"Is Magic: the Gathering Violent?"

What does it mean for a game to be violent? Why do some media seem more violent than others? And what does that mean for players? In this episode of Search Your Library, we investigate the nature of violence in modern media through the lens of Magic: the Gathering.
Introduction 0:00 - 1:20
What makes media violent 1:20 - 7:30
Why we seek violent content 7:30 - 10:50
Consequences and Conclusions 10:50 - 14:25
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Search Your Library is a series of video essays exploring Magic: the Gathering from an academic perspective. It features summaries of historical literature and interviews with the next generation of scholars.
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[@user-fv1bt1kd2o]

The price is violent. We should take the card's price lower than half than now

[@thiccboicory9964]

Ya 10 bucks for land cards is stupid

[@Trisket]

​@@thiccboicory9964why? They're one of the most important aspects of the game, you can acquire basics for free, and like all things: the "better" they are, the more valuable they become.

[@jaceg810]

"Hedron alignment" Is a win condition themed about aligning he Hedrons. Their purpose in the story is to, once aligned, seal away eldrazi titans (eldrich universe devouring creatures of immense power). Thus the card hedron alignment, representing lining up the hedrons in all game zones to seal away any threat, is not necessarily a friendly way of winning.

[@searchyourlibrary]

That’s a fair interpretation, and probably correct given the context of BFZ. I assumed that it wasn’t something that was being done to your opponents, since it doesn’t use verbiage that your opponents lost the game (like in Door to Nothingness or The Millenium Calendar). The hedrons had been used to revive Ugin so I had guessed it implied some sort of ascension.

[@Jawzah]

LOL - 3:59 -- The "Parents strongly confused" label on WH40K is just perfect..Some of my Ork figurines mysteriously disappeared and I think my mother was behind that.. (It's decades ago - of course)..

[@searchyourlibrary]

Was hoping someone would catch that :)

[@Jawzah]

I think there was negative correlation between (war)gaming hobby and doing the military service in Finland (we do have a conscription army and majority of male population does go there) and there may be negative correlation between gaming and violent crime too.. WH40K does or did not portray military or war in very positive light.. Also gaming maybe gives a channel to violent impulses and may give more realistic and less glorifying picture of violence than other media and also things like RPGs generally offer other alernatives than violence to solve problems teach sovcial things and to think about ethics etc..

[@712u57N01]

I would argue that any skill-based adversarial game is violence, especially under the definition of the use of harm against another being. Magic, Dominion and Lorcana are all games where (normally) only one player can win, and (nominally) all players wish to win. Any action I take to increase my own position must therefore harm yours, and vice versa.

[@searchyourlibrary]

That’s a fair point- and I think that our (my) lack of acknowledgment of that probably does have to do with our culture’s celebration of non-physically-violent competiton (sports, games, businesses, etc) I do think there’s something that does distinguish the anguish of pain and loss, although I feel like I’m not enough of a poet to put into words.

[@MrTNT49]

I am in principle against watering down the meaning of the word violence. But of course, you do have a point

[@Dimitar_Tsanev]

I think violence in media has absolutely no causal connection to violence in real life and I myself am a person who would never resort to violence. That said, I think violence in media is perfectly fine because we as people are capable of understanding that what we're seeing is fake and doesn't (and shouldn't) have any effect on us and our actions. Therefore I feel like Magic would lose a fundamental part of its identity if violence was to be removed or even severely toned down because the depictions of violence in question are reflections of the game world with its multiversal conflicts, wars and cataclysms. There could be a world where a duel could represent something like a court battle or a sport but this already sounds like a different game altogether so I don't feel like that's a good direction to go in. There are plenty of other options for people who want a non-violent game .

[@alexandersilady4751]

There actually was a supplemental set, Battlebond, where mage duels were represented as a sport.

[@Pawg_Alf]

The solution is clear. the next 3 sets need to be set exclusively in Lorwyn

[@searchyourlibrary]

Manifesting 🙌🏾🙌🏾🙌🏾

[@caioalp5106]

Something that could be interesting to the topic is also the perception of violence in the mechanics of the game. You mentioned that the violence is extremely abstracted in damage systems, and what i'm about to comment is from my own perception so of course it's really subjective, but flinging a creature with my Ziatora deck for 30 damage at someones face feels a lot more violent than when i do the same ammount of damage from chaining spells in a storm deck. It makes wonder if and how do people perceive violence in game mechanics.

