you got put this out there?!? I already picked up a mono flat and wanted to try the MC4 but was putting it off but now I may just have to get one. Thanks for emptying my wallet.

[@ssjcell]

videos keep getting better and better

[@jani80k]

hey @Michael Fabian . today I have been pulling shots all day with my bianca&niche combo. all types of roasts but with a twist. I preground all coffee using my comandante hangrinder on the almost coarsest setting. The clarity of the shots went up and also the bitterness I was getting from the niche on slight overextractions has gone down.

[@mexicanhalloween]

I hadn't heard about this grinder because everyone seems to only talk about the Monolith Flats, but this seems ideal for my taste. I have been using an Aergrind modified to use an electric drill to slowly grind very coarsely into my Sette 270 over about 45s and this seems to be the, uh, more refined version of that method. Thanks for the review.

[@michaelfabian3414]

Great idea!

[@georgel2093]

Lovely quality video. I and I'm sure many others would be interested in seeing a workflow video and how each part affects your end result.

[@davidhunternyc1]

I've been using my MC4 for three weeks now. The burrs are still breaking in. When I spritz the beans, once, before I grind the resulting fines are as fluffy as cloud, no clumps, and no WDT needed. It's a brilliantly engineered machine and an artistic wonder. With that said I also use a BPlus Apollo hand grinder with the fine adjustment mechanism. I love it just as much as my MC4. Go figure.

[@davidhunternyc1]

@Espresso Junky Thanks for your reply. The JE-Plus was my second choice of grinders behind the Apollo. Here's what I don't get. I grind 18 grams in 38 seconds. If the burrs are the same in the JE-Plus, how come it grinds 18 grams in 1 1/2 minutes? Something is very different. I don't get it.

[@zorqis]

So the challenge is whether a coarse grinding with conical burrs, followed by a fine grinding with large flat burrs makes similar differences as the optimally combined Kafatek, as described in the video. Well, I have only tried regrinding with the same conical burrs (manual Bplus Apollo, 48 mm Italmill conical burrs with whatever nanotech coating, blah). First with the most coarse setting, then the regular, already dialed in setting. My learning so far: - it does make a slight difference in the visual consistency of the ground coffee, before tamping: looks more homogeneous and fluffier, like a light snow, much like in the video; - it requires tighter tamping (using the same puck homogenization); I had to adjust my inhabited tamping routine; - it does seem to make a difference in taste, in the direction described in the video. So the effect seems to be there, even with this "low-end" imitation. But probably it's more accentuated with 2 separate grinders (conical + flat), and might be even more prominent with an optimized combination of grinders.. However, the question is how much more. For me the double grinding looks good enough compromise, so whenever I feel like, I can basically spare money with more time given into grinding :). Thanks for saving my wallet :).

[@gebruikersnaam1q2w3e]

Why am i looking at this, i cant afford this😅. Unfortunately still using the baratza encore... But what a video man, thumbs up. You are going to be the next big coffee channel. Mark my words.

[@Alanwunsch]

Incredible presentation of content!

[@FlavorTrends]

I believe its the speed and Torrance for the burr geometry, right speed may give you right uniformity for the right dial in from the roaster level, just like using a saw board cutting on sponge and wood

[@bwed4442]

Michael, I'm considering ordering the latest Monolith Conical. I make espresso almost exclusively. I like dark roast coffee with chocolatey, caramel, earthy flavors and a moderate to heavy mouthfeel. Is this grinder going to be good for me? Or what single dose grinder would you recommend for me?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I think the Flow control disc on the niche doesn't really slow flow enough to really have a dramatic impact, Hoffman and others have done an experiment where you slowly feed a grinder bean by bean and it ends up affecting the grind consistency and size (I forget if it ends up being coarser or finer).

[@augustinecabrera121]

For espresso milk drinks (medium/dark roasts)… MC4 or Versalab M4 ??

[@ShikhaPrasadCraft]

HI Michael, Happy to see the subscriber family growing for you. Love how you say the things as honestly and straightforwardly as possible. That Slo-mo pour was a good touch!! :D I am also planning to put some effort to start on my KZbin channel, but getting confused with all the options to video edit out there. May I know what application you use for the same? Thanks!

[@michaelfabian3414]

Hi Shikha! Thank you! I recently moved to Premiere Pro from.... iMovie on my phone lol

[@itamarkas]

Great review! Keep rocking!

[@stavroskypraios2014]

You can check also Flair 58 Puck Screen for keeping your shower clean and maybe extra advantages if it has some...

[@nickvasilopoulos4512]

Great content as usual. Wondering if you have spent any time with the Bentwood 63 and what you think of the espresso compared to the MC4. 👏🏻

[@julien5985]

Very interesting video! Sounds like a more uniform conical, which sounds delicious. At some point you mention extraction %...did you make some measurements?

[@DS__112]

I'm so curious about the more detailed comparison with versalab M4, which can also be seen as the representative image of hybrid burrs. I usually use light roasted beans and now I have M4. I wonder how it will be different in espresso&filter. In terms of taste or flavor expression.

