Is Kazuya (or anyone else...) "Honest"!? | Tekken 8 Real Talk

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Let me hear your takes in the comments.
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[@The_Buff_Guy]

Coin flipping? Alright bro. Let’s break it down: -Kazuya requires 10x more execution to function as a character than anyone else in the game. -He needs a just frame attack to get a whiff punish, and the attack is also his most important tool in any given scenario. -he loses completely to SWL or SSL into block, which is an option select for his gameplan. Something very few characters have as their counter play. Having an option select that beats you is awful for your character. This, by definition, debunks your “coin flip” hypothesis. It’s not a coin flip if 1 thing covers all bases. -he lacks any type of useful string or poke to knowledge check opponents or get him out of a tight spot. -his heat burst has the worst range in the game. -he has the worst power crush in the game. -he requires movement to get out of jail, as he has zero panic buttons except when in heat with 1+4, which he can only use 3 times with a full heat bar. -everything he does out of waivu mixup is launch punishable in some regard, whether it’s on block or by stepping it due to it being very linear like ff3. Is kazuya strong? Absolutely. High damage, insane wall pressure, great keep out with electric, best punishment in the game. Is kazuya honest? The demand he requires from the player to function in a game full of killers is entirely up to the player themself. If you don’t know the entire roster on at least a surface level, you’re pretty much fucked. I’m Approaching Tekken god with kazuya, and I’ve been playing the character for 30 years. I highly recommend you spend some time with the character in ranked before critiquing them so inaccurately as if it’s the truth. You’re allowed to have an opinion, but don’t claim it to be the truth. Your opinion is not the truth.

[@anishsharma5738]

Bro tbh it's not worth wasting time with these guys

[@The_Buff_Guy]

@@anishsharma5738 I’d just like to hear a coherent argument that, for one, stays on topic and doesn’t jump around throughout the video to other characters. And two, provides some type of evidence that allows us to break down their arguments and critique everything. Rather than just “this is the truth, kaz is bull shit, am I right chat? See, my own chat agrees, I’m right!” Just low-brow content.

[@michakoguciuk497]

True, but I'd also mention db3, d1+2 and FC df3+4 (I think that was the input?, the -11 mid) as his other panic moves. Also, saying that ssl covers all his mix up options seems disengenous as he can do wavu into homing like ws2 or delay the timing, so then the mix up becomes even more layered. To be fair, the game gave him some more tools like db1,2 and f,f2, buffed d1+2 which make him easier and "more cheap". That said, still one of the hardest in the game, everyone in this game requires less fundamentals, I say that as a Bryan main.

[@The_Buff_Guy]

@@michakoguciuk497 I said SSL into block beats all his mixup options. Not SSL on its own. Db3 is his safest low, but it’s -1 on hit and does little damage. Doesn’t advance the game state at all, kazuya gives up his turn more or less, and all for a potential high crush read that they should’ve just done d1+2 to beat instead. Db3 isn’t worth mentioning. Fc df3+4 is a decent high crush move, but it’s slow and fuzzy guardable if you mix it with hell sweep. Again, not really worth mentioning. The only move most players do to high crush their opponent is d1+2. His only good “get outta jail free” move. But all it does is high crush. It does nothing to beat lows or mids or even throws on startup because it doesn’t crush for the first 5 active frames. If this content creator is going to say Bryan and Steve are honest, which I fully agree with, then they should say the same about kazuya and Devil jin. Those 4 characters demand far more from the player than any other character in the game, but for differing reasons. They’re all honest, and this guy provided zero addressable arguments for his case.

[@ChadTheThirdUK]

@@The_Buff_Guy I love this post so much I'm actually gonna pin it. Respectfully, your post embodies everything I was saying about Kazuya players 🤣 - relax homie, we're talking about fictional characters in a broken video game, not hashing out the details of a national constitution... Secondly, wait - Kazuya dies to sidewalk left Block!? Oh shit! For real? It's that easy!? Let me go tell Joka, JDCR, Doujin and all those other scrubs to just SWL, block. I bet they're gonna feel so dumb when they realize the mix-ups they struggled against at CEO were fake all along. Thanks for the heads-up 👍 Jokes aside, 80% of your post was confirming what I already said. He demands high execution to enact his Gameplan. Yep. We get it. No one said he was easy to use. No one said you could just pick up the character and wavedash to GoD, no one said your dick was little if you use the character. All I said, is that this idea Kazuya is playing some enlightened, galaxy brain version of Tekken is a meme. Kazuya is a scumbag like everyone else on the cast, y'all just have to work harder to engage scumbag mode.

