Is Linux Too Much Like Windows?

[@TheLinuxCast]

Check out our merch! shop.thelinuxcast.org [time stamps] 00:00:00 Intro 00:01:04 Our Week in FOSS 00:01:19 Drew's Week in Linux 00:02:51 Matt's Week in FOSS 00:11:52 Is Linux Too Much Like Windows? 00:59:37 Nuggies of the Week 00:59:59 Drew's Nuggie 01:02:32 Matt's Nuggie 01:05:02 Contact Info and Goodbyes

[@xgui4-studios]

actually i will love that a plug and play linux distro that i can install like windows that will work on every hardware and software i use , and sadly for now the only os that have this is Windows or MacOS (but it is only for overpriced crapple machine) or chromeos who simply is way to basic for me and is spyware so ... for now Windows is the best option for me for now

[@gregcampwriter]

I was using LibreOffice years before I moved to Linux. LibreOffice looks exactly the way I want a word processor to look.

[@jakobw135]

You partially touched on the major issue of why more people don't use Linux: not just buying a particular LINUX BOX, which is compatible with the OS, but also not being able to run some COMMONLY USED SOFTWARE that most people would like!

[@paulj505]

I mean. Linux will not win, no matter what. But without being more like Windows, any low percent of chance to win, lowers practically to zero, as "normies" would not want to leave what they know, for something unknown.

[@xgui4-studios]

exactly being not like windows is what keep me away from linux :( like i dont want to learn a new IDE or install driver manually or even having to re-installed the os each upgrade !

[@eeaotly]

​@@xgui4-studiosI used to install drivers manually on Windows because it was necessary, so that wasn't anything new. On contrary, when I moved to Linux, I noticed that I no longer need to keep a list with all of the websites of my favourite programs (where I would go to download and install them), because I have all the apps at the distance of a click (or at the distance of a command line in the Terminal, if I was feeling brave enough). Plus, I got all of my email notifications and chat messages on the screen LONG before Windows copied these ideas. (By the way, One Cloud used to be Ubuntu1, also known as U1, on Ubuntu).

[@michaell.8748]

@@xgui4-studios what are you talking about? lol

[@donkey7921]

@@xgui4-studios when was the last time you used linux? 20 years ago?

[@derekday4832]

​@@xgui4-studiosI've been using Linux for 10 years and have never had to install a driver. Nor have I had to reinstall the distro I use - it's a rolling release distro (Manjaro). And no need to stop working when I apply an update - it runs in the background and doesn't lock me out with "please wait" messages. [When I used Windows this frequently forced me to work overnight and even miss deadlines] The desktop (KDE Plasma) is so much like Windows most people who see it don't realise it isn't Windows.

[@MaxxxJoker]

It doesn't matter that Linux looks like Windows. It is much more important that they are completely different inside and that the idea of the operating system is different. Why do we love Linux? Free software, no traking, customization, etc. That's what really matters.

[@derekday4832]

Not many people really care about the intricacies of how an OS works, just as they don't care about how a washing machine or car works. All most people care about is that it does work, that what they already know will continue to work (almost invariably Windows workflows and software). They don't want to face what, until recently, has been a long and difficult learning curve. One they already went through gradually as they grew up with Windows. Until recently Linux desktops weren't very good. They're getting better. The user base is increasing and as that continues more software developers will see value in supporting Linux. It's not 'there' yet - but it will be eventually.

[@derekday4832]

@@MaxxxJoker For me, free software is a welcome bonus. It wasn't what made me switch to Linux. My red lines were: Update process preventing me from working while updates were being applied. Updates that took so long to install that I was sometimes forced to work overnight to meet deadlines. A slow broadband connection probably didn't help and I had no options available to get a faster connection. Updates increasingly failing and trying again a few days later - sometimes multiple times. Advertising embedded in the OS. Increasing telemetry and stories (admittedly unproven) of data collection. It's difficult to say which was the final straw but I knew I had to find a better tool so started trying out Linux to see how it had evolved since I tried to use it (and failed) in the mid-90s. I was pleasantly surprised.