[@rpinarreta]

Is the MC4 quicker than the MAX. How long does it take to grind 15g or 20g?

[@taylorwhite3636]

I may try regrinding out and report back. I would use Commandante (very coarse grind, conical set) then into a k804 lab sweet, to espresso grind.

[@jimhand2734]

Nice slow-motion video!

[@JuliusSP1]

so, is this grinder good for sipping lighter blends/single origin espressos?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Do you find poking the coffee like you did towards the end is beneficial? I'd think it might lead to channeling, I do more of a swirling motion and slowly work my way up trying to keep things leveled.

[@mikflores]

Great description: “Filter coffee enhanced with gelatin.”

[@dariyz]

@Michael Fabian any chance you are planning on doing a direct comparison between the Kafatek MC4 and the Versalab M4 soon? I am looking to get my first grinder and only want to do it once and these are the two that are on my list. I was pretty much decided on the MC4 until I saw this video. Thanks.

[@evancourtis3539]

Been hearing alot of buzz about the DF64/solo/G-IOTA grinder, Seems like a single dose 64mm flat grinder out of china, do you have any plans to check it out?

[@RTOBarista]

I really learn from your videos, I started making espresso and pour overs as a new hoppy one year ago. At this time would you get the Kafatek MC5 or the Versalab m4? My ;preference is medium to light roast for espresso and medium to dark for milk drinks.

[@djembeboyzach]

I got confused with your comment. Were u saying it is gonna give you a thin or thick espresso. I am looking for a super thick shot and dislike the watery thin types. Is this the grinder for me

[@MrBPM75]

What do you recommend Monolith Conical or Flat or Flat Max for espresso with espresso beans roasted from scandanavian roasters like Koppi, Tim Windelboe, Drop, etc or Gardelli.

[@Rosini2222]

Really loving your videos. Any issues with popcorning and/or the grind taking forever? I watched a few other videos on this grinder. One video showed the grind taking forever. Another mentioned that they had to switch the burrs in order to stop popcorning.

[@michaelfabian3414]

I haven't had that experience

[@michaelbradley7208]

Nice bump in video quality

[@IlShamali]

Hello Michael, Just got mine how to clean the grinder? And is it better to put the beans while the grinder is ON or OFF ?

[@tingshanfrancisho7311]

hello, you mentioned that you want to back flush as infrequent as possible. Is that a reason? I saw that you use a Decent machine and the dirty water should go out through a dirty water path rather than 3 way solenoid valve.

[@perogeez]

Thoughts on how it performs for filter coffee?

[@michaelfabian3414]

Look for this in March. Haven't tested yet, but plan to

[@perogeez]

@@michaelfabian3414 thank you and like how you showed us your workflow

[@TheSaNiOnE]

@@michaelfabian3414 Hey, I think about getting MC4 manly for Espresso and sometimes for filter. Had you tested the MC4 for filter now? Thank you!

[@BillB33525]

Has anyone tied double or triple grinding on another grinder and comparing final grinds to the MC4?

[@seanlam1234]

May i ask which one will u choose for espresso, between mc4 and max? For espresso only. Thanks :D

[@benjaminzhang9396]

I've seen some reprts this kind of duel burr system producing less fines for filter grinds. I know you would prefer specific grinders for espresso/filter, but could you comment on this? Thx

[@brussell115]

Great video. Informative and funny. I do wonder if one could get a comparable result by grinding twice in the same conical, once very coarsely and then at an espresso fine level. (Maybe I’m just trying not to empty my wallet and upgrade my Niche 😅)

[@jpjay1584]

absolutely. if you start grinding very course and after normal it should have an advantage. Hoffmann did it as well. and thats the principle of roller grinders with multiple stages (and they are superior to burr grinders)

[@jules5350]

I have one coming in March/April batch and can't wait to compare/contrast it to my MAX. @Michael have you compared the two?

[@michaelfabian3414]

Waiting on the shuriken burrs to arrive

[@jules5350]

@@michaelfabian3414 oooh! I have the one with the original low uniformity!! On the fence about getting the new ones!!!

[@michaelfabian3414]

@@jules5350 ah gotcha-- if forced to pick between this and the LU burrs, i'm picking MC4

[@jules5350]

@@michaelfabian3414 Wow, really!!! That is amazing to know. So you like the MC4 better than LU on the previous Max version!! Wow! And that is for the light roasted Nordic beans like La Cabra...I can't wait for you to compare the Shuriken burrs on the Max to MC4!!!

[@jules5350]

@@michaelfabian3414 thanks so much!!! This is really interesting!!

[@davidk5297]

Your skin is impeccable dude. What’s your routine?

[@lubenzz]

Love your channel and just subscribed. What do you think of the EG-1. Review maybe soon and compare with the Kafatek? 🙂☕️

[@michaelfabian3414]

Watch this space! Big developments!

[@Neuromy]

@@michaelfabian3414 I am also seriously considering EG1, monolith, and versalab devices. It would be great if there was a video that you compared a little more.