[@praisemidir]

Average day of a Mishima player: Wake up, wavedash out of bed, say a quick prayer in front of the TMM shrine near the bed. Head over to the kitchen, eat a hopkick for breakfast. Proceed to boot up Tekken 7 and practice EWGF. For 11 hours. Go into ranked, see the other guy is using Nina, plug. Next opponent is Lee, plug. Next opponent is Bryan, plug. Next opponent is Devil jin. "Finally a honest character. I must show my superiority". Spam hellsweep in neutral, 1,1,2 to punish -90 moves. Win by using a df2 by accident. "That's enough Tekken for today". Time to get out of the house. Wavedash into the bathroom, put hair gel on to get the spikiest of hair. "Casual or formal?". End up putting on business pants and a leather jacket. Tuck the leather jacket into the pants. Rush out of the house, bumping into everyone on the way to his destination. When confronted by angry people pushed aside "Just sidestep, scrub" is the only answer. Get to the party. Stay in a dark angle, arms crossed. A girl approaches. "Wow you've got a really muscular left arm. Do you do much excercise?". Answer "Plenty". "Sure it's no steroids?". Angrily gawk at her, then say "This is reality". "What do you do for a living?". Think about it for 2 seconds, then reply "Execution and neutral". Confused, she walks away. "Can't even kbd, like all weak scrubby female characters. Pathetic". When someone comes over and points out "Nobody invited you", grab the nearest valuable good and say "Power is everything" while wavedashing out of the building. When held back and punched by the other patrons, plug out of the commotion. Alone, wavedashing in the streets amidst the darkness of night, get home. Once there, tweet a save-scummed Warrior rank screenshot to Arslan Ash, fruit of hard work and dedication and much EWGF training in practice mode. "I'm coming for you at EVO 2024". Backdash back to bed, sleep, repeat.

[@vladislavz1459]

no character in this game is honest, but a lot of characters are difficult, so the most difficult a character is to play at their core, they are considered more honest, which is why steve, lee and in this case kazuya is considered "honest" by the majority

[@Raijin_Thunder_God]

@@vladislavz1459 Agree I think no character in this game is honest but he is considered more honest than most characters

[@KGR_r]

You know joka was saying its possible to react to kazuya only on pc so coin flipping is true because tournaments are on ps5. Also honest is a matter of perspective and opinion people think what they think.

[@eproductions5115]

ive always felt like character honesty is a half argument with that being said, i do play yoshi so

[@michakoguciuk497]

True. It's funny because it's easy to tell which characters are cheap, but harder to define what's actually honest. Like, everybody will say Alisa or Eddy are cheap, but there is no consensus on who is honest. I play Bryan who's supposed to be this holy grail of honest fundamental tekken, but the more I play him the more I see people getting caught by the most random shit (not even talking about snake edge), like 3+4 on block into 3+4, orbital whiff into orbital, or just not knowing the random string I pull out (makes sense, half of them use same 4 animations but have different frames and can be cancelled). And don't get me started on the new 3+4,2 , the amount of people pressing after 3+4 getting clipped by the 2nd hit is staggering even when I play against blue / tekken king ranks. I'd say every character has cheap bs, just that some can use that cheese to a higher degree of success, overshadowing a need for fundamental play. That's why it's easy to point to the cheap ones, but there is a debate around the honest part of the roster.

[@alondjeckto]

​@michakoguciuk497 people getting hit by random shit is not character problem, because if someone blocks 3+4 and than walks into 3+4 while they are +13, it's not the character, it's skill issue

[@michakoguciuk497]

@@alondjeckto In a perfect world, sure. In reality nobody other than pros and full-time streamers has the time to lab every character. Character unfamiliarity in a game as bloated and complex as Tekken is always going to be a factor. Also, yeah they are +13, but due to pushback a lot of people try to dash in which puts them at a frame disadvantage and another 3+4 ch launches them. I've seen it happen to Tekken King players. Is it a skill issue? Yeah, but the amount of random bs in this game is unmanagable for the vast majority of players.