[@huljaxful]

Pop!_os literally has an option refresh os. What is even better option it will notify you if there is a newer image so you will getback to like 2 years old version of the system. The other thing is HP printers are known for compatibility with linux. I was pleasantly surprised with not only doing wireless printing but scanning too.

[@NatePick]

I know. I showed him later that Pop!_OS has that option built in. 🤣🤣

[@TheGroundScore]

best pick up line - I'm a file manager nerd

[@EasyGameEh]

i am a life long windows user and i've never used ms app store. in fact i hate linux stores too, discover i turn off, delete and block. now i either use opi or yast software that both are way more intuitive than zypper. however if i had a choice i'd prefer dnf dragora like store - one screen text based with flexible search and no bs. i guess yast is kind of the same thing, but dnf dragora is more minimal and less convoluted. other than that, kde out of the box is literally exact like windows. files are files, settings are settings, everything's the same. btw, in my years of windows usage i;ve had to do command line, so there's that too. ps: i can download and burn an iso and go through installation, but tinkering - no, i simply don't need it. i move my panel and start button to the upper right corner, but other than that i just need to do my stuff, be that fun or work, not wrestle with the os, i just don't care about it. you know, not getting in the way of the user is not a figure of speech, that's what the os should be doing.

[@JakeSwett]

One software barrier to entry for Linux - Outlook - is going to be a non-issue soon. Microsoft has already introduced "NEW Outlook" which is really just a PWA of the Outlook Web App. Once they decide to deprecate the old desktop version of Outlook, there will be no difference in the versions of Outlook available on Windows, Mac, or Linux.

[@wouterhenderickx6293]

I had this exact thought when I recently switched from windows to debian on my work machine. Turns out the "NEW outlook" isn't *just* a web wrapper. In the windows application you can add multiple accounts, while this is not possible at all in the actual web version. If you don't need this feature, I agree it's a pretty similar experience.

[@tutacat]

You had a kernel panic! Look at your logs.

[@apolopena]

Linux Mint gives you timeshift out of the box

[@Technopath47]

As much as I hate to say it, Ubuntu's current take on Gnome, with just how well integrated it is, is by FAR my favorite implementation of Gnome (and as much as I love Cosmic it's even better than that). I can replicate this on any desktop about 90% of the way there through the plugins which Ubuntu based their mods on, but it's just not as clean and well integrated. Unfortunately, it's on a distro which has a god awful bastardization of apt that redirects into snaps which, while I don't actually hate, I prefer flatpaks by a lot and no package manager should ever do something other than what I told it to do.

[@lyudvig_]

The only problem Linux has is that most PCs and laptops come with Windows. If, for example, Linux Mint has been shipped with laptops, most users will not bother changing it to Windows. I don’t think any regular user would have paid for Windows if they had a choice between a cheaper laptop with Linux and a more expensive laptop with licensed Windows.

[@geoffturner1487]

We want to download a file or program, double click, and it runs. We don't want to spend 2 days searching the internet for installation instructions for the file, as it is not a Flatpack, only to find the information is wrong, get it working, then spend the next day configuring it just because document scanner refuses to communicate with your scanner. Nobody has time for that.

[@Zaptosis]

As someone who primarly uses Windows & mostly everyone I know uses Windows as well, we NEVER use the Windows Store, I actually disabled mine using tools like Destroy Windows 10 Spying & O&O Shutup 10. The natural thing to do when getting software is to go to a website & download the exe file & I don't know anyone who differs from this. Now the funny thing is I use Linux (ZorinOS) on a few of my computers & I'll just go to the app store to download software there. Like VLC, Deluge, etc. I do prefer the model of getting it directly from the vendor as its more decentralized which is funny to say thats a perk on Windows but its nice thats the norm over there. I just want an OS thats essentially Windows 7 in the modern day, thats it, Windows 7 is still the height of desktop computing (I was around for XP too) but Windows 7 was just this refined stable operating system which just worked & wasn't bloated, not much spyware, etc. Most people I talk too feel the same way, we just want Windows 7 again. A PC first unbloated operating system with some nice 2000's new millennium aero design & thats convenient & user friendly to use yet capable.