[@Cless012]

Me on seeing the title: It does have Gratuitous Violence

[@searchyourlibrary]

:)

[@schorltourmaline4521]

This idea that violence in media is somehow harmful or influential has always been eye rolling. It it affected us in any direct or tangible way, gamers would be slaughtering people in droves. The notion that someone who may already have violent tendencies might be attracted to themed in violence is far more credible, and they are always the exceptions, not the rule. Unless someone is already harboring thoughts of violence (which they will probably act on whether they play a game like Magic or not), there should be no worry if they will become violent through playing such games.

[@lanmarknetworking3034]

Violence is a physical or near-physical act. Depicting violent conflict, death and destruction in a card game is no different than a movie or video game a book, or heck even cosplay/reenactment! Pretend violence does not make people violent in real life... science showed use this decades ago!

[@clebertonmedeirosdebrito9517]

I’m feeling a bit lazy to write in English today, but wow, I have to say: your channel is a treasure! I’m at the end of the video and saw that you have only 475 subscribers, I’m happy to be one of them and I hope you grow more and more on the platform because your content is very good! Congratulations :)

[@searchyourlibrary]

That’s so kind of you to say, thank you!

[@rochareload3465]

Ta que nem a wizards com preguiça de traduzir as cartas pra ptbr.

[@Cherokie89]

It used to feel darker and more violent back when I started sometime around Torment. I kinda miss that darker, more adult vibe.

[@klopapierben]

"Magic isnt violent, discard is"

[@searchyourlibrary]

😂

[@teddyholthaus7618]

This was an interesting video! Good job.

[@aliceporter6239]

Just stumbled upon this channel and I can’t wait to see more 💖 hope you blow up and get the attention you deserve

[@felipelandi1766]

Hey we have already have a set with little to no violence in it, lorwyn, the set with very little removal, in a plane where is always sunny ans everyone is happy, to contrast with shadowmoor where misery and torture is the status quo

[@searchyourlibrary]

Lorwyn’s really close! I actually think that was one of the first sets with a mostly peaceful vibe. The exception is that the elves there are racist and cruel.

[@DonPedroTheDude]

I disagree that you established the game is violent. It contains art and mechanics that simulates violence. The act of playing cannot by itself cause harm, so it does not share this with indisputable violent acts.

[@devanradford6108]

This is such an interesting topic to think about. I like the cube format and the idea of building a non-violent cube would be really challenging. The base of magic is it's combat system, and trying to remove combat from a cube would be difficult. Thwre would also be little to no creature removal or burn (except maybe removal that's flavored around them being sent elsewhere like exiling and bouce spells). I'd probably allow for violent art because that might make the cube significantly harder to build. Or maybe I would try and have only violent implying art in a cube that aspires to have no other violent implications.

[@searchyourlibrary]

Cube is always such a fascinating format and I would absolutely play that. I feel like you’d be able to do it with a number of the alt wins and enough really 0 power creatures. A lot of them are walls so it’d even feel like building!

[@freddyghost3807]

Great video!

[@beanme100]

Yoooooooo I'm 60 seconds into this video and the editing and writing is already dope. Easy sub.

[@1ogic948]

Interesting video! Ultimately, if you want the flavor of magic to resonate with its mechanics, you're going to have to have, if not violence, conflict, because magic is a zero-sum game that's most fun when you get to interact with your opponent. Physical battle is a really good metaphor for that, and it's pretty baked into magic by now. In an article on making universe beyond sets, Mark Rosewater explicitly states that part of choosing settings that would work with magic is being able to justify having combat, different kinds of removal spells, etc. I do think that consciously experimenting with this premise can lead to some great ideas though. If you go full Super 3D Noah's Ark it will probably feel forced or detached, but from time to time you could still have Lorwyn's slapstick tone, or Battlebond's "canonically no one dies, please just enjoy the shonen tournament arc." But even without committing to the bit for an entire set, individual cards like Path to Exile and Farewell can be fantastic additions that stand in contrast to more straight forward interpretations of "removal spell" and "board wipe", and those cards feel right at home in magic! Actually, that's got me thinking about the point you made about the art being the moment before the harm. There's a reason that regular people in superhero media somehow survive being caught in mid air from a 30-story drop. It's because unless the writer is actively trying to explore those ramifications, its just a massive bummer that's irrelevant to the narrative we actually care about. In the same way, the joy of casting lightning bolt isn't imagining inflicting harm on people, it's the impact on the game that makes you feel powerful, like you would if you really did have fantastical abilities, as you take a moment to be in awe of the artwork. -After all if you actually wanted to cause pain to real human beings you'd just play lantern control.-

[@darthparallax5207]

War was declared when they made Ancestral Recall a rare "just so people don't have it". That war never stopped.