[@darkninja9499]

Saying this while playing asuka is insane

[@ChadTheThirdUK]

Why? Did anyone say Asuka was honest? That bitch is cheeeeeeeeeeeeap lol

[@darkninja9499]

@@ChadTheThirdUK LMFAOO

[@praisemidir]

More honest than kaz for sure

[@darkninja9499]

@@praisemidir THAT IS INCORRECT

[@praisemidir]

@@darkninja9499 nope

[@p-brane8251]

I'm not really sure what honest means to you. Maybe an honest character means one that doesn't break rules that every other character follows. I might call Asuka's RA dishonest. It doesn't follow the rules of any other rage art. Or take King's Throws, for example. Some of King's throws don't have animation tells, and your throw break skills don't matter with giant swing and 1+2 throw mixups. That being said its not really dishonest unless you are a new player. Maybe if you are new and you learn how to break throws, then you look at King and see that he is different from everyone else. You might think the game has lied to you, but once you learn that these characters break the rules, it becomes like any other mixup. Maybe dishonest moves are moves that have little to no counterplay. Moves like Lars den 3, homing plus on block with good range and forces a 50/50. There isn't any third option here, no sidestep no fuzzy guard or option select you just guess. I prefer talking about moves rather than characters because, generally, problems arise from certain moves being too strong. I actually think the game is in a great spot right now, though, considering it's still early days. Anyway respect to all Tekken players out there, so many people rag on others for playing characters they like. Don 't let that shit bother you. Every character has their strengths, and "OP dishonest shit," Just have fun playing what you like.

[@l14m16]

No way you call Bryan Steve honest but not kaz

[@tristanherb49]

kazuya is a walking casino bro lets be real

[@SnowflakeSSQ]

Yeah cuz those guys just definitely don't mix the f out of you using back sway or peekaboo which definitely don't require less risk and work than dashing into your opponent's face while breaking your fingers.

[@Ryusei314]

22:56 the timing of you saying that while Ling rolls her eyes in the idle animation is CRAAAAAZY🤣🤣🤣🤣💀💀

[@SnowflakeSSQ]

After seeing this comment section, Im just gonna stop playing Kaz. He's not honest, oh boy how wrong have I been! Time to pick up Asuka because she isnt casino and doesnt have a safe mid normal hit launcher and no WR mixups either.

[@oktanskioktan9372]

My only distinction about characters is: -not honest: Victor, Alisa, Raven 😂 -the rest 😂

[@razgriz2453]

Calling 50/50 mix-up characters "honest" are insane.

[@TheMetalInsideUsAll]

Kazuya... you know what his gameplan is the entire time... steve and bryan can mix up thier gameplan.. kazuya is honest in this fact alone...

[@kingenfuuken]

There is counterplay to it. Anyone complaining about Kazuya 50/50 doesnt know Tekken 8 is a 3d game. Literally just sidewalk left and you will beat 90% of Kazuya players online.

[@Rius9106]

​@@TheMetalInsideUsAllwho cares if your gameplan is built around 50/50 mixups? They still have to guess.

[@TheMetalInsideUsAll]

@Rius9106 its not 50/50 if you have a garenteed option to sidewalk option-select...

[@Rius9106]

@@TheMetalInsideUsAll you know how to counter that.

[@BlackJustice2637]

Nina player here. Trolling aside, I was shocked that you never mentioned her. We stay quiet, so she stays safe

[@KDBSPORTS_ENT]

Yea Nina is a problem 😆

[@praisemidir]

@@KDBSPORTS_ENT She is super fun so leave her be

[@blazaybla22]

I think what sets characters like Nina apart is just like me personally I love a good Nina mirror. It basically always feels like we’re teaching each other stuff That said idk if she’s “safe” in all respects, she might not be maligned by the community but I think she’s definitely seeing enough success that she’ll be getting more nerfs. Hopefully nothing too game changing and just tweaks like the db2 damage nerf

[@BlackJustice2637]

@blazaybla22 Yeah, I hope nothing too extreme happens as well. I agree on the nina mirror sentiment, btw. I always feel like the way I play is different from my opponent enough that I always take something away. They always rematch, too, it's great

[@clipCommander101]

Im not sure what the "official" definition of honest is in the fgc, but to me it means that the player is not relying on gimmicks or your unfamiliarity of the matchup to win. Ex: attacking out of turn because you know your opponent doesn't know the frames or how to deal with a certain situation. Or using gimmicky set ups that dont have intuitive counterplay(like the only way you would know how to deal with that situation is labbing). I think by that metric, kazuya has always been an honest character. You either block standing or crouching, and swl to beat the non homing options. I would say that kaz does have some dishonest options this time around in his db1,2 launch at the wall, masku tech, heat db 1+2 after heavens door and heat cd3. But the wavu mixup is honest i believe.

[@AngeloGene]

What does it mean to be honest?

[@nohat1375]

Whatever you want it to mean

[@RobotickGames]

Why do you view Leo as dishonest? Not disagreeing just curious 😊

[@truesuce]

from what ive seen besides the just straight up wrong opinions abt hwo being bottom 2 most people that are saying to buff him are just memeing cause of how many other characters got buffed because of their complaints LMAO

[@zackariahp1873]

As a Nina player I have one thing to say:

[@praisemidir]

Lmfao

[@blitheixgaming1289]

I don't think "honest" is the appropriate word for Kazuya, imo it would be "respectable"; no gimmicks, no panic tools, meh mids, weak to sidesteps, and requires you to break ur hands to learn him. I'm a Lars and Yoshi main but when i tried Kaz n realised how much effort you needed to make him work kaz players gained my respect. This character requires DEDICATION, i respect all players but Kaz players get my respect to a higher degree.