[@Norbert011]

hi Garrett

[@RedSntDK]

I think the only thing I got from the windows store was eartrumpet and linux 😅

[@jakobw135]

One of the issues that many Linux experts and programmers don't understand about the typical computer user regarding routinely used programs like , the - FILE MANAGER - is that you don't have to think about any particularities or properties of this program. You just pick and choose a file open it up or close it save it - and that's it! This is how most people want to use a file manager!

[@jedipadawan7023]

Actually,I find the average user no longer knows about file management. They just use and save on 'Google.' I know plenty of laptop users who do not know how to delete a file and do not understand the concept of saving a file or creating a folder. We have the smartphone generation who expects their data to be on their smartphone or "it's on google." Havong said that, I have put Linux KDE on a number of old laptops that cannot run latest MacOS or Windows - and the users can run KDE and Dolphin easily. Once I show them.

[@jakobw135]

@@jedipadawan7023 I hear and I understand you, hopefully. 😉 But the point still is - the operations involved are simple and follow ordinary human language, unlike direct OS interactions with the terminal.

[@jedipadawan7023]

@@jakobw135 Well, yeah definitely. But we're back to the myth of everything on Linux is the command line. This myth that Linux = the terminal and typing commands for everything persist despite not having been true for at least 15 years. I use KDE. The default file manager- 'Dolphin' is both beyond easy to use and beyond powerful. Select file - select copy, go to destination folder - paste - just like Windows. Linux has GUI! It's not hard to use - swear! If Linux was really all about the terminal and was this techie OS I would not be using it, I swear. Indeed, I tried Linux when it was CLI only, or tried and gave up in disgust. I tried again five years later and was totally blown away by the difference. A lot of people, it seems, cannot get the idea that Linux HAS moved on.

[@jakobw135]

@@jedipadawan7023 Good and useful answer. Thanks mate!

[@jedipadawan7023]

@@jakobw135 Oh. OK. Great. Cheers.

[@magnificoas388]

Davinci Resolve (studio) + nvidia rtx + linux + kde should be flawless :)

[@jakobw135]

Your experience with DaVinci Resolve on Linux ,illustrates that a program has to be COMPLETELY COMPATIBLE with its OS, otherwise, there could be problems - correct?

[@jakobw135]

Interesting point about the Linux look of many of the apps - being dated and even primitive! WHY don't developers pay attention to this?

[@user-lx4lr1vs7m]

matt, i've been listening to talk about open suse so much i'm ready to try it. but first, can you use tiling window manager like qtile with it? I am currently on arco linux with qtile and chadwm installed and love it. and can you point me to the iso for whatever version of open suse you use? thank you, i love your channel

[@johanb.7869]

I prefer the Windows taskbar setup, although I disabled the Docklike plugin on MX Xfce. Window managers are not my thing. File manager I use now and then. Browser is what I use most.

[@Bruce.ItsYourPC]

No OEM is paying Microsoft $200 dollars for a Microsoft License. $10 to $20 dollars is more in line with what they pay for the license. That is negligible. Now consider the amount of support calls OEM's would get with a new operating system like Linux. Linux of course being a generic term. The issue lies in the fact that there is no standardization in Linux, there hundreds of distributions, numerous DE's. Then the different ways distributions set up and or change the DE's. It is a horror show for OEM's. Then of course the software issues. People start looking on the internet for software, download applications, and start clicking on stuff, getting angry because the software doesn't work. I could go on for hours. It's great we have all the choices we do. OEM's on the other hand don't want all those choices, they want one way to do something.

[@Leahi84]

I'm switching to Linux and I'm actually wanting it to NOT look like Windows. I want something different.

[@TheLinuxCast]

Gnome is a good option for that out of the box, but any Desktop can be made to look however you want.