[@coffeeistheanswer5923]

Hey Michael, would you comment on the difference in taste between the MC4 and the Lab Sweet for espresso. I would be interested in filter taste differences between the 2 as well, but I understand that you are planning something in the future.

[@michaelfabian3414]

More context this week

[@gioiosa54]

The cimbali maxi or the Junior Hybrid ,,,both produced the type of cup you are describing ,,

[@michaelfabian3414]

Good ol DRM burrs

[@gioiosa54]

@@michaelfabian3414 everyone is talking hybrid burrs ,, not new ,, like I wrote Cimbali had them moons ago . I am really troubled these days ,,upgrading my machine ,, but really dont know what grinder to get , have a HG One and Mazzer Mini E with 64mm flat . I wish to replace my HG One with 83mm conical since riding light roasted beans is extremely difficult ,,any ideas??

[@Hillsons898]

Hi, what a great review, thank you! I’d love your opinion about this. I’m upgrading from a Baratza 270 and looking for a grinder that gives me good texture and clarity largely for medium roasted blends on the chocolate-ie side of the spectrum. Ie we don’t tend to like lighter roasted / floral roasts. Would you recommend this grinder for that profile given what you know? It seems awesome.

[@alexwintulich5941]

Did you end up getting a MC4 and if so how does it perform based on your comments above? I ask as I just ordered an MC4 and coming from a 270wi like yourself. 🙂

[@Hillsons898]

@@alexwintulich5941 hi, no I didn’t, I decided that I wanted to try Flat Burrs as we drink more Blends heavy on Chocolate, dark berry flavours. So I ended up going with the Option-O P64 which I really like. It’s very well made, very low retention etc and cheaper. Pretty good clarity, could do with a touch more sweetness I think. James Hoffman’s review was a good one. I would love to compare it someday, I suspect that the MC4 is totally different in the cup, maybe even more clarity etc.

[@Hillsons898]

Ps… its always personal, but I would recommend coming from the Baratza. I finally feel like I’ve got a grinder that’s worthy of the investment in my machine. I’m running a GS3.

[@dmrar4292]

Hi Michael. I was able to purchase an MC4 on their current pre order release. I only do Dark roasts and this is what Denis recommended over the Flat Max. What are your thoughts? Thank you in advance.

[@michaelfabian3414]

You made the right call!

[@dmrar4292]

@@michaelfabian3414 Thank you very much for the response. I'm very much looking forward to more content!

[@giratecgrinder5368]

wow nice

[@db7desertdweller]

Can you compare the noise levels between the KafaTek MC4 and the Versalab M4. Also durability and ease of cleaning between the two?

[@michaelfabian3414]

MC4 takes the cake on all three

[@db7desertdweller]

@@michaelfabian3414 Another question: Have you compared the Ceado E37sd to the MC4? I think I'm between the Versalab M4 and the Ceado as I hear the MC4 is not readily available.

[@slvrbach]

@@michaelfabian3414 I'm curious how the flavors compare between the MC4 and M4. How does the 2 step burrs from the MC4 compare to the DRM burrs from the M4 when it comes to different types of beans (light vs. medium vs. dark)? How do they compare in terms of astringency/clarity/brightness/etc.?

[@pchone]

Oblique Strategies...Anyone? Anyone?

[@michaelfabian3414]

I wondered if anyone would notice, the shot was intentional! Man you’ve made my day haha

[@pchone]

@@michaelfabian3414 I have a very worn out 1st edition- a gift from my late father- part of my daily ritual for many, many years. Currently conducting research in order to build my home espresso setup and looking forward to picking a card with my morning shots...Thanks for all of your helpful info. Hoping to get in on the next Monolith pre-order...

[@dariyz]

@@michaelfabian3414 any chance you are planning on doing a direct comparison between the Kafatek MC4 and the Versalab M4 soon? I am looking to get my first grinder and only want to do it once and these are the two that are on my list. I was pretty much decided on the MC4 until I saw this video. Thanks.

[@sdjohnston67]

Wow.

[@DaveT-cv9gp]

Best will always be opinion and nothing else. People should stop buying into the FOMO B.S. and just get a quality setup and focus on the main variable that makes all the difference... the damn COFFEE being used and not the pathetic toasted/underdeveloped garbage most roasters spew out.

[@georgepirpiris7309]

How can something be the best if it's not for sale to the "common" public? Sorry I am just bitter to get teased with this grinder that even if I am lucky and get it in first 30 seconds, then I can get it 12 months later. No thanks. Compak or Robur. At least they respect their potential customers. If Kafatek was serious they would take 100,% down payment and deliver when it's your turn. Just like every car company.

[@michaelfabian3414]

Food for thought!

[@robz9988]

You could be waiting 5 years then; maybe more. This way everyone has a chance. He just can't make enough and hasn't hiked the price to reflect that, allowing everyone to have a go.

[@veganpotterthevegan]

Like a robot, with less charisma...

[@stevebeschakis9775]

So ridiculous, so phony. I'm sure a blind taste study would disprove every claim made here.