[@TheBigEmstos]

That’s literally what honest means

[@Rius9106]

No gimmicks and meh mids???

[@SlaughterhouseJTV]

@@Rius9106Brother you don’t know what a gimmick is lol

[@Rius9106]

@@SlaughterhouseJTV wavedash, electric, hellsweep, lasers, all the goofy heat stuff and so on. Do you not recognize those as gimmicks?

[@KingOfDarknessAndEvil]

​@Rius9106 idk if I'd say electric and hellsweep are gimmicky. A safe high launcher and a punishable low. Pretty basic stuff

[@King0fS0RR0W9]

Thank you so much for saying this. I also hated when people say Kaz is "honest" when all it is, is a 50/50 simulator, and you sometimes feel dumb for guessing wrong.

[@geoffparsons1952]

I don't even hate Kazuyas 50/50; I hate his oki frustrating free damage. 😅

[@saviormonroe-lh7oh]

As a Feng player, I say make the switch. He's godly at EVERYTHING. Goofy shit, broken shit, honest shit, whatever you need he got. Do IT

[@thesyclemonte6571]

Ok but I don't want to play Feng

[@saviormonroe-lh7oh]

@@thesyclemonte6571 that comment wasn't for you fam. Who do you play now? I think everybody good so it doesn't matter. It's about who you like

[@DownBadDad-iz9mp]

*Does a hellsweep 3 times in a row.* OK the fourth must a low *Honest Mid incoming*

[@kingenfuuken]

Side. Walk. Left.

[@BruhMomentOCE]

Bro still hasn't realized it's a 3D game 😭

[@obadahthiccbutslicc5954]

@@kingenfuuken I mean to sidestep that mid kick you still need to have a hard read or a guess that it's coming before going for the sidestep. I could be mistaken though since I'm not sure if hellsweep loses to that too. But even then if that's the case, one of the main points of doing the wavedash is to reallign to prevent the side walk, I'm not sure if that's why it works at higher levels, but if sidewalking left really just kills the mixup so easily I really don't understand why we don't see it working like that at higher levels

[@DownBadDad-iz9mp]

@@BruhMomentOCE lol get wavued

[@DownBadDad-iz9mp]

@@kingenfuuken my brother in christ, I would CD cancel ws2 you so fast.

[@theanti-hypemonitor9079]

Framewhisperer likes this

[@Mathfury117]

If you main asuka/leo you dont have the rights to say nothing imo

[@ChadTheThirdUK]

Why? DId anyone say Leo or Asuka was honest? I Know I didn't...

[@Mathfury117]

@@ChadTheThirdUK saying that kazuya is not honest from a asuka/leo main is wild af imo

[@praisemidir]

@@Mathfury117 I am lee main and asuka is more honest than kaz

[@SnowflakeSSQ]

Nah bro Asuka is honest. It's not like she has safe normal hit launchers that are mids and WR mixups.

[@Kuukeksi]

Very based Kazuya rant ngl

[@xenified1969]

not at all? his good tools beside PEWGF is unsafe? if a character who's healthbar is literally a gamble because of him being unsafe im not really sure how he's not honest since he has to work harder than others

[@praisemidir]

@@xenified1969 U mean his safe on block mid launcher ?

[@anishsharma5738]

Bro delusional af

[@wyanecamerodollisen9677]

As a kazuya player I totally agree, kazuya is all about mastering gimicky movements and just frame inputs just to play a simple bread and butter play style. Execution is there but there's a reason why he's the most labbed and well known matchup to play against, his game plan is simple, all you have to do is just to guess the mix-up. Calling a 50/50 character honest is bonkers😅 Trust me I used to be one of those players who thought nobody else was honest except kazuya, I was dead wrong.

[@The_Buff_Guy]

It’s not about kazuya having a simple gameplan. It’s how you apply that simplistic gameplan that everything becomes difficult. I’m In gold ranks, and you’re not going to be able to apply your gameplan without mixing your timing and making small adjustments to your opponent’s timing mixups on the fly at that level unless you out think and out play your opponent. Getting the hard read into a back dash or sidestep electric whiff punish is where kazuya’s gameplan gets difficult. Eventually, because you’re a human and not a robot, you’re going to drop that electric whiff punish and it’ll cost you the round or the match. That’s not the case with other characters who can sidestep or back dash into df2 launch punish. No one is dropping df2’s. The kazuya player has to learn these “gimmicky movements” and just frame inputs for a long time, then they can begin applying that in their gameplan that EVERYONE knows the counter play to. They’re automatically fighting a losing battle at that point, and they have to think and just frame their way to victory. If you don’t consider that “honest” gameplay, what the fudge is your definition of “honest”?