[@Burgo361]

I think the issue is that linux makes people feel stupid, and nobody likes to feel that way especially when people tell them that it's easy to use. They are left in a position where they either have to call themself dumb or call linux dumb and most people are going to choose the latter and either way they aren't going to end up using it. Obviously I mean normal people nerds are just going to take it as a challenge and obsessively learn.

[@jmdennis1967]

For me this needs to be the other way around. We know that Windows has copied items from KDE and maybe even copied from Gnome but they do not have good ideas so why not copy from Linux which they do.

[@josephlh1690]

Microsoft copied over view screen and virtual desktops from gnome and no one complained on the side of windows 11 users. It goes to show that it is not a one way street.

[@IfritBoi]

There's good and bad influence from Windows that Linux is and was affected by, one of which involving methods to use telemetry and EULA for certain distros and DEs. There's so much of a monopoly involving Windows however that Linux adapting to the OS environment by replicating a decent chunk of Windows in certain ways is 100% justifiable and innovated a lot of things for both Linux and Windows. That being said, Linux itself is nowhere near like Windows even if they look similar. Lots of thing involving Linux gets worked around way differently from Windows and most Linux distros even give you the freedom to manipulate the code to the point of breaking and fixing it through just command lines alone. There are many Desktop Environments that work differently from Windows as well and they are very customizable. Windows is a built set that can't remove or replace anything without high risk to the system and Linux is like LEGOs that can be put together with pieces that fit well with the system you're using and can replace them with whatever you want or whatever's available. Just because Windows and Linux can feel and look the same doesn't mean they actually are the same

[@tutacat]

Most pqckage managers will install pqckage files. DNF lets you use any file URL if you like.

[@buntomat]

Windows is more stable than Linux sometimes. Shit happens.

[@derekday4832]

I can safely, accurately and honestly say that in my experience Linux has been a lot more stable and useable than Windows. Especially Windows 10 for the last few months I used it. Updates repeatedly failed after hogging the hardware all day, and BSODs were frequent. With Linux I run updates in the background. In 10 years I have seen 1 system panic - which I caused messing with a config file I didn't really know enough about at the time.

[@gregcampwriter]

I objected to Windows constantly for a variety of reasons, but as an operating system with a graphical user interface, it is conceptually a good idea for users who need computers as tools, rather than as the focus of their activity. Linux solves so many of the things that make Windows not suitable for requirements.

[@tutacat]

Window managers are just one part of your desktop. Most people want a deskrop environment because it works well together.

[@rc2276]

Video editing is time consuming, just use whatever software and operating system to get it done as fast and reliable as possible.

[@lian_drake]

5:38 why not Forgejo tho? it's what Codeberg is based on

[@rc2276]

Winutil by Chris titus makes windows so easy, software packages or tweaks. It makes windows much better.

[@RedSntDK]

More MX Linux propaganda, but I like that their default XFCE is a sleek sidepanel + conky on the desktop. With regards to Vivaldi, I think it's just trying to center the non-maximized windows. My maximized Vivaldi windows (one on each monitor) stay where they are, but the one regular window I have open, that always center itself. There's a forum thread about it and it seems to happen on OS X and Windows as well. In Windows I use PersistentWindows that shuffles windows back to their pre-sleep position automatically, but not sure what to do on linux.

[@rc2276]

On windows I use powershell winget to source packages and update. Easy peasy.

[@mikecondo]

13:00 Matt admits to being a homewrecker

[@lorensims4846]

Being Windows-like seems to be goal of so many distros, I assume to try to be more "user friendly." That's why I use Slackware Linux, the oldest and most Unix-like Linux distribution out there.

[@tutacat]

No, *Nix had app stores before even Mac OS.

[@creeperlv6668]

For the store part, probably because I used to have a much slower computer and have less stable network, but when the time I have no idea what command line to install packages, I tried Gnome Software Center, that was a few years ago, but it feels really s__ks, it pushed me to learn apt, dpkg (Because it became unresponsive while I am installing something, and I closed it or restarted my computer caused broken package installation). Those experience actually worse than Windows Store for me somehow. Thus, I currently only use command line to install packages on Linux (Debian, Arch, etc...). However, Microsoft Store (Current name) is my go-to place to do some quick install of some cool utilities and tools I need (python, kate, krita, etc...) on Windows. I even purchased gedit on Microsoft Store :P. By the way, I use Busybox on Windows as my daily shell now.