[@itheruler2157]

In this context i find it interesting, that the announced racing set is not just a race but a DEATH race. Maybe that would have been an opportunity for a non violent theme / set.

[@DuskyPredator]

Commander being an expressive format has had me think how I could express my enjoyment of less violent things like certain games. Looking for some mechanics and a wincon that would lessen aspects of the violence.

[@bog6106]

I am firm believer in the heart of the cards! The power of suggestion is basically lying while lying to yourself about lying

[@Nurriek]

No. Because to claim that it is is to conflate the depiction or simulation of violence with violence, without distinction. What it is, is competitive.

[@evilontoast7266]

Hey amazing video and earned a sub! Hopefully we will see you among the greats like Rhystic Study and Spice 8 Rack! (Side note the music at around 7:04 drowns out your voice, making it hard to hear you)

[@catoticneutral]

Since when is "portrayal of harm" defined as violence?

[@searchyourlibrary]

It’s sort of short-hand, but it’s fairly commonplace. People say “violence in media” or “that movie is violent” all the time.

[@Minisauro]

It’s a matter of approach, you can play without giving damage, you can even constantly draw games if you want. Cards like divine intervention, decks like the old turbo fog. The options exist.

[@thekopekemaster]

7:49 "Because it's so much fun, JAN!"

[@searchyourlibrary]

In retrospect, not having ANY Tarantino references in this was a mistake and I owe the culture an apology.

[@tratanlightbreaker6029]

In Yugioh anime there was a character named Raphael, whose gimmick was, that he was very strongly attached to the monsters in his deck, to the point where he would try to keep them out of the graveyard at all cost. It honestly seems like an interesting concept that could be be explored in MtG, and I really think like it should. Something I noticed in myself, is that Magic feels very.... bleak? I guess that would be the word. Basically no matter what plane we are going to, everywhere everything just sucks, everything wants to kill you, and it's honestly a miracle humanity has not yet become extinct on some of these worlds. Death just doesn't feels very impactful. I don't mind the violence, but i think it would be interesting if Magic tried to create a Pacifistic set, or at least a pacifistic way to win the game, like a remixed poison.

[@valutaatoaofunknownelement197]

Yugioh Player here: You're close to why Raphael was so attached to his monsters. The Guardian archetype basically were his spiritual mentors and family after his actual family died in am accident in the ocean, or forgot about him in the dub, both possible origins occuring after he was lost at sea.

[@tratanlightbreaker6029]

@@valutaatoaofunknownelement197 I know. But the context isn't really relevant nor needed here. My point was just, that MtG should try make a Pacifistic set/win con.

[@valutaatoaofunknownelement197]

@@tratanlightbreaker6029 Sorry about that. But maybe on the topic of known YGO alt win cons, could a Final Countdown style card work in MTG? Provided there's a stronger handicap or catch to using it that's more than paying a quarter of your starting life?

[@tratanlightbreaker6029]

@@valutaatoaofunknownelement197 No worry. I was thinking more akin to poison thou - as the wincon being build into MtG rules. Effect based win condition simply are way to narrow. I would say Approach of the Second Sun is quite good equivalent of Final countdown, and if we were to change the top part of the card, it could even fit the idea of pacifistic win con. But that would be it. No real way of improving it afterwards, no real way of returning to it in the future, and thebdeck would most likely just become a meme pile of junk.

[@The_Dying_Rose]

​@@tratanlightbreaker6029 helix pinnacle, simic ascendancy and felidar sovereign are all pacifist win cons. Simic ascendancy does utiliize +1/+1 counters, but you have no need to attack. It gets a counter on it each time a +1/+1 counter, and once it has 20 or more counters you win. Felidar Sovereign requires you to have 40 or more life and you win from that. And Helix Pinnacle has a bunch of druids gathering some sort of energy or something. You can pay X to add an equal amount of tower counters on it, and once it has 100 or more counters you win the game.