[@allknighter5791]

@@The_Buff_GuyThe argument isn’t about whether Kazuya is fighting an uphill battle or whether it’s harder to play him due to his combos, it’s about the fact that at the end of the day no one character in Tekken is “honest”. At a certain point that’s why people play certain characters over others, yes even Kazuya players, because certain characters have different yet equally as advantageous certain strengths. The argument could be made that relative to other characters Kazuya is more “honest” (ie he requires more input from the player than others to achieve his victories) but the idea that any character in Tekken 8 is “honest” is truly something I disagree with, at least at the moment.

[@rstocker19]

As a kaz main, I agree with everything your saying. I think alot of the miscommunication comes from the term "honest" and what peope think that means. You describe your definition of honest at 4mins. I think other kaz players call him honest because some of these other new characters have even better mix ups and plus frames than kaz. So they feel their kaz is more "honest" than other characters. Think its just jealousy and frustration. 🤷‍♂️ idk just guessing. I agree with you tho. The Kaz gameplan is simple but hard to execute. Mix em up grind em up

[@SnowflakeSSQ]

Exactly. Everyone has easy stance transitions and Kaz doesn't. That makes him more honest than them but doesn't mean that his 50/50 isn't hard to deal with.

[@teamguapogames]

Your problem is that you're not using the same definition of honest as everyone else. I can tell in the first 2 minutes when you say "What's honest about a coinflip?". People have literally used coin-flips as a fair and honest way to decide who goes first in games and sports for centuries, if not longer. 50/50 is THE DEFINITION of honest. What makes a character dishonest is when they are tricky or have an unfair advantage over you, like a ranged character in a fighting game, or a character with jab super armor or something. You know what kazuya wants to do the whole time, he's not tricking you, and if you guess correctly you get your full combo on him. That's honest.

[@Moto_TZ]

😂😂😂

[@noth7ing]

A lot of salt I smell😂

[@TooSweaty7]

The match-up has been the same in every tekken 5. If people are still getting caught by a 50/50, it's a skill issue. It's like not knowing the ryu match up in sf.

[@NovaSeiken]

The idea that "SSL block beats all his options" is ridiculous, blatant downplaying: - Kazuya happens to have the best conservative chunky low poke in the game: *Kazuya db4.* Unless you are Lili who can sidewalk it, no other character can possibly step or walk it. It covers both sides for the general cast. 18 damage, +4~+5 hit, -12~-11 block, hits grounded. - Only a noob Kazuya will _always go for immediate timing options._ If a nearly-decent Kazuya player realizes you are SSL blocking to deny his df2/iWS2, he will *keep realigning through wave to set you off* and make every SSL block/SSL duck attempt *completely obsolete.* The moment he realigns through wave & wave block loops, it's free real estate for his HS. You would have to robotically time and keep looping your movement for every time he realigns on you, and that is simply unsustainable. The amount of downplay Kazuya players make and the overestimation of the _supposed complexity_ of his gameplan is downright laughable. Kazuya is literally the EASIEST Mishima to effectively implement his gameplan because it is a basic straightforward gameplan. You work according to his limitations (what he CAN'T do) and primarily focus on what he CAN do: Tekken movement to create whiffs and launch with electrics, be sharp on block punishment, get knockdowns with the best move in the game (Mishima Flash Punch), start wave 50/50 vortex, wreak as much havoc as you can, win round, rinse, repeat. He literally has _the most destructive and oppressive wakeup game in Tekken 8 by VERY far,_ particularly at the wall: dude puts you on the wall, he goes Burst and from there it's an arsenal of nukes that will either outright kill you or leave you bleeding to death *assuming you even survived* the barrage of nukes he will throw at you. Unlike DVJ, he doesn't even have to go greedy to deal damage: dude can pretty much go wave db4, being the best chunky conservative low in the game. Whereas DVJ wave d3 deals 12 damage -1 hit, Kazuya wave db4 deals 18 damage +4~+5. As a Jin player, when I play Kazuya, I literally shut out separate and distinct parts of my brain - advanced stance game, reactive game (Parry, Suigetsu Strike, CDS evasion) - and only focus on a single department: _basic Mishima fundamentals._ Move, create whiffs and launch with EWGF, be sharp on block punishment. The rest works out on its own. There is absolutely NOTHING complex about Kazuya if you are a decent Mishima player. He is actually the most unidimensional Mishima there is. The only thing that separates good Kazuyas from the *greatest* Kazuyas is _a more developed sense of timing,_ but the gameplan is always exactly the same for every single one of them. You people got a package of VERY SIGNIFICANT buffs to make this guy a powerhouse, to give him a greater combo consistency and to make his hard-hitting identity fully respected, and it seems it's *still not enough.* It's time to start to appreciate this character for what he is, not what he ISN'T.