[@josephlh1690]

It has received many improvements since then. I know exactly how annoying it tended be. I am someone who has used both arch based and debian based distros. It has a better user interface than the discover store if you ask me. But that doesn't change the fact that Gnome is way too rudimentary.

[@user-in2cs1vp6o]

Vivaldi browser has issues on android. I wouldnt be surprised if the linux binary is just a bit whack

[@pip5528]

I haven't noticed anything.

[@user-in2cs1vp6o]

@@pip5528Lets say im on a website that lets you scroll through videos. You press play to make the video play. On vivaldi, if i scroll down and click play on of the video, its scrolls me back up and i lose my place on the website. Every time I click on a video. Its been a few months so it may be patched but it was really an unforgivable bug.

[@tutacat]

Windows and unix copied xerox parc. They have similar GUIs because they are a good design and people like them.

[@TechnoMinded-qp5in]

Linux Mint Cinnamon has become too much like Windows 10 and looks like it is trying to deprecate the terminal to make everything run like Windows if anyone wants a Windows 10 alternative I highly recommend Linux Mint Cinnamon!

[@bobbybologna3029]

That's the point....

[@Zaptosis]

I tried it & wasn't a big fan, I think Zorin does a much better job. I'm pretty sure under the hood Mint is a better OS, but I want it to look good. Linux Mint has more colorful icons which is nice but the rest of the UI just isn't it for me.

[@karsten1993]

You don't get new users without being easy to use/or are easy to break/easy to fix. Terminal usage is too much work for anyone who is a casual user. (or not wanted. I don't want it either) I'd say linux is not simple enough yet for most people. I want to easily donwload 1 file and install it with a double click. Thats it. All dependencies should be installed with it. Wasting hours fixing things with guides/videos through configs/terminal stuff. Yeah people will never do this on average. Also the linux market is just to fragmented for casual user. Casual user can't fix most things or even know the differences betweeen linux's let alone DE's. How shall they navigate all the different version if most don't even know if they should download the 32or64bit version. tldr: linux won't get a big market share in the privat sector without being simple (straight forward) to use/ not easily broken by system+app updates. You need 1-3 cleary distinct linux distros that are support from every major hard/software-developer. All the rest needs to be noise in my opinion. It is just too much for people that just don't care about techincal stuff.

[@huljaxful]

I see Mint as a windows 7 on steroids :) i don't know how you see it as a windows 10, in a bad way. They are really consistent with UI. They didn't experiment with the start menu. They don't push apps in it etc. yeah they have a new store in 22 but it's graphically almost the same as before. The weirdest part of windows 10 to me at least was the start menu. It was a complete turn off and i actually love new things to try.

[@xgui4-studios]

10000%%%% agree !

[@bobbybologna3029]

Comparing "Windows" against "Desktop Environments" will always be silly. Borderline pointless discussion. You're comparing a component to a Linux desktop to the entirety of the Windows operating system. That's r*t*rded.

[@IfritBoi]

fr

[@raughboy188]

One thing that is bothering linux users is mostly telemetry which fortunately we can opt in or out so as long as that's the case it's fine at least for me. We can deal with telemetry in other ways because linux is open source.

[@nodge9671]

i am completely fine with telemetry if it's anonymous data. i don't even care if they sell this data as long it doesn't threat my privacy. Like the fedora stuff: Why would i care about hardware telemetry? let them know which gpu and mobo i have as long they don't know who i am, 0 fucks given.

[@xgui4-studios]

not every distro ship telemetry rigth ?????? right ????

[@raughboy188]

@@xgui4-studios most don't ship with telemetry but those that do allow you to opt out so it's same thing.

[@xgui4-studios]

i use the ms store cause i play minecraft

[@Aoitori365]

I USE OPENSUSE