[@mullac0107]

Really cool topic, I liked your approach!

[@S986S]

I feel uncomfertable explaining certain things related to magic.

[@Malibooyahhh]

I too am uncomfartable

[@kristadisgumundsdottir3658]

Even though there is plenty of violence in MtG, I am drawn to the game mechanics, social interactions and the artwork.

[@hal9733]

No it's not. 1 sheoldred, the apocalypse later: yes it is

[@The_Dying_Rose]

I just like dark fantasy stuff, and would really appreciate it if mtg went back to being a darker, more violent game. My favorite deck is a jund slimefoot and squee sacrifice/self mill deck, quite fast and fun. As for making people violent, i dont believe it does that at all. Just has violent art sometimes as well as themes, and I see nothing wrong with that. Our own history is very bloody, and seeing as fantasy draws from said history it only makes sense for it to be that way. I dont want to make this sound like i want nothing except Berserk stuff in mtg, i do enjoy lighter hearted sets and believe that they definitely have their place, but i dont see violence as a problem and prefer the dark fantasy genre. I hope that made sense, its way too late and i need some sleep so hopefully that was worded right

[@poenpotzu2865]

This is just my 2 cents but i think games like sports could be viewed as stress relievers. It is a more healthy outlet for our more agrresive and competitive traits.

[@joshuahowell4785]

It's interesting how the different portrayals of violence in media affect different people. I'm not a fan of violent movies, TV shows, and video games. I don't like superhero movies because all I can think about is the collateral damage and possible/implied death of innocents. However, black is my favorite color in Magic. I can indulge in morbid curiosity at a safe distance. My favorite commander deck (Yawgmoth) has many horrifying implications (some of which was very intentional, like using the Urza's Saga art for Dark Ritual instead of something that looks less brutal). Meanwhile, a friend of mine has little issue with violence in movies, shows, and games. However, the part of magic she doesn't like is that you attack the player, as that feels mean to her.

[@frankthetank520]

Had to stop playing with a friend who was a sodium miner. He would get mad every game (what's hilarious is targeting opponents stuff is a literal mechanic. Commiting a crime lol) cause that's how he acted. He eventually even threatened to fight us. "I'm the one who works out" lol how many bench presses until your a cage fighter

[@noBody-ue6cs]

11:10 I disagree with the assumptikn rhat women arw less vuolent becauae we socialize them to be less violent. If they were just as violent as men, it woulnt play out well for them versus men.

[@evan7721]

thank you for giving collected, concise language to this feeling im sure a lot of people have. I remember writing a paper my freshman year at uni about the pedagogical use of games (specifically DnD) and it gave me a new insight into said theme. I'm sure this video will do the same regarding the last bit you have: I've had some theories for a while now that the Satanic Panic of the 90s or the Joe Lieberman-esque overreaction to violent video games was in part a smokescreen for the 24-Hourization of our news cycle at the onset of Desert Storm and the new potential for constant flow of real life violent imagery "for free" directly to our televisions, served by "news media". Ive been curious to study the link between the rise of violence served via 24 hour news and real life violences such as Columbine

[@searchyourlibrary]

Thanks for the kind words! Wow, that’s a really deep topic of inquest, sounds like it’d be a whole HBO series haha. I think even without all these things being an intentional smokescreen there are probably some fascinating underlying corrrelates- like you said, the 24-hour news and the various levels of deregulation in the 1980s.

[@justanothergamer7918]

Play mono blue against my big stomp green deck and we shall see how violent this game can get

[@lucasmartelli4204]

Yes, Magic is psychic violence from its gameplay to its markets. It's what happens when the thrill of beating someone's ass in the real world is no longer worth the risk, thus you and your opponent(s) voluntarily enter a prison in which you use ideas imagined by other humans to kill them. Not only can you kill them once, but a match is held under the pretense you intend to kill them at least twice. You pay with time worked (which is unrefundable) to disgrace someone else's collection of cards similarly bought. Magic is murder of the best kind.

[@searchyourlibrary]

Damn

[@itheruler2157]

Hi. Nice video. You habe a new subscriber. Just a few days ago i talked about violent undertones in sports and games. Of course magic was also mentioned. In a few months a new tcg from france will come out. It’s theme and mechanic is that of a race/exploration. Maybe thats a better fit for your girlfriend.