[@praisemidir]

This was a great explanation . Liked upvoted

[@NovaSeiken]

@@praisemidir This doesn't stop here. I'll be producing a video to conclude this matter once and for all.

[@praisemidir]

@@NovaSeiken I will sub then nice

[@lsv47]

I BEEN SAYING THAT, ONG

[@burni988]

Love to hear the "no one is honest in this game" line. I've been thinking this for so long whenever I see people be like "x character is honest." Also you're extremely funny 🤣🤣

[@16bitktempo]

i cant even argue against this as a kazuya pseudo main rn lol. the 50/50 is hard to enforce but once the ball is rolling its rolling.

[@The_Buff_Guy]

Hey so pro tip for anti-devil jin: Sidestep right into duck beats THE ENTIRE character. I beat GoD Devil jin players doing this strat because the character isn’t equipped well enough to deal with that option select counter play. It’s up to the player entirely to beat that counter play. I also find it ironic that you’re discussing “honesty” in Tekken when your Main has df2+3, a high crushing counter hit launching low that’s only -12 and linear. Ridiculous panic move that Leo players at GoD are running away with.

[@rafu9248]

He himself said Leo/Asuka is cheap btw

[@CosmicVoid420]

Bruh everyone bitches too much about every character. Anyway the only honest characters that are honest is Kazuya, Bryan and Paul because DSPManSWE said so. Maksu.

[@JagerflyX]

Alright so we calling bryan that can do 113 damage on wall, no heat, no rage and no TJU honest while hes carrying you over the map and steve that has one of the fastest moves and characters like kazuya himself cant twinpiston or tsunami? Kazuyas vortex is just holding back as opponent. with the same logic you could argue that bryans DF3 is launchable and mix it up with UF4? I dont know all to much about steve so i'll shut my mouth about him. I'll call bryan honest if you call kaz honest. CEO was a really bad example just because the players literally put themselves in kazuyas vortex. In short, hes only dangerous when you let him be.

[@ramenmanflo]

calling df3 mixup is crazy

[@mrdeez....6294]

Honestly its crazy that kazuya players almost call every other character cheap and when someone tells them that they are also playing a cheap charcter they loss there shit lol, even world class players get vortexed

[@SlaughterhouseJTV]

You didn’t watch the tournament did you? Like not even a single match if that’s what you thought was only going on. Mind you we are talking about literally the best Kazuya player in the planet right now and you guys wanna act like this is something ANY Kaz player can do lmao.

[@josecorrea8839]

Claudio need to play Tekken of You wanna win, a Lot of SIDE step,and horming attack, but he don't have a fast low plus on hit, thorw Game suck, and no gimmick

[@ryantognerilaiber]

Agree

[@ragnarok7452]

Steve isn't honest either.

[@RandomPerson28337]

You right he is trash bottom 10.

[@ragnarok7452]

@@RandomPerson28337 Highly doubt it. Considering Steve players usually downplay him if he is not a top tier character.

[@JojimboFeenix]

Honestly, why can't people just enjoy playing their favorite characters without having to argue about honesty and downplay their own mains? There are zero completely honest characters in this game, period. Even Jack, who was thought to be very honest in t7 has a bunch of cheesy stuff now. Just enjoy the game in your own way damnit.😂

[@ChadTheThirdUK]

It's all love dude. This game is frustrating (No matter who you main) - It's fun to talk shit about rival sports teams 😂

[@nohat1375]

Finally someone said it

[@chaosvii4605]

The honesty comes from the guess tho, so you are capping. It isn’t just a guess on the opponents part, it’s implanting expectations in your opponent in order for them to make the wrong guesses. Watch breakdowns of Joka watching his set against Keisuke, he said he’s never played anyone with mind games like his. If it’s literally just a coin toss like you said, how could Joka feel like he’s never played anyone like that? The honesty of Kaz is; I am going to rock you with a mid or a low, and we BOTH know it, and you know how to punish it because everyone does. With perfect execution, Kaz can punish your mistakes. The honesty of Kaz is that he commits to one or the other fully, you live or die by it. There’s no funny business or knowledge checks to rely on, it’s just an honest 50/50 and his only tools are to make you guess wrong. Sounds like you arent guessing right lol

[@allknighter5791]

100% if Kazuya was a completely honest character like people claim he is then there would realistically be no reason to play him over anyone else. Every character has unique, unfair and dishonest strengths, and in my opinion that’s entirely the fun of fighting games.

[@unseenblade8291]

100% faxxxxx

[@Edicted.]

Kazuya wirh a neutral skip cannot be honest, period.

[@tonyelectionfraud669]

cope

[@felipintao]

Kazuya 50/50 isn't hard to deal with, if you step to the left you beat most of his options (including Demon Paw), and you can duck comfortably because ff3 is easily fuzzy guardable. He's honest because he dosen't have evasive bullshit, easy plus frames, easy rushdown, knowlodge checks, cheesy setups and stance pressure, you can argue that Patricide Fist is kinda cheap, but remember, it doesn't have any tracking whatsoever, his 50/50 used to be stronger because now you can recover half of the life you lost do a Hellsweep using heat. Compared to the rest of the cast he's honest af, if you got bodied by any Kazuya at any level it's because they earned it or you played it super wrong, Kazuya IS NOT able to carry you in any rank whatsoever, almost every character in the cast is able to do it, Kazuya don't. That beeing said, he's far from weak, he's actually a really solid character i acknowlodge it, but there's a abyss of "cheese" regarding those characters, i completely disagree.

[@WaspGenocide]

"'Honest' is whichever character I play" and all that. The only reason Kaz is considered honest is because his mains keep repeating it until it becomes 'accepted knowledge'. I love Kazuya as a character, but he is so annoying haha.

[@Marval69]

Just SSL lmao

[@kato093]

Honest is a character that plays fundamentals Tekken. No gimmicks, no crushing everything, no ridiculous frames, no spam, no bs, clear and very obvious weaknesses. Characters like Lee, Kazuya, Bryan, Claudio, Dragunov etc... Examples of characters that are the opposite of honest: Alisa, xioayu, yoshimitsu, whoreang, Kuma/panda etc...

[@xXsoulless13Xx]

​@@kato093lee and dragunov "honest" insane.

[@WaspGenocide]

@@kato093 OK

[@HoS008]

@@kato093 You were right until I saw "DRAGONUV"

[@ardidsonriente2223]

The very concept of "honest" characters is stupid and failed from the start. It is one of the most useless arguments in the whole FGC.

[@allknighter5791]

Precisely, if Kazuya had no advantages and no actual way to turn the tables in his favor there would simply be next to no Kazuya players. The differences in our characters strengths and weaknesses are what make the FGC interesting.

[@tabkg5802]

@@ardidsonriente2223 well I would say that pure shoto characters like Ryu are indeed honest

[@noxxian]

​@@allknighter5791 Who do you play? It's always alisas and zafinas saying things like: "all characters are equal, it's all about the skill etc". Did you ever try to take kazuya even in lab and do the things that kazuya players do casually in every match? I suppose not, else you wouldn't have written this delusional comment. People play kazuya not because of his strength but because of how cool he is as a character, it's a concept alien to waifu players like yourself that only care about cheap wins

[@allknighter5791]

@@noxxian Lmao is this trolling?

[@23NCRN]

To me this patch really made him to easy to use

[@KoufalKoufax]

you got no right to yap here when your highest rank characters are asuka and leo LOL GTFO

[@kaysonlee1031]

I agree Dj is pretty bullshit sometimes. I love playing Dj but its funny how u can get away with cheesy shit with deamon spear.

[@tabkg5802]

It's so weird how a character based on nothing but gambling is considered "honest" with knowledge from other fighting games. "He has no panic buttons" yes he does have a mid powercrush, backsway heat laucnher, high crushing lows (as well as 1 launcher) and a ~~12f mid launcher into 100+ dmg~~(df2 is i14 🤡🤡🤡). The only Tekken character closest to having "no panic buttons" is someone like T7 Jin, but even he had dumb shit

[@felipintao]

You clearly know nothing about Kazuya moves or even JIn. Jin have a 15i low/high crushing hopkick, uf2, ZEN 1+2 and son on... Kazuya don't have any panic button, the closest thing he does have is d1+2 which is pretty good and truly the one and only "good" high crushing low (there are only 2 high crushing lows), but easily sidestepable. His "backsway" move is horrible, literally nobody uses it because it's startup is garbage such as every move you referenced. And tell me about this 12f mid launcher into 100dmg because i'm curious about...