[@itheruler2157]

The game is called altered

[@thekittenfreakify]

only the pricing

[@elephoontoftheshanpes8103]

Yes

[@annemariemakzerjal808]

Yes, it is violating my bank Account!

[@bizerra3422]

magic does not feel violent at all for me

[@boris_bulletdodger9109]

Positive comment

[@searchyourlibrary]

Grateful response!

[@atalhlla]

I was with you until you flashed on screen just what gore you were talking about. EDIT: I think it was much more violent back when, according to the lore, planeswalkers (which all player are) literally pulled creatures and artifacts through the Blind Eternities to enact their bidding, as opposed to now where (most) planeswalkers pull echoes of creatures and whatnot into existence. Writing that out, that seems more tangential to what you put forth in this video, so maybe a better response is that I don’t think it’s truly violent until someone’s eating their opponent’s foil Jace. Otherwise it’s just a game. CoD and Stellaris are just as bad if not worse from a depicted violence perspective. Okay that’s enough arm-chairing from me.

[@searchyourlibrary]

Wow, hadn’t known that. I started around the original Kamigawa and as far as I remembered they were always echoes. Although I suppose that gets into a whole different philosophical debate around whether hurting an echoes of a living thing is still violence. Did… did someone ever eat their players foil Jace?!

[@johanandersson8252]

Its aggressivly costed

[@mfdoom1898]

No, YOU'RE violent 😂

[@PaulissVegan]

Did the world become soft? Yes. That's why this video exists.

[@PensFan96]

All media, can only nudge a person in a particular direction that they already have a predisposition to. That nudge can be more or less depending on other factors. If you look into subliminal messaging in media and advertising you'll find that someone can usually only be prompted to drink more fluids if they are already somewhat thirsty. I would venture to say that games are the same way. HOWEVER I do believe there is an argument for someone who is already angry/frustrated from outside factors to seek out violent content for catharsis which will then in turn nudge them toward more violent content and so on which COULD then nudge them towards committing some criminal/violent act. Artwork in Magic is for the most part a subliminal message as nobody is ever analyzing what is being depicted on their cards while they are playing. A cigarette won't kill you, but the cancer from it will.

[@VultureXV]

That's the problem, it's not violent enough and card art is getting boring because of it. Bring back old Magic card art, you cowards.

[@searchyourlibrary]

Wow, that’s a really interesting question to think about (“has Magic gotten more violent over time?”). It’d need a whole new video haha. Off the top of my head, I feel like there are still a couple violent cards per set (like Kaervek in OTJ) but overall the art style is also brighter and more CG. There’s got to be a cool psychological reason the older art styles look more painful.

[@joelowdon1615]

@@searchyourlibrary there's also the body horror Phyrexian sets, wars that span multiple sets and Warhammer 40k cards. Plenty of recent strong depictions of violence. I don't think it's gotten particularly more violent over time but the graphic/violent content ebbs and flows

[@Grogeous_Maximus]

Asked no one, ever

[@MsNosis]

If I had the power to change the design of MtG, I would no doubt make win conditions and gameplay FAR less focused on combat. What if instead beating your opponent to 0 life one won the game by becoming the first to earn 20 "glory" (or something), which could be earned by having monsters fight for sure, but also by for example by building monuments, trading, inventing, and so on. Imagine only a few creatures actually having power and toughness for fighting, while most had stats instead for for example making music, trading, building houses, building alliances with animals and other tribes, making herbal medicine and so on. I think Mtg is really limited in design by it's focus on combat, with virtually every single set focused on some kind of conflict or battle.

[@searchyourlibrary]

Wait, that game sounds like a ton of fun, would absolutely play it. I feel like a good part of commander’s popularity is that it’s less combat focused, and more about building your own value engines, so I feel like there’s definitely an audience!

[@pictureswithoutyou8563]

Would lead to not interactive game, horrible

[@isvvc_]

You might like Lorcana

[@ich3730]

Thats literally just lorcana lol.

[@MsNosis]

@@pictureswithoutyou8563 only if you think combat and battle is the only way to interact with other people...

[@kaueleao9957]

Its violently boring

[@koboldgeorge2140]

Based commnter

[@poesero]

Nah

[@ildlyn8966]

soy