[@felipintao]

And Kazuya is not about "gambling", you've described Lars. Kazuya has to commit in order to his vortex be implemented, he was always about high commitment, a character that has so much more to lose just for one block can't be considered "gambling gameplay".

[@ragnarok7452]

T7 wise it would be Kazumi. T7 Jin still had F4 cheese.

[@tabkg5802]

@@felipintao "You clearly know nothing about Jin"🤓🤓🤓 Lol his hopkick is bottom 1 in range and doesn't crush anything except lows. Furthermore it's extremely unreliable on - frames, meaning its barely usable to disrespect pressure (you know the main use of panic buttons) Uf2 shares the same problems except it only crushes 2.5 highs + moves that don't track to the right Zen 1+2 is great against highs, except for the part where it has to be used AFTER the transition into zen which doesn't have crush frames on startup Yes he does lmao. Having a power crush automatically debunks anything you said Lol panic button doesn't need to track. Also a crushing CH low launcher isn't just "good" B1+2 is good, if you can't hit it you have a skill issue Df2 is right there buddy Edit: it's not, it's 14f

[@tabkg5802]

@@felipintao yes he can. Bring punishable doesn't stop him from being a slot machine. Also don't even try to compare Lars's oki to Kazuya's bruh 💀💀💀💀

[@tacitozetticci9308]

He's honest lol. With his 50/50 he's dealing chunky damage into super strong oki, but if you duck/sidewalk that thing, he dies. You know the deal, you know the stakes. There's never a single moment in a Kazuya matchup where you don't know what's going on. In one word: honest.

[@Raijin_Thunder_God]

I've been saying is from the beginning.No character in this game is honest Definitely not no damn kaz

[@noxxian]

Who do you play? It's always alisas and zafinas saying things like: "no character is honest, it's all about the player skill etc". Oh, wait you literally play zafina hahahah. Do you realise that you are the most carried player there is? Evidence with online winrates proves that, you are playing super gimmicky character with weird stances that is super rare so no one except pro players knows the match up and you say stuff like no character is honest? You just try to validate your wins to yourself, but deep down you know that you are carried by your character, so you try to make every character as dishonest as yours to cope with that fact

[@Raijin_Thunder_God]

@@noxxian dude what are you talking about that doesn't change the fact that no character on this game is honest so I don't get what are you whining about Hell sweet honest no bull shit ass electric honest Man has a 13 frame low launcher.That's insand he has that bullshit ass mid only 12f Brain dead ass 44 No character on is game is honest And I don't care about zafina being honest she always my favorite character since t6 When she was lyrically the weakest character ever I can admit that my character aint honest.I don't care

[@Raijin_Thunder_God]

@@noxxian Honest character don't have hell Sweeps and electrics That's plus 5 on block and it launched you.That doesn't sound very honest In a thirteen frame launching from crouch and a brain dead 44 2 Again nobody on this game is honest I know zafina Is cheap and dishonest idc She's always been my main since t6 Every character in this game has some b s about them

[@alondjeckto]

​​@@Raijin_Thunder_God learn how to write before calling character dishonest lmao

[@Raijin_Thunder_God]

@@alondjeckto kaz still dishonest

[@Mamamouchi69]

Thx bro i always say that kazuya is broken if you know how to play him... I play Bryan and kick the shit out of my friends who play kazuya and they says my charater is cheaper than Kaz lol

[@praisemidir]

fr kaz downplayed asf i would argue lee is also honest because u can sidestep duck him all day (he is strong and has dishonest stuff just not t8 lvl imo)

[@DetrasDeTiImbecil]

Kazuya main here. In no world is a 50/50 vortex character "honest". He just doesn't have gimmicky strings, flowcharts and panic buttons like others. At his core, hes not a fair character at all.

[@kingenfuuken]

How is a 50/50 unfair when it by definition is a 50/50? Hellsweep gets blocked, launch. Mid gets stepped, launch. You can sidewalk left into duck and beat both options reliably unless they do some high execution shit (ws2 cancel). This is unfair? How?

[@SolusFather]

@@kingenfuukennot to mention every character in the game has 5050s. Not the kazuyas mains being brainwashed lmao

[@praisemidir]

@@kingenfuuken ws2 cancel is not hard. What is hard with kaz is movement into electric

[@l14m16]

In no world is kaz a true 50/50 if he can be option selected from the 50/50 with a ssl or swl effectively killing his 50/50

[@SolusFather]

@@praisemidir its hard, most people can't do it

[@my_pp_is_smolnuke_africa4920]

bro, you say "what is honest about coinflipping" when fighting games in general is pretty much just advanced rock paper scissors. What makes rps honest and 50/50